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going all-electric
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John Larkin
May 5, 2021, 4:44:31 PM5/5/21
to
bitrex
May 5, 2021, 5:12:55 PM5/5/21
to
On 5/5/2021 4:44 PM, John Larkin wrote:
>
> https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/push-to-turn-off-gas-to-help-reach-state-s-climate-goal-20210504-p57oof.html
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_in_Australia
>
>
IDK what cards you have to play to push Australia's metrics in what
direction, this set of cards tend to at least earn you "Displeased" in
North America if not "Outraged" if you play them prior to 2035:
<https://www.mobygames.com/images/promo/original/83f44f73ef674571a1f1e8549df97474.jpg>
>
> https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/push-to-turn-off-gas-to-help-reach-state-s-climate-goal-20210504-p57oof.html
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_in_Australia
>
>
IDK what cards you have to play to push Australia's metrics in what
direction, this set of cards tend to at least earn you "Displeased" in
North America if not "Outraged" if you play them prior to 2035:
<https://www.mobygames.com/images/promo/original/83f44f73ef674571a1f1e8549df97474.jpg>
John Doe
May 5, 2021, 6:39:24 PM5/5/21
to
John Larkin wrote:
> https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/push-to-turn-off-gas-to-help-reach-state-s-climate-goal-20210504-p57oof.html
Going all electric is great. Just make sure there is energy to charge
> https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/push-to-turn-off-gas-to-help-reach-state-s-climate-goal-20210504-p57oof.html
your electric device with, like NUCLEAR.
Phil Allison
May 5, 2021, 7:29:43 PM5/5/21
to
John Larkin wrote:
==============
> https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/push-to-turn-off-gas-to-help-reach-state-s-climate-goal-20210504-p57oof.html
** You need some background to understand that news item:
In the 1960s, I was living in Victoria, a place that gets darn cold in winter.
Back then, there was a huge TV and news paper campaign to go "all electric" being pushed by the government electricity authority.
OTOH, gas produced from coal was supplied by private industry and so began to fall by the wayside.
Some liked gas while others did not, considering it " old fashioned " and smelly.
A popular heating option then was oil, delivered as a kerosene like liquid to homes at about 20 cents a litre.
Other folk used gas, wood and coal in the from of compressed bricks in slow combustion heaters.
In the 70s, "natural gas" came along, piped from a long distance away in another state.
It was heavily promoted, cheap and "clean".
As you can see from the table in the news item, it became extremely popular in Victoria ( a small state) which consumes 65% of all such usage in the country. No other place gets anywhere near.
It is almost entirely used for hot water and home heating.
As you can also see ( but journalists cannot) the cooking component is trivial.
Any plan now to make consumers to go " all electric" as in the 60s is pie in the sky nonsense.
Oil heating is not an option and home fires are banned.
The Victorian govt is currently extremely left wing and merely virtue signalling to win a few votes.
...... Phil
==============
> https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/push-to-turn-off-gas-to-help-reach-state-s-climate-goal-20210504-p57oof.html
** You need some background to understand that news item:
In the 1960s, I was living in Victoria, a place that gets darn cold in winter.
Back then, there was a huge TV and news paper campaign to go "all electric" being pushed by the government electricity authority.
OTOH, gas produced from coal was supplied by private industry and so began to fall by the wayside.
Some liked gas while others did not, considering it " old fashioned " and smelly.
A popular heating option then was oil, delivered as a kerosene like liquid to homes at about 20 cents a litre.
Other folk used gas, wood and coal in the from of compressed bricks in slow combustion heaters.
In the 70s, "natural gas" came along, piped from a long distance away in another state.
It was heavily promoted, cheap and "clean".
As you can see from the table in the news item, it became extremely popular in Victoria ( a small state) which consumes 65% of all such usage in the country. No other place gets anywhere near.
It is almost entirely used for hot water and home heating.
As you can also see ( but journalists cannot) the cooking component is trivial.
Any plan now to make consumers to go " all electric" as in the 60s is pie in the sky nonsense.
Oil heating is not an option and home fires are banned.
The Victorian govt is currently extremely left wing and merely virtue signalling to win a few votes.
...... Phil
Rick C
May 5, 2021, 9:31:19 PM5/5/21
to
We are still a long way to being able to eliminate fossil fuels by using renewables instead, but it is silly for people to dismiss the progress that has been achieved. Renewables are already cheaper by the kWh than pretty much any other viable energy source, but have a problem with availability. Methods of storing energy are becoming more effective and cost efficient and will continue to improve.
It takes an extreme lack of foresight to think we won't be able to cut our use of fossil fuels by huge percentages over the next 10 or 20 years. We won't need to mandate anything. The economics by themselves will make renewables the most cost effective energy source.
I expect in many cases, homes and businesses will be nearly 100% independent of the grid other than as a means of sharing the energy generated rather than relying on the grid as the source. I would expect the utilities to be concerned by this paradigm shift, except for the facts that it will not happen overnight and that they have much more input to government policy than citizens. So they will have plenty of time to shape the policy decisions going forward.
--
Rick C.
- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
It takes an extreme lack of foresight to think we won't be able to cut our use of fossil fuels by huge percentages over the next 10 or 20 years. We won't need to mandate anything. The economics by themselves will make renewables the most cost effective energy source.
I expect in many cases, homes and businesses will be nearly 100% independent of the grid other than as a means of sharing the energy generated rather than relying on the grid as the source. I would expect the utilities to be concerned by this paradigm shift, except for the facts that it will not happen overnight and that they have much more input to government policy than citizens. So they will have plenty of time to shape the policy decisions going forward.
--
Rick C.
- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Phil Allison
May 5, 2021, 10:07:33 PM5/5/21
to
gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
--------------------------------------------------
> We are still a long way to being able to eliminate fossil fuels by using renewables instead,
** You should have stopped right there.
Cos all he rest is fantasy bullshit & verbal masturbation.
Just like ALL your other narcissistic non-think.
..... Phil
--------------------------------------------------
> We are still a long way to being able to eliminate fossil fuels by using renewables instead,
Cos all he rest is fantasy bullshit & verbal masturbation.
Just like ALL your other narcissistic non-think.
..... Phil
Rick C
May 5, 2021, 10:12:38 PM5/5/21
to
Phil A. (we all know what the A stands for) is the epitome of what this group stands for.
--
Rick C.
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Bill Sloman
May 5, 2021, 11:41:08 PM5/5/21
to
On Thursday, May 6, 2021 at 9:29:43 AM UTC+10, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
> John Larkin wrote:
<snip>
> The Victorian govt is currently extremely left wing and merely virtue signalling to win a few votes.
The Australian State of Victoria has a Labor government. The Australian State of NSW currently has a Liberal government, as does the country as a whole. The states of Western Australia and Queensland have Labor Governments.
The Liberal party is more right wing than the Labor party, but the Labor isn't extremely left-wing, any more than the Liberal party is "extremely right-wing".
The Labour party doesn't get as much support from coal miners as the Liberal party does, so it is better placed to win votes from people with enough sense to be worried about climate change - Phil Allison isn't one of them. Adopting sensible policies may be "virtue signalling" but it does happen to be one incidental advantage of adopting policies which look like leading to better outcomes in the long term..
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
> John Larkin wrote:
<snip>
> The Victorian govt is currently extremely left wing and merely virtue signalling to win a few votes.
The Liberal party is more right wing than the Labor party, but the Labor isn't extremely left-wing, any more than the Liberal party is "extremely right-wing".
The Labour party doesn't get as much support from coal miners as the Liberal party does, so it is better placed to win votes from people with enough sense to be worried about climate change - Phil Allison isn't one of them. Adopting sensible policies may be "virtue signalling" but it does happen to be one incidental advantage of adopting policies which look like leading to better outcomes in the long term..
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Phil Allison
May 6, 2021, 2:47:48 AM5/6/21
to
Bill Slowman
==============
Your asinine, pontifications were all irrelevant.
As fucking usual.
...... Phil
==============
>
> > The Victorian govt is currently extremely left wing and merely virtue signalling to win a few votes.
** FFS read what I actually wrote, fuckwit.
> > The Victorian govt is currently extremely left wing and merely virtue signalling to win a few votes.
Your asinine, pontifications were all irrelevant.
As fucking usual.
...... Phil
Bill Sloman
May 6, 2021, 3:50:59 AM5/6/21
to
On Thursday, May 6, 2021 at 4:47:48 PM UTC+10, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
> Bill Slowman
> ==============
> >
> > > The Victorian govt is currently extremely left wing and merely virtue signalling to win a few votes.
>
> ** FFS read what I actually wrote, fuckwit.
I did. What makes you think that I didn't?
> Bill Slowman
> ==============
> >
> > > The Victorian govt is currently extremely left wing and merely virtue signalling to win a few votes.
>
> ** FFS read what I actually wrote, fuckwit.
> Your asinine, pontifications were all irrelevant.
> As fucking usual.
You do seem to be gullible right-wing twit in the John Larkin mould. Clearly you are influenced by a different bunch of right-wing lunatics - Australia has a different crew from the US, even if most of them also seem to work for some company or other in which Rupert Murdoch is influential - but the silly ideas are much the same.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Robert Latest
May 6, 2021, 4:31:36 AM5/6/21
to
Rick C wrote:
> We are still a long way to being able to eliminate fossil fuels by using
> renewables instead, but it is silly for people to dismiss the progress that
> has been achieved. Renewables are already cheaper by the kWh than pretty
> much any other viable energy source, but have a problem with availability.
> Methods of storing energy are becoming more effective and cost efficient and
> will continue to improve.
Does anybody understand what's going on in Phoenix/AZ, for instance? Last time
> We are still a long way to being able to eliminate fossil fuels by using
> renewables instead, but it is silly for people to dismiss the progress that
> has been achieved. Renewables are already cheaper by the kWh than pretty
> much any other viable energy source, but have a problem with availability.
> Methods of storing energy are becoming more effective and cost efficient and
> will continue to improve.
I visited I saw the desert sun blasting down on one-story plywood homes whose
inhabitants pay hundreds of dollars per month to keep the interior at 50°F all
day (even when they're not at home). Looks like all you need is a roof covered
in solar panels, no government regulation needed. Also barely any energy
storage as the A/C is needed when the sun shines the most. Why isn't it done?
Subsidies for fossil and nuclear skewing the market against solar?
--
robert
Rick C
May 6, 2021, 9:08:45 AM5/6/21
to
There is all manner of poor thinking. I don't think California should have mandated residential solar. I do think we can find ways to encourage more residential solar without mandates.
I suspect your example is a bit overstated as in hyperbole, but yes, many places are ideal for solar and yet don't use as much as they could do easily.
Maybe Elon will run for President in the next election and promise to put a Tesla solar roof on every house!
--
Rick C.
-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Ed Lee
May 6, 2021, 9:46:19 AM5/6/21
to
Rick C
May 6, 2021, 10:06:18 AM5/6/21
to
But the cost of generation at that facility does not determine the price of electricity in Las Vegas. Only 5% of the power generated at the dam is used in Nevada.
--
Rick C.
-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Bill Sloman
May 6, 2021, 10:20:49 AM5/6/21
to
On Friday, May 7, 2021 at 12:06:18 AM UTC+10, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, May 6, 2021 at 9:46:19 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
> > On Thursday, May 6, 2021 at 1:31:36 AM UTC-7, Robert Latest wrote:
> > > Rick C wrote:
> > > > We are still a long way to being able to eliminate fossil fuels by using
> > > > renewables instead, but it is silly for people to dismiss the progress that
> > > > has been achieved. Renewables are already cheaper by the kWh than pretty
> > > > much any other viable energy source, but have a problem with availability.
> > > > Methods of storing energy are becoming more effective and cost efficient and
> > > > will continue to improve.
> > > Does anybody understand what's going on in Phoenix/AZ, for instance? Last time
> > > I visited I saw the desert sun blasting down on one-story plywood homes whose
> > > inhabitants pay hundreds of dollars per month to keep the interior at 50°F all
> > > day (even when they're not at home). Looks like all you need is a roof covered
> > > in solar panels, no government regulation needed. Also barely any energy
> > > storage as the A/C is needed when the sun shines the most. Why isn't it done?
> > > Subsidies for fossil and nuclear skewing the market against solar?
> > Same for Vegas, lighting up the strip all night even when nobody is around. Because electricity is almost free there. I think it's around 10c/kwhr for NV and 8c/kwhr for AZ retail, but practically free (perhaps 2c to 3c) to generate. Don't forget the hoover dam making electron for NV, AZ and CA for decades.
> I just read there is a plan being proposed to turn the power plant into hydroelectric storage for solar. Seems the generators only run at 20% of capacity because of issues with releasing too much water downstream. I'm not clear on how a higher generation rate would then be accomplished without impacting that.
You put a second - low - dam just down-steam of the main dam, and pump water up out of that pool back into the volume behind the main dam when you want to store energy. As long as you keep on pumping the same water around the loop, nobody further down-stream is in the least interested in the how much water goes through the turbines.
> On Thursday, May 6, 2021 at 9:46:19 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
> > On Thursday, May 6, 2021 at 1:31:36 AM UTC-7, Robert Latest wrote:
> > > Rick C wrote:
> > > > We are still a long way to being able to eliminate fossil fuels by using
> > > > renewables instead, but it is silly for people to dismiss the progress that
> > > > has been achieved. Renewables are already cheaper by the kWh than pretty
> > > > much any other viable energy source, but have a problem with availability.
> > > > Methods of storing energy are becoming more effective and cost efficient and
> > > > will continue to improve.
> > > Does anybody understand what's going on in Phoenix/AZ, for instance? Last time
> > > I visited I saw the desert sun blasting down on one-story plywood homes whose
> > > inhabitants pay hundreds of dollars per month to keep the interior at 50°F all
> > > day (even when they're not at home). Looks like all you need is a roof covered
> > > in solar panels, no government regulation needed. Also barely any energy
> > > storage as the A/C is needed when the sun shines the most. Why isn't it done?
> > > Subsidies for fossil and nuclear skewing the market against solar?
> > Same for Vegas, lighting up the strip all night even when nobody is around. Because electricity is almost free there. I think it's around 10c/kwhr for NV and 8c/kwhr for AZ retail, but practically free (perhaps 2c to 3c) to generate. Don't forget the hoover dam making electron for NV, AZ and CA for decades.
> I just read there is a plan being proposed to turn the power plant into hydroelectric storage for solar. Seems the generators only run at 20% of capacity because of issues with releasing too much water downstream. I'm not clear on how a higher generation rate would then be accomplished without impacting that.
> But the cost of generation at that facility does not determine the price of electricity in Las Vegas. Only 5% of the power generated at the dam is used in Nevada.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Ed Lee
May 6, 2021, 10:23:47 AM5/6/21
to
On Thursday, May 6, 2021 at 7:06:18 AM UTC-7, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, May 6, 2021 at 9:46:19 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
> > On Thursday, May 6, 2021 at 1:31:36 AM UTC-7, Robert Latest wrote:
> > > Rick C wrote:
> > > > We are still a long way to being able to eliminate fossil fuels by using
> > > > renewables instead, but it is silly for people to dismiss the progress that
> > > > has been achieved. Renewables are already cheaper by the kWh than pretty
> > > > much any other viable energy source, but have a problem with availability.
> > > > Methods of storing energy are becoming more effective and cost efficient and
> > > > will continue to improve.
> > > Does anybody understand what's going on in Phoenix/AZ, for instance? Last time
> > > I visited I saw the desert sun blasting down on one-story plywood homes whose
> > > inhabitants pay hundreds of dollars per month to keep the interior at 50°F all
> > > day (even when they're not at home). Looks like all you need is a roof covered
> > > in solar panels, no government regulation needed. Also barely any energy
> > > storage as the A/C is needed when the sun shines the most. Why isn't it done?
> > > Subsidies for fossil and nuclear skewing the market against solar?
> > Same for Vegas, lighting up the strip all night even when nobody is around. Because electricity is almost free there. I think it's around 10c/kwhr for NV and 8c/kwhr for AZ retail, but practically free (perhaps 2c to 3c) to generate. Don't forget the hoover dam making electron for NV, AZ and CA for decades.
> I just read there is a plan being proposed to turn the power plant into hydroelectric storage for solar. Seems the generators only run at 20% of capacity because of issues with releasing too much water downstream. I'm not clear on how a higher generation rate would then be accomplished without impacting that.
Generating during the day and pumping back at night. They would need another mini-dam down stream.
> On Thursday, May 6, 2021 at 9:46:19 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
> > On Thursday, May 6, 2021 at 1:31:36 AM UTC-7, Robert Latest wrote:
> > > Rick C wrote:
> > > > We are still a long way to being able to eliminate fossil fuels by using
> > > > renewables instead, but it is silly for people to dismiss the progress that
> > > > has been achieved. Renewables are already cheaper by the kWh than pretty
> > > > much any other viable energy source, but have a problem with availability.
> > > > Methods of storing energy are becoming more effective and cost efficient and
> > > > will continue to improve.
> > > Does anybody understand what's going on in Phoenix/AZ, for instance? Last time
> > > I visited I saw the desert sun blasting down on one-story plywood homes whose
> > > inhabitants pay hundreds of dollars per month to keep the interior at 50°F all
> > > day (even when they're not at home). Looks like all you need is a roof covered
> > > in solar panels, no government regulation needed. Also barely any energy
> > > storage as the A/C is needed when the sun shines the most. Why isn't it done?
> > > Subsidies for fossil and nuclear skewing the market against solar?
> > Same for Vegas, lighting up the strip all night even when nobody is around. Because electricity is almost free there. I think it's around 10c/kwhr for NV and 8c/kwhr for AZ retail, but practically free (perhaps 2c to 3c) to generate. Don't forget the hoover dam making electron for NV, AZ and CA for decades.
> I just read there is a plan being proposed to turn the power plant into hydroelectric storage for solar. Seems the generators only run at 20% of capacity because of issues with releasing too much water downstream. I'm not clear on how a higher generation rate would then be accomplished without impacting that.
> But the cost of generation at that facility does not determine the price of electricity in Las Vegas. Only 5% of the power generated at the dam is used in Nevada.
Rick C
May 6, 2021, 10:32:37 AM5/6/21
to
On Thursday, May 6, 2021 at 10:20:49 AM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:
> On Friday, May 7, 2021 at 12:06:18 AM UTC+10, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, May 6, 2021 at 9:46:19 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
> > > On Thursday, May 6, 2021 at 1:31:36 AM UTC-7, Robert Latest wrote:
> > > > Rick C wrote:
> > > > > We are still a long way to being able to eliminate fossil fuels by using
> > > > > renewables instead, but it is silly for people to dismiss the progress that
> > > > > has been achieved. Renewables are already cheaper by the kWh than pretty
> > > > > much any other viable energy source, but have a problem with availability.
> > > > > Methods of storing energy are becoming more effective and cost efficient and
> > > > > will continue to improve.
> > > > Does anybody understand what's going on in Phoenix/AZ, for instance? Last time
> > > > I visited I saw the desert sun blasting down on one-story plywood homes whose
> > > > inhabitants pay hundreds of dollars per month to keep the interior at 50°F all
> > > > day (even when they're not at home). Looks like all you need is a roof covered
> > > > in solar panels, no government regulation needed. Also barely any energy
> > > > storage as the A/C is needed when the sun shines the most. Why isn't it done?
> > > > Subsidies for fossil and nuclear skewing the market against solar?
> > > Same for Vegas, lighting up the strip all night even when nobody is around. Because electricity is almost free there. I think it's around 10c/kwhr for NV and 8c/kwhr for AZ retail, but practically free (perhaps 2c to 3c) to generate. Don't forget the hoover dam making electron for NV, AZ and CA for decades.
> > I just read there is a plan being proposed to turn the power plant into hydroelectric storage for solar. Seems the generators only run at 20% of capacity because of issues with releasing too much water downstream. I'm not clear on how a higher generation rate would then be accomplished without impacting that.
> You put a second - low - dam just down-steam of the main dam, and pump water up out of that pool back into the volume behind the main dam when you want to store energy. As long as you keep on pumping the same water around the loop, nobody further down-stream is in the least interested in the how much water goes through the turbines.
That doesn't seem to be what they are planning. There is already another lake below Hoover dam and the water levels already fluctuate a lot. This is the reservoir they are planning to use. It's not like an infinite number of dams can be added to a river without displacing a lot of people.
> On Friday, May 7, 2021 at 12:06:18 AM UTC+10, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, May 6, 2021 at 9:46:19 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
> > > On Thursday, May 6, 2021 at 1:31:36 AM UTC-7, Robert Latest wrote:
> > > > Rick C wrote:
> > > > > We are still a long way to being able to eliminate fossil fuels by using
> > > > > renewables instead, but it is silly for people to dismiss the progress that
> > > > > has been achieved. Renewables are already cheaper by the kWh than pretty
> > > > > much any other viable energy source, but have a problem with availability.
> > > > > Methods of storing energy are becoming more effective and cost efficient and
> > > > > will continue to improve.
> > > > Does anybody understand what's going on in Phoenix/AZ, for instance? Last time
> > > > I visited I saw the desert sun blasting down on one-story plywood homes whose
> > > > inhabitants pay hundreds of dollars per month to keep the interior at 50°F all
> > > > day (even when they're not at home). Looks like all you need is a roof covered
> > > > in solar panels, no government regulation needed. Also barely any energy
> > > > storage as the A/C is needed when the sun shines the most. Why isn't it done?
> > > > Subsidies for fossil and nuclear skewing the market against solar?
> > > Same for Vegas, lighting up the strip all night even when nobody is around. Because electricity is almost free there. I think it's around 10c/kwhr for NV and 8c/kwhr for AZ retail, but practically free (perhaps 2c to 3c) to generate. Don't forget the hoover dam making electron for NV, AZ and CA for decades.
> > I just read there is a plan being proposed to turn the power plant into hydroelectric storage for solar. Seems the generators only run at 20% of capacity because of issues with releasing too much water downstream. I'm not clear on how a higher generation rate would then be accomplished without impacting that.
> You put a second - low - dam just down-steam of the main dam, and pump water up out of that pool back into the volume behind the main dam when you want to store energy. As long as you keep on pumping the same water around the loop, nobody further down-stream is in the least interested in the how much water goes through the turbines.
--
Rick C.
+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
bitrex
May 6, 2021, 10:34:44 AM5/6/21
to
Looking at Melbourne's average temperatures it looks about as cold as
Bermuda, like you could probably live outside in a tent there year-round
and not die. Average low in June is 8.2 degrees C, in New England people
would be wearing short sleeves if it were that warm in December
Rick C
May 6, 2021, 10:35:13 AM5/6/21
to
--
Rick C.
++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
bitrex
May 6, 2021, 10:37:42 AM5/6/21
to
bedroom studio that doesn't even have a gas stove in that town, though.
Ed Lee
May 6, 2021, 10:40:23 AM5/6/21
to
On Thursday, May 6, 2021 at 7:35:13 AM UTC-7, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, May 6, 2021 at 10:23:47 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
> > On Thursday, May 6, 2021 at 7:06:18 AM UTC-7, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > But the cost of generation at that facility does not determine the price of electricity in Las Vegas. Only 5% of the power generated at the dam is used in Nevada.
> > The allocation is probably based on population, so CA get the most. But it's still the main source of electricity for NV; so, around 10c for commercial and 8c for industrial. I knew someone was planning a crypto farm in NV, if they could get the industrial rate.
> You do this all the time. You start with one tiny fact and spin a web from your imagination. Nevada gets about two thirds of it's power from natural gas. Please stop making up facts to support your ill-conceived notions.
around 8 cents per kwhr industrial rate is a fact. Go look it up yourself.
> On Thursday, May 6, 2021 at 10:23:47 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
> > On Thursday, May 6, 2021 at 7:06:18 AM UTC-7, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > But the cost of generation at that facility does not determine the price of electricity in Las Vegas. Only 5% of the power generated at the dam is used in Nevada.
> > The allocation is probably based on population, so CA get the most. But it's still the main source of electricity for NV; so, around 10c for commercial and 8c for industrial. I knew someone was planning a crypto farm in NV, if they could get the industrial rate.
> You do this all the time. You start with one tiny fact and spin a web from your imagination. Nevada gets about two thirds of it's power from natural gas. Please stop making up facts to support your ill-conceived notions.
Rick C
May 6, 2021, 10:54:59 AM5/6/21
to
Hell, I pay $0.08/kWh for residential service, so that's no great rate.
--
Rick C.
--- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Message has been deleted
Bill Sloman
May 6, 2021, 10:51:30 PM5/6/21
to
On Friday, May 7, 2021 at 12:45:52 PM UTC+10, Bill Sloman wrote:
> Looking at Melbourne's average temperatures it looks about as cold as Bermuda, like you could probably live outside in a tent there year-round and not die. Average low in June is 8.2 degrees C, in New England people would be wearing short sleeves if it were that warm in December.
If there was a frost in Melbourne, there'd be a headline on the newspaper telling everybody that their tomato plants had just died.
My wife used to grow cherry tomatoes in Cambridge and Nijmegen, but they didn't get moved outside until summer was well established.
My father grew cherry tomatoes in Melbourne, and he hardly ever bothered to move them inside. The problems with climate change in Victoria are more about having to buy a more powerful air-conditioner to cope with the hot and humid days in summer. Today's air-condtioners can be reverse-cycled, so you can use the heat-pump to warm the interior of the house in winter. It's cheaper than burning gas, if the winters don't get too cold.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
If there was a frost in Melbourne, there'd be a headline on the newspaper telling everybody that their tomato plants had just died.
My wife used to grow cherry tomatoes in Cambridge and Nijmegen, but they didn't get moved outside until summer was well established.
My father grew cherry tomatoes in Melbourne, and he hardly ever bothered to move them inside. The problems with climate change in Victoria are more about having to buy a more powerful air-conditioner to cope with the hot and humid days in summer. Today's air-condtioners can be reverse-cycled, so you can use the heat-pump to warm the interior of the house in winter. It's cheaper than burning gas, if the winters don't get too cold.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Clifford Heath
May 7, 2021, 2:58:19 AM5/7/21
to
On 6/5/21 9:29 am, Phil Allison wrote:
> In the 70s, "natural gas" came along, piped from a long distance away in another state.
I think most of it comes from Bass Strait - just off Sale. That's under
> In the 70s, "natural gas" came along, piped from a long distance away in another state.
200km of pipeline, and not interstate. Is there another pipeline that
you know about?
I remember when our whole suburb had gasfitters changing jets in stoves
and furnaces in every house - and some spectacular flares from the stove
when the new gas came through the old jets, or vice versa (can't recall
which). No-one was sad to see the demise of the old coal gasometers.
> It was heavily promoted, cheap and "clean".
> As you can see from the table in the news item, it became extremely popular in Victoria ( a small state) which consumes 65% of all such usage in the country. No other place gets anywhere near.
> It is almost entirely used for hot water and home heating.
(which incidentally one of my sons is working on remediating at present).
I've had a tour of one of the Altona plants where they were reacting the
natural gas into butylene gas (I think) to make butyl rubber for car
tyres. A 15m reaction vessel at 400PSI and 400 degrees C, or
thereabouts. Either way it would have made an impressive fireball if it
failed. The vessel has a 15cm window up the top where you can look in.
The gas pipeline crosses Port Philip Bay from Mordialloc to Altona.
The Mobil refinery is there too, but I recently heard that it's shutting
down.
Clifford Heath
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com
May 7, 2021, 9:56:01 AM5/7/21
to
On Fri, 7 May 2021 16:58:11 +1000, Clifford Heath <no....@please.net>
wrote:
>On 6/5/21 9:29 am, Phil Allison wrote:
>> In the 70s, "natural gas" came along, piped from a long distance away in another state.
>
>I think most of it comes from Bass Strait - just off Sale. That's under
>200km of pipeline, and not interstate. Is there another pipeline that
>you know about?
>
>I remember when our whole suburb had gasfitters changing jets in stoves
>and furnaces in every house - and some spectacular flares from the stove
>when the new gas came through the old jets, or vice versa (can't recall
>which). No-one was sad to see the demise of the old coal gasometers.
Coal gas was mostly CO, which is why old british murder mysteries had
people killing people by running unlighted gas lamps in their houses,
or sticking their heads in ovens.
I guess a jet sized for CO would make a lot of flame with NG. When I
buy a propane gas bbq, I usually have to drill out the jets to get the
flame I need to really sear steaks. Everyone is so cautious these
days. Our new Bosch cooktop has dual (big and little) jets on the big
center burner, so it has a huge turndown ratio.
Crazies here (Berkeley, maybe SF soon) are outlawing gas connections
to new-construction homes and businesses. They want all-electric too,
merging nicely into unreliable renewables and marginally-sized and
poorly-maintained distribution.
There was a bumper sticker in Louisiana a while back
LET THE BASTARDS FREEZE IN THE DARK.
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
The best designs are necessarily accidental.
wrote:
>On 6/5/21 9:29 am, Phil Allison wrote:
>> In the 70s, "natural gas" came along, piped from a long distance away in another state.
>
>I think most of it comes from Bass Strait - just off Sale. That's under
>200km of pipeline, and not interstate. Is there another pipeline that
>you know about?
>
>I remember when our whole suburb had gasfitters changing jets in stoves
>and furnaces in every house - and some spectacular flares from the stove
>when the new gas came through the old jets, or vice versa (can't recall
>which). No-one was sad to see the demise of the old coal gasometers.
people killing people by running unlighted gas lamps in their houses,
or sticking their heads in ovens.
I guess a jet sized for CO would make a lot of flame with NG. When I
buy a propane gas bbq, I usually have to drill out the jets to get the
flame I need to really sear steaks. Everyone is so cautious these
days. Our new Bosch cooktop has dual (big and little) jets on the big
center burner, so it has a huge turndown ratio.
Crazies here (Berkeley, maybe SF soon) are outlawing gas connections
to new-construction homes and businesses. They want all-electric too,
merging nicely into unreliable renewables and marginally-sized and
poorly-maintained distribution.
There was a bumper sticker in Louisiana a while back
LET THE BASTARDS FREEZE IN THE DARK.
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
The best designs are necessarily accidental.
Clive Arthur
May 7, 2021, 10:15:13 AM5/7/21
to
On 07/05/2021 14:55, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> Coal gas was mostly CO, which is why old british murder mysteries had
> people killing people by running unlighted gas lamps in their houses,
> or sticking their heads in ovens.
It was about half H2, with 'only' about 10% CO. I would bubble it
> Coal gas was mostly CO, which is why old british murder mysteries had
> people killing people by running unlighted gas lamps in their houses,
> or sticking their heads in ovens.
through soapy water then release the bubbles to float up to the ceiling
where I'd ignite them.
Suicide by gas oven was often heard of, an aunt of mine did it.
--
Cheers
Clive
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com
May 7, 2021, 10:21:55 AM5/7/21
to
On Fri, 7 May 2021 15:15:00 +0100, Clive Arthur
<cl...@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
>On 07/05/2021 14:55, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>
>> Coal gas was mostly CO, which is why old british murder mysteries had
>> people killing people by running unlighted gas lamps in their houses,
>> or sticking their heads in ovens.
>
>It was about half H2, with 'only' about 10% CO. I would bubble it
>through soapy water then release the bubbles to float up to the ceiling
>where I'd ignite them.
OK, I could have researched that. The lethal level of CO in the air
<cl...@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
>On 07/05/2021 14:55, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>
>> Coal gas was mostly CO, which is why old british murder mysteries had
>> people killing people by running unlighted gas lamps in their houses,
>> or sticking their heads in ovens.
>
>It was about half H2, with 'only' about 10% CO. I would bubble it
>through soapy water then release the bubbles to float up to the ceiling
>where I'd ignite them.
starts around 200 PPM.
>
>Suicide by gas oven was often heard of, an aunt of mine did it.
Bill Sloman
May 7, 2021, 11:12:11 AM5/7/21
to
On Friday, May 7, 2021 at 11:56:01 PM UTC+10, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Fri, 7 May 2021 16:58:11 +1000, Clifford Heath <no....@please.net>
> wrote:
> >On 6/5/21 9:29 am, Phil Allison wrote:
<snip>
> On Fri, 7 May 2021 16:58:11 +1000, Clifford Heath <no....@please.net>
> wrote:
> >On 6/5/21 9:29 am, Phil Allison wrote:
> Crazies here (Berkeley, maybe SF soon) are outlawing gas connections to new-construction homes and businesses. They want all-electric too, merging nicely into unreliable renewables and marginally-sized and poorly-maintained distribution.
The system is going to have to invest enough in storage to handle the fact that sun doesn't shine at night, and wind speeds vary from time to time.
> There was a bumper sticker in Louisiana a while back
>
> LET THE BASTARDS FREEZE IN THE DARK.
The Australian state of Victoria did rely on natural gas a lot (which was piped in from gas fields in Bass Strait, which is a lot of it's southern coastline).
That didn't make it reliable . The gas all went through one processing plant, which blew up, killing two workers and injuring eight more in 1998..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esso_Longford_gas_explosion
My mother didn't have any gas for her central heating and hot water for a fortnight. She got by - she was eighty at the time, and my father had died just a year earlier, and she was still getting over that - but she wasn't pleased.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
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