politics, sorry, but this is great

[John Larkin]

https://amac.us/the-science-proves-it-conservatives-are-happier-than-liberals/

Conservatives are better engineers too.

--

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
Francis Bacon

[corvid]

On 1/14/22 14:55, John Larkin wrote:
>
> https://amac.us/the-science-proves-it-conservatives-are-happier-than-liberals/
>
> Conservatives are better engineers too.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-human-beast/201104/conservatives-big-fear-brain-study-finds

[John Larkin]

FMRI is about as useful as reading tea leaves, without getting a cup
of tea.

In my direct experience, lefties are a lot more neurotic and afraid
and unhappy with the world-as-it-is than libertarian types. That makes
sense.

Engineers need guts. We need to take risks, explore possibilities,
risk ridicule, ignore conventions and rules and peer pressures, misuse
parts, and test things to destruction, preferably with sparks and
smoke and loud noises.

[whit3rd]

On Friday, January 14, 2022 at 2:55:30 PM UTC-8, John Larkin wrote:
> https://amac.us/the-science-proves-it-conservatives-are-happier-than-liberals/

Oh, yeah, folk who congratulate themselves a lot, are sure happy about it.
Grinning idiots are happier yet, one supposes.

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Saturday, January 15, 2022 at 11:55:12 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 16:31:36 -0800, corvid <b...@ckb.ird> wrote:
>
> >On 1/14/22 14:55, John Larkin wrote:
> >>
> >> https://amac.us/the-science-proves-it-conservatives-are-happier-than-liberals/
> >>
> >> Conservatives are better engineers too.

Not that John Larkin understand engineering well enough to have a useful opinion on the subject.

> >https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-human-beast/201104/conservatives-big-fear-brain-study-finds>
>
> FMRI is about as useful as reading tea leaves, without getting a cup of tea.

In John Larkin's exert opinion. The professionals aren't that much more cheerful - it's takes a big and expensive machine, and the researchers with the political clout to get time on such a machine don't tend to spend enough time of thinking about what they are doing with it, but the psychologists who do it are learning a bit about what happens where in the brain (and when). It's finer-grained than waiting for somebody to have a stroke and seeing how their thinking falls to pieces on consequence, but not all that fine-grained.

> In my direct experience, lefties are a lot more neurotic and afraid
> and unhappy with the world-as-it-is than libertarian types. That makes
> sense.

Sure, Libertarian types are perfectly happy with the world exactly the way it is, and don't spend any time thinking about how it might be changed to work better.
Dumb as a rock and happy as a clam.

> Engineers need guts. We need to take risks, explore possibilities,
> risk ridicule, ignore conventions and rules and peer pressures, misuse
> parts, and test things to destruction, preferably with sparks and
> smoke and loud noises.

So do social engineers. The less risk-averse amongst them go in for revolutions, which do tend to test society to destruction, and generate lots of smoke and loud noises.

John Larkin lacks the wit to see society as a mechanism which can be tinkered with. The US Founding Fathers were more willing to think about changing it, but their successors were slow to embrace changes like universal education (when it became economically practical), still haven't embraced universal health care and still can't see the point of proportional representation, though most of Europe embraced it about a hundred years ago.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

[Phil Allison]

John Larkin wrote:
================

> https://amac.us/the-science-proves-it-conservatives-are-happier-than-liberals/
>
> Conservatives are better engineers too.
>

** Left wing "engineers" only write software code.


..... Phil

[jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com]

To paraphrase Mae West, a hardware man is good to find.



--

I yam what I yam - Popeye

[Anthony William Sloman]

Phil seems to think that I'm a left-wing engineer, and I wrote very little code once I'd completed my Ph.D.

He's probably going to claim that I'm not an engineer, but

Sloman, A.W. and Swords, M.D. "A fast and economical gated discriminator", Journal of Physics E: Scientific Instruments, 11, 521-524 (1978).

Ghiggino, K.P., Phillips, D., and Sloman, A.W. "Nanosecond pulse stretcher",Journal of Physics E: Scientific Instruments, 12, 686-687 (1979).

Sloman A.W., Buggs P., Molloy J., and Stewart D. “A microcontroller-based driver to stabilise the temperature of an optical stage to 1mK in the range 4C to 38C, using a Peltier heat pump and a thermistor sensor” Measurement Science and Technology, 7 1653-64 (1996)

all report hardware designed from scratch. He'll find some way to be rude about it, but that's just Phil.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Saturday, January 15, 2022 at 1:35:57 PM UTC+11, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 17:50:41 -0800 (PST), Phil Allison
> <palli...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >John Larkin wrote:
> >================
> >> https://amac.us/the-science-proves-it-conservatives-are-happier-than-liberals/
> >>
> >> Conservatives are better engineers too.
> >>
> >
> >** Left wing "engineers" only write software code.
>

> To paraphrase Mae West, a hardware man is good to find.

Finding one willing to flatter John Larkin must be difficult. Finding one willing to flatter John Larkin's hardware design skills would be even more difficult.

John Larkin can clearly evolve useful hardware designs by small incremental (and largely random) changes, but design seems to be beyond him. It is a useful skill, but I've had to clean up after people who worked that way and the products were never pretty.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

[Phil Allison]

IEEE Bill bill....@ieee.org wrote:
=========================

>
> > John Larkin wrote:
> > ================
> > > https://amac.us/the-science-proves-it-conservatives-are-happier-than-liberals/
> > >
> > > Conservatives are better engineers too.
> > >
> > ** Left wing "engineers" only write software code.
>
> Phil seems to think that I'm a left-wing engineer, and I wrote very little code once I'd completed my Ph.D.
>
> He's probably going to claim that I'm not an engineer,

** Correct.

You are an evil, narcissistic, slandering, bullshitting, lying POS cunt.






..... Phil

[jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com]

Gosh. Nobody's perfect.

[Phil Allison]

jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
==================================

>IEEE Bill bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> >=========================
> >>
> >> > John Larkin wrote:
> >> > ================
> >> > > https://amac.us/the-science-proves-it-conservatives-are-happier-than-liberals/
> >> > >
> >> > > Conservatives are better engineers too.
> >> > >
> >> > ** Left wing "engineers" only write software code.
> >>
> >> Phil seems to think that I'm a left-wing engineer, and I wrote very little code once I'd completed my Ph.D.
> >>
> >> He's probably going to claim that I'm not an engineer,
> >
> >** Correct.
> >
> > You are an evil, narcissistic, slandering, bullshitting, lying POS cunt.
> >
> >
> Gosh. Nobody's perfect.
>

** ROTFL !!



..... Phil

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Fri, 14 Jan 2022 14:55:19 -0800) it happened John Larkin
<jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
<6nv3ugto7ejcn4lsd...@4ax.com>:

https://www.rt.com/russia/545792-americans-could-flee-siberia/

[Rick C]

That applies to a few others here... I think I see some bullshit on your shirt. You might try using a napkin sometime.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

[Phil Allison]

gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
===========================

>palli...@gmail.com wrote:
> > IEEE Bill bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> > =========================
> > >
> > > > John Larkin wrote:
> > > > ================
> > > > > https://amac.us/the-science-proves-it-conservatives-are-happier-than-liberals/
> > > > >
> > > > > Conservatives are better engineers too.
> > > > >
> > > > ** Left wing "engineers" only write software code.
> > >
> > > Phil seems to think that I'm a left-wing engineer, and I wrote very little code once I'd completed my Ph.D.
> > >
> > > He's probably going to claim that I'm not an engineer,
> > ** Correct.
> >
> > You are an evil, narcissistic, slandering, bullshitting, lying POS cunt.
>
> That applies to a few others here...

** Yep - YOU !!

[Anthony William Sloman]

Wrong on all counts, but that's our Phil. His own psychopathic defects lead him to snip the evidence I presented that might have suggested to a more objective observer that I did have some engineering skills, but they'd probably have to know more than Phil does to get that impression. And he didn't bother to mark the snip.

This could be seen as immoral, but it's more likely to just reflect poor impulse control - he posted his reaction to what he'd managed to read and ignored the rest.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

[Anthony William Sloman]

Except possibly Phil and John Larkin, in their own ever-so-objective estimation.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

[David Brown]

On 14/01/2022 23:55, John Larkin wrote:
>
> https://amac.us/the-science-proves-it-conservatives-are-happier-than-liberals/
>

Ignorance is bliss?


Or is it really so surprising that a group dedicated to old
conservatives publishes an article saying something nice about old
conservatives?

> Conservatives are better engineers too.
>

The term "conservative" can mean a great many things. In the USA, it is
often associated with the kind of muppets who think the world was
created a few thousand years ago, global climate change is a Chinese
conspiracy, and that Trump won the election. People so disconnected
with reality are not going to make good engineers - or be good at
anything, really. (They might be happy, though that seems unlikely - it
is more realistic that they would /claim/ to be happy.)

It can also mean someone who is careful, frugal and prefers
tried-and-true solutions. That can be good for some engineering
challenges, bad for others.

If by "conservative" you just mean people who tend to be somewhat more
right-wing in their political outlook than average, but not extreme,
then I expect it to be totally and utterly irrelevant to engineering
ability.

[jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com]

But it's not. Socialists are literally more social than the average
person. Leftists believe in collective action to govern everybody.
They are more dogmatic, more tribal, more unhappy with the traditional
norms of human behavior. More afraid.

Libertarians are more like "OK, I understand the rules of the gain,
get out of my way and let me play to win."

Being social, tribal, means that one is hypersensitive to group
behavior and peer pressure. And afraid of rejection by peers. That
means, in engineering, doing everything by the book and being
inhibited against presenting radical ideas. I see this all the time.

"What do you care what other people think?"

Richard Feynman

Exactly.


Great book, "Who Really Cares:" by Brooks.

[John Doe]

NOBODY likes this troll's contentless spam.
After being spanked in the electronics repair group, it wants
to annoy everybody.

This nym-shifting stalker Corvid/Edward/others is upset because it will
never again troll USENET without its nyms being exposed...

=?UTF-8?Q?C=c3=b6rvid?= <b...@ckbirds.org>
=?UTF-8?B?8J+QriBDb3dzIGFyZSBOaWNlIPCfkK4=?= <ni...@cows.moo>
Banders <sn...@mailchute.com>
Covid-19 <alway...@message.header>
corvid <b...@ckb.ird>
Corvid <b...@ckbirds.net>
Corvid <b...@ckbirds.org>
Cows Are Nice <co...@nice.moo>
Cows are nice <m...@cows.org>
Cows are Nice <ni...@cows.moo>
dogs <do...@home.com>
Edward H. <dtga...@gmail.com>
Edward Hernandez <dtga...@gmail.com>
Great Pumpkin <pum...@patch.net>
Jose Curvo <jcu...@mymail.com>
Local Favorite <how2r...@palomar.info>
Peter Weiner <dtga...@gmail.com>
Sea <fres...@coast.org>
Standard Poodle <stan...@poodle.com>
triangles <bu...@home.com>
and others...

[Pomegranate Bastard]

On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 14:55:19 -0800, John Larkin
<jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

>
>https://amac.us/the-science-proves-it-conservatives-are-happier-than-liberals/
>
>Conservatives are better engineers too.

Right whingers are just scaredy-cats. Especially when it comes to AGW
denial.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-human-beast/201812/why-do-ever-fearful-conservatives-ignore-climate-threat

[jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com]

That's absurd. Discounting climate change, being optimistic about the
future, is the opposite of being scared.

Kids today are literally afraid of the world being destroyed by
climate change. "How dare you!" build what we have.

Some people don't want to bring children into a doomed world.
Excellent; we'll have some beneficial selective breeding.

Good engineering rule of thumb: don't be scared.

[bitrex]

Phil must be left-wing, he doesn't sound very happy.

[bitrex]

Mr. Larkin is scared of STDs though he's brought this up on a number of
occasions.

Meanwhile millions of conservative Evangelical blowhards have been
putting the fear of God into young adult about STDs for decades, and now
the same ones are all running around no vaccines no masks.

But definitely be scared of sex outside of marriage you're gonna die
from an STD that the average young adult who has sex outside of marriage
has about a ten thousand times less chance of dying from than Covid.

[bitrex]

Have to be able to experience the emotion of fear for courage to exist
in the first place; a person who claims they never experience fear isn't
a courageous person, they're simply a liar or fool, depending.

[bitrex]

On 1/15/2022 10:39 AM, David Brown wrote:
> On 14/01/2022 23:55, John Larkin wrote:
>>
>> https://amac.us/the-science-proves-it-conservatives-are-happier-than-liberals/
>>
>
> Ignorance is bliss?
>
>
> Or is it really so surprising that a group dedicated to old
> conservatives publishes an article saying something nice about old
> conservatives?
>
>
>> Conservatives are better engineers too.
>>
>
> The term "conservative" can mean a great many things. In the USA, it is
> often associated with the kind of muppets who think the world was
> created a few thousand years ago, global climate change is a Chinese
> conspiracy, and that Trump won the election. People so disconnected
> with reality are not going to make good engineers - or be good at
> anything, really. (They might be happy, though that seems unlikely - it
> is more realistic that they would /claim/ to be happy.)

Dishing out abuse seems to make USA conservatives happy and there's a
lot of different types of people to dish out abuse to, so if that's how
being "happier" is defined I could see how they're the happiest.

[Pomegranate Bastard]

On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 09:51:40 -0800, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com
wrote:

Perhaps you're just pretending to be a right whinger.

[bitrex]

I had to chuckle at the first statement. If you wanted to meet a real
socialist today IRL where would you go. The socialist social club?
DateASocialist.com?

Ok maybe in SF this is possible but SF isn't everywhere.

> Libertarians are more like "OK, I understand the rules of the gain,
> get out of my way and let me play to win."

I don't understand why conservatives have a problem with people
self-defining their gender identity, they let conservatives call
themselves libertarians all the time on the grounds that they should
have the liberty to do that...

[bitrex]

On 1/15/2022 10:57 AM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

Mostly not socialists that were freaking out all the restaurants and
hair salons were closed for a while.

[bitrex]

On 1/14/2022 8:24 PM, whit3rd wrote:

> On Friday, January 14, 2022 at 2:55:30 PM UTC-8, John Larkin wrote:
>> https://amac.us/the-science-proves-it-conservatives-are-happier-than-liberals/
>

> Oh, yeah, folk who congratulate themselves a lot, are sure happy about it.
> Grinning idiots are happier yet, one supposes.

America has all sorts of freedoms, too bad the conservative ideology
only lets you use like 2% of them.

Guess I can see why they're so pissed off if it seems like someone is
trying to take one of the few they're interested in actually using, like
the liberty to own unlimited guns, go to restaurants mask-free, and call
people gooks and queers and snowflakes on the internet without getting
"cancelled" (lol) seem like the main ones.

[bitrex]

On 1/15/2022 1:41 PM, bitrex wrote:
> On 1/14/2022 8:24 PM, whit3rd wrote:
>> On Friday, January 14, 2022 at 2:55:30 PM UTC-8, John Larkin wrote:
>>> https://amac.us/the-science-proves-it-conservatives-are-happier-than-liberals/
>>>
>>
>> Oh, yeah, folk who congratulate themselves a lot, are sure happy about
>> it.
>> Grinning idiots are happier yet, one supposes.
>
> America has all sorts of freedoms, too bad the conservative ideology
> only lets you use like 2% of them.

The rest of the time you have to do exactly what the policeman tells you
lest someone get the opinion you don't support police sufficiently.
That's bad.

[bitrex]

On 1/14/2022 7:55 PM, John Larkin wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 16:31:36 -0800, corvid <b...@ckb.ird> wrote:

>
>> On 1/14/22 14:55, John Larkin wrote:
>>>
>>> https://amac.us/the-science-proves-it-conservatives-are-happier-than-liberals/
>>>

>>> Conservatives are better engineers too.
>>

>> https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-human-beast/201104/conservatives-big-fear-brain-study-finds
>
> FMRI is about as useful as reading tea leaves, without getting a cup
> of tea.
>
> In my direct experience, lefties are a lot more neurotic and afraid
> and unhappy with the world-as-it-is than libertarian types. That makes
> sense.

In large part afraid of right-wing engineers whose preferred system of
governance is some old white guy like themselves being supreme dictator
of America, and utilizing their absolute God-emperor power to order the
deaths of millions of conservative-defined genetic sub-humans unworthy
of life.

> Engineers need guts. We need to take risks, explore possibilities,
> risk ridicule, ignore conventions and rules and peer pressures, misuse
> parts, and test things to destruction, preferably with sparks and
> smoke and loud noises.

Convention says building death camps is bad but conservatives who
regularly ignore convention tend to be unpredictable.

[bitrex]

On 1/14/2022 9:35 PM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 17:50:41 -0800 (PST), Phil Allison
> <palli...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> John Larkin wrote:
>> ================

>>> https://amac.us/the-science-proves-it-conservatives-are-happier-than-liberals/
>>>
>>> Conservatives are better engineers too.
>>>
>>

>> ** Left wing "engineers" only write software code.
>>
>>

>> ..... Phil

>
> To paraphrase Mae West, a hardware man is good to find.
>
>
>

Ah, so you have been a salesman.

[bitrex]

On 1/14/2022 8:27 PM, Anthony William Sloman wrote:

> On Saturday, January 15, 2022 at 11:55:12 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 16:31:36 -0800, corvid <b...@ckb.ird> wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/14/22 14:55, John Larkin wrote:
>>>>

>>>> https://amac.us/the-science-proves-it-conservatives-are-happier-than-liberals/
>>>>
>>>> Conservatives are better engineers too.
>

> Not that John Larkin understand engineering well enough to have a useful opinion on the subject.

>
>>> https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-human-beast/201104/conservatives-big-fear-brain-study-finds>
>>
>> FMRI is about as useful as reading tea leaves, without getting a cup of tea.
>

> In John Larkin's exert opinion. The professionals aren't that much more cheerful - it's takes a big and expensive machine, and the researchers with the political clout to get time on such a machine don't tend to spend enough time of thinking about what they are doing with it, but the psychologists who do it are learning a bit about what happens where in the brain (and when). It's finer-grained than waiting for somebody to have a stroke and seeing how their thinking falls to pieces on consequence, but not all that fine-grained.

>
>> In my direct experience, lefties are a lot more neurotic and afraid
>> and unhappy with the world-as-it-is than libertarian types. That makes
>> sense.
>

> Sure, Libertarian types are perfectly happy with the world exactly the way it is, and don't spend any time thinking about how it might be changed to work better.
> Dumb as a rock and happy as a clam.

>
>> Engineers need guts. We need to take risks, explore possibilities,
>> risk ridicule, ignore conventions and rules and peer pressures, misuse
>> parts, and test things to destruction, preferably with sparks and
>> smoke and loud noises.
>

> So do social engineers. The less risk-averse amongst them go in for revolutions, which do tend to test society to destruction, and generate lots of smoke and loud noises.

As I understand it we owe Fairchild Semiconductor to that "type" of
engineer, his name was William Shockley and half his team eventually
left to found FS cuz they couldn't stand the blowhard.

> John Larkin lacks the wit to see society as a mechanism which can be tinkered with. The US Founding Fathers were more willing to think about changing it, but their successors were slow to embrace changes like universal education (when it became economically practical), still haven't embraced universal health care and still can't see the point of proportional representation, though most of Europe embraced it about a hundred years ago.
>

[David Brown]

That is total drivel. Completely.

I am a socialist in my politics - I am strongly left-wing. (That's
completely different from "communist", for those Americans who don't
understand politics - more like the social democracies of northern
Europe, though I am quite left-wing even by Norwegian standards.)

That is /completely/ independent from being a social person. I'm not
very social, and never have been.

Political socialism is about wanting your country to be better for
people as a whole, rather than for individuals - it's about wanting a
state that provides good schools and health care for everyone regardless
of their economic state, at the expense of less choice for those with
more money. It's about wanting a flatter society with fewer differences
between the haves and the have-nots.

That has no relation whatsoever to how personally social a person might be.

It is not more "tribal" - it is aiming for a wider society, which would
be the opposite of the closed, territorial and tribal view from the
political right. It is not "unhappy" in any sense - nor does it even
make sense to talk about the "traditional norms of human behaviour".
(Although you could say that anyone whose personal politics differs
significantly from the society around them is likely to be less happy -
whether the difference is to the left or the right.)

And no, it is not remotely "more afraid". The more right-wing and
capitalist a society is, the more afraid people are. Those with lots of
money are afraid others will take it from them - criminals, the state,
or other people. Those with little money are afraid they are one step
away from having nothing - in the USA, losing your job can easily mean
losing your house and the whole family losing access to health care. In
a more socialist country you have a more even and trusting society, and
are safe and happy both with other people and with the authorities and
state. And you know that if something goes terribly wrong in your life
- such as losing your job or getting seriously ill - you have a safety
net to limit the consequences. That makes you happier, less worried and
less afraid.

>
> Libertarians are more like "OK, I understand the rules of the gain,
> get out of my way and let me play to win."
>
> Being social, tribal, means that one is hypersensitive to group
> behavior and peer pressure. And afraid of rejection by peers. That
> means, in engineering, doing everything by the book and being
> inhibited against presenting radical ideas. I see this all the time.
>

I don't think you /see/ anything except what you choose to look at in
order to bolster your screwed-up views.

[David Brown]

On 15/01/2022 18:51, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 17:41:39 +0000, Pomegranate Bastard
> <pom...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 14:55:19 -0800, John Larkin
>> <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> https://amac.us/the-science-proves-it-conservatives-are-happier-than-liberals/
>>>
>>> Conservatives are better engineers too.
>>
>> Right whingers are just scaredy-cats. Especially when it comes to AGW
>> denial.
>>
>> https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-human-beast/201812/why-do-ever-fearful-conservatives-ignore-climate-threat
>
> That's absurd. Discounting climate change, being optimistic about the
> future, is the opposite of being scared.

Again - ignorance is bliss.

>
> Kids today are literally afraid of the world being destroyed by
> climate change. "How dare you!" build what we have.

Of course they are - because many kids today have a far better grasp of
reality and science than you do. Previous generations have totally
disregarded the abuse of the planet and overuse of resources - they have
been happy to push the problems on to the future generations. You and
your like have been happy in the knowledge that you'll be dead before
the seas swamp your cities so it is not /your/ problem. Now we have
people who starting to realise that /they/ are the ones that have to do
something about it, and /they/ are the ones who will be suffering the
consequences of their parents' and grandparents' greed. And they are
right to be afraid.

That, however, has nothing at all to do with being conservative or
socialist, or right-wing or left-wing. It has to do with education,
understanding, empathy, science, and paying attention to the world
around you.

[DecadentLinux...@decadence.org]

John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in

news:6nv3ugto7ejcn4lsd...@4ax.com:

> Conservatives are better engineers too.
>

You just can't stop spouting retarded, divisive stupid shit, eh?
You should have somebody sew that upper anus shut.

[DecadentLinux...@decadence.org]

David Brown <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote in
news:srv735$jiu$1...@dont-email.me:

+ a friggin' million!

Good job, David, of pegging Larkin right on the mark.
Quite socially, rewarding reading your take.

[jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com]

Imaginary straw people again.

[jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com]

On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 20:25:25 +0100, David Brown

Tribal name-calling is not rational thought or discussion.

[jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com]

Not so. Some people are afraid of most everything. I know people who
jump and gasp when another car crosses our path. I know people who are
terrified of this latest virus. I've known EEs who wouldn't touch a
PCB when they know the supply rail is 5 volts; that makes probing
difficult. Some people rarely if ever feel fear.

We had some fun recently with home covid tests. They required a tiny
finger prick to get a drop of blood. One macho guy, a rock climber
among other things, broke into a sweat and untimately couldn't do it.
I offered to zap him and he refused that too.

I think propensity to fear is mostly inborn. Some kids have it, some
don't.

[jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com]

On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 18:27:39 +0000, Pomegranate Bastard

I never claimed to be any winger. I belong to no political parties.
I'm just interested in human dynamics, especially as it affects
engineering. Which it sure does.

I was stopped at a red light yesterday on Monterey, at the freeway
entrance. A huge flock of black birds, a tight cluster of a few
hundred, was flailing around the sky apparently randomly. They looked
like a giant black water balloon in a tornado. I tried to see if any
bird was in the lead and it sure didn't look like it. Just when the
light turned green, they all dived together and disappeared into a
tree.

Made me think of tribes of people. Similar dynamics, group action with
nobody in charge.

[jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com]

On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 20:33:54 +0100, David Brown
<david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:

>On 15/01/2022 18:51, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>> On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 17:41:39 +0000, Pomegranate Bastard
>> <pom...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 14:55:19 -0800, John Larkin
>>> <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://amac.us/the-science-proves-it-conservatives-are-happier-than-liberals/
>>>>
>>>> Conservatives are better engineers too.
>>>
>>> Right whingers are just scaredy-cats. Especially when it comes to AGW
>>> denial.
>>>
>>> https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-human-beast/201812/why-do-ever-fearful-conservatives-ignore-climate-threat
>>
>> That's absurd. Discounting climate change, being optimistic about the
>> future, is the opposite of being scared.
>
>Again - ignorance is bliss.
>
>>
>> Kids today are literally afraid of the world being destroyed by
>> climate change. "How dare you!" build what we have.
>
>Of course they are - because many kids today have a far better grasp of
>reality and science than you do. Previous generations have totally
>disregarded the abuse of the planet and overuse of resources - they have
>been happy to push the problems on to the future generations.

Previous generations, many by now, have predicted imminent doom: peak
oil, global cooling, mass starvation, using up all the metals. It
hasn't happened; things keep getting better. Nobody seems to be
pointing out to the kids how well off they are by historical
standards. Ungrateful little brats.


You and
>your like

You're being tribal again. Beats thinking.

have been happy in the knowledge that you'll be dead before
>the seas swamp your cities so it is not /your/ problem.

At 2 mm per year, we'll probably have another ice age before we drown.
Being a mile deep in ice *would* be a lot worse than ankle-deep in
warm sea water. Make more CO2.

The big sea level problem in coastal cities is manmade subsidence from
pumping out groundwater. Bad for real estate values for the beach
villas.

[jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com]

On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 13:14:29 -0500, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:

>On 1/15/2022 12:41 PM, Pomegranate Bastard wrote:
>> On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 14:55:19 -0800, John Larkin
>> <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> https://amac.us/the-science-proves-it-conservatives-are-happier-than-liberals/
>>>
>>> Conservatives are better engineers too.
>>
>> Right whingers are just scaredy-cats. Especially when it comes to AGW
>> denial.
>>
>> https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-human-beast/201812/why-do-ever-fearful-conservatives-ignore-climate-threat
>
>Mr. Larkin is scared of STDs though he's brought this up on a number of
>occasions.

Not scared, just rationally prudent about a common hazard. Besides, I
don't like wake up with random strangers who might make bad coffee.

I do appreciate that having accidents and diseases and lawsuits are a
boring nuisance. If I am afraid of anything, it's boredom.

But group dynamics interests me, and I'm not a group.

Old hens tend to group. They cluck and my-o-my together.

>
>Meanwhile millions of conservative Evangelical blowhards have been
>putting the fear of God into young adult about STDs for decades, and now
>the same ones are all running around no vaccines no masks.

The same ones? Another made-up population to mock.

>
>But definitely be scared of sex outside of marriage you're gonna die
>from an STD that the average young adult who has sex outside of marriage
> has about a ten thousand times less chance of dying from than Covid.

STDs are rarely lethal any more. But they can be dangerous to a
partner. You might have fun and leave her infertile. The more people
you sleep with, the bigger germ pool you play in.

Things like herpes can be a nuisance too.

[Tom Gardner]

On 15/01/22 20:30, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 20:25:25 +0100, David Brown
> <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:
>
>> On 15/01/2022 16:57, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>> On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 16:39:01 +0100, David Brown
>>> <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 14/01/2022 23:55, John Larkin wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://amac.us/the-science-proves-it-conservatives-are-happier-than-liberals/

See your later comment, below.

Pot. Kettle. Black. (ref your original article)

Clearly David's points are too subtle and long for you
to bother to read them. Instead your response is to
reflexively ignore them and therefore dismiss them.

Some people are so hidebound they can't /think/ anymore.

[Tom Gardner]

Conservatives are particularly prone to that; libertarians more so.

[Phil Allison]

David Brown wrote:
================

JL wrote:
> >
> > Kids today are literally afraid of the world being destroyed by
> > climate change. "How dare you!" build what we have.
>
>
> Of course they are - because many kids today have a far better grasp of
> reality and science than you do.
>

** Totally delusional thinking.

JL's quote is from mad Greta - who simply has no grasp of anything.
But at least she has the excuse of being a child stooge for other's ambitions.

Lefty fuckwits like Brown have no excuse whatever.



..... Phil

[jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com]

Anarchists Unite!

The only common goal of libertarians is to be left alone.

The problem with coercive group action, passing laws to tax and
control everything, is that very few people understand how societies
and economies really work. Control usually degrades to group power and
self-interest and gross inefficiency.

It's better in those situations to allow a zillion random experiments
and allow the successful ones to grow. That's the way most things have
been invented.

[jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com]

On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 14:35:29 -0800 (PST), Phil Allison
<palli...@gmail.com> wrote:

>David Brown wrote:
>================
>JL wrote:
>> >
>> > Kids today are literally afraid of the world being destroyed by
>> > climate change. "How dare you!" build what we have.
>>
>>
>> Of course they are - because many kids today have a far better grasp of
>> reality and science than you do.
>>
>
>** Totally delusional thinking.
>
> JL's quote is from mad Greta - who simply has no grasp of anything.
>But at least she has the excuse of being a child stooge for other's ambitions.

She seems to be an industry. It will be interesting to follow her
life.

[jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com]

And some people, namely most people here, switch to personal insults
instead of considering objective opinions.

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Sunday, January 16, 2022 at 2:57:40 AM UTC+11, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 16:39:01 +0100, David Brown
> <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:
>
> >On 14/01/2022 23:55, John Larkin wrote:
> >>
> >> https://amac.us/the-science-proves-it-conservatives-are-happier-than-liberals/
> >>
> >

> >Ignorance is bliss?
> >
> >
> >Or is it really so surprising that a group dedicated to old
> >conservatives publishes an article saying something nice about old
> >conservatives?
> >
> >
> >> Conservatives are better engineers too.
> >>
> >
> >The term "conservative" can mean a great many things. In the USA, it is
> >often associated with the kind of muppets who think the world was
> >created a few thousand years ago, global climate change is a Chinese
> >conspiracy, and that Trump won the election. People so disconnected
> >with reality are not going to make good engineers - or be good at
> >anything, really. (They might be happy, though that seems unlikely - it
> >is more realistic that they would /claim/ to be happy.)
> >
> >It can also mean someone who is careful, frugal and prefers
> >tried-and-true solutions. That can be good for some engineering
> >challenges, bad for others.
> >
> >If by "conservative" you just mean people who tend to be somewhat more
> >right-wing in their political outlook than average, but not extreme,
> >then I expect it to be totally and utterly irrelevant to engineering
> >ability.
> But it's not. Socialists are literally more social than the average
> person. Leftists believe in collective action to govern everybody.

Actually they don't. They believe that a society should be organised in a way that pays attention to the needs and interests of all the members of that society.
Karl Marx got slung out of the international socialist movement in 1871 because it was widely felt that his enthusiasm for the leading role of the party was undemocratic.

<https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/801264-if-you-took-the-most-ardent-revolutionary-vested-him-in>

is contemporary reaction. John Larkin seems to think that all leftists are communists, when in reality most leftist think that communism is one more excuse used by a criminal conspiracy to try to dominate society.

> They are more dogmatic, more tribal, more unhappy with the traditional
> norms of human behavior. More afraid.

John Larkin doesn't know what their dogma looks like, and he is recycling US right-wing propaganda of a particularly fatuous kind.

> Libertarians are more like "OK, I understand the rules of the gain,
> get out of my way and let me play to win."

Libertarians do tend to simplify the rules if the game in ways that make easier for them to win.

> Being social, tribal, means that one is hypersensitive to group
> behavior and peer pressure. And afraid of rejection by peers. That
> means, in engineering, doing everything by the book and being
> inhibited against presenting radical ideas. I see this all the time.

John Larkin's grasp of what might be a radical idea isn't great. He hasn't got his name on a patent (or not at least on one where he came up with the radical idea).
I've done better, and my father and couple of my close friends have done a whole better with twenty-odd each.

> "What do you care what other people think?"
>
> Richard Feynman
>
> Exactly.

Richard Feynman could think to some effect. John Larkin can't.

> Great book, "Who Really Cares:" by Brooks.

Written and published to flatter people who think that they are conservative ( and are in fact intellectually lazy).

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Sunday, January 16, 2022 at 4:51:50 AM UTC+11, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 17:41:39 +0000, Pomegranate Bastard
> <pom...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 14:55:19 -0800, John Larkin
> ><jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>https://amac.us/the-science-proves-it-conservatives-are-happier-than-liberals/
> >>

> >>Conservatives are better engineers too.
> >

> >Right whingers are just scaredy-cats. Especially when it comes to AGW
> >denial.
> >
> >https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-human-beast/201812/why-do-ever-fearful-conservatives-ignore-climate-threat
>
> That's absurd. Discounting climate change, being optimistic about the future, is the opposite of being scared.

Actually, it's being unrealistic and ignorant. Ignoring a real problem isn't being optimistic or brave - it's just stupid.

> Kids today are literally afraid of the world being destroyed by climate change. "How dare you!" build what we have.

The kids are correctly afraid of the consequences of run-away global warming. John Larkin seems to think that an energy intensive life-style depends of burning fossil carbon to get that energy. Since China went into high-volume production of cheap, high-yield solar cells, Australia's electricity generating firms have given up building new fossil-carbon-powered power-station - solar farms produce electricity more cheaply, even if you figure in the cost of the grid storage required to keep the lights on over-night. Tesla sold their first grid-scale batter to South Australia in 2020 and it was a stunning success.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/tesla-big-battery-in-south-australia-delivers-stunning-windfall-profits-77644/

> Some people don't want to bring children into a doomed world.

The world isn't doomed. We can cut down our carbon dioxide emissions without abandoning our energy intensive habits, but it is going to take work, and the fossil carbon extraction industry isn't happy about it and is spending a lot of money on unconvincing propaganda aimed at gullible twits like John Larkin.

> Excellent; we'll have some beneficial selective breeding.

Probably not.

> Good engineering rule of thumb: don't be scared.

A better one is don't be ignorant, but John Larkin isn't going to take that seriously. He claims that he can't be scared, which he thinks would give him an advantage as a engineer, but he is regrettably ignorant, to such an extent that he doesn't realise quite how ignorant he is.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Sunday, January 16, 2022 at 7:28:12 AM UTC+11, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 13:31:55 -0500, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:
> >On 1/15/2022 10:57 AM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> >> On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 16:39:01 +0100, David Brown
> >> <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:
> >>> On 14/01/2022 23:55, John Larkin wrote:

<snip>

> >I don't understand why conservatives have a problem with people
> >self-defining their gender identity, they let conservatives call
> >themselves libertarians all the time on the grounds that they should
> >have the liberty to do that...
>
> Imaginary straw people again.

If only John Doe were imaginary. Sadly, he's real enough to post his nonsense here all too often.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

[Anthony William Sloman]

But John Larkin doesn't do anything else.

" But it's not. Socialists are literally more social than the average person. Leftists believe in collective action to govern everybody."

That's communists, not socialists.

"They are more dogmatic, more tribal, more unhappy with the traditional norms of human behavior. More afraid. "

That's merely irrational nonsense - tribal name-calling.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

[Phil Allison]

jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
===============================

>
> Not so. Some people are afraid of most everything.

** Called neurotics.

> I know people who are terrified of this latest virus.

** Sensible fear.

> I've known EEs who wouldn't touch a
> PCB when they know the supply rail is 5 volts;

** Autistic neurotics.

> Some people rarely if ever feel fear.

** As if you could ever tell.

> We had some fun recently with home covid tests. They required a tiny
> finger prick to get a drop of blood. One macho guy, a rock climber
> among other things, broke into a sweat and untimately couldn't do it.
> I offered to zap him and he refused that too.

** Phobias about seeing blood, one own or others are not unusual.

> I think propensity to fear is mostly inborn.

** A basic, self protection instinct.

> Some kids have it, some don't.

** Utter bullshit.



.... Phil

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Sunday, January 16, 2022 at 8:05:28 AM UTC+11, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 20:33:54 +0100, David Brown <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:
> >On 15/01/2022 18:51, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> >> On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 17:41:39 +0000, Pomegranate Bastard > <pom...@aol.com> wrote:
> >>> On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 14:55:19 -0800, John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

<snip>

> >Of course they are - because many kids today have a far better grasp of
> >reality and science than you do. Previous generations have totally
> >disregarded the abuse of the planet and overuse of resources - they have
> >been happy to push the problems on to the future generations.
>
> Previous generations, many by now, have predicted imminent doom: peak
> oil, global cooling, mass starvation, using up all the metals. It
> hasn't happened; things keep getting better.

Those weren't predictions - more ill-informed warnings about what might happen.

Anthropogenic global warming is real and happening now, creating real problems and killing real people, and there are excellent observations that show that it is getting worse quite rapidly.

https://gml.noaa.gov/ccgg/trends/

> Nobody seems to be pointing out to the kids how well off they are by historical standards. Ungrateful little brats.

Steve Pinker has written a book about it

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlightenment_Now

Of course an enlightened approach to anthropogenic global warming involves doing something about it before it gets even worse, and John Larkin doesn't feel like being that enlightened.

> You're being tribal again. Beats thinking.

That's our John Larkin. He can't think and won't think, and posts tribal slurs against people who can and do.

> > have been happy in the knowledge that you'll be dead before
> >the seas swamp your cities so it is not /your/ problem.
>
> At 2 mm per year, we'll probably have another ice age before we drown.

That 2mm per year is the thermal expansion of the existing oceans. John Larkin ignores the the six metres of sea level rise tied up in the Greenland ice sheet, and the four metres tied up in the West Antarctic ice sheet, which will make themselves felt quite rapidly when these ice sheets chose to slide off into the ocean (as a whole bunch if ice sheets did at the end of the most recent ice age).

> Being a mile deep in ice *would* be a lot worse than ankle-deep in warm sea water. Make more CO2.

10 metres of sea level rise isn't ankle deep, and we've already dumped enough CO2 into the atmosphere to immunise us against another ice age for a few tens of thousands of year.

> The big sea level problem in coastal cities is manmade subsidence from pumping out groundwater. Bad for real estate values for the beach villas.

It is right now. When the ice sheets start sliding more rapidly, we'll be in a different situation.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Sunday, January 16, 2022 at 9:35:34 AM UTC+11, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
> David Brown wrote:
> ================
> JL wrote:
> > >
> > > Kids today are literally afraid of the world being destroyed by
> > > climate change. "How dare you!" build what we have.
> >
> >
> > Of course they are - because many kids today have a far better grasp of
> > reality and science than you do.
> >
> ** Totally delusional thinking.

Phil Allison doesn't think at all and parades other people delusions more or less nonstop.

>
> JL's quote is from mad Greta - who simply has no grasp of anything.

Not remotely true. Greta Thunberg is remarkably sane.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greta_Thunberg

> But at least she has the excuse of being a child stooge for other's ambitions.

Phil may think that. It's the kind of unrealistic nonsense he does like to believe.

> Lefty fuckwits like Brown have no excuse whatever.

Except that David Brown isn't any kind of fuckwit, and Phil Allison's addiction to the nonsense he hears on Sky News and his delusions about autists under every bed mark him out as classic fuckwit. He does know quite a bit about audio electronics, but that merely makes him an idiot savant. They do tend to suffer from autism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savant_syndrome

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Sunday, January 16, 2022 at 11:01:17 AM UTC+11, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 22:05:50 +0000, Tom Gardner <spam...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> >On 15/01/22 20:30, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> >> On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 20:25:25 +0100, David Brown <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:
> >>> On 15/01/2022 16:57, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> >>>> On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 16:39:01 +0100, David Brown <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:
> >>>>> On 14/01/2022 23:55, John Larkin wrote:

<snip>

> >Some people are so hidebound they can't /think/ anymore.
>
> And some people, namely most people here, switch to personal insults instead of considering objective opinions.

John Larkin does seem to be prize example of the breed.

" Being social, tribal, means that one is hypersensitive to group behavior and peer pressure. And afraid of rejection by peers. That means, in engineering, doing everything by the book and being inhibited against presenting radical ideas. I see this all the time."

He likes to think that this is what he sees - what he is actually seeing is people being rude about his silly ideas, and he's too silly to realise that they are right.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

[whit3rd]

On Saturday, January 15, 2022 at 9:51:50 AM UTC-8, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 17:41:39 +0000, Pomegranate Bastard
> <pom...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 14:55:19 -0800, John Larkin
> ><jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

> Discounting climate change, being optimistic about the
> future, is the opposite of being scared.

Don't be silly; climate change is susceptible to investigation and contemplation
without regard to optimism, or fear, or argyle socks. You do need awareness, wisdom,
and some measure of worldwide cooperative action (even if it's only
to compare notes).

> Kids today are...

You sound like everyone's granddad.

[corvid]

I wonder how much time David spent on writing that post. It's the sort
of thing I'd expect to find published in the "Opinion" section of a good
newspaper.

[Phil Allison]

corvid wrote:
================

> >
> > Tribal name-calling is not rational thought or discussion.
>
> I wonder how much time David spent on writing that post. It's the sort
> of thing I'd expect to find published in the "Opinion" section of a good
> newspaper.
>

** You mean some left wing rag like the NYT ?

David Brown is half witted, raving nut case virtue signaler.

And you fuckwit handle is way too close to killer bat virus.




..... Phil

[corvid]

I want to be Green Siskin. I saw that on my last bag of wild bird seed.

[David Brown]

Did you bother to read my post, or did you think it looked too much like
rational thought for you to deal with? Rather than being forced to rub
both brain cells together and /think/, you prefer a feeble attempt at a
pithy response with a total disregard for its content.

Others who are more literate might note that the person trying to divide
people into "tribes" was /you/, with your Victorian-era love of dividing
people into groups and making wide-sweeping and completely
unsubstantiated claims about how grouping by one characteristic implies
other characteristics. (This is despite you claiming that socialists
are "tribal" !)

What will be next on your list of absurd connections? Will you be
telling us that socialists are bad cooks? Atheists have poor colour
sense? People who think the planets go round the sun don't make good
leaders?

[David Brown]

Not long, really. Unfortunately, as you can see from the responses,
it's preaching to the choir. Those who could do with a better
understanding of reality, such as John Larkin, either cannot or will not
try to understand it. Still, I'm glad at least some people enjoyed it -
it seems even Phil Allison liked it in his own somewhat peculiar fashion.

[Phil Allison]

David Brown = Rabid Psychopath vomited
===============================

> >>
> >> Tribal name-calling is not rational thought or discussion.
> >
> > I wonder how much time David spent on writing that post. It's the sort
> > of thing I'd expect to find published in the "Opinion" section of a good
> > newspaper.
<
> Not long, really. Unfortunately, as you can see from the responses,
> it's preaching to the choir.
>

** How fucking DELUSIONAL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Brown is a ASD fucked utter moron.

> Still, I'm glad at least some people enjoyed it -
> it seems even Phil Allison liked it in his own somewhat peculiar fashion.

** My god - is there no end to this brain dead POS's putrid insanity.

His skull must be 2 inches fucking thick.



....... Phil

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Sunday, January 16, 2022 at 9:10:31 PM UTC+11, palli...@gmail.com wrote:
> David Brown = Rabid Psychopath vomited
> ===============================
> > >>
> > >> Tribal name-calling is not rational thought or discussion.
> > >
> > > I wonder how much time David spent on writing that post. It's the sort
> > > of thing I'd expect to find published in the "Opinion" section of a good
> > > newspaper.
> <
> > Not long, really. Unfortunately, as you can see from the responses,
> > it's preaching to the choir.
> >
> ** How fucking DELUSIONAL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Phil is the deluded idiot here.

> Brown is a ASD fucked utter moron.

Far from it. A lot further from that state than Phil is. If anybody who posts here is on the autism spectrum it's got to be Phil - he sees more austism than the rest of us put together, and lot more than you'd expect from the known population incidence, so it does look as if Phil has a personal interest in the problem. and there was nothing moronic about his post - quite the reverse (which may be part of the problem, for Phil).

> > Still, I'm glad at least some people enjoyed it -
> > it seems even Phil Allison liked it in his own somewhat peculiar fashion.

> ** My god - is there no end to this brain dead POS's putrid insanity.

I think the implication was that you weren't quite as far over the top in your objections to it as you have been known to be - you were merely cross rather than throwing your usual screaming tantrum.

> His skull must be 2 inches fucking thick.

Phil draws a nonsense conclusion from his own bizarre reading of a perfectly sensible comment (which he naturally doesn't want to agree with).

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

[Pomegranate Bastard]

On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 20:11:26 -0000 (UTC),
DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:

>John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
>news:6nv3ugto7ejcn4lsd...@4ax.com:

>
>> Conservatives are better engineers too.
>>
>

> You just can't stop spouting retarded, divisive stupid shit, eh?
>You should have somebody sew that upper anus shut.

Best ignore the gullible old narcissist.

[jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com]

Several of them. They don't design electronics anyhow.

[jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com]

Good?

[jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com]

After extensive controlled experiments, we have found that wild birds
by far prefer Fritos. So do squirrels.

We have a local one-legged scrub jay "Gimpy" that will rip a Frito out
of my hand, mid-air if I'm too slow putting them down on the deck.

The jays and the ravens fight over the Fritos. The jays win.

[jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com]

On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 10:46:09 +0100, David Brown

Don't tire your valuable brain discussing hard stuff like system
dynamics, or especially electronic design. Kid-level insults are your
real talent.

That's the usual pattern:

"Maybe A causes B"

"You are an idiot."

[David Brown]

You do realise that people who actually /do/ design work - real work, on
real products - rarely discuss details of proprietary designs with
random strangers on the internet? The only people here who talk about
their work are amateurs (nothing wrong with that - it is not an insult
of any kind), retirees (again, nothing wrong with that) and people who
boast about how much better they are than everyone else, despite a
complete absence of any kind of evidence or justification.

[Pomegranate Bastard]

Precisely. Couldn't have put it better myself.

Classically narcissistic behaviour.

>
>

[corvid]

On 1/16/22 07:59, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 21:49:19 -0800, corvid <b...@ckb.ird> wrote:

>> I want to be Green Siskin. I saw that on my last bag of wild bird seed.

Pine Siskin.

https://ebird.org/species/pinsis/US-CA-037
https://cdn.download.ams.birds.cornell.edu/api/v1/asset/550609/audio

> After extensive controlled experiments, we have found that wild birds
> by far prefer Fritos. So do squirrels.
>
> We have a local one-legged scrub jay "Gimpy" that will rip a Frito out
> of my hand, mid-air if I'm too slow putting them down on the deck.

Ours is "Berry", lost a foot many months ago. Another jay limps on a bad
leg. I think they're being injured by someone's mouse traps.

[jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com]

Possibly bit by a snake or something. Gimpy seems to get along fine.
Birds often perch on one lag.

[jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com]

On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 17:29:12 +0100, David Brown
<david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:

I design in public; actual problems, sims, circuits, parts, boards,
boxes. It makes for conversation and idea sharing. It helps me think.
I have met some cool people.

It's not ego; I just like electronics. When have I boasted about being
much better than everyone else? Cite? Besides, it's not true.

Sadly, the endless ritual insults and old-hen-clucking here have
driven away a few really good and candid people. I'm not so much
better than other engineers, merely still here and talking about
electronics.

Most people here keep a lot of details to themselves, presenting
under-specified problems that they want help with, when they have no
reason to do that. Only a few people are open and generous about the
topic here, electronic design. I wonder why so many people are so
secretive, even amateurs who have no employer NDAs or anything.

If I post a sim or a schematic or a PCB layout, why would you think
that is boasting? Weird.

[Rick C]

+1

However, anyone posting to this group and complaining about others, has their own psychological issues and that includes me. It's like yelling into a well. No one hears you but yourself and the trolls... trolls... trolls.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

[John Doe]

jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

> Sadly, the endless ritual insults and old-hen-clucking here have
> driven away a few really good and candid people.

Only technically illiterate people who cannot press the "Ignore Thread" key.

Maybe it shouldn't be necessary, but seriously... Single-key "Ignore Thread"
with any half decent newsreader is trivial.

And when you add single-key "Ignore Sub Thread", you have the tools for easy
USENET reading. All they have to do is exercise some self-control and use
those two keys. The rest of it is just the way USENET is, with its free
speech.

[jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com]

On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 19:20:45 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
<alway...@message.header> wrote:

>jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>
>> Sadly, the endless ritual insults and old-hen-clucking here have
>> driven away a few really good and candid people.
>
>Only technically illiterate people who cannot press the "Ignore Thread" key.

Is Win Hill technically illiterate?

[John Doe]

With the minor exception of improperly labeled off-topic posts, lately
this group is easy to read.

Is there some soft and fuzzy place real engineers can post to get help
with workplace engineering problems? You know, like someplace you have to
pay (at least for a forum subscription), and/or to provide engineering
credentials, for help?

Sometimes people run off to free Internet forums for this and that, but
they come back here to whine about censorship. Maybe that problem exists
in paid-for forums too, since they are all moderated.

Would be REALLY great if Internet forums would adopt mutual blocking. But
oh well.

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Monday, January 17, 2022 at 6:08:35 AM UTC+11, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 17:29:12 +0100, David Brown
> <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:
> >On 16/01/2022 16:25, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> >> On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 13:49:15 +0000, Pomegranate Bastard
> >> <Pom...@aol.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 20:11:26 -0000 (UTC),
> >>> DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
> >>>> news:6nv3ugto7ejcn4lsd...@4ax.com:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Conservatives are better engineers too.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> You just can't stop spouting retarded, divisive stupid shit, eh?
> >>>> You should have somebody sew that upper anus shut.
> >>>
> >>> Best ignore the gullible old narcissist.
> >>
> >> Several of them. They don't design electronics anyhow.
> >
> >You do realise that people who actually /do/ design work - real work, on
> >real products - rarely discuss details of proprietary designs with
> >random strangers on the internet? The only people here who talk about
> >their work are amateurs (nothing wrong with that - it is not an insult
> >of any kind), retirees (again, nothing wrong with that) and people who
> >boast about how much better they are than everyone else, despite a
> >complete absence of any kind of evidence or justification.
> >
> I design in public; actual problems, sims, circuits, parts, boards,
> boxes.

John Larkin doesn't seem to design anything. He does evolve stuff, and boasts about here from time to time

> It makes for conversation and idea sharing. It helps me think.

John Larkin doesn't indulge in conversation about his circuits - he presents them in the expectation that they will be admired, and that's the only kind of "idea sharing" that he has in mind. If the remote prospect of being admired helps him think, I'm all for it - he needs all the help he can get.

> I have met some cool people.

Who praised him more generously than he deserved because that's how you get him to do what you want.

> It's not ego; I just like electronics. When have I boasted about being
> much better than everyone else? Cite? Besides, it's not true.

There was a time when you claimed that your designs were insanely good. The "insanity" was more plausible than the "good" - the stuff you exhibited here was tediously pedestrian

> Sadly, the endless ritual insults and old-hen-clucking here have driven away a few really good and candid people.

Really? Name one?

> I'm not so much better than other engineers, merely still here and talking about electronics.

Mostly right, but John Larkin mostly doesn't talk about electronics.

> Most people here keep a lot of details to themselves, presenting
> under-specified problems that they want help with, when they have no
> reason to do that.

Newbies don't appreciate how much context they need to present before they can get useful help.

A lot of the art of good design is in seeing the problem as a whole, and that is a skill that takes a while to develop. They aren't recitent from malice, but rather because they don't appreciate that the extra information would be useful.

> Only a few people are open and generous about the
> topic here, electronic design. I wonder why so many people are so
> secretive, even amateurs who have no employer NDAs or anything.

It takes more effort to write a longer post. If you don't appreciate that the information would be useful, you won't bother to post it.

> If I post a sim or a schematic or a PCB layout, why would you think that is boasting? Weird.

Because you react as if you expect to praised, rather than like somebody interested in starting a discussion.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Monday, January 17, 2022 at 9:34:10 AM UTC+11, John Doe wrote:
>
> With the minor exception of improperly labeled off-topic posts, lately
> this group is easy to read.

Of course John Doe does post a lot of badly formatted off-topic posts, quite a few of them about the moral defects of transgender athletes.

> Is there some soft and fuzzy place real engineers can post to get help
> with workplace engineering problems? You know, like someplace you have to
> pay (at least for a forum subscription), and/or to provide engineering
> credentials, for help?

The world is full of consultants who will offer help at a fixed hourly rate.

> Sometimes people run off to free Internet forums for this and that, but
> they come back here to whine about censorship. Maybe that problem exists
> in paid-for forums too, since they are all moderated.
>
> Would be REALLY great if Internet forums would adopt mutual blocking. But oh well.

Any useful form of blocking would exclude John Doe - he really is a useless troll.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

[John Doe]

And speaking of... Bozo Bill Sloman would be a GREAT example
of mutual blocking's effectiveness...

[John Doe]

With mutual blocking, Bozo Bill Sloman would have very few people to troll.
It would open the group and find nobody there! I certainly wouldn't be, I
would solve its problems with me in a heartbeat.

If only!!!


"the concepts "male" and "female" are essentially social constructions"
(Bill Sloman)

"the Mueller investigation was about Trump only because Trump made it so"
(Bozo paraphrased)

Bozo Bill Sloman is an attention-craving chronic liar who cannot be reasoned
with...

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Monday, January 17, 2022 at 12:09:17 PM UTC+11, John Doe wrote:
On 1/17/2022 12:09 PM, Anthony William Sloman wrote:

<restoring some of the context that John Doe snipped>

>>Any useful form of blocking would exclude John Doe - he really is a useless troll
>

> And speaking of... Bill Sloman would be a GREAT example of mutual blocking's effectiveness...

John Doe does have these persistent delusions.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Monday, January 17, 2022 at 12:14:07 PM UTC+11, John Doe wrote:

On Monday, January 17, 2022 at 6:08:35 AM UTC+11, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 17:29:12 +0100, David Brown <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:
> >On 16/01/2022 16:25, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> >> On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 13:49:15 +0000, Pomegranate Bastard <Pom...@aol.com> wrote:
> >>> On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 20:11:26 -0000 (UTC), DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
> >>>> John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in news:6nv3ugto7ejcn4lsd...@4ax.com:

<giant unmarked snip by John Doe>

> With mutual blocking, Bill Sloman would have very few people to troll.

Since I don't "troll" anybody, I wouldn't find this a problem.

> It would open the group and find nobody there! I certainly wouldn't be, it would solve its problems with me in a heartbeat.

John Doe hasn't worked out how such a system could work. He's even less aware that any system that excluded people that most other posters didn't value would exclude him a lot faster than it would exclude me. Usernet has been around for more than twenty years now. Moderated groups are an attempt to keep people out, but they don't last - it depends on finding fair moderators, which only works in the sort term. More complicate schemes are conceivable, but nobody seems to have got one to work

> If only!!!

My thought exactly.

<I've snipped the rest of his comments and haven't bothered to put back all of the thread information that he had snipped>

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

[bitrex]

On 1/15/22 9:08 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
> jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> ===============================
>>
>> Not so. Some people are afraid of most everything.
>
> ** Called neurotics.
>
>> I know people who are terrified of this latest virus.
>
> ** Sensible fear.
>

Over on the sub-reddit Covid19Positive it's possible to read the
first-hand accounts from users who figured the virus was no big deal,
and ended up getting sick.

And then still figured it was no big deal, at least for a while until
they started getting even sicker, not improving, and eventually started
looking for answers from anyone they could to questions like "When will
I start getting better" or "What meds can I take/what special thing can
I demand they do at the hospital that will improve my condition" or "I'm
not going to die, am I?"

And others sometimes try to formulate some upbeat responses but nobody
really has any good answers; the users in question seem unable to
process the concept that their fate is now truly in the hands of
whatever God they believe in.

It makes for sobering reading, if they weren't afraid before they are by
that point.

[David Brown]

It is certainly not a group where you can expect to convince people to
change their minds! But sometimes you hear other opinions about
different topics - it's important to listen to arguments from the other
side (whatever the topic).

[Rick C]

On Saturday, January 15, 2022 at 1:26:57 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:

> On 1/15/2022 10:39 AM, David Brown wrote:
> > On 14/01/2022 23:55, John Larkin wrote:
> >>
> >> https://amac.us/the-science-proves-it-conservatives-are-happier-than-liberals/
> >>
> >
> > Ignorance is bliss?
> >
> >
> > Or is it really so surprising that a group dedicated to old
> > conservatives publishes an article saying something nice about old
> > conservatives?
> >
> >

> >> Conservatives are better engineers too.

Woo hoo! That got me a big laugh!!!

> > The term "conservative" can mean a great many things. In the USA, it is
> > often associated with the kind of muppets who think the world was
> > created a few thousand years ago, global climate change is a Chinese
> > conspiracy, and that Trump won the election. People so disconnected
> > with reality are not going to make good engineers - or be good at
> > anything, really. (They might be happy, though that seems unlikely - it
> > is more realistic that they would /claim/ to be happy.)

> Dishing out abuse seems to make USA conservatives happy and there's a
> lot of different types of people to dish out abuse to, so if that's how
> being "happier" is defined I could see how they're the happiest.

No need to condemn every conservative by the actions of a few vocal members of any group. I don't appreciate it when someone condemns all liberals for the actions of Antifa groups.

--

Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

[Rick C]

On Saturday, January 15, 2022 at 3:28:12 PM UTC-5, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 13:31:55 -0500, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:

>
> >On 1/15/2022 10:57 AM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> >> On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 16:39:01 +0100, David Brown

> >> <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 14/01/2022 23:55, John Larkin wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> https://amac.us/the-science-proves-it-conservatives-are-happier-than-liberals/
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Ignorance is bliss?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Or is it really so surprising that a group dedicated to old
> >>> conservatives publishes an article saying something nice about old
> >>> conservatives?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Conservatives are better engineers too.
> >>>>
> >>>

> >>> The term "conservative" can mean a great many things. In the USA, it is
> >>> often associated with the kind of muppets who think the world was
> >>> created a few thousand years ago, global climate change is a Chinese
> >>> conspiracy, and that Trump won the election. People so disconnected
> >>> with reality are not going to make good engineers - or be good at
> >>> anything, really. (They might be happy, though that seems unlikely - it
> >>> is more realistic that they would /claim/ to be happy.)
> >>>

> >>> It can also mean someone who is careful, frugal and prefers
> >>> tried-and-true solutions. That can be good for some engineering
> >>> challenges, bad for others.
> >>>
> >>> If by "conservative" you just mean people who tend to be somewhat more
> >>> right-wing in their political outlook than average, but not extreme,
> >>> then I expect it to be totally and utterly irrelevant to engineering
> >>> ability.
> >>
> >> But it's not. Socialists are literally more social than the average
> >> person. Leftists believe in collective action to govern everybody.
> >> They are more dogmatic, more tribal, more unhappy with the traditional
> >> norms of human behavior. More afraid.
> >

> >I had to chuckle at the first statement. If you wanted to meet a real
> >socialist today IRL where would you go. The socialist social club?
> >DateASocialist.com?
> >
> >Ok maybe in SF this is possible but SF isn't everywhere.

> >
> >> Libertarians are more like "OK, I understand the rules of the gain,
> >> get out of my way and let me play to win."
> >

> >I don't understand why conservatives have a problem with people
> >self-defining their gender identity, they let conservatives call
> >themselves libertarians all the time on the grounds that they should
> >have the liberty to do that...
> Imaginary straw people again.

The straw people... would that be the Socialists or the Leftists? You are talking about your comments, right?

--

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

[Rick C]

On Sunday, January 16, 2022 at 4:48:44 PM UTC-5, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 19:20:45 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
> <alway...@message.header> wrote:
>
> >jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> >
> >> Sadly, the endless ritual insults and old-hen-clucking here have
> >> driven away a few really good and candid people.

If that is a problem, why do you continue to do so much of it??? Either stop doing it or stop complaining about it.

--

Rick C.

-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

[Phil Hobbs]

Dunno--I discuss my proprietary designs here all the time, and put them
in books too. It helps my business, as well as sometimes generating
useful info for me as well as others.

IME the folks who hold their 'crown jewels' super close to the vest tend
to overrate said jewels' actual value by a lot. I've had people tell me
"in confidence" things I'd known for 20 years, such as that you need to
filter the drive to your TE coolers very carefully to avoid crap getting
into the cold-plate circuitry.

I do a fair amount of code reading for patent and trade secret lawsuits.
The legal protections for produced source code are enough to curl your
hair, so you'd expect that the code would really be something special.

From the tens of thousands of lines I've seen of such 'crown jewels',
the quality and the density of good ideas is far lower than on Stack
Overflow, say.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

[David Brown]

One big difference is whether the designs are your own property, or the
customers'. In my work, the majority of what we do is design for
customers - I could not possibly give out information about those
designs to others. The same would apply to employees of a company.

If you own your company and make your own designs, then you have all the
rights and can discuss them as you want - but I think that would be the
case for only a very small proportion of professional engineers.

> I do a fair amount of code reading for patent and trade secret lawsuits.
>  The legal protections for produced source code are enough to curl your
> hair, so you'd expect that the code would really be something special.
>
> From the tens of thousands of lines I've seen of such 'crown jewels',
> the quality and the density of good ideas is far lower than on Stack
> Overflow, say.
>

Sometimes that's why they want to keep it so secret :-)

Most engineering - electronic or software - is not hugely innovative.
Good engineering is mainly about implementing solid, reliable and
cost-effective solutions. Revolutionary new ideas are relatively rare,
but of course they can be very important. (What is that saying?
Invention is 1% innovation, 99% perspiration?)

Larkin will claim his stuff is all new revolutionary ideas, but we all
know the value of his claims.

[Pomegranate Bastard]

On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 08:04:17 -0800, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com
wrote:

Nobody has insulted you.

[Phil Hobbs]

That's true, but it's a very different statement from the preceding.

>> I do a fair amount of code reading for patent and trade secret lawsuits.
>>  The legal protections for produced source code are enough to curl your
>> hair, so you'd expect that the code would really be something special.
>>
>> From the tens of thousands of lines I've seen of such 'crown jewels',
>> the quality and the density of good ideas is far lower than on Stack
>> Overflow, say.
>>
>
> Sometimes that's why they want to keep it so secret :-)

Could well be. A lot of it is real genuine crudware--a clever
engineering manager could set his competition back years just by leaking
it to them. "Technical debt", Venezuela style.

> Most engineering - electronic or software - is not hugely innovative.
> Good engineering is mainly about implementing solid, reliable and
> cost-effective solutions. Revolutionary new ideas are relatively rare,
> but of course they can be very important. (What is that saying?
> Invention is 1% innovation, 99% perspiration?)

Edison said that because he was doing it wrong. (Just ask Nikola Tesla
next time you see him--he'll confirm it.) Edison introduced a very
important engineering metric--the inspiration/perspiration ratio--but
his quoted value of just over 1% shows a lot of room for improvement. ;)

> Larkin will claim his stuff is all new revolutionary ideas, but we all
> know the value of his claims.

John and I have collaborated on several projects over the last dozen
years or so. He's one of the two or three best designers I know, and
great fun to design things with. I'm hoping to do a bit of that next
week, in fact, when EOI is making a collective visit to Photonics West.

Maybe you move in more rarefied circles.

[David Brown]

Sure - I don't think the numbers are realistic (even if it were possible
to quantify them). My point is that most of the content of good designs
is not actually particularly new or exciting - a little bit of new idea
can go a long way. (And I don't disagree with your suggestion that a
lot of designs are neither good nor innovative!).

>> Larkin will claim his stuff is all new revolutionary ideas, but we all
>> know the value of his claims.
>
> John and I have collaborated on several projects over the last dozen
> years or so.  He's one of the two or three best designers I know, and
> great fun to design things with.  I'm hoping to do a bit of that next
> week, in fact, when EOI is making a collective visit to Photonics West.
>
> Maybe you move in more rarefied circles.
>

I have no reason to suspect that John Larkin is /not/ a good designer.
I simply see no reason to place any weight in his own opinions of
himself or his views on engineering. It is entirely reasonable to
suppose he is very good at a narrow and specialised field while being so
ignorant, biased or confused in so many other topics that turn up in
this newsgroup.

[jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com]

That's not very objective discussion. Kid level stuff, to avoid
thinking unwelcome thoughts. Or thinking at all.

[jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com]

On Mon, 17 Jan 2022 18:17:01 +0100, David Brown

I never said anything like that. I design circuits, and most ideas
have no doubt been discovered by someone else somewhere first, and
usually I have no way of knowing.

I occasionally come up with something original, because that's what I
do, and I often share it here. That seems to annoy you.

I need to measure some heat sink temperatures. If I use a really dinky
(cheap and available) FPGA with no ADC, I think I can digitize a
thermistor with two external passive parts. Add a 4051 and digitize
eight.

Wanna play?

[jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com]

On Mon, 17 Jan 2022 20:17:03 +0100, David Brown

Your emotional incentives must be really weird. And poorly aligned to
doing electronic design, which requires curiosity and agility and
humor.

[jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com]

Bring proof of vax or they won't let you in.

We spent an hour in San Diego with RS and DR, and it was a highlight
of my career. Putting smart and willing people together can be magic.

Then I got to thinking about discriminators. The Constant Fraction
Discriminator is superficially appealing and has, I suspect,
brainwashed generations of engineers and scientists.

I could show you what we finally did. Maybe you can explain it to me.