OT: "unsalted" butter

[Robert Baer]

Seems everyone is a liar; "unsalted" butter runs from a low of 2% to 10%.
And I really like non-existent whipped butter.

About as bad as "unsalted", "low salt", and "no salt" crackers; each
category having a rather specific and tight range of salt.

So you may be forced to "DIY" if your doctor tells you eating foods
with salt may severely shorten your life.


--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[Phil Allison]

Robert Baer is Off with the Fairies.
===============================

> Seems everyone is a liar; "unsalted" butter runs from a low of 2% to 10%.

** Total Garbage !!

Even "salted butter" never exceeds 2%.
10% would choke a brown dog.

Where does he drag this crazy crap up ?


...... Phil

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Wed, 15 Sep 2021 00:13:48 -0700) it happened Robert Baer
<rober...@localnet.com> wrote in
<16a4ed70383b631e$1$1696463$e0dd...@news.thecubenet.com>:

> Seems everyone is a liar; "unsalted" butter runs from a low of 2% to 10%.
> And I really like non-existent whipped butter.
>
> About as bad as "unsalted", "low salt", and "no salt" crackers; each
>category having a rather specific and tight range of salt.
>
> So you may be forced to "DIY" if your doctor tells you eating foods
>with salt may severely shorten your life.

Maybe take what your doctor says with a grain of salt?
I use lots of salt in everything I cook.
The table salt you buy here contains iodine.. helps against radiation sickness.
And I always buy salted butter.

OTOH if you had some blood test that shows you should not take salt things may be different.
But that is nit the normal.
Endless media crap -to much sugar (and then they die earlier from the surrogate)
No this no that,..

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <shsg2i$g8n$1...@dont-email.me>, pNaonSt...@yahoo.com
says...

>
> > So you may be forced to "DIY" if your doctor tells you eating foods
> >with salt may severely shorten your life.
>
> Maybe take what your doctor says with a grain of salt?
> I use lots of salt in everything I cook.
> The table salt you buy here contains iodine.. helps against radiation sickness.
> And I always buy salted butter.
>
> OTOH if you had some blood test that shows you should not take salt things may be different.
> But that is nit the normal.
> Endless media crap -to much sugar (and then they die earlier from the surrogate)
> No this no that,..
>
>
>

The doctor preached low salt to my wife. That put her in the hospital
for about a week due to low sodium. She now takes a salt pill or part
of one most days to keep the sodium level up.

While it may be something about radiation, iodine has been added to salt
for many years because your body needs some to prevent other things that
makes the thyroid gland function correctly.

[Ed Lee]

I dug (google) it up a bit. 1 table spoon of butter has 2mg. You would need to eat 500 spoons a day for 2400mg DV. I think we should worry more about sugar than salt.

[Ed Lee]

1200 spoons

[Ed Lee]

That might not be right. It should be around 50 to 100 spoons, or 1% to 2% DV. Still, sugar is more a problem than salt.

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <7f33223a-7905-4e64...@googlegroups.com>,
edward....@gmail.com says...

>
> I dug (google) it up a bit. 1 table spoon of butter has 2mg. You would need to eat 500 spoons a day for 2400mg DV. I think we should worry more about sugar than salt.
>
>

I don't worry about sugar or salt. I think that all the hype about
sugar is to get people to buy into the sugar subistutes. Some of them
are really bad for you. I just do not eat that many sweet things. My
blood sodium is in the normal range,so I do not worry about salt.

I remember the 'study' done on sacrin a number of years ago. Caused bad
problems in mice. Bump it up to human size and it was more than a
gallon a day every day. I doubt that anyone would ever use that much
sacrin even in one week. Almost anyting in excess can cause problems.

Just looked on ebay for a lawn mower part. A metal and plastic part for
the pull starter. Note on it says it can cause cancer and other bad
things in the state of California.
What do they think people are going to do with it, eat it or breath it
in ?

[Ed Lee]

On Wednesday, September 15, 2021 at 7:59:45 AM UTC-7, Ralph Mowery wrote:
> In article <7f33223a-7905-4e64...@googlegroups.com>,
> edward....@gmail.com says...
> >
> > I dug (google) it up a bit. 1 table spoon of butter has 2mg. You would need to eat 500 spoons a day for 2400mg DV. I think we should worry more about sugar than salt.
> >
> >
> I don't worry about sugar or salt. I think that all the hype about
> sugar is to get people to buy into the sugar subistutes. Some of them
> are really bad for you. I just do not eat that many sweet things. My
> blood sodium is in the normal range,so I do not worry about salt.

I only take natural sugar. I drink lots of orange juice to get rid of my sore throat, but 2 to 3 cups would use up my DV allowance. I also OD on ice-cream occasionally.

[John S]

Easy fix... don't use it in California.

If you live in California, *everything* causes cancer.

[Fred Bloggs]

On Wednesday, September 15, 2021 at 3:13:57 AM UTC-4, Robert Baer wrote:
> Seems everyone is a liar; "unsalted" butter runs from a low of 2% to 10%.
> And I really like non-existent whipped butter.
>
> About as bad as "unsalted", "low salt", and "no salt" crackers; each
> category having a rather specific and tight range of salt.
>
> So you may be forced to "DIY" if your doctor tells you eating foods
> with salt may severely shorten your life.

"Unsalted Butter has no added salt"
https://www.landolakes.com/products/butter-spreads/unsalted-butter/

If the nutritional analysis lists sodium then it must be naturally occurring in the milk.

[jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com]

On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 00:13:48 -0700, Robert Baer
<rober...@localnet.com> wrote:

> Seems everyone is a liar; "unsalted" butter runs from a low of 2% to 10%.
> And I really like non-existent whipped butter.

"Unsalted" means they didn't add salt to what the cows donated. That's
not the same as "salt-free."

Best to not eat butter if you are endangered by salt.

The soft Kerrygold butter is great for buttering bagels. It's all cow
stuff; some soft butters are full of weird greases.

>
> About as bad as "unsalted", "low salt", and "no salt" crackers; each
>category having a rather specific and tight range of salt.
>
> So you may be forced to "DIY" if your doctor tells you eating foods
>with salt may severely shorten your life.

One of the ingredients in Unscented Right Guard is "fragrance."

Salt is necessary to survival. The cows would die on a no-salt diet.

There has to be some legal limit to "low salt" or "reduced sodium"
because we could detect parts per billion.



--

Father Brown's figure remained quite dark and still;
but in that instant he had lost his head. His head was
always most valuable when he had lost it.

[Fred Bloggs]

On Wednesday, September 15, 2021 at 3:13:57 AM UTC-4, Robert Baer wrote:

> Seems everyone is a liar; "unsalted" butter runs from a low of 2% to 10%.
> And I really like non-existent whipped butter.
>
> About as bad as "unsalted", "low salt", and "no salt" crackers; each
> category having a rather specific and tight range of salt.
>
> So you may be forced to "DIY" if your doctor tells you eating foods
> with salt may severely shorten your life.

I thought so:
http://www.dietandfitnesstoday.com/sodium-in-whole-milk.php

[Steve Wilson]

jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

> On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 00:13:48 -0700, Robert Baer
> <rober...@localnet.com> wrote:
>
>> Seems everyone is a liar; "unsalted" butter runs from a low of 2% to
>> 10%. And I really like non-existent whipped butter.
>
> "Unsalted" means they didn't add salt to what the cows donated. That's
> not the same as "salt-free."
>
> Best to not eat butter if you are endangered by salt.
>
> The soft Kerrygold butter is great for buttering bagels. It's all cow
> stuff; some soft butters are full of weird greases.
>
>>
>> About as bad as "unsalted", "low salt", and "no salt" crackers; each
>>category having a rather specific and tight range of salt.
>>
>> So you may be forced to "DIY" if your doctor tells you eating foods
>> with salt may severely shorten your life.
>
> One of the ingredients in Unscented Right Guard is "fragrance."
>
> Salt is necessary to survival. The cows would die on a no-salt diet.
>
> There has to be some legal limit to "low salt" or "reduced sodium"
> because we could detect parts per billion.

I was suffering from excess sodium in my diet. This caused high blood
pressure and water retention.

I found a solution: switch to a salt free product. It substitutes potassium
(which we need anyway in our diet) for sodium, and it tastes exactly the
same as ordinary sodium salt. It's a bit more expensive but you use so
little it doesn't matter.

It is made by Windsor. Highly recommended.

https://windsorsalt.com/product/salt-free/




--
The best ideas occur in the theta state. - sw

[jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com]

A healthy body knows what it wants and excretes any excess.

[Tom Gardner]

Yes; see "Derbyshire neck" or goitre.

The reason potassium iodide is used for radiation poisoning
is to reduce caesium's ability to "settle" in the thyroid.

Potassium-40 is, of course, radioactive itself.

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <sht859$nqb$2...@dont-email.me>, spam...@blueyonder.co.uk
says...

>
> Yes; see "Derbyshire neck" or goitre.
>
> The reason potassium iodide is used for radiation poisoning
> is to reduce caesium's ability to "settle" in the thyroid.
>
> Potassium-40 is, of course, radioactive itself.
>
>

Yes, it is, I forgot about the radiation safety course I had to take
every year for work. A man giving the talk had a bottle of the salt
subistute and held it to a giger counter and showed how it had natural
radiation in it.

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

onsdag den 15. september 2021 kl. 09.13.57 UTC+2 skrev Robert Baer:
> Seems everyone is a liar; "unsalted" butter runs from a low of 2% to 10%.
> And I really like non-existent whipped butter.

nonsense, unsalted is ~0%, salted is ~1%

2-10% would be inedible

[Don Y]

On 9/15/2021 7:01 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
> The doctor preached low salt to my wife. That put her in the hospital
> for about a week due to low sodium. She now takes a salt pill or part
> of one most days to keep the sodium level up.

I think he may have not understood her *complete* diet.

It is easy to hit your RDA of sodium. Many people salt their veggies,
meat, etc.

Lots of other items have sodium in them. Look at a slice of bread.
Or, a cracker -- even "unsalted" ones. Cheeses, deli meats, milk,
etc.

Or, baked goods (even if no NaCl, there will often be other
leavening agents that contain sodium).

[I have to be particularly careful when baking for friends with true
"salt issues" -- like congestive heart failure]

Water softeners add sodium to your drinking water (depending on hardness;
here, it's common to see 100+mg in every quart of drinking water. If you
assume you drink at least three quarts daily (tea, coffee, etc.) then
that's another 300-500mg of "hidden" salt.

And don't even think of salt on your popcorn! :>

So, if he had considered her a "normal" eater, he likely assumed
she was getting more than enough "hidden" sodium and just wanted
her to avoid *adding* salt to foods.

That may have been a bad assumption.

[Ed Lee]

Yes, my initial result from google seems incorrect. 1% to 2% salt is more reasonable. We avoid butter more because of the fat than salt.

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Wed, 15 Sep 2021 13:15:18 -0400) it happened Ralph Mowery
<rmow...@charter.net> wrote in
<MPG.3babf4334...@news.eternal-september.org>:

So do bananas,
look up 'banana equivalent dose'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_equivalent_dose

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

no, it reduces the amount of radioactive Iodine-131 absorbed in thyroid ..

[Don Y]

On 9/15/2021 10:15 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:

> Yes, it is, I forgot about the radiation safety course I had to take
> every year for work. A man giving the talk had a bottle of the salt
> subistute and held it to a giger counter and showed how it had natural
> radiation in it.

You can buy salt that isn't iodized.

I use a lot of "popcorn/nut salt" -- very fine -- which is not iodized.
So, I remind myself to use "table salt" regularly with meals.

[Tom Gardner]

Another spread, marmite, is 10% salt.

Whether you consider that edible is, ahem, a matter of
taste. Personally I like it occasionally.

[Tom Gardner]

That makes more sense than caesium. I wonder where I got caesium from.

[John Larkin]

I find the potassium salt to be bitter. I eat a few bananas a week to
get potassium, which prevents cramps.

[Jeroen Belleman]

It's the potassium that's radioactive, not the iodine.

Jeroen Belleman

[Rick C]

Or eat seafood... actually from the sea. Lots of iodine in sea fish.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

[Rick C]

Probably from the fact that Cesium is one of the elements released in radioactive waste and fallout from nuclear bombs. So you probably remember it as part of the problem rather than part of the cure.

--

Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

[Rick C]

Potassium Chloride is bitter. Many salt substitute products contain sodium chloride to improve the taste. No! Really! They aren't fully sodium free, just lower in sodium.

--

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

[Steve Wilson]

Yes, some people do find KCl to be bitter. That may not be permanent,
however, and it can change later. I found the taste to be a bit strange at
the beginning, but that went away and I now prefer it. It is much stronger
than sodium, so I had to plug seven of the eight holes in my salt shaker.

For recipies, I had to buy a scale with a resolution of 10 milligrams to
limit the dose to less than 2 grams per serving. You have to be careful
when using it. The scale registers your breath, or nearby air currents. The
scale is also handy when you need to weigh very small amounts of something.

WELLiSH Lab Scale 5000g/0.01g High Precision Digital Scale Analytical
Balance Electronic Scale for Kitchen Lab Weighing
Price: CAD $149.00
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B081V54SM2/

Whatever you do, don't buy salt free from Amazon. The markup is rediculous.

I get it from a local supermarket:

Salt Free 311gm $7.45
https://www.instacart.ca/products/17879487-salt-free-311-g

Sure, it's more expensive than sodium, but you use so little it doesn't
matter. Besides, it's healthier, and a lot cheaper than a doctor's
prescription for problems caused by sodium.

You have to be especially careful as you grow older. I'm 79, and had seven
strokes due to excessive sodium in my diet. My blood pressure skyrocketed,
I ended up losing the vision in my left eye, had a quadruple fracture of my
right leg due to falls, my right had is so numb I have trouble picking up a
spoon, I was so weak I couldn't sit up let alone stand, and I lost the use
of my legs. Try soldering something with one eye shut.

I was lucky. Many people do not survive their first stroke.

These problems were all caused by sodium. They never would have happened if
I was taking salt free instead.

[DecadentLinux...@decadence.org]

jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
news:9j64kg1kt41n8hhar...@4ax.com:

> A healthy body knows what it wants and excretes any excess.
>
>

An unhealthy mind believes utter bullshit.

Go ahead, Johnny... take 10,000 mg of Vitamin E every day for month
straight. Bump up on Copper too.

You sound like you took in a lot of Lead and your body decided it
liked it.

[Bill Martin]

On 9/15/21 12:13 AM, Robert Baer wrote:
>   Seems everyone is a liar; "unsalted" butter runs from a low of 2% to
> 10%.
>   And I really like non-existent whipped butter.
>

>   About as bad as "unsalted", "low salt", and "no salt" crackers; each
> category having a rather specific and tight range of salt.
>
>   So you may be forced to "DIY" if your doctor tells you eating foods
> with salt may severely shorten your life.
>
>

Just marketing...all marketeers must be liars, try finding the ham in
your next "hamburger"! hahah

[DecadentLinux...@decadence.org]

Bill Martin <w...@wwmartin.net> wrote in
news:shto7k$72o$1...@dont-email.me:

And when I tried to describe my scrambled egg "Egg Burger" to a
friend he was confused and asked where the meat was.

In 1950...

Q: "How many cells does it take to make a battery?"
A: "Two or more"

In 1970 and beyond...
Q: "How many cells does it take to make a battery?"
A: "What is a cell?"

I should write a book...

"The Dumbing Down of America and The World"

In the past, a child grew up learning a musical instrument and we
got folks like Mozart and more recently Gershwin and the like.

Nowadys a kid cries until Mommy let's Johnny have the toy back he
got a timeout from for hitting his sister in the head with it.

Back then, you ass would get the belt a few times and that kept
most kids in line.

Now they grow up to be mass murderers because their parents were
even more stupid than they are.

[Don Y]

On 9/15/2021 1:34 PM, Steve Wilson wrote:
> Sure, it's more expensive than sodium, but you use so little it doesn't
> matter. Besides, it's healthier, and a lot cheaper than a doctor's
> prescription for problems caused by sodium.

And the side-effects thereof.

Potassium isn't without its problems, as well. It is particularly worrisome if
you have renal problems as potassium can easily build up in the body.

I found it easier to use other flavors in place of "salt". Given a bit of
time (and consistency), you learn to appreciate those other flavors just
as well. (OTOH, having folks over for dinner can leave them... "surprised")

I'm a huge fan of garlic and onion flavors (I go through 5 lbs of onions
weekly). And, "heavier" seasonings like Garam Masala and Vindaloo Masala.
Coupling flavors, textures and temperatures across your plate can leave
your mouth "happy" with the experience.

[I went to a McDonald's some years after deciding to minimize my salt
intake. Christ, the burgers tasted like they had been coated in salt
before being cooked!]

> You have to be especially careful as you grow older. I'm 79, and had seven
> strokes due to excessive sodium in my diet. My blood pressure skyrocketed,
> I ended up losing the vision in my left eye, had a quadruple fracture of my
> right leg due to falls, my right had is so numb I have trouble picking up a
> spoon, I was so weak I couldn't sit up let alone stand, and I lost the use
> of my legs. Try soldering something with one eye shut.

Sorry to hear that. A friend recently succumbed to her third (or fourth?)
stroke. I think she just got tired of "losing things" (abilities), towards
the end.

> I was lucky. Many people do not survive their first stroke.

Heart attack being another consequence of high BP.

> These problems were all caused by sodium. They never would have happened if
> I was taking salt free instead.

"Never" is a strong word. Salt certainly exacerbated your BP but
other things can act similarly (e.g., stress, poor sleep, etc.)

Pick the easiest ones to tackle first. Getting used to eating without
that salty taste is a relatively small concession, all things considered.
(though I do miss popcorn!)

I think sugar is a tougher lift for most people. You don't realize just how
much it creeps into your flavorings, sauces, etc. Esp HFCS! Making your
own foods is one way of seeing what you're REALLY eating!

[Phil Allison]

Tom Gardner wrote:
=================

> Robert Baer:
> >> Seems everyone is a liar; "unsalted" butter runs from a low of 2% to 10%.
> >> And I really like non-existent whipped butter.
> >
> > nonsense, unsalted is ~0%, salted is ~1%
> >
> > 2-10% would be inedible
> Another spread, marmite, is 10% salt.
> Whether you consider that edible is, ahem, a matter of
> taste. Personally I like it occasionally.

** Australians have a very similar spread called Vegemite.
Made here from left over beer yeast since 1922.
One only uses a smidge on a piece of buttered toast.

A tiny jar lasts ages.


..... Phil

[Cydrome Leader]

Is fat bad again? I can't keep up with the flip-flopping on what's "good"
or "bad" according to current health fads.

Anyways, my theory about obesity in the US is the removal of lead from
gasoline. They took the lead out and boom, everybody got fat.

Surely there's some chart to back that up. It might also be smaller
airline seats and spacing make people fatter too, or monitor and TV size,
in diagonal inches of course.

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

dream gravy, https://youtu.be/wojwq-xX9uM?t=35

[Tom Gardner]

On 15/09/21 22:59, Don Y wrote:
> On 9/15/2021 1:34 PM, Steve Wilson wrote:
>> Sure, it's more expensive than sodium, but you use so little it doesn't
>> matter. Besides, it's healthier, and a lot cheaper than a doctor's
>> prescription for problems caused by sodium.
>
> And the side-effects thereof.
>
> Potassium isn't without its problems, as well.  It is particularly worrisome if
> you have renal problems as potassium can easily build up in the body.
>
> I found it easier to use other flavors in place of "salt".  Given a bit of
> time (and consistency), you learn to appreciate those other flavors just
> as well.  (OTOH, having folks over for dinner can leave them... "surprised")

Consider trying vinegar (preferably wine or cider), or
tamarind paste.

The latter is found in quite a few "world foods"[1], and
1g or less adds a pleasant sour hint to many things. But
then I'm a fan of South Indian (Kerala, Tamil Nadu) food,
which is /very/ different to most Indian (Gujarati, Bangladeshi,
Brummie) food. Basically it has just as much flavour but
with far less chilli.

> [I went to a McDonald's some years after deciding to minimize my salt
> intake.  Christ, the burgers tasted like they had been coated in salt
> before being cooked!]

That, or seeming very sweet.

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 20:51:59 -0000 (UTC),
DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:

>jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
>news:9j64kg1kt41n8hhar...@4ax.com:
>
>> A healthy body knows what it wants and excretes any excess.
>>
>>
>
> An unhealthy mind believes utter bullshit.
>
> Go ahead, Johnny... take 10,000 mg of Vitamin E every day for month
>straight. Bump up on Copper too.

Why would I do that? I don't want them.

You are still having digestive issues, we all see.

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 22:49:02 -0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
<pres...@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote:

>Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wednesday, September 15, 2021 at 10:17:42 AM UTC-7, lang...@fonz.dk wrote:
>>> onsdag den 15. september 2021 kl. 09.13.57 UTC+2 skrev Robert Baer:
>>> > Seems everyone is a liar; "unsalted" butter runs from a low of 2% to 10%.
>>> > And I really like non-existent whipped butter.
>>> nonsense, unsalted is ~0%, salted is ~1%
>>>
>>> 2-10% would be inedible
>>
>> Yes, my initial result from google seems incorrect. 1% to 2% salt is more reasonable. We avoid butter more because of the fat than salt.
>
>Is fat bad again? I can't keep up with the flip-flopping on what's "good"
>or "bad" according to current health fads.

Carbs are evil this week. Please try to keep up.

>
>Anyways, my theory about obesity in the US is the removal of lead from
>gasoline. They took the lead out and boom, everybody got fat.

Blame the internet.

[Don Y]

On 9/15/2021 4:11 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
> On 15/09/21 22:59, Don Y wrote:
>> On 9/15/2021 1:34 PM, Steve Wilson wrote:
>>> Sure, it's more expensive than sodium, but you use so little it doesn't
>>> matter. Besides, it's healthier, and a lot cheaper than a doctor's
>>> prescription for problems caused by sodium.
>>
>> And the side-effects thereof.
>>
>> Potassium isn't without its problems, as well. It is particularly worrisome if
>> you have renal problems as potassium can easily build up in the body.
>>
>> I found it easier to use other flavors in place of "salt". Given a bit of
>> time (and consistency), you learn to appreciate those other flavors just
>> as well. (OTOH, having folks over for dinner can leave them... "surprised")
>
> Consider trying vinegar (preferably wine or cider), or
> tamarind paste.

I use a lot of balsamic vinegar. It;s got a "mature" sort
of flavor that noticeably alters what it touches.

> The latter is found in quite a few "world foods"[1], and
> 1g or less adds a pleasant sour hint to many things. But
> then I'm a fan of South Indian (Kerala, Tamil Nadu) food,
> which is /very/ different to most Indian (Gujarati, Bangladeshi,
> Brummie) food. Basically it has just as much flavour but
> with far less chilli.

I use lime juice for "sour". Very fresh limes are sweet with a
touch of sour (storebought stuff is disgusting)

>> [I went to a McDonald's some years after deciding to minimize my salt
>> intake. Christ, the burgers tasted like they had been coated in salt
>> before being cooked!]
>
> That, or seeming very sweet.

I only ate a bite -- then brought them back to the store. I was
*that* convinced that they had been "made incorrectly". Yet,
I'm sure the verisame burgers eaten before my diet change
would have tasted "fine"!

We ordered BBQ a few nights ago. The BBQ sauce was sickeningly
sweet (so much so that I questioned whether I'd finish my meal).
And, the salt (and pepper!) on the steak fries made them a
huge disappointment.

As with many things (esp flavors), a light touch is usually much
better. But, you have to train your palate to appreciate them.

[I use liqueurs in many of my baked goods. Baked properly, only
a trace of the liqueur survives the oven in a viable state.
When folks eat the baked goods, the liqueur flavor/scent is
not something they expect! It wafts up the *back* of their nose
as the item is swallowed. And, as it is so fleeting, it's
gone before they've had a chance to focus on it. Just
enough of a presence to leave a lasting impression on them.]

[Robert Baer]

Phil Allison wrote:
> Robert Baer is Off with the Fairies.
> ===============================

>
>> Seems everyone is a liar; "unsalted" butter runs from a low of 2% to 10%.
>
>

> ** Total Garbage !!
>
> Even "salted butter" never exceeds 2%.
> 10% would choke a brown dog.
>
> Where does he drag this crazy crap up ?
>
>
> ....... Phil
>
>
>
Liars all over the place.

First random selection, 5 brands salted butter all have 100mg/tbsp
(14g), 4.2% which is more than TWICE what you say.
And they all have the same exact specification.

[Ed Lee]

Anything excessive is bad, and i worry about them in order of: fat, sugar, salt and lead.

[Robert Baer]

Jan Panteltje wrote:
> On a sunny day (Wed, 15 Sep 2021 00:13:48 -0700) it happened Robert Baer
> <rober...@localnet.com> wrote in
> <16a4ed70383b631e$1$1696463$e0dd...@news.thecubenet.com>:

>
>> Seems everyone is a liar; "unsalted" butter runs from a low of 2% to 10%.
>> And I really like non-existent whipped butter.
>>

>> About as bad as "unsalted", "low salt", and "no salt" crackers; each
>> category having a rather specific and tight range of salt.
>>
>> So you may be forced to "DIY" if your doctor tells you eating foods
>> with salt may severely shorten your life.
>

> Maybe take what your doctor says with a grain of salt?
> I use lots of salt in everything I cook.
> The table salt you buy here contains iodine.. helps against radiation sickness.

* FALSE! Has nothing to do with radiation sickness.
Helps in preventing goiter (classic usage).

[Phil Allison]

Robert Baer is TOTALLY Off with the Fairies.

===============================
>>
> >> Seems everyone is a liar; "unsalted" butter runs from a low of 2% to 10%.
> >
> > ** Total Garbage !!
> >
> > Even "salted butter" never exceeds 2%.
> > 10% would choke a brown dog.
> >
> > Where does he drag this crazy crap up ?
>
> >

> Liars all over the place.

** Yep including YOU.

>
> First random selection, 5 brands salted butter all have 100mg/tbsp
> (14g), 4.2% which is more than TWICE what you say.

** Huh ??

100mg = 0.1 gm = 0.7% !!!!!

Go to hell you ridiculos moron.

[Robert Baer]

Ed Lee wrote:

> On Wednesday, September 15, 2021 at 7:01:24 AM UTC-7, Ralph Mowery wrote:
>> In article <shsg2i$g8n$1...@dont-email.me>, pNaonSt...@yahoo.com
>> says...
>>>

>>>> So you may be forced to "DIY" if your doctor tells you eating foods
>>>> with salt may severely shorten your life.
>>>
>>> Maybe take what your doctor says with a grain of salt?
>>> I use lots of salt in everything I cook.
>>> The table salt you buy here contains iodine.. helps against radiation sickness.

>>> And I always buy salted butter.
>>>
>>> OTOH if you had some blood test that shows you should not take salt things may be different.
>>> But that is nit the normal.
>>> Endless media crap -to much sugar (and then they die earlier from the surrogate)
>>> No this no that,..
>>>
>>>
>>>

>> The doctor preached low salt to my wife. That put her in the hospital
>> for about a week due to low sodium. She now takes a salt pill or part
>> of one most days to keep the sodium level up.
>>
>> While it may be something about radiation, iodine has been added to salt
>> for many years because your body needs some to prevent other things that
>> makes the thyroid gland function correctly.
>

> I dug (google) it up a bit. 1 table spoon of butter has 2mg.
* FALSE! 100mg for salted butter. NOBODY seems to specify how much salt
in regular butter.

You would need to eat 500 spoons a day for 2400mg DV. I think we
should worry more about sugar than salt.
>

[Robert Baer]

Ralph Mowery wrote:
> In article <7f33223a-7905-4e64...@googlegroups.com>,
> edward....@gmail.com says...
>>
>> I dug (google) it up a bit. 1 table spoon of butter has 2mg. You would need to eat 500 spoons a day for 2400mg DV. I think we should worry more about sugar than salt.
>>
>>
>
> I don't worry about sugar or salt. I think that all the hype about
> sugar is to get people to buy into the sugar subistutes. Some of them
> are really bad for you. I just do not eat that many sweet things. My
> blood sodium is in the normal range,so I do not worry about salt.
>
> I remember the 'study' done on sacrin a number of years ago. Caused bad
> problems in mice. Bump it up to human size and it was more than a
> gallon a day every day. I doubt that anyone would ever use that much
> sacrin even in one week. Almost anyting in excess can cause problems.
>
> Just looked on ebay for a lawn mower part. A metal and plastic part for
> the pull starter. Note on it says it can cause cancer and other bad
> things in the state of California.
> What do they think people are going to do with it, eat it or breath it
> in ?
>
>
The plastic part was made with compounds in microscopic dilution
that the vested idiots in California dislike for unknown reasons.
And yes, they are afraid of another idiot eating it.
The stupido law says nothing about the damaging ergot ingested by
eating potatoes...

[Ed Lee]

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=salt+level+of+butter&btnG=Google

I guess that's just for sodium. Other type of salt?

> You would need to eat 500 spoons a day for 2400mg DV. I think we
> should worry more about sugar than salt.

24 table spoons per day is still lots of butter to eat.

[jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com]

On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 19:26:53 -0700 (PDT), Ed Lee

<edward....@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, September 15, 2021 at 4:32:53 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 22:49:02 -0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
>> <pres...@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> On Wednesday, September 15, 2021 at 10:17:42 AM UTC-7, lang...@fonz.dk wrote:
>> >>> onsdag den 15. september 2021 kl. 09.13.57 UTC+2 skrev Robert Baer:
>> >>> > Seems everyone is a liar; "unsalted" butter runs from a low of 2% to 10%.
>> >>> > And I really like non-existent whipped butter.
>> >>> nonsense, unsalted is ~0%, salted is ~1%
>> >>>
>> >>> 2-10% would be inedible
>> >>
>> >> Yes, my initial result from google seems incorrect. 1% to 2% salt is more reasonable. We avoid butter more because of the fat than salt.
>> >
>> >Is fat bad again? I can't keep up with the flip-flopping on what's "good"
>> >or "bad" according to current health fads.
>> Carbs are evil this week. Please try to keep up.
>> >
>> >Anyways, my theory about obesity in the US is the removal of lead from
>> >gasoline. They took the lead out and boom, everybody got fat.
>> Blame the internet.
>
>Anything excessive is bad, and i worry about them in order of: fat, sugar, salt and lead.

I don't worry. Life is better without worrying.



--

Father Brown's figure remained quite dark and still;
but in that instant he had lost his head. His head was
always most valuable when he had lost it.

[Robert Baer]

Fred Bloggs wrote:

> On Wednesday, September 15, 2021 at 3:13:57 AM UTC-4, Robert Baer wrote:
>> Seems everyone is a liar; "unsalted" butter runs from a low of 2% to 10%.
>> And I really like non-existent whipped butter.
>>

>> About as bad as "unsalted", "low salt", and "no salt" crackers; each
>> category having a rather specific and tight range of salt.
>>

>> So you may be forced to "DIY" if your doctor tells you eating foods
>> with salt may severely shorten your life.
>

> "Unsalted Butter has no added salt"
> https://www.landolakes.com/products/butter-spreads/unsalted-butter/
* Seems to be a nutritional 404. I have seen a number of complaints on
the web that nobody carries that particular brand - some seem pissed as
if they were subjected to a bait-and-switch scheme.

>
> If the nutritional analysis lists sodium then it must be naturally occurring in the milk.
* That makes sense, but where the heck does one find reasonably reliable
data?

>
>>
>>
>> --
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 10:59:38 -0400, Ralph Mowery
<rmow...@charter.net> wrote:

>Just looked on ebay for a lawn mower part. A metal and plastic part for
>the pull starter. Note on it says it can cause cancer and other bad
>things in the state of California.
>What do they think people are going to do with it, eat it or breath it
>in ?

No, we don't eat lawn mower parts. "Exposure" can include just
touching it. The problem is not that various chemicals are "known to
the State of California to cause cancer or reproductive toxicity". The
problem is that a manufacturer of any product can be sued if they
failed to warn consumers that their product might cause cancer, no
matter the amounts involved and what the consumer does with the
product. However, if the consumer is duly warned, the company has
done it's duty under California Prop 65 and is indemnified from
potential lawsuits (unless there is evidence of negligence).
Predictably, companies will add a Prop 65 warning to EVERYTHING that
they manufacture in an effort to ward off litigation and professional
plaintiffs:
<https://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancer-causes/general-info/cancer-warning-labels-based-on-californias-proposition-65.html>

Try the listed chemicals search in the middle of the page.
<https://www.p65warnings.ca.gov/>
The handle on the lawn mower pull starter is made from plastic, which
is derived from petroleum.
<https://www.p65warnings.ca.gov/products/petroleum-products>
"WARNING: Crude oil, gasoline, diesel fuel and other petroleum
products can expose you to chemicals including toluene and benzene,
which are known to the State of California to cause cancer and birth
defects or other reproductive harm."

Prop 65 Warning: This message can expose you to words with more then
three syllables, which are known to the state of California to cause
cancer of the vocabulary. You have been warned.

--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[Robert Baer]

jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 00:13:48 -0700, Robert Baer

> <rober...@localnet.com> wrote:
>
>> Seems everyone is a liar; "unsalted" butter runs from a low of 2% to 10%.
>> And I really like non-existent whipped butter.
>

> "Unsalted" means they didn't add salt to what the cows donated. That's
> not the same as "salt-free."

* BUT there is NO SALT butter, and the ingredients list IF it lists
sodium, eXplicitly states zero mg / zero DV.
Some NO SALT butters do not list sodium as an ingredient.

>
> Best to not eat butter if you are endangered by salt.
>
> The soft Kerrygold butter is great for buttering bagels. It's all cow
> stuff; some soft butters are full of weird greases.
>
>>

>> About as bad as "unsalted", "low salt", and "no salt" crackers; each
>> category having a rather specific and tight range of salt.
>>
>> So you may be forced to "DIY" if your doctor tells you eating foods
>> with salt may severely shorten your life.
>

[Robert Baer]

Fred Bloggs wrote:

> On Wednesday, September 15, 2021 at 3:13:57 AM UTC-4, Robert Baer wrote:
>> Seems everyone is a liar; "unsalted" butter runs from a low of 2% to 10%.
>> And I really like non-existent whipped butter.
>>

>> About as bad as "unsalted", "low salt", and "no salt" crackers; each
>> category having a rather specific and tight range of salt.
>>
>> So you may be forced to "DIY" if your doctor tells you eating foods
>> with salt may severely shorten your life.
>

> I thought so:
> http://www.dietandfitnesstoday.com/sodium-in-whole-milk.php
* WOW!
Eat all the SALTED butter you want!

[Robert Baer]

jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 07:34:57 -0700 (PDT), Ed Lee
> <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, September 15, 2021 at 7:26:16 AM UTC-7, Ed Lee wrote:

>>> On Wednesday, September 15, 2021 at 7:25:09 AM UTC-7, Ed Lee wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, September 15, 2021 at 7:01:24 AM UTC-7, Ralph Mowery wrote:
>>>>> In article <shsg2i$g8n$1...@dont-email.me>, pNaonSt...@yahoo.com
>>>>> says...
>>>>>>

>>>>>>> So you may be forced to "DIY" if your doctor tells you eating foods
>>>>>>> with salt may severely shorten your life.
>>>>>>

>>>>>> Maybe take what your doctor says with a grain of salt?
>>>>>> I use lots of salt in everything I cook.
>>>>>> The table salt you buy here contains iodine.. helps against radiation sickness.
>>>>>> And I always buy salted butter.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> OTOH if you had some blood test that shows you should not take salt things may be different.
>>>>>> But that is nit the normal.
>>>>>> Endless media crap -to much sugar (and then they die earlier from the surrogate)
>>>>>> No this no that,..
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> The doctor preached low salt to my wife. That put her in the hospital
>>>>> for about a week due to low sodium. She now takes a salt pill or part
>>>>> of one most days to keep the sodium level up.
>>>>>
>>>>> While it may be something about radiation, iodine has been added to salt
>>>>> for many years because your body needs some to prevent other things that
>>>>> makes the thyroid gland function correctly.

>>>> I dug (google) it up a bit. 1 table spoon of butter has 2mg. You would need to eat 500 spoons a day for 2400mg DV. I think we should worry more about sugar than salt.
>>> 1200 spoons
>> That might not be right. It should be around 50 to 100 spoons, or 1% to 2% DV. Still, sugar is more a problem than salt.

>
> A healthy body knows what it wants and excretes any excess.

* NOT TRUE. Idiot.
>
>
>

[jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com]

Wow, obnoxious and content-free. Maybe you're unhealthy and that's
making you nasty.

Think about it: why would we evolve any other way?

We just need to read the ingredient labels and make sure some
industrial food chemists aren't fooling our natural tastes.

[Tom Gardner]

Evolution is imperfect; look at how our eyes are put together.

Reproduction is imperfect: lookup "congenital conditions".

While the body will regulate its serum K and Na, that is
imperfect: lookup hypo/hyper kalaemia/natremia.

> We just need to read the ingredient labels and make sure some
> industrial food chemists aren't fooling our natural tastes.

Not sufficient.

[Don Y]

On 9/16/2021 12:24 AM, Tom Gardner wrote:
>> We just need to read the ingredient labels and make sure some
>> industrial food chemists aren't fooling our natural tastes.
>
> Not sufficient.

Belladonna berries are sweet/palatable. Eat a handful and take a
nap! A very LONG nap.

I guess whoever designed the plant was a nasty "industrial food chemist"!

[Tom Gardner]

On 16/09/21 01:12, Don Y wrote:
> On 9/15/2021 4:11 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:

>> Consider trying vinegar (preferably wine or cider), or
>> tamarind paste.
>
> I use a lot of balsamic vinegar.  It;s got a "mature" sort
> of flavor that noticeably alters what it touches.

Ah, the yuppie version of "sweet and sour" :)

I use it occasionally; there is a lot of variation between
brands.

>> The latter is found in quite a few "world foods"[1], and
>> 1g or less adds a pleasant sour hint to many things. But
>> then I'm a fan of South Indian (Kerala, Tamil Nadu) food,
>> which is /very/ different to most Indian (Gujarati, Bangladeshi,
>> Brummie) food. Basically it has just as much flavour but
>> with far less chilli.
>
> I use lime juice for "sour".  Very fresh limes are sweet with a
> touch of sour (storebought stuff is disgusting)

I use limes too, they are the same as vinegar in a
way that tamarind isn't :)

Tamarind is also subtle and complex.

> As with many things (esp flavors), a light touch is usually much
> better.  But, you have to train your palate to appreciate them.

People become habituated to a particular level of flavour,
and that can change over time. Consider chilli; I've seen
people consider tabasco weak!

[Don Y]

On 9/16/2021 12:30 AM, Tom Gardner wrote:
> On 16/09/21 01:12, Don Y wrote:
>> On 9/15/2021 4:11 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
>
>>> Consider trying vinegar (preferably wine or cider), or
>>> tamarind paste.
>>
>> I use a lot of balsamic vinegar. It;s got a "mature" sort
>> of flavor that noticeably alters what it touches.
>
> Ah, the yuppie version of "sweet and sour" :)
>
> I use it occasionally; there is a lot of variation between
> brands.

Yes, definitely. I use a lot of it in salads (a simple
BALSAMIC vinaigrette -- avoids all the "creamy" dressings
that are so common).

OTOH, I use red wine/garlic vinegar in my meatloaf Rx as the
balsamic biases the tomato flavor in undesirable ways.

>>> The latter is found in quite a few "world foods"[1], and
>>> 1g or less adds a pleasant sour hint to many things. But
>>> then I'm a fan of South Indian (Kerala, Tamil Nadu) food,
>>> which is /very/ different to most Indian (Gujarati, Bangladeshi,
>>> Brummie) food. Basically it has just as much flavour but
>>> with far less chilli.
>>
>> I use lime juice for "sour". Very fresh limes are sweet with a
>> touch of sour (storebought stuff is disgusting)
>
> I use limes too, they are the same as vinegar in a
> way that tamarind isn't :)
>
> Tamarind is also subtle and complex.

We grow them so can harvest when they are appropriately sweet
(instead of the yuck that you find in stores). Likewise with
lemons (which, when ripe, taste like lemon-flavored sugar water
instead of the tart flavor of store-bought).

>> As with many things (esp flavors), a light touch is usually much
>> better. But, you have to train your palate to appreciate them.
>
> People become habituated to a particular level of flavour,
> and that can change over time. Consider chilli; I've seen
> people consider tabasco weak!

Yes, my F-in-L loved heat. His garden evolved from a general
garden to just scores of (hot) peppers. He'd eat a bowl of
them with olive oil and garlic just before bed. Then, wake
an hour or two later looking for pepto-bismol!

It's best to train your palate on subtle flavors so you can
later appreciate them -- without having to resort to massive
levels of flavor (that would turn off other "guests"). Things
like cilantro don't make sense in massive doses -- yet are
delightful in moderation (if you can perceive it).

Unless, of course, you can adjust doses on a per-person basis.

[Clive Arthur]

On 16/09/2021 04:42, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

<snip>

>>> A healthy body knows what it wants and excretes any excess.

> Think about it: why would we evolve any other way?

We evolved to like sugar and salt long before you could buy bags of same
from the grocer's. Now they're ubiquitous we consume too much.

--
Cheers
Clive

[DecadentLinux...@decadence.org]

Clive Arthur <cl...@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote in
news:shutf5$ev1$1...@dont-email.me:

And our bodies do NOT "excrete any excess". Much less "other than
what it knows it wants". And even less so "a healthy body" is if a
person healing from an affliction no longer "excretes".

That has to be one of the most stupid things he has said in a while.

Why would I expect his participation in the group to evolve any other
way?

[jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com]

Mammalian eyes are great. We would not have selected inferior eyes.

>
>Reproduction is imperfect: lookup "congenital conditions".
>
>While the body will regulate its serum K and Na, that is
>imperfect: lookup hypo/hyper kalaemia/natremia.

Some people have kidney problems and need to deliberately regulate
salt intake. Most people do it automatically.

And most people don't believe in evolution.

>
>
>> We just need to read the ingredient labels and make sure some
>> industrial food chemists aren't fooling our natural tastes.
>
>Not sufficient.

Lots of people survived before there were food labels.

[jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com]

Some people had unlimited access to salt, and their tribes didn't die
out.

Most people have distinct taste limits for too salty and not salty
enough, and those are naturally about right.

There are, of course, multiple conflicting studies about salt intake
vs mortality. I figure, relax and give your body what it wants.

[Don Y]

On 9/16/2021 12:58 AM, Clive Arthur wrote:
> We evolved to like sugar and salt long before you could buy bags of same from
> the grocer's. Now they're ubiquitous we consume too much.

Actually, sugar and fat were typically hard to come by "in the
wild". So, our bodies are particularly driven to acquire those
when encountered. Sugar (fruits) gave our ancestors "quick energy"
as well as helped them store fat -- for periods when "calories"
weren't readily accessible.

This is why baked goods tend to be so hard for folks to deal with -- fat
and sugar in the same bite.

Left to their own devices, the health and mortality of most people
would suffer from over-indulgences in some foods ("No desert before
you finish your meal!") and avoidances of others ("Eat your brocolli!")

IIRC, I think the "average" US citizen consumes upwards of 7Tbsp of sugar
per *day*. Go get the sugar bowl and spoon 7T out into a bowl to get an
idea of just how much that is!

I would gladly binge on ice cream until there was no more. It's
only the higher functions of my brain that tell me this is not
a good idea. (It's also one of the primary reasons why I've not
purchased an ice cream maker with active refrigeration!)

[Jeroen Belleman]

On 2021-09-16 16:35, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
[...

>
> And most people don't believe in evolution.
>

What?? In what backward part of the world is that?

Jeroen Belleman

[John Larkin]

Right here, and often.

Wouldn't there be natural selection to make people not want to eat
lethal amounts of salt?

Would natural selection select for an amazing complex and inferior
eye?

>Jeroen Belleman
--

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
Francis Bacon

[Jeroen Belleman]

On 2021-09-16 20:57, John Larkin wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 19:57:37 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
> <jer...@nospam.please> wrote:
>
>> On 2021-09-16 16:35, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>> [...
>>>
>>> And most people don't believe in evolution.
>>>
>>
>> What?? In what backward part of the world is that?
>>
>
> Right here, and often.
>
> Wouldn't there be natural selection to make people not want to eat
> lethal amounts of salt?

Since most who die by eating too much salt only do so after the
end of their reproductive age, there is little evolutionary
pressure in that direction.

>
> Would natural selection select for an amazing complex and inferior
> eye?

Evidently, yes. Nature did better in some other beasts. Evolution
builds on what sort-of worked before, even where a conscious
designer could have imagined better ways. There are plenty of
features in animals that look like blunders to an engineer.

Jeroen Belleman

[John Larkin]

On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 21:25:36 +0200, Jeroen Belleman

<jer...@nospam.please> wrote:

>On 2021-09-16 20:57, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 19:57:37 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
>> <jer...@nospam.please> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2021-09-16 16:35, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>> [...
>>>>
>>>> And most people don't believe in evolution.
>>>>
>>>
>>> What?? In what backward part of the world is that?
>>>
>>
>> Right here, and often.
>>
>> Wouldn't there be natural selection to make people not want to eat
>> lethal amounts of salt?
>
>Since most who die by eating too much salt only do so after the
>end of their reproductive age, there is little evolutionary
>pressure in that direction.

Since old folk take up room and consume resources, evolution should
kill them off after they stop reproducing. It follows that men live
longer than women.

I told you that most people don't believe in evolution.

>
>>
>> Would natural selection select for an amazing complex and inferior
>> eye?
>
>Evidently, yes. Nature did better in some other beasts. Evolution
>builds on what sort-of worked before, even where a conscious
>designer could have imagined better ways. There are plenty of
>features in animals that look like blunders to an engineer.

Yup, look like blunders to an engineer.


>
>Jeroen Belleman

[Tom Gardner]

On 16/09/21 16:22, Don Y wrote:
> On 9/16/2021 12:58 AM, Clive Arthur wrote:
>> We evolved to like sugar and salt long before you could buy bags of same from
>> the grocer's.  Now they're ubiquitous we consume too much.
>
> Actually, sugar and fat were typically hard to come by "in the
> wild".  So, our bodies are particularly driven to acquire those
> when encountered.  Sugar (fruits) gave our ancestors "quick energy"
> as well as helped them store fat -- for periods when "calories"
> weren't readily accessible.
>
> This is why baked goods tend to be so hard for folks to deal with -- fat
> and sugar in the same bite.
>
> Left to their own devices, the health and mortality of most people
> would suffer from over-indulgences in some foods ("No desert before
> you finish your meal!") and avoidances of others ("Eat your brocolli!")
>
> IIRC, I think the "average" US citizen consumes upwards of 7Tbsp of sugar
> per *day*.  Go get the sugar bowl and spoon 7T out into a bowl to get an
> idea of just how much that is!

One 330ml can of Coca Cola contains ~35g of sugar!
That's roughly 7tsp or nearly 2 Tbsp.

> I would gladly binge on ice cream until there was no more.  It's
> only the higher functions of my brain that tell me this is not
> a good idea.  (It's also one of the primary reasons why I've not
> purchased an ice cream maker with active refrigeration!)

Daughter makes ice cream. Her lemon and garden mint won an award.

[Jeroen Belleman]

On 2021-09-16 22:08, John Larkin wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 21:25:36 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
> <jer...@nospam.please> wrote:
>
>> On 2021-09-16 20:57, John Larkin wrote:
>>> On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 19:57:37 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
>>> <jer...@nospam.please> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2021-09-16 16:35, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>>> [...
>>>>>
>>>>> And most people don't believe in evolution.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What?? In what backward part of the world is that?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Right here, and often.
>>>
>>> Wouldn't there be natural selection to make people not want to eat
>>> lethal amounts of salt?
>>
>> Since most who die by eating too much salt only do so after the
>> end of their reproductive age, there is little evolutionary
>> pressure in that direction.
>
>
> Since old folk take up room and consume resources, evolution should
> kill them off after they stop reproducing. It follows that men live
> longer than women.
>
> I told you that most people don't believe in evolution.

OK, stop pulling my leg, will you?

Jeroen Belleman

[Don Y]

On 9/16/2021 1:25 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
> On 16/09/21 16:22, Don Y wrote:
>> On 9/16/2021 12:58 AM, Clive Arthur wrote:
>>> We evolved to like sugar and salt long before you could buy bags of same
>>> from the grocer's. Now they're ubiquitous we consume too much.
>>
>> Actually, sugar and fat were typically hard to come by "in the
>> wild". So, our bodies are particularly driven to acquire those
>> when encountered. Sugar (fruits) gave our ancestors "quick energy"
>> as well as helped them store fat -- for periods when "calories"
>> weren't readily accessible.
>>
>> This is why baked goods tend to be so hard for folks to deal with -- fat
>> and sugar in the same bite.
>>
>> Left to their own devices, the health and mortality of most people
>> would suffer from over-indulgences in some foods ("No desert before
>> you finish your meal!") and avoidances of others ("Eat your brocolli!")
>>
>> IIRC, I think the "average" US citizen consumes upwards of 7Tbsp of sugar
>> per *day*. Go get the sugar bowl and spoon 7T out into a bowl to get an
>> idea of just how much that is!
>
> One 330ml can of Coca Cola contains ~35g of sugar!
> That's roughly 7tsp or nearly 2 Tbsp.

Yup. But even things that you don't naturally think of as "sweet"
(in the sense of "sugary") have loads of sugar.

The Cardiologists' Diet: If it tastes good, spit it out!

>> I would gladly binge on ice cream until there was no more. It's
>> only the higher functions of my brain that tell me this is not
>> a good idea. (It's also one of the primary reasons why I've not
>> purchased an ice cream maker with active refrigeration!)
>
> Daughter makes ice cream. Her lemon and garden mint won an award.

I've made lemon and lime gelatos using fresh fruit. A bit too tart
for me.

I'm a big fan of almond so Almond Chocolate Chip with Almonds is
a hit. But, hard on the teeth (the frozen chips and natural almonds).
Some day, I'll make it alongside my "blue cookies" (blue is the
pseudo-color-code I've associated with almond flavor) The cookies
are beyond disgusting in terms of sweetness and flavor intensity
and amusing to watch others come to that realization -- as they grab
a few more *handfuls* and then physically distance themselves
from the plate lest they succumb to yet-another-handful!

I'm not fond of fruit-based, in general, as it's usually more work
getting/reducing the fruit before folding it in. It's hard to get
really intense fruit flavors (e.g., black raspberry) without
processing/condensing the fruit.

My "go to" flavor is Butter Pecan... a quarter pound of butter in
a 3 pint batch of gelato. It's disgusting. You can taste the fat
on your lips as you're shoveling it in! Salt the pecans as you
sautee them in the butter for an extra dash of flavor when you
bite into one.

SWMBO is annoyed that I lose weight (literally and provably)
when pigging out on the stuff...

[DecadentLinux...@decadence.org]

Jeroen Belleman <jer...@nospam.please> wrote in news:si05ng$1lb$1
@gioia.aioe.org:

An Owl's eyes do not move in their head, but they have remarkable
vision and tracking capacity.

An eagle could read a newspaper from 50 yards away. Tiny eyes yet
way more rods and cones per sq mm than we have Put a lens in front
of it and a brain behind it and VOILA!

God really did some great stuff before he let it all go to pot. ;-)

[Phil Allison]

DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:

==============================

>
> An eagle could read a newspaper from 50 yards away.

** ROTFL !!!

Goes along with crazy stories of spy satellites reading newspapers and vehicle plates from space.



...... Phil

[DecadentLinux...@decadence.org]

John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
news:iq87kghopf602vofm...@4ax.com:

> On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 21:25:36 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
> <jer...@nospam.please> wrote:
>
>>On 2021-09-16 20:57, John Larkin wrote:
>>> On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 19:57:37 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
>>> <jer...@nospam.please> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2021-09-16 16:35, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>>> [...
>>>>>
>>>>> And most people don't believe in evolution.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What?? In what backward part of the world is that?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Right here, and often.
>>>
>>> Wouldn't there be natural selection to make people not want to
eat
>>> lethal amounts of salt?
>>
>>Since most who die by eating too much salt only do so after the
>>end of their reproductive age, there is little evolutionary
>>pressure in that direction.
>
>
> Since old folk take up room and consume resources, evolution should
> kill them off after they stop reproducing. It follows that men live
> longer than women.

> I told you that most people don't believe in evolution.

Whatever, Johnny "Stat Man" Larkin.

>>> Would natural selection select for an amazing complex and
inferior
>>> eye?
>>
>>Evidently, yes. Nature did better in some other beasts. Evolution
>>builds on what sort-of worked before, even where a conscious
>>designer could have imagined better ways. There are plenty of
>>features in animals that look like blunders to an engineer.
>
> Yup, look like blunders to an engineer.

Nothing about this guy is a blunder...
I wish there were still big ones around...

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJi61NAIsjs>

[John Larkin]

On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 17:13:58 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
<palli...@gmail.com> wrote:

> DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
>
>==============================
>>
>> An eagle could read a newspaper from 50 yards away.

Avian Times.

[DecadentLinux...@decadence.org]

Phil Allison <palli...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:10544f89-b36a-4e03...@googlegroups.com:

> DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
>
> ==============================
>>
>> An eagle could read a newspaper from 50 yards away.
>
>
> ** ROTFL !!!

Not even a correct acronym. It always was and still is ROFL. No
need for the T, puTz. Only idiots like you tried to morph it. Did
that make you feel special?

> Goes along with crazy stories of spy satellites reading newspapers
> and vehicle plates from space.
>

A quote:

And while most humans have 20/20 vision, eagles are blessed with an
astounding 20/5 vision. That means that what looks sharp and clear to
us at 5 feet is just as clear to an eagle from 20 feet away. No
wonder we use the term “eagle eyes” to describe superb vision.


Ol' Phil has always been dumb, but this senility thing really has
him saying some stupid shit.

[Phil Allison]

DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:

==========================

> >>
> >> An eagle could read a newspaper from 50 yards away.
> >
> >
> > ** ROTFL !!!

> Not even a correct acronym.

** Yes it is.

> > Goes along with crazy stories of spy satellites reading newspapers
> > and vehicle plates from space.
> >
> A quote:
>
> And while most humans have 20/20 vision, eagles are blessed with an
> astounding 20/5 vision. That means that what looks sharp and clear to
> us at 5 feet is just as clear to an eagle from 20 feet away.
>

** Back my simple point up perfectly.
Thankyou.


..... Phil

[Cydrome Leader]

John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 22:49:02 -0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
> <pres...@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote:
>
>>Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:

>>> On Wednesday, September 15, 2021 at 10:17:42 AM UTC-7, lang...@fonz.dk wrote:

>>>> onsdag den 15. september 2021 kl. 09.13.57 UTC+2 skrev Robert Baer:
>>>> > Seems everyone is a liar; "unsalted" butter runs from a low of 2% to 10%.
>>>> > And I really like non-existent whipped butter.

>>>> nonsense, unsalted is ~0%, salted is ~1%
>>>>
>>>> 2-10% would be inedible
>>>
>>> Yes, my initial result from google seems incorrect. 1% to 2% salt is more reasonable. We avoid butter more because of the fat than salt.
>>
>>Is fat bad again? I can't keep up with the flip-flopping on what's "good"
>>or "bad" according to current health fads.
>
> Carbs are evil this week. Please try to keep up.

Duh, forgot about the carbs thing. I though it might have still be sugar
is the enemy time. I have yet to meet a "refined sugar is bad!!!" person
who can explain ANY steps in the sugar refining process.

The clue levels about sugar a really quite bad. Nobody seems to understand
traditional "brown sugar" is a just white sugar with the hog feed added
back to it. It's not raw sugar and not a "natural" product by any measure.

My absolute favorite was the 1980s "zen diet" where peopel starved to
death eating nothing but trash like brown rice.

[Cydrome Leader]

owls and eagles also have the intelligence of a doorknob. They also don't
seem to ever play or have fun, like other birds. Check with a local
ornithologist or raptor expert if you don't believe me.

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 17 Sep 2021 19:43:48 -0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader

<pres...@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote:

>John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 22:49:02 -0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
>> <pres...@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, September 15, 2021 at 10:17:42 AM UTC-7, lang...@fonz.dk wrote:
>>>>> onsdag den 15. september 2021 kl. 09.13.57 UTC+2 skrev Robert Baer:
>>>>> > Seems everyone is a liar; "unsalted" butter runs from a low of 2% to 10%.
>>>>> > And I really like non-existent whipped butter.
>>>>> nonsense, unsalted is ~0%, salted is ~1%
>>>>>
>>>>> 2-10% would be inedible
>>>>
>>>> Yes, my initial result from google seems incorrect. 1% to 2% salt is more reasonable. We avoid butter more because of the fat than salt.
>>>
>>>Is fat bad again? I can't keep up with the flip-flopping on what's "good"
>>>or "bad" according to current health fads.
>>
>> Carbs are evil this week. Please try to keep up.
>
>Duh, forgot about the carbs thing. I though it might have still be sugar
>is the enemy time. I have yet to meet a "refined sugar is bad!!!" person
>who can explain ANY steps in the sugar refining process.

My daddy-in-law (well, one of them) was a cajun cane farmer and owned
a share in a co-op processing plant.

The juice is squeezed out of the cane, crystallized, and spun in a
gigantic perforated centrifugal drum, where hot water is sprayed to
remove the molasses. That's done a few times until it's white.

We could fill up buckets with the first stage crystals, light brown,
what you can pay extra for at Safeway as "Turbinado sugar." They
managed that with bulldozers.

>
>The clue levels about sugar a really quite bad. Nobody seems to understand
>traditional "brown sugar" is a just white sugar with the hog feed added
>back to it. It's not raw sugar and not a "natural" product by any measure.

Yes, brown sugar has extra molasses added back in.

The cows loved molasses on their hay.

>
>My absolute favorite was the 1980s "zen diet" where peopel starved to
>death eating nothing but trash like brown rice.

Morons here have killed their dogs by feeding them veggie diets.

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

and kids

humans and dogs can with effort survive without meat, it is cats that
are obligate carnivores

[DecadentLinux...@decadence.org]

Cydrome Leader <pres...@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote in
news:si2r5k$ga1$1...@reader1.panix.com:

> My absolute favorite was the 1980s "zen diet" where peopel starved
> to death eating nothing but trash like brown rice.
>

Macro-biotic it was called, IIRC.

A famous brain surgeon was diagnosed with bone cancer and it was
running rampant down his spine.

He went 100% macro-biotic and it cleared out and he survived.
That does not mean that it works for everyone.

[Joe Gwinn]

On Fri, 17 Sep 2021 13:10:28 -0700, John Larkin

Right. Carnivore.

I have a war story from the 1970s:

Some friends of mine from college lived in a commune in Baltimore.
They bought into the Zen theory that brown rice was the perfect food,
and were living off of a 50# bag of it. It's very cheap. It's
amazing how many ways one can use brown rice - I had them all over
time. I like brown rice, but not *that* well.

Anyway, a semi-girlfriend of mine lived there as well, and my solution
was to feed her a steak from time to time, until the madness lifted.
It doesn't take all that much meat to solve the problem.

Eventually, the commune's main priest of brown rice collapsed one day
from malnutrition, and ended up in the hospital. He did recover, but
the cult of brown rice did not. And they were only halfway through
that 50# bag. Don't know what happened to it. The rats probably
loved it.

Joe Gwinn

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 17 Sep 2021 18:02:31 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joeg...@comcast.net>

Yeah, a girl needs a big bloody burger now and then.

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

needs to replace the iron lost and an easy way to get it is to eat meat

[legg]

On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 00:13:48 -0700, Robert Baer
<rober...@localnet.com> wrote:

> Seems everyone is a liar; "unsalted" butter runs from a low of 2% to 10%.
> And I really like non-existent whipped butter.
>

> About as bad as "unsalted", "low salt", and "no salt" crackers; each
>category having a rather specific and tight range of salt.

>
> So you may be forced to "DIY" if your doctor tells you eating foods
>with salt may severely shorten your life.

Unsalted butter is a cooking/baking ingredient, as opposed to
'normal' butter, which has salt, traditionally to extend its shelf
life for shipping long distances. Reduces spoilage and cost of
storage.
People got used to the taste, so it became a defacto standard, some
time in the 19th century. . . . .

RL

[Joe Gwinn]

That too, but there is more to it than that. If they had beans always
with the rice, it would have taken far longer for the priest to
collapse.

Joe Gwinn

[Tom Gardner]

B12 deficiency would have caused CNS and brain neuropathy,
but only after several years. The liver stores a lot of B12.

The workaround in vegans in third world countries is to
unwittingly eat shit, e.g. living with animals and using
dung as a fuel.

ISTR we produce B12 in our lower intestine, but can only
absorb it in the upper intestine. Many animals are copraphagous;
I wonder if that mechanism is a reason.

[Cydrome Leader]

Glad somebody else has heard of this brown rice diet nonsense. There isn't
really anything about it on the internet last time I looked.

Any idea what started this fad?

[DecadentLinux...@decadence.org]

Cydrome Leader <pres...@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote in

news:si6cff$oik$2...@reader1.panix.com:

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macrobiotic_diet>

[Joe Gwinn]

Could be. I assume that the B12 is made by bacteria in the bowel.

Joe Gwinn

[Rick C]

There's some irony in that story. You tell it as if the commune got malnutrition from eating a single 50 lb bag of rice. I don't know how many people you are talking about, but it would be hard for even a single person to suffer any ill effects from eating 50 lbs of rice unless that was literally the only food eaten. For certain all the protein required is in rice. This is the usual rant about eating vegetarian, you *must* eat meat for protein which is pure BS.

There are a few nutrients that are hard to get from vegetable sources, B12 being the main one. If B12 supplements are taken the rest is pretty much duck soup. As we any food source, a bit of variety goes a long way. Eating nothing but steak and potatoes is not a very good way to live either. I know someone who does that. I'm amazed he is still alive.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

[Tom Gardner]

I believe so, but have never bothered to chase down solid
references to human physiology in this respect.

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

afaict you need to eat about 2kg rice per day to get your daily protein ...

[Tom Gardner]

It is, apparently, a bit light on lysine. As with any analysis,
a useful question is "how much would I have to eat to get the RDA.

> This is the usual rant about eating vegetarian, you *must* eat meat
> for protein which is pure BS.
>
> There are a few nutrients that are hard to get from vegetable sources, B12
> being the main one.

Calcium is the other one, but supplements are easy and vegan.
Unfortunately many vegans have a doctrinaire belief that
chemical supplements are evil.

> If B12 supplements are taken the rest is pretty much
> duck soup. As we any food source, a bit of variety goes a long way. Eating
> nothing but steak and potatoes is not a very good way to live either. I know
> someone who does that. I'm amazed he is still alive.

Yes, but look at the eskimo diet!

[Don Y]

On 9/19/2021 12:38 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
> Calcium is the other one, but supplements are easy and vegan.
> Unfortunately many vegans have a doctrinaire belief that
> chemical supplements are evil.

One problem is all the different "denominations" (pun intended)
of vegetarian-ists (if vegetarianists eat vegetables, do methodists
eat methods? and what about baptists? what the hell is a "bapt"???).
Animal products, eggs, etc.

Those that I've met with/socialized with/worked with have a couple
of things in common:
- all very thin (almost to the point of appearing emaciated)
- as with the above, don't appear "robust"
- eat CONTINUOUSLY
- are often cold (i.e., complain that the heat should be on in the summer!)

A woman at one of the nonprofits with which I'm affiliated keeps her
office door closed so the heat from her space heater doesn't leak
out! (this when ambient is close to 90F). You can hear the
microwave running pretty regularly as she heats up one course
after another throughout the day!

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <c5333ae9-e7bf-4951...@googlegroups.com>,
lang...@fonz.dk says...

>
> afaict you need to eat about 2kg rice per day to get your daily protein ...
>
>
>
>

That is a lot of rice to eat in one day.

[Joe Gwinn]

There were about ten of them, and yes they were all working on that
one large bag of rice, which was their main source of nutrition.

> This is the usual rant about eating vegetarian, you *must* eat meat for protein which is pure BS.

While one can manage to eat only vegetables, it is very hard to do, as
Martin points out.

The Mexican peasant diet is instructive. It is based on rice and
beans, with lots of vegetable, plus a few ounces of meat per day. That
meat is essential. And peasants cannot afford the vegan alternatives.

>There are a few nutrients that are hard to get from vegetable sources, B12 being the main one. If B12 supplements are taken the rest is pretty much duck soup.

If they had also been eating duck soup, there would have been no
problem, at least not soon. I bet duck liver would solve the B12
problem, and maybe the C problem.


> As [with] any food source, a bit of variety goes a long way. Eating nothing but steak and potatoes is not a very good way to live either. I know someone who does that. I'm amazed he is still alive.

Yes. But as Martin says, consider the traditional Eskimo diet, upon
which the Eskimo have lived for many tens of millennia.

The story that got me was the observation (from The Book of the
Eskimo, if memory serves) that after six or twelve months in the
Arctic, a dessert of blueberries with seal fat starts looking pretty
good.

Joe Gwinn

[Rick C]

And in those 2 kg you will get the correct amount of calories, ~2000. How may kg of food do you eat per day?

50 lbs of dry rice is a lot more lbs cooked, but it would last a person something like 2 or 3 months, a group just a couple of weeks. There are not many dietary diseases that would manifest that quickly. Scurvy comes to mind. Know of any that might put you in the hospital?

--

Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209