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The secrets of eneloop batteries
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Jan Panteltje
Sep 22, 2012, 8:21:25 AM9/22/12
to
The secrets of Eneloop batteries
In 2010 I bought a lot of Eneloop batteries,
and these are in everything I use, AAA and AA.
These rechargable batteries are supposed to have very low self discharge,
say still 80% full after a year, come charged, and are cool for in digital camera,
as normal rechargables are always empty when you need them.
OK, some weeks ago, and I charge these with some Duracell charger,
one cause the LED on the charger to flash indicating 'bad battery'.
And indeed it would not even power my mp3 player.
I had spare, but last week the second and third caused the same problem.
So, I ordered new ones, but kept those 'defective' batteries.
Then yesterday, as I was very curious as to WHY those batteries 'failed',
and the new batteries came with a link to
http://www.Eneloop.info/Eneloop.html
I realized it could not have been too many charge-discharge cycles...
So what?
Put one on the voltmeter, no voltage ???
Well measured if it still did any short circuit current: 530 mA (AAA).
that made no sense, no voltage - no current says Ohm.
Tried the next one, exactly the same!
Found voltmeter lead in probe was lose...
Soldered it, 1.something volt, same current.
That makes about 2 Ohm Ri, and not 20 milli Ohm as Eneloop claims.
So they must then be simply EMPTY????
OK, put one on the lab supply, 80 mA for 16 hours, and voila, full again and working!
But I did notice I had, to get 80 mA into that AAA, set for 1.6V or higher charging voltage.
Studying the Eneloop datasheets (same site under pulldown menu),
shows indeed that charging voltage may be as high as 1.7V for cold environment, and 1.6 for room temperature.
The discharge voltage is normally higher than 1.2V, more like 1.28V for low loads.
What I think happened is that the Duracell charger refused to charge above 1.5V,
and that the cell, in spite of being empty, needed that much voltage.
Or maybe me shorting it for the short circuit current test changed something in the cell.
Anyways the things, with their higher output voltage than the normal 1.2V
make for much longer use in my camera.
But the claim that 'any' NiMH charger will charge them (>1000x) seems not correct.
I will monitor these supposedly defective batteries for a while for self discharge and
how long they last.
So far that seems pretty good (mp3 player running all day on one).
But battery chemistry will probably always be a bit of a mystery...
In 2010 I bought a lot of Eneloop batteries,
and these are in everything I use, AAA and AA.
These rechargable batteries are supposed to have very low self discharge,
say still 80% full after a year, come charged, and are cool for in digital camera,
as normal rechargables are always empty when you need them.
OK, some weeks ago, and I charge these with some Duracell charger,
one cause the LED on the charger to flash indicating 'bad battery'.
And indeed it would not even power my mp3 player.
I had spare, but last week the second and third caused the same problem.
So, I ordered new ones, but kept those 'defective' batteries.
Then yesterday, as I was very curious as to WHY those batteries 'failed',
and the new batteries came with a link to
http://www.Eneloop.info/Eneloop.html
I realized it could not have been too many charge-discharge cycles...
So what?
Put one on the voltmeter, no voltage ???
Well measured if it still did any short circuit current: 530 mA (AAA).
that made no sense, no voltage - no current says Ohm.
Tried the next one, exactly the same!
Found voltmeter lead in probe was lose...
Soldered it, 1.something volt, same current.
That makes about 2 Ohm Ri, and not 20 milli Ohm as Eneloop claims.
So they must then be simply EMPTY????
OK, put one on the lab supply, 80 mA for 16 hours, and voila, full again and working!
But I did notice I had, to get 80 mA into that AAA, set for 1.6V or higher charging voltage.
Studying the Eneloop datasheets (same site under pulldown menu),
shows indeed that charging voltage may be as high as 1.7V for cold environment, and 1.6 for room temperature.
The discharge voltage is normally higher than 1.2V, more like 1.28V for low loads.
What I think happened is that the Duracell charger refused to charge above 1.5V,
and that the cell, in spite of being empty, needed that much voltage.
Or maybe me shorting it for the short circuit current test changed something in the cell.
Anyways the things, with their higher output voltage than the normal 1.2V
make for much longer use in my camera.
But the claim that 'any' NiMH charger will charge them (>1000x) seems not correct.
I will monitor these supposedly defective batteries for a while for self discharge and
how long they last.
So far that seems pretty good (mp3 player running all day on one).
But battery chemistry will probably always be a bit of a mystery...
JERON...@terra.es
Sep 22, 2012, 11:51:30 AM9/22/12
to
Jan Panteltje wrote:
> The secrets of Eneloop batteries In 2010 I bought a lot of Eneloop batteries, and these are in everything I use, AAA and AA. These rechargable batteries are supposed to have very low self discharge, say still 80% full after a year, come charged, and are cool for in digital camera, as normal rechargables are always empty when you need them. OK, some weeks ago, and I charge these with some Duracell charger, one cause the LED on the charger to flash indicating 'bad battery'. And indeed it would not even power my mp3 player. I had spare, but last week the second and third caused the same problem. So, I ordered new ones, but kept those 'defective' batteries. Then yesterday, as I was very curious as to WHY those batteries 'failed', and the new batteries came with a link to http://www.Eneloop.info/Eneloop.html I realized it could not have been too many charge-discharge cycles... So what? Put one on the voltmeter, no voltage ??? Well measured if it still did any short circuit current: 530 mA (AAA). that made no sense, no voltage - no current says Ohm. Tried the next one, exactly the same! Found voltmeter lead in probe was lose... Soldered it, 1.something volt, same current. That makes about 2 Ohm Ri, and not 20 milli Ohm as Eneloop claims. So they must then be simply EMPTY???? OK, put one on the lab supply, 80 mA for 16 hours, and voila, full again and working! But I did notice I had, to get 80 mA into that AAA, set for 1.6V or higher charging voltage. Studying the Eneloop datasheets (same site under pulldown menu), shows indeed that charging voltage may be as high as 1.7V for cold environment, and 1.6 for room temperature. The discharge voltage is normally higher than 1.2V, more like 1.28V for low loads. What I think happened is that the Duracell charger refused to charge above 1.5V, and that the cell, in spite of being empty, needed that much voltage. Or maybe me shorting it for the short circuit current test changed something in the cell. Anyways the things, with their higher output voltage than the normal 1.2V make for much longer use in my camera. But the claim that 'any' NiMH charger will charge them (>1000x) seems not correct. I will monitor these supposedly defective batteries for a while for self discharge and how long they last. So far that seems pretty good (mp3 player running all day on one). But battery chemistry will probably always be a bit of a mystery...
I have had this problem with standard NiMH batteries and an automatic charger. It seems to do some tests on the battery and when they get old or are seldom used these tests start to fail even when the battery can still be charged and used.
> The secrets of Eneloop batteries In 2010 I bought a lot of Eneloop batteries, and these are in everything I use, AAA and AA. These rechargable batteries are supposed to have very low self discharge, say still 80% full after a year, come charged, and are cool for in digital camera, as normal rechargables are always empty when you need them. OK, some weeks ago, and I charge these with some Duracell charger, one cause the LED on the charger to flash indicating 'bad battery'. And indeed it would not even power my mp3 player. I had spare, but last week the second and third caused the same problem. So, I ordered new ones, but kept those 'defective' batteries. Then yesterday, as I was very curious as to WHY those batteries 'failed', and the new batteries came with a link to http://www.Eneloop.info/Eneloop.html I realized it could not have been too many charge-discharge cycles... So what? Put one on the voltmeter, no voltage ??? Well measured if it still did any short circuit current: 530 mA (AAA). that made no sense, no voltage - no current says Ohm. Tried the next one, exactly the same! Found voltmeter lead in probe was lose... Soldered it, 1.something volt, same current. That makes about 2 Ohm Ri, and not 20 milli Ohm as Eneloop claims. So they must then be simply EMPTY???? OK, put one on the lab supply, 80 mA for 16 hours, and voila, full again and working! But I did notice I had, to get 80 mA into that AAA, set for 1.6V or higher charging voltage. Studying the Eneloop datasheets (same site under pulldown menu), shows indeed that charging voltage may be as high as 1.7V for cold environment, and 1.6 for room temperature. The discharge voltage is normally higher than 1.2V, more like 1.28V for low loads. What I think happened is that the Duracell charger refused to charge above 1.5V, and that the cell, in spite of being empty, needed that much voltage. Or maybe me shorting it for the short circuit current test changed something in the cell. Anyways the things, with their higher output voltage than the normal 1.2V make for much longer use in my camera. But the claim that 'any' NiMH charger will charge them (>1000x) seems not correct. I will monitor these supposedly defective batteries for a while for self discharge and how long they last. So far that seems pretty good (mp3 player running all day on one). But battery chemistry will probably always be a bit of a mystery...
I think it measures battery internal resistance and if too high deems it as defective. I have another charger based on timer for these batteries. I have found if you charge a battery for a while in another charger or power supply then the automatic charger will accept the battery. Also if you let them sit for long time unused their internal resistance seems to rise even when there is charge left, and when put back to daily use their internal resistance lowers.
miso
Sep 22, 2012, 9:34:05 PM9/22/12
to
Sanyo sells or provides a charger for ENELOOPs. When they first hit the
market, you got a plastic case that held batteries, the charger, and
some adapters where you could put a AA cell in where a C or D cell
goes. Later they sold the batteries plus charger, but no plastic case.
Now they sell the charger and batteries separately.
I swear by ENELOOPs and use them everywhere. They are easily the best
rechargables I have ever used. I put them in alkaline packs for
transceivers (yes, I know, not kosher since the pack has no protector),
flashlights, etc.
For charger chips, the overvoltage limit is generally 2V per cell. I
suppose a manufacturer could get more aggressive if the charger didn't
have other safety circuitry.
This issue of using NiMH in place of alkalines has caused a few
manufacturers to put a resistor in series with the battery. I saw that
on my Petzl MYO headlamp.
I like ENELOOPs. They don't leak.
market, you got a plastic case that held batteries, the charger, and
some adapters where you could put a AA cell in where a C or D cell
goes. Later they sold the batteries plus charger, but no plastic case.
Now they sell the charger and batteries separately.
I swear by ENELOOPs and use them everywhere. They are easily the best
rechargables I have ever used. I put them in alkaline packs for
transceivers (yes, I know, not kosher since the pack has no protector),
flashlights, etc.
For charger chips, the overvoltage limit is generally 2V per cell. I
suppose a manufacturer could get more aggressive if the charger didn't
have other safety circuitry.
This issue of using NiMH in place of alkalines has caused a few
manufacturers to put a resistor in series with the battery. I saw that
on my Petzl MYO headlamp.
I like ENELOOPs. They don't leak.
hamilton
Sep 23, 2012, 1:09:55 AM9/23/12
to
On 9/22/2012 7:34 PM, miso wrote:
> Sanyo sells or provides a charger for ENELOOPs. When they first hit the
> market, you got a plastic case that held batteries, the charger, and
> some adapters where you could put a AA cell in where a C or D cell
> goes. Later they sold the batteries plus charger, but no plastic case.
> Now they sell the charger and batteries separately.
How should this be interpreted ??
> Sanyo sells or provides a charger for ENELOOPs. When they first hit the
> market, you got a plastic case that held batteries, the charger, and
> some adapters where you could put a AA cell in where a C or D cell
> goes. Later they sold the batteries plus charger, but no plastic case.
> Now they sell the charger and batteries separately.
If they were making money with these batteries and accessories they
would not have separated the package.
If they are making better money on the batteries alone, they would keep
the accessory package as a "starter kit".
What gives ??
Simply gouging the customer ??
hamilton
miso
Sep 23, 2012, 2:59:33 AM9/23/12
to
the initial sales with the expensive packaging and free charger. This is
common in all industries.
I never did the math, but the first version of a chip, assuming it even
could be sold from the first mask set, must cost a fortune. Even a lean
and mean organization can't pull off a chip design and run of wafers for
under a million today by the time you pay engineers, layout, buy
tooling, etc.
Cable news channels are classic business tales of dumping million after
million to build the business. CNN and FNC both lost money for their
first decade.
Glenn
Sep 23, 2012, 4:18:03 AM9/23/12
to
On 22/09/12 14.21, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> The secrets of Eneloop batteries
>
> In 2010 I bought a lot of Eneloop batteries,
> and these are in everything I use, AAA and AA.
...
> The secrets of Eneloop batteries
>
> In 2010 I bought a lot of Eneloop batteries,
> and these are in everything I use, AAA and AA.
> That makes about 2 Ohm Ri, and not 20 milli Ohm as Eneloop claims.
> So they must then be simply EMPTY????
...
> So they must then be simply EMPTY????
Hi Jan
The reason for the low voltage and high internal resistance it that your
battery equipment:
* discharge of one or more cells to a too low voltage (even reverse
voltage!)
* the batteries has different characteristics
To get more life and easier charging from 2+ cells of LSD-NiMH (or
LiFePO4) you need a accumulator controller with each accummulator
packet, that monitor each cell.
Battery management system:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_management_system
E.g. like this - but not for LSD-NiMH - only for Li-ion (not LiFePO4):
http://www.linear.com/product/LTC6801
http://www.linear.com/product/LTC6802-1
You could use a ultra low power microcontroller for BMS or stack fault
monitoring?
/Glenn
Jan Panteltje
Sep 23, 2012, 4:45:32 AM9/23/12
to
On a sunny day (Sun, 23 Sep 2012 10:18:03 +0200) it happened Glenn
<glen...@gmail.com> wrote in <505ec5bc$0$295$1472...@news.sunsite.dk>:
Looks like a nice chip,
but incorporating it in my Canon camera will be a challenge ;-)
I use the eneloops mainly for consumer stuff I have.
I ran some compare test this morning,
trying to get 160 mA charge current into a as 'defective' marked AAA
needs 1.9 V, while only 1.6 V owith a non defective AAA.
So it seems the observation that Ri is higher than normal is true.
My conclusion is that the high Ri defective onces can still be used in low
current applications like my mp3 player, but likely not in the camera (flash
draws a lot), and can only be charged from the lab supply.
From now on, (blaming the Duracell charger? but it works fine with Duracells)
I will charge all eneloops with the lab supply, it is fully programmable any ways,
I can even control it from a script on teh PC if need be.
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/pwr_pic/index.html
:-)
<glen...@gmail.com> wrote in <505ec5bc$0$295$1472...@news.sunsite.dk>:
but incorporating it in my Canon camera will be a challenge ;-)
I use the eneloops mainly for consumer stuff I have.
I ran some compare test this morning,
trying to get 160 mA charge current into a as 'defective' marked AAA
needs 1.9 V, while only 1.6 V owith a non defective AAA.
So it seems the observation that Ri is higher than normal is true.
My conclusion is that the high Ri defective onces can still be used in low
current applications like my mp3 player, but likely not in the camera (flash
draws a lot), and can only be charged from the lab supply.
From now on, (blaming the Duracell charger? but it works fine with Duracells)
I will charge all eneloops with the lab supply, it is fully programmable any ways,
I can even control it from a script on teh PC if need be.
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/pwr_pic/index.html
:-)
Michael A. Terrell
Sep 23, 2012, 3:11:01 PM9/23/12
to
miso wrote:
>
> Sanyo sells or provides a charger for ENELOOPs.
stopped using the Sanyo name early this year.
Jan Panteltje
Sep 23, 2012, 3:26:10 PM9/23/12
to
On a sunny day (Sun, 23 Sep 2012 15:11:01 -0400) it happened "Michael A.
Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in
<L-qdnSKu2JxTw8LN...@earthlink.com>:
They still use the Sanyo name, its on the eneloop website:
http://www.eneloop.info/eneloop.html
'eneloop is a SANYO product'
Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in
<L-qdnSKu2JxTw8LN...@earthlink.com>:
http://www.eneloop.info/eneloop.html
'eneloop is a SANYO product'
Michael A. Terrell
Sep 23, 2012, 3:56:10 PM9/23/12
to
exists.
Michael A. Terrell
Sep 23, 2012, 4:01:07 PM9/23/12
to
<http://www.avinteractive.com/news/36654/sanyo-name-to-cease-by-april-1-2012-panasonic-tells-parters>
Jan Panteltje
Sep 23, 2012, 4:13:40 PM9/23/12
to
On a sunny day (Sun, 23 Sep 2012 15:56:10 -0400) it happened "Michael A.
Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in
<evqdnUy2xOf_9MLN...@earthlink.com>:
Well, the eneloop batteries I just bought last week have SANYO written all over them :-)
Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in
<evqdnUy2xOf_9MLN...@earthlink.com>:
Jan Panteltje
Sep 23, 2012, 4:16:27 PM9/23/12
to
On a sunny day (Sun, 23 Sep 2012 16:01:07 -0400) it happened "Michael A.
Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in
<evqdnU62xOcW98LN...@earthlink.com>:
The date 'April 1' is a bit suspiciuos no?
Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in
<evqdnU62xOcW98LN...@earthlink.com>:
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
Sep 23, 2012, 5:31:30 PM9/23/12
to
On Sun, 23 Sep 2012 15:11:01 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>miso wrote:
>>
>> Sanyo sells or provides a charger for ENELOOPs.
>
>
> Sanyo no longer exists.
Correct.
<mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>miso wrote:
>>
>> Sanyo sells or provides a charger for ENELOOPs.
>
>
> Sanyo no longer exists.
>Panasonic bought them several years ago, and
>stopped using the Sanyo name early this year.
cousin.
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
Sep 23, 2012, 5:31:52 PM9/23/12
to
On Sun, 23 Sep 2012 20:16:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>On a sunny day (Sun, 23 Sep 2012 16:01:07 -0400) it happened "Michael A.
>Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in
><evqdnU62xOcW98LN...@earthlink.com>:
>
>>
>>"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:
>>>
>>> Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>> >
>>> > On a sunny day (Sun, 23 Sep 2012 15:11:01 -0400) it happened "Michael A.
>>> > Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in
>>> > <L-qdnSKu2JxTw8LN...@earthlink.com>:
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> > >miso wrote:
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Sanyo sells or provides a charger for ENELOOPs.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Sanyo no longer exists. Panasonic bought them several years ago, and
>>> > >stopped using the Sanyo name early this year.
>>> >
>>> > They still use the Sanyo name, its on the eneloop website:
>>> > http://www.eneloop.info/eneloop.html
>>> > 'eneloop is a SANYO product'
>>>
>>> So, they haven't updated the website. Big deal. Sanyo no longer
>>> exists.
>>
>>
>> Here is one of many news stories about the end of Sanyo:
>>
>><http://www.avinteractive.com/news/36654/sanyo-name-to-cease-by-april-1-2012-panasonic-tells-parters>
>
>The date 'April 1' is a bit suspiciuos no?
Idiot.
>On a sunny day (Sun, 23 Sep 2012 16:01:07 -0400) it happened "Michael A.
>Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in
><evqdnU62xOcW98LN...@earthlink.com>:
>
>>
>>"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:
>>>
>>> Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>> >
>>> > On a sunny day (Sun, 23 Sep 2012 15:11:01 -0400) it happened "Michael A.
>>> > Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in
>>> > <L-qdnSKu2JxTw8LN...@earthlink.com>:
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> > >miso wrote:
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Sanyo sells or provides a charger for ENELOOPs.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Sanyo no longer exists. Panasonic bought them several years ago, and
>>> > >stopped using the Sanyo name early this year.
>>> >
>>> > They still use the Sanyo name, its on the eneloop website:
>>> > http://www.eneloop.info/eneloop.html
>>> > 'eneloop is a SANYO product'
>>>
>>> So, they haven't updated the website. Big deal. Sanyo no longer
>>> exists.
>>
>>
>> Here is one of many news stories about the end of Sanyo:
>>
>><http://www.avinteractive.com/news/36654/sanyo-name-to-cease-by-april-1-2012-panasonic-tells-parters>
>
>The date 'April 1' is a bit suspiciuos no?
Gib Bogle
Sep 23, 2012, 5:38:37 PM9/23/12
to
going.
Michael A. Terrell
Sep 23, 2012, 6:25:08 PM9/23/12
to
Jan Panteltje wrote:
>
> On a sunny day (Sun, 23 Sep 2012 16:01:07 -0400) it happened "Michael A.
> Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in
> <evqdnU62xOcW98LN...@earthlink.com>:
>
> >
> >"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:
> >>
> >> Jan Panteltje wrote:
> >> >
> >> > On a sunny day (Sun, 23 Sep 2012 15:11:01 -0400) it happened "Michael A.
> >> > Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in
> >> > <L-qdnSKu2JxTw8LN...@earthlink.com>:
> >> >
> >> > >
> >> > >miso wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Sanyo sells or provides a charger for ENELOOPs.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Sanyo no longer exists. Panasonic bought them several years ago, and
> >> > >stopped using the Sanyo name early this year.
> >> >
> >> > They still use the Sanyo name, its on the eneloop website:
> >> > http://www.eneloop.info/eneloop.html
> >> > 'eneloop is a SANYO product'
> >>
> >> So, they haven't updated the website. Big deal. Sanyo no longer
> >> exists.
> >
> >
> > Here is one of many news stories about the end of Sanyo:
> >
> ><http://www.avinteractive.com/news/36654/sanyo-name-to-cease-by-april-1-2012-panasonic-tells-parters>
>
> The date 'April 1' is a bit suspiciuos no?
real business.
Michael A. Terrell
Sep 23, 2012, 6:25:44 PM9/23/12
to
Jan Panteltje wrote:
>
> On a sunny day (Sun, 23 Sep 2012 15:56:10 -0400) it happened "Michael A.
> Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in
> <evqdnUy2xOf_9MLN...@earthlink.com>:
>
> >
> >Jan Panteltje wrote:
> >>
> >> On a sunny day (Sun, 23 Sep 2012 15:11:01 -0400) it happened "Michael A.
> >> Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in
> >> <L-qdnSKu2JxTw8LN...@earthlink.com>:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >miso wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Sanyo sells or provides a charger for ENELOOPs.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Sanyo no longer exists. Panasonic bought them several years ago, and
> >> >stopped using the Sanyo name early this year.
> >>
> >> They still use the Sanyo name, its on the eneloop website:
> >> http://www.eneloop.info/eneloop.html
> >> 'eneloop is a SANYO product'
> >
> >
> > So, they haven't updated the website. Big deal. Sanyo no longer
> >exists.
>
> Well, the eneloop batteries I just bought last week have SANYO written all over them :-)
Michael A. Terrell
Sep 23, 2012, 6:26:30 PM9/23/12
to
Michael A. Terrell
Sep 23, 2012, 6:27:19 PM9/23/12
to
Gib Bogle
Sep 23, 2012, 7:39:29 PM9/23/12
to
Jan Panteltje
Sep 24, 2012, 3:31:58 AM9/24/12
to
On a sunny day (Sun, 23 Sep 2012 18:25:44 -0400) it happened "Michael A.
Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in
<u8idnSEE7uvsEcLN...@earthlink.com>:
>> Well, the eneloop batteries I just bought last week have SANYO written all over them :-)
>
>
> Old stock. Like Motorola ICs.
Possible, but this guy ships a lot, and very fast, he only does batteries, so.. and this is his main product.
Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in
<u8idnSEE7uvsEcLN...@earthlink.com>:
>> Well, the eneloop batteries I just bought last week have SANYO written all over them :-)
>
>
> Old stock. Like Motorola ICs.
Jan Panteltje
Sep 24, 2012, 3:35:27 AM9/24/12
to
On a sunny day (Sun, 23 Sep 2012 18:25:08 -0400) it happened "Michael A.
Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in
<u8idnSYE7uvREcLN...@earthlink.com>:
Oh I did, but it must have escaped your undivided attention tha that article is from September 2012,
refecting on some scribblings from 1012??? that as of April 1 2012 the name Sanyo is no more.
It clearly is here, so that article is worth as much as the webpage.
I am not saying Panasonic does not have plans, just that article's analysis is crap.
Reality, my batteries, their OWN website, proves you wrong on April one date.
Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in
<u8idnSYE7uvREcLN...@earthlink.com>:
refecting on some scribblings from 1012??? that as of April 1 2012 the name Sanyo is no more.
It clearly is here, so that article is worth as much as the webpage.
I am not saying Panasonic does not have plans, just that article's analysis is crap.
Reality, my batteries, their OWN website, proves you wrong on April one date.
Jan Panteltje
Sep 24, 2012, 3:36:09 AM9/24/12
to
On a sunny day (Sun, 23 Sep 2012 17:31:52 -0400) it happened
"k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" <k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in
<0uvu58ptrprg9nluv...@4ax.com>:
Oh my god, did she have a head ache again??
"k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" <k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in
<0uvu58ptrprg9nluv...@4ax.com>:
Jan Panteltje
Sep 24, 2012, 3:37:07 AM9/24/12
to
On a sunny day (Sun, 23 Sep 2012 18:27:19 -0400) it happened "Michael A.
Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in
<u8idnSME7utSEcLN...@earthlink.com>:
No, that was the US.
:-)
Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in
<u8idnSME7utSEcLN...@earthlink.com>:
:-)
dagmarg...@yahoo.com
Sep 24, 2012, 10:18:23 AM9/24/12
to
On Sep 22, 9:34 pm, miso <m...@sushi.com> wrote:
> Sanyo sells or provides a charger for ENELOOPs. When they first hit the
> market, you got a plastic case that held batteries, the charger, and
> some adapters where you could put a AA cell in where a C or D cell
> goes. Later they sold the batteries plus charger, but no plastic case.
> Now they sell the charger and batteries separately.
>
> I swear by ENELOOPs and use them everywhere. They are easily the best
> rechargables I have ever used. I put them in alkaline packs for
> transceivers (yes, I know, not kosher since the pack has no protector),
> flashlights, etc.
They're good. I've had equal experiences with RayOVac's "Hybrids".
> Sanyo sells or provides a charger for ENELOOPs. When they first hit the
> market, you got a plastic case that held batteries, the charger, and
> some adapters where you could put a AA cell in where a C or D cell
> goes. Later they sold the batteries plus charger, but no plastic case.
> Now they sell the charger and batteries separately.
>
> I swear by ENELOOPs and use them everywhere. They are easily the best
> rechargables I have ever used. I put them in alkaline packs for
> transceivers (yes, I know, not kosher since the pack has no protector),
> flashlights, etc.
Unfortunately it's a moving target--they keep changing the name. I
think they're calling 'em "Precharged" now, or "Platinum" or
something.
I *really* like the PowerGenix NiZn cells I have. They're fragile,
die if you let 'em run too low (be sure you buy them charged, or
they're ruined), but the higher terminal voltage works a lot better in
many devices. I don't expect nearly the advertised number of charge
cycles, but even 10 cycles more than pays for them.
--
Cheers,
James Arthur
Jan Panteltje
Sep 24, 2012, 11:34:02 AM9/24/12
to
On a sunny day (Mon, 24 Sep 2012 07:18:23 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
dagmarg...@yahoo.com wrote in
<ccf3cb01-ee35-453d...@v15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>:
>I *really* like the PowerGenix NiZn cells I have. They're fragile,
>die if you let 'em run too low (be sure you buy them charged, or
>they're ruined), but the higher terminal voltage works a lot better in
>many devices. I don't expect nearly the advertised number of charge
>cycles, but even 10 cycles more than pays for them.
>
>--
>Cheers,
>James Arthur
Hey, thank you, did not know about that.
Will probably get some, more capacity, more voltage, and even cheaper here than NiMH
The charger I will program myself :-)
http://www.powergenix.com/?q=nizn-charge-procedure
Do you have to change low charge cutoff voltage from 1.0 or 1.1 to 1.3 V?
dagmarg...@yahoo.com wrote in
<ccf3cb01-ee35-453d...@v15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>:
>I *really* like the PowerGenix NiZn cells I have. They're fragile,
>die if you let 'em run too low (be sure you buy them charged, or
>they're ruined), but the higher terminal voltage works a lot better in
>many devices. I don't expect nearly the advertised number of charge
>cycles, but even 10 cycles more than pays for them.
>
>--
>Cheers,
>James Arthur
Will probably get some, more capacity, more voltage, and even cheaper here than NiMH
The charger I will program myself :-)
http://www.powergenix.com/?q=nizn-charge-procedure
Do you have to change low charge cutoff voltage from 1.0 or 1.1 to 1.3 V?
Jan Panteltje
Sep 24, 2012, 11:37:09 AM9/24/12
to
On a sunny day (Mon, 24 Sep 2012 07:18:23 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
dagmarg...@yahoo.com wrote in
<ccf3cb01-ee35-453d...@v15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>:
dagmarg...@yahoo.com wrote in
<ccf3cb01-ee35-453d...@v15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>:
>I *really* like the PowerGenix NiZn cells I have. They're fragile,
>die if you let 'em run too low (be sure you buy them charged, or
>they're ruined), but the higher terminal voltage works a lot better in
>many devices. I don't expect nearly the advertised number of charge
>cycles, but even 10 cycles more than pays for them.
>
>--
>Cheers,
>James Arthur
>die if you let 'em run too low (be sure you buy them charged, or
>they're ruined), but the higher terminal voltage works a lot better in
>many devices. I don't expect nearly the advertised number of charge
>cycles, but even 10 cycles more than pays for them.
>
>--
>Cheers,
>James Arthur
Jan Panteltje
Sep 24, 2012, 1:38:57 PM9/24/12
to
On a sunny day (Mon, 24 Sep 2012 07:18:23 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
dagmarg...@yahoo.com wrote in
<ccf3cb01-ee35-453d...@v15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>:
dagmarg...@yahoo.com wrote in
<ccf3cb01-ee35-453d...@v15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>:
>I *really* like the PowerGenix NiZn cells I have. They're fragile,
>die if you let 'em run too low (be sure you buy them charged, or
>they're ruined), but the higher terminal voltage works a lot better in
>many devices. I don't expect nearly the advertised number of charge
>cycles, but even 10 cycles more than pays for them.
>
>--
>Cheers,
>James Arthur
Upon reading the datasheeets:
>die if you let 'em run too low (be sure you buy them charged, or
>they're ruined), but the higher terminal voltage works a lot better in
>many devices. I don't expect nearly the advertised number of charge
>cycles, but even 10 cycles more than pays for them.
>
>--
>Cheers,
>James Arthur
self discharge is to 60% in 28 days!
Capacity is a lot lower than NiMH too.
Eneloop is better than that in 5 YEARS.
So that is a no-no.
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
Sep 24, 2012, 2:03:18 PM9/24/12
to
miso
Sep 24, 2012, 5:26:09 PM9/24/12
to
The ENELOOP chargers have an odd flashing LED scheme to report on
charging. You can google to get the decoder ring. But I believe it has a
discharge before charge mode. I triggered it once. I suspect there is
some poing where Sanyo didn't want to just top off the battery and
believed a dischrage before charge would be more appropriate.
When it comes to rechargables, it is best to keep the batteries
associated for one device grouped together. That way it is most likely
that they will be discharged to the same amount.
Some of my devices have a programmable battery lower voltage limit.
Other have a program mode for alkaline or NiMH. It is best to not mix
and match those batteries with devices that don't protect the batteries,
since the devices with programmable cutoffs have probably treated the
batteries better.
I don't have any flashlights that aren't LED anymore. [Even modified the
old maglights for LED.] But a flashlight with a filament bulb will most
certainly overdischarge a second cell.
rickman
Sep 24, 2012, 8:29:17 PM9/24/12
to
charger and liked them so well I bought another, both at Costco. My
main problem is keeping track of all the batteries.
They have saved me buying any more disposable cells for the last four
years I believe. I guess I still use disposable cells in my clocks and
a couple of lights I use on the kayak. I even keep a set of four in my
kayak bag in case one of my powered units didn't get charged and I have
to swap them out. So far they have only been loaned to other paddlers
who's units with disposable cells have run out of juice. Keeping all my
units charged is a little work, but I never run out of power on the water.
Rick
Jan Panteltje
Sep 25, 2012, 4:03:05 AM9/25/12
to
On a sunny day (Mon, 24 Sep 2012 14:26:09 -0700) it happened miso
<mi...@sushi.com> wrote in <k3qj5f$h2s$1...@speranza.aioe.org>:
Thanks, yes that idea of doing some discharge may really help,
tried it last night,
Almost like those eneloops get used to low discharge current,
need to have a bit of a big one every now and then.
<mi...@sushi.com> wrote in <k3qj5f$h2s$1...@speranza.aioe.org>:
tried it last night,
Almost like those eneloops get used to low discharge current,
need to have a bit of a big one every now and then.
miso
Sep 25, 2012, 4:14:36 AM9/25/12
to
I don't know where ENELOOPS set the minimum voltage, but probably you
don't want to go lower than 1V to be on the safe side.
Battery charging algorithms have a lot of black magic. A person in the
lab could never test all these charging limits, at least as they relate
to battery lifetime, unless they are rapidly discharging the batteries.
I forget who had a patent on battery burping, (discharge periodically
while charging). Nobody licensed it because it was dubious at best
science. By the time it could be proved to be useful, the chemistry will
already have changed. (More patent nonsense IMHO.)
don't want to go lower than 1V to be on the safe side.
Battery charging algorithms have a lot of black magic. A person in the
lab could never test all these charging limits, at least as they relate
to battery lifetime, unless they are rapidly discharging the batteries.
I forget who had a patent on battery burping, (discharge periodically
while charging). Nobody licensed it because it was dubious at best
science. By the time it could be proved to be useful, the chemistry will
already have changed. (More patent nonsense IMHO.)
dagmarg...@yahoo.com
Sep 25, 2012, 7:27:39 AM9/25/12
to
On Sep 24, 1:38 pm, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On a sunny day (Mon, 24 Sep 2012 07:18:23 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
> dagmargoodb...@yahoo.com wrote in
> On a sunny day (Mon, 24 Sep 2012 07:18:23 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
> <ccf3cb01-ee35-453d-b1a4-c2266fff8...@v15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>:
>
> >I *really* like the PowerGenix NiZn cells I have. They're fragile,
> >die if you let 'em run too low (be sure you buy them charged, or
> >they're ruined), but the higher terminal voltage works a lot better in
> >many devices. I don't expect nearly the advertised number of charge
> >cycles, but even 10 cycles more than pays for them.
>
> >--
> >Cheers,
> >James Arthur
>
> Upon reading the datasheeets:
> self discharge is to 60% in 28 days!
> Capacity is a lot lower than NiMH too.
>
> Eneloop is better than that in 5 YEARS.
>
> So that is a no-no.
The actual self-discharge is a lot better, by my measurements. The
> >I *really* like the PowerGenix NiZn cells I have. They're fragile,
> >die if you let 'em run too low (be sure you buy them charged, or
> >they're ruined), but the higher terminal voltage works a lot better in
> >many devices. I don't expect nearly the advertised number of charge
> >cycles, but even 10 cycles more than pays for them.
>
> >--
> >Cheers,
> >James Arthur
>
> Upon reading the datasheeets:
> self discharge is to 60% in 28 days!
> Capacity is a lot lower than NiMH too.
>
> Eneloop is better than that in 5 YEARS.
>
> So that is a no-no.
main problem is, like LiIon, the cells die (go hi-z), seemingly if you
ever let them go too low.
These guys talk about some of the challenges (posts #1, #20):
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?281051-Overdischarge-of-NiZn-Cells
Post #20 says that zinc just won't ever work in a rechargeable, that
charge cycles quickly amplify infinitesimal defects.
The cell is nearly fully discharged at 1.4V, so yes, that gives you
fairly little low-battery warning in devices set for alkaline cells.
I like them in devices that don't work well on NiMH voltages. My
favorite camera reads "Battery Low" on freshly charged NiMH, and shuts
down long not long after. It barely works at all on expensive
alkalines, works great on NiZn.
LED flashlights with converters work better on the higher voltage, as
it greatly reduces the i^2*r loss in the battery connections &
circuit. (It's surprisingly difficult to get 1A @ 1.2V efficiently.)
One of my handiest lights uses a single AA, and works tremendously
better on 1.7v than 1.3v.
So, there are some limits, but compared to $0.25/ AA alkaline cells
(that don't work in the camera), these have provided excellent service
for two years so far, at a cost of $2/cell.
--
Cheers,
James Arthur
dagmarg...@yahoo.com
Sep 25, 2012, 7:30:49 AM9/25/12
to
slight reversal. Zero volts is fine.
--
Cheers,
James Arthur
Neon John
Sep 25, 2012, 9:43:00 AM9/25/12
to
>> Sanyo no longer exists. Panasonic bought them several years ago, and
>> stopped using the Sanyo name early this year.
are still branded Sanyo.
John
John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.fluxeon.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
Sep 25, 2012, 10:55:11 AM9/25/12
to
multi-cell batteries (or, obviously, multiple cells in a device). Guaranteeing
that no cell reverse charges leads to rules of thumb like "discharge only down
to 1V/cell". Of course, this is dependent on the number of cells in the
string.
Michael A. Terrell
Sep 25, 2012, 2:03:43 PM9/25/12
to
Neon John wrote:
>
> >> Sanyo no longer exists. Panasonic bought them several years ago, and
> >> stopped using the Sanyo name early this year.
>
> I bought a couple of packs of Eneloop XX batteries last week and they
> are still branded Sanyo.
labeling.
http://panasonic.net/energy/eneloop/
Michael A. Terrell
Sep 25, 2012, 2:06:32 PM9/25/12
to
equipment. It's amazing how fast they add up when you use old test
equipment. The built in chargers won't support NiMh.
Jan Panteltje
Sep 25, 2012, 3:50:44 PM9/25/12
to
On a sunny day (Tue, 25 Sep 2012 04:27:39 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
dagmarg...@yahoo.com wrote in
<30010042-8207-42ce...@n9g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>:
>On Sep 24, 1:38 pm, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Mon, 24 Sep 2012 07:18:23 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
>> dagmargoodb...@yahoo.com wrote in
>> <ccf3cb01-ee35-453d-b1a4-c2266fff8...@v15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>:
>>
>> >I *really* like the PowerGenix NiZn cells I have. They're fragile,
>> >die if you let 'em run too low (be sure you buy them charged, or
>> >they're ruined), but the higher terminal voltage works a lot better in
>> >many devices. I don't expect nearly the advertised number of charge
>> >cycles, but even 10 cycles more than pays for them.
>>
>> >--
>> >Cheers,
>> >James Arthur
>>
>> Upon reading the datasheeets:
>> self discharge is to 60% in 28 days!
>> Capacity is a lot lower than NiMH too.
>>
>> Eneloop is better than that in 5 YEARS.
>>
>> So that is a no-no.
>
>The actual self-discharge is a lot better, by my measurements. The
>main problem is, like LiIon, the cells die (go hi-z), seemingly if you
>ever let them go too low.
>
>These guys talk about some of the challenges (posts #1, #20):
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?281051-Overdischarge-o=
The eneloops have a slightly higher voltage too, and that makes my Canon camera a bit more 'ready to shoot'.
The thing that really had me thinking was that I found a site that sells NiZn, and it
did not mention mAh, but mWh.
At first glance I thought this was a printing error, but then, reading the datasheets,
found that is is deliberate.
The mAh is MUCH lower for an AA than for a similar recent NiMH, so they mention mWh,
as that is, with 1.6 V cell voltage, a bit more (but still lower than a NiMH).
But for the consumer, who looks at capacity, and is used to mAh,
and sees mWh, will he / she fall for the high number, or at least
not be turned off by the low number (that mAh would have had).
So is this fair practice?
Very difficult to say, as you COULD reason that NiZn will indeed last longer before dropping to 1.1 or 1.0 V
where niMH equipment (I use 1.0 myself) switches off.
But then if that kills the battery what good is it?
So that is not right in my view, and other reason to not use them.
I like the idea of NiZn, simple, but they have some way to go before they become competitive it seems.
dagmarg...@yahoo.com wrote in
<30010042-8207-42ce...@n9g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>:
>On Sep 24, 1:38 pm, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Mon, 24 Sep 2012 07:18:23 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
>> dagmargoodb...@yahoo.com wrote in
>> <ccf3cb01-ee35-453d-b1a4-c2266fff8...@v15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>:
>>
>> >I *really* like the PowerGenix NiZn cells I have. They're fragile,
>> >die if you let 'em run too low (be sure you buy them charged, or
>> >they're ruined), but the higher terminal voltage works a lot better in
>> >many devices. I don't expect nearly the advertised number of charge
>> >cycles, but even 10 cycles more than pays for them.
>>
>> >--
>> >Cheers,
>> >James Arthur
>>
>> Upon reading the datasheeets:
>> self discharge is to 60% in 28 days!
>> Capacity is a lot lower than NiMH too.
>>
>> Eneloop is better than that in 5 YEARS.
>>
>> So that is a no-no.
>
>The actual self-discharge is a lot better, by my measurements. The
>main problem is, like LiIon, the cells die (go hi-z), seemingly if you
>ever let them go too low.
>
>These guys talk about some of the challenges (posts #1, #20):
>f-NiZn-Cells
>
>Post #20 says that zinc just won't ever work in a rechargeable, that
>charge cycles quickly amplify infinitesimal defects.
>
>The cell is nearly fully discharged at 1.4V, so yes, that gives you
>fairly little low-battery warning in devices set for alkaline cells.
>
>I like them in devices that don't work well on NiMH voltages. My
>favorite camera reads "Battery Low" on freshly charged NiMH, and shuts
>down long not long after. It barely works at all on expensive
>alkalines, works great on NiZn.
>
>LED flashlights with converters work better on the higher voltage, as
>it greatly reduces the i^2*r loss in the battery connections &
>circuit. (It's surprisingly difficult to get 1A @ 1.2V efficiently.)
>One of my handiest lights uses a single AA, and works tremendously
>better on 1.7v than 1.3v.
>
>So, there are some limits, but compared to $0.25/ AA alkaline cells
>(that don't work in the camera), these have provided excellent service
>for two years so far, at a cost of $2/cell.
Yes, I agree with most, some remarks:
>
>Post #20 says that zinc just won't ever work in a rechargeable, that
>charge cycles quickly amplify infinitesimal defects.
>
>The cell is nearly fully discharged at 1.4V, so yes, that gives you
>fairly little low-battery warning in devices set for alkaline cells.
>
>I like them in devices that don't work well on NiMH voltages. My
>favorite camera reads "Battery Low" on freshly charged NiMH, and shuts
>down long not long after. It barely works at all on expensive
>alkalines, works great on NiZn.
>
>LED flashlights with converters work better on the higher voltage, as
>it greatly reduces the i^2*r loss in the battery connections &
>circuit. (It's surprisingly difficult to get 1A @ 1.2V efficiently.)
>One of my handiest lights uses a single AA, and works tremendously
>better on 1.7v than 1.3v.
>
>So, there are some limits, but compared to $0.25/ AA alkaline cells
>(that don't work in the camera), these have provided excellent service
>for two years so far, at a cost of $2/cell.
The eneloops have a slightly higher voltage too, and that makes my Canon camera a bit more 'ready to shoot'.
The thing that really had me thinking was that I found a site that sells NiZn, and it
did not mention mAh, but mWh.
At first glance I thought this was a printing error, but then, reading the datasheets,
found that is is deliberate.
The mAh is MUCH lower for an AA than for a similar recent NiMH, so they mention mWh,
as that is, with 1.6 V cell voltage, a bit more (but still lower than a NiMH).
But for the consumer, who looks at capacity, and is used to mAh,
and sees mWh, will he / she fall for the high number, or at least
not be turned off by the low number (that mAh would have had).
So is this fair practice?
Very difficult to say, as you COULD reason that NiZn will indeed last longer before dropping to 1.1 or 1.0 V
where niMH equipment (I use 1.0 myself) switches off.
But then if that kills the battery what good is it?
So that is not right in my view, and other reason to not use them.
I like the idea of NiZn, simple, but they have some way to go before they become competitive it seems.
dagmarg...@yahoo.com
Sep 25, 2012, 8:07:06 PM9/25/12
to
On Sep 25, 3:50 pm, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On a sunny day (Tue, 25 Sep 2012 04:27:39 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
> dagmargoodb...@yahoo.com wrote in
> On a sunny day (Tue, 25 Sep 2012 04:27:39 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
> <30010042-8207-42ce-bae9-ecbaafc91...@n9g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Sep 24, 1:38 pm, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> On a sunny day (Mon, 24 Sep 2012 07:18:23 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
> >> dagmargoodb...@yahoo.com wrote in
> >> <ccf3cb01-ee35-453d-b1a4-c2266fff8...@v15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>:
>
> >> >I *really* like the PowerGenix NiZn cells I have. They're fragile,
> >> >die if you let 'em run too low (be sure you buy them charged, or
> >> >they're ruined), but the higher terminal voltage works a lot better in
> >> >many devices. I don't expect nearly the advertised number of charge
> >> >cycles, but even 10 cycles more than pays for them.
>
> >> >--
> >> >Cheers,
> >> >James Arthur
>
> >> Upon reading the datasheeets:
> >> self discharge is to 60% in 28 days!
> >> Capacity is a lot lower than NiMH too.
>
> >> Eneloop is better than that in 5 YEARS.
>
> >> So that is a no-no.
>
> >The actual self-discharge is a lot better, by my measurements. The
> >main problem is, like LiIon, the cells die (go hi-z), seemingly if you
> >ever let them go too low.
>
> >These guys talk about some of the challenges (posts #1, #20):
> > http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?281051-Overdischar...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Sep 24, 1:38 pm, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> On a sunny day (Mon, 24 Sep 2012 07:18:23 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
> >> dagmargoodb...@yahoo.com wrote in
> >> <ccf3cb01-ee35-453d-b1a4-c2266fff8...@v15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>:
>
> >> >I *really* like the PowerGenix NiZn cells I have. They're fragile,
> >> >die if you let 'em run too low (be sure you buy them charged, or
> >> >they're ruined), but the higher terminal voltage works a lot better in
> >> >many devices. I don't expect nearly the advertised number of charge
> >> >cycles, but even 10 cycles more than pays for them.
>
> >> >--
> >> >Cheers,
> >> >James Arthur
>
> >> Upon reading the datasheeets:
> >> self discharge is to 60% in 28 days!
> >> Capacity is a lot lower than NiMH too.
>
> >> Eneloop is better than that in 5 YEARS.
>
> >> So that is a no-no.
>
> >The actual self-discharge is a lot better, by my measurements. The
> >main problem is, like LiIon, the cells die (go hi-z), seemingly if you
> >ever let them go too low.
>
> >These guys talk about some of the challenges (posts #1, #20):
2,550 mWhr.
A typical low self-discharge NiMH is ~ 2,000mAhr x 1.25V = 2,500mWhr.
In my devices NiZn lasts a lot longer than NiMH because the switchers
are so much more efficient at the higher input voltage.
So, rating in mWHr seems very fair.
> I like the idea of NiZn, simple, but they have some way to go before they become competitive it seems.
refined/perfected over time.
--
Cheers,
James Arthur
Jan Panteltje
Sep 26, 2012, 4:15:15 AM9/26/12
to
On a sunny day (Tue, 25 Sep 2012 17:07:06 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
dagmarg...@yahoo.com wrote in
<c1dd7a84-0863-418c...@m9g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>:
>The NiZn cells deliver ~1,500mAh x 1.7V nominal discharge voltage =
>2,550 mWhr.
>A typical low self-discharge NiMH is ~ 2,000mAhr x 1.25V = 2,500mWhr.
>
>In my devices NiZn lasts a lot longer than NiMH because the switchers
>are so much more efficient at the higher input voltage.
>
>So, rating in mWHr seems very fair.
Hey, for the case where a SWITCHER is used, you are right.
But Mr consumer may put it in a flashlight,
and use it until it looks like a glowing nail....
Those wire type bulbs behave a bit like a current source too.
dagmarg...@yahoo.com wrote in
<c1dd7a84-0863-418c...@m9g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>:
>The NiZn cells deliver ~1,500mAh x 1.7V nominal discharge voltage =
>2,550 mWhr.
>A typical low self-discharge NiMH is ~ 2,000mAhr x 1.25V = 2,500mWhr.
>
>In my devices NiZn lasts a lot longer than NiMH because the switchers
>are so much more efficient at the higher input voltage.
>
>So, rating in mWHr seems very fair.
But Mr consumer may put it in a flashlight,
and use it until it looks like a glowing nail....
Those wire type bulbs behave a bit like a current source too.
dagmarg...@yahoo.com
Sep 26, 2012, 9:19:53 AM9/26/12
to
On Sep 26, 4:14 am, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On a sunny day (Tue, 25 Sep 2012 17:07:06 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
> dagmargoodb...@yahoo.com wrote in
> On a sunny day (Tue, 25 Sep 2012 17:07:06 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
> <c1dd7a84-0863-418c-bd74-f9653a239...@m9g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>:
>
> >The NiZn cells deliver ~1,500mAh x 1.7V nominal discharge voltage =
> >2,550 mWhr.
> >A typical low self-discharge NiMH is ~ 2,000mAhr x 1.25V = 2,500mWhr.
>
> >In my devices NiZn lasts a lot longer than NiMH because the switchers
> >are so much more efficient at the higher input voltage.
>
> >So, rating in mWHr seems very fair.
>
> Hey, for the case where a SWITCHER is used, you are right.
> But Mr consumer may put it in a flashlight,
> and use it until it looks like a glowing nail....
> Those wire type bulbs behave a bit like a current source too.
You mean fire-bottles? (Do people still have those?)
> >The NiZn cells deliver ~1,500mAh x 1.7V nominal discharge voltage =
> >2,550 mWhr.
> >A typical low self-discharge NiMH is ~ 2,000mAhr x 1.25V = 2,500mWhr.
>
> >In my devices NiZn lasts a lot longer than NiMH because the switchers
> >are so much more efficient at the higher input voltage.
>
> >So, rating in mWHr seems very fair.
>
> Hey, for the case where a SWITCHER is used, you are right.
> But Mr consumer may put it in a flashlight,
> and use it until it looks like a glowing nail....
> Those wire type bulbs behave a bit like a current source too.
The NiZn isn't gonna work in those. 1.8v isn't good for them!
--
Cheers,
James
Jan Panteltje
Sep 26, 2012, 9:41:33 AM9/26/12
to
On a sunny day (Wed, 26 Sep 2012 06:19:53 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
dagmarg...@yahoo.com wrote in
<3750cf9b-b0d9-496c...@x14g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>:
>You mean fire-bottles? (Do people still have those?)
Never heard that expression,
googling for it shows it can mean anything from Molotov cocktail
to fire-extinguisher..
http://quick.aero/sterling/blog/how-to-ship-apu-fire-bottles-as-non-explosives/
I actually have 2 flashlights with indescandent bulbs,
both run on 4 duracells,
in once you can select between LEDs and indescandent.
The duracells have been in once of those for more than 5 years I think.
The other one had a sealed lead acid rechargable that I killed by accidently
leaving that light on (I think), replaced it by 4 AA.
>
>The NiZn isn't gonna work in those. 1.8v isn't good for them!
Na, ya, bit more light :-)
>--
>Cheers,
>James
>
dagmarg...@yahoo.com wrote in
<3750cf9b-b0d9-496c...@x14g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>:
>You mean fire-bottles? (Do people still have those?)
googling for it shows it can mean anything from Molotov cocktail
to fire-extinguisher..
http://quick.aero/sterling/blog/how-to-ship-apu-fire-bottles-as-non-explosives/
I actually have 2 flashlights with indescandent bulbs,
both run on 4 duracells,
in once you can select between LEDs and indescandent.
The duracells have been in once of those for more than 5 years I think.
The other one had a sealed lead acid rechargable that I killed by accidently
leaving that light on (I think), replaced it by 4 AA.
>
>The NiZn isn't gonna work in those. 1.8v isn't good for them!
>--
>Cheers,
>James
>
Cydrome Leader
Sep 26, 2012, 6:56:05 PM9/26/12
to
miso <mi...@sushi.com> wrote:
>
> The ENELOOP chargers have an odd flashing LED scheme to report on
> charging. You can google to get the decoder ring. But I believe it has a
> discharge before charge mode. I triggered it once. I suspect there is
> some poing where Sanyo didn't want to just top off the battery and
> believed a dischrage before charge would be more appropriate.
do they even make an 8 port eneloop charger anymore?
>
> The ENELOOP chargers have an odd flashing LED scheme to report on
> charging. You can google to get the decoder ring. But I believe it has a
> discharge before charge mode. I triggered it once. I suspect there is
> some poing where Sanyo didn't want to just top off the battery and
> believed a dischrage before charge would be more appropriate.
here's one, not sure where it was sold or why it's not available in the US
http://www.thaicharger.com/sanyo-eneloop-universal-charger-nc-tgu01-12.jpg
I'd use the things if I could charge 8 at once in a charger that doesn't
smell like burning chinese electronics and won't kill the batteries or
burn the house down with some crazy speed charging mode.
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