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pointers to transistor (semiconductor) curve tracer circuits/projects
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jjhu...@gmail.com
Oct 28, 2018, 8:46:48 PM10/28/18
to
I find myself in a situation where I am repairing some high end audio amps and cassette decks that have house numbered semiconductors, mainly transistors as well as JDEC p/n that are NLA.
I have found a few transistors that are dead and need to be replaced. Fortunately, they are in parts of the amp where the other channel has an identical transistor.
Having one transistor as a base will allow me to match something close to the original.
I have made (in the past) the typical transistor curve tracer that shows the curves on a scope - cute but not precise enough for my intentions. I am more interested in a lab type instrument.
Basically what I am looking for is a curve tracer that has a micro attached to it that have some A/D's on them that can record the data of interest (e.g. Ib (vb), Vce, etc.
I've considered an arduino based approach but they have the limitations of 5V max on the input for the A/Ds and don't want to scale it.
I've looked for old Heathkit and Tek curve tracers that I could augment with a micro but they seem to be very scarce, in addition to having transistors in them that are NLA.
I could design one myself but in all honesty, I'd prefer to find something where someone has 'plowed the ground' and at the very most, I'd have to augment it with a micro. Yea, I am a bit lazy - the intent was to fix the amp, not develop a curve tracer....
Thanks in advance
J
I have found a few transistors that are dead and need to be replaced. Fortunately, they are in parts of the amp where the other channel has an identical transistor.
Having one transistor as a base will allow me to match something close to the original.
I have made (in the past) the typical transistor curve tracer that shows the curves on a scope - cute but not precise enough for my intentions. I am more interested in a lab type instrument.
Basically what I am looking for is a curve tracer that has a micro attached to it that have some A/D's on them that can record the data of interest (e.g. Ib (vb), Vce, etc.
I've considered an arduino based approach but they have the limitations of 5V max on the input for the A/Ds and don't want to scale it.
I've looked for old Heathkit and Tek curve tracers that I could augment with a micro but they seem to be very scarce, in addition to having transistors in them that are NLA.
I could design one myself but in all honesty, I'd prefer to find something where someone has 'plowed the ground' and at the very most, I'd have to augment it with a micro. Yea, I am a bit lazy - the intent was to fix the amp, not develop a curve tracer....
Thanks in advance
J
John Larkin
Oct 28, 2018, 8:56:12 PM10/28/18
to
replacement part.
A curve tracer tells you nothing about thermal properties, namely
power handling capacity.
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
lunatic fringe electronics
bitrex
Oct 28, 2018, 9:08:23 PM10/28/18
to
want to know the noise specifications a curve tracer won't tell you that
either.
But outside of critical sections like phono preamps that were designed
for very low noise the exact specifications of small signal transistors
in TO-92 package in audio equipment is kinda noncritical, the jellybean
transistor they went with in a particular design is often whatever what
was on sale at the time.
I like the BC550C/BC560C as generic audio small signal transistor
replacements
jurb...@gmail.com
Oct 28, 2018, 9:23:57 PM10/28/18
to
I got a transistor spec book here that goes so old the first number in it is 2A. It doesn't give curves but really, do you need that ? Why would hfe in the linear range be that critical that you can't do it with a decent generator n shit ? Technically you could do it without a scope, and accurately.
I mean, this "intent to fix the amp", what kind of amp ? An instrumentation amp with about 500VA output designed for varied, nonlinear and and highly reactive loads ?
The only transistors that are critical like that are those used in a current sharing scheme, especially if they didn't want alot of Re on them.
If it is analog current sharing then you really just need to match them at somewhere near their maximum current like 70%, that'll make them share when it counts. Who cares when it is operating at 5% output ? I think you are overthinking this, if I am wrong say so, and of course do tell why...
Incidentally, they obviously discontinued that 2A. I don't know how we'll get by. Fifty volts ! 120mW, 8mA !, Icbo 2mA, hfe 3. that means that the Vceo might be as high as hfe times Icbo, 2 X 3. So the operating range could be from 6 - 8 mA collector current...
Hell, 2mA @ 40V ? Umm, 20K ohms ? I mean not really but it seems your source resistance better be lower than that, at least to DC. A transformer ! Now where's that Triad-Utrad book at ? All these damn tubes around. Now look ! The other day I couldn't find an ion trap to save my life. Then kids better keep off my grass or I'll give them an (_|_)full of rock salt outta old betsy here. Shoots just as straight as she did in the war between the states she does.
I mean, this "intent to fix the amp", what kind of amp ? An instrumentation amp with about 500VA output designed for varied, nonlinear and and highly reactive loads ?
The only transistors that are critical like that are those used in a current sharing scheme, especially if they didn't want alot of Re on them.
If it is analog current sharing then you really just need to match them at somewhere near their maximum current like 70%, that'll make them share when it counts. Who cares when it is operating at 5% output ? I think you are overthinking this, if I am wrong say so, and of course do tell why...
Incidentally, they obviously discontinued that 2A. I don't know how we'll get by. Fifty volts ! 120mW, 8mA !, Icbo 2mA, hfe 3. that means that the Vceo might be as high as hfe times Icbo, 2 X 3. So the operating range could be from 6 - 8 mA collector current...
Hell, 2mA @ 40V ? Umm, 20K ohms ? I mean not really but it seems your source resistance better be lower than that, at least to DC. A transformer ! Now where's that Triad-Utrad book at ? All these damn tubes around. Now look ! The other day I couldn't find an ion trap to save my life. Then kids better keep off my grass or I'll give them an (_|_)full of rock salt outta old betsy here. Shoots just as straight as she did in the war between the states she does.
bitrex
Oct 28, 2018, 9:26:53 PM10/28/18
to
is a mostly obsolete instrument from a time when transistors were
expensive and manufacturing tolerances sucked balls and
duff/under-performing parts were commonplace, that's not year of our
Lord 2018, discrete transistors are cheap and quality is excellent.
Like maybe if you needed to well-characterize RF or microwave amp
transistors to get all the relevant information about their parameters
that they often don't include on datasheets, for large-scale
manufacture, maybe useful, an arduion/AVR based design will probably not
be able to do that however.
But just for audio circuits like why do this, the schematics/service
manuals for just about everything ever sold are available online and I
can't recall ever not being able to find an appropriate substitution
cross-reference with a bit of searching
bitrex
Oct 28, 2018, 9:28:35 PM10/28/18
to
jurb...@gmail.com
Oct 28, 2018, 9:33:52 PM10/28/18
to
>""youth", in quotes I'm just shy of 40 "
Wow, that explains why you're not conservative. You will be in about ten years, and don't worry, it doesn't hurt.
Phil Allison
Oct 28, 2018, 9:38:33 PM10/28/18
to
jjhu...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
> I find myself in a situation where I am repairing some high end
> audio amps and cassette decks that have house numbered semiconductors,
> mainly transistors as well as JDEC p/n that are NLA.
>
** It's " JEDEC " = Joint Electron Device Engineering Council.
>
>
> I find myself in a situation where I am repairing some high end
> audio amps and cassette decks that have house numbered semiconductors,
> mainly transistors as well as JDEC p/n that are NLA.
>
The full specs for JEDEC semis are always published and Google can search that for you. Also this page has a few more clues.
https://www.elexp.com/Images/Reading_Transistor_Markings.pdf
> I have found a few transistors that are dead and need to be replaced.
> Fortunately, they are in parts of the amp where the other channel has
> Having one transistor as a base will allow me to match something close
> to the original.
>
> I have made (in the past) the typical transistor curve tracer that shows
> the curves on a scope - cute but not precise enough for my intentions.
> I am more interested in a lab type instrument.
>
** You are wasting your time, that is no way to even get close.
> to the original.
>
> I have made (in the past) the typical transistor curve tracer that shows
> the curves on a scope - cute but not precise enough for my intentions.
> I am more interested in a lab type instrument.
>
I have a LOT of experience with substituting transistors found in all brands of hi-fi and pro audio electronics. There are plenty of clues to be found & used in choosing suitable replacements for obsolete and code numbered parts.
Sometimes devices need to be Vbe and/or Hfe matched - circuit topology is the big clue there.
Hint: watch out for TO3 devices that seem like ordinary power transistors but are in fact Darlingtons.
..... Phil
k...@notreal.com
Oct 28, 2018, 10:00:53 PM10/28/18
to
On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 18:33:48 -0700 (PDT), jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
>>""youth", in quotes I'm just shy of 40 "
>
>Wow, that explains why you're not conservative. You will be in about ten years, and don't worry, it doesn't hurt.
Nope. Not smart enough to learn.
>>""youth", in quotes I'm just shy of 40 "
>
>Wow, that explains why you're not conservative. You will be in about ten years, and don't worry, it doesn't hurt.
bitrex
Oct 28, 2018, 10:16:57 PM10/28/18
to
On 10/28/2018 09:33 PM, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
>> ""youth", in quotes I'm just shy of 40"
>
> Wow, that explains why you're not conservative. You will be in about ten years, and don't worry, it doesn't hurt.
>
I'm probably too long-time New Englander for that I'm afraid, why in the
>> ""youth", in quotes I'm just shy of 40"
>
> Wow, that explains why you're not conservative. You will be in about ten years, and don't worry, it doesn't hurt.
>
world would I join a party so beloved by these whackjob "Real America"
holy-roller evangelicals? scumbag scam-artists the lot of 'em and anyone
who panders to them
bitrex
Oct 28, 2018, 10:22:33 PM10/28/18
to
hoot.
Jeff Liebermann
Oct 28, 2018, 10:27:44 PM10/28/18
to
>I've considered an arduino based approach but they have
>the limitations of 5V max on the input for the A/Ds and
>don't want to scale it.
Would 10v work for you?
>the limitations of 5V max on the input for the A/Ds and
>don't want to scale it.
<https://www.ebay.com/itm/141138017533>
Note the +/-15VDC power supplies.
--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Clifford Heath
Oct 28, 2018, 10:34:35 PM10/28/18
to
On 29/10/18 12:33 pm, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
>> ""youth", in quotes I'm just shy of 40"
>
> Wow, that explains why you're not conservative. You will be in about ten years, and don't worry, it doesn't hurt.
As the saying goes...
>> ""youth", in quotes I'm just shy of 40"
>
> Wow, that explains why you're not conservative. You will be in about ten years, and don't worry, it doesn't hurt.
If you're not a socialist when you're young, you have no heart;
If you're not a capitalist when you're old, you have no brain.
:)
bitrex
Oct 28, 2018, 10:39:03 PM10/28/18
to
children, because the beauty of the White Aryan woman must not perish
from the Earth."
The "beauty of the White Aryan woman" could stand to lose about 35
pounds on average in this country, it's way more likely to perish from
heart disease than Mexicans
Tim Williams
Oct 28, 2018, 10:52:00 PM10/28/18
to
Curves aren't going to tell you much. There isn't much variation between
induvidual transistors, in the parameters that matter.
Well, hopefully in circuits that are made insensitive to those parameters.
Well, "high end audio", who knows. You'll have to find (or trace) the
schematic and analyze it for stability and such.
The headline parameters are the more important ones. Vceo (actually Vces
under current, Vceo is a minimax parameter) is measured like a zener.
Ic(max) is more or less where hFE falls over. hFE and Vce(sat) are measured
at typical conditions (not at the same time, mind: hFE drops sharply at low
Vce, for obvious reasons!). Those will more or less fix the size of the
junction: hFE falls over at high current density, and junction thickness
(not necessarily die thickness) sets Vceo.
Junction size and thickness also set capacitance, more or less. (I don't
think anyone is using super fancy doping profiles in amplifier transistors,
and switchmode transistors have shit SOA so hopefully wouldn't be found
here.)
That leaves the biggest degree of freedom: fT or t_r and such. A ring base
connection, like the ancient mesa 2N3055, has shit all fT and Vce(sat), due
to large Rbb'. Modern (80s+) epitaxial are planar, made with interdigitated
emitter and base, much faster. A lot of power supplies, amplifiers and such
fell victim to that, where they sang like a bird after repair...
To test that, set up an amplifier and measure the current gain as a function
of frequency. It'd be probably a resistor from func gen to base, and
collector load of a cascode (with a known faster, equally ampy) transistor.
Or just a low resistance (noninductive) so Miller effect is still
negligible.
Switching behavior isn't quite the same because of the highly nonlinear
conditions, but that's easy to test, too, just set up the right turn-on and
turn-off base currents. The sharpness of turn-on/off is distinctive of
different types.
Also noise, but power transistors probably don't need to worry about that.
If you're replacing input transistors, you may need to consider it. Testing
noise figure is kind of a pain, you'll want to look up some references.
Tim
--
Seven Transistor Labs, LLC
Electrical Engineering Consultation and Design
Website: https://www.seventransistorlabs.com/
<jjhu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:7fe0e947-7965-45ff...@googlegroups.com...
induvidual transistors, in the parameters that matter.
Well, hopefully in circuits that are made insensitive to those parameters.
Well, "high end audio", who knows. You'll have to find (or trace) the
schematic and analyze it for stability and such.
The headline parameters are the more important ones. Vceo (actually Vces
under current, Vceo is a minimax parameter) is measured like a zener.
Ic(max) is more or less where hFE falls over. hFE and Vce(sat) are measured
at typical conditions (not at the same time, mind: hFE drops sharply at low
Vce, for obvious reasons!). Those will more or less fix the size of the
junction: hFE falls over at high current density, and junction thickness
(not necessarily die thickness) sets Vceo.
Junction size and thickness also set capacitance, more or less. (I don't
think anyone is using super fancy doping profiles in amplifier transistors,
and switchmode transistors have shit SOA so hopefully wouldn't be found
here.)
That leaves the biggest degree of freedom: fT or t_r and such. A ring base
connection, like the ancient mesa 2N3055, has shit all fT and Vce(sat), due
to large Rbb'. Modern (80s+) epitaxial are planar, made with interdigitated
emitter and base, much faster. A lot of power supplies, amplifiers and such
fell victim to that, where they sang like a bird after repair...
To test that, set up an amplifier and measure the current gain as a function
of frequency. It'd be probably a resistor from func gen to base, and
collector load of a cascode (with a known faster, equally ampy) transistor.
Or just a low resistance (noninductive) so Miller effect is still
negligible.
Switching behavior isn't quite the same because of the highly nonlinear
conditions, but that's easy to test, too, just set up the right turn-on and
turn-off base currents. The sharpness of turn-on/off is distinctive of
different types.
Also noise, but power transistors probably don't need to worry about that.
If you're replacing input transistors, you may need to consider it. Testing
noise figure is kind of a pain, you'll want to look up some references.
Tim
--
Seven Transistor Labs, LLC
Electrical Engineering Consultation and Design
Website: https://www.seventransistorlabs.com/
<jjhu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:7fe0e947-7965-45ff...@googlegroups.com...
Jeff Liebermann
Oct 28, 2018, 11:00:06 PM10/28/18
to
leftist, commie pinko, anti-everything, chronically protesting, hippie
freak:
<http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/jeffl/slides/jeffl-06.html>
Fast forward about 40 years, and today I'm an arch conservative,
somewhat reactionary, right leaning, registered Republican, member of
the establishment:
<http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/jeffl/slides/jeffl-08.html>
It can and probably will happen to you. Resistance is futile.
Jeff Liebermann
Oct 28, 2018, 11:35:14 PM10/28/18
to
On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 19:27:50 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:
(...)
"Simple V-I curve tracer using an oscilloscope and function generator"
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWY-pakm_OM> (5:24)
I recently had to match four 2N3771 power transistors in an Astron
VS-35m linear power supply repair so that each transistor would
overheat equally and so that the output current meter would produce
sane numbers.
I don't own a curve tracer, so I threw together something similar to
the above video, except that the ramp (function) generator provided
the current to the base, scope vertical across a small value emitter
resistor, and scope horizontal to the ramp generator output. Not the
best, but good enough for a quick fix. Sorry, no photos.
"More Circuit Fun: Simple transistor curve tracer using Stairstep
generator circuit"
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOLLoa2fH24> (11:13)
<https://www.qsl.net/w2aew/youtube/curvetracer.pdf>
wrote:
(...)
"Simple V-I curve tracer using an oscilloscope and function generator"
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWY-pakm_OM> (5:24)
I recently had to match four 2N3771 power transistors in an Astron
VS-35m linear power supply repair so that each transistor would
overheat equally and so that the output current meter would produce
sane numbers.
I don't own a curve tracer, so I threw together something similar to
the above video, except that the ramp (function) generator provided
the current to the base, scope vertical across a small value emitter
resistor, and scope horizontal to the ramp generator output. Not the
best, but good enough for a quick fix. Sorry, no photos.
"More Circuit Fun: Simple transistor curve tracer using Stairstep
generator circuit"
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOLLoa2fH24> (11:13)
<https://www.qsl.net/w2aew/youtube/curvetracer.pdf>
bitrex
Oct 29, 2018, 1:34:47 AM10/29/18
to
On 10/28/2018 11:00 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 18:33:48 -0700 (PDT), jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>> ""youth", in quotes I'm just shy of 40"
>>
>> Wow, that explains why you're not conservative. You will be
>> in about ten years, and don't worry, it doesn't hurt.
>
> Y're right. I'm just short of 71. I started out as a radical
> leftist, commie pinko, anti-everything, chronically protesting, hippie
> freak:
> <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/jeffl/slides/jeffl-06.html>
> Fast forward about 40 years, and today I'm an arch conservative,
> somewhat reactionary, right leaning, registered Republican, member of
> the establishment:
Woah, how unusual.
> On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 18:33:48 -0700 (PDT), jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>> ""youth", in quotes I'm just shy of 40"
>>
>> Wow, that explains why you're not conservative. You will be
>> in about ten years, and don't worry, it doesn't hurt.
>
> Y're right. I'm just short of 71. I started out as a radical
> leftist, commie pinko, anti-everything, chronically protesting, hippie
> freak:
> <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/jeffl/slides/jeffl-06.html>
> Fast forward about 40 years, and today I'm an arch conservative,
> somewhat reactionary, right leaning, registered Republican, member of
> the establishment:
> <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/jeffl/slides/jeffl-08.html>
> It can and probably will happen to you. Resistance is futile.
>
>
sellouts with no real values who'd gladly hawk their souls for ten
bucks. We know, already ;-)
bitrex
Oct 29, 2018, 1:45:01 AM10/29/18
to
funny man with the monkey!!"
tabb...@gmail.com
Oct 29, 2018, 2:04:42 AM10/29/18
to
Jeff Liebermann
Oct 29, 2018, 2:09:38 AM10/29/18
to
On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 01:34:41 -0400, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:
>On 10/28/2018 11:00 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 18:33:48 -0700 (PDT), jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>> ""youth", in quotes I'm just shy of 40"
>>>
>>> Wow, that explains why you're not conservative. You will be
>>> in about ten years, and don't worry, it doesn't hurt.
>>
>> Y're right. I'm just short of 71. I started out as a radical
>> leftist, commie pinko, anti-everything, chronically protesting, hippie
>> freak:
>> <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/jeffl/slides/jeffl-06.html>
>> Fast forward about 40 years, and today I'm an arch conservative,
>> somewhat reactionary, right leaning, registered Republican, member of
>> the establishment:
>
>Woah, how unusual.
Not really. Many of my friends followed approximately the same path.
>On 10/28/2018 11:00 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 18:33:48 -0700 (PDT), jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>> ""youth", in quotes I'm just shy of 40"
>>>
>>> Wow, that explains why you're not conservative. You will be
>>> in about ten years, and don't worry, it doesn't hurt.
>>
>> Y're right. I'm just short of 71. I started out as a radical
>> leftist, commie pinko, anti-everything, chronically protesting, hippie
>> freak:
>> <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/jeffl/slides/jeffl-06.html>
>> Fast forward about 40 years, and today I'm an arch conservative,
>> somewhat reactionary, right leaning, registered Republican, member of
>> the establishment:
>
>Woah, how unusual.
Some saw the problems with the idealism of the 1960's and switched
early, while others got the clue after they accumulated some
responsibilities. I know a few that still look like they're
protesting something, but vote and put their money on conservative
candidates and policies. My transformation was rather unusual:
<http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/jeffl/slides/jeffl-wolf.html>
Patience. Your turn will come. Best you prepare yourself for the
inevitable metamorphosis.
>> <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/jeffl/slides/jeffl-08.html>
>> It can and probably will happen to you. Resistance is futile.
>You don't have to explain to us that the "baby boomer" generation were
>sellouts with no real values who'd gladly hawk their souls for ten
>bucks. We know, already ;-)
credit for recognizing that us baby boomers had "real values" to sell,
while your generation seems to lack any values worth selling.
11PM and I forgot to eat dinner. Argh.
bitrex
Oct 29, 2018, 2:30:33 AM10/29/18
to
On 10/29/2018 02:09 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 01:34:41 -0400, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:
>
>> On 10/28/2018 11:00 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>> On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 18:33:48 -0700 (PDT), jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>>> ""youth", in quotes I'm just shy of 40"
>>>>
>>>> Wow, that explains why you're not conservative. You will be
>>>> in about ten years, and don't worry, it doesn't hurt.
>>>
>>> Y're right. I'm just short of 71. I started out as a radical
>>> leftist, commie pinko, anti-everything, chronically protesting, hippie
>>> freak:
>>> <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/jeffl/slides/jeffl-06.html>
>>> Fast forward about 40 years, and today I'm an arch conservative,
>>> somewhat reactionary, right leaning, registered Republican, member of
>>> the establishment:
>>
>> Woah, how unusual.
>
> Not really. Many of my friends followed approximately the same path.
> Some saw the problems with the idealism of the 1960's and switched
> early, while others got the clue after they accumulated some
> responsibilities. I know a few that still look like they're
> protesting something, but vote and put their money on conservative
> candidates and policies. My transformation was rather unusual:
> <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/jeffl/slides/jeffl-wolf.html>
Yeah I did stuff like that on the computer too. when I was 13
> On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 01:34:41 -0400, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:
>
>> On 10/28/2018 11:00 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>> On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 18:33:48 -0700 (PDT), jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>>> ""youth", in quotes I'm just shy of 40"
>>>>
>>>> Wow, that explains why you're not conservative. You will be
>>>> in about ten years, and don't worry, it doesn't hurt.
>>>
>>> Y're right. I'm just short of 71. I started out as a radical
>>> leftist, commie pinko, anti-everything, chronically protesting, hippie
>>> freak:
>>> <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/jeffl/slides/jeffl-06.html>
>>> Fast forward about 40 years, and today I'm an arch conservative,
>>> somewhat reactionary, right leaning, registered Republican, member of
>>> the establishment:
>>
>> Woah, how unusual.
>
> Not really. Many of my friends followed approximately the same path.
> Some saw the problems with the idealism of the 1960's and switched
> early, while others got the clue after they accumulated some
> responsibilities. I know a few that still look like they're
> protesting something, but vote and put their money on conservative
> candidates and policies. My transformation was rather unusual:
> <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/jeffl/slides/jeffl-wolf.html>
> Patience. Your turn will come. Best you prepare yourself for the
> inevitable metamorphosis.
>
>>> <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/jeffl/slides/jeffl-08.html>
>>> It can and probably will happen to you. Resistance is futile.
>
>> You don't have to explain to us that the "baby boomer" generation were
>> sellouts with no real values who'd gladly hawk their souls for ten
>> bucks. We know, already ;-)
>
> Ok, I won't explain. You already have all the answers. I'll give you
> credit for recognizing that us baby boomers had "real values" to sell,
> while your generation seems to lack any values worth selling.
>
> 11PM and I forgot to eat dinner. Argh.
>
bitrex
Oct 29, 2018, 2:35:33 AM10/29/18
to
conservatives here that I'd want to sign up for the camaraderie? Not
sure what kind of codepenedent you take me for, lol. I think maybe you
need better marketing. With friends like these...
bitrex
Oct 29, 2018, 2:45:09 AM10/29/18
to
On 10/29/2018 02:04 AM, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:
divorced them/cheated on them, is that what you're angling at?
I can't personally think of a sillier reason to change anything, men my
age all seem to be griping about some broad or other though as if they
all shit gold or something I don't really understand it personally.
Mikko OH2HVJ
Oct 29, 2018, 3:36:19 AM10/29/18
to
jjhu...@gmail.com writes:
> I have made (in the past) the typical transistor curve tracer that
> shows the curves on a scope - cute but not precise enough for my
> intentions. I am more interested in a lab type instrument.
I bought HP 4142B source/monitor unit with 3 channels to play around and
> I have made (in the past) the typical transistor curve tracer that
> shows the curves on a scope - cute but not precise enough for my
> intentions. I am more interested in a lab type instrument.
created a few simple web-based Jupyter notebooks to do the measurements.
It's relatively easy to set up to do any DC parameter measurements. The
code is ugly as hell (does what I need and nothing more, works probably
only for my setup), but if you're interested, I can share it.
--
mikko
bitrex
Oct 29, 2018, 3:46:44 AM10/29/18
to
On 10/28/2018 09:33 PM, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
>> ""youth", in quotes I'm just shy of 40"
>
> Wow, that explains why you're not conservative. You will be in about ten years, and don't worry, it doesn't hurt.
>
I'm not sure what kind of dittohead rube it must take to listen to a
>
> Wow, that explains why you're not conservative. You will be in about ten years, and don't worry, it doesn't hurt.
>
has-been actor who's just been elected to the highest elected position
in the _government_ run lines like "the government is the problem" and
not immediately run and get the pitchforks and tar and feathers
treatment for them, are they talking about some _other_ government????
Thanks for the heads up, Mr. Hoenst Abe! Gosh!
Chris Jones
Oct 29, 2018, 8:53:44 AM10/29/18
to
https://www.analog.com/en/design-center/evaluation-hardware-and-software/evaluation-boards-kits/eval-ad5522.html
It is a 4-channel SMU controlled over USB2, if you add the necessary
power supplies and heatsink. That one only goes up to 80mA per channel
but there are similar chips that go above an amp, but only one channel
per chip. Strangely they tied the force and sense pins together on the
eval board, but that should be easily fixed with a scalpel and some fine
wire. I could make my own board, but in quantity of 1, I could not buy
the parts for the price of that eval board.
Unfortunately the supplied software is just enough to show that it works
and not enough to make it a usable lab instrument. I plotted the I-V
curve of a LED with it but more than that would require some new software.
If someone did make a board with that chip, write some nice software,
maybe add some isolators in the digital signal path, and put it in a box
with power supplies, I think it would be pretty handy, e.g. for fitting
SPICE models to actual transistors and stuff like that. I think it would
be a marketable product, even if not as good as the HP / Keysight /
Keithley versions.
bitrex
Oct 29, 2018, 10:24:32 AM10/29/18
to
On 10/28/2018 11:00 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 18:33:48 -0700 (PDT), jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>> ""youth", in quotes I'm just shy of 40"
>>
>> Wow, that explains why you're not conservative. You will be
>> in about ten years, and don't worry, it doesn't hurt.
>
> Y're right. I'm just short of 71. I started out as a radical
> leftist, commie pinko, anti-everything, chronically protesting, hippie
> freak:
I was never a hippie or communist myself but doesn't surprise me the
>
>>> ""youth", in quotes I'm just shy of 40"
>>
>> Wow, that explains why you're not conservative. You will be
>> in about ten years, and don't worry, it doesn't hurt.
>
> Y're right. I'm just short of 71. I started out as a radical
> leftist, commie pinko, anti-everything, chronically protesting, hippie
> freak:
radical left and radical right in the US are kissing cousins. it's
called "I'm an attention-seeker please pay attention to me"
Chris
Oct 29, 2018, 12:57:22 PM10/29/18
to
On 10/29/18 00:46, jjhu...@gmail.com wrote:
> I find myself in a situation where I am repairing some high end audio amps and cassette decks that have house numbered semiconductors, mainly transistors as well as JDEC p/n that are NLA.
>
> I have found a few transistors that are dead and need to be replaced. Fortunately, they are in parts of the amp where the other channel has an identical transistor.
> Having one transistor as a base will allow me to match something close to the original.
>
> I find myself in a situation where I am repairing some high end audio amps and cassette decks that have house numbered semiconductors, mainly transistors as well as JDEC p/n that are NLA.
>
> I have found a few transistors that are dead and need to be replaced. Fortunately, they are in parts of the amp where the other channel has an identical transistor.
> Having one transistor as a base will allow me to match something close to the original.
>
> I have made (in the past) the typical transistor curve tracer that shows the curves on a scope - cute but not precise enough for my intentions. I am more interested in a lab type instrument.
>
>
> Basically what I am looking for is a curve tracer that has a micro attached to it that have some A/D's on them that can record the data of interest (e.g. Ib (vb), Vce, etc.
> I've considered an arduino based approach but they have the limitations of 5V max on the input for the A/Ds and don't want to scale it.
> I've looked for old Heathkit and Tek curve tracers that I could augment with a micro but they seem to be very scarce, in addition to having transistors in them that are NLA.
> I could design one myself but in all honesty, I'd prefer to find something where someone has 'plowed the ground' and at the very most, I'd have to augment it with a micro. Yea, I am a bit lazy - the intent was to fix the amp, not develop a curve tracer....
> Thanks in advance
> J
>
Tektronix made very good curve tracers, 575, 6 and earlier
> I've considered an arduino based approach but they have the limitations of 5V max on the input for the A/Ds and don't want to scale it.
> I've looked for old Heathkit and Tek curve tracers that I could augment with a micro but they seem to be very scarce, in addition to having transistors in them that are NLA.
> I could design one myself but in all honesty, I'd prefer to find something where someone has 'plowed the ground' and at the very most, I'd have to augment it with a micro. Yea, I am a bit lazy - the intent was to fix the amp, not develop a curve tracer....
> Thanks in advance
> J
>
models. A worthwhile addition to any lab, but quite
expensive now. Have a Fairchild Model 6200-B here in
the lab. Not often used, but a real time saver when
it's needed.
Chris
Johnny B Good
Oct 29, 2018, 1:48:03 PM10/29/18
to
to sell', forgetting that it was our generation's responsibility to
install those "real values" for them all to sell in the first place. :-(
It's not entirely our fault but it's a complex story involving
technological developments that allowed our "Golden Rulers" to shape
society through commercial and political propaganda so as to turn the
consuming masses into the cash cow resource that it is today.
As I said it's a *complex* story but that's what seems to be at the core
of Humanity's problems today. I have my own hypothesis as to how
Humanity's problems will ultimately be resolved but since it's in that
class of hypothesis known as "Conspiracy Theory", I shan't bore you with
its gory details. :-)
--
Johnny B Good
bitrex
Oct 29, 2018, 2:13:54 PM10/29/18
to
some shit-talking fake ass "tough guy" never-served as the leadership of
the Right appears to be full of now. I think I'll be okay.
bitrex
Oct 29, 2018, 2:54:31 PM10/29/18
to
On 10/29/2018 01:47 PM, Johnny B Good wrote:
> It's not entirely our fault but it's a complex story involving
> technological developments that allowed our "Golden Rulers" to shape
> society through commercial and political propaganda so as to turn the
> consuming masses into the cash cow resource that it is today.
>
> As I said it's a *complex* story but that's what seems to be at the core
> of Humanity's problems today. I have my own hypothesis as to how
> Humanity's problems will ultimately be resolved but since it's in that
> class of hypothesis known as "Conspiracy Theory", I shan't bore you with
> its gory details. :-)
>
the hustle such as it is is not particularly sophisticated, Trump is the
> technological developments that allowed our "Golden Rulers" to shape
> society through commercial and political propaganda so as to turn the
> consuming masses into the cash cow resource that it is today.
>
> As I said it's a *complex* story but that's what seems to be at the core
> of Humanity's problems today. I have my own hypothesis as to how
> Humanity's problems will ultimately be resolved but since it's in that
> class of hypothesis known as "Conspiracy Theory", I shan't bore you with
> its gory details. :-)
>
best friend the military-industrial complex has ever had, his role is to
transfer as much money to billionaires as possible and in turn they will
spend millions and billions to keep him, or a guy like him, in power as
long as possible.
All you have to do to impress about 50% of Americans is just tell them
you're going to give their money to billionaires instead of a black man
and they'll love you forever. Easily-played dupes and rubes, like taking
candy from a baby, really.
The Potemkin village will eventually collapse, however, and the Trumps
and Waltons and Peter Thiels will get while the getting's good. And if
you thought Hillary Clinton was bad wait until you see the true terror
of the New Left that will drop in to fill the void; any duffy old
MAGA-boomer without the scratch to escape to New Zealand with the
billionaires and unfortunate enough to remain behind will be torn to pieces.
And probably me too, by association. Thanks assholes I kinda liked it here.
John Larkin
Oct 29, 2018, 2:55:37 PM10/29/18
to
On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 21:08:18 -0400, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:
\
>
>
>for "high end" audio amps and cassette decks the parameters you'd also
>want to know the noise specifications a curve tracer won't tell you that
>either.
Cassette decks? Why?
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement
jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
\
>
>
>for "high end" audio amps and cassette decks the parameters you'd also
>want to know the noise specifications a curve tracer won't tell you that
>either.
Cassette decks? Why?
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement
jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
bitrex
Oct 29, 2018, 3:11:47 PM10/29/18
to
On 10/29/2018 02:55 PM, John Larkin wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 21:08:18 -0400, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:
> \
>>
>>
>> for "high end" audio amps and cassette decks the parameters you'd also
>> want to know the noise specifications a curve tracer won't tell you that
>> either.
>
> Cassette decks? Why?
>
>
Don't ask me man, I went completely solid-state ages ago I don't even
> On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 21:08:18 -0400, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:
> \
>>
>>
>> for "high end" audio amps and cassette decks the parameters you'd also
>> want to know the noise specifications a curve tracer won't tell you that
>> either.
>
> Cassette decks? Why?
>
>
own any CDs anymore. People are peculiar about their dumpy ol' Onkyos
which need constant maintenance with their very-impressive-for-the-time
75dB SNR or whatever. I assume that some of them have critical sections
in say the pickup amps which require low noise or matched transistors
but it's also been ages since I've worked on one
There's some stuff from the past that's worth preserving but some shit
is best left in the past like vinyl and cassettes they were never that
great.
bitrex
Oct 29, 2018, 3:23:16 PM10/29/18
to
three_jeeps
Oct 29, 2018, 5:39:12 PM10/29/18
to
@bitrex
You are either a troll or had way too much coffee. GIve it a rest man.I have some high end audio gear from the 80s and I do some repair for friends/clients. I also do format conversions for myself and other ppl.
I posted a question and 60% of the drivel that flowed is totally unrelated or begged the question about usefulness. I always thought that an IQ test should be given to ppl before they got an on-ramp to the net. Most would fail the test.
I don't care about your technology views, your likes/dislikes, or your perspective on audio or electronics, your political view, or what your father did or did not do. Mine was a WWII vet - fighter pilot but has nothing to do with the question I asked.
Why a cassette deck? I am repairing one for a friend. He and I both have a Nakamichi 1000ZXL. It appears his preamp died. I didn't challenge him as to why he *still* uses it...to each their own.
take a back seat, shut up, and enjoy the ride, or leave.
You are either a troll or had way too much coffee. GIve it a rest man.I have some high end audio gear from the 80s and I do some repair for friends/clients. I also do format conversions for myself and other ppl.
I posted a question and 60% of the drivel that flowed is totally unrelated or begged the question about usefulness. I always thought that an IQ test should be given to ppl before they got an on-ramp to the net. Most would fail the test.
I don't care about your technology views, your likes/dislikes, or your perspective on audio or electronics, your political view, or what your father did or did not do. Mine was a WWII vet - fighter pilot but has nothing to do with the question I asked.
Why a cassette deck? I am repairing one for a friend. He and I both have a Nakamichi 1000ZXL. It appears his preamp died. I didn't challenge him as to why he *still* uses it...to each their own.
take a back seat, shut up, and enjoy the ride, or leave.
three_jeeps
Oct 29, 2018, 5:43:09 PM10/29/18
to
On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 8:56:12 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
>
> Do you generally have schematics? That should be enough to pick a
> replacement part.
>
> A curve tracer tells you nothing about thermal properties, namely
> power handling capacity.
Thank you, I know that. Thermal properties arnt my concern.
J
>
> Do you generally have schematics? That should be enough to pick a
> replacement part.
>
> A curve tracer tells you nothing about thermal properties, namely
> power handling capacity.
>
>
> --
>
> John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
>
> lunatic fringe electronics
>
> --
>
> John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
>
Thank you, I know that. Thermal properties arnt my concern.
J
three_jeeps
Oct 29, 2018, 5:48:13 PM10/29/18
to
On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 9:38:33 PM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:
> jjhu...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> >
> > I find myself in a situation where I am repairing some high end
> > audio amps and cassette decks that have house numbered semiconductors,
> > mainly transistors as well as JDEC p/n that are NLA.
> >
>
> ** It's " JEDEC " = Joint Electron Device Engineering Council.
> jjhu...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> >
> > I find myself in a situation where I am repairing some high end
> > audio amps and cassette decks that have house numbered semiconductors,
> > mainly transistors as well as JDEC p/n that are NLA.
> >
>
>
> The full specs for JEDEC semis are always published and Google can search that for you. Also this page has a few more clues.
>
> https://www.elexp.com/Images/Reading_Transistor_Markings.pdf
>
>
> > I have found a few transistors that are dead and need to be replaced.
> > Fortunately, they are in parts of the amp where the other channel has
> > an identic transistor.
>
> > I have found a few transistors that are dead and need to be replaced.
> > Fortunately, they are in parts of the amp where the other channel has
> > Having one transistor as a base will allow me to match something close
> > to the original.
> >
> > I have made (in the past) the typical transistor curve tracer that shows
> > the curves on a scope - cute but not precise enough for my intentions.
> > I am more interested in a lab type instrument.
> >
>
> ** You are wasting your time, that is no way to even get close.
> > to the original.
> >
> > I have made (in the past) the typical transistor curve tracer that shows
> > the curves on a scope - cute but not precise enough for my intentions.
> > I am more interested in a lab type instrument.
> >
>
>
> I have a LOT of experience with substituting transistors found in all brands of hi-fi and pro audio electronics. There are plenty of clues to be found & used in choosing suitable replacements for obsolete and code numbered parts.
>
> Sometimes devices need to be Vbe and/or Hfe matched - circuit topology is the big clue there.
>
> Hint: watch out for TO3 devices that seem like ordinary power transistors but are in fact Darlingtons.
>
>
> ..... Phil
Yes, I know, I mistyped - thanks
I agree with you about the circuit clues. Since my background is math/control theory and hardware/digital architect (as in design of CPUs), my analog skills have gotten a bit rusty. If I have some questions, perhaps I can bounce them off you privately?
Thanks
J
John Larkin
Oct 29, 2018, 5:57:30 PM10/29/18
to
electronics. If you want paid consultants, you'll have to pay for
them.
If power doesn't matter, there are generic gumdrop NPNs and PNPs and
they are all pretty much the same. Casettes are noisy all by
themselves, so the transistors won't matter.
I think there is a reason that people like Tek used to sell curve
tracers and transistor testers, and don't any more.
I'd like a box that characterizes RF fets (phemts, SiC, GaN) for both
DC specs and capacitance, but we do that other ways now, and wouldn't
pay a lot for a dedicated box.
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
John Larkin
Oct 29, 2018, 6:03:58 PM10/29/18
to
around $80K.
We have a couple of their SMUs, which can be programmed to do curve
tracing, and lots more.
Gerhard Hoffmann
Oct 29, 2018, 6:14:50 PM10/29/18
to
Am 29.10.18 um 01:46 schrieb jjhu...@gmail.com:
and want the results on my disk. No more screen photos.
Price was so that I could survive the loss.
https://www.ebay.de/itm/112168145773?ul_noapp=true
It seems to work; the documentation is a hard to understand pidgin.
Sometimes there are unexpected results, like in one of the
plots where the drain current goes suddenly into saturation
for no reason.
Might be operator error, can't tell easily from the docs.
These plots have been done with it:
<
https://www.flickr.com/photos/137684711@N07/42542542745/in/album-72157662535945536/lightbox/
> and left/right.
regards,
Gerhard
> I find myself in a situation where I am repairing some high end audio amps and cassette decks that have house numbered semiconductors, mainly transistors as well as JDEC p/n that are NLA.
>
> I have found a few transistors that are dead and need to be replaced. Fortunately, they are in parts of the amp where the other channel has an identical transistor.
>
> Having one transistor as a base will allow me to match something close to the original.
>
> I have made (in the past) the typical transistor curve tracer that shows the curves on a scope - cute but not precise enough for my intentions. I am more interested in a lab type instrument.
>
>
> I have made (in the past) the typical transistor curve tracer that shows the curves on a scope - cute but not precise enough for my intentions. I am more interested in a lab type instrument.
>
> Basically what I am looking for is a curve tracer that has a micro attached to it that have some A/D's on them that can record the data of interest (e.g. Ib (vb), Vce, etc.
> I've considered an arduino based approach but they have the limitations of 5V max on the input for the A/Ds and don't want to scale it.
> I've looked for old Heathkit and Tek curve tracers that I could augment with a micro but they seem to be very scarce, in addition to having transistors in them that are NLA.
> I could design one myself but in all honesty, I'd prefer to find something where someone has 'plowed the ground' and at the very most, I'd have to augment it with a micro. Yea, I am a bit lazy - the intent was to fix the amp, not develop a curve tracer....
> Thanks in advance
I have bought this one, since I don't want yet another boat anchor
> I've considered an arduino based approach but they have the limitations of 5V max on the input for the A/Ds and don't want to scale it.
> I've looked for old Heathkit and Tek curve tracers that I could augment with a micro but they seem to be very scarce, in addition to having transistors in them that are NLA.
> I could design one myself but in all honesty, I'd prefer to find something where someone has 'plowed the ground' and at the very most, I'd have to augment it with a micro. Yea, I am a bit lazy - the intent was to fix the amp, not develop a curve tracer....
> Thanks in advance
and want the results on my disk. No more screen photos.
Price was so that I could survive the loss.
https://www.ebay.de/itm/112168145773?ul_noapp=true
It seems to work; the documentation is a hard to understand pidgin.
Sometimes there are unexpected results, like in one of the
plots where the drain current goes suddenly into saturation
for no reason.
Might be operator error, can't tell easily from the docs.
These plots have been done with it:
<
https://www.flickr.com/photos/137684711@N07/42542542745/in/album-72157662535945536/lightbox/
> and left/right.
regards,
Gerhard
Gerhard Hoffmann
Oct 29, 2018, 6:30:42 PM10/29/18
to
Am 29.10.18 um 22:57 schrieb John Larkin:
He asked an on-topic question and got shitty, off-topic answers,
all of them but maybe 2 or 3.
Your's was none of the 3.
Gerhard
all of them but maybe 2 or 3.
Your's was none of the 3.
Gerhard
George Herold
Oct 29, 2018, 6:54:31 PM10/29/18
to
On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 8:56:12 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 17:46:44 -0700 (PDT), jjhu...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >I find myself in a situation where I am repairing some high end audio amps and cassette decks that have house numbered semiconductors, mainly transistors as well as JDEC p/n that are NLA.
> >
> >I have found a few transistors that are dead and need to be replaced. Fortunately, they are in parts of the amp where the other channel has an identical transistor.
> >Having one transistor as a base will allow me to match something close to the original.
> >
> >I have made (in the past) the typical transistor curve tracer that shows the curves on a scope - cute but not precise enough for my intentions. I am more interested in a lab type instrument.
> >
> >Basically what I am looking for is a curve tracer that has a micro attached to it that have some A/D's on them that can record the data of interest (e.g. Ib (vb), Vce, etc.
> >I've considered an arduino based approach but they have the limitations of 5V max on the input for the A/Ds and don't want to scale it.
> >I've looked for old Heathkit and Tek curve tracers that I could augment with a micro but they seem to be very scarce, in addition to having transistors in them that are NLA.
> >I could design one myself but in all honesty, I'd prefer to find something where someone has 'plowed the ground' and at the very most, I'd have to augment it with a micro. Yea, I am a bit lazy - the intent was to fix the amp, not develop a curve tracer....
> >Thanks in advance
> >J
>
> >I find myself in a situation where I am repairing some high end audio amps and cassette decks that have house numbered semiconductors, mainly transistors as well as JDEC p/n that are NLA.
> >
> >I have found a few transistors that are dead and need to be replaced. Fortunately, they are in parts of the amp where the other channel has an identical transistor.
> >Having one transistor as a base will allow me to match something close to the original.
> >
> >I have made (in the past) the typical transistor curve tracer that shows the curves on a scope - cute but not precise enough for my intentions. I am more interested in a lab type instrument.
> >
> >Basically what I am looking for is a curve tracer that has a micro attached to it that have some A/D's on them that can record the data of interest (e.g. Ib (vb), Vce, etc.
> >I've considered an arduino based approach but they have the limitations of 5V max on the input for the A/Ds and don't want to scale it.
> >I've looked for old Heathkit and Tek curve tracers that I could augment with a micro but they seem to be very scarce, in addition to having transistors in them that are NLA.
> >I could design one myself but in all honesty, I'd prefer to find something where someone has 'plowed the ground' and at the very most, I'd have to augment it with a micro. Yea, I am a bit lazy - the intent was to fix the amp, not develop a curve tracer....
> >Thanks in advance
> >
> >
>
> Do you generally have schematics? That should be enough to pick a
> replacement part.
Right, schematics would help a lot.
> >
>
> Do you generally have schematics? That should be enough to pick a
> replacement part.
GH
>
> A curve tracer tells you nothing about thermal properties, namely
> power handling capacity.
>
>
> A curve tracer tells you nothing about thermal properties, namely
> power handling capacity.
>
>
> --
>
> John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
>
> lunatic fringe electronics
>
> John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
>
Dave M
Oct 29, 2018, 8:38:36 PM10/29/18
to
> A curve tracer tells you nothing about thermal properties, namely
> power handling capacity.
=================================================
> power handling capacity.
There was an article in QST magazine (April, 2015) "Mini-CT: A Curve Tracer
for the Ham Shack" by Veikko Kanto N7VK describing a curve tracer using a
C8051F121 microcontroller. The article is at
http://www.arrl.org/files/file/QST%20Binaries/Apr2015/Expanded%20Text.pdf,
however, the software seems lost to oblivion. I couldn't find it on the QST
web site. A thread on EEVBlog gives his location
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/minict-curve-tracer-zener-diodes-etc/.
You might be able to contact him for a copy of the software and any further
development of the project.
From a perusal of the article, it appears that he provided a data recording
feature in the software. Perhaps, if you could contact the author, some
further development could give you a good portrtion of what you're after in
a curve tracer.
Good luck with the project. It would make a great follow-up article for QST
or another magazine.
Cheers,
Dave M
John Larkin
Oct 29, 2018, 8:43:04 PM10/29/18
to
answer my question about schematics.
He apparently resents not getting free consulting, and resents
discussion drift. It's an unmoderated public forum; get used to it.
Chris
Oct 29, 2018, 8:54:03 PM10/29/18
to
On 10/30/18 00:42, John Larkin wrote:
> I answered first, and my response was civil and relevant. He didn't
> answer my question about schematics.
>
> He apparently resents not getting free consulting, and resents
> discussion drift. It's an unmoderated public forum; get used to it.
>
>
This is not facebook and and nothing like as controlled, or as PC,
> I answered first, and my response was civil and relevant. He didn't
> answer my question about schematics.
>
> He apparently resents not getting free consulting, and resents
> discussion drift. It's an unmoderated public forum; get used to it.
>
>
thankfully...
Chris
jjhu...@gmail.com
Oct 29, 2018, 9:25:05 PM10/29/18
to
On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 8:43:04 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 23:30:36 +0100, Gerhard Hoffmann
> On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 23:30:36 +0100, Gerhard Hoffmann
> wrote:
>
> >Am 29.10.18 um 22:57 schrieb John Larkin:
> >> On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 14:39:08 -0700 (PDT), three_jeeps
> >>
>
> >Am 29.10.18 um 22:57 schrieb John Larkin:
> >> On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 14:39:08 -0700 (PDT), three_jeeps
> >>
1) I usually try to find schematics, sometimes not very successful. If I do have schematics, I try to model it to see how it performs (if it is something I am not familiar with). I did answer the question of noise.
2) There are lots of reasons why curve tracers are no longer made by Tek, HP, etc. My speculation is that as a business decision, it is not profitable because ppl solve the design problem with different technology rather than with discrete transistors. That does not imply the use/application is useless.
3) I know a curve tracer does not provide any insight as to noise characteristic, and I know that noise is a concern - especially in old clunky electromechanical beasts like cassette deck. If you look at some of the designs and implementations, some of the low noise solutions are quite elegant.
4) Discussion drift - that is true, I resent it. I ask a technical question on a technical group and expect the answers to be technical. As one reader pointed out, most of it was not.
5) free consulting - is appreciated, and thanked in kind. Just because an approach doesn't do something doesn't mean the approach is invalid for other things. Because curve tracers do not provide insight on noise characteristics doesn't me they aren't useful for their intended purpose. I have a fairly solid academic background in EE but admittedly rusty in certain areas. I took extra courses in semiconductor physics even though it was not my major and that was many years ago.
6) unmoderated public forum. Right - anybody can say anything on any topic. My expectations for ppl to stay on topic was apparently incorrect. My expectation of professionals providing feed back in a professional manner was not met by a number of the responses, to which I am unpleasantly surprised. I am used to a higher standard, even in unmoderated groups. My expectations have been 'recalibrated.'
I appreciate the helpful feedback from you and other.
Peace,
J
On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 8:43:04 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 23:30:36 +0100, Gerhard Hoffmann
>
> >Am 29.10.18 um 22:57 schrieb John Larkin:
> >> On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 14:39:08 -0700 (PDT), three_jeeps
> >>
> >> On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 14:39:08 -0700 (PDT), three_jeeps
> >>
jjhu...@gmail.com
Oct 29, 2018, 9:29:22 PM10/29/18
to
On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 8:38:36 PM UTC-4, Dave M wrote:
> John Larkin wrote:
> John Larkin wrote:
TYVM
J
jjhu...@gmail.com
Oct 29, 2018, 9:32:19 PM10/29/18
to
On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 6:14:50 PM UTC-4, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:
> Am 29.10.18 um 01:46 schrieb
> Am 29.10.18 um 01:46 schrieb
Thanks
J
jjhu...@gmail.com
Oct 29, 2018, 9:34:26 PM10/29/18
to
On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 6:03:58 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 14:57:20 -0700, John Larkin
> <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 14:39:08 -0700 (PDT), three_jeeps
> On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 14:57:20 -0700, John Larkin
> <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 14:39:08 -0700 (PDT), three_jeeps
J
tabb...@gmail.com
Oct 29, 2018, 9:39:33 PM10/29/18
to
On Tuesday, 30 October 2018 01:34:26 UTC, jjhu...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 6:03:58 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> > On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 14:57:20 -0700, John Larkin
> > <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> wrote:
> > >On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 14:39:08 -0700 (PDT), three_jeeps
> > > wrote:
> > >If power doesn't matter, there are generic gumdrop NPNs and PNPs and
> > >they are all pretty much the same. Casettes are noisy all by
> > >themselves, so the transistors won't matter.
> > >
> > >I think there is a reason that people like Tek used to sell curve
> > >tracers and transistor testers, and don't any more.
> > >
> > >I'd like a box that characterizes RF fets (phemts, SiC, GaN) for both
> > >DC specs and capacitance, but we do that other ways now, and wouldn't
> > >pay a lot for a dedicated box.
> >
> > Keysight has a curve tracer, the B1505A Power Device Analyzer. It's
> > around $80K.
> >
> > We have a couple of their SMUs, which can be programmed to do curve
> > tracing, and lots more.
> On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 6:03:58 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> > On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 14:57:20 -0700, John Larkin
> > <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> wrote:
> > >On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 14:39:08 -0700 (PDT), three_jeeps
> > > wrote:
> > >If power doesn't matter, there are generic gumdrop NPNs and PNPs and
> > >they are all pretty much the same. Casettes are noisy all by
> > >themselves, so the transistors won't matter.
> > >
> > >I think there is a reason that people like Tek used to sell curve
> > >tracers and transistor testers, and don't any more.
> > >
> > >I'd like a box that characterizes RF fets (phemts, SiC, GaN) for both
> > >DC specs and capacitance, but we do that other ways now, and wouldn't
> > >pay a lot for a dedicated box.
> >
> > Keysight has a curve tracer, the B1505A Power Device Analyzer. It's
> > around $80K.
> >
> > We have a couple of their SMUs, which can be programmed to do curve
> > tracing, and lots more.
> Thank you. A bit pricey for my needs but if they come down to <= $200 USD, I'd consider it.
> J
I can't help thinking that with the help of a bit of eyesight persistence one could very simply get a scope to display a set of curves without even so much as resorting to a microprocessor. The mu-p would make it easier I expect, but the point is it doesn't look like a tricky problem.
> J
NT
jjhu...@gmail.com
Oct 29, 2018, 9:50:35 PM10/29/18
to
OTOH, I think it would be a neat gadget to have an experiment with. I might learn something useful that I didn't know, since this isn't my daily engineering work.
Thanks
J
Phil Allison
Oct 29, 2018, 10:04:53 PM10/29/18
to
three_jeeps wrote:
> If I have some questions, perhaps I can bounce them off you privately ?
>
** Better post them right here.
However, without actual units to do tests on and/or clear schematics, the task can become near impossible. I can point out what clues to look for but you have to find and make good use of them.
Experience with actual repairs soon revealed to me that manufacturers mostly chose particular semis ( BJTs, JFETs etc) because they were cheap and readily available - or at least were to them at the time. Not because their electrical characteristics were so special nothing else would do as well or better.
Having said that, one does need to get the basics right - ie substitutes should be in the same package, have sufficient breakdown voltage, power handling, Hfe, correct polarity etc. If devices need matching ( ie input diff pairs or output BJTs in parallel ) - then knowing how to do that job reliably is important too.
.... Phil
>
> Phil Allison wrote:
>
> >
> > > I have found a few transistors that are dead and need to be replaced.
> > > Fortunately, they are in parts of the amp where the other channel has
> > > an identic transistor.
> > > Having one transistor as a base will allow me to match something close
> > > to the original.
> > >
> > > I have made (in the past) the typical transistor curve tracer that shows
> > > the curves on a scope - cute but not precise enough for my intentions.
> > > I am more interested in a lab type instrument.
> > >
> >
> > ** You are wasting your time, that is no way to even get close.
> >
> > I have a LOT of experience with substituting transistors found in
> > all brands of hi-fi and pro audio electronics. There are plenty of
> > clues to be found & used in choosing suitable replacements for obsolete
> > and code numbered parts.
> >
> > Sometimes devices need to be Vbe and/or Hfe matched - circuit topology
> > is the big clue there.
> >
> > Hint: watch out for TO3 devices that seem like ordinary power
> > transistors but are in fact Darlingtons.
> >
> >
>
> Phil Allison wrote:
>
> >
> > > I have found a few transistors that are dead and need to be replaced.
> > > Fortunately, they are in parts of the amp where the other channel has
> > > an identic transistor.
> > > Having one transistor as a base will allow me to match something close
> > > to the original.
> > >
> > > I have made (in the past) the typical transistor curve tracer that shows
> > > the curves on a scope - cute but not precise enough for my intentions.
> > > I am more interested in a lab type instrument.
> > >
> >
> > ** You are wasting your time, that is no way to even get close.
> >
> > I have a LOT of experience with substituting transistors found in
> > all brands of hi-fi and pro audio electronics. There are plenty of
> > clues to be found & used in choosing suitable replacements for obsolete
> > and code numbered parts.
> >
> > Sometimes devices need to be Vbe and/or Hfe matched - circuit topology
> > is the big clue there.
> >
> > Hint: watch out for TO3 devices that seem like ordinary power
> > transistors but are in fact Darlingtons.
> >
> >
>
> I agree with you about the circuit clues. Since my background is
> math/control theory and hardware/digital architect (as in design of CPUs),
> my analog skills have gotten a bit rusty.
>
** Assuming that using a curve tracer is the answer to your prayers is worse than rusty.
> math/control theory and hardware/digital architect (as in design of CPUs),
> my analog skills have gotten a bit rusty.
>
> If I have some questions, perhaps I can bounce them off you privately ?
>
However, without actual units to do tests on and/or clear schematics, the task can become near impossible. I can point out what clues to look for but you have to find and make good use of them.
Experience with actual repairs soon revealed to me that manufacturers mostly chose particular semis ( BJTs, JFETs etc) because they were cheap and readily available - or at least were to them at the time. Not because their electrical characteristics were so special nothing else would do as well or better.
Having said that, one does need to get the basics right - ie substitutes should be in the same package, have sufficient breakdown voltage, power handling, Hfe, correct polarity etc. If devices need matching ( ie input diff pairs or output BJTs in parallel ) - then knowing how to do that job reliably is important too.
.... Phil
tabb...@gmail.com
Oct 29, 2018, 10:25:02 PM10/29/18
to
On Tuesday, 30 October 2018 01:50:35 UTC, jjhu...@gmail.com wrote:
You could always add little glitches on the display every 10 units or so.
But as Phil more or less said, modern commercial circuits are designed to not care about a fair spread of transistor values.
NT
But as Phil more or less said, modern commercial circuits are designed to not care about a fair spread of transistor values.
NT
John Larkin
Oct 29, 2018, 11:14:15 PM10/29/18
to
curves look about the same. Beta is all over the place anyhow. For
audio, just get a decent part with good beta and enough Vcbx or
something. A curve tracer won't tell you Ft or capacitances or noise.
A curve traces is more useful for fets, especially RF parts where the
data sheet often has no DC data.
>3) I know a curve tracer does not provide any insight as to noise characteristic, and I know that noise is a concern - especially in old clunky electromechanical beasts like cassette deck. If you look at some of the designs and implementations, some of the low noise solutions are quite elegant.
>4) Discussion drift - that is true, I resent it. I ask a technical question on a technical group and expect the answers to be technical. As one reader pointed out, most of it was not.
>5) free consulting - is appreciated, and thanked in kind. Just because an approach doesn't do something doesn't mean the approach is invalid for other things. Because curve tracers do not provide insight on noise characteristics doesn't me they aren't useful for their intended purpose. I have a fairly solid academic background in EE but admittedly rusty in certain areas. I took extra courses in semiconductor physics even though it was not my major and that was many years ago.
>
>6) unmoderated public forum. Right - anybody can say anything on any topic. My expectations for ppl to stay on topic was apparently incorrect.
discussion group. This is sci.electronics.DESIGN. Design implies a lot
of meandering.
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
bitrex
Oct 30, 2018, 12:43:14 AM10/30/18
to
(what's this "@" stuff?) I responded once to your original post the
other replies were to other people.
bitrex
Oct 30, 2018, 12:52:12 AM10/30/18
to
bitrex
Oct 30, 2018, 1:02:40 AM10/30/18
to
On 10/29/2018 09:25 PM, jjhu...@gmail.com wrote:
> I did reply to your first post but I forgot and did it in my email and it didn't get posted. To address your points:
> 1) I usually try to find schematics, sometimes not very successful. If I do have schematics, I try to model it to see how it performs (if it is something I am not familiar with). I did answer the question of noise.
> 2) There are lots of reasons why curve tracers are no longer made by Tek, HP, etc. My speculation is that as a business decision, it is not profitable because ppl solve the design problem with different technology rather than with discrete transistors. That does not imply the use/application is useless.
> 3) I know a curve tracer does not provide any insight as to noise characteristic, and I know that noise is a concern - especially in old clunky electromechanical beasts like cassette deck. If you look at some of the designs and implementations, some of the low noise solutions are quite elegant.
> 4) Discussion drift - that is true, I resent it. I ask a technical question on a technical group and expect the answers to be technical. As one reader pointed out, most of it was not.
> 5) free consulting - is appreciated, and thanked in kind. Just because an approach doesn't do something doesn't mean the approach is invalid for other things. Because curve tracers do not provide insight on noise characteristics doesn't me they aren't useful for their intended purpose. I have a fairly solid academic background in EE but admittedly rusty in certain areas. I took extra courses in semiconductor physics even though it was not my major and that was many years ago.
You "resent" it? You "expect" answers to be what now? You show up like a
> I did reply to your first post but I forgot and did it in my email and it didn't get posted. To address your points:
> 1) I usually try to find schematics, sometimes not very successful. If I do have schematics, I try to model it to see how it performs (if it is something I am not familiar with). I did answer the question of noise.
> 2) There are lots of reasons why curve tracers are no longer made by Tek, HP, etc. My speculation is that as a business decision, it is not profitable because ppl solve the design problem with different technology rather than with discrete transistors. That does not imply the use/application is useless.
> 3) I know a curve tracer does not provide any insight as to noise characteristic, and I know that noise is a concern - especially in old clunky electromechanical beasts like cassette deck. If you look at some of the designs and implementations, some of the low noise solutions are quite elegant.
> 4) Discussion drift - that is true, I resent it. I ask a technical question on a technical group and expect the answers to be technical. As one reader pointed out, most of it was not.
> 5) free consulting - is appreciated, and thanked in kind. Just because an approach doesn't do something doesn't mean the approach is invalid for other things. Because curve tracers do not provide insight on noise characteristics doesn't me they aren't useful for their intended purpose. I have a fairly solid academic background in EE but admittedly rusty in certain areas. I took extra courses in semiconductor physics even though it was not my major and that was many years ago.
noob from Google Groups five minutes ago with a bunch of demands
dropping your credentials like anyone care. Who is even you?
> 6) unmoderated public forum. Right - anybody can say anything on any topic. My expectations for ppl to stay on topic was apparently incorrect. My expectation of professionals providing feed back in a professional manner was not met by a number of the responses, to which I am unpleasantly surprised. I am used to a higher standard, even in unmoderated groups. My expectations have been 'recalibrated.'
> I appreciate the helpful feedback from you and other.
> Peace,
> J
"own" a thread you start and nobody was even talking to you when it went
off-topic.
Phil Allison
Oct 30, 2018, 2:06:43 AM10/30/18
to
three_jeeps wrote:
>
>
> Give it a rest man. I have some high end audio gear from the 80s and
Worked on quite a few of them and can say what many of the house or "secret" part numbers are.
.... Phil
.... Phil
>
>
> Give it a rest man. I have some high end audio gear from the 80s and
> I do some repair for friends/clients.
>
** Would that include amplifiers made by Phase Linear, SAE, Crown, BGW, Yamaha etc ?
>
Worked on quite a few of them and can say what many of the house or "secret" part numbers are.
.... Phil
.... Phil
whit3rd
Oct 30, 2018, 3:08:41 AM10/30/18
to
On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 6:26:53 PM UTC-7, bitrex wrote:
> My possibly-biased-by-youth opinion is that the transistor curve tracer
> is a mostly obsolete instrument from a time when transistors were
> expensive and manufacturing tolerances sucked balls and
> duff/under-performing parts were commonplace, that's not year of our
> Lord 2018, discrete transistors are cheap and quality is excellent.
Though the function of many devices is, as you say, excellent, yet
a few hours with a curve tracer is an important piece of experience to
have. Watch a semiconductor overheat, make smoke, and then... see
how it died (or how it recovers and continues to function when cooled).
When a transistor fails, it often passes the two-diodes testing, but a
curve trace that shows it to have 6V breakdown instead of 80V, is
giving you priceless information.
> Like maybe if you needed to well-characterize RF or microwave amp
> transistors to get all the relevant information...
Yes, a curve tracer is an exploratory tool, and gives good service at the
borders of the known. That may be RF, or it may be Zener noise, or it
may be Early effect, or any of the characteristics that a design (or repair)
will hinge on. Specification sheets just do NOT cover everything, it
takes some exploration too.
Don't leave the well-blazed trail without your axe, compass, and curve tracer.
> On 10/28/2018 08:46 PM, jjhu...@gmail.com wrote:
> > I am repairing some high end audio amps and cassette decks that have house numbered semiconductors, mainly transistors as well as JDEC p/n that are NLA.
> > Basically what I am looking for is a curve tracer that has ...
> > I am repairing some high end audio amps and cassette decks that have house numbered semiconductors, mainly transistors as well as JDEC p/n that are NLA.
> My possibly-biased-by-youth opinion is that the transistor curve tracer
> is a mostly obsolete instrument from a time when transistors were
> expensive and manufacturing tolerances sucked balls and
> duff/under-performing parts were commonplace, that's not year of our
> Lord 2018, discrete transistors are cheap and quality is excellent.
Though the function of many devices is, as you say, excellent, yet
a few hours with a curve tracer is an important piece of experience to
have. Watch a semiconductor overheat, make smoke, and then... see
how it died (or how it recovers and continues to function when cooled).
When a transistor fails, it often passes the two-diodes testing, but a
curve trace that shows it to have 6V breakdown instead of 80V, is
giving you priceless information.
> Like maybe if you needed to well-characterize RF or microwave amp
> transistors to get all the relevant information...
Yes, a curve tracer is an exploratory tool, and gives good service at the
borders of the known. That may be RF, or it may be Zener noise, or it
may be Early effect, or any of the characteristics that a design (or repair)
will hinge on. Specification sheets just do NOT cover everything, it
takes some exploration too.
Don't leave the well-blazed trail without your axe, compass, and curve tracer.
Tom Gardner
Oct 30, 2018, 4:33:08 AM10/30/18
to
On 30/10/18 01:25, jjhu...@gmail.com wrote:
> I did reply to your first post but I forgot and did it in my email and it
> didn't get posted.
> I did reply to your first post but I forgot and did it in my email and it
> didn't get posted.
> 6) unmoderated public forum. Right - anybody can say anything on any topic.
> My expectations for ppl to stay on topic was apparently incorrect. My
> expectation of professionals providing feed back in a professional manner was
> not met by a number of the responses, to which I am unpleasantly surprised.
> I am used to a higher standard, even in unmoderated groups. My expectations
> have been 'recalibrated.' I appreciate the helpful feedback from you and
> other. Peace, J
So clearly you haven't bothered to read /any/ other threads
> My expectations for ppl to stay on topic was apparently incorrect. My
> expectation of professionals providing feed back in a professional manner was
> not met by a number of the responses, to which I am unpleasantly surprised.
> I am used to a higher standard, even in unmoderated groups. My expectations
> have been 'recalibrated.' I appreciate the helpful feedback from you and
> other. Peace, J
in this group!
When wandering into a room/forum/group/etc it is considered
wise to listen/read for a bit so that your contributions can
"fit in" with other people's contributions.
If you can't stand the heat (and can't even remember to hit the
"send" button"!), stay out of the kitchen.
Phil Allison
Oct 30, 2018, 4:48:44 AM10/30/18
to
whit3rd wrote:
>
> > > I am repairing some high end audio amps and cassette decks that have house numbered semiconductors, mainly transistors as well as JDEC p/n that are NLA.
>
> > > Basically what I am looking for is a curve tracer that has ...
>
> > My possibly-biased-by-youth opinion is that the transistor curve tracer
> > is a mostly obsolete instrument from a time when transistors were
> > expensive and manufacturing tolerances sucked balls and
> > duff/under-performing parts were commonplace, that's not year of our
> > Lord 2018, discrete transistors are cheap and quality is excellent.
>
>
> Though the function of many devices is, as you say, excellent, yet
> a few hours with a curve tracer is an important piece of experience to
> have. Watch a semiconductor overheat, make smoke, and then... see
> how it died (or how it recovers and continues to function when cooled).
>
** The device is ruined, wot a pile of BS.
>
> > > I am repairing some high end audio amps and cassette decks that have house numbered semiconductors, mainly transistors as well as JDEC p/n that are NLA.
>
> > > Basically what I am looking for is a curve tracer that has ...
>
> > My possibly-biased-by-youth opinion is that the transistor curve tracer
> > is a mostly obsolete instrument from a time when transistors were
> > expensive and manufacturing tolerances sucked balls and
> > duff/under-performing parts were commonplace, that's not year of our
> > Lord 2018, discrete transistors are cheap and quality is excellent.
>
>
> Though the function of many devices is, as you say, excellent, yet
> a few hours with a curve tracer is an important piece of experience to
> have. Watch a semiconductor overheat, make smoke, and then... see
> how it died (or how it recovers and continues to function when cooled).
>
> When a transistor fails, it often passes the two-diodes testing, but a
> curve trace that shows it to have 6V breakdown instead of 80V, is
> giving you priceless information.
>
There are many far cheaper & simpler ways to do that test.
> > Like maybe if you needed to well-characterize RF or microwave amp
> > transistors to get all the relevant information...
>
> Yes, a curve tracer is an exploratory tool, and gives good service at the
> borders of the known. That may be RF, or it may be Zener noise, or it
> may be Early effect, or any of the characteristics that a design (or repair)
> will hinge on. Specification sheets just do NOT cover everything, it
> takes some exploration too.
>
> Don't leave the well-blazed trail without your axe, compass, and curve tracer.
..... Phil
jurb...@gmail.com
Oct 30, 2018, 8:54:19 AM10/30/18
to
>"why in the world would I join a party so beloved by these whackjob "Real America" holy-roller evangelicals? scumbag scam-artists the lot of 'em and anyone who panders to them"
I don't fucking "pander" to anyone. And why support them ? Because as bad as they are they are a hell of alot better for the country than the filthy despicable democrats who are acting like spoiled children.
You disagree fine, see you at the polls. If any of your kind tries to bother me at the polls I will gut them with a fucking brick.
We are tired of leftists killing business and brainwashing people that it is how it is. We are sick of arguing gun control with a bunch of people who eat soap and don't know what bathroom to use. We are not having your homosexual sex in kindergarten nor tearing down every fucking statue in this country.
Democrats can go fuck themselves and the fucking jet they flew to the "green" conference in. Fuck those cunt of theirs crawling out of the woodwork.
I don't care if Trump rapes 25 nuns and burns them in the fucking street, if no other REPUBLICAN is available he has my vote. I will never vote for any democrat no matter what.
After that they did, no matter what. I do not care who the fuck the republicans run, the democrats will never ever get my vote.
The senate is in the bag, we might even keep the house. It wasn't always that way, it looked like democrats would take the house but after their violence and other ridiculous bullshit that is now in jeopardy. They are LOSING voters. I have corresponded with quite a few people who are the same, no more democrats. One even says he admits to being a bleeding heart liberal, but will never vote democrat again.
I don't fucking "pander" to anyone. And why support them ? Because as bad as they are they are a hell of alot better for the country than the filthy despicable democrats who are acting like spoiled children.
You disagree fine, see you at the polls. If any of your kind tries to bother me at the polls I will gut them with a fucking brick.
We are tired of leftists killing business and brainwashing people that it is how it is. We are sick of arguing gun control with a bunch of people who eat soap and don't know what bathroom to use. We are not having your homosexual sex in kindergarten nor tearing down every fucking statue in this country.
Democrats can go fuck themselves and the fucking jet they flew to the "green" conference in. Fuck those cunt of theirs crawling out of the woodwork.
I don't care if Trump rapes 25 nuns and burns them in the fucking street, if no other REPUBLICAN is available he has my vote. I will never vote for any democrat no matter what.
After that they did, no matter what. I do not care who the fuck the republicans run, the democrats will never ever get my vote.
The senate is in the bag, we might even keep the house. It wasn't always that way, it looked like democrats would take the house but after their violence and other ridiculous bullshit that is now in jeopardy. They are LOSING voters. I have corresponded with quite a few people who are the same, no more democrats. One even says he admits to being a bleeding heart liberal, but will never vote democrat again.
jurb...@gmail.com
Oct 30, 2018, 9:04:35 AM10/30/18
to
>"11PM and I forgot to eat dinner. Argh. "
You would switch gods if you had one of these pork chops I made last night. Just about the right time. It was done at about 2:00 AM so over there that is what, 3 hours behind ? Would have been nice and hot. I would have to put on a bag of rice though. I can cook but I can't make rice. I use the boil in a bag stuff.
I guess I could make it that way with beef...
You would switch gods if you had one of these pork chops I made last night. Just about the right time. It was done at about 2:00 AM so over there that is what, 3 hours behind ? Would have been nice and hot. I would have to put on a bag of rice though. I can cook but I can't make rice. I use the boil in a bag stuff.
I guess I could make it that way with beef...
John Larkin
Oct 30, 2018, 11:15:30 AM10/30/18
to
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
John Larkin
Oct 30, 2018, 11:22:15 AM10/30/18
to
On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 22:16:53 -0400, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:
>I'm probably too long-time New Englander for that I'm afraid, why in the
>I'm probably too long-time New Englander for that I'm afraid, why in the
>world would I join a party so beloved by these whackjob "Real America"
>holy-roller evangelicals? scumbag scam-artists the lot of 'em and anyone
>who panders to them
Tribalism in action. That's a lot easier than thinking.
>holy-roller evangelicals? scumbag scam-artists the lot of 'em and anyone
>who panders to them
John Larkin
Oct 30, 2018, 11:27:17 AM10/30/18
to
On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 22:38:58 -0400, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:
>On 10/28/2018 10:34 PM, Clifford Heath wrote:
>> On 29/10/18 12:33 pm, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> ""youth", in quotes I'm just shy of 40"
>>>
>>> Wow, that explains why you're not conservative. You will be in about
>>> ten years, and don't worry, it doesn't hurt.
>>
>> As the saying goes...
>>
>> If you're not a socialist when you're young, you have no heart;
>> If you're not a capitalist when you're old, you have no brain.
>>
>> :)
>
>"We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white
>children, because the beauty of the White Aryan woman must not perish
>from the Earth."
There are some dynamite white aryan women; I'd hate to lose them.
There are gorgeous african and asian women too; let's protect and
preserve them all.
>
>The "beauty of the White Aryan woman" could stand to lose about 35
>pounds on average in this country, it's way more likely to perish from
>heart disease than Mexicans
I like skinny women, but I know guys who prefer "more to grab." Nature
provides.
>On 10/28/2018 10:34 PM, Clifford Heath wrote:
>> On 29/10/18 12:33 pm, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> ""youth", in quotes I'm just shy of 40"
>>>
>>> Wow, that explains why you're not conservative. You will be in about
>>> ten years, and don't worry, it doesn't hurt.
>>
>> As the saying goes...
>>
>> If you're not a socialist when you're young, you have no heart;
>> If you're not a capitalist when you're old, you have no brain.
>>
>> :)
>
>"We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white
>children, because the beauty of the White Aryan woman must not perish
>from the Earth."
There are some dynamite white aryan women; I'd hate to lose them.
There are gorgeous african and asian women too; let's protect and
preserve them all.
>
>The "beauty of the White Aryan woman" could stand to lose about 35
>pounds on average in this country, it's way more likely to perish from
>heart disease than Mexicans
I like skinny women, but I know guys who prefer "more to grab." Nature
provides.
John Larkin
Oct 30, 2018, 11:28:05 AM10/30/18
to
On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 20:00:13 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:
>On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 18:33:48 -0700 (PDT), jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>>""youth", in quotes I'm just shy of 40 "
>>
>>Wow, that explains why you're not conservative. You will be
>>in about ten years, and don't worry, it doesn't hurt.
>
>Y're right. I'm just short of 71. I started out as a radical
>leftist, commie pinko, anti-everything, chronically protesting, hippie
>freak:
><http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/jeffl/slides/jeffl-06.html>
>Fast forward about 40 years, and today I'm an arch conservative,
>somewhat reactionary, right leaning, registered Republican, member of
>the establishment:
><http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/jeffl/slides/jeffl-08.html>
>It can and probably will happen to you. Resistance is futile.
That's just accumulated wisdom.
wrote:
>On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 18:33:48 -0700 (PDT), jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>>""youth", in quotes I'm just shy of 40 "
>>
>>Wow, that explains why you're not conservative. You will be
>>in about ten years, and don't worry, it doesn't hurt.
>
>leftist, commie pinko, anti-everything, chronically protesting, hippie
>freak:
><http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/jeffl/slides/jeffl-06.html>
>Fast forward about 40 years, and today I'm an arch conservative,
>somewhat reactionary, right leaning, registered Republican, member of
>the establishment:
><http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/jeffl/slides/jeffl-08.html>
>It can and probably will happen to you. Resistance is futile.
That's just accumulated wisdom.
bitrex
Oct 30, 2018, 11:33:17 AM10/30/18
to
On 10/30/2018 08:54 AM, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
>> "why in the world would I join a party so beloved by these whackjob "Real America" holy-roller evangelicals? scumbag scam-artists the lot of 'em and anyone who panders to them"
>
> I don't fucking "pander" to anyone. And why support them ? Because as bad as they are they are a hell of alot better for the country than the filthy despicable democrats who are acting like spoiled children.
>
> You disagree fine, see you at the polls. If any of your kind tries to bother me at the polls I will gut them with a fucking brick.
>
> We are tired of leftists killing business and brainwashing people that it is how it is. We are sick of arguing gun control with a bunch of people who eat soap and don't know what bathroom to use. We are not having your homosexual sex in kindergarten nor tearing down every fucking statue in this country.
lol ya, homosexual sex in kindergarten that's the plan. Hillary Clinton
>> "why in the world would I join a party so beloved by these whackjob "Real America" holy-roller evangelicals? scumbag scam-artists the lot of 'em and anyone who panders to them"
>
> I don't fucking "pander" to anyone. And why support them ? Because as bad as they are they are a hell of alot better for the country than the filthy despicable democrats who are acting like spoiled children.
>
> You disagree fine, see you at the polls. If any of your kind tries to bother me at the polls I will gut them with a fucking brick.
>
> We are tired of leftists killing business and brainwashing people that it is how it is. We are sick of arguing gun control with a bunch of people who eat soap and don't know what bathroom to use. We are not having your homosexual sex in kindergarten nor tearing down every fucking statue in this country.
runs a child sex dungeon in a DC pizza parlor, too.
> Democrats can go fuck themselves and the fucking jet they flew to the "green" conference in. Fuck those cunt of theirs crawling out of the woodwork.
>
> I don't care if Trump rapes 25 nuns and burns them in the fucking street, if no other REPUBLICAN is available he has my vote. I will never vote for any democrat no matter what.
> After that they did, no matter what. I do not care who the fuck the republicans run, the democrats will never ever get my vote.
>
> The senate is in the bag, we might even keep the house. It wasn't always that way, it looked like democrats would take the house but after their violence and other ridiculous bullshit that is now in jeopardy. They are LOSING voters. I have corresponded with quite a few people who are the same, no more democrats. One even says he admits to being a bleeding heart liberal, but will never vote democrat again.
>
get old and cranky, and America has an aging population.
e.g. as I mentioned prior the guy who takes a swing to the right after
his first wife divorces him. I don't usually have a lot of sympathy for
those guys I could generally spot these bad-news women coming a mile off
why couldn't they.
As for anyone who runs lines like "I will never..." or "I always..."
there are words for people like that it is called "full of shit."
Tom Gardner
Oct 30, 2018, 11:33:26 AM10/30/18
to
sprouts sarnies. (And infer what I'm /not/ saying :) )
John Larkin
Oct 30, 2018, 11:35:03 AM10/30/18
to
On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 01:34:41 -0400, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:
>On 10/28/2018 11:00 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 18:33:48 -0700 (PDT), jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>> ""youth", in quotes I'm just shy of 40"
>>>
>>> Wow, that explains why you're not conservative. You will be
>>> in about ten years, and don't worry, it doesn't hurt.
>>
>> Y're right. I'm just short of 71. I started out as a radical
>> leftist, commie pinko, anti-everything, chronically protesting, hippie
>> freak:
>> <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/jeffl/slides/jeffl-06.html>
>> Fast forward about 40 years, and today I'm an arch conservative,
>> somewhat reactionary, right leaning, registered Republican, member of
>> the establishment:
>
>Woah, how unusual.
>sellouts with no real values who'd gladly hawk their souls for ten
>bucks. We know, already ;-)
The real problem is that young people tend to think they understand
everything, and that everything is simple. Experience usually teaches
us that many important things are not predictable; otherwise we'd all
still be wearing bell-bottom jeans. The realization that we don't
always understand causalities tempers our enthusiasm for controlling
everything.
"Capitalism" make progress by random mutation and selection, just like
evolution (theoretically) works. Socialism is top-down management,
which is inevitably both corrupt and wrecked by unexpected
consequences.
>On 10/28/2018 11:00 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 18:33:48 -0700 (PDT), jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>> ""youth", in quotes I'm just shy of 40"
>>>
>>> Wow, that explains why you're not conservative. You will be
>>> in about ten years, and don't worry, it doesn't hurt.
>>
>> Y're right. I'm just short of 71. I started out as a radical
>> leftist, commie pinko, anti-everything, chronically protesting, hippie
>> freak:
>> <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/jeffl/slides/jeffl-06.html>
>> Fast forward about 40 years, and today I'm an arch conservative,
>> somewhat reactionary, right leaning, registered Republican, member of
>> the establishment:
>
>
>> <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/jeffl/slides/jeffl-08.html>
>> It can and probably will happen to you. Resistance is futile.
>>
>>
>
>You don't have to explain to us that the "baby boomer" generation were
>> <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/jeffl/slides/jeffl-08.html>
>> It can and probably will happen to you. Resistance is futile.
>>
>>
>
>sellouts with no real values who'd gladly hawk their souls for ten
>bucks. We know, already ;-)
The real problem is that young people tend to think they understand
everything, and that everything is simple. Experience usually teaches
us that many important things are not predictable; otherwise we'd all
still be wearing bell-bottom jeans. The realization that we don't
always understand causalities tempers our enthusiasm for controlling
everything.
"Capitalism" make progress by random mutation and selection, just like
evolution (theoretically) works. Socialism is top-down management,
which is inevitably both corrupt and wrecked by unexpected
consequences.
bitrex
Oct 30, 2018, 11:40:43 AM10/30/18
to
On 10/30/2018 11:22 AM, John Larkin wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 22:16:53 -0400, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:
>
>
>> I'm probably too long-time New Englander for that I'm afraid, why in the
>> world would I join a party so beloved by these whackjob "Real America"
>> holy-roller evangelicals? scumbag scam-artists the lot of 'em and anyone
>> who panders to them
>
> Tribalism in action. That's a lot easier than thinking.
>
>
Yeah, a "tribe" of zealots who believe they have some
> On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 22:16:53 -0400, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:
>
>
>> I'm probably too long-time New Englander for that I'm afraid, why in the
>> world would I join a party so beloved by these whackjob "Real America"
>> holy-roller evangelicals? scumbag scam-artists the lot of 'em and anyone
>> who panders to them
>
> Tribalism in action. That's a lot easier than thinking.
>
>
spiritual/metaphysical connection to Israel and enjoy attempting to
remake America into congruence with Old Testament Israelite biblical
laws for whatever purpose. which IMO has little to do with the
principles America was founded on, or any interpretation of Christianity
which either myself or my own ancestors would have been familiar with.
It is who the Right panders to, because without their habitual support
the GOP is nothing.
John Larkin
Oct 30, 2018, 11:43:25 AM10/30/18
to
On Tue, 30 Oct 2018 11:33:09 -0400, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:
>On 10/30/2018 08:54 AM, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> "why in the world would I join a party so beloved by these whackjob "Real America" holy-roller evangelicals? scumbag scam-artists the lot of 'em and anyone who panders to them"
>>
>> I don't fucking "pander" to anyone. And why support them ? Because as bad as they are they are a hell of alot better for the country than the filthy despicable democrats who are acting like spoiled children.
>>
>> You disagree fine, see you at the polls. If any of your kind tries to bother me at the polls I will gut them with a fucking brick.
>>
>> We are tired of leftists killing business and brainwashing people that it is how it is. We are sick of arguing gun control with a bunch of people who eat soap and don't know what bathroom to use. We are not having your homosexual sex in kindergarten nor tearing down every fucking statue in this country.
>
>lol ya, homosexual sex in kindergarten that's the plan. Hillary Clinton
>runs a child sex dungeon in a DC pizza parlor, too.
That's just a goofy rumor of a few loonies. On the other hand, she did
>On 10/30/2018 08:54 AM, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> "why in the world would I join a party so beloved by these whackjob "Real America" holy-roller evangelicals? scumbag scam-artists the lot of 'em and anyone who panders to them"
>>
>> I don't fucking "pander" to anyone. And why support them ? Because as bad as they are they are a hell of alot better for the country than the filthy despicable democrats who are acting like spoiled children.
>>
>> You disagree fine, see you at the polls. If any of your kind tries to bother me at the polls I will gut them with a fucking brick.
>>
>> We are tired of leftists killing business and brainwashing people that it is how it is. We are sick of arguing gun control with a bunch of people who eat soap and don't know what bathroom to use. We are not having your homosexual sex in kindergarten nor tearing down every fucking statue in this country.
>
>lol ya, homosexual sex in kindergarten that's the plan. Hillary Clinton
>runs a child sex dungeon in a DC pizza parlor, too.
kill Muammar Gaddafi and laugh about it, and precipitate astounding
levels of misery and death in Africa and Europe.
Bill admitted that he ignored the genicide in Rwanda, killing about
another million.
What a couple.
bitrex
Oct 30, 2018, 11:45:44 AM10/30/18
to
pussy-grabbin' President. But good grief please don't try preaching to
anyone about their soul at this point or some Kingdom of God-Moral
Majority nonsense. It's a bit much.
bitrex
Oct 30, 2018, 11:54:48 AM10/30/18
to
time. As I recall from the history books seeing dead US troops dragged
thru the streets of Mogadishu had a pretty negative effect on morale for
foreign adventures in Africa back home at the time.
Mr. Clinton probably figured there was little public will to send troops
into harms way again to save the lives of n**** over in what I guess is
popularly called a "shithole country" now. And I also recall few in the
US cared about the Rwandan genocide at the time, and fewer still
probably remember it presently.
I think he just "knew his audience." If Americans had all demanded it in
a great uproar of anti-genocide social justice sentiment it would have
happened.
bitrex
Oct 30, 2018, 12:08:19 PM10/30/18
to
On 10/30/2018 11:43 AM, John Larkin wrote:
rhetoric vis a vis "big government spending" and hacking away at Social
Security and welfare programs. Even Democratic presidents have to "know
their audience" from time to time and can't be Mother Theresa all day
because Americans, on average, do not like that.
Even though the fact is that if you actually wanted to significantly
reduce government spending and cut the fat there are many more
productive areas to look than the ones both parties (because it plays
well from a PR-perspective) tend to look on the balance sheet.
John Larkin
Oct 30, 2018, 12:17:55 PM10/30/18
to
middle of America and defined the entire population of one side to be
stupid and evil. That's tribalism. No thinking necessary.
If I were alone and freezing on some seldom-traveled road, I'd sure
prefer the only vehicle that shows up to be a pickup driven by a
farmer than a Volvo driven by a laywer.
bitrex
Oct 30, 2018, 12:18:15 PM10/30/18
to
Dear Leader can initiate a mandatory morning exercise program. Side
effects include feeling good and living longer so it's a win-win
bitrex
Oct 30, 2018, 12:42:58 PM10/30/18
to
America" is. No not everyone who lives in "the country" is stupid or
evil. Maybe it's changed from what you recall but I grew up in a
different time, I've spent time in West Virginia and Ohio when I was
younger and in the late 80s and 90s if you're poor the places I was are
not at all fun places to be, drug use, crime, violence, places where
both my college girlfriend _and_ her high school boyfriend had been
sexually assaulted as children by family or family friends.
And these places were white as white can be, few Hispanics or blacks to
speak of. probably a good idea on the latter part not to move there.
It's not all bad by any means but this holy-roller Kingdom of God stuff
is from my perspective well known to be a bit of a facade. Peek behind
it and I tell ya you may not at all like what you see.
John Larkin
Oct 30, 2018, 12:47:23 PM10/30/18
to
On Tue, 30 Oct 2018 12:18:10 -0400, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:
>On 10/30/2018 11:27 AM, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 22:38:58 -0400, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/28/2018 10:34 PM, Clifford Heath wrote:
>>>> On 29/10/18 12:33 pm, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>> ""youth", in quotes I'm just shy of 40"
>>>>>
>>>>> Wow, that explains why you're not conservative. You will be in about
>>>>> ten years, and don't worry, it doesn't hurt.
>>>>
>>>> As the saying goes...
>>>>
>>>> If you're not a socialist when you're young, you have no heart;
>>>> If you're not a capitalist when you're old, you have no brain.
>>>>
>>>> :)
>>>
>>> "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white
>>> children, because the beauty of the White Aryan woman must not perish
>>>from the Earth."
>>
>> There are some dynamite white aryan women; I'd hate to lose them.
>>
>> There are gorgeous african and asian women too; let's protect and
>> preserve them all.
>>
>>>
>>> The "beauty of the White Aryan woman" could stand to lose about 35
>>> pounds on average in this country, it's way more likely to perish from
>>> heart disease than Mexicans
>>
>> I like skinny women, but I know guys who prefer "more to grab." Nature
>> provides.
>>
>>
>
>America can best help the third world by going on a diet, IMO.
How so? The third world needs to stop killing one another and grow
>On 10/30/2018 11:27 AM, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 22:38:58 -0400, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/28/2018 10:34 PM, Clifford Heath wrote:
>>>> On 29/10/18 12:33 pm, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>> ""youth", in quotes I'm just shy of 40"
>>>>>
>>>>> Wow, that explains why you're not conservative. You will be in about
>>>>> ten years, and don't worry, it doesn't hurt.
>>>>
>>>> As the saying goes...
>>>>
>>>> If you're not a socialist when you're young, you have no heart;
>>>> If you're not a capitalist when you're old, you have no brain.
>>>>
>>>> :)
>>>
>>> "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white
>>> children, because the beauty of the White Aryan woman must not perish
>>>from the Earth."
>>
>> There are some dynamite white aryan women; I'd hate to lose them.
>>
>> There are gorgeous african and asian women too; let's protect and
>> preserve them all.
>>
>>>
>>> The "beauty of the White Aryan woman" could stand to lose about 35
>>> pounds on average in this country, it's way more likely to perish from
>>> heart disease than Mexicans
>>
>> I like skinny women, but I know guys who prefer "more to grab." Nature
>> provides.
>>
>>
>
>America can best help the third world by going on a diet, IMO.
more food and get more energy and medicine and education. My eating a
salad for lunch, instead of a bagel dog, isn't going to eliminate
famine in North Korea.
> Maybe
>Dear Leader can initiate a mandatory morning exercise program. Side
>effects include feeling good and living longer so it's a win-win
other people to follow their rules?
bitrex
Oct 30, 2018, 12:47:44 PM10/30/18
to
On 10/30/2018 12:42 PM, bitrex wrote:
>> You, and a lot of other people, have drawn a left/right line down the
>> middle of America and defined the entire population of one side to be
>> stupid and evil. That's tribalism. No thinking necessary.
>>
>> If I were alone and freezing on some seldom-traveled road, I'd sure
>> prefer the only vehicle that shows up to be a pickup driven by a
>> farmer than a Volvo driven by a laywer.
>>
>>
>
> and I think you have an idealized idea of what good ol' boy "Real
> America" is. No not everyone who lives in "the country" is stupid or
> evil. Maybe it's changed from what you recall but I grew up in a
> different time, I've spent time in West Virginia and Ohio when I was
> younger and in the late 80s and 90s if you're poor the places I was are
> not at all fun places to be, drug use, crime, violence
And it is by and large their own fault. Not Obama's or Clinton's or
>> You, and a lot of other people, have drawn a left/right line down the
>> middle of America and defined the entire population of one side to be
>> stupid and evil. That's tribalism. No thinking necessary.
>>
>> If I were alone and freezing on some seldom-traveled road, I'd sure
>> prefer the only vehicle that shows up to be a pickup driven by a
>> farmer than a Volvo driven by a laywer.
>>
>>
>
> and I think you have an idealized idea of what good ol' boy "Real
> America" is. No not everyone who lives in "the country" is stupid or
> evil. Maybe it's changed from what you recall but I grew up in a
> different time, I've spent time in West Virginia and Ohio when I was
> younger and in the late 80s and 90s if you're poor the places I was are
> not at all fun places to be, drug use, crime, violence
nobody else's. Their own. It could be different.
bitrex
Oct 30, 2018, 2:25:47 PM10/30/18
to
On 10/30/2018 12:47 PM, John Larkin wrote:
>> America can best help the third world by going on a diet, IMO.
>
> How so? The third world needs to stop killing one another and grow
> more food and get more energy and medicine and education. My eating a
> salad for lunch, instead of a bagel dog, isn't going to eliminate
> famine in North Korea.
>
>
>> Maybe
>> Dear Leader can initiate a mandatory morning exercise program. Side
>> effects include feeling good and living longer so it's a win-win
>
> Why do so many people think they are right and should therefore force
> other people to follow their rules?
If Real America doesn't wish to subsidize my decadent coastal elite
>> America can best help the third world by going on a diet, IMO.
>
> How so? The third world needs to stop killing one another and grow
> more food and get more energy and medicine and education. My eating a
> salad for lunch, instead of a bagel dog, isn't going to eliminate
> famine in North Korea.
>
>
>> Maybe
>> Dear Leader can initiate a mandatory morning exercise program. Side
>> effects include feeling good and living longer so it's a win-win
>
> Why do so many people think they are right and should therefore force
> other people to follow their rules?
lifestyle that's fine, but I shouldn't have to subsidize obesity either
it raises my health insurance costs. The Northeast has some of the
lowest obesity rates in the country so fair's fair.
Tom Del Rosso
Oct 30, 2018, 2:46:36 PM10/30/18
to
tabb...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> I can't help thinking that with the help of a bit of eyesight
> persistence one could very simply get a scope to display a set of
> curves without even so much as resorting to a microprocessor. The
> mu-p would make it easier I expect, but the point is it doesn't look
> like a tricky problem.
Let Jim Thompson provide the staircase to test at different levels.
https://electrooptical.net/static/oldsite/www.analog-innovations.com/SED/CP-Style-Counter.pdf
Thanks also to Phil's mirror of the site.
>
> I can't help thinking that with the help of a bit of eyesight
> persistence one could very simply get a scope to display a set of
> curves without even so much as resorting to a microprocessor. The
> mu-p would make it easier I expect, but the point is it doesn't look
> like a tricky problem.
Let Jim Thompson provide the staircase to test at different levels.
https://electrooptical.net/static/oldsite/www.analog-innovations.com/SED/CP-Style-Counter.pdf
Thanks also to Phil's mirror of the site.
bitrex
Oct 30, 2018, 4:07:50 PM10/30/18
to
(in quotes) in the US is heavily top-down already, to the point the
interests of industry vs. government are often indistinguishable. See
also: crony capitalism.
bitrex
Oct 30, 2018, 4:14:26 PM10/30/18
to
On 10/30/2018 11:34 AM, John Larkin wrote:
economies work in third-world countries; in the 20th century at least
the US shows up and bumps off the leadership and sets up puppet
dictatorships before anyone who seems like they might be good at the job
gets much of a chance.
bitrex
Oct 30, 2018, 4:17:57 PM10/30/18
to
On 10/30/2018 11:34 AM, John Larkin wrote:
there is on the government's payroll in some form or another don't hear
too much complaint about them, they're one of our best friends apparently.
bitrex
Oct 30, 2018, 4:26:03 PM10/30/18
to
there's at least as much science to it as there is art
John Larkin
Oct 30, 2018, 6:13:08 PM10/30/18
to
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4tr7pbpez3xosdi/CBP.txt?raw=1
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
Tom Gardner
Oct 30, 2018, 6:43:12 PM10/30/18
to
by Jeff Potter
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cooking-Geeks-Science-Great-Hacks/dp/0596805888
Some of that is relatively hardcore, e.g. which proteins bugs survive
which temperatures.
whit3rd
Oct 30, 2018, 6:47:59 PM10/30/18
to
On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 8:43:25 AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Oct 2018 11:33:09 -0400, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:
> >.... Hillary Clinton
> On Tue, 30 Oct 2018 11:33:09 -0400, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:
> >runs a child sex dungeon in a DC pizza parlor, too.
> That's just a goofy rumor of a few loonies. On the other hand, she did
> kill Muammar Gaddafi and laugh about it, and precipitate astounding
> levels of misery and death in Africa and Europe.
Nonsense, Gaddafi was in the middle of a revolution BEFORE a score of countries
> That's just a goofy rumor of a few loonies. On the other hand, she did
> kill Muammar Gaddafi and laugh about it, and precipitate astounding
> levels of misery and death in Africa and Europe.
(at French insistance) did a relatively mild intervention. A US secretary of
state at the time, Hilary wasn't there when Gaddafi died. As for
laughing, that's just free speech - recall, Gaddafi DID confess to the
Lockerbie bombing, which is a NATO offense we oughtn't forget.
Lasse Langwadt Christensen
Oct 30, 2018, 6:53:20 PM10/30/18
to
cooking though there is still plenty of science to what things taste
well together and what doesn't and what temperatures and processes are
required to get the desired results
Dimitrij Klingbeil
Oct 30, 2018, 8:27:33 PM10/30/18
to
On 2018-10-30 02:34, jjhu...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 6:03:58 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
>>
>> Keysight has a curve tracer, the B1505A Power Device Analyzer.
>> It's around $80K.
>>
>> We have a couple of their SMUs, which can be programmed to do
>> curve tracing, and lots more.
> $200 USD, I'd consider it. J
>
That $200 does not seem to be in any Tek or HP price range that ever
existed, probably not even for a used instrument :(
Even the most basic analog models in China (like the Wuqiang WQ4832)
retail for slightly over 3000 Yuan there (about $430), and that's
probably the closest one can get to a that price (for a new instrument).
Also about the same would be an unknown quality "4810-like" derivative
(like a QT4810A, CA-4810A or similar) from a no-name brand.
The original Xinjian XJ4810 (from which most of these were copied) was
rather more expensive, and I'm not sure whether they still make it.
The Xinjian QT-2A looks like it's still made, but that sets you back
some 6000 Yuan (about $860) plus significant shipping and ex/import
costs. Built like a tank, but at 30 kg not easily transportable.
Anything digital doesn't even seem to start below $2.5k and anything
high-power (like 100 A peak output) is at least from $5k upwards.
You can find the schematics of some of the older Chinese tracers from
the era of the planned economy. Back in the day they were printed in a
user manual supplement with detailed operation descriptions and how to
troubleshoot and calibrate them (unfortunately in Chinese only). There
are scanned copies of these manuals lurking in the depths of the net,
mostly on Chinese amateur radio forums and similar places.
Here is a set of schematics (without the test/cal instructions) of the
Xinjian QT2 - a "classic" that was in production for 40+ years.
http://www.crystalradio.cn/thread-556553-1-1.html
The poster put up these files packed with a "zip"-like program that is
not well known (not even in China, as the comments show), so here is a
more accessible copy, extracted out of the above "zip" files:
https://imgur.com/a/eJ5WeFK
A little story about it by an expat who lives in Shanghai, with some
historical references and pictures:
https://jazzbo8.wordpress.com/2012/12/22/my-new-curve-tracer-the-qt-2/
Now it's discontinued, but see above for the QT-2A followup model :)
> On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 6:03:58 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
>>
>> Keysight has a curve tracer, the B1505A Power Device Analyzer.
>> It's around $80K.
>>
>> We have a couple of their SMUs, which can be programmed to do
>> curve tracing, and lots more.
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc picosecond timing
>> precision measurement
>>
>> jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
>> http://www.highlandtechnology.com
>
> Thank you. A bit pricey for my needs but if they come down to <=
>>
>> --
>>
>> John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc picosecond timing
>> precision measurement
>>
>> jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
>> http://www.highlandtechnology.com
>
> $200 USD, I'd consider it. J
>
That $200 does not seem to be in any Tek or HP price range that ever
existed, probably not even for a used instrument :(
Even the most basic analog models in China (like the Wuqiang WQ4832)
retail for slightly over 3000 Yuan there (about $430), and that's
probably the closest one can get to a that price (for a new instrument).
Also about the same would be an unknown quality "4810-like" derivative
(like a QT4810A, CA-4810A or similar) from a no-name brand.
The original Xinjian XJ4810 (from which most of these were copied) was
rather more expensive, and I'm not sure whether they still make it.
The Xinjian QT-2A looks like it's still made, but that sets you back
some 6000 Yuan (about $860) plus significant shipping and ex/import
costs. Built like a tank, but at 30 kg not easily transportable.
Anything digital doesn't even seem to start below $2.5k and anything
high-power (like 100 A peak output) is at least from $5k upwards.
You can find the schematics of some of the older Chinese tracers from
the era of the planned economy. Back in the day they were printed in a
user manual supplement with detailed operation descriptions and how to
troubleshoot and calibrate them (unfortunately in Chinese only). There
are scanned copies of these manuals lurking in the depths of the net,
mostly on Chinese amateur radio forums and similar places.
Here is a set of schematics (without the test/cal instructions) of the
Xinjian QT2 - a "classic" that was in production for 40+ years.
http://www.crystalradio.cn/thread-556553-1-1.html
The poster put up these files packed with a "zip"-like program that is
not well known (not even in China, as the comments show), so here is a
more accessible copy, extracted out of the above "zip" files:
https://imgur.com/a/eJ5WeFK
A little story about it by an expat who lives in Shanghai, with some
historical references and pictures:
https://jazzbo8.wordpress.com/2012/12/22/my-new-curve-tracer-the-qt-2/
Now it's discontinued, but see above for the QT-2A followup model :)
bitrex
Oct 30, 2018, 9:06:18 PM10/30/18
to
years to be attempting to make amends for the past, decommissioning WMD
programs, paying reparations to the families of the Lockerbie bombing, etc.
Fat lot of good that did him in the end, which make no mistake Iran and
North Korea took careful note of.
bitrex
Oct 30, 2018, 9:14:52 PM10/30/18
to
make a strawberry nacho cheese dip? it will clearly taste twice as good
George Herold
Oct 30, 2018, 9:37:37 PM10/30/18
to
egg whites into a meringue?
George H.
tabb...@gmail.com
Oct 30, 2018, 10:41:07 PM10/30/18
to
On Tuesday, 30 October 2018 15:15:30 UTC, John Larkin wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Oct 2018 08:33:02 +0000, Tom Gardner
> <spam...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> >If you can't stand the heat (and can't even remember to hit the
> >"send" button"!), stay out of the kitchen.
>
> Does anybody want my custard bread pudding recipe?
drool but way too many calories
> On Tue, 30 Oct 2018 08:33:02 +0000, Tom Gardner
> <spam...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> >If you can't stand the heat (and can't even remember to hit the
> >"send" button"!), stay out of the kitchen.
>
> Does anybody want my custard bread pudding recipe?
NT
John Larkin
Oct 30, 2018, 10:45:35 PM10/30/18
to
worth $750b. Apple, 1.07 trillion.
Amazon, $750b. Sears, less than zero.
Looks like college dropouts beat crony capitalism pretty well.
That's random mutation and selection at work.
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
tabb...@gmail.com
Oct 30, 2018, 10:50:12 PM10/30/18
to
On Tuesday, 30 October 2018 20:14:26 UTC, bitrex wrote:
> It's also hard to get good data points on how well-managed socialist
> economies work in third-world countries;
which countries do you have in mind?
> It's also hard to get good data points on how well-managed socialist
> economies work in third-world countries;
NT
John Larkin
Oct 30, 2018, 10:53:33 PM10/30/18
to
If you use all four whole eggs in the bread pudding, it will be a bit
stiffer. I like the bottom, under the floating bread and fruit, to be
pretty soft custard-y.
I grew up on loafy sort of bread pudding, served with whisky sauce,
but I like this better now.
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
John Larkin
Oct 30, 2018, 10:58:42 PM10/30/18
to
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