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B&K Precision bench multimeters, good?
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Joerg
Dec 7, 2012, 3:14:31 PM12/7/12
to
Gents,
In the market for a new bench meter, 4-1/2 digits is sufficient. To my
surprise I saw on their web site that B&K is an American company which,
of course, I'd gladly support. Is it true for their meters and stuff
that they are at least engineered here? Are they good? Looking at the 2831E:
http://www.bkprecision.com/products/multimeters/2831E-4-1-2-digit-true-rms-bench-digital-multimeter.html
I really like VF displays, much more so than LCD.
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/
In the market for a new bench meter, 4-1/2 digits is sufficient. To my
surprise I saw on their web site that B&K is an American company which,
of course, I'd gladly support. Is it true for their meters and stuff
that they are at least engineered here? Are they good? Looking at the 2831E:
http://www.bkprecision.com/products/multimeters/2831E-4-1-2-digit-true-rms-bench-digital-multimeter.html
I really like VF displays, much more so than LCD.
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/
George Herold
Dec 7, 2012, 3:28:53 PM12/7/12
to
On Dec 7, 3:14 pm, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Gents,
>
> In the market for a new bench meter, 4-1/2 digits is sufficient. To my
> surprise I saw on their web site that B&K is an American company which,
> of course, I'd gladly support. Is it true for their meters and stuff
> that they are at least engineered here? Are they good? Looking at the 2831E:
>
> http://www.bkprecision.com/products/multimeters/2831E-4-1-2-digit-tru...
> Gents,
>
> In the market for a new bench meter, 4-1/2 digits is sufficient. To my
> surprise I saw on their web site that B&K is an American company which,
> of course, I'd gladly support. Is it true for their meters and stuff
> that they are at least engineered here? Are they good? Looking at the 2831E:
>
>
> I really like VF displays, much more so than LCD.
>
> --
> Regards, Joerg
>
> http://www.analogconsultants.com/
I've got a hand held B&K DMM. I like it, pretty much the same
> I really like VF displays, much more so than LCD.
>
> --
> Regards, Joerg
>
> http://www.analogconsultants.com/
readings as a more expensive fluke, whenever I've checked. I've also
got a bench voltmeter from Keithley (2100), 6/12 digits, not much more
than the B&K.
George H.
Phil Hobbs
Dec 7, 2012, 3:29:55 PM12/7/12
to
On 12/07/2012 03:14 PM, Joerg wrote:
> Gents,
>
> In the market for a new bench meter, 4-1/2 digits is sufficient. To my
> surprise I saw on their web site that B&K is an American company which,
> of course, I'd gladly support. Is it true for their meters and stuff
> that they are at least engineered here? Are they good? Looking at the 2831E:
>
> http://www.bkprecision.com/products/multimeters/2831E-4-1-2-digit-true-rms-bench-digital-multimeter.html
>
> I really like VF displays, much more so than LCD.
>
There's a 5-1/2 digit Keithley 191 on eBay for $69 BIN. I have a
> Gents,
>
> In the market for a new bench meter, 4-1/2 digits is sufficient. To my
> surprise I saw on their web site that B&K is an American company which,
> of course, I'd gladly support. Is it true for their meters and stuff
> that they are at least engineered here? Are they good? Looking at the 2831E:
>
> http://www.bkprecision.com/products/multimeters/2831E-4-1-2-digit-true-rms-bench-digital-multimeter.html
>
> I really like VF displays, much more so than LCD.
>
couple, which I like very well. Only one has the AC board, and neither
is true-RMS of course.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net
lang...@fonz.dk
Dec 7, 2012, 3:39:13 PM12/7/12
to
On Dec 7, 9:14 pm, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Gents,
>
> In the market for a new bench meter, 4-1/2 digits is sufficient. To my
> surprise I saw on their web site that B&K is an American company which,
> of course, I'd gladly support. Is it true for their meters and stuff
> that they are at least engineered here? Are they good? Looking at the 2831E:
>
> http://www.bkprecision.com/products/multimeters/2831E-4-1-2-digit-tru...
> Gents,
>
> In the market for a new bench meter, 4-1/2 digits is sufficient. To my
> surprise I saw on their web site that B&K is an American company which,
> of course, I'd gladly support. Is it true for their meters and stuff
> that they are at least engineered here? Are they good? Looking at the 2831E:
>
>
> I really like VF displays, much more so than LCD.
>
when I saw B&K I thought Brüel & Kjær , but I guess it is not the same
> I really like VF displays, much more so than LCD.
>
company
-Lasse
Joerg
Dec 7, 2012, 3:54:17 PM12/7/12
to
refurb.
http://www.testequipmentconnection.com/29842/Keithley_2100.php
Joerg
Dec 7, 2012, 3:56:39 PM12/7/12
to
Phil Hobbs wrote:
> On 12/07/2012 03:14 PM, Joerg wrote:
>> Gents,
>>
>> In the market for a new bench meter, 4-1/2 digits is sufficient. To my
>> surprise I saw on their web site that B&K is an American company which,
>> of course, I'd gladly support. Is it true for their meters and stuff
>> that they are at least engineered here? Are they good? Looking at the
>> 2831E:
>>
>> http://www.bkprecision.com/products/multimeters/2831E-4-1-2-digit-true-rms-bench-digital-multimeter.html
>>
>>
>> I really like VF displays, much more so than LCD.
>>
> There's a 5-1/2 digit Keithley 191 on eBay for $69 BIN. I have a
> couple, which I like very well. Only one has the AC board, and neither
> is true-RMS of course.
>
Yeah, I don't have a personal EBay account. And I really like the fact
> On 12/07/2012 03:14 PM, Joerg wrote:
>> Gents,
>>
>> In the market for a new bench meter, 4-1/2 digits is sufficient. To my
>> surprise I saw on their web site that B&K is an American company which,
>> of course, I'd gladly support. Is it true for their meters and stuff
>> that they are at least engineered here? Are they good? Looking at the
>> 2831E:
>>
>> http://www.bkprecision.com/products/multimeters/2831E-4-1-2-digit-true-rms-bench-digital-multimeter.html
>>
>>
>> I really like VF displays, much more so than LCD.
>>
> There's a 5-1/2 digit Keithley 191 on eBay for $69 BIN. I have a
> couple, which I like very well. Only one has the AC board, and neither
> is true-RMS of course.
>
that the B&K has USB connectivity. I tend to use that a lot because then
I can watch a trend from across the room, BIG numbers on the screen.
Joerg
Dec 7, 2012, 3:59:36 PM12/7/12
to
branched out worldwide). The founder might have European roots, but more
in Germany than in Denmark.
P E Schoen
Dec 7, 2012, 4:08:23 PM12/7/12
to
"Joerg" wrote in message news:aif11i...@mid.individual.net...
> In the market for a new bench meter, 4-1/2 digits is sufficient. To my
> surprise I saw on their web site that B&K is an American company
> which, of course, I'd gladly support. Is it true for their meters and
> stuff
> that they are at least engineered here? Are they good? Looking at the
> 2831E:
> http://www.bkprecision.com/products/multimeters/2831E-4-1-2-digit-true-rms-bench-digital-multimeter.html
> I really like VF displays, much more so than LCD.
I like my Fluke 45, which has given me good service for over 20 years. Its
true RMS accuracy is better than the B&K, and some are available on eBay for
$250-$300:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=fluke+45
The B&K is about 0.4% accuracy on true RMS:
http://www.bkprecision.com/downloads/datasheets/2831Eand5491B_datasheet.pdf
The Fluke 45 is about 0.2%:
http://www.fluke.com/fluke/usen/digital-multimeters/Fluke-45.htm?PID=56082
Paul
> In the market for a new bench meter, 4-1/2 digits is sufficient. To my
> surprise I saw on their web site that B&K is an American company
> which, of course, I'd gladly support. Is it true for their meters and
> stuff
> that they are at least engineered here? Are they good? Looking at the
> 2831E:
> http://www.bkprecision.com/products/multimeters/2831E-4-1-2-digit-true-rms-bench-digital-multimeter.html
> I really like VF displays, much more so than LCD.
true RMS accuracy is better than the B&K, and some are available on eBay for
$250-$300:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=fluke+45
The B&K is about 0.4% accuracy on true RMS:
http://www.bkprecision.com/downloads/datasheets/2831Eand5491B_datasheet.pdf
The Fluke 45 is about 0.2%:
http://www.fluke.com/fluke/usen/digital-multimeters/Fluke-45.htm?PID=56082
Paul
Spehro Pefhany
Dec 7, 2012, 4:35:15 PM12/7/12
to
On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 12:59:36 -0800, Joerg <inv...@invalid.invalid>
wrote:
B&K and Bruel and Kjaer are NOTHING like each other. If their meters
are like their power supplies that I've seen they're just rebranded
Chinese (probably Taiwan invested Chinese) product.
wrote:
are like their power supplies that I've seen they're just rebranded
Chinese (probably Taiwan invested Chinese) product.
Joerg
Dec 7, 2012, 5:35:23 PM12/7/12
to
Klaus Bahner
Dec 7, 2012, 5:49:53 PM12/7/12
to
On 07-12-2012 21:14, Joerg wrote:
>
> http://www.bkprecision.com/products/multimeters/2831E-4-1-2-digit-true-rms-bench-digital-multimeter.html
>
> I really like VF displays, much more so than LCD.
>
Don't know the B&K, but if your budget is flexible I can recommend the
>
> http://www.bkprecision.com/products/multimeters/2831E-4-1-2-digit-true-rms-bench-digital-multimeter.html
>
> I really like VF displays, much more so than LCD.
>
Fluke 8845A/8846A. Excellent and extremely useful bench meter.
Only minuses are that it likes to stay connected to the mains even if
switched off, perhaps to keep the reference heated. If completely
disconnected it takes a long (say 30 sec) initializing phase before it
can be used. Found it also annoying that the maximum logging length is
limited to 50.000 measurements even if you store on an USB stick (8846A).
Regards,
Klaus
Spehro Pefhany
Dec 7, 2012, 5:54:24 PM12/7/12
to
impressive). Personally, I'd go for the Agilent 34401, but I know this
is a fraction of the price.
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
sp...@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
John Larkin
Dec 7, 2012, 6:00:20 PM12/7/12
to
On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 12:54:17 -0800, Joerg <inv...@invalid.invalid>
wrote:
The 2100 is a generic Chinese rebrand. You see it all over the place.
I had three and sent them all back. I annoyed Keithley so much that
they gave me 2000's instead.
http://www.testitnow.co.uk/shop/detail/37-array/flypage/692-array-m3500a-6-12-digit-high-performance-dmm?sef=hcfp
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
Precision electronic instrumentation
Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators
Custom laser drivers and controllers
Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links
VME thermocouple, LVDT, synchro acquisition and simulation
wrote:
I had three and sent them all back. I annoyed Keithley so much that
they gave me 2000's instead.
http://www.testitnow.co.uk/shop/detail/37-array/flypage/692-array-m3500a-6-12-digit-high-performance-dmm?sef=hcfp
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
Precision electronic instrumentation
Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators
Custom laser drivers and controllers
Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links
VME thermocouple, LVDT, synchro acquisition and simulation
John Larkin
Dec 7, 2012, 6:23:50 PM12/7/12
to
On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 14:35:23 -0800, Joerg <inv...@invalid.invalid>
wrote:
Their 844USB device programmer is great. It's made by Elnec in
Slovakia.
wrote:
Slovakia.
Joerg
Dec 7, 2012, 6:25:49 PM12/7/12
to
P E Schoen
Dec 7, 2012, 6:32:09 PM12/7/12
to
"Klaus Bahner" wrote in message
news:50c27291$0$283$1472...@news.sunsite.dk...
> Don't know the B&K, but if your budget is flexible I can recommend the
> Fluke 8845A/8846A. Excellent and extremely useful bench meter.
> Only minuses are that it likes to stay connected to the mains even if
> switched off, perhaps to keep the reference heated. If completely
> disconnected it takes a long (say 30 sec) initializing phase before it can
> be used. Found it also annoying that the maximum logging length is limited
> to 50.000 measurements even if you store on an USB stick (8846A).
It does have excellent AC True-RMS accuracy of 0.04% RDG + 0.02% Range, but
it is AC coupled. The Fluke 45 uses a calculated AC+DC measurement which is
sqrt(AC^2+DC^2).
The 8845/6 also has Kelvin resistance measurement which is lacking on the
45. I think that is a very important feature, especially measuring low ohms
or to compensate for lead and clip resistance.
Paul
news:50c27291$0$283$1472...@news.sunsite.dk...
> Don't know the B&K, but if your budget is flexible I can recommend the
> Fluke 8845A/8846A. Excellent and extremely useful bench meter.
> Only minuses are that it likes to stay connected to the mains even if
> switched off, perhaps to keep the reference heated. If completely
> disconnected it takes a long (say 30 sec) initializing phase before it can
> be used. Found it also annoying that the maximum logging length is limited
> to 50.000 measurements even if you store on an USB stick (8846A).
it is AC coupled. The Fluke 45 uses a calculated AC+DC measurement which is
sqrt(AC^2+DC^2).
The 8845/6 also has Kelvin resistance measurement which is lacking on the
45. I think that is a very important feature, especially measuring low ohms
or to compensate for lead and clip resistance.
Paul
Joerg
Dec 7, 2012, 6:39:58 PM12/7/12
to
John Larkin
Dec 7, 2012, 6:50:33 PM12/7/12
to
It does this,
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/53724080/Gear/2401.JPG
and if you grab one of the insulated test leads, it does this:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/53724080/Gear/2401_EMI.JPG
It has a CE sticker, but there's no way it really passed the EMI
tests.
Sent it back too.
Joerg
Dec 7, 2012, 7:01:20 PM12/7/12
to
whether we buy gear from US manufacturers?
George Herold
Dec 7, 2012, 7:23:22 PM12/7/12
to
On Dec 7, 6:00 pm, John Larkin <jlar...@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 12:54:17 -0800, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hmm interesting, thanks.
I've used my 2100 for ~0.1% (four figure) measurements. (Mostly as an
AC and DC voltmeter) Beyond that I don't have anything to compare it
to. What was your problem?
George H.
> On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 12:54:17 -0800, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >George Herold wrote:
> >> On Dec 7, 3:14 pm, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> >>> Gents,
>
> >>> In the market for a new bench meter, 4-1/2 digits is sufficient. To my
> >>> surprise I saw on their web site that B&K is an American company which,
> >>> of course, I'd gladly support. Is it true for their meters and stuff
> >>> that they are at least engineered here? Are they good? Looking at the 2831E:
>
> >>>http://www.bkprecision.com/products/multimeters/2831E-4-1-2-digit-tru...
>
> >>> I really like VF displays, much more so than LCD.
>
> >>> --
> >>> Regards, Joerg
>
> >>>http://www.analogconsultants.com/
>
> >> I've got a hand held B&K DMM. I like it, pretty much the same
> >> readings as a more expensive fluke, whenever I've checked. I've also
> >> got a bench voltmeter from Keithley (2100), 6/12 digits, not much more
> >> than the B&K.
>
> >Thanks, good to know. The Keithley is more than 2x the price even as a
> >refurb.
>
> >http://www.testequipmentconnection.com/29842/Keithley_2100.php
>
> The 2100 is a generic Chinese rebrand. You see it all over the place.
> I had three and sent them all back. I annoyed Keithley so much that
> they gave me 2000's instead.
>
> http://www.testitnow.co.uk/shop/detail/37-array/flypage/692-array-m35...
>
>
>
>
>
> >George Herold wrote:
> >> On Dec 7, 3:14 pm, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> >>> Gents,
>
> >>> In the market for a new bench meter, 4-1/2 digits is sufficient. To my
> >>> surprise I saw on their web site that B&K is an American company which,
> >>> of course, I'd gladly support. Is it true for their meters and stuff
> >>> that they are at least engineered here? Are they good? Looking at the 2831E:
>
> >>>http://www.bkprecision.com/products/multimeters/2831E-4-1-2-digit-tru...
>
> >>> I really like VF displays, much more so than LCD.
>
> >>> --
> >>> Regards, Joerg
>
> >>>http://www.analogconsultants.com/
>
> >> I've got a hand held B&K DMM. I like it, pretty much the same
> >> readings as a more expensive fluke, whenever I've checked. I've also
> >> got a bench voltmeter from Keithley (2100), 6/12 digits, not much more
> >> than the B&K.
>
> >Thanks, good to know. The Keithley is more than 2x the price even as a
> >refurb.
>
> >http://www.testequipmentconnection.com/29842/Keithley_2100.php
>
> The 2100 is a generic Chinese rebrand. You see it all over the place.
> I had three and sent them all back. I annoyed Keithley so much that
> they gave me 2000's instead.
>
>
> --
>
> John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
>
> jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot comhttp://www.highlandtechnology.com
> --
>
> John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
>
>
> Precision electronic instrumentation
> Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators
> Custom laser drivers and controllers
> Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links
> VME thermocouple, LVDT, synchro acquisition and simulation- Hide quoted text -
> Precision electronic instrumentation
> Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators
> Custom laser drivers and controllers
> Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hmm interesting, thanks.
I've used my 2100 for ~0.1% (four figure) measurements. (Mostly as an
AC and DC voltmeter) Beyond that I don't have anything to compare it
to. What was your problem?
George H.
George Herold
Dec 7, 2012, 7:33:50 PM12/7/12
to
On Dec 7, 6:50 pm, John Larkin <jlar...@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 15:00:20 -0800, John Larkin
>
>
>
>
>
> <jlar...@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 15:00:20 -0800, John Larkin
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 12:54:17 -0800, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid>
> >wrote:
>
> >>George Herold wrote:
> >>> On Dec 7, 3:14 pm, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> >>>> Gents,
>
> >>>> In the market for a new bench meter, 4-1/2 digits is sufficient. To my
> >>>> surprise I saw on their web site that B&K is an American company which,
> >>>> of course, I'd gladly support. Is it true for their meters and stuff
> >>>> that they are at least engineered here? Are they good? Looking at the 2831E:
>
> >>>>http://www.bkprecision.com/products/multimeters/2831E-4-1-2-digit-tru...
>
> >>>> I really like VF displays, much more so than LCD.
>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Regards, Joerg
>
> >>>>http://www.analogconsultants.com/
>
> >>> I've got a hand held B&K DMM. I like it, pretty much the same
> >>> readings as a more expensive fluke, whenever I've checked. I've also
> >>> got a bench voltmeter from Keithley (2100), 6/12 digits, not much more
> >>> than the B&K.
>
> >>Thanks, good to know. The Keithley is more than 2x the price even as a
> >>refurb.
>
> >>http://www.testequipmentconnection.com/29842/Keithley_2100.php
>
> >The 2100 is a generic Chinese rebrand. You see it all over the place.
> >I had three and sent them all back. I annoyed Keithley so much that
> >they gave me 2000's instead.
>
> >http://www.testitnow.co.uk/shop/detail/37-array/flypage/692-array-m35...
>
> >>George Herold wrote:
> >>> On Dec 7, 3:14 pm, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> >>>> Gents,
>
> >>>> In the market for a new bench meter, 4-1/2 digits is sufficient. To my
> >>>> surprise I saw on their web site that B&K is an American company which,
> >>>> of course, I'd gladly support. Is it true for their meters and stuff
> >>>> that they are at least engineered here? Are they good? Looking at the 2831E:
>
> >>>>http://www.bkprecision.com/products/multimeters/2831E-4-1-2-digit-tru...
>
> >>>> I really like VF displays, much more so than LCD.
>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Regards, Joerg
>
> >>>>http://www.analogconsultants.com/
>
> >>> I've got a hand held B&K DMM. I like it, pretty much the same
> >>> readings as a more expensive fluke, whenever I've checked. I've also
> >>> got a bench voltmeter from Keithley (2100), 6/12 digits, not much more
> >>> than the B&K.
>
> >>Thanks, good to know. The Keithley is more than 2x the price even as a
> >>refurb.
>
> >>http://www.testequipmentconnection.com/29842/Keithley_2100.php
>
> >The 2100 is a generic Chinese rebrand. You see it all over the place.
> >I had three and sent them all back. I annoyed Keithley so much that
> >they gave me 2000's instead.
>
>
> Oh, I also bought a Keithley 2401 source/measurement unit.
>
> It does this,
>
> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/53724080/Gear/2401.JPG
>
> and if you grab one of the insulated test leads, it does this:
>
> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/53724080/Gear/2401_EMI.JPG
>
> It has a CE sticker, but there's no way it really passed the EMI
> tests.
>
> Sent it back too.
>
> --
>
> John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
>
> jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot comhttp://www.highlandtechnology.com
> Oh, I also bought a Keithley 2401 source/measurement unit.
>
> It does this,
>
> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/53724080/Gear/2401.JPG
>
> and if you grab one of the insulated test leads, it does this:
>
> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/53724080/Gear/2401_EMI.JPG
>
> It has a CE sticker, but there's no way it really passed the EMI
> tests.
>
> Sent it back too.
>
> --
>
> John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
>
>
> Precision electronic instrumentation
> Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators
> Custom laser drivers and controllers
> Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links
> Precision electronic instrumentation
> Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators
> Custom laser drivers and controllers
> Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links
> VME thermocouple, LVDT, synchro acquisition and simulation- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Woah... what's up with that? Does the fluke return to normal if you
>
> - Show quoted text -
unplug the Keithley?
George H.
John Larkin
Dec 7, 2012, 7:35:15 PM12/7/12
to
so the display was a blur. It took a lot of menu flogging to get the
rate down to human levels, and that setup couldn't be saved. And one
of the three units crashed, just displayed some goofy diagnostic
message.
My Fluke 8845A is great.
John Larkin
Dec 7, 2012, 7:38:56 PM12/7/12
to
volts. Both the Fluke and the Keithley agree that it's way off when
there's a little RF around.
George Herold
Dec 7, 2012, 7:54:49 PM12/7/12
to
I've got other test gear that doesn't remember what I was doing last,
that seems a common failing.
Any issues with the accuracy?
George H.
And one
> of the three units crashed, just displayed some goofy diagnostic
> message.
>
> My Fluke 8845A is great.
>
> --
>
> John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
>
George Herold
Dec 7, 2012, 8:05:23 PM12/7/12
to
measurement.
Is there some dynamic that can go wrong when a company gets too big,
or too old?
George H.
Joerg
Dec 7, 2012, 8:09:40 PM12/7/12
to
too complacent. When I bought my last scope and had to shun Tektronix
for the first time I could not believe it. They honestly thought that in
this day and age they could get away with 4k of sample memory and still
charge 50% more than the Asians (who had 25k standard). That's like
seeing a new car in a showroom with naugahide seats.
John Larkin
Dec 7, 2012, 8:19:53 PM12/7/12
to
On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 17:09:40 -0800, Joerg <inv...@invalid.invalid>
I'm getting disappointed with Tek too. We just bought a $50K LeCroy
scope.
scope.
Spehro Pefhany
Dec 7, 2012, 7:58:30 PM12/7/12
to
On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 17:54:24 -0500, the renowned Spehro Pefhany
<spef...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
>
>Pretty standard for decent Chinese stuff (usuable but not overly
>impressive). Personally, I'd go for the Agilent 34401, but I know this
>is a fraction of the price.
>
Sorry, I meant the 34410A (the 34401A is the predecessor). It's LXI
<spef...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
>
>Pretty standard for decent Chinese stuff (usuable but not overly
>impressive). Personally, I'd go for the Agilent 34401, but I know this
>is a fraction of the price.
>
Class C compliant as well as having USB.
http://www.teknetelectronics.com/Search.asp?p_ID=20596&pDo=DETAIL
Not too bad for such a nice instrument.
George Herold
Dec 7, 2012, 8:36:39 PM12/7/12
to
>
> - Show quoted text -
Of course you know that tek and keithley are now the same
> - Show quoted text -
company... :^(
George H.
Joerg
Dec 7, 2012, 8:38:41 PM12/7/12
to
Spehro Pefhany wrote:
> On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 17:54:24 -0500, the renowned Spehro Pefhany
> <spef...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
>
>> Pretty standard for decent Chinese stuff (usuable but not overly
>> impressive). Personally, I'd go for the Agilent 34401, but I know this
>> is a fraction of the price.
>>
>
> Sorry, I meant the 34410A (the 34401A is the predecessor). It's LXI
> Class C compliant as well as having USB.
>
> http://www.teknetelectronics.com/Search.asp?p_ID=20596&pDo=DETAIL
>
> Not too bad for such a nice instrument.
>
Hmm, and it's on sale for under $1k. Tempting, tempting ...
> On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 17:54:24 -0500, the renowned Spehro Pefhany
> <spef...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
>
>> Pretty standard for decent Chinese stuff (usuable but not overly
>> impressive). Personally, I'd go for the Agilent 34401, but I know this
>> is a fraction of the price.
>>
>
> Sorry, I meant the 34410A (the 34401A is the predecessor). It's LXI
> Class C compliant as well as having USB.
>
> http://www.teknetelectronics.com/Search.asp?p_ID=20596&pDo=DETAIL
>
> Not too bad for such a nice instrument.
>
Michael A. Terrell
Dec 7, 2012, 9:54:32 PM12/7/12
to
Joerg wrote:
>
> Gents,
>
> In the market for a new bench meter, 4-1/2 digits is sufficient. To my
> surprise I saw on their web site that B&K is an American company which,
> of course, I'd gladly support. Is it true for their meters and stuff
> that they are at least engineered here? Are they good? Looking at the 2831E:
>
That line started out making test equipment for radio repair, and
later, for TV shops. Things like their E200 signal generator. It was
about the same class as Heathkit, without the fun of putting it
together.
John Larkin
Dec 7, 2012, 10:22:21 PM12/7/12
to
On Fri, 7 Dec 2012 17:36:39 -0800 (PST), George Herold <ghe...@teachspin.com>
wrote:
Fluke, too.
--
John Larkin Highland Technology Inc
www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com
Precision electronic instrumentation
Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators
Custom timing and laser controllers
Multichannel arbitrary waveform generators
wrote:
--
John Larkin Highland Technology Inc
www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com
Precision electronic instrumentation
Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators
Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links
VME analog, thermocouple, LVDT, synchro, tachometer
Multichannel arbitrary waveform generators
Nico Coesel
Dec 8, 2012, 6:32:57 AM12/8/12
to
Joerg <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>Gents,
>
>In the market for a new bench meter, 4-1/2 digits is sufficient. To my
>surprise I saw on their web site that B&K is an American company which,
B&K is selling mostly rebranded Asian equipment nowadays.
>Gents,
>
>In the market for a new bench meter, 4-1/2 digits is sufficient. To my
>surprise I saw on their web site that B&K is an American company which,
--
Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
indicates you are not using the right tools...
nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
--------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Sloman
Dec 8, 2012, 6:57:00 AM12/8/12
to
On 8 Dec, 07:14, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Gents,
>
> In the market for a new bench meter, 4-1/2 digits is sufficient. To my
> surprise I saw on their web site that B&K is an American company which,
> Gents,
>
> In the market for a new bench meter, 4-1/2 digits is sufficient. To my
> surprise I saw on their web site that B&K is an American company which,
> of course, I'd gladly support. Is it true for their meters and stuff
> that they are at least engineered here? Are they good? Looking at the 2831E:
>
> http://www.bkprecision.com/products/multimeters/2831E-4-1-2-digit-tru...
>
> I really like VF displays, much more so than LCD.
>
> --
> Regards, Joerg
>
> http://www.analogconsultants.com/
I've had good results from the Thurlby-Thandar Instruments 1906 5-1/2
> that they are at least engineered here? Are they good? Looking at the 2831E:
>
> http://www.bkprecision.com/products/multimeters/2831E-4-1-2-digit-tru...
>
> I really like VF displays, much more so than LCD.
>
> --
> Regards, Joerg
>
> http://www.analogconsultants.com/
digit multimeter. It's ten years since I've bought one, but Farnell
Australia still seems to offer it - though they've not got any in
stock - for $A1,378.27, which might be $US 1450. It does do true RMS
and Kelvin four terminal resistance measurements.
Clive Sinclair was involved in the start-up of Thurlby-Thandar, but
the guys involved were smart enough to stop him from wrecking the
quality of what they shipped.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Mr Stonebeach
Dec 8, 2012, 6:58:12 AM12/8/12
to
On Dec 7, 10:39 pm, "langw...@fonz.dk" <langw...@fonz.dk> wrote:
> when I saw B&K I thought Brüel & Kjær , but I guess it is not the same
> company
This is an eye-opener. I have seen them around and took for granted
> when I saw B&K I thought Brüel & Kjær , but I guess it is not the same
> company
that
they are Bruel&Kjaer. Only now I realize that the B&K rather stands
for
Philip Ban & Carl Korn.
Regards,
Mikko
Nico Coesel
Dec 8, 2012, 7:05:25 AM12/8/12
to
Joerg <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>Gents,
>
>In the market for a new bench meter, 4-1/2 digits is sufficient. To my
>surprise I saw on their web site that B&K is an American company which,
>of course, I'd gladly support. Is it true for their meters and stuff
>that they are at least engineered here? Are they good? Looking at the 2831E:
>
>http://www.bkprecision.com/products/multimeters/2831E-4-1-2-digit-true-rms-bench-digital-multimeter.html
>Gents,
>
>In the market for a new bench meter, 4-1/2 digits is sufficient. To my
>surprise I saw on their web site that B&K is an American company which,
>of course, I'd gladly support. Is it true for their meters and stuff
>that they are at least engineered here? Are they good? Looking at the 2831E:
>
>
>I really like VF displays, much more so than LCD.
I have this one which seems to be just as accurate as the B&K:
>I really like VF displays, much more so than LCD.
http://www.storeinfinity.com/vichy-vc8145-dmm-digital-bench-top-multimeter-meter-pc.html
I bought it because it is one of the very few meters with backlight
and 20A current handling capability.
Nico Coesel
Dec 8, 2012, 7:06:53 AM12/8/12
to
Joerg
Dec 8, 2012, 12:15:27 PM12/8/12
to
Nico Coesel wrote:
> Joerg <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Gents,
>>
>> In the market for a new bench meter, 4-1/2 digits is sufficient. To my
>> surprise I saw on their web site that B&K is an American company which,
>> of course, I'd gladly support. Is it true for their meters and stuff
>> that they are at least engineered here? Are they good? Looking at the 2831E:
>>
>> http://www.bkprecision.com/products/multimeters/2831E-4-1-2-digit-true-rms-bench-digital-multimeter.html
>>
>> I really like VF displays, much more so than LCD.
>
> I have this one which seems to be just as accurate as the B&K:
>
> http://www.storeinfinity.com/vichy-vc8145-dmm-digital-bench-top-multimeter-meter-pc.html
>
> I bought it because it is one of the very few meters with backlight
> and 20A current handling capability.
>
Is the display big and easy to read out? I started needing glasses at
> Joerg <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Gents,
>>
>> In the market for a new bench meter, 4-1/2 digits is sufficient. To my
>> surprise I saw on their web site that B&K is an American company which,
>> of course, I'd gladly support. Is it true for their meters and stuff
>> that they are at least engineered here? Are they good? Looking at the 2831E:
>>
>> http://www.bkprecision.com/products/multimeters/2831E-4-1-2-digit-true-rms-bench-digital-multimeter.html
>>
>> I really like VF displays, much more so than LCD.
>
> I have this one which seems to be just as accurate as the B&K:
>
> http://www.storeinfinity.com/vichy-vc8145-dmm-digital-bench-top-multimeter-meter-pc.html
>
> I bought it because it is one of the very few meters with backlight
> and 20A current handling capability.
>
age 40 and then LCD became much less pleasant than VFD, even when
backlit they just don't have the same contrast.
Does the build quality look ok?
John Larkin
Dec 8, 2012, 12:27:15 PM12/8/12
to
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/53724080/Gear/KeithleyFix.jpg
Note how nice the Fluke display is, and how crashed the Chinese Keithley
software is.
--
John Larkin Highland Technology Inc
www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com
Precision electronic instrumentation
Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators
Custom timing and laser controllers
Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators
Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links
John Larkin
Dec 8, 2012, 12:43:01 PM12/8/12
to
not-so-good price point. RAM is dirt cheap nowadays.
We went shopping for a 4-channel 1 GHz scope, and bought the Rigol. It was
better and cheaper than the Agilent or Tek equivalents.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/53724080/Gear/Rigol/Rigol_1GHz.JPG
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/53724080/Gear/Rigol/DS6_20120525021902.png
It comes with a few of these wonderful probe holders:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/53724080/Gear/Rigol/DSC09208.JPG
So, we've spent over $60K on non-Tek scopes in the last year.
--
John Larkin Highland Technology Inc
Precision electronic instrumentation
Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators
Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links
Phil Hobbs
Dec 8, 2012, 1:29:24 PM12/8/12
to
On 12/07/2012 03:56 PM, Joerg wrote:
> Phil Hobbs wrote:
>> couple, which I like very well. Only one has the AC board, and neither
>> is true-RMS of course.
>>
>
> Yeah, I don't have a personal EBay account. And I really like the fact
> that the B&K has USB connectivity. I tend to use that a lot because then
> I can watch a trend from across the room, BIG numbers on the screen.
>
No eBay account? You pay full price for stuff when there's such a
bonanza of good cheap gear available?
Reminds me of an old joke about why God made gentiles--somebody has to
pay retail. ;)
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net
> Phil Hobbs wrote:
>> On 12/07/2012 03:14 PM, Joerg wrote:
>>> Gents,
>>>
>>> In the market for a new bench meter, 4-1/2 digits is sufficient. To my
>>> surprise I saw on their web site that B&K is an American company which,
>>> of course, I'd gladly support. Is it true for their meters and stuff
>>> that they are at least engineered here? Are they good? Looking at the
>>> 2831E:
>>>
>>> http://www.bkprecision.com/products/multimeters/2831E-4-1-2-digit-true-rms-bench-digital-multimeter.html
>>> Gents,
>>>
>>> In the market for a new bench meter, 4-1/2 digits is sufficient. To my
>>> surprise I saw on their web site that B&K is an American company which,
>>> of course, I'd gladly support. Is it true for their meters and stuff
>>> that they are at least engineered here? Are they good? Looking at the
>>> 2831E:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I really like VF displays, much more so than LCD.
>>>
>> There's a 5-1/2 digit Keithley 191 on eBay for $69 BIN. I have a
>>>
>>> I really like VF displays, much more so than LCD.
>>>
>> couple, which I like very well. Only one has the AC board, and neither
>> is true-RMS of course.
>>
>
> Yeah, I don't have a personal EBay account. And I really like the fact
> that the B&K has USB connectivity. I tend to use that a lot because then
> I can watch a trend from across the room, BIG numbers on the screen.
>
No eBay account? You pay full price for stuff when there's such a
bonanza of good cheap gear available?
Reminds me of an old joke about why God made gentiles--somebody has to
pay retail. ;)
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net
notbob
Dec 8, 2012, 1:36:30 PM12/8/12
to
On 2012-12-07, Joerg <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> that they are at least engineered here? Are they good?
I wouldn't buy one.
> that they are at least engineered here? Are they good?
Waaaay back when I first got into hi-tech in SV, I worked for a
company requiring skills in both mech and elect. Us techs were hard
overworked and ALL tools took and unbelievable beating. I soon
noticed all the MMs were pretty much hosed, including the few B&Ks I
found in a junk bin. All the B&Ks electronics still worked, but the
test lead sockets on all of them were trashed beyond repair, and so
useless. This is 30 yrs ago, when B&Ks were considered a quality
instrument. In fact almost all other brands we had lying around,
except Fluke, had trashed test lead sockets, also. This included a
new Simpson DMM. The only useable MMs I found were all Flukes and one
ancient Simpson lunchboxed-sized analog meter. I've stuck with Fluke
ever since.
nb
Joerg
Dec 8, 2012, 3:41:43 PM12/8/12
to
Phil Hobbs wrote:
> On 12/07/2012 03:56 PM, Joerg wrote:
>> Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>> On 12/07/2012 03:14 PM, Joerg wrote:
>>>> Gents,
>>>>
>>>> In the market for a new bench meter, 4-1/2 digits is sufficient. To my
>>>> surprise I saw on their web site that B&K is an American company which,
>>>> of course, I'd gladly support. Is it true for their meters and stuff
>>>> that they are at least engineered here? Are they good? Looking at the
>>>> 2831E:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.bkprecision.com/products/multimeters/2831E-4-1-2-digit-true-rms-bench-digital-multimeter.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I really like VF displays, much more so than LCD.
>>>>
>>> There's a 5-1/2 digit Keithley 191 on eBay for $69 BIN. I have a
>>> couple, which I like very well. Only one has the AC board, and neither
>>> is true-RMS of course.
>>>
>>
>> Yeah, I don't have a personal EBay account. And I really like the fact
>> that the B&K has USB connectivity. I tend to use that a lot because then
>> I can watch a trend from across the room, BIG numbers on the screen.
>>
>
> No eBay account? You pay full price for stuff when there's such a
> bonanza of good cheap gear available?
>
I don't pay full price. For new stuff you can always find a sale
> On 12/07/2012 03:56 PM, Joerg wrote:
>> Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>> On 12/07/2012 03:14 PM, Joerg wrote:
>>>> Gents,
>>>>
>>>> In the market for a new bench meter, 4-1/2 digits is sufficient. To my
>>>> surprise I saw on their web site that B&K is an American company which,
>>>> of course, I'd gladly support. Is it true for their meters and stuff
>>>> that they are at least engineered here? Are they good? Looking at the
>>>> 2831E:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.bkprecision.com/products/multimeters/2831E-4-1-2-digit-true-rms-bench-digital-multimeter.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I really like VF displays, much more so than LCD.
>>>>
>>> There's a 5-1/2 digit Keithley 191 on eBay for $69 BIN. I have a
>>> couple, which I like very well. Only one has the AC board, and neither
>>> is true-RMS of course.
>>>
>>
>> Yeah, I don't have a personal EBay account. And I really like the fact
>> that the B&K has USB connectivity. I tend to use that a lot because then
>> I can watch a trend from across the room, BIG numbers on the screen.
>>
>
> No eBay account? You pay full price for stuff when there's such a
> bonanza of good cheap gear available?
>
somewhere on the web.
> Reminds me of an old joke about why God made gentiles--somebody has to
> pay retail. ;)
>
Joerg
Dec 8, 2012, 3:51:12 PM12/8/12
to
Spehro Pefhany wrote:
> On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 17:54:24 -0500, the renowned Spehro Pefhany
> <spef...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
>
>> Pretty standard for decent Chinese stuff (usuable but not overly
>> impressive). Personally, I'd go for the Agilent 34401, but I know this
>> is a fraction of the price.
>>
>
> Sorry, I meant the 34410A (the 34401A is the predecessor). It's LXI
> Class C compliant as well as having USB.
>
> http://www.teknetelectronics.com/Search.asp?p_ID=20596&pDo=DETAIL
>
> Not too bad for such a nice instrument.
>
Strange: The price is clearly marked on this page yet one must submit
> On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 17:54:24 -0500, the renowned Spehro Pefhany
> <spef...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
>
>> Pretty standard for decent Chinese stuff (usuable but not overly
>> impressive). Personally, I'd go for the Agilent 34401, but I know this
>> is a fraction of the price.
>>
>
> Sorry, I meant the 34410A (the 34401A is the predecessor). It's LXI
> Class C compliant as well as having USB.
>
> http://www.teknetelectronics.com/Search.asp?p_ID=20596&pDo=DETAIL
>
> Not too bad for such a nice instrument.
>
for quotation. Really strange. Well, I'll see what they answer.
Nico Coesel
Dec 8, 2012, 4:00:28 PM12/8/12
to
>Does the build quality look ok?
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSu3rBqV9a9YUuYazWVCxRJsOdv3H22d6BdVYrY56x8g6mK8dPPD6m3HayO
I wouldn't count on the CAT rating being accurate but that is only
meaningfull if you connect a multimeter to a source which can deliver
a substantial amount of energy by means of arcing (IOW mains).
Joerg
Dec 8, 2012, 4:11:00 PM12/8/12
to
Nico Coesel wrote:
> Joerg <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Nico Coesel wrote:
>>> Joerg <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Gents,
>>>>
>>>> In the market for a new bench meter, 4-1/2 digits is sufficient. To my
>>>> surprise I saw on their web site that B&K is an American company which,
>>>> of course, I'd gladly support. Is it true for their meters and stuff
>>>> that they are at least engineered here? Are they good? Looking at the 2831E:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.bkprecision.com/products/multimeters/2831E-4-1-2-digit-true-rms-bench-digital-multimeter.html
>>>>
>>>> I really like VF displays, much more so than LCD.
>>> I have this one which seems to be just as accurate as the B&K:
>>>
>>> http://www.storeinfinity.com/vichy-vc8145-dmm-digital-bench-top-multimeter-meter-pc.html
>>>
>>> I bought it because it is one of the very few meters with backlight
>>> and 20A current handling capability.
>>>
>> Is the display big and easy to read out? I started needing glasses at
>> age 40 and then LCD became much less pleasant than VFD, even when
>> backlit they just don't have the same contrast.
>
> The digits are about 22mm high.
>
>> Does the build quality look ok?
>
> There is not much inside:
> http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSu3rBqV9a9YUuYazWVCxRJsOdv3H22d6BdVYrY56x8g6mK8dPPD6m3HayO
>
Oops, that looks just like the Uni-Trend meters. I think I'll buy the HP
> Joerg <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Nico Coesel wrote:
>>> Joerg <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Gents,
>>>>
>>>> In the market for a new bench meter, 4-1/2 digits is sufficient. To my
>>>> surprise I saw on their web site that B&K is an American company which,
>>>> of course, I'd gladly support. Is it true for their meters and stuff
>>>> that they are at least engineered here? Are they good? Looking at the 2831E:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.bkprecision.com/products/multimeters/2831E-4-1-2-digit-true-rms-bench-digital-multimeter.html
>>>>
>>>> I really like VF displays, much more so than LCD.
>>> I have this one which seems to be just as accurate as the B&K:
>>>
>>> http://www.storeinfinity.com/vichy-vc8145-dmm-digital-bench-top-multimeter-meter-pc.html
>>>
>>> I bought it because it is one of the very few meters with backlight
>>> and 20A current handling capability.
>>>
>> Is the display big and easy to read out? I started needing glasses at
>> age 40 and then LCD became much less pleasant than VFD, even when
>> backlit they just don't have the same contrast.
>
> The digits are about 22mm high.
>
>> Does the build quality look ok?
>
> There is not much inside:
> http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSu3rBqV9a9YUuYazWVCxRJsOdv3H22d6BdVYrY56x8g6mK8dPPD6m3HayO
>
from Spehro's link then unless they fail to honor their web price.
> I wouldn't count on the CAT rating being accurate but that is only
> meaningfull if you connect a multimeter to a source which can deliver
> a substantial amount of energy by means of arcing (IOW mains).
>
meter can't cause a meltdown there.
Spehro Pefhany
Dec 8, 2012, 4:13:50 PM12/8/12
to
Joerg
Dec 8, 2012, 4:27:44 PM12/8/12
to
Spehro Pefhany wrote:
> On Sat, 08 Dec 2012 12:51:12 -0800, the renowned Joerg
> <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Spehro Pefhany wrote:
>>> On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 17:54:24 -0500, the renowned Spehro Pefhany
>>> <spef...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Pretty standard for decent Chinese stuff (usuable but not overly
>>>> impressive). Personally, I'd go for the Agilent 34401, but I know this
>>>> is a fraction of the price.
>>>>
>>> Sorry, I meant the 34410A (the 34401A is the predecessor). It's LXI
>>> Class C compliant as well as having USB.
>>>
>>> http://www.teknetelectronics.com/Search.asp?p_ID=20596&pDo=DETAIL
>>>
>>> Not too bad for such a nice instrument.
>>>
>> Strange: The price is clearly marked on this page yet one must submit
>> for quotation. Really strange. Well, I'll see what they answer.
>
> Something is a bit fishy about that. I've also asked for a quote.
>
So let's see if they treat you as a Canadian and me as a US customer the
> On Sat, 08 Dec 2012 12:51:12 -0800, the renowned Joerg
> <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Spehro Pefhany wrote:
>>> On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 17:54:24 -0500, the renowned Spehro Pefhany
>>> <spef...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Pretty standard for decent Chinese stuff (usuable but not overly
>>>> impressive). Personally, I'd go for the Agilent 34401, but I know this
>>>> is a fraction of the price.
>>>>
>>> Sorry, I meant the 34410A (the 34401A is the predecessor). It's LXI
>>> Class C compliant as well as having USB.
>>>
>>> http://www.teknetelectronics.com/Search.asp?p_ID=20596&pDo=DETAIL
>>>
>>> Not too bad for such a nice instrument.
>>>
>> Strange: The price is clearly marked on this page yet one must submit
>> for quotation. Really strange. Well, I'll see what they answer.
>
> Something is a bit fishy about that. I've also asked for a quote.
>
same :-)
Beats me why they don't just provide an order button like everyone else.
Nico Coesel
Dec 8, 2012, 4:59:57 PM12/8/12
to
Joerg <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>Spehro Pefhany wrote:
>> On Sat, 08 Dec 2012 12:51:12 -0800, the renowned Joerg
>> <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Spehro Pefhany wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 17:54:24 -0500, the renowned Spehro Pefhany
>>>> <spef...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Pretty standard for decent Chinese stuff (usuable but not overly
>>>>> impressive). Personally, I'd go for the Agilent 34401, but I know this
>>>>> is a fraction of the price.
>>>>>
>>>> Sorry, I meant the 34410A (the 34401A is the predecessor). It's LXI
>>>> Class C compliant as well as having USB.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.teknetelectronics.com/Search.asp?p_ID=20596&pDo=DETAIL
>>>>
>>>> Not too bad for such a nice instrument.
>>>>
>>> Strange: The price is clearly marked on this page yet one must submit
>>> for quotation. Really strange. Well, I'll see what they answer.
>>
>> Something is a bit fishy about that. I've also asked for a quote.
>>
>
>So let's see if they treat you as a Canadian and me as a US customer the
>same :-)
About 8 years ago I bought a logic analyser from Teknet. No problems
>Spehro Pefhany wrote:
>> On Sat, 08 Dec 2012 12:51:12 -0800, the renowned Joerg
>> <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Spehro Pefhany wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 17:54:24 -0500, the renowned Spehro Pefhany
>>>> <spef...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Pretty standard for decent Chinese stuff (usuable but not overly
>>>>> impressive). Personally, I'd go for the Agilent 34401, but I know this
>>>>> is a fraction of the price.
>>>>>
>>>> Sorry, I meant the 34410A (the 34401A is the predecessor). It's LXI
>>>> Class C compliant as well as having USB.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.teknetelectronics.com/Search.asp?p_ID=20596&pDo=DETAIL
>>>>
>>>> Not too bad for such a nice instrument.
>>>>
>>> Strange: The price is clearly marked on this page yet one must submit
>>> for quotation. Really strange. Well, I'll see what they answer.
>>
>> Something is a bit fishy about that. I've also asked for a quote.
>>
>
>So let's see if they treat you as a Canadian and me as a US customer the
>same :-)
and well packed even though it only cost $66!
>Beats me why they don't just provide an order button like everyone else.
get you to call them (or allow them call you) for their sales pitch.
Ofcourse they can't compete with prices on Ebay.
John Miles, KE5FX
Dec 8, 2012, 5:17:35 PM12/8/12
to
On Dec 7, 5:38 pm, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
with the fan (5V IIRC) helps a lot.
Also, my 34410A powers up in 1000V DC mode about half the time, for no
apparent reason. So I have to hit the "DC V" button or the
"Autorange" button to get any usable precision.
Overall the 34410A is fine, but the 34401A has some ergonomic
advantages. Don't spend extra money on a 34410A unless you need it to
do something the 34401A can't do.
-- john, KE5FX
> Spehro Pefhany wrote:
> > Sorry, I meant the 34410A (the 34401A is the predecessor). It's LXI
> > Class C compliant as well as having USB.
>
> >http://www.teknetelectronics.com/Search.asp?p_ID=20596&pDo=DETAIL
>
> > Not too bad for such a nice instrument.
>
> Hmm, and it's on sale for under $1k. Tempting, tempting ...
>
Be prepared for an annoying whirring fan. Adding a Zener in series
> > Sorry, I meant the 34410A (the 34401A is the predecessor). It's LXI
> > Class C compliant as well as having USB.
>
> >http://www.teknetelectronics.com/Search.asp?p_ID=20596&pDo=DETAIL
>
> > Not too bad for such a nice instrument.
>
> Hmm, and it's on sale for under $1k. Tempting, tempting ...
>
with the fan (5V IIRC) helps a lot.
Also, my 34410A powers up in 1000V DC mode about half the time, for no
apparent reason. So I have to hit the "DC V" button or the
"Autorange" button to get any usable precision.
Overall the 34410A is fine, but the 34401A has some ergonomic
advantages. Don't spend extra money on a 34410A unless you need it to
do something the 34401A can't do.
-- john, KE5FX
Spehro Pefhany
Dec 8, 2012, 5:55:15 PM12/8/12
to
On Sat, 08 Dec 2012 13:27:44 -0800, the renowned Joerg
they like padding their shipping costs.
>Beats me why they don't just provide an order button like everyone else.
Yes. Maybe they don't have them in stock.
<inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>Spehro Pefhany wrote:
>> On Sat, 08 Dec 2012 12:51:12 -0800, the renowned Joerg
>> <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Spehro Pefhany wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 17:54:24 -0500, the renowned Spehro Pefhany
>>>> <spef...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Pretty standard for decent Chinese stuff (usuable but not overly
>>>>> impressive). Personally, I'd go for the Agilent 34401, but I know this
>>>>> is a fraction of the price.
>>>>>
>>>> Sorry, I meant the 34410A (the 34401A is the predecessor). It's LXI
>>>> Class C compliant as well as having USB.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.teknetelectronics.com/Search.asp?p_ID=20596&pDo=DETAIL
>>>>
>>>> Not too bad for such a nice instrument.
>>>>
>>> Strange: The price is clearly marked on this page yet one must submit
>>> for quotation. Really strange. Well, I'll see what they answer.
>>
>> Something is a bit fishy about that. I've also asked for a quote.
>>
>
>So let's see if they treat you as a Canadian and me as a US customer the
>same :-)
I've asked for a shipment to a US address as an option, just in case
>Spehro Pefhany wrote:
>> On Sat, 08 Dec 2012 12:51:12 -0800, the renowned Joerg
>> <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Spehro Pefhany wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 17:54:24 -0500, the renowned Spehro Pefhany
>>>> <spef...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Pretty standard for decent Chinese stuff (usuable but not overly
>>>>> impressive). Personally, I'd go for the Agilent 34401, but I know this
>>>>> is a fraction of the price.
>>>>>
>>>> Sorry, I meant the 34410A (the 34401A is the predecessor). It's LXI
>>>> Class C compliant as well as having USB.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.teknetelectronics.com/Search.asp?p_ID=20596&pDo=DETAIL
>>>>
>>>> Not too bad for such a nice instrument.
>>>>
>>> Strange: The price is clearly marked on this page yet one must submit
>>> for quotation. Really strange. Well, I'll see what they answer.
>>
>> Something is a bit fishy about that. I've also asked for a quote.
>>
>
>So let's see if they treat you as a Canadian and me as a US customer the
>same :-)
they like padding their shipping costs.
>Beats me why they don't just provide an order button like everyone else.
Spehro Pefhany
Dec 8, 2012, 6:04:49 PM12/8/12
to
On Sat, 08 Dec 2012 21:59:57 GMT, the renowned ni...@puntnl.niks (Nico
Coesel) wrote:
>
>That seems to be normal these days for equipment dealers. They like to
>get you to call them (or allow them call you) for their sales pitch.
>Ofcourse they can't compete with prices on Ebay.
They should be able to- they're not paying eBay's rather substantial
Coesel) wrote:
>
>That seems to be normal these days for equipment dealers. They like to
>get you to call them (or allow them call you) for their sales pitch.
>Ofcourse they can't compete with prices on Ebay.
cut and probably getting a better deal on the CC cut than PP.
The small guys are sometimes better on shipping- I paid one nice
fellow in North Carolina $50 to make a really secure crate for an
olddly shaped machine that had to be shipped freight (hundreds of
pounds).. I think there was $40 worth of lumber and screws in it, and
at least an hour's hard work. He probably had the bits lying around so
it was mostly labor, but a real business couldn't operate that way.
Joerg
Dec 8, 2012, 6:20:16 PM12/8/12
to
John Miles, KE5FX wrote:
> On Dec 7, 5:38 pm, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> Spehro Pefhany wrote:
>>> Sorry, I meant the 34410A (the 34401A is the predecessor). It's LXI
>>> Class C compliant as well as having USB.
>>> http://www.teknetelectronics.com/Search.asp?p_ID=20596&pDo=DETAIL
>>> Not too bad for such a nice instrument.
>> Hmm, and it's on sale for under $1k. Tempting, tempting ...
>>
>
>
> Be prepared for an annoying whirring fan. Adding a Zener in series
> with the fan (5V IIRC) helps a lot.
>
Ugh, that is not so nice. Why can't they get it into their heads that a
> On Dec 7, 5:38 pm, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> Spehro Pefhany wrote:
>>> Sorry, I meant the 34410A (the 34401A is the predecessor). It's LXI
>>> Class C compliant as well as having USB.
>>> http://www.teknetelectronics.com/Search.asp?p_ID=20596&pDo=DETAIL
>>> Not too bad for such a nice instrument.
>> Hmm, and it's on sale for under $1k. Tempting, tempting ...
>>
>
>
> Be prepared for an annoying whirring fan. Adding a Zener in series
> with the fan (5V IIRC) helps a lot.
>
fan can be temperature-controlled?
> Also, my 34410A powers up in 1000V DC mode about half the time, for no
> apparent reason. So I have to hit the "DC V" button or the
> "Autorange" button to get any usable precision.
>
> Overall the 34410A is fine, but the 34401A has some ergonomic
> advantages. Don't spend extra money on a 34410A unless you need it to
> do something the 34401A can't do.
>
than the old one. The cap sensing feature is nice, on a 6-1/2 digit
meter I should be able to see 0.0-something picofarad trending in
capacitance if I make the wiring super-quiet (and don't move ...). AFAIK
the 34401A can't do that.
John Larkin
Dec 8, 2012, 6:25:53 PM12/8/12
to
On Sat, 8 Dec 2012 14:17:35 -0800 (PST), "John Miles, KE5FX" <jmi...@gmail.com>
wrote:
The 34401A kicked a hige bunch of spikes out of its input terminals, apparently
coupled from the VF display.
wrote:
coupled from the VF display.
Joerg
Dec 8, 2012, 6:31:28 PM12/8/12
to
John Larkin wrote:
> On Sat, 8 Dec 2012 14:17:35 -0800 (PST), "John Miles, KE5FX" <jmi...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Dec 7, 5:38 pm, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> Spehro Pefhany wrote:
>>>> Sorry, I meant the 34410A (the 34401A is the predecessor). It's LXI
>>>> Class C compliant as well as having USB.
>>>> http://www.teknetelectronics.com/Search.asp?p_ID=20596&pDo=DETAIL
>>>> Not too bad for such a nice instrument.
>>> Hmm, and it's on sale for under $1k. Tempting, tempting ...
>>>
>>
>> Be prepared for an annoying whirring fan. Adding a Zener in series
>> with the fan (5V IIRC) helps a lot.
>>
>> Also, my 34410A powers up in 1000V DC mode about half the time, for no
>> apparent reason. So I have to hit the "DC V" button or the
>> "Autorange" button to get any usable precision.
>>
>> Overall the 34410A is fine, but the 34401A has some ergonomic
>> advantages. Don't spend extra money on a 34410A unless you need it to
>> do something the 34401A can't do.
>>
>> -- john, KE5FX
>
> The 34401A kicked a hige bunch of spikes out of its input terminals, apparently
> coupled from the VF display.
>
Yikes. I hope they fixed that.
> On Sat, 8 Dec 2012 14:17:35 -0800 (PST), "John Miles, KE5FX" <jmi...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Dec 7, 5:38 pm, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> Spehro Pefhany wrote:
>>>> Sorry, I meant the 34410A (the 34401A is the predecessor). It's LXI
>>>> Class C compliant as well as having USB.
>>>> http://www.teknetelectronics.com/Search.asp?p_ID=20596&pDo=DETAIL
>>>> Not too bad for such a nice instrument.
>>> Hmm, and it's on sale for under $1k. Tempting, tempting ...
>>>
>>
>> Be prepared for an annoying whirring fan. Adding a Zener in series
>> with the fan (5V IIRC) helps a lot.
>>
>> Also, my 34410A powers up in 1000V DC mode about half the time, for no
>> apparent reason. So I have to hit the "DC V" button or the
>> "Autorange" button to get any usable precision.
>>
>> Overall the 34410A is fine, but the 34401A has some ergonomic
>> advantages. Don't spend extra money on a 34410A unless you need it to
>> do something the 34401A can't do.
>>
>> -- john, KE5FX
>
> The 34401A kicked a hige bunch of spikes out of its input terminals, apparently
> coupled from the VF display.
>
Nico Coesel
Dec 8, 2012, 6:41:26 PM12/8/12
to
Spehro Pefhany <spef...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
>On Sat, 08 Dec 2012 21:59:57 GMT, the renowned ni...@puntnl.niks (Nico
>Coesel) wrote:
>
>>
>>That seems to be normal these days for equipment dealers. They like to
>>get you to call them (or allow them call you) for their sales pitch.
>>Ofcourse they can't compete with prices on Ebay.
>
>They should be able to- they're not paying eBay's rather substantial
>cut and probably getting a better deal on the CC cut than PP.
The problem is that many equipment dealers think they sell gold. Some
>On Sat, 08 Dec 2012 21:59:57 GMT, the renowned ni...@puntnl.niks (Nico
>Coesel) wrote:
>
>>
>>That seems to be normal these days for equipment dealers. They like to
>>get you to call them (or allow them call you) for their sales pitch.
>>Ofcourse they can't compete with prices on Ebay.
>
>They should be able to- they're not paying eBay's rather substantial
>cut and probably getting a better deal on the CC cut than PP.
buyers still fall for NIST traceable calibration and 'waranty'. In
reality you are buying old equipment that usually isn't even cleaned.
And there is also a lot of equipment for which equipment dealers want
insane prices while there are several Chinese manufacturers with
similar instruments which cost about 1/3 of the price brand new.
Joerg
Dec 8, 2012, 7:04:24 PM12/8/12
to
John Larkin wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Dec 2012 16:23:22 -0800 (PST), George Herold
> <ghe...@teachspin.com> wrote:
>>
>> I've used my 2100 for ~0.1% (four figure) measurements. (Mostly as an
>> AC and DC voltmeter) Beyond that I don't have anything to compare it
>> to. What was your problem?
>>
>> George H.
>
> For one, it powered up taking about a zillion measurements per second,
> so the display was a blur. It took a lot of menu flogging to get the
> rate down to human levels, and that setup couldn't be saved. And one
> of the three units crashed, just displayed some goofy diagnostic
> message.
>
> My Fluke 8845A is great.
>
Amazon has got them for $932 plus tax, free shipping:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B000KMB25A/ref=sr_1_2_olp?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1355011189&sr=1-2&keywords=8845A&condition=new
But the bummer is 3-5 weeks leadtime. Didn't they make enough? Don't
they know that much of such gear has to be shipped before Dec-31?
> On Fri, 7 Dec 2012 16:23:22 -0800 (PST), George Herold
> <ghe...@teachspin.com> wrote:
>
>> On Dec 7, 6:00 pm, John Larkin <jlar...@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 12:54:17 -0800, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> George Herold wrote:
>> On Dec 7, 6:00 pm, John Larkin <jlar...@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 12:54:17 -0800, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> George Herold wrote:
>>>>> On Dec 7, 3:14 pm, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> Gents,
>>>>>> In the market for a new bench meter, 4-1/2 digits is sufficient. To my
>>>>>> surprise I saw on their web site that B&K is an American company which,
>>>>>> of course, I'd gladly support. Is it true for their meters and stuff
>>>>>> that they are at least engineered here? Are they good? Looking at the 2831E:
>>>>>> http://www.bkprecision.com/products/multimeters/2831E-4-1-2-digit-tru...
>>>>>> Gents,
>>>>>> In the market for a new bench meter, 4-1/2 digits is sufficient. To my
>>>>>> surprise I saw on their web site that B&K is an American company which,
>>>>>> of course, I'd gladly support. Is it true for their meters and stuff
>>>>>> that they are at least engineered here? Are they good? Looking at the 2831E:
>>>>>> I really like VF displays, much more so than LCD.
>>>>> I've got a hand held B&K DMM. I like it, pretty much the same
>>>>> readings as a more expensive fluke, whenever I've checked. I've also
>>>>> got a bench voltmeter from Keithley (2100), 6/12 digits, not much more
>>>>> than the B&K.
>>>> Thanks, good to know. The Keithley is more than 2x the price even as a
>>>> refurb.
>>>> http://www.testequipmentconnection.com/29842/Keithley_2100.php
>>> The 2100 is a generic Chinese rebrand. You see it all over the place.
>>> I had three and sent them all back. I annoyed Keithley so much that
>>> they gave me 2000's instead.
>>>
>>> http://www.testitnow.co.uk/shop/detail/37-array/flypage/692-array-m35...
>>>
>>>>> readings as a more expensive fluke, whenever I've checked. I've also
>>>>> got a bench voltmeter from Keithley (2100), 6/12 digits, not much more
>>>>> than the B&K.
>>>> Thanks, good to know. The Keithley is more than 2x the price even as a
>>>> refurb.
>>>> http://www.testequipmentconnection.com/29842/Keithley_2100.php
>>> The 2100 is a generic Chinese rebrand. You see it all over the place.
>>> I had three and sent them all back. I annoyed Keithley so much that
>>> they gave me 2000's instead.
>>>
>>> http://www.testitnow.co.uk/shop/detail/37-array/flypage/692-array-m35...
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
>>>
>>> jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot comhttp://www.highlandtechnology.com
>>>
>>>
>>> John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
>>>
>>> jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot comhttp://www.highlandtechnology.com
>>>
>>> Precision electronic instrumentation
>>> Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators
>>> Custom laser drivers and controllers
>>> Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators
>>> Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links
>>> VME thermocouple, LVDT, synchro acquisition and simulation- Hide quoted text -
>>>
>>> - Show quoted text -
>> Hmm interesting, thanks.
>>>
>>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> I've used my 2100 for ~0.1% (four figure) measurements. (Mostly as an
>> AC and DC voltmeter) Beyond that I don't have anything to compare it
>> to. What was your problem?
>>
>> George H.
>
> For one, it powered up taking about a zillion measurements per second,
> so the display was a blur. It took a lot of menu flogging to get the
> rate down to human levels, and that setup couldn't be saved. And one
> of the three units crashed, just displayed some goofy diagnostic
> message.
>
> My Fluke 8845A is great.
>
Amazon has got them for $932 plus tax, free shipping:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B000KMB25A/ref=sr_1_2_olp?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1355011189&sr=1-2&keywords=8845A&condition=new
But the bummer is 3-5 weeks leadtime. Didn't they make enough? Don't
they know that much of such gear has to be shipped before Dec-31?
josephkk
Dec 8, 2012, 11:53:24 PM12/8/12
to
On Sat, 08 Dec 2012 16:04:24 -0800, Joerg <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> For one, it powered up taking about a zillion measurements per second,
>> so the display was a blur. It took a lot of menu flogging to get the
>> rate down to human levels, and that setup couldn't be saved. And one
>> of the three units crashed, just displayed some goofy diagnostic
>> message.
>>
>> My Fluke 8845A is great.
>>
>
>Amazon has got them for $932 plus tax, free shipping:
>
>http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B000KMB25A/ref=sr_1_2_olp?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1355011189&sr=1-2&keywords=8845A&condition=new
>
>But the bummer is 3-5 weeks leadtime. Didn't they make enough? Don't
>they know that much of such gear has to be shipped before Dec-31?
That's very nice but i will stick with my Keithley 196 thank you.
>
>> For one, it powered up taking about a zillion measurements per second,
>> so the display was a blur. It took a lot of menu flogging to get the
>> rate down to human levels, and that setup couldn't be saved. And one
>> of the three units crashed, just displayed some goofy diagnostic
>> message.
>>
>> My Fluke 8845A is great.
>>
>
>Amazon has got them for $932 plus tax, free shipping:
>
>http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B000KMB25A/ref=sr_1_2_olp?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1355011189&sr=1-2&keywords=8845A&condition=new
>
>But the bummer is 3-5 weeks leadtime. Didn't they make enough? Don't
>they know that much of such gear has to be shipped before Dec-31?
?-)
josephkk
Dec 9, 2012, 12:01:45 AM12/9/12
to
On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 16:35:15 -0500, Spehro Pefhany
<spef...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
>
>>> when I saw B&K I thought Brüel & Kjær , but I guess it is not the same
>>> company
>>>
>>
>>Thought the same a few years ago. However, this one is a US company (now
<spef...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
>
>>> when I saw B&K I thought Brüel & Kjær , but I guess it is not the same
>>> company
>>>
>>
>>branched out worldwide). The founder might have European roots, but more
>>in Germany than in Denmark.
>
>B&K and Bruel and Kjaer are NOTHING like each other. If their meters
>are like their power supplies that I've seen they're just rebranded
>Chinese (probably Taiwan invested Chinese) product.
They so were never similar. The US based B&K is third tier most of the
time, sometimes worse sometimes better. Kind of Muntz or similar.
Bruel and Kjaer has never produced crap as far as the very little i do
know about them.
?-)
josephkk
Dec 9, 2012, 12:56:01 AM12/9/12
to
On Fri, 7 Dec 2012 18:32:09 -0500, "P E Schoen" <pa...@peschoen.com> wrote:
>"Klaus Bahner" wrote in message
>news:50c27291$0$283$1472...@news.sunsite.dk...
>
>> Don't know the B&K, but if your budget is flexible I can recommend the
>> Fluke 8845A/8846A. Excellent and extremely useful bench meter.
>
>> Only minuses are that it likes to stay connected to the mains even if
>> switched off, perhaps to keep the reference heated. If completely
>> disconnected it takes a long (say 30 sec) initializing phase before it can
>> be used. Found it also annoying that the maximum logging length is limited
>> to 50.000 measurements even if you store on an USB stick (8846A).
>
>It does have excellent AC True-RMS accuracy of 0.04% RDG + 0.02% Range, but
>it is AC coupled. The Fluke 45 uses a calculated AC+DC measurement which is
>sqrt(AC^2+DC^2).
>
>The 8845/6 also has Kelvin resistance measurement which is lacking on the
>45. I think that is a very important feature, especially measuring low ohms
>or to compensate for lead and clip resistance.
>
>Paul
An interesting thing to note. Below about 100 Ohms they (Kelvin clips)
become essential for 6.5 digits, and favored below 1k. Of course for some
meters and resistors the on/off current for 6.5 digit measurements
disrupts the reading. I was involved with solutions to this issue for 7.5
digit measurements where the resistor self heating during measurement
wiped out proper repeatability beyond 5 digits. Had to go to a massively
expensive mercury wetted latching relay system and full Standard resistor
based ratiometric 12 terminal measurement. The DUT as well as the
standard resistors were kept powered at operating current at all times
(other then relay switching times (about 2 milliseconds).
?-)
>"Klaus Bahner" wrote in message
>news:50c27291$0$283$1472...@news.sunsite.dk...
>
>> Don't know the B&K, but if your budget is flexible I can recommend the
>> Fluke 8845A/8846A. Excellent and extremely useful bench meter.
>
>> Only minuses are that it likes to stay connected to the mains even if
>> switched off, perhaps to keep the reference heated. If completely
>> disconnected it takes a long (say 30 sec) initializing phase before it can
>> be used. Found it also annoying that the maximum logging length is limited
>> to 50.000 measurements even if you store on an USB stick (8846A).
>
>It does have excellent AC True-RMS accuracy of 0.04% RDG + 0.02% Range, but
>it is AC coupled. The Fluke 45 uses a calculated AC+DC measurement which is
>sqrt(AC^2+DC^2).
>
>The 8845/6 also has Kelvin resistance measurement which is lacking on the
>45. I think that is a very important feature, especially measuring low ohms
>or to compensate for lead and clip resistance.
>
>Paul
An interesting thing to note. Below about 100 Ohms they (Kelvin clips)
become essential for 6.5 digits, and favored below 1k. Of course for some
meters and resistors the on/off current for 6.5 digit measurements
disrupts the reading. I was involved with solutions to this issue for 7.5
digit measurements where the resistor self heating during measurement
wiped out proper repeatability beyond 5 digits. Had to go to a massively
expensive mercury wetted latching relay system and full Standard resistor
based ratiometric 12 terminal measurement. The DUT as well as the
standard resistors were kept powered at operating current at all times
(other then relay switching times (about 2 milliseconds).
?-)
Klaus Kragelund
Dec 9, 2012, 6:01:32 AM12/9/12
to
On Saturday, December 8, 2012 12:50:33 AM UTC+1, John Larkin wrote:
> On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 15:00:20 -0800, John Larkin
>
> <jla...@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 15:00:20 -0800, John Larkin
>
>
>
>
> >On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 12:54:17 -0800, Joerg <inv...@invalid.invalid>
>
> >wrote:
>
> >
>
> >>George Herold wrote:
>
> >>> On Dec 7, 3:14 pm, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
> >>>> Gents,
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>> In the market for a new bench meter, 4-1/2 digits is sufficient. To my
>
> >>>> surprise I saw on their web site that B&K is an American company which,
>
> >>>> of course, I'd gladly support. Is it true for their meters and stuff
>
> >>>> that they are at least engineered here? Are they good? Looking at the 2831E:
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>> http://www.bkprecision.com/products/multimeters/2831E-4-1-2-digit-tru...
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>> I really like VF displays, much more so than LCD.
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>> --
>
> >>>> Regards, Joerg
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>> http://www.analogconsultants.com/
>
> >>>
>
> >>> I've got a hand held B&K DMM. I like it, pretty much the same
>
> >>> readings as a more expensive fluke, whenever I've checked. I've also
>
> >>> got a bench voltmeter from Keithley (2100), 6/12 digits, not much more
>
> >>> than the B&K.
>
> >>>
>
> >>
>
> >>Thanks, good to know. The Keithley is more than 2x the price even as a
>
> >>refurb.
>
> >>
>
> >>http://www.testequipmentconnection.com/29842/Keithley_2100.php
>
> >
>
> >The 2100 is a generic Chinese rebrand. You see it all over the place.
>
> >I had three and sent them all back. I annoyed Keithley so much that
>
> >they gave me 2000's instead.
>
> >
>
> >http://www.testitnow.co.uk/shop/detail/37-array/flypage/692-array-m3500a-6-12-digit-high-performance-dmm?sef=hcfp
> >wrote:
>
> >
>
> >>George Herold wrote:
>
> >>> On Dec 7, 3:14 pm, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
> >>>> Gents,
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>> In the market for a new bench meter, 4-1/2 digits is sufficient. To my
>
> >>>> surprise I saw on their web site that B&K is an American company which,
>
> >>>> of course, I'd gladly support. Is it true for their meters and stuff
>
> >>>> that they are at least engineered here? Are they good? Looking at the 2831E:
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>> http://www.bkprecision.com/products/multimeters/2831E-4-1-2-digit-tru...
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>> I really like VF displays, much more so than LCD.
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>> --
>
> >>>> Regards, Joerg
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>> http://www.analogconsultants.com/
>
> >>>
>
> >>> I've got a hand held B&K DMM. I like it, pretty much the same
>
> >>> readings as a more expensive fluke, whenever I've checked. I've also
>
> >>> got a bench voltmeter from Keithley (2100), 6/12 digits, not much more
>
> >>> than the B&K.
>
> >>>
>
> >>
>
> >>Thanks, good to know. The Keithley is more than 2x the price even as a
>
> >>refurb.
>
> >>
>
> >>http://www.testequipmentconnection.com/29842/Keithley_2100.php
>
> >
>
> >The 2100 is a generic Chinese rebrand. You see it all over the place.
>
> >I had three and sent them all back. I annoyed Keithley so much that
>
> >they gave me 2000's instead.
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Oh, I also bought a Keithley 2401 source/measurement unit.
>
>
>
> It does this,
>
>
>
> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/53724080/Gear/2401.JPG
>
>
>
> and if you grab one of the insulated test leads, it does this:
>
>
>
> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/53724080/Gear/2401_EMI.JPG
>
>
>
> It has a CE sticker, but there's no way it really passed the EMI
>
> tests.
>
>
>
> Sent it back too.
>
We use the Keithley 2400. Its ok, but has quirks.
>
>
>
>
> Oh, I also bought a Keithley 2401 source/measurement unit.
>
>
>
> It does this,
>
>
>
> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/53724080/Gear/2401.JPG
>
>
>
> and if you grab one of the insulated test leads, it does this:
>
>
>
> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/53724080/Gear/2401_EMI.JPG
>
>
>
> It has a CE sticker, but there's no way it really passed the EMI
>
> tests.
>
>
>
> Sent it back too.
>
x Using the GPIB to read back the voltage at the terminals returns the current instead
x One model we had would display the terminal voltage, but verifying with external meter it was offset by 150mV
x The annoying beep when pressing keys needs to be turned off after each power-up.
Regards
Klaus
Joerg
Dec 9, 2012, 10:25:55 AM12/9/12
to
Klaus Kragelund wrote:
[...]
> x The annoying beep when pressing keys needs to be turned off after each power-up.
>
Yes, that is always annoying. My general solution to that is pretty
straightforward and "surgical": Snip ... beep gone, and it never comes
back :-)
[...]
> x The annoying beep when pressing keys needs to be turned off after each power-up.
>
straightforward and "surgical": Snip ... beep gone, and it never comes
back :-)
John Larkin
Dec 9, 2012, 11:46:26 AM12/9/12
to
On Sun, 09 Dec 2012 07:25:55 -0800, Joerg <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>Klaus Kragelund wrote:
>
>[...]
>
>
>> x The annoying beep when pressing keys needs to be turned off after each power-up.
>>
>
>Yes, that is always annoying. My general solution to that is pretty
>straightforward and "surgical": Snip ... beep gone, and it never comes
>back :-)
Whenever I buy a microwave oven, first thing I do is open it up and break the
>Klaus Kragelund wrote:
>
>[...]
>
>
>> x The annoying beep when pressing keys needs to be turned off after each power-up.
>>
>
>Yes, that is always annoying. My general solution to that is pretty
>straightforward and "surgical": Snip ... beep gone, and it never comes
>back :-)
piezo beeper. Most have a "wire bond" type attachment to the ceramic wafer that
you can snap off easily with a long screwdriver.
I don't need to be told that I pressed a button, and I don't need five long
beeps to tell me that it just shut off; that's obvious.
Keithley is a mess lately. They seem incapable of fixing code bugs. And the 2400
seems to have serious analog problems. Their old stuff was wonderful.
This is a great gadget, cost me $80 or some such on ebay...
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/53724080/Gear/Keithley.JPG
There's a 100 Gohm 0805 resistor on that Pomoma plug.
--
John Larkin Highland Technology Inc
www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com
Precision electronic instrumentation
Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators
Custom timing and laser controllers
Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators
Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links
Joerg
Dec 9, 2012, 4:17:15 PM12/9/12
to
John Larkin wrote:
> On Sun, 09 Dec 2012 07:25:55 -0800, Joerg <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Klaus Kragelund wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>
>>> x The annoying beep when pressing keys needs to be turned off after each power-up.
>>>
>> Yes, that is always annoying. My general solution to that is pretty
>> straightforward and "surgical": Snip ... beep gone, and it never comes
>> back :-)
>
> Whenever I buy a microwave oven, first thing I do is open it up and break the
> piezo beeper. Most have a "wire bond" type attachment to the ceramic wafer that
> you can snap off easily with a long screwdriver.
>
> I don't need to be told that I pressed a button, and I don't need five long
> beeps to tell me that it just shut off; that's obvious.
>
> Keithley is a mess lately. They seem incapable of fixing code bugs. And the 2400
> seems to have serious analog problems. Their old stuff was wonderful.
>
Aren't Tektronix, Fluke and Keithley now under the same roof (Danaher)?
> On Sun, 09 Dec 2012 07:25:55 -0800, Joerg <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Klaus Kragelund wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>
>>> x The annoying beep when pressing keys needs to be turned off after each power-up.
>>>
>> Yes, that is always annoying. My general solution to that is pretty
>> straightforward and "surgical": Snip ... beep gone, and it never comes
>> back :-)
>
> Whenever I buy a microwave oven, first thing I do is open it up and break the
> piezo beeper. Most have a "wire bond" type attachment to the ceramic wafer that
> you can snap off easily with a long screwdriver.
>
> I don't need to be told that I pressed a button, and I don't need five long
> beeps to tell me that it just shut off; that's obvious.
>
> Keithley is a mess lately. They seem incapable of fixing code bugs. And the 2400
> seems to have serious analog problems. Their old stuff was wonderful.
>
> This is a great gadget, cost me $80 or some such on ebay...
>
> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/53724080/Gear/Keithley.JPG
>
> There's a 100 Gohm 0805 resistor on that Pomoma plug.
>
a company auction. The meter is at least 3x that size.
Message has been deleted
John Larkin
Dec 9, 2012, 4:31:59 PM12/9/12
to
On Sun, 09 Dec 2012 13:17:15 -0800, Joerg <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>John Larkin wrote:
>> On Sun, 09 Dec 2012 07:25:55 -0800, Joerg <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Klaus Kragelund wrote:
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>>
>>>> x The annoying beep when pressing keys needs to be turned off after each power-up.
>>>>
>>> Yes, that is always annoying. My general solution to that is pretty
>>> straightforward and "surgical": Snip ... beep gone, and it never comes
>>> back :-)
>>
>> Whenever I buy a microwave oven, first thing I do is open it up and break the
>> piezo beeper. Most have a "wire bond" type attachment to the ceramic wafer that
>> you can snap off easily with a long screwdriver.
>>
>> I don't need to be told that I pressed a button, and I don't need five long
>> beeps to tell me that it just shut off; that's obvious.
>>
>> Keithley is a mess lately. They seem incapable of fixing code bugs. And the 2400
>> seems to have serious analog problems. Their old stuff was wonderful.
>>
>
>Aren't Tektronix, Fluke and Keithley now under the same roof (Danaher)?
Yup. I wonder when they will get around to trashing Fluke.
>John Larkin wrote:
>> On Sun, 09 Dec 2012 07:25:55 -0800, Joerg <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Klaus Kragelund wrote:
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>>
>>>> x The annoying beep when pressing keys needs to be turned off after each power-up.
>>>>
>>> Yes, that is always annoying. My general solution to that is pretty
>>> straightforward and "surgical": Snip ... beep gone, and it never comes
>>> back :-)
>>
>> Whenever I buy a microwave oven, first thing I do is open it up and break the
>> piezo beeper. Most have a "wire bond" type attachment to the ceramic wafer that
>> you can snap off easily with a long screwdriver.
>>
>> I don't need to be told that I pressed a button, and I don't need five long
>> beeps to tell me that it just shut off; that's obvious.
>>
>> Keithley is a mess lately. They seem incapable of fixing code bugs. And the 2400
>> seems to have serious analog problems. Their old stuff was wonderful.
>>
>
>Aren't Tektronix, Fluke and Keithley now under the same roof (Danaher)?
>
>
>> This is a great gadget, cost me $80 or some such on ebay...
>>
>> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/53724080/Gear/Keithley.JPG
>>
>> There's a 100 Gohm 0805 resistor on that Pomoma plug.
>>
>
>I have something similar for RF signals from Rohde & Schwarz, bought at
>a company auction. The meter is at least 3x that size.
John Larkin
Dec 9, 2012, 4:37:03 PM12/9/12
to
On Sun, 09 Dec 2012 13:27:47 -0800, Fred Abse <excret...@invalid.invalid>
wrote:
>On Sun, 09 Dec 2012 08:46:26 -0800, John Larkin wrote:
>
>> This is a great gadget, cost me $80 or some such on ebay...
>>
>> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/53724080/Gear/Keithley.JPG
>
>I have one of those.
The manual says to replace the higher-ohm range resistors every *six months*.
Mine probably haven't been replaced in 30 or 40 years. It's as accurate as I can
verify, 5% or better, given the high-ohm resistors that I have.
wrote:
>On Sun, 09 Dec 2012 08:46:26 -0800, John Larkin wrote:
>
>> This is a great gadget, cost me $80 or some such on ebay...
>>
>> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/53724080/Gear/Keithley.JPG
>
The manual says to replace the higher-ohm range resistors every *six months*.
Mine probably haven't been replaced in 30 or 40 years. It's as accurate as I can
verify, 5% or better, given the high-ohm resistors that I have.
Nico Coesel
Dec 9, 2012, 4:17:28 PM12/9/12
to
second hand gear). When buying used gear you need to test and check it
thouroughly to make sure there are no hidden defects. When I buy used
equipment I usually take it apart for a thourough cleaning and
(safety) inspection.
Joerg
Dec 9, 2012, 5:54:20 PM12/9/12
to
dangerous depending on what you measure.
Nico Coesel
Dec 10, 2012, 5:32:48 AM12/10/12
to
JW
Dec 10, 2012, 7:00:12 AM12/10/12
to
On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 15:50:33 -0800 John Larkin
<jla...@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in Message id:
<dsv4c89b0nnen2vvq...@4ax.com>:
>>http://www.testitnow.co.uk/shop/detail/37-array/flypage/692-array-m3500a-6-12-digit-high-performance-dmm?sef=hcfp
>
>
>Oh, I also bought a Keithley 2401 source/measurement unit.
>
>It does this,
>
>https://dl.dropbox.com/u/53724080/Gear/2401.JPG
>
>and if you grab one of the insulated test leads, it does this:
>
>https://dl.dropbox.com/u/53724080/Gear/2401_EMI.JPG
>
>It has a CE sticker, but there's no way it really passed the EMI
>tests.
>
>Sent it back too.
I wonder if it would have behaved differently in 4 wire mode?
<jla...@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in Message id:
<dsv4c89b0nnen2vvq...@4ax.com>:
>>http://www.testitnow.co.uk/shop/detail/37-array/flypage/692-array-m3500a-6-12-digit-high-performance-dmm?sef=hcfp
>
>
>Oh, I also bought a Keithley 2401 source/measurement unit.
>
>It does this,
>
>https://dl.dropbox.com/u/53724080/Gear/2401.JPG
>
>and if you grab one of the insulated test leads, it does this:
>
>https://dl.dropbox.com/u/53724080/Gear/2401_EMI.JPG
>
>It has a CE sticker, but there's no way it really passed the EMI
>tests.
>
>Sent it back too.
Joerg
Dec 10, 2012, 9:53:46 AM12/10/12
to
Spehro Pefhany wrote:
> On Sat, 08 Dec 2012 12:51:12 -0800, the renowned Joerg
> <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Spehro Pefhany wrote:
>>> On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 17:54:24 -0500, the renowned Spehro Pefhany
>>> <spef...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Pretty standard for decent Chinese stuff (usuable but not overly
>>>> impressive). Personally, I'd go for the Agilent 34401, but I know this
>>>> is a fraction of the price.
>>>>
>>> Sorry, I meant the 34410A (the 34401A is the predecessor). It's LXI
>>> Class C compliant as well as having USB.
>>>
>>> http://www.teknetelectronics.com/Search.asp?p_ID=20596&pDo=DETAIL
>>>
>>> Not too bad for such a nice instrument.
>>>
>> Strange: The price is clearly marked on this page yet one must submit
>> for quotation. Really strange. Well, I'll see what they answer.
>
> Something is a bit fishy about that. I've also asked for a quote.
>
Well, waltzed into my office this morning is this is my "quote":
> On Sat, 08 Dec 2012 12:51:12 -0800, the renowned Joerg
> <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Spehro Pefhany wrote:
>>> On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 17:54:24 -0500, the renowned Spehro Pefhany
>>> <spef...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Pretty standard for decent Chinese stuff (usuable but not overly
>>>> impressive). Personally, I'd go for the Agilent 34401, but I know this
>>>> is a fraction of the price.
>>>>
>>> Sorry, I meant the 34410A (the 34401A is the predecessor). It's LXI
>>> Class C compliant as well as having USB.
>>>
>>> http://www.teknetelectronics.com/Search.asp?p_ID=20596&pDo=DETAIL
>>>
>>> Not too bad for such a nice instrument.
>>>
>> Strange: The price is clearly marked on this page yet one must submit
>> for quotation. Really strange. Well, I'll see what they answer.
>
> Something is a bit fishy about that. I've also asked for a quote.
>
"Recent strong demand for the HP - Agilent 34410A has placed it on
backorder with no firm availability dates and pricing established by our
suppliers. Accordingly, no quotation for this equipment can be provided
at this time".
So, no Agilent I guess :-(
Joerg
Dec 10, 2012, 10:49:53 AM12/10/12
to
can't sell me one anyhow. So, on to Fluke or some other company then I
guess.
Nico Coesel
Dec 10, 2012, 11:28:41 AM12/10/12
to
http://www.teknetelectronics.com/Search.asp?p_ID=20596&pDo=DETAIL
At the top of the page it says 'used multimeter'.
Spehro Pefhany
Dec 10, 2012, 12:26:07 PM12/10/12
to
On Mon, 10 Dec 2012 06:53:46 -0800, Joerg <inv...@invalid.invalid>
Gee, he offered me an additional discount. ;-)
Okay, just joking. Looks like it's a come-on.
--sp
Reference: Request For Quotation - HP - Agilent 34410A
Dear Spehro,
Thank you for your recent request for quotation.
Recent strong demand for the HP - Agilent 34410A has placed it on
backorder with no firm availability dates and pricing established by
our suppliers. Accordingly, no quotation for this equipment can be
provided at this time.
There may be other equipment choices which could satisfy your
immediate equipment needs. I will phone you shortly to discuss if an
alternative instru ment could be substituted.
TekNet Electronics appreciates the opportunity to serve you.
Best Regards,
Okay, just joking. Looks like it's a come-on.
--sp
Reference: Request For Quotation - HP - Agilent 34410A
Dear Spehro,
Thank you for your recent request for quotation.
Recent strong demand for the HP - Agilent 34410A has placed it on
backorder with no firm availability dates and pricing established by
our suppliers. Accordingly, no quotation for this equipment can be
provided at this time.
immediate equipment needs. I will phone you shortly to discuss if an
alternative instru ment could be substituted.
TekNet Electronics appreciates the opportunity to serve you.
Best Regards,
Joerg
Dec 10, 2012, 12:28:40 PM12/10/12
to
warranty. What can be risky is buying these off an auction site because
then they've never gone through any refurb process and you do not know
the history.
Nico Coesel
Dec 10, 2012, 1:42:31 PM12/10/12
to
manufacturer and not an equipment dealer. But then again I always
check gear myself (brand new and used). Don't trust others with your
life :-)
One of the first big projects I was responsible for was partly
designed by my predecessor. I frowned upon putting 2 electrolytics in
series to achieve higher voltage handling but he said it would be
okay. My frown was justified. Those capacitors went up in smoke right
when the customer's 'suits' came looking how things went.
Spehro Pefhany
Dec 10, 2012, 2:50:33 PM12/10/12
to
On Mon, 10 Dec 2012 16:28:41 GMT, ni...@puntnl.niks (Nico Coesel)
wrote:
>
>This is the link:
>http://www.teknetelectronics.com/Search.asp?p_ID=20596&pDo=DETAIL
>
>At the top of the page it says 'used multimeter'.
Did it say that before? That's not exactly the same page- the price
has been removed.
wrote:
>
>This is the link:
>http://www.teknetelectronics.com/Search.asp?p_ID=20596&pDo=DETAIL
>
>At the top of the page it says 'used multimeter'.
has been removed.
Joerg
Dec 10, 2012, 2:55:36 PM12/10/12
to
we don't any of those and now even the Canadians come swooping in on
us!" :-)
I really dislike this secretive quoting game. Waiting for a 24410A quote
from Tequipment. Waiting, waiting, waiting ...
Spehro Pefhany
Dec 10, 2012, 3:11:55 PM12/10/12
to
On Mon, 10 Dec 2012 11:55:36 -0800, Joerg <inv...@invalid.invalid>
wrote:
They will charge your CC as soon as you place the order.. if it take
six weeks to ship, they're in no hurry.
wrote:
six weeks to ship, they're in no hurry.
Joerg
Dec 10, 2012, 3:09:22 PM12/10/12
to
Michael A. Terrell
Dec 10, 2012, 7:56:16 PM12/10/12
to
Nico Coesel wrote:
>
> True but you never know the history of a used multi-meter... (or any
> second hand gear). When buying used gear you need to test and check it
> thouroughly to make sure there are no hidden defects.
josephkk
Dec 11, 2012, 1:23:17 AM12/11/12
to
On Mon, 10 Dec 2012 09:28:40 -0800, Joerg <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>>> I never buy multimeters used. Too risky. In fact, it could even become
>>>>> dangerous depending on what you measure.
>>>> The one from Teknet is used.
>>>>
>>> Not that I know of. But they just responded that there's backlog so they
>>
>> This is the link:
>> http://www.teknetelectronics.com/Search.asp?p_ID=20596&pDo=DETAIL
>>
>> At the top of the page it says 'used multimeter'.
>>
>
>It's probably demo stock. That's ok as long as there is the usual
>warranty. What can be risky is buying these off an auction site because
>then they've never gone through any refurb process and you do not know
>the history.
In the areas you tend to work in, your stance is understandable. Getting
>
>>>>> I never buy multimeters used. Too risky. In fact, it could even become
>>>>> dangerous depending on what you measure.
>>>> The one from Teknet is used.
>>>>
>>> Not that I know of. But they just responded that there's backlog so they
>>
>> This is the link:
>> http://www.teknetelectronics.com/Search.asp?p_ID=20596&pDo=DETAIL
>>
>> At the top of the page it says 'used multimeter'.
>>
>
>It's probably demo stock. That's ok as long as there is the usual
>warranty. What can be risky is buying these off an auction site because
>then they've never gone through any refurb process and you do not know
>the history.
a great deal on a mm only to have to have it factory refurbished is not a
very winning strategy. Then you still have to keep it calibrated. Not
funny, fun or cheap.
?-)
Joerg
Dec 11, 2012, 1:55:46 PM12/11/12
to
Joerg wrote:
> Gents,
>
> In the market for a new bench meter, 4-1/2 digits is sufficient. To my
> surprise I saw on their web site that B&K is an American company which,
> of course, I'd gladly support. Is it true for their meters and stuff
> that they are at least engineered here? Are they good? Looking at the 2831E:
>
> http://www.bkprecision.com/products/multimeters/2831E-4-1-2-digit-true-rms-bench-digital-multimeter.html
>
> I really like VF displays, much more so than LCD.
>
So I just ordered the Fluke 8845A at Tequipment.com. That way, if it
> Gents,
>
> In the market for a new bench meter, 4-1/2 digits is sufficient. To my
> surprise I saw on their web site that B&K is an American company which,
> of course, I'd gladly support. Is it true for their meters and stuff
> that they are at least engineered here? Are they good? Looking at the 2831E:
>
> http://www.bkprecision.com/products/multimeters/2831E-4-1-2-digit-true-rms-bench-digital-multimeter.html
>
> I really like VF displays, much more so than LCD.
>
doesn't live up to my expectations I can blame John 8-)
Spehro, if you want to order one as well don't just click "Byu" on the
web site but get a quote. That lops around $100 off the price. No free
shiiping then but ground was only $18.
What I found surprising was that in their manual they say "This Meter
has shown susceptibility to radiated frequencies greater than 1 V/m from
250 to 450 MHz". I like that kind of honesty in a spec listing.
John Larkin
Dec 11, 2012, 2:38:06 PM12/11/12
to
On Tue, 11 Dec 2012 10:55:46 -0800, Joerg <inv...@invalid.invalid>
wrote:
>Joerg wrote:
>> Gents,
>>
>> In the market for a new bench meter, 4-1/2 digits is sufficient. To my
>> surprise I saw on their web site that B&K is an American company which,
>> of course, I'd gladly support. Is it true for their meters and stuff
>> that they are at least engineered here? Are they good? Looking at the 2831E:
>>
>> http://www.bkprecision.com/products/multimeters/2831E-4-1-2-digit-true-rms-bench-digital-multimeter.html
>>
>> I really like VF displays, much more so than LCD.
>>
>
>So I just ordered the Fluke 8845A at Tequipment.com. That way, if it
>doesn't live up to my expectations I can blame John 8-)
And expect no more free beer.
>
>Spehro, if you want to order one as well don't just click "Byu" on the
>web site but get a quote. That lops around $100 off the price. No free
>shiiping then but ground was only $18.
>
>What I found surprising was that in their manual they say "This Meter
>has shown susceptibility to radiated frequencies greater than 1 V/m from
>250 to 450 MHz". I like that kind of honesty in a spec listing.
Our thermocouple gadgets tend to have narrowband sensitivities in the
150-300 MHz range, which I suspect is wire/trace resonances driving
opamp junctions. In an instrument with a plastic case, and nv
resolution, EMI suceptability must be a real challenge.
Just tried my 8845A: 3 foot banana leads connected to an inductor,
measuring DC on the lowest range. I'm seeing well under 1 uv of zero
shift when I grab the test leads here and there. You know my EMI
environment. Once the steel alligator clip temperatures settle out, it
reads about +300 nv.
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
Precision electronic instrumentation
Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators
Custom laser drivers and controllers
wrote:
>Joerg wrote:
>> Gents,
>>
>> In the market for a new bench meter, 4-1/2 digits is sufficient. To my
>> surprise I saw on their web site that B&K is an American company which,
>> of course, I'd gladly support. Is it true for their meters and stuff
>> that they are at least engineered here? Are they good? Looking at the 2831E:
>>
>> http://www.bkprecision.com/products/multimeters/2831E-4-1-2-digit-true-rms-bench-digital-multimeter.html
>>
>> I really like VF displays, much more so than LCD.
>>
>
>So I just ordered the Fluke 8845A at Tequipment.com. That way, if it
>doesn't live up to my expectations I can blame John 8-)
>
>Spehro, if you want to order one as well don't just click "Byu" on the
>web site but get a quote. That lops around $100 off the price. No free
>shiiping then but ground was only $18.
>
>What I found surprising was that in their manual they say "This Meter
>has shown susceptibility to radiated frequencies greater than 1 V/m from
>250 to 450 MHz". I like that kind of honesty in a spec listing.
150-300 MHz range, which I suspect is wire/trace resonances driving
opamp junctions. In an instrument with a plastic case, and nv
resolution, EMI suceptability must be a real challenge.
Just tried my 8845A: 3 foot banana leads connected to an inductor,
measuring DC on the lowest range. I'm seeing well under 1 uv of zero
shift when I grab the test leads here and there. You know my EMI
environment. Once the steel alligator clip temperatures settle out, it
reads about +300 nv.
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com
Precision electronic instrumentation
Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators
Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links
VME thermocouple, LVDT, synchro acquisition and simulation
Joerg
Dec 11, 2012, 3:02:02 PM12/11/12
to
John Larkin wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Dec 2012 10:55:46 -0800, Joerg <inv...@invalid.invalid>
> wrote:
>
[...]
> On Tue, 11 Dec 2012 10:55:46 -0800, Joerg <inv...@invalid.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> Spehro, if you want to order one as well don't just click "Byu" on the
>> web site but get a quote. That lops around $100 off the price. No free
>> shiiping then but ground was only $18.
>>
>> What I found surprising was that in their manual they say "This Meter
>> has shown susceptibility to radiated frequencies greater than 1 V/m from
>> 250 to 450 MHz". I like that kind of honesty in a spec listing.
>
> Our thermocouple gadgets tend to have narrowband sensitivities in the
> 150-300 MHz range, which I suspect is wire/trace resonances driving
> opamp junctions. In an instrument with a plastic case, and nv
> resolution, EMI suceptability must be a real challenge.
>
> Just tried my 8845A: 3 foot banana leads connected to an inductor,
> measuring DC on the lowest range. I'm seeing well under 1 uv of zero
> shift when I grab the test leads here and there. You know my EMI
> environment. Once the steel alligator clip temperatures settle out, it
> reads about +300 nv.
>
2mi away but not quite as powerful as your Sutro Tower. However ...
aircraft calling in final approach for our local runway plus "big iron"
freighters calling into Mather Field almost over the building. Steel
roof though.
What made me look around for a while longer was that this meter has
steampunk PC connectivity, RS232. But I'll get that going, and it has
LAN if needed. Other more modern meters couldn't be shipped by Dec-31
and for the usual reasons that didn't work. Some blew me away, they even
had a built-in web server. Pretty soon toasters will have a web presence.
Spehro Pefhany
Dec 11, 2012, 3:57:12 PM12/11/12
to
On Tue, 11 Dec 2012 12:02:02 -0800, Joerg <inv...@invalid.invalid>
wrote:
> Some blew me away, they even
>had a built-in web server. Pretty soon toasters will have a web presence.
A web server is a requirement for LXI compliance.
wrote:
> Some blew me away, they even
>had a built-in web server. Pretty soon toasters will have a web presence.
Joerg
Dec 11, 2012, 4:03:56 PM12/11/12
to
about SCPI anyhow.
Tauno Voipio
Dec 11, 2012, 4:04:03 PM12/11/12
to
power, some tens of watts. Nothing compared to a broadcast transmitter.
--
Tauno Voipio
Joerg
Dec 11, 2012, 4:10:53 PM12/11/12
to
only 10 meters ...
JW
Dec 12, 2012, 4:56:05 AM12/12/12
to
On Mon, 10 Dec 2012 07:49:53 -0800 Joerg <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote
in Message id: <aimel1...@mid.individual.net>:
[...]
>Not that I know of. But they just responded that there's backlog so they
>can't sell me one anyhow. So, on to Fluke or some other company then I
>guess.
Just got this in my inbox. I've never used one so I can't comment on the
unit, but an intro price of $595 till the end of December.
http://www.keithley.com/products/dcac/dmm/broadpurpose/?mn=2110-120-GPIB
in Message id: <aimel1...@mid.individual.net>:
[...]
>Not that I know of. But they just responded that there's backlog so they
>can't sell me one anyhow. So, on to Fluke or some other company then I
>guess.
unit, but an intro price of $595 till the end of December.
http://www.keithley.com/products/dcac/dmm/broadpurpose/?mn=2110-120-GPIB
Joerg
Dec 12, 2012, 10:45:09 AM12/12/12
to
too well. Yesterday I ordered a 6-1/2 digit meter (the 8845A) from Fluke
for $931.50. The design seems to be about 6-7 years old but that also
means that the early bugs are out. I was a bit surprised that despite
the design age it can be operated via a LAN. Not that I plan to do that
a lot but it's kind of nice.
Joerg
Dec 17, 2012, 4:07:15 PM12/17/12
to
ordering but ... ok). Today I checked and now the ship date is Dec-28.
No email note, nothing. Inquired ... "Oh, it's on backorder". Hurumph.
Grumble.
DaveC
Dec 19, 2012, 8:13:47 PM12/19/12
to
>
http://www.storeinfinity.com/vichy-vc8145-dmm-digital-bench-top-multimeter-
met
> er-pc.html
Crikey! Are T&M manufacturers STILL using RS232 connectivity? OK, many people
still have investment in '232 Data Aq stuff, but WHEN will we transition to
USB? When it's obsolete?
Sheesh...
http://www.storeinfinity.com/vichy-vc8145-dmm-digital-bench-top-multimeter-
met
> er-pc.html
Crikey! Are T&M manufacturers STILL using RS232 connectivity? OK, many people
still have investment in '232 Data Aq stuff, but WHEN will we transition to
USB? When it's obsolete?
Sheesh...
k...@att.bizzz
Dec 19, 2012, 8:15:14 PM12/19/12
to
DaveC
Dec 19, 2012, 8:22:01 PM12/19/12
to
> I really dislike this secretive quoting game. Waiting for a 24410A quote
> from Tequipment. Waiting, waiting, waiting ...
I suspect the primary reason is to get you on their sales mailing / call list
> from Tequipment. Waiting, waiting, waiting ...
for future "cold" calls. Actually finding you the equip you are asking about
is secondary.
This is SO last-century customer service...
DaveC
Dec 19, 2012, 8:30:46 PM12/19/12
to
> Well, Sunday it said ship date is Dec-14 (which was three days after
> ordering but ... ok). Today I checked and now the ship date is Dec-28.
> No email note, nothing. Inquired ... "Oh, it's on backorder". Hurumph.
> Grumble.
"Get 'em on the hook. Customer service second..."
> ordering but ... ok). Today I checked and now the ship date is Dec-28.
> No email note, nothing. Inquired ... "Oh, it's on backorder". Hurumph.
> Grumble.
SO last-century...
OK, end of grumbling for today.
DaveC
Dec 19, 2012, 8:31:29 PM12/19/12
to
> When USB is as simple to bit-bang.
Bit-banging a DMM?
k...@att.bizzz
Dec 19, 2012, 11:12:29 PM12/19/12
to
On Wed, 19 Dec 2012 17:31:29 -0800, DaveC <inv...@invalid.net> wrote:
>> When USB is as simple to bit-bang.
>
>Bit-banging a DMM?
Why not?
>> When USB is as simple to bit-bang.
>
>Bit-banging a DMM?
DaveC
Dec 20, 2012, 12:36:51 AM12/20/12
to
>> Bit-banging a DMM?
>
> Why not?
To what end?
>
> Why not?
Extra credit for examples.
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