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Turbo Royer/Baxandall in boost configuration
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bitrex
Sep 20, 2021, 5:45:16 PM9/20/21
to
Is it possible to take your standard Baxandall and tap the capacitor,
take an aux winding off the secondary and feed a somewhat higher DC
voltage to the cap (through the usual two-diode supply handoff
arrangement), and use it to feed the gate drive to the transistors as
well, which would be clocked rather than self-oscillating.
The goal would be to have a quiet step-up converter that could do say 5
to ~150 in one step, or maybe with a single multiplier stage. That seems
hard to do with anything off the shelf as compact pulse transformers
with the appropriate turns ratio don't seem to be really available, you
get into CFL-type transformers whose ratios are too large, but there
might be something appropriate with a third winding to bootstrap the
primary swing
take an aux winding off the secondary and feed a somewhat higher DC
voltage to the cap (through the usual two-diode supply handoff
arrangement), and use it to feed the gate drive to the transistors as
well, which would be clocked rather than self-oscillating.
The goal would be to have a quiet step-up converter that could do say 5
to ~150 in one step, or maybe with a single multiplier stage. That seems
hard to do with anything off the shelf as compact pulse transformers
with the appropriate turns ratio don't seem to be really available, you
get into CFL-type transformers whose ratios are too large, but there
might be something appropriate with a third winding to bootstrap the
primary swing
bitrex
Sep 20, 2021, 5:53:07 PM9/20/21
to
something like 47u to 4.7m is annoying to do by hand on some common
compact ferrite toroid like an FT50-43, and multiple multiplier stages
start to suck efficiency pretty quickly
Lasse Langwadt Christensen
Sep 20, 2021, 6:50:05 PM9/20/21
to
https://dk.rs-online.com/web/p/transformer-switch-mode-stromforsyning-smps/4185470/
bitrex
Sep 20, 2021, 6:56:09 PM9/20/21
to
bitrex
Sep 20, 2021, 7:05:38 PM9/20/21
to
On 9/20/2021 6:50 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
a FT50-43 in a few minutes. Efficiency is bad, almost 1/2 watt in the
base resistor :(((
<https://imgur.com/a/rQofaB4>
<Version 4
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John Larkin
Sep 20, 2021, 7:06:25 PM9/20/21
to
--
If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
Francis Bacon
Anthony William Sloman
Sep 20, 2021, 8:49:10 PM9/20/21
to
On Tuesday, September 21, 2021 at 7:53:07 AM UTC+10, bitrex wrote:
> On 9/20/2021 5:45 PM, bitrex wrote:
> > The goal would be to have a quiet step-up converter that could do say 5
> > to ~150 in one step, or maybe with a single multiplier stage. That seems
> > hard to do with anything off the shelf as compact pulse transformers
> > with the appropriate turns ratio don't seem to be really available, you
> > get into CFL-type transformers whose ratios are too large, but there
> > might be something appropriate with a third winding to bootstrap the
> > primary swing.
> On 9/20/2021 5:45 PM, bitrex wrote:
> > The goal would be to have a quiet step-up converter that could do say 5
> > to ~150 in one step, or maybe with a single multiplier stage. That seems
> > hard to do with anything off the shelf as compact pulse transformers
> > with the appropriate turns ratio don't seem to be really available, you
> > get into CFL-type transformers whose ratios are too large, but there
> > might be something appropriate with a third winding to bootstrap the
>
> Even if I really wanted to roll my own transformers the require ratio of
> something like 47u to 4.7m is annoying to do by hand on some common
> compact ferrite toroid like an FT50-43, and multiple multiplier stages
> start to suck efficiency pretty quickly.
> Even if I really wanted to roll my own transformers the require ratio of
> something like 47u to 4.7m is annoying to do by hand on some common
> compact ferrite toroid like an FT50-43, and multiple multiplier stages
Buy yourself a simple winding machine with a turns-counter. They were pretty cheap when I last looked.
Or ask Winfield Hill if he knows of a small coil-winding shop near you. Academics are into one-offs for specific gear for specific experiments.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
sea moss
Sep 20, 2021, 8:59:25 PM9/20/21
to
But then I thought, maybe the active-clamp forward would work for you too. Try one of the transformers Lasse recommended. I cannot immediately see anything wrong with doing that... the active-clamp forward is nice since there is no reset winding needed, and the clamp capacitor soaks up the leakage energy making it one of the quieter isolated topologies.
But like I said I am new to the topology so I cannot tell you if there are any subtleties to be careful with. Does anyone here have any insight into the active-clamp forward topology that I can't find in all the app notes? (not trying to hijack this thread)
Anthony William Sloman
Sep 20, 2021, 9:04:59 PM9/20/21
to
That doesn't mean that it won't work, and I suppose it could solve your problem. But all the waveforms are horribly spikey. Not attractive.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
bitrex
Sep 20, 2021, 10:23:41 PM9/20/21
to
boostrapped in that way, forcing it to swing more than 2x the "real" supply.
> That doesn't mean that it won't work, and I suppose it could solve your problem. But all the waveforms are horribly spikey. Not attractive.
>
dead time and PWM the center-tap inductor and all that cool stuff, and I
have a device in mind to do that with. Cost-effective solution for the
transformer is a question, though.
bitrex
Sep 20, 2021, 11:00:29 PM9/20/21
to
On 9/20/2021 7:06 PM, John Larkin wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 17:45:12 -0400, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:
>
>> Is it possible to take your standard Baxandall and tap the capacitor,
>> take an aux winding off the secondary and feed a somewhat higher DC
>> voltage to the cap (through the usual two-diode supply handoff
>> arrangement), and use it to feed the gate drive to the transistors as
>> well, which would be clocked rather than self-oscillating.
>>
>> The goal would be to have a quiet step-up converter that could do say 5
>> to ~150 in one step, or maybe with a single multiplier stage. That seems
>> hard to do with anything off the shelf as compact pulse transformers
>> with the appropriate turns ratio don't seem to be really available, you
>> get into CFL-type transformers whose ratios are too large, but there
>> might be something appropriate with a third winding to bootstrap the
>> primary swing
>
> Lotta words. Got a sketch?
>
I don't think the idea is worth sketching up, yes you can boostrap a
> On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 17:45:12 -0400, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:
>
>> Is it possible to take your standard Baxandall and tap the capacitor,
>> take an aux winding off the secondary and feed a somewhat higher DC
>> voltage to the cap (through the usual two-diode supply handoff
>> arrangement), and use it to feed the gate drive to the transistors as
>> well, which would be clocked rather than self-oscillating.
>>
>> The goal would be to have a quiet step-up converter that could do say 5
>> to ~150 in one step, or maybe with a single multiplier stage. That seems
>> hard to do with anything off the shelf as compact pulse transformers
>> with the appropriate turns ratio don't seem to be really available, you
>> get into CFL-type transformers whose ratios are too large, but there
>> might be something appropriate with a third winding to bootstrap the
>> primary swing
>
> Lotta words. Got a sketch?
>
resonant converter off its own output in various ways and get it to
swing harder into the primary. Unfortunately it looks to me like this
always has the downside of ruining the "resonant" part, the resonant
frequency isn't well-defined anymore and it runs more like a blocking
oscillator.
bitrex
Sep 20, 2021, 11:52:33 PM9/20/21
to
On 9/20/2021 9:04 PM, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
revolting I guess I forgot to save it
Jan Panteltje
Sep 21, 2021, 2:33:49 AM9/21/21
to
On a sunny day (Mon, 20 Sep 2021 17:45:12 -0400) it happened bitrex
<us...@example.net> wrote in <Jh72J.114246$Kv2....@fx47.iad>:
High ratio transformers are easy with UI or E cores
I wind the small ones with thin seundary on the dremel...
Just count...
http://panteltje.com/pub/home_made_1_to_33_hv_transformer_img_3096.jpg
12V DC to approx 440 Vpp 20 to 44 kHz:
http://panteltje.com/pub/ultrasonic_antifouling_bigger_transformer_IMG_5179.JPG
http://panteltje.com/pub/ultrasonic_anti_fouling_test_board_IMG_5135.JPG
Not to mention all the TV high voltage flyback stuff..
and what a little BC107 or so can do:
http://panteltje.com/pub/new_transformer_test_setup_img_3153.jpg
Have no fear of transformers....
http://panteltje.com/pub/PMT_HV_supply_with_regulator_img_3175.jpg
http://panteltje.com/pub/PMT_HV_supply_componet_side_img_3180.jpg
This uses a standard 1:10 audio? transformer flyback to power a GMtube:
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/gm_pic2/
seems quiet.... Even has GPS
so many projects with transformers...
<us...@example.net> wrote in <Jh72J.114246$Kv2....@fx47.iad>:
I wind the small ones with thin seundary on the dremel...
Just count...
http://panteltje.com/pub/home_made_1_to_33_hv_transformer_img_3096.jpg
12V DC to approx 440 Vpp 20 to 44 kHz:
http://panteltje.com/pub/ultrasonic_antifouling_bigger_transformer_IMG_5179.JPG
http://panteltje.com/pub/ultrasonic_anti_fouling_test_board_IMG_5135.JPG
Not to mention all the TV high voltage flyback stuff..
and what a little BC107 or so can do:
http://panteltje.com/pub/new_transformer_test_setup_img_3153.jpg
Have no fear of transformers....
http://panteltje.com/pub/PMT_HV_supply_with_regulator_img_3175.jpg
http://panteltje.com/pub/PMT_HV_supply_componet_side_img_3180.jpg
This uses a standard 1:10 audio? transformer flyback to power a GMtube:
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/gm_pic2/
seems quiet.... Even has GPS
so many projects with transformers...
bitrex
Sep 21, 2021, 2:55:23 AM9/21/21
to
with more. Instead of trying to bootstrap it from the secondary, speed
the whole thing up to several hundred kHz, to bring the required primary
inductance down. Then use an aux winding to apply negative feedback to
the supply rail to whip that sine into shape:
<https://imgur.com/a/MgBWVDq>
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TEXT -632 472 Left 2 !.tran 5m startup uic
TEXT -712 -360 Left 2 !K L1 L2 L3 L4 0.99
Jan Panteltje
Sep 21, 2021, 4:52:23 AM9/21/21
to
On a sunny day (Tue, 21 Sep 2021 02:55:18 -0400) it happened bitrex
<us...@example.net> wrote in <rlf2J.13646$d82....@fx21.iad>:
I see it does not boost the supply, L1 is always on the +5,
but raises the bias current to the transistor base via L3 R3 perhaps when C6 goes above that +5.
No sure that is a good idea,
The other secundary is just a bridge rectifier,
sort of a double Villard circuit perhaps.
Peculiar.
As to the tuned one transistor sine wave converter,
used that many times in the old days, for example for EPROM programmer
http://panteltje.com/pub/tuned_eprom_programmer_voltage_generator.gif
from this:
http://panteltje.com/pub/8052AH_BASIC_computer/8052AH_BASIC_computer_inside2_img_1757.jpg
thing still works..
You can make it any frequency you want depending on the transistor, diode and core of course.
But all those RF carriers.....
If you have a Microchip PIC available some have a build in PWM generator and a comparator that works directly on the PWM
so you can have cycle by cycle current limit etc etc.
http://panteltje.com/pub/power_pic/power_pic_synchronous_rectifier_working_img_0965.jpg
you can see the small current transformer at the bottom in red wire from the drain of the MOSFET.
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/pwr_pic/
been in use now since 2008 12 hours a day...
There is more...
Lots of stuff on ebay, have a 5V to 300 kV converter (more like 30kV in reality)
and
http://panteltje.com/pub/inductive_coupling_real_power_300Vpp_IMG_6092.JPG
with those Chinese induction things:
http://panteltje.com/pub/crucible_with_molten_solder_IMG_5439.JPG
later...
<us...@example.net> wrote in <rlf2J.13646$d82....@fx21.iad>:
but raises the bias current to the transistor base via L3 R3 perhaps when C6 goes above that +5.
No sure that is a good idea,
The other secundary is just a bridge rectifier,
sort of a double Villard circuit perhaps.
Peculiar.
As to the tuned one transistor sine wave converter,
used that many times in the old days, for example for EPROM programmer
http://panteltje.com/pub/tuned_eprom_programmer_voltage_generator.gif
from this:
http://panteltje.com/pub/8052AH_BASIC_computer/8052AH_BASIC_computer_inside2_img_1757.jpg
thing still works..
You can make it any frequency you want depending on the transistor, diode and core of course.
But all those RF carriers.....
If you have a Microchip PIC available some have a build in PWM generator and a comparator that works directly on the PWM
so you can have cycle by cycle current limit etc etc.
http://panteltje.com/pub/power_pic/power_pic_synchronous_rectifier_working_img_0965.jpg
you can see the small current transformer at the bottom in red wire from the drain of the MOSFET.
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/pwr_pic/
been in use now since 2008 12 hours a day...
There is more...
Lots of stuff on ebay, have a 5V to 300 kV converter (more like 30kV in reality)
and
http://panteltje.com/pub/inductive_coupling_real_power_300Vpp_IMG_6092.JPG
with those Chinese induction things:
http://panteltje.com/pub/crucible_with_molten_solder_IMG_5439.JPG
later...
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com
Sep 21, 2021, 11:59:23 AM9/21/21
to
easily turn a 2-minute 50-cent part into 1000x those numbers.
--
Father Brown's figure remained quite dark and still;
but in that instant he had lost his head. His head was
always most valuable when he had lost it.
legg
Sep 21, 2021, 12:02:05 PM9/21/21
to
On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 17:59:22 -0700 (PDT), sea moss
<danlu...@gmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
>But then I thought, maybe the active-clamp forward would work for you too. Try one of the transformers Lasse recommended. I cannot immediately see anything wrong with doing that... the active-clamp forward is nice since there is no reset winding needed, and the clamp capacitor soaks up the leakage energy making it one of the quieter isolated topologies.
>
>But like I said I am new to the topology so I cannot tell you if there are any subtleties to be careful with. Does anyone here have any insight into the active-clamp forward topology that I can't find in all the app notes? (not trying to hijack this thread)
The active clamp isn't intended to 'absorb' leakage energy, but to
>
>But like I said I am new to the topology so I cannot tell you if there are any subtleties to be careful with. Does anyone here have any insight into the active-clamp forward topology that I can't find in all the app notes? (not trying to hijack this thread)
recycle it. This is achieved if there's an energy path to the load
during the clamping interval, as in a flyback circuit. In doing so,
magnetizing energy can not only reset core flux, but reverse it, so
that double core flux excursions are possible without core saturation.
Core flux excursions that pass through zero are less lossy, in
general.
The same thing is possible with a forward converter, if synchronous
rectification is present on the output. If the output rectifier is
a self-driven or other kind of synchronous circuit, you can recover
leakage energy to the load simply by adding a low power inductor
(L~= to the main output choke). This also results in output ripple
current cancelation.
With reversing magnetizing current, you're set up for zero-voltage
(or at least reduced voltage) switching, at a reduced switching
loss. Under certain conditions, switch current can be negative
at turn-on, depending on the magnitude of magnetizing current.
In the 90s this was 'complicated' by lack of controller and
driver circuitry - though the simple methods developed were in
some ways superior to the integrated options available now.
AD/LTC offer prepackaged models and simulations that run in
LTspice ( eg ADP1074 , LT3765 ) which control both active
clamp and synchronous rectifiers.
RL
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com
Sep 21, 2021, 12:16:41 PM9/21/21
to
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wqygdxrcr2egxsv/AGC_Sine_Osc.jpg?raw-1
The output amplitude is very stable with time and temperature. The
voltage at the collector is reliably 2xV+ p-p.
I invented this when I was a kid, still in college. It was used in the
Boresight Alignment Kit for the C5A.
ke...@kjwdesigns.com
Sep 21, 2021, 1:05:08 PM9/21/21
to
...
That configuration is usually known as a Reinartz oscillator. It has been commonly used as a self-oscillating mixer in transistor radios since the mid nineteen-fifties.
In the common implementation the resonant tank is on the secondary rather than the collector to give some isolation from variation of transistor parameters and improve stability.
https://www.electronics-notes.com/images/transistor-radio-self-oscillating-mixer-ferrite-rod-antenna.png
kw
> Here is a sine oscillator.
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/wqygdxrcr2egxsv/AGC_Sine_Osc.jpg?raw-1
>
> The output amplitude is very stable with time and temperature. The
> voltage at the collector is reliably 2xV+ p-p.
>
> I invented this when I was a kid, still in college. It was used in the
> Boresight Alignment Kit for the C5A.
>...
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/wqygdxrcr2egxsv/AGC_Sine_Osc.jpg?raw-1
>
> The output amplitude is very stable with time and temperature. The
> voltage at the collector is reliably 2xV+ p-p.
>
> I invented this when I was a kid, still in college. It was used in the
> Boresight Alignment Kit for the C5A.
That configuration is usually known as a Reinartz oscillator. It has been commonly used as a self-oscillating mixer in transistor radios since the mid nineteen-fifties.
In the common implementation the resonant tank is on the secondary rather than the collector to give some isolation from variation of transistor parameters and improve stability.
https://www.electronics-notes.com/images/transistor-radio-self-oscillating-mixer-ferrite-rod-antenna.png
kw
John Larkin
Sep 21, 2021, 1:31:52 PM9/21/21
to
AGC system that precisely controls oscillation amplitude.
I used it as the excitation for a Talyvel arc-second-resolution
inclinometer, basically an LVDT on a pendulum.
It was fun to work with. I tested it on a steel plate sitting on a
55-gallon drum full of rocks. I could see people walking around and
flexing the concrete slab building.
Hey, they still make them!
https://scigate.com.sg/products/43-taylor-hobson/2661-electronic-levels-clinometers?pdt=true
bitrex
Sep 21, 2021, 2:01:34 PM9/21/21
to
could wind by hand, into a bridge doubler. I use 4.7uH for the primary,
220u for the secondary, 1u for the feedback, 0.47u for the tank cap, 680
ohms and 2.2u for the AGC RC.
Probably any 30 volt 3 amp NPN would work OK
The frequency of oscillation is about 100kHz and efficiency looks to be
70-something percent, I don't think you could hope for much more from
this topology in a high step-up ratio arrangement, as the base
transistor burns a fair amount of power to give the Q sufficient drive.
I don't think Schottky diodes are really needed here but we got 'em.
(make sure "alternate solver" is turned on, the normal solver hates
these type of circuits)
Version 4
SHEET 1 1148 680
WIRE 112 -752 -416 -752
WIRE -416 -624 -416 -752
WIRE -48 -624 -416 -624
WIRE 480 -624 320 -624
WIRE 784 -624 544 -624
WIRE 912 -624 784 -624
WIRE 1056 -624 912 -624
WIRE -672 -576 -672 -624
WIRE 400 -528 224 -528
WIRE 480 -528 400 -528
WIRE 784 -528 784 -624
WIRE 784 -528 544 -528
WIRE 224 -480 224 -528
WIRE 784 -464 784 -528
WIRE -672 -448 -672 -496
WIRE 912 -400 912 -624
WIRE 1056 -368 1056 -624
WIRE -48 -352 -48 -624
WIRE 112 -336 112 -752
WIRE 224 -336 224 -400
WIRE 320 -336 320 -624
WIRE 320 -336 224 -336
WIRE 784 -336 784 -400
WIRE 784 -336 320 -336
WIRE 784 -272 784 -336
WIRE 400 -208 400 -528
WIRE 480 -208 400 -208
WIRE 608 -208 544 -208
WIRE -416 -176 -416 -624
WIRE 320 -112 320 -336
WIRE 480 -112 320 -112
WIRE 608 -112 608 -208
WIRE 608 -112 544 -112
WIRE 784 -112 784 -208
WIRE 784 -112 608 -112
WIRE 912 -112 912 -336
WIRE 912 -112 784 -112
WIRE 1056 -112 1056 -288
WIRE 1056 -112 912 -112
WIRE -48 -96 -48 -272
WIRE -48 -96 -288 -96
WIRE 112 -96 112 -272
WIRE 112 -96 -48 -96
WIRE 784 -80 784 -112
WIRE 784 -64 784 -80
WIRE -288 0 -288 -96
WIRE 784 32 784 0
WIRE -416 48 -416 -96
WIRE -352 48 -416 48
WIRE -416 160 -416 48
WIRE -288 160 -288 96
WIRE -416 288 -416 224
WIRE -288 288 -288 240
FLAG -496 -752 +5
IOPIN -496 -752 In
FLAG -288 288 0
FLAG -672 -448 0
FLAG -672 -624 +5
IOPIN -672 -624 Out
FLAG 784 32 0
FLAG -416 288 0
SYMBOL ind2 -32 -368 M0
WINDOW 3 -49 82 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName L1
SYMATTR Value 4.7µ
SYMBOL ind2 240 -496 M0
SYMATTR InstName L1
SYMATTR Value 4.7µ
SYMATTR InstName L2
SYMATTR Value 220µ
SYMBOL ind2 -304 256 M180
WINDOW 0 36 80 Left 2
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName L3
SYMATTR Value 1µ
SYMBOL npn -352 0 R0
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName L3
SYMATTR Value 1µ
SYMATTR InstName Q1
SYMATTR Value 2SCR553P
SYMBOL cap 128 -272 R180
WINDOW 0 24 56 Left 2
WINDOW 3 -86 38 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName C1
SYMATTR Value 0.47µ
SYMBOL res -400 -80 R180
SYMATTR Value 2SCR553P
SYMBOL cap 128 -272 R180
WINDOW 0 24 56 Left 2
WINDOW 3 -86 38 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName C1
SYMATTR Value 0.47µ
WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName R3
SYMATTR Value 680
SYMBOL cap -400 224 R180
SYMATTR Value 680
WINDOW 0 24 56 Left 2
WINDOW 3 24 8 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName C2
SYMATTR Value 2.2µ
SYMBOL voltage -672 -592 R0
WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0
WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0
SYMATTR InstName V1
SYMATTR Value 5
SYMBOL cap 768 -272 R0
WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0
SYMATTR InstName V1
SYMATTR Value 5
SYMATTR InstName C3
SYMATTR Value 0.1µ
SYMBOL res 768 -96 R0
SYMATTR Value 0.1µ
SYMATTR InstName R1
SYMATTR Value 1Meg
SYMBOL current 1056 -368 R0
SYMATTR Value 1Meg
WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0
WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0
SYMATTR InstName I1
SYMATTR Value 0.005
SYMBOL cap 768 -464 R0
WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0
SYMATTR InstName I1
SYMATTR Value 0.005
SYMATTR InstName C4
SYMATTR Value 0.1µ
SYMBOL cap 896 -400 R0
SYMATTR Value 0.1µ
SYMATTR InstName C5
SYMATTR Value 0.47µ
SYMBOL schottky 544 -128 R90
SYMATTR Value 0.47µ
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName D4
SYMATTR Value RB168L150
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName D4
SYMATTR Description Diode
SYMATTR Type diode
SYMBOL schottky 544 -224 R90
SYMATTR Type diode
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName D1
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR Value RB168L150
SYMATTR Description Diode
SYMATTR Type diode
SYMBOL schottky 480 -608 R270
SYMATTR Type diode
WINDOW 0 32 32 VTop 2
WINDOW 3 0 32 VBottom 2
SYMATTR InstName D2
SYMATTR Value RB168L150
WINDOW 3 0 32 VBottom 2
SYMATTR InstName D2
SYMATTR Description Diode
SYMATTR Type diode
SYMBOL schottky 480 -512 R270
SYMATTR Type diode
WINDOW 0 32 32 VTop 2
WINDOW 3 0 32 VBottom 2
SYMATTR InstName D3
WINDOW 3 0 32 VBottom 2
SYMATTR Value RB168L150
SYMATTR Description Diode
SYMATTR Type diode
TEXT -816 -328 Left 2 !.tran 10m startup uic
SYMATTR Type diode
TEXT -792 -360 Left 2 !K L1 L2 L3 0.99
bitrex
Sep 21, 2021, 2:03:06 PM9/21/21
to
bitrex
Sep 21, 2021, 2:06:33 PM9/21/21
to
toroid in a couple minutes, and you have a girlfriend that enjoys
knitting, then you have new employee
bitrex
Sep 21, 2021, 2:09:22 PM9/21/21
to
relationship-friendly
Joe Gwinn
Sep 21, 2021, 3:16:03 PM9/21/21
to
On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 10:31:44 -0700, John Larkin
<jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 10:05:03 -0700 (PDT), "ke...@kjwdesigns.com"
><ke...@kjwdesigns.com> wrote:
>
>>...
>>> Here is a sine oscillator.
>>>
>>> <https://www.dropbox.com/s/wqygdxrcr2egxsv/AGC_Sine_Osc.jpg?raw-1 >
>>>
>>> The output amplitude is very stable with time and temperature. The
>>> voltage at the collector is reliably 2xV+ p-p.
>>>
>>> I invented this when I was a kid, still in college. It was used in the
>>> Boresight Alignment Kit for the C5A.
>>>...
It sort-of reminds me of the oscillator in the original touch-tone
<jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 10:05:03 -0700 (PDT), "ke...@kjwdesigns.com"
><ke...@kjwdesigns.com> wrote:
>
>>...
>>> Here is a sine oscillator.
>>>
>>> <https://www.dropbox.com/s/wqygdxrcr2egxsv/AGC_Sine_Osc.jpg?raw-1 >
>>>
>>> The output amplitude is very stable with time and temperature. The
>>> voltage at the collector is reliably 2xV+ p-p.
>>>
>>> I invented this when I was a kid, still in college. It was used in the
>>> Boresight Alignment Kit for the C5A.
>>>...
dial pad, although the AGC was a pair of silicon diodes in
anti-parallel across a winding somewhere. The circuit had power gain,
but no voltage gain, as I recall. Hmm. I think the feedback path was
from emitter back to base of a single germanium transistor, biased
using the drop across a silicon diode.
I have that circuit diagram somewhere. I think it was published in
the BSTJ.
>>That configuration is usually known as a Reinartz oscillator. It has been commonly used as a self-oscillating mixer in transistor radios since the mid nineteen-fifties.
>>
>>In the common implementation the resonant tank is on the secondary rather than the collector to give some isolation from variation of transistor parameters and improve stability.
>>
>>
>>kw
>
>My circuit is clearly different. It's way simpler and has a built-in
>AGC system that precisely controls oscillation amplitude.
>
>I used it as the excitation for a Talyvel arc-second-resolution
>inclinometer, basically an LVDT on a pendulum.
>
>It was fun to work with. I tested it on a steel plate sitting on a
>55-gallon drum full of rocks. I could see people walking around and
>flexing the concrete slab building.
>
>Hey, they still make them!
>
>.<https://scigate.com.sg/products/43-taylor-hobson/2661-electronic-levels-clinometers?pdt=true>
>>kw
>
>My circuit is clearly different. It's way simpler and has a built-in
>AGC system that precisely controls oscillation amplitude.
>
>I used it as the excitation for a Talyvel arc-second-resolution
>inclinometer, basically an LVDT on a pendulum.
>
>It was fun to work with. I tested it on a steel plate sitting on a
>55-gallon drum full of rocks. I could see people walking around and
>flexing the concrete slab building.
>
>Hey, they still make them!
>
I think that they are optical now, versus ~LVDT.
The original economic niche in machine shops has been taken over by
optical autocollimators. But there are still big things like bridges.
.<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autocollimator>
Joe Gwinn
Klaus Kragelund
Sep 21, 2021, 3:51:09 PM9/21/21
to
With 5V it's easy to drive, with high frequency the number of turns will be low. Increase efficiency by splitting the winding, maybe add external inductor for resonant LLC operation
Drive it from a microcontroller with 50 duty to avoid output inductor or do a phase shifted Halfbridge to be able to regulate the voltage if needed
--
Klaus
John Larkin
Sep 21, 2021, 4:00:11 PM9/21/21
to
identify/strip/terminate the leads. It doesn't take many turns or
windings to get nasty.
(Mo enjoys knitting, and has made pilgrimages to upstate California
and Ireland to meet sheep and get special wool. Turns out there is a
famous sheep-shearer in our neighborhood.)
Here's a home-made transmission-line transformer, under 1 ns rise
time. The connectors are surface-mount and the windings are a Digikey
stock connectorized coax jumper. It takes a couple minutes to assemble
on a board.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ievtck0gwv1tzd6/TX_1.jpg?raw=1
And this is a heat-sunk air core inductor, wound on a Sharpie pen.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/o2hz6oi08agzdy8/T850_Inductor.JPG?raw=1
John Larkin
Sep 21, 2021, 4:02:03 PM9/21/21
to
of fun stuff with them.
John Larkin
Sep 21, 2021, 4:07:24 PM9/21/21
to
On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 15:15:52 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joeg...@comcast.net>
amplitude control.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/br6namqyxas1f02/Bell_DTMF.jpg?dl=0
>
>
>>>That configuration is usually known as a Reinartz oscillator. It has been commonly used as a self-oscillating mixer in transistor radios since the mid nineteen-fifties.
>>>
>>>In the common implementation the resonant tank is on the secondary rather than the collector to give some isolation from variation of transistor parameters and improve stability.
>>>
>>>.<https://www.electronics-notes.com/images/transistor-radio-self-oscillating-mixer-ferrite-rod-antenna.png>
>>>
>>>kw
>>
>>My circuit is clearly different. It's way simpler and has a built-in
>>AGC system that precisely controls oscillation amplitude.
>>
>>I used it as the excitation for a Talyvel arc-second-resolution
>>inclinometer, basically an LVDT on a pendulum.
>>
>>It was fun to work with. I tested it on a steel plate sitting on a
>>55-gallon drum full of rocks. I could see people walking around and
>>flexing the concrete slab building.
>>
>>Hey, they still make them!
>>
>>.<https://scigate.com.sg/products/43-taylor-hobson/2661-electronic-levels-clinometers?pdt=true>
>
>I think that they are optical now, versus ~LVDT.
>
>The original economic niche in machine shops has been taken over by
>optical autocollimators. But there are still big things like bridges.
>
>.<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autocollimator>
>
>
>Joe Gwinn
wrote:
>On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 10:31:44 -0700, John Larkin
><jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 10:05:03 -0700 (PDT), "ke...@kjwdesigns.com"
>><ke...@kjwdesigns.com> wrote:
>>
>>>...
>>>> Here is a sine oscillator.
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.dropbox.com/s/wqygdxrcr2egxsv/AGC_Sine_Osc.jpg?raw-1 >
>>>>
>>>> The output amplitude is very stable with time and temperature. The
>>>> voltage at the collector is reliably 2xV+ p-p.
>>>>
>>>> I invented this when I was a kid, still in college. It was used in the
>>>> Boresight Alignment Kit for the C5A.
>>>>...
>
>It sort-of reminds me of the oscillator in the original touch-tone
>dial pad, although the AGC was a pair of silicon diodes in
>anti-parallel across a winding somewhere. The circuit had power gain,
>but no voltage gain, as I recall. Hmm. I think the feedback path was
>from emitter back to base of a single germanium transistor, biased
>using the drop across a silicon diode.
>
>I have that circuit diagram somewhere. I think it was published in
>the BSTJ.
Here it is. They used a germanium transistor and varistors for
>On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 10:31:44 -0700, John Larkin
><jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 10:05:03 -0700 (PDT), "ke...@kjwdesigns.com"
>><ke...@kjwdesigns.com> wrote:
>>
>>>...
>>>> Here is a sine oscillator.
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.dropbox.com/s/wqygdxrcr2egxsv/AGC_Sine_Osc.jpg?raw-1 >
>>>>
>>>> The output amplitude is very stable with time and temperature. The
>>>> voltage at the collector is reliably 2xV+ p-p.
>>>>
>>>> I invented this when I was a kid, still in college. It was used in the
>>>> Boresight Alignment Kit for the C5A.
>>>>...
>
>It sort-of reminds me of the oscillator in the original touch-tone
>dial pad, although the AGC was a pair of silicon diodes in
>anti-parallel across a winding somewhere. The circuit had power gain,
>but no voltage gain, as I recall. Hmm. I think the feedback path was
>from emitter back to base of a single germanium transistor, biased
>using the drop across a silicon diode.
>
>I have that circuit diagram somewhere. I think it was published in
>the BSTJ.
amplitude control.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/br6namqyxas1f02/Bell_DTMF.jpg?dl=0
>
>
>>>That configuration is usually known as a Reinartz oscillator. It has been commonly used as a self-oscillating mixer in transistor radios since the mid nineteen-fifties.
>>>
>>>In the common implementation the resonant tank is on the secondary rather than the collector to give some isolation from variation of transistor parameters and improve stability.
>>>
>>>.<https://www.electronics-notes.com/images/transistor-radio-self-oscillating-mixer-ferrite-rod-antenna.png>
>>>
>>>kw
>>
>>My circuit is clearly different. It's way simpler and has a built-in
>>AGC system that precisely controls oscillation amplitude.
>>
>>I used it as the excitation for a Talyvel arc-second-resolution
>>inclinometer, basically an LVDT on a pendulum.
>>
>>It was fun to work with. I tested it on a steel plate sitting on a
>>55-gallon drum full of rocks. I could see people walking around and
>>flexing the concrete slab building.
>>
>>Hey, they still make them!
>>
>>.<https://scigate.com.sg/products/43-taylor-hobson/2661-electronic-levels-clinometers?pdt=true>
>
>I think that they are optical now, versus ~LVDT.
>
>The original economic niche in machine shops has been taken over by
>optical autocollimators. But there are still big things like bridges.
>
>.<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autocollimator>
>
>
>Joe Gwinn
bitrex
Sep 21, 2021, 4:31:23 PM9/21/21
to
> (Mo enjoys knitting, and has made pilgrimages to upstate California
> and Ireland to meet sheep and get special wool. Turns out there is a
> famous sheep-shearer in our neighborhood.)
>
> Here's a home-made transmission-line transformer, under 1 ns rise
> time. The connectors are surface-mount and the windings are a Digikey
> stock connectorized coax jumper. It takes a couple minutes to assemble
> on a board.
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ievtck0gwv1tzd6/TX_1.jpg?raw=1
> And this is a heat-sunk air core inductor, wound on a Sharpie pen.
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/o2hz6oi08agzdy8/T850_Inductor.JPG?raw=1
>
the base resistor for larger step-up ratios if you first increase its
value, and then use a tap on the feedback winding to nudge the effective
base supply voltage up a bit:
<https://imgur.com/a/kezrBm5>
Version 4
SHEET 1 1148 680
WIRE -1120 -880 -1232 -880
WIRE -944 -880 -1056 -880
WIRE -752 -880 -944 -880
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FLAG -752 -672 0
SYMBOL ind2 -272 -368 M0
WINDOW 3 -49 82 Left 2
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SYMATTR Value 4.7µ
SYMBOL ind2 16 -368 M0
SYMATTR InstName L1
SYMATTR Value 4.7µ
SYMATTR InstName L2
SYMATTR Value 220µ
SYMBOL ind2 -304 368 M180
SYMATTR Value 220µ
WINDOW 0 36 80 Left 2
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName L3
SYMATTR Value 1µ
SYMBOL npn -352 0 R0
SYMATTR InstName Q1
SYMATTR Value 2SCR553P
SYMBOL cap -544 -272 R180
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName L3
SYMATTR Value 1µ
SYMBOL npn -352 0 R0
SYMATTR InstName Q1
SYMATTR Value 2SCR553P
WINDOW 0 24 56 Left 2
WINDOW 3 -86 38 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName C1
SYMATTR Value 0.47µ
SYMBOL res -928 -256 R180
WINDOW 3 -86 38 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName C1
SYMATTR Value 0.47µ
WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName R3
SYMATTR Value 2.2k
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName R3
SYMBOL cap -928 288 R180
WINDOW 0 24 56 Left 2
WINDOW 3 24 8 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName C2
SYMATTR Value 0.022µ
WINDOW 3 24 8 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName C2
SYMBOL voltage -1472 -480 R0
WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0
WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0
SYMATTR InstName V1
SYMATTR Value 5
SYMBOL cap 544 -144 R0
WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0
SYMATTR InstName V1
SYMATTR Value 5
SYMATTR InstName C3
SYMATTR Value 0.1µ
SYMBOL res 544 32 R0
SYMATTR Value 0.1µ
SYMATTR InstName R1
SYMATTR Value 1Meg
SYMBOL current 832 -240 R0
SYMATTR Value 1Meg
WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0
WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0
SYMATTR InstName I1
SYMATTR Value 0.005
SYMBOL cap 544 -336 R0
WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0
SYMATTR InstName I1
SYMATTR Value 0.005
SYMATTR InstName C4
SYMATTR Value 0.1µ
SYMBOL cap 672 -272 R0
SYMATTR Value 0.1µ
SYMATTR InstName C5
SYMATTR Value 0.47µ
SYMBOL schottky 320 0 R90
SYMATTR Value 0.47µ
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName D4
SYMATTR Value RB168L150
SYMATTR Description Diode
SYMATTR Type diode
SYMBOL schottky 320 -96 R90
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName D4
SYMATTR Value RB168L150
SYMATTR Description Diode
SYMATTR Type diode
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName D1
SYMATTR Value RB168L150
SYMATTR Description Diode
SYMATTR Type diode
SYMBOL schottky 256 -480 R270
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName D1
SYMATTR Value RB168L150
SYMATTR Description Diode
SYMATTR Type diode
WINDOW 0 32 32 VTop 2
WINDOW 3 0 32 VBottom 2
SYMATTR InstName D2
SYMATTR Value RB168L150
SYMATTR Description Diode
SYMATTR Type diode
SYMBOL schottky 256 -384 R270
WINDOW 3 0 32 VBottom 2
SYMATTR InstName D2
SYMATTR Value RB168L150
SYMATTR Description Diode
SYMATTR Type diode
WINDOW 0 32 32 VTop 2
WINDOW 3 0 32 VBottom 2
SYMATTR InstName D3
SYMATTR Value RB168L150
SYMATTR Description Diode
SYMATTR Type diode
SYMBOL ind2 -144 -704 M180
WINDOW 3 0 32 VBottom 2
SYMATTR InstName D3
SYMATTR Value RB168L150
SYMATTR Description Diode
SYMATTR Type diode
WINDOW 0 36 80 Left 2
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName L4
WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
SYMATTR Value 1µ
SYMBOL schottky -512 -896 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName D6
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR Value RB168L150
SYMATTR Description Diode
SYMATTR Type diode
SYMBOL res -384 -832 R0
SYMATTR Description Diode
SYMATTR Type diode
SYMATTR InstName R2
SYMATTR Value 10k
SYMBOL schottky -1120 -864 R270
SYMATTR Value 10k
WINDOW 0 32 32 VTop 2
WINDOW 3 0 32 VBottom 2
SYMATTR InstName D5
WINDOW 3 0 32 VBottom 2
SYMATTR Value RB168L150
SYMATTR Description Diode
SYMATTR Type diode
SYMBOL cap -768 -800 R0
SYMATTR Description Diode
SYMATTR Type diode
SYMATTR InstName C6
SYMATTR Value 4.7µ
TEXT -1464 -216 Left 2 !.tran 30m startup uic
SYMATTR Value 4.7µ
TEXT -1432 -248 Left 2 !K L1 L2 L3 L4 0.99
bitrex
Sep 21, 2021, 4:48:42 PM9/21/21
to
pretty crude
bitrex
Sep 21, 2021, 5:06:29 PM9/21/21
to
On 9/21/2021 3:51 PM, Klaus Kragelund wrote:
large load variations:
<https://sound-au.com/articles/smps-f15.gif>
The nice thing about some GreenPAK devices is they have two sets of
output pins, one rated to +5.5 and one rated to +12, with independent
Vccs. So the thing can start up off +5 and then an aux winding can feed
the +12 rail to drive the high-side transistor.
Lasse Langwadt Christensen
Sep 21, 2021, 5:22:58 PM9/21/21
to
Klaus Vestergaard Kragelund
Sep 21, 2021, 7:44:28 PM9/21/21
to
Anthony William Sloman
Sep 21, 2021, 9:10:14 PM9/21/21
to
On Wednesday, September 22, 2021 at 2:16:41 AM UTC+10, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 17:45:12 -0400, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:
> >Is it possible to take your standard Baxandall and tap the capacitor,
> >take an aux winding off the secondary and feed a somewhat higher DC
> >voltage to the cap (through the usual two-diode supply handoff
> >arrangement), and use it to feed the gate drive to the transistors as
> >well, which would be clocked rather than self-oscillating.
> >
> >The goal would be to have a quiet step-up converter that could do say 5
> >to ~150 in one step, or maybe with a single multiplier stage. That seems
> >hard to do with anything off the shelf as compact pulse transformers
> >with the appropriate turns ratio don't seem to be really available, you
> >get into CFL-type transformers whose ratios are too large, but there
> >might be something appropriate with a third winding to bootstrap the
> >primary swing
> Here is a sine oscillator.
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/wqygdxrcr2egxsv/AGC_Sine_Osc.jpg?raw-1
>
> The output amplitude is very stable with time and temperature. The
> voltage at the collector is reliably 2xV+ p-p.
>
> I invented this when I was a kid, still in college. It was used in the
> Boresight Alignment Kit for the C5A.
For a rather undemanding understanding of "very stable". None of Vbe, saturation Vce, and current gain aren't all that stable.
> On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 17:45:12 -0400, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:
> >Is it possible to take your standard Baxandall and tap the capacitor,
> >take an aux winding off the secondary and feed a somewhat higher DC
> >voltage to the cap (through the usual two-diode supply handoff
> >arrangement), and use it to feed the gate drive to the transistors as
> >well, which would be clocked rather than self-oscillating.
> >
> >The goal would be to have a quiet step-up converter that could do say 5
> >to ~150 in one step, or maybe with a single multiplier stage. That seems
> >hard to do with anything off the shelf as compact pulse transformers
> >with the appropriate turns ratio don't seem to be really available, you
> >get into CFL-type transformers whose ratios are too large, but there
> >might be something appropriate with a third winding to bootstrap the
> >primary swing
> Here is a sine oscillator.
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/wqygdxrcr2egxsv/AGC_Sine_Osc.jpg?raw-1
>
> The output amplitude is very stable with time and temperature. The
> voltage at the collector is reliably 2xV+ p-p.
>
> I invented this when I was a kid, still in college. It was used in the
> Boresight Alignment Kit for the C5A.
Seriously stable stuff demodulates the output - carefully - compares it with a good quality voltage reference and twiddles the loop gain to keep the output amplitude where you want it
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
bitrex
Sep 21, 2021, 9:28:51 PM9/21/21
to
isolated Cuk too. Not as quiet as driving sines, but has the benefit of
a continuous input current. And the transformer turns ratio doesn't need
to be large to get a large step-up so off-the-shelf components should be
easy to find.
Lots of variations of the non-isolated Cuk online but seemingly not as
much about the isolated kind.
Jan Panteltje
Sep 22, 2021, 2:35:07 AM9/22/21
to
On a sunny day (Tue, 21 Sep 2021 13:00:03 -0700) it happened John Larkin
<jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
<jndkkgh4hgtrjf8tp...@4ax.com>:
>And this is a heat-sunk air core inductor, wound on a Sharpie pen.
>
>https://www.dropbox.com/s/o2hz6oi08agzdy8/T850_Inductor.JPG?raw=1
That soldering has me a bit worried...
<jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
<jndkkgh4hgtrjf8tp...@4ax.com>:
>And this is a heat-sunk air core inductor, wound on a Sharpie pen.
>
>https://www.dropbox.com/s/o2hz6oi08agzdy8/T850_Inductor.JPG?raw=1
Tabby
Sep 22, 2021, 8:41:35 AM9/22/21
to
ke...@kjwdesigns.com
Sep 22, 2021, 10:29:53 AM9/22/21
to
On Tuesday, 21 September 2021 at 10:31:52 UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 10:05:03 -0700 (PDT), "ke...@
> <ke...@...> wrote:
>
> >...
> >> Here is a sine oscillator.
> >>
> >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/wqygdxrcr2egxsv/AGC_Sine_Osc.jpg?raw-1
> >>
> >> The output amplitude is very stable with time and temperature. The
> >> voltage at the collector is reliably 2xV+ p-p.
> >>
> >> I invented this when I was a kid, still in college. It was used in the
> >> Boresight Alignment Kit for the C5A.
> >>...
> >
> >That configuration is usually known as a Reinartz oscillator. It has been commonly used as a self-oscillating mixer in transistor radios since the mid nineteen-fifties.
> >
> >In the common implementation the resonant tank is on the secondary rather than the collector to give some isolation from variation of transistor parameters and improve stability.
> >
> >https://www.electronics-notes.com/images/transistor-radio-self-oscillating-mixer-ferrite-rod-antenna.png
> >
> >kw
> My circuit is clearly different. It's way simpler and has a built-in
> AGC system that precisely controls oscillation amplitude.
The circuit I linked is a complete front-end showing a common use. Most of the other components are related to that , not for the basic oscillator. The only fundamental difference is the placement of the tank on the primary rather than the better position on the secondary.
> On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 10:05:03 -0700 (PDT), "ke...@
> <ke...@...> wrote:
>
> >...
> >> Here is a sine oscillator.
> >>
> >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/wqygdxrcr2egxsv/AGC_Sine_Osc.jpg?raw-1
> >>
> >> The output amplitude is very stable with time and temperature. The
> >> voltage at the collector is reliably 2xV+ p-p.
> >>
> >> I invented this when I was a kid, still in college. It was used in the
> >> Boresight Alignment Kit for the C5A.
> >>...
> >
> >That configuration is usually known as a Reinartz oscillator. It has been commonly used as a self-oscillating mixer in transistor radios since the mid nineteen-fifties.
> >
> >In the common implementation the resonant tank is on the secondary rather than the collector to give some isolation from variation of transistor parameters and improve stability.
> >
> >https://www.electronics-notes.com/images/transistor-radio-self-oscillating-mixer-ferrite-rod-antenna.png
> >
> >kw
> My circuit is clearly different. It's way simpler and has a built-in
> AGC system that precisely controls oscillation amplitude.
The only way your circuit reduces the number of components is by scrimping on biasing components.
Your circuit doesn't have any compensation for component variations or the operating current.
It also does not have AGC, it relies upon saturation of the transistor to limit the oscillation amplitude.
As Phil Hobbs mentions his book that is not the ideal way to control the amplitude of an oscillator and comes with side effects that reduce the quality of the output.
kw
...
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com
Sep 22, 2021, 10:39:11 AM9/22/21
to
But it's perfectly reliable.
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com
Sep 22, 2021, 10:52:53 AM9/22/21
to
On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 05:41:31 -0700 (PDT), Tabby <tabb...@gmail.com>
wrote:
The grey stuff is 3G thermally conductive pad, 5 w/m-K. It really
works. I roasted two generations of commercial inductors. Soldering "a
few points" along the coil would still leave a lot of the coil
basically uncooled, and the thermal contact areas would be small.
This is a 10 square inch, 7ns pulse width, 1400v, 5 MHz Pockels Cell
driver. This coil, and some critical pcb traces, get hot from skin
loss. The PCB is bolted to a water-cooled plate with more of the
gap-pad goop.
The power semis are SiC fets on AlN insulators, driven by GaN fets.
Fun project. I learned a lot.
wrote:
works. I roasted two generations of commercial inductors. Soldering "a
few points" along the coil would still leave a lot of the coil
basically uncooled, and the thermal contact areas would be small.
This is a 10 square inch, 7ns pulse width, 1400v, 5 MHz Pockels Cell
driver. This coil, and some critical pcb traces, get hot from skin
loss. The PCB is bolted to a water-cooled plate with more of the
gap-pad goop.
The power semis are SiC fets on AlN insulators, driven by GaN fets.
Fun project. I learned a lot.
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com
Sep 22, 2021, 10:57:41 AM9/22/21
to
On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 07:29:48 -0700 (PDT), "ke...@kjwdesigns.com"
<ke...@kjwdesigns.com> wrote:
>On Tuesday, 21 September 2021 at 10:31:52 UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 10:05:03 -0700 (PDT), "ke...@
>> <ke...@...> wrote:
>>
>> >...
>> >> Here is a sine oscillator.
>> >>
>> >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/wqygdxrcr2egxsv/AGC_Sine_Osc.jpg?raw-1
>> >>
>> >> The output amplitude is very stable with time and temperature. The
>> >> voltage at the collector is reliably 2xV+ p-p.
>> >>
>> >> I invented this when I was a kid, still in college. It was used in the
>> >> Boresight Alignment Kit for the C5A.
>> >>...
>> >
>> >That configuration is usually known as a Reinartz oscillator. It has been commonly used as a self-oscillating mixer in transistor radios since the mid nineteen-fifties.
>> >
>> >In the common implementation the resonant tank is on the secondary rather than the collector to give some isolation from variation of transistor parameters and improve stability.
>> >
>> >https://www.electronics-notes.com/images/transistor-radio-self-oscillating-mixer-ferrite-rod-antenna.png
>> >
>> >kw
>> My circuit is clearly different. It's way simpler and has a built-in
>> AGC system that precisely controls oscillation amplitude.
>
>The circuit I linked is a complete front-end showing a common use. Most of the other components are related to that , not for the basic oscillator. The only fundamental difference is the placement of the tank on the primary rather than the better position on the secondary.
>
>The only way your circuit reduces the number of components is by scrimping on biasing components.
The biasing is brilliant.
<ke...@kjwdesigns.com> wrote:
>On Tuesday, 21 September 2021 at 10:31:52 UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 10:05:03 -0700 (PDT), "ke...@
>> <ke...@...> wrote:
>>
>> >...
>> >> Here is a sine oscillator.
>> >>
>> >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/wqygdxrcr2egxsv/AGC_Sine_Osc.jpg?raw-1
>> >>
>> >> The output amplitude is very stable with time and temperature. The
>> >> voltage at the collector is reliably 2xV+ p-p.
>> >>
>> >> I invented this when I was a kid, still in college. It was used in the
>> >> Boresight Alignment Kit for the C5A.
>> >>...
>> >
>> >That configuration is usually known as a Reinartz oscillator. It has been commonly used as a self-oscillating mixer in transistor radios since the mid nineteen-fifties.
>> >
>> >In the common implementation the resonant tank is on the secondary rather than the collector to give some isolation from variation of transistor parameters and improve stability.
>> >
>> >https://www.electronics-notes.com/images/transistor-radio-self-oscillating-mixer-ferrite-rod-antenna.png
>> >
>> >kw
>> My circuit is clearly different. It's way simpler and has a built-in
>> AGC system that precisely controls oscillation amplitude.
>
>The circuit I linked is a complete front-end showing a common use. Most of the other components are related to that , not for the basic oscillator. The only fundamental difference is the placement of the tank on the primary rather than the better position on the secondary.
>
>The only way your circuit reduces the number of components is by scrimping on biasing components.
>
>Your circuit doesn't have any compensation for component variations or the operating current.
>
>It also does not have AGC, it relies upon saturation of the transistor to limit the oscillation amplitude.
>
>As Phil Hobbs mentions his book that is not the ideal way to control the amplitude of an oscillator and comes with side effects that reduce the quality of the output.
it is easily fixed.
Anthony William Sloman
Sep 22, 2021, 12:12:36 PM9/22/21
to
On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 12:57:41 AM UTC+10, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 07:29:48 -0700 (PDT), "ke...@kjwdesigns.com"
> <ke...@kjwdesigns.com> wrote:
>
> >On Tuesday, 21 September 2021 at 10:31:52 UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
> >> On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 10:05:03 -0700 (PDT), "ke...@
> >> <ke...@...> wrote:
<snip>
> On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 07:29:48 -0700 (PDT), "ke...@kjwdesigns.com"
> <ke...@kjwdesigns.com> wrote:
>
> >On Tuesday, 21 September 2021 at 10:31:52 UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
> >> On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 10:05:03 -0700 (PDT), "ke...@
> >> <ke...@...> wrote:
> >As Phil Hobbs mentions his book that is not the ideal way to control the amplitude of an oscillator and comes with side effects that reduce the quality of the output.
>
> This one can have a tiny flat on one sine excursion.
> If that matters,
It does.
> it is easily fixed.
It isn't.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
bitrex
Sep 22, 2021, 12:15:35 PM9/22/21
to
can cut that down as I posted FWIW
Jan Panteltje
Sep 22, 2021, 1:12:33 PM9/22/21
to
On a sunny day (Wed, 22 Sep 2021 07:39:02 -0700) it happened
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
<hufmkg1gktf83ec8s...@4ax.com>:
>On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 06:33:30 GMT, Jan Panteltje
><pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>On a sunny day (Tue, 21 Sep 2021 13:00:03 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>><jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
>><jndkkgh4hgtrjf8tp...@4ax.com>:
>>
>>>And this is a heat-sunk air core inductor, wound on a Sharpie pen.
>>>
>>>https://www.dropbox.com/s/o2hz6oi08agzdy8/T850_Inductor.JPG?raw=1
>>
>>That soldering has me a bit worried...
>
>That's one of my iterations. Production units are prettier.
OK
>But it's perfectly reliable.
Maybe I am thinking too much about G forces...
Through hole at the ends.
And like someone suggested, more pads along the way to support the coil.
But personally I would go for a ceramic coil former with mounting bracket etc..
Yours is probably OK for just the lab table.
Just spend some hours with something I build long ago that needed a new Oled display.
I had ordered some, but turns out although it is the same control chip
it needs one byte different in the Oled ini.
But the chip was soldered in, and all programming pins used for other things.
So programmed a new PIC and put in an IC socket so I can easily change code now.
Works fine, but was wired in my usual way, no PCB, so needed re-wiring.
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
<hufmkg1gktf83ec8s...@4ax.com>:
>On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 06:33:30 GMT, Jan Panteltje
><pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>On a sunny day (Tue, 21 Sep 2021 13:00:03 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>><jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
>><jndkkgh4hgtrjf8tp...@4ax.com>:
>>
>>>And this is a heat-sunk air core inductor, wound on a Sharpie pen.
>>>
>>>https://www.dropbox.com/s/o2hz6oi08agzdy8/T850_Inductor.JPG?raw=1
>>
>>That soldering has me a bit worried...
>
>That's one of my iterations. Production units are prettier.
>But it's perfectly reliable.
Through hole at the ends.
And like someone suggested, more pads along the way to support the coil.
But personally I would go for a ceramic coil former with mounting bracket etc..
Yours is probably OK for just the lab table.
Just spend some hours with something I build long ago that needed a new Oled display.
I had ordered some, but turns out although it is the same control chip
it needs one byte different in the Oled ini.
But the chip was soldered in, and all programming pins used for other things.
So programmed a new PIC and put in an IC socket so I can easily change code now.
Works fine, but was wired in my usual way, no PCB, so needed re-wiring.
John Larkin
Sep 22, 2021, 1:27:11 PM9/22/21
to
ke...@kjwdesigns.com
Sep 22, 2021, 2:24:45 PM9/22/21
to
On Wednesday, 22 September 2021 at 07:57:41 UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
...
> >
> >Your circuit doesn't have any compensation for component variations or the operating current.
> It does; it's just not obvious on casual inspection.
> >
> >It also does not have AGC, it relies upon saturation of the transistor to limit the oscillation amplitude.
> It does have AGC. Think about it.
I know how it works - but the bias generated on the capacitor that reduces the conduction angle doesn't do enough to prevent saturation. It's not automatic level control in the same way that good quality oscillators utilize which keep the active element in its linear region.
Most BJT oscillators do self-biasing, whether they want to or not. Often JFET oscillators add an external diode to avoid forward biasing the gate junction but still provide the automatic biasing.
The circuit may fulfill its requirements very well, I'm not saying that it doesn't but to claim that it is a novel invention when the same design had been around for decades and was in common usage is stretching things.
...
kw
...
> >> My circuit is clearly different. It's way simpler and has a built-in
> >> AGC system that precisely controls oscillation amplitude.
> >
> >The circuit I linked is a complete front-end showing a common use. Most of the other components are related to that , not for the basic oscillator. The only fundamental difference is the placement of the tank on the primary rather than the better position on the secondary.
> >
> >The only way your circuit reduces the number of components is by scrimping on biasing components.
> The biasing is brilliant.
That's a matter of opinion. It doesn't temper component or temperature variations.
> >> AGC system that precisely controls oscillation amplitude.
> >
> >The circuit I linked is a complete front-end showing a common use. Most of the other components are related to that , not for the basic oscillator. The only fundamental difference is the placement of the tank on the primary rather than the better position on the secondary.
> >
> >The only way your circuit reduces the number of components is by scrimping on biasing components.
> The biasing is brilliant.
> >
> >Your circuit doesn't have any compensation for component variations or the operating current.
> It does; it's just not obvious on casual inspection.
> >
> >It also does not have AGC, it relies upon saturation of the transistor to limit the oscillation amplitude.
> It does have AGC. Think about it.
Most BJT oscillators do self-biasing, whether they want to or not. Often JFET oscillators add an external diode to avoid forward biasing the gate junction but still provide the automatic biasing.
The circuit may fulfill its requirements very well, I'm not saying that it doesn't but to claim that it is a novel invention when the same design had been around for decades and was in common usage is stretching things.
...
kw
John Larkin
Sep 22, 2021, 2:44:22 PM9/22/21
to
On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 11:24:41 -0700 (PDT), "ke...@kjwdesigns.com"
<ke...@kjwdesigns.com> wrote:
>On Wednesday, 22 September 2021 at 07:57:41 UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>...
>> >> My circuit is clearly different. It's way simpler and has a built-in
>> >> AGC system that precisely controls oscillation amplitude.
>> >
>> >The circuit I linked is a complete front-end showing a common use. Most of the other components are related to that , not for the basic oscillator. The only fundamental difference is the placement of the tank on the primary rather than the better position on the secondary.
>> >
>> >The only way your circuit reduces the number of components is by scrimping on biasing components.
>> The biasing is brilliant.
>
>That's a matter of opinion. It doesn't temper component or temperature variations.
It's physics, not opinion. The AC amplitude is extremely stable over
<ke...@kjwdesigns.com> wrote:
>On Wednesday, 22 September 2021 at 07:57:41 UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>...
>> >> My circuit is clearly different. It's way simpler and has a built-in
>> >> AGC system that precisely controls oscillation amplitude.
>> >
>> >The circuit I linked is a complete front-end showing a common use. Most of the other components are related to that , not for the basic oscillator. The only fundamental difference is the placement of the tank on the primary rather than the better position on the secondary.
>> >
>> >The only way your circuit reduces the number of components is by scrimping on biasing components.
>> The biasing is brilliant.
>
>That's a matter of opinion. It doesn't temper component or temperature variations.
temperature, which was one requirement, and all the transistor needs
is some minimum beta.
>
>> >
>> >Your circuit doesn't have any compensation for component variations or the operating current.
>> It does; it's just not obvious on casual inspection.
>> >
>> >It also does not have AGC, it relies upon saturation of the transistor to limit the oscillation amplitude.
>> It does have AGC. Think about it.
>
>I know how it works - but the bias generated on the capacitor that reduces the conduction angle doesn't do enough to prevent saturation. It's not automatic level control in the same way that good quality oscillators utilize which keep the active element in its linear region.
>
>Most BJT oscillators do self-biasing, whether they want to or not. Often JFET oscillators add an external diode to avoid forward biasing the gate junction but still provide the automatic biasing.
>
>The circuit may fulfill its requirements very well, I'm not saying that it doesn't but to claim that it is a novel invention when the same design had been around for decades and was in common usage is stretching things.
I suppose it's simple enough that someone invented it before I did.
legg
Sep 22, 2021, 4:49:57 PM9/22/21
to
On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 17:59:22 -0700 (PDT), sea moss
<danlu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 2:45:16 PM UTC-7, bitrex wrote:
>> Is it possible to take your standard Baxandall and tap the capacitor,
>> take an aux winding off the secondary and feed a somewhat higher DC
>> voltage to the cap (through the usual two-diode supply handoff
>> arrangement), and use it to feed the gate drive to the transistors as
>> well, which would be clocked rather than self-oscillating.
>>
>> The goal would be to have a quiet step-up converter that could do say 5
>> to ~150 in one step, or maybe with a single multiplier stage. That seems
>> hard to do with anything off the shelf as compact pulse transformers
>> with the appropriate turns ratio don't seem to be really available, you
>> get into CFL-type transformers whose ratios are too large, but there
>> might be something appropriate with a third winding to bootstrap the
>> primary swing
>
>I was gonna take a look at your Spice model, but I am currently digesting the active-clamp forward topology (off the clock) so why look at yet another power converter circuit?
>
>But then I thought, maybe the active-clamp forward would work for you too. Try one of the transformers Lasse recommended. I cannot immediately see anything wrong with doing that... the active-clamp forward is nice since there is no reset winding needed, and the clamp capacitor soaks up the leakage energy making it one of the quieter isolated topologies.
>
>But like I said I am new to the topology so I cannot tell you if there are any subtleties to be careful with. Does anyone here have any insight into the active-clamp forward topology that I can't find in all the app notes? (not trying to hijack this thread)
If you want to compare an older stone tools and animal hide version
to the newer part simulations, you can fool with this one, which
uses the LTC version of jellybean UC3842 and self-driven mosfet
synchronous rectification.
http://ve3ute.ca/query/active_clamp_forward_syncrec_sim.zip
It illustrates all of the issues of control limits, dead-time,
leakage,stability (chaotic attractors) etc etc etc, when applied
to the forward topology.
The self-driven syncrec was notorious for self-oscillation on
application of voltage to it's output terminals (ie no input
power applied). Could be good, could be bad, depending on what
you want it to do . . .
It's always important to establish environmental design goals
and limits, when working with any topology. None will do everything,
but some can have distinct cost and performance advantages in
specific applications, at specific times in history.
Some older articles:
http://ve3ute.ca/query/active_clamp_-_switched_snubber_articles.zip
Don't forget also - this is a simulation and so are those for models
supplied by vendors of newer control chips.
RL
<danlu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 2:45:16 PM UTC-7, bitrex wrote:
>> Is it possible to take your standard Baxandall and tap the capacitor,
>> take an aux winding off the secondary and feed a somewhat higher DC
>> voltage to the cap (through the usual two-diode supply handoff
>> arrangement), and use it to feed the gate drive to the transistors as
>> well, which would be clocked rather than self-oscillating.
>>
>> The goal would be to have a quiet step-up converter that could do say 5
>> to ~150 in one step, or maybe with a single multiplier stage. That seems
>> hard to do with anything off the shelf as compact pulse transformers
>> with the appropriate turns ratio don't seem to be really available, you
>> get into CFL-type transformers whose ratios are too large, but there
>> might be something appropriate with a third winding to bootstrap the
>> primary swing
>
>
>But then I thought, maybe the active-clamp forward would work for you too. Try one of the transformers Lasse recommended. I cannot immediately see anything wrong with doing that... the active-clamp forward is nice since there is no reset winding needed, and the clamp capacitor soaks up the leakage energy making it one of the quieter isolated topologies.
>
>But like I said I am new to the topology so I cannot tell you if there are any subtleties to be careful with. Does anyone here have any insight into the active-clamp forward topology that I can't find in all the app notes? (not trying to hijack this thread)
If you want to compare an older stone tools and animal hide version
to the newer part simulations, you can fool with this one, which
uses the LTC version of jellybean UC3842 and self-driven mosfet
synchronous rectification.
http://ve3ute.ca/query/active_clamp_forward_syncrec_sim.zip
It illustrates all of the issues of control limits, dead-time,
leakage,stability (chaotic attractors) etc etc etc, when applied
to the forward topology.
The self-driven syncrec was notorious for self-oscillation on
application of voltage to it's output terminals (ie no input
power applied). Could be good, could be bad, depending on what
you want it to do . . .
It's always important to establish environmental design goals
and limits, when working with any topology. None will do everything,
but some can have distinct cost and performance advantages in
specific applications, at specific times in history.
Some older articles:
http://ve3ute.ca/query/active_clamp_-_switched_snubber_articles.zip
Don't forget also - this is a simulation and so are those for models
supplied by vendors of newer control chips.
RL
Joe Gwinn
Sep 22, 2021, 4:51:29 PM9/22/21
to
days - it used grid leak to generate the needed bias.
Joe Gwinn
bitrex
Sep 22, 2021, 5:08:55 PM9/22/21
to
bitrex
Sep 22, 2021, 5:19:00 PM9/22/21
to
On 9/22/2021 1:27 PM, John Larkin wrote:
circuit exactly. All one-transistor xfmr oscillator circuits bear some
similarity to each other, and I have a paper somewhere showing that in
essence they're all fundamentally equivalent but some are easier to
optimize for some characteristic than others.
sea moss
Sep 22, 2021, 9:42:42 PM9/22/21
to
> If you want to compare an older stone tools and animal hide version
> to the newer part simulations, you can fool with this one, which
> uses the LTC version of jellybean UC3842 and self-driven mosfet
> synchronous rectification.
>
> http://ve3ute.ca/query/active_clamp_forward_syncrec_sim.zip
>
> It illustrates all of the issues of control limits, dead-time,
> leakage,stability (chaotic attractors) etc etc etc, when applied
> to the forward topology.
>
> The self-driven syncrec was notorious for self-oscillation on
> application of voltage to it's output terminals (ie no input
> power applied). Could be good, could be bad, depending on what
> you want it to do . . .
>
> It's always important to establish environmental design goals
> and limits, when working with any topology. None will do everything,
> but some can have distinct cost and performance advantages in
> specific applications, at specific times in history.
>
> Some older articles:
>
> http://ve3ute.ca/query/active_clamp_-_switched_snubber_articles.zip
>
> Don't forget also - this is a simulation and so are those for models
> supplied by vendors of newer control chips.
>
> RL
I am having trouble opening those zip files...
> to the newer part simulations, you can fool with this one, which
> uses the LTC version of jellybean UC3842 and self-driven mosfet
> synchronous rectification.
>
> http://ve3ute.ca/query/active_clamp_forward_syncrec_sim.zip
>
> It illustrates all of the issues of control limits, dead-time,
> leakage,stability (chaotic attractors) etc etc etc, when applied
> to the forward topology.
>
> The self-driven syncrec was notorious for self-oscillation on
> application of voltage to it's output terminals (ie no input
> power applied). Could be good, could be bad, depending on what
> you want it to do . . .
>
> It's always important to establish environmental design goals
> and limits, when working with any topology. None will do everything,
> but some can have distinct cost and performance advantages in
> specific applications, at specific times in history.
>
> Some older articles:
>
> http://ve3ute.ca/query/active_clamp_-_switched_snubber_articles.zip
>
> Don't forget also - this is a simulation and so are those for models
> supplied by vendors of newer control chips.
>
> RL
In my application, synchronous rectification is not an option; the secondary is a separate, existing module. The leakage inductance is relatively large and unpredictable, which is what led me to try the active clamp forward. And for bitrex's application, since output voltage is high and current is low, synchronous rectification seems unnecessary.
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com
Sep 22, 2021, 10:25:18 PM9/22/21
to
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com
Sep 22, 2021, 10:28:35 PM9/22/21
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The thing you gotta ask yourself, punk, is what's the collector
current?
legg
Sep 22, 2021, 10:42:05 PM9/22/21
to
On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 18:42:38 -0700 (PDT), sea moss
<danlu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> If you want to compare an older stone tools and animal hide version
>> to the newer part simulations, you can fool with this one, which
>> uses the LTC version of jellybean UC3842 and self-driven mosfet
>> synchronous rectification.
>>
>> http://ve3ute.ca/query/active_clamp_forward_syncrec_sim.zip
>>
>> It illustrates all of the issues of control limits, dead-time,
>> leakage,stability (chaotic attractors) etc etc etc, when applied
>> to the forward topology.
>>
>> The self-driven syncrec was notorious for self-oscillation on
>> application of voltage to it's output terminals (ie no input
>> power applied). Could be good, could be bad, depending on what
>> you want it to do . . .
>>
>> It's always important to establish environmental design goals
>> and limits, when working with any topology. None will do everything,
>> but some can have distinct cost and performance advantages in
>> specific applications, at specific times in history.
>>
>> Some older articles:
>>
>> http://ve3ute.ca/query/active_clamp_-_switched_snubber_articles.zip
>>
>> Don't forget also - this is a simulation and so are those for models
>> supplied by vendors of newer control chips.
>>
>> RL
>
>I am having trouble opening those zip files...
What are you using to open them?
<danlu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> If you want to compare an older stone tools and animal hide version
>> to the newer part simulations, you can fool with this one, which
>> uses the LTC version of jellybean UC3842 and self-driven mosfet
>> synchronous rectification.
>>
>> http://ve3ute.ca/query/active_clamp_forward_syncrec_sim.zip
>>
>> It illustrates all of the issues of control limits, dead-time,
>> leakage,stability (chaotic attractors) etc etc etc, when applied
>> to the forward topology.
>>
>> The self-driven syncrec was notorious for self-oscillation on
>> application of voltage to it's output terminals (ie no input
>> power applied). Could be good, could be bad, depending on what
>> you want it to do . . .
>>
>> It's always important to establish environmental design goals
>> and limits, when working with any topology. None will do everything,
>> but some can have distinct cost and performance advantages in
>> specific applications, at specific times in history.
>>
>> Some older articles:
>>
>> http://ve3ute.ca/query/active_clamp_-_switched_snubber_articles.zip
>>
>> Don't forget also - this is a simulation and so are those for models
>> supplied by vendors of newer control chips.
>>
>> RL
>
>I am having trouble opening those zip files...
Winzip (free since forever) works.
>
>In my application, synchronous rectification is not an option; the secondary is a separate, existing module. The leakage inductance is relatively large and unpredictable, which is what led me to try the active clamp forward. And for bitrex's application, since output voltage is high and current is low, synchronous rectification seems unnecessary.
Well, you can always dump it into a reservoir and recover it
>In my application, synchronous rectification is not an option; the secondary is a separate, existing module. The leakage inductance is relatively large and unpredictable, which is what led me to try the active clamp forward. And for bitrex's application, since output voltage is high and current is low, synchronous rectification seems unnecessary.
with anothere converter; use only as much energy in the clamp
as you need for reset. Leakage energy is usually more than that.
Better use flyback with active clamp instead, for energy recovery.
Lower power handling capability, though.
RL
bitrex
Sep 23, 2021, 12:29:34 AM9/23/21
to
the topic of politics
bitrex
Sep 23, 2021, 12:33:49 AM9/23/21
to
On 9/22/2021 10:25 PM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
Anthony William Sloman
Sep 23, 2021, 1:37:01 AM9/23/21
to
He appended his comment to post by Bitrex.
Curiously, Bitrex's comment about the Cuk inverter echos an element of the thread "Low noise, high bias voltage on picoAmp TIA's input, howto?" that started on the 21st May and ran until the 2nd July, which did include a little discussion of an an isolated Cuk-style - low ripple - inverter. I even posted a couple of .asc files of variations on the idea.
John Larkin made exactly one contribution to the thread and it wasn't highly technical.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com
Sep 23, 2021, 10:32:39 AM9/23/21
to
bitrex
Sep 23, 2021, 10:49:42 AM9/23/21
to
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com
Sep 23, 2021, 11:11:54 AM9/23/21
to
bitrex
Sep 23, 2021, 12:05:08 PM9/23/21
to
royalties and that particular philosophy PhD is pulling maybe 10G a
month from views and Patreons and such. Being an entertainer is a job
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