Transistor Replacement
Guenter
I need to replace a transistor which I do not know what exactly it is.
It is labeled with
_______
| |
| K 7F |
|C 8050 |
| |
|___C___|
| | |
| | |
Anyone here who can give me a hint?
Best regards
Günter
petrus bitbyter
"Guenter" <gwe...@init-ka.de> schreef in bericht
news:3d708f81.0406...@posting.google.com...
Günter,
You'd better apply some more info. So what kind of transistor (power, small
signal) and the (part of) the circuit it's used in. The only answer I can
give, may be wrong because of lack of information.
Nevertheless: The transistor may be a 2SC8050, which is obsolete and rare. A
possible replacement is an SS8050.
petrus bitbyter
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.698 / Virus Database: 455 - Release Date: 2-6-2004
Frank Bemelman
It is probably a 2SC8050.
--
Thanks, Frank.
(remove 'x' and 'invalid' when replying by email)
Winfield Hill
>
> "Guenter" <gwe...@init-ka.de> schreef ...
>>
>> I need to replace a transistor which I do not know what
>> exactly it is. It is labeled with
>> _______
>> | |
>> | K 7F |
>> |C 8050 |
>> | |
>> |___C___|
>> | | |
>> | | |
>> Anyone here who can give me a hint?
>
> It is probably a 2SC8050.
Are you sure there is such a part?
Thanks,
- Win
(email: use hill_at_rowland-dot-org for now)
Spehro Pefhany
wrote:
It's an 8050, possibly Korean made, roughly based, I think, originally
on the 2SC8050, but now they have taken on a life of their own in
Asia less Japan.
Typical specs (they vary by the (many) manufacturer(s), as does the
pinout, I've got quantity of transistors with both the Japanese and
the US standard pinout.
Vceo 25V-30V
Vebo 5V -6V
Ic 800mA - 1.0A - 1.5A (depending on manufacturer)
Pc 625mW -1W (1W from a TO-92? not for long..)
hfe B bin -- (85-160)
C bin: 100-200 (120-200)
D bin: 150-300 (160-300)
ft 100-120MHz
Cob 9-13pF
You can probably substitute a hefty NPN such as a 2N4401 in most
applications (though the pinout could be wrong). If you really want a
couple pieces of pretty much the exact part, send me a few dollars for
the postage and padded envelope by Paypal and I'll send them out today
by airmail (have to go to the post office anyway).
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
sp...@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
Frank Bemelman
news:c9nfh...@drn.newsguy.com...
> Frank Bemelman wrote...
> >
> > "Guenter" <gwe...@init-ka.de> schreef ...
> >>
> >> I need to replace a transistor which I do not know what
> >> exactly it is. It is labeled with
> >> _______
> >> | |
> >> | K 7F |
> >> |C 8050 |
> >> | |
> >> |___C___|
> >> | | |
> >> | | |
> >> Anyone here who can give me a hint?
> >
> > It is probably a 2SC8050.
>
> Are you sure there is such a part?
At least one, albeit defective, owned by Guenter ;) Google only produces
half a page of transistor related hits, so it seems a rare item.
Winfield Hill
>
> Winfield asked...
>> Frank Bemelman wrote...
>>>
>>>
>>> It is probably a 2SC8050.
>>
>> Are you sure there is such a part?
>
> At least one, albeit defective, owned by Guenter ;) Google only
> produces half a page of transistor related hits, so it seems a
> rare item.
My favorite, "Witam! Przy braku mikrofonu zobacz tranzystor
2sc8050 jest na płytce z lewej strony obok MPSA92."
Hmm, Fairchild makes an mps8050.
this bit-@connect-2.co.uk R.Lewis
"Winfield Hill" <Winfiel...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:c9nfh...@drn.newsguy.com...
> Frank Bemelman wrote...
> >
> > "Guenter" <gwe...@init-ka.de> schreef ...
> >>
> >> I need to replace a transistor which I do not know what
> >> exactly it is. It is labeled with
> >> _______
> >> | |
> >> | K 7F |
> >> |C 8050 |
> >> | |
> >> |___C___|
> >> | | |
> >> | | |
> >> Anyone here who can give me a hint?
> >
> > It is probably a 2SC8050.
>
> Are you sure there is such a part?
>
much used by the Chinese/Indian knick knack alternative contractors.
economical in volume
Spehro Pefhany
<f.bem...@planet.invalid.nl> wrote:
>"Winfield Hill" <Winfiel...@newsguy.com> schreef in bericht
>news:c9nfh...@drn.newsguy.com...
>> Frank Bemelman wrote...
>> >
>> > "Guenter" <gwe...@init-ka.de> schreef ...
>> >>
>> >> I need to replace a transistor which I do not know what
>> >> exactly it is. It is labeled with
>> >> _______
>> >> | |
>> >> | K 7F |
>> >> |C 8050 |
>> >> | |
>> >> |___C___|
>> >> | | |
>> >> | | |
>> >> Anyone here who can give me a hint?
>> >
>> > It is probably a 2SC8050.
>>
>> Are you sure there is such a part?
>
>At least one, albeit defective, owned by Guenter ;) Google only produces
>half a page of transistor related hits, so it seems a rare item.
There is no "2S" in there, note. And it's not in my (admittedly old,
but not that old) list of EIAJ-registered parts...
this bit-@connect-2.co.uk R.Lewis
"Spehro Pefhany" <spef...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote in message
news:il1vb0d6q2ilpc2ln...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 3 Jun 2004 19:10:53 +0200, the renowned "Frank Bemelman"
> <f.bem...@planet.invalid.nl> wrote:
>
> >"Winfield Hill" <Winfiel...@newsguy.com> schreef in bericht
> >news:c9nfh...@drn.newsguy.com...
> >> Frank Bemelman wrote...
> >> >
> >> > "Guenter" <gwe...@init-ka.de> schreef ...
> >> >>
> >> >> I need to replace a transistor which I do not know what
> >> >> exactly it is. It is labeled with
> >> >> _______
> >> >> | |
> >> >> | K 7F |
> >> >> |C 8050 |
> >> >> | |
> >> >> |___C___|
> >> >> | | |
> >> >> | | |
> >> >> Anyone here who can give me a hint?
> >> >
> >> > It is probably a 2SC8050.
> >>
> >> Are you sure there is such a part?
> >
> >At least one, albeit defective, owned by Guenter ;) Google only produces
> >half a page of transistor related hits, so it seems a rare item.
>
> There is no "2S" in there, note. And it's not in my (admittedly old,
> but not that old) list of EIAJ-registered parts...
>
see Unisonic Technologies Co Ltd
UTC S8050 'npn epitaxial silicon transistor'
for an example
they are not identical manf to manf if your use is critical - if your use is
thus critical use another animal.
plentiful and cheap.
Frank Bemelman
> Frank Bemelman wrote...
> >
> > Winfield asked...
> >> Frank Bemelman wrote...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> It is probably a 2SC8050.
> >>
> >> Are you sure there is such a part?
> >
> > At least one, albeit defective, owned by Guenter ;) Google only
> > produces half a page of transistor related hits, so it seems a
> > rare item.
>
> My favorite, "Witam! Przy braku mikrofonu zobacz tranzystor
> 2sc8050 jest na płytce z lewej strony obok MPSA92."
My favorite: 2SC8050 Equivalente funcional: SS8050
> Hmm, Fairchild makes an mps8050.
And SS8050 too.
http://www.fairchildsemi.com/pf/SS/SS8050.html
;)
Robert Baer
From the drawing, it is obviously a power device.
NPN, FET, PNP are all possibilities - in that order.
Stefan Heinzmann
[...]
2W power dissipation in a TO-92! Brave!
--
Cheers
Stefan
Spehro Pefhany
<stefan_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Frank Bemelman wrote:
>[...]
>> And SS8050 too.
>> http://www.fairchildsemi.com/pf/SS/SS8050.html
>
>2W power dissipation in a TO-92! Brave!
Well, if you can hold the *case* (not Ta) to a maximum of 25°C...
Winfield Hill
>
> Frank Bemelman wrote:
> [...]
>> And SS8050 too.
>> http://www.fairchildsemi.com/pf/SS/SS8050.html
>
> 2W power dissipation in a TO-92! Brave!
Strange, the Absolute Maximum Ratings table clearly says 1W.
And assuming Tc = 25C, which of course is nearly impossible.
The 2W proclaimed headline must be in error.
Zetex' Super-E-line TO-92 series is rated 1W, and some are
rated at 1.2W, e.g., the ZTX851 npn, capable of 20A peak!
Very nice, with a saturation voltage at 5A of 200mV (typ)
with a beta of 25. Their ZTX951 is a 15A pnp complement,
with saturation voltage of 220mV at 4A, beta of 10.
The Zetex 1W and 1.2W ratings are for Tamb = 25C, which
is more useful indeed. They also list a Ptotp = 1.58W.
Ptotp is "Practical Power Dissipation," defined as
"The power which can be dissipated assuming the device
is mounted in a typical manner on a P.C.B. with copper
equal to 1 inch square minimum." Now that's brave!
Winfield Hill
>
> Zetex' Super-E-line TO-92 series is rated 1W, and some are
>
> The Zetex 1W and 1.2W ratings are for Tamb = 25C, which
> is more useful indeed. They also list a Ptotp = 1.58W.
> Ptotp is "Practical Power Dissipation," defined as
> "The power which can be dissipated assuming the device
> is mounted in a typical manner on a P.C.B. with copper
> equal to 1 inch square minimum." Now that's brave!
From Zetex website FAQ,
Q. "Is an ELINE package a TO92?"
A. Not quite! Dimensionally, the E-Line is not as thick as
the TO92, though the lead length and lead spacing are identical.
It can be termed as TO92 compatible.
The E-Line uses a silicone encapsulant that is rated to a
much higher temperature than the common epoxies used for TO92
manufacture. This feature allows higher temperature operation,
higher power rating and much higher reliability. The E-Line
package is used primarily for higher performance transistor
die that, with the package advantages, usually allow the E-Line
option to replace (competitors’) larger packaged components.
Zetex also offers their "higher performance transistor die" in
smaller packages, such as SOT-23 and SOT223. They also claimed
(in June 1999) that a "3rd generation Bipolar transistor" has
better silicon utilization than "Typical 5th generation MOSFET"
http://www.zetex.com/5.0/5-8-3.asp?cat=White+Papers&articleid=4
Spehro Pefhany
<Winfiel...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>Stefan Heinzmann wrote...
>>
>> Frank Bemelman wrote:
>> [...]
>>> And SS8050 too.
>>> http://www.fairchildsemi.com/pf/SS/SS8050.html
>>
>> 2W power dissipation in a TO-92! Brave!
>
> Strange, the Absolute Maximum Ratings table clearly says 1W.
> And assuming Tc = 25C, which of course is nearly impossible.
The Abs. max table says 1W at 25°C ambient, no? But with a typical
claimed TO-92 200°C/W Rthetaja ** (they don't give it in that data
sheet- see below) that would be a Tj of 225°C, which is pretty high
(and well above the 150°C abs. max. value).
> The 2W proclaimed headline must be in error.
Nah, it's on a couple of other data sheets from other manufacturers,
stated in just the same way, with the audio amplifier references. I
think the correct term is "marketing lie".
> Zetex' Super-E-line TO-92 series is rated 1W, and some are
> rated at 1.2W, e.g., the ZTX851 npn, capable of 20A peak!
> Very nice, with a saturation voltage at 5A of 200mV (typ)
> with a beta of 25. Their ZTX951 is a 15A pnp complement,
> with saturation voltage of 220mV at 4A, beta of 10.
>
> The Zetex 1W and 1.2W ratings are for Tamb = 25C, which
> is more useful indeed. They also list a Ptotp = 1.58W.
> Ptotp is "Practical Power Dissipation," defined as
> "The power which can be dissipated assuming the device
> is mounted in a typical manner on a P.C.B. with copper
> equal to 1 inch square minimum." Now that's brave!
I'm working with a tiny 4mm square (0.8mm thin) SMT part (a TO-92 is
4.6mm x 3.6mm) that, when properly mounted, is claimed to have a theta
J-a of only 40°C/W. The rated operating junction temperature is 125°C,
so at a 60°C ambient it should be able to dissipate 1.63W !! (or 2.5W
at an unrealistic 25°C).
> Thanks,
> - Win
>
> (email: use hill_at_rowland-dot-org for now)
** "200K/W valid provided that leads are kept at ambient temperature
at a distance of 2mm from case" (from a Chinese-made 8050 data sheet-
which lists the maximum power dissipation at Ta = 25°C (with the same
2mm/25°C disclaimer) as only 625mW, implying a junction temperature of
150°C. Of course the leads won't likely be 25°C 2mm from the case
either.. so the Chinese are still exaggerating, just not as much as
Fairchild.
Stefan Heinzmann
> Winfield Hill wrote...
>
>>Zetex' Super-E-line TO-92 series is rated 1W, and some are
>>rated at 1.2W, e.g., the ZTX851 npn [and] ZTX951 pnp...
>>
>>The Zetex 1W and 1.2W ratings are for Tamb = 25C, which
>>is more useful indeed. They also list a Ptotp = 1.58W.
>>Ptotp is "Practical Power Dissipation," defined as
>>"The power which can be dissipated assuming the device
>>is mounted in a typical manner on a P.C.B. with copper
>>equal to 1 inch square minimum." Now that's brave!
>
>
> From Zetex website FAQ,
>
> Q. "Is an ELINE package a TO92?"
>
> A. Not quite! Dimensionally, the E-Line is not as thick as
> the TO92, though the lead length and lead spacing are identical.
> It can be termed as TO92 compatible.
>
> The E-Line uses a silicone encapsulant that is rated to a
> much higher temperature than the common epoxies used for TO92
> manufacture. This feature allows higher temperature operation,
> higher power rating and much higher reliability. The E-Line
> package is used primarily for higher performance transistor
> die that, with the package advantages, usually allow the E-Line
> option to replace (competitors?) larger packaged components.
Strange, I always thought that it is the temperature of the silicon die
that forms the limit. Now I learn that it is the epoxy used for the
package. ;-)
--
Cheers
Stefan
Spehro Pefhany
<stefan_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Strange, I always thought that it is the temperature of the silicon die
>that forms the limit. Now I learn that it is the epoxy used for the
>package. ;-)
Metal transistors are often rated at 200°C Tj, but plastic ones
usually at 150°C...
Frank Bemelman
You would be a good salesmen for Zetex ;)
Spehro Pefhany
<Winfiel...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>Frank Bemelman wrote...
>>
>> "Guenter" <gwe...@init-ka.de> schreef ...
>>>
>>> I need to replace a transistor which I do not know what
>>> exactly it is. It is labeled with
>>> _______
>>> | |
>>> | K 7F |
>>> |C 8050 |
>>> | |
>>> |___C___|
>>> | | |
>>> | | |
>>> Anyone here who can give me a hint?
>>
>> It is probably a 2SC8050.
>
> Are you sure there is such a part?
I'm not, at least as far as EIAJ is concerned. There are a bunch of
references to such a part number on the net, but they are not
altogether convincing...
Spehro Pefhany
Yeah, I have 3 or 4 different data sheets, none of which has the 2S
prefix, and with quite different characteristics claimed.
Rich Grise
"Spehro Pefhany" <spef...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote in message
> On 4 Jun 2004 05:10:25 -0700, the renowned Winfield Hill
> <Winfiel...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
> >Stefan Heinzmann wrote...
> >>
> >> Frank Bemelman wrote:
> >> [...]
> >>> And SS8050 too.
> >>> http://www.fairchildsemi.com/pf/SS/SS8050.html
> >>
> >> 2W power dissipation in a TO-92! Brave!
> >
> > Strange, the Absolute Maximum Ratings table clearly says 1W.
> > And assuming Tc = 25C, which of course is nearly impossible.
>
> The Abs. max table says 1W at 25°C ambient, no? But with a typical
> claimed TO-92 200°C/W Rthetaja ** (they don't give it in that data
> sheet- see below) that would be a Tj of 225°C, which is pretty high
> (and well above the 150°C abs. max. value).
I went to look that up and stumbled on a graph of what I can
only think to call transconductance - Ic vs. Vbe. I'll post one
under this subject on a.b.s.e.
That's applicable to another idea where someone wanted to regulate
collector current based on base voltage, without the appropriate
emitter resistor. This animal (and probably transistors in general)
seems to have exponential voltage gain! No wonder they make good
log amps. Well, wait a minute - that'd be the other way around,
wouldn't it?
Cheers!
Rich
Tony Williams
Winfield Hill <Winfiel...@newsguy.com> wrote:
> The Zetex 1W and 1.2W ratings are for Tamb = 25C, which
> is more useful indeed. They also list a Ptotp = 1.58W.
> Ptotp is "Practical Power Dissipation," defined as
> "The power which can be dissipated assuming the device
> is mounted in a typical manner on a P.C.B. with copper
> equal to 1 inch square minimum." Now that's brave!
Vague memories that the collector lead is the
one that benefits most from pcb copper area.
--
Tony Williams.
Winfield Hill
>
> Winfield Hill wrote:
>
>> The Zetex 1W and 1.2W ratings are for Tamb = 25C, which
>> is more useful indeed. They also list a Ptotp = 1.58W.
>> Ptotp is "Practical Power Dissipation," defined as
>> "The power which can be dissipated assuming the device
>> is mounted in a typical manner on a P.C.B. with copper
>> equal to 1 inch square minimum." Now that's brave!
>
> Vague memories that the collector lead is the
> one that benefits most from pcb copper area.
So we are to take "typical manner" to mean 1 square-inch
of copper connected to and around the collector lead...?
Winfield Hill
>
> I went to look that up and stumbled on a graph of what I can
> only think to call transconductance - Ic vs. Vbe. I'll post one
> under this subject on a.b.s.e.
>
> That's applicable to another idea where someone wanted to regulate
> collector current based on base voltage, without the appropriate
> emitter resistor. This animal (and probably transistors in general)
> seems to have exponential voltage gain! No wonder they make good
> log amps. Well, wait a minute - that'd be the other way around,
> wouldn't it?
Hi Rich.
Welcome to the way all BJT transistors work (see AoE page 80).
Commit these formulas to memory:
Ic = Is e^Vbe/VT (hence the ss8050 exponential graph), rewrite as
Vbe = VT ln (Ic/Is) (this is the current log-amp principle),
where VT = kT/q = 25mV at 20C in both formulas.
But be cautious about careless use of these formulas, because
Is and kT/q both change with temperature, in such a way that
the Vbe tempco is -2.2mV/degC If you omit an emitter resistor
when biasing a transistor with a fixed base voltage, the current
would change by about 35% for a 10-degree junction-temp change.
Tony Williams
Winfield Hill <Winfiel...@newsguy.com> wrote:
> So we are to take "typical manner" to mean 1 square-inch
> of copper connected to and around the collector lead...?
Yes. An old manual I have has a slightly different
wording to the one you quoted. "..... a practical
power dissipation of up to 1.5W when the collector
lead is soldered to an equivalent of 1 square inch
of copper".
This is probably because the collector lead is
really a direct extension of the copper lead-frame
in which the chip sits and is about 4x to 5x the
cu volume of the base and emitter flags combined.
--
Tony Williams.
Spehro Pefhany
<Winfiel...@newsguy.com> wrote:
4-oz copper, no doubt. The SMT packages I mentioned need 'thermal'
vias to inner planes to get full performance. Funny thing is that I
can't find anywhere in the documentation what the DAP is connected to
internally.
Tim Shoppa
> On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 15:31:09 +0200, the renowned Stefan Heinzmann
> <stefan_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >Strange, I always thought that it is the temperature of the silicon die
> >that forms the limit. Now I learn that it is the epoxy used for the
> >package. ;-)
>
> Metal transistors are often rated at 200°C Tj, but plastic ones
> usually at 150°C...
All I ever see in new product announcements are plastic cases...
and the "big name" transistor manufacturers have discontinued
metal cases for even their most common (2N2222) parts. (I was
truly shocked when I found out that metal-cased 2N2222's weren't
available from Fairchild, Motorola/OnSemi, etc.)
Admittedly in the commercial world it's the jellybean parts where
the price of a metal case will drive its elminiation, but the mil-spec/
NASA-spec/FRA-spec world still needs the jellybeans in metal cases.
About the only parts I see in metal cases anymore are optoelectronics.
Tim.
Spehro Pefhany
(Tim Shoppa) wrote:
Most of the newer parts are in plastic only now. I think crystals, SAW
filters, reeds, and some MEMS parts are still left..