The CDC says vaccine protection is tumbling for older Americans, though they still work very well for younger people

[Fred Bloggs]

75yo seems to be the knee beyond which prevention of hospitalization drops more or less precipitously.
+65yo is a gray area.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/cdc-says-vaccine-protection-tumbling-170023721.html

Messy study didn't delineate which mutations were making people ill.

[Ed Lee]

88% of the new cases have the E484Q and D614G mutations.

Sep 2021 (35099 samples)
__USA____(35099)_|___2%___1%___2%__89%___2%___1%__92%___2%_|__0%__0%__2%_88%__1%__1%__8%
__USA/NY_(__692)_|___0%___0%___1%__96%___1%___1%__96%___1%_|__0%__0%__1%_94%__0%__1%__4%
__USA/NJ_(__906)_|___1%___1%___2%__94%___2%___1%__96%___2%_|__0%__0%__1%_93%__1%__1%__4%
__USA/PA_(__447)_|___0%___0%___0%__97%___0%___0%__99%___1%_|__0%__0%__1%_97%__0%__0%__2%
__USA/MI_(__208)_|___0%___0%___2%__96%___1%___0%__96%___1%_|__0%__0%__0%_95%__0%__0%__4%
__USA/FL_(_7163)_|___3%___3%___4%__89%___4%___1%__93%___4%_|__0%__0%__2%_88%__3%__1%__5%
__USA/TX_(_3812)_|___1%___1%___2%__91%___2%___1%__94%___2%_|__0%__0%__2%_90%__1%__0%__6%
__USA/AZ_(__496)_|___1%___0%___1%__94%___1%___1%__97%___1%_|__0%__0%__1%_94%__0%__1%__3%
__USA/NV_(__455)_|___1%___0%___0%__95%___0%___0%__95%___2%_|__0%__0%__1%_94%__0%__0%__4%
__USA/WA_(__972)_|___1%___1%___2%__81%___2%___1%__92%___2%_|__0%__0%_10%_79%__1%__1%__9%
__USA/CA_(_7936)_|___1%___1%___1%__89%___2%___1%__92%___3%_|__0%__0%__2%_88%__1%__1%__8%
__/CA-LA_(___78)_|__10%__10%__12%__58%__13%___1%__78%__12%_|__0%__1%_10%_58%_10%__1%_19%
_________________|_417N_452R_478K_484Q_501Y_570D_614G_681R_|___W___A___B___C___D___E___O
W=WuHan_A=452R+614G_B=484E+614G_C=484Q+614G_D=452R+478K+614T+681R_E=452R+570D_O=Other

[Anthony William Sloman]

As you get older, your immune system works progressively less well. All that vaccination against Covid-19 does is to prime your immune system to attack the Covid-19 virus when it does show up. If your immune is weaker, the attack will be less effective.

The strains of Covid-19 that make you ill are the ones you get exposed to - if it's an age-related problem, the particular strain may not make much difference.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

[Martin Brown]

They don't really need to.

Alpha and earlier strains were quite tame when compared to Delta.

Delta is endemic in both the USA and UK now and is twice as likely to
infect you and once infected twice as likely to put you in hospital.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/risks-of-the-delta-variant-for-vaccinated-vs-unvaccinated-people

UK is planning a booster shot for those over 65? (age still TBD) and
also with weakened immune systems of any age.

Unclear yet whether it will be a homogeneous shot of AZ for most or a
heterogeneous third jab of Pfizer after two of AZ for most people (or
possibly vice versa for those elderly people who got Pfizer). It may
only be used for the most vulnerable rather than blanket coverage.

UK research seems to suggest that a third jab of the AZ vaccine is not
as effective as a third jab of the mRNA vaccines. But data from Israel
tends to suggest that Delta has somehow exploited a weak spot in the
Pfizer vaccine as used exclusively in their population. They have
accidentally made a petri dish for vaccine escape strains to evolve.

US is also in danger of making the same mistake because of the high
proportion of superstitious vaccine refuseniks over there and having so
many people with only a partial single dose vaccination (which is no
protection at all against catching Delta).

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[Don Y]

On 9/12/2021 5:25 AM, Martin Brown wrote:
> On 10/09/2021 22:31, Fred Bloggs wrote:
>> 75yo seems to be the knee beyond which prevention of hospitalization drops
>> more or less precipitously.
>> +65yo is a gray area.
>>
>> https://www.yahoo.com/news/cdc-says-vaccine-protection-tumbling-170023721.html
>>
>> Messy study didn't delineate which mutations were making people ill.
>
> They don't really need to.
>
> Alpha and earlier strains were quite tame when compared to Delta.
>
> Delta is endemic in both the USA and UK now and is twice as likely to infect
> you and once infected twice as likely to put you in hospital.

And 10-11 times more likely to kill you (if unvaxed).

> UK is planning a booster shot for those over 65? (age still TBD) and also with
> weakened immune systems of any age.

I believe US has already put in place mechanisms to allow folks to
"self-certify" their *need* for a booster.

> Unclear yet whether it will be a homogeneous shot of AZ for most or a
> heterogeneous third jab of Pfizer after two of AZ for most people (or possibly
> vice versa for those elderly people who got Pfizer). It may only be used for
> the most vulnerable rather than blanket coverage.
>
> UK research seems to suggest that a third jab of the AZ vaccine is not as
> effective as a third jab of the mRNA vaccines. But data from Israel tends to
> suggest that Delta has somehow exploited a weak spot in the Pfizer vaccine as
> used exclusively in their population. They have accidentally made a petri dish
> for vaccine escape strains to evolve.
>
> US is also in danger of making the same mistake because of the high proportion
> of superstitious vaccine refuseniks over there and having so many people with
> only a partial single dose vaccination (which is no protection at all against
> catching Delta).

It's only a matter of time before the US is *forced* to release the secret
studies that *prove* that a "Freedom Card" ($200 counterfeit vaccination card),
coupled with daily doses of Ivermectin is even *more* effective at preventing
infection than those silly vaccines! Note that the vaccines are FREE because
they don't work as good as the Freedom Card regimen!

Folks are currently at work printing Freedom BOOSTER Cards -- projected to
sell for $100 -- to ensure prolonged protection in spite of the current
outbreak.

And, if you act now, you can get a SECOND card, absolutely free (just add
separate shipping and handling) if you mention code "WHATANIDIOT"!

Operators are standing by...

[Fred Bloggs]

There's much more to it than that. There is the important issue of exposure level to the virus. Because people infected with Delta have 1000x the viral load, they're more likely to expose others to a very large number of virus particles. You can have a superhuman immunity and be triply vaccinated with the best vaccine available, and you're not going to survive an extremely large level of exposure to the virus. There's going to be too much of it in your lungs and nasal passages or whatever for your antibody levels to clear, and it's going to start infecting cells. This is what happened in Israel, they know this now. The situation is worse for older because they have less antibodies and are therefore susceptible to infection from a lesser exposure level. If you mask up and distance, then your chances of being subjected to an exposure level that your immunity can't handle and becomes an infection are reduced to nothing.

>
> --
> Regards,
> Martin Brown

[jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com]

On Sun, 12 Sep 2021 13:25:21 +0100, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

>On 10/09/2021 22:31, Fred Bloggs wrote:
>> 75yo seems to be the knee beyond which prevention of hospitalization drops more or less precipitously.
>> +65yo is a gray area.
>>
>> https://www.yahoo.com/news/cdc-says-vaccine-protection-tumbling-170023721.html
>>
>> Messy study didn't delineate which mutations were making people ill.
>
>They don't really need to.
>
>Alpha and earlier strains were quite tame when compared to Delta.
>
>Delta is endemic in both the USA and UK now and is twice as likely to
>infect you and once infected twice as likely to put you in hospital.
>
>https://www.healthline.com/health-news/risks-of-the-delta-variant-for-vaccinated-vs-unvaccinated-people
>
>UK is planning a booster shot for those over 65? (age still TBD) and
>also with weakened immune systems of any age.
>
>Unclear yet whether it will be a homogeneous shot of AZ for most or a
>heterogeneous third jab of Pfizer after two of AZ for most people (or
>possibly vice versa for those elderly people who got Pfizer). It may
>only be used for the most vulnerable rather than blanket coverage.
>
>UK research seems to suggest that a third jab of the AZ vaccine is not
>as effective as a third jab of the mRNA vaccines. But data from Israel
>tends to suggest that Delta has somehow exploited a weak spot in the
>Pfizer vaccine as used exclusively in their population. They have
>accidentally made a petri dish for vaccine escape strains to evolve.

Exactly. A single-target attack on a virus is relatively easy to
evolve around.

>
>US is also in danger of making the same mistake because of the high
>proportion of superstitious vaccine refuseniks over there and having so
>many people with only a partial single dose vaccination (which is no
>protection at all against catching Delta).

The big reason that this is such a nasty virus is that it didn't
evolve naturally and incrementally like most do. It has no known
origin and no obvious ancestors; it popped into existance without
warning. Our collective immune systems were taken by assault.

(This is consistent with it being manufactured, not evolved.)

Delta and other variants are regressing towards the usual, natural,
incremental path of viruses.



--

Father Brown's figure remained quite dark and still;
but in that instant he had lost his head. His head was
always most valuable when he had lost it.

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 11:54:42 PM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 8:25:28 AM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:
> > On 10/09/2021 22:31, Fred Bloggs wrote:

<snip>

> > US is also in danger of making the same mistake because of the high
> > proportion of superstitious vaccine refuseniks over there and having so
> > many people with only a partial single dose vaccination (which is no
> > protection at all against catching Delta).
>
> There's much more to it than that. There is the important issue of exposure level to the virus. Because people infected with Delta have 1000x the viral load, they're more likely to expose others to a very large number of virus particles.

Interesting statistic. I wonder where it comes from. It does sound improbable.

> You can have a superhuman immunity and be triply vaccinated with the best vaccine available, and you're not going to survive an extremely large level of exposure to the virus. There's going to be too much of it in your lungs and nasal passages or whatever for your antibody levels to clear, and it's going to start infecting cells.

The corona virus always infects cells. That's the only thing it can do.

The proposition that it going to swamp vaccine protection seems unlikely. Vaccinate people do get infected with the delta virus, but they don't stay infected for long and hardly ever need to be hospitalised

>This is what happened in Israel, they know this now.

Or so Fred thinks.

> The situation is worse for older because they have less antibodies and are therefore susceptible to infection from a lesser exposure level.

The elderly do tend to have a weaker immune system overall - not just fewer antibodies. Everybody seems to be susceptible to infection by the delta strain, but the vaccinated do seem to throw it off a lot faster.

> If you mask up and distance, then your chances of being subjected to an exposure level that your immunity can't handle and becomes an infection are reduced to nothing.

The exposure level determine how many sites get infected. If a virus particle hits an ACE-2 receptor, you are going to end up infected. Getting vaccinated mainly means that you won't stay infected for long.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

[Fred Bloggs]

On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 10:18:38 AM UTC-4, bill....@ieee.org wrote:

> --
> Bill Sloman, Sydney

Just shut-up you godammed jackass. I'm sick and tired of repeatedly establishing your ignorance. You don't know a damned thing. I've never seen so much of know-nothing so obsessed with pretending to expertise.

[Fred Bloggs]

Not really. The human immune system is also mixing up the genetics used to produce the antibodies, so they're evolving too.
The "single" target is the viral surface protein essential for cell fusion/infection. That's pretty much it for targets without risking antibody disease enhancement.

> >
> >US is also in danger of making the same mistake because of the high
> >proportion of superstitious vaccine refuseniks over there and having so
> >many people with only a partial single dose vaccination (which is no
> >protection at all against catching Delta).
> The big reason that this is such a nasty virus is that it didn't
> evolve naturally and incrementally like most do. It has no known
> origin and no obvious ancestors; it popped into existance without
> warning. Our collective immune systems were taken by assault.
>
> (This is consistent with it being manufactured, not evolved.)
>
> Delta and other variants are regressing towards the usual, natural,
> incremental path of viruses.

The new C1.2 has 42x the mutation rate. It was spawned in South Africa among a large unvaccinated population.
It is the large unvaccinated populations that are the true petri dish of mutations. Get a clue.

[whit3rd]

On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 7:18:24 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Sep 2021 13:25:21 +0100, Martin Brown
> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

> >UK research seems to suggest that a third jab of the AZ vaccine is not
> >as effective as a third jab of the mRNA vaccines. But data from Israel
> >tends to suggest that Delta has somehow exploited a weak spot in the
> >Pfizer vaccine as used exclusively in their population. They have
> >accidentally made a petri dish for vaccine escape strains to evolve.

> Exactly. A single-target attack on a virus is relatively easy to
> evolve around.

No, not true; exactly backward. The single-target approach allows you to PICK THE TARGET
so that mutations of decorative nucleic acids aren't enough to dodge the protective
effect. Our technology is able to identify the vital parts of the virus rather
than target those parts that are accessories to be swapped casually.

Species have gone extinct because they couldn't evolve to tolerate stone spearheads.
Our ancestors aimed those spearheads. We can still do that.

[jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com]

On Sun, 12 Sep 2021 09:23:36 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 7:18:24 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>> On Sun, 12 Sep 2021 13:25:21 +0100, Martin Brown
>> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> >UK research seems to suggest that a third jab of the AZ vaccine is not
>> >as effective as a third jab of the mRNA vaccines. But data from Israel
>> >tends to suggest that Delta has somehow exploited a weak spot in the
>> >Pfizer vaccine as used exclusively in their population. They have
>> >accidentally made a petri dish for vaccine escape strains to evolve.
>
>> Exactly. A single-target attack on a virus is relatively easy to
>> evolve around.
>
>No, not true; exactly backward. The single-target approach allows you to PICK THE TARGET
>so that mutations of decorative nucleic acids aren't enough to dodge the protective
>effect. Our technology is able to identify the vital parts of the virus rather
>than target those parts that are accessories to be swapped casually.

I think that the criterion for Project Warp Speed was "pick anything
that looks like it might work."

The reduced effectiveness of current vaccines against mutants suggest
that the targets weren't picked so well.

>
>Species have gone extinct because they couldn't evolve to tolerate stone spearheads.
>Our ancestors aimed those spearheads. We can still do that.

Some day maybe. Most medical research is still more like shotguns.

[Brent Locher]

On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 8:59:07 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
> On 9/12/2021 5:25 AM, Martin Brown wrote:
> > On 10/09/2021 22:31, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> >> 75yo seems to be the knee beyond which prevention of hospitalization drops
> >> more or less precipitously.
> >> +65yo is a gray area.
> >>
> >> https://www.yahoo.com/news/cdc-says-vaccine-protection-tumbling-170023721.html
> >>
> >> Messy study didn't delineate which mutations were making people ill.
> >
> > They don't really need to.
> >
> > Alpha and earlier strains were quite tame when compared to Delta.
> >
> > Delta is endemic in both the USA and UK now and is twice as likely to infect
> > you and once infected twice as likely to put you in hospital.
> And 10-11 times more likely to kill you (if unvaxed).

Hmm a month ago that was 30-40 times. I am sensing a trend here. Oh well.... If only the unvaxxed would take their vaccine then the vaccinated people would have vaccines that worked as designed.

[Brent Locher]

On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 12:47:33 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Sep 2021 09:23:36 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 7:18:24 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> >> On Sun, 12 Sep 2021 13:25:21 +0100, Martin Brown
> >> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> >UK research seems to suggest that a third jab of the AZ vaccine is not
> >> >as effective as a third jab of the mRNA vaccines. But data from Israel
> >> >tends to suggest that Delta has somehow exploited a weak spot in the
> >> >Pfizer vaccine as used exclusively in their population. They have
> >> >accidentally made a petri dish for vaccine escape strains to evolve.
> >
> >> Exactly. A single-target attack on a virus is relatively easy to
> >> evolve around.
> >
> >No, not true; exactly backward. The single-target approach allows you to PICK THE TARGET
> >so that mutations of decorative nucleic acids aren't enough to dodge the protective
> >effect. Our technology is able to identify the vital parts of the virus rather
> >than target those parts that are accessories to be swapped casually.
> I think that the criterion for Project Warp Speed was "pick anything
> that looks like it might work."
>

Project warp speed turned into ... deny anything that might work except for some "vaccine " that required rewriting the definition of what a vaccine is and then force everyone to take it or else you get locked out of your job. What a great country we live in!

[whit3rd]

On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 9:47:33 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Sep 2021 09:23:36 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 7:18:24 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

> >>... A single-target attack on a virus is relatively easy to

> >> evolve around.

> >No, not true; exactly backward. The single-target approach allows you to PICK THE TARGET
> >so that mutations of decorative nucleic acids aren't enough to dodge the protective
> >effect. Our technology is able to identify the vital parts of the virus rather
> >than target those parts that are accessories to be swapped casually.

> I think that the criterion for Project Warp Speed was "pick anything
> that looks like it might work."

The builders of vaccines weren't limited by a political imperative that came late
in the game. The vaccine technology is sound.

> The reduced effectiveness of current vaccines against mutants suggest
> that the targets weren't picked so well.

Nonsense. The vaccinated have much lower susceptibility to all the variants,
there's no evidence of mutants having any general 'vaccine resistance', though
there's lots of vaccines out there, and results vary. I was specifically referring
to the RNA vaccines, maybe the new DNA type also.

> >Species have gone extinct because they couldn't evolve to tolerate stone spearheads.
> >Our ancestors aimed those spearheads. We can still do that.

> Some day maybe. Most medical research is still more like shotguns.

That 'some day' was years ago. The lame 'most medical research' label,
and the shotgun analogy, are just bafflegab.

[Fred Bloggs]

On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 1:39:05 PM UTC-4, blo...@columbus.rr.com wrote:
> On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 8:59:07 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
> > On 9/12/2021 5:25 AM, Martin Brown wrote:
> > > On 10/09/2021 22:31, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > >> 75yo seems to be the knee beyond which prevention of hospitalization drops
> > >> more or less precipitously.
> > >> +65yo is a gray area.
> > >>
> > >> https://www.yahoo.com/news/cdc-says-vaccine-protection-tumbling-170023721.html
> > >>
> > >> Messy study didn't delineate which mutations were making people ill.
> > >
> > > They don't really need to.
> > >
> > > Alpha and earlier strains were quite tame when compared to Delta.
> > >
> > > Delta is endemic in both the USA and UK now and is twice as likely to infect
> > > you and once infected twice as likely to put you in hospital.
> > And 10-11 times more likely to kill you (if unvaxed).
> Hmm a month ago that was 30-40 times. I am sensing a trend here. Oh well.... If only the unvaxxed would take their vaccine then the vaccinated people would have vaccines that worked as designed.

New therapeutics are being used. Did you think of that?
The vaccines are very effective against the existing variants The fatalities among the vaccinated are very old people, median age of 80, and people with serious health conditions such as immunocompromised people.
You can be proud of coming across like an ignorant punk.

[jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com]

On Sun, 12 Sep 2021 10:43:28 -0700 (PDT), Brent Locher
<blo...@columbus.rr.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 12:47:33 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>> On Sun, 12 Sep 2021 09:23:36 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 7:18:24 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>> >> On Sun, 12 Sep 2021 13:25:21 +0100, Martin Brown
>> >> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
>> >
>> >> >UK research seems to suggest that a third jab of the AZ vaccine is not
>> >> >as effective as a third jab of the mRNA vaccines. But data from Israel
>> >> >tends to suggest that Delta has somehow exploited a weak spot in the
>> >> >Pfizer vaccine as used exclusively in their population. They have
>> >> >accidentally made a petri dish for vaccine escape strains to evolve.
>> >
>> >> Exactly. A single-target attack on a virus is relatively easy to
>> >> evolve around.
>> >
>> >No, not true; exactly backward. The single-target approach allows you to PICK THE TARGET
>> >so that mutations of decorative nucleic acids aren't enough to dodge the protective
>> >effect. Our technology is able to identify the vital parts of the virus rather
>> >than target those parts that are accessories to be swapped casually.
>> I think that the criterion for Project Warp Speed was "pick anything
>> that looks like it might work."
>>
>Project warp speed turned into ... deny anything that might work except for some "vaccine " that required rewriting the definition of what a vaccine is and then force everyone to take it or else you get locked out of your job. What a great country we live in!

The vaccines mostly work.

[Don Y]

On 9/12/2021 10:45 AM, Fred Bloggs wrote:

>>> And 10-11 times more likely to kill you (if unvaxed).
>> Hmm a month ago that was 30-40 times. I am sensing a trend here. Oh well.... If only the unvaxxed would take their vaccine then the vaccinated people would have vaccines that worked as designed.
>
> New therapeutics are being used. Did you think of that?
> The vaccines are very effective against the existing variants The fatalities among the vaccinated are very old people, median age of 80, and people with serious health conditions such as immunocompromised people.
> You can be proud of coming across like an ignorant punk.

Exactly. He also clearly misses the point that you have to *catch* the
virus in order to DIE from it!

So, the overall chance of death is:
chance of infection * chance of succumbing
Chance of infection is much higher in The Ignorants.
Then chance of succumbing is another tenfold.

But, as the idiot obviously understands neither science nor math,
what would you expect???

I'm sure he's still whining about an "untested" vaccine. And the hordes
of deaths *from* the vaccine.

Gotta wonder how he tolerated his DPT, smallpox, polio, measles, etc.
vaccines. I wonder how excited he'll be to have shingles? I'm told
it is a delightful experience -- NOT!

[Brent Locher]

On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 1:45:53 PM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 1:39:05 PM UTC-4, blo...@columbus.rr.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 8:59:07 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
> > > On 9/12/2021 5:25 AM, Martin Brown wrote:
> > > > On 10/09/2021 22:31, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > > >> 75yo seems to be the knee beyond which prevention of hospitalization drops
> > > >> more or less precipitously.
> > > >> +65yo is a gray area.
> > > >>
> > > >> https://www.yahoo.com/news/cdc-says-vaccine-protection-tumbling-170023721.html
> > > >>
> > > >> Messy study didn't delineate which mutations were making people ill.
> > > >
> > > > They don't really need to.
> > > >
> > > > Alpha and earlier strains were quite tame when compared to Delta.
> > > >
> > > > Delta is endemic in both the USA and UK now and is twice as likely to infect
> > > > you and once infected twice as likely to put you in hospital.
> > > And 10-11 times more likely to kill you (if unvaxed).
> > Hmm a month ago that was 30-40 times. I am sensing a trend here. Oh well.... If only the unvaxxed would take their vaccine then the vaccinated people would have vaccines that worked as designed.



> New therapeutics are being used. Did you think of that?

Those therapeutics just as effectively (or not) for vaccinated and un vaccinated....did you think of that?

> The vaccines are very effective against the existing variants The fatalities among the vaccinated are very old people, median age of 80, and people with serious health conditions such as immunocompromised people.

Fantastic, then quit being obsessed with forcing everyone to take a vaccine they do not want (My body my choice- -right?)

> You can be proud of coming across like an ignorant punk.

I am a punk because I cannot shake the absurd outrage that your vaccine will not work if I do not take my vaccine. And to prove it lets fire all the people who refuse the vaccine. I have not told anyone what to do other than to stop embracing the mind set that leads to fascism.

[Rick C]

On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 1:59:32 PM UTC-4, blo...@columbus.rr.com wrote:
> I am a punk because I cannot shake the absurd outrage that your vaccine will not work if I do not take my vaccine. And to prove it lets fire all the people who refuse the vaccine. I have not told anyone what to do other than to stop embracing the mind set that leads to fascism.

Ok, let's cut through the rhetoric and discuss one simple issue. You characterize the idea of everyone getting the vaccine as "your vaccine will not work if I do not take my vaccine". Let's analyze why that is not the issue anyone other than you is discussing.

The virus is infecting many more unvaccinated people than vaccinated people. Do you disagree with that?

So in areas of the world where the vaccination rate is not high enough, the virus is infecting a lot more people. Do you disagree with that?

If the vaccination rate is high enough the rate of infection can be brought to very low numbers. Do you disagree with that?

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

[DecadentLinux...@decadence.org]

Brent Locher <blo...@columbus.rr.com> wrote in
news:b41a0dd9-c167-4fd6...@googlegroups.com:

> I am a punk because I cannot shake the absurd outrage that your
> vaccine will not work if I do not take my vaccine. And to prove
> it lets fire all the people who refuse the vaccine. I have not
> told anyone what to do other than to stop embracing the mind set
> that leads to fascism.
>
>

We're going to take you away on the thin ice of your mind
'cause that stupid shit won't play

He hey he hey he hey hey

Your mask is in the gutter and your vaccine is in the sink.

Time to track you down and slam your ass into the clink!

[Fred Bloggs]

On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 12:47:33 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Sep 2021 09:23:36 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 7:18:24 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> >> On Sun, 12 Sep 2021 13:25:21 +0100, Martin Brown
> >> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> >UK research seems to suggest that a third jab of the AZ vaccine is not
> >> >as effective as a third jab of the mRNA vaccines. But data from Israel
> >> >tends to suggest that Delta has somehow exploited a weak spot in the
> >> >Pfizer vaccine as used exclusively in their population. They have
> >> >accidentally made a petri dish for vaccine escape strains to evolve.
> >
> >> Exactly. A single-target attack on a virus is relatively easy to
> >> evolve around.
> >
> >No, not true; exactly backward. The single-target approach allows you to PICK THE TARGET
> >so that mutations of decorative nucleic acids aren't enough to dodge the protective
> >effect. Our technology is able to identify the vital parts of the virus rather
> >than target those parts that are accessories to be swapped casually.
> I think that the criterion for Project Warp Speed was "pick anything
> that looks like it might work."

Pfizer didn't take a penny of their development money. Warp Speed did not contribute to the development of their vaccine. They didn't need the hassle of dealing with the low caliber military management Trump appointed there.

[Flyguy]

I see that you got yours...

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Monday, September 13, 2021 at 3:39:05 AM UTC+10, blo...@columbus.rr.com wrote:
> On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 8:59:07 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
> > On 9/12/2021 5:25 AM, Martin Brown wrote:
> > > On 10/09/2021 22:31, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > >> 75yo seems to be the knee beyond which prevention of hospitalization drops
> > >> more or less precipitously.
> > >> +65yo is a gray area.
> > >>
> > >> https://www.yahoo.com/news/cdc-says-vaccine-protection-tumbling-170023721.html
> > >>
> > >> Messy study didn't delineate which mutations were making people ill.
> > >
> > > They don't really need to.
> > >
> > > Alpha and earlier strains were quite tame when compared to Delta.
> > >
> > > Delta is endemic in both the USA and UK now and is twice as likely to infect
> > > you and once infected twice as likely to put you in hospital.
> > And 10-11 times more likely to kill you (if unvaxed).
>
> Hmm a month ago that was 30-40 times. I am sensing a trend here. Oh well.... If only the unvaxxed would take their vaccine then the vaccinated people would have vaccines that worked as designed.

Brent Locher has this weird idea that the effectiveness of vaccination for one individual depends on whether other people have been vaccinated.

He seems to have latched onto the concept of herd immunity without realising how it works. In particular he has missed the point that herd immunity mainly protects people who haven't been vaccinated, who are free riding on the majority who have been vaccinated.

<snip>

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Monday, September 13, 2021 at 3:43:32 AM UTC+10, blo...@columbus.rr.com wrote:
> On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 12:47:33 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> > On Sun, 12 Sep 2021 09:23:36 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 7:18:24 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> > >> On Sun, 12 Sep 2021 13:25:21 +0100, Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

<snip>

> > >No, not true; exactly backward. The single-target approach allows you to PICK THE TARGET
> > >so that mutations of decorative nucleic acids aren't enough to dodge the protective
> > >effect. Our technology is able to identify the vital parts of the virus rather
> > >than target those parts that are accessories to be swapped casually.
> >
> > I think that the criterion for Project Warp Speed was "pick anything
> > that looks like it might work."
> >
> Project warp speed turned into ... deny anything that might work except for some "vaccine " that required rewriting the definition of what a vaccine is and then force everyone to take it or else you get locked out of your job. What a great country we live in!

Brent Locher's alternative to vaccination seems to be to involved everybody getting naturally infected with the real virus, with a roughly one percent chance of ending up dead and a roughly 10% chance of ending up crippled with "long covid".

Very few people think much of this approach.

> > The reduced effectiveness of current vaccines against mutants suggest that the targets weren't picked so well.

The vaccines still seem to be pretty effective at stopping even the delta strain from killing people, and when the vaccinated do get infected they don't stay infected for long and rarely infect anybody else. They might not be perfect, but they beat the hell out of any alternative.

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Monday, September 13, 2021 at 3:59:32 AM UTC+10, blo...@columbus.rr.com wrote:
> On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 1:45:53 PM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 1:39:05 PM UTC-4, blo...@columbus.rr.com wrote:
> > > On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 8:59:07 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
> > > > On 9/12/2021 5:25 AM, Martin Brown wrote:
> > > > > On 10/09/2021 22:31, Fred Bloggs wrote:

> I am a punk because I cannot shake the absurd outrage that your vaccine will not work if I do not take my vaccine.

This doesn't happen to be true, but Brent Locher keeps on repeating it as if he can't understand any of the comments that point out that the fatuous nclaim " your vaccine will not work if I do not take my vaccine" is one that he seems to have invented all by himself.

> And to prove it lets fire all the people who refuse the vaccine.

Sounds perfectly sensible. Some people (not many) can't be protected by vaccination, and we do need to protect them against potentially infectious idiots who should have got vaccinated but refuse it because they are deluded idiots.

> I have not told anyone what to do other than to stop embracing the mind set that leads to fascism.

There's nothing remotely fascist about putting pressure on people to get vaccinated. The US Supreme Court endorsed compulsory vaccination against smallpox back in 1913, back before fascism had been invented - though there was quite a lot of fascist thinking around then.

[Martin Brown]

It is extremely similar to several other coronaviruses, SARS, MERS and
historically the coronavirus we now call OC43 from the 1899 pandemic.
Compared to the Black death or Ebola it isn't so bad at 1% fatality
rate. Things get really serious when the disease causes >30% fatalities.

> (This is consistent with it being manufactured, not evolved.)

You can never say never unless someone was careless and left a GM marker
gene in the final construct but it looks far more like a natural virus
that has jumped species naturally to all but the most paranoid.

> Delta and other variants are regressing towards the usual, natural,
> incremental path of viruses.

Delta is about where a designer virus might have *aimed* to start out.
The original Covid-19 looks much more like something that has changed
hosts and then adjusted to maximise its infectivity in that new host.

Bats have a very funny immune system that allows them to coexist with a
lot of viruses in their system without getting sick. They are a perfect
reservoir for this sort of potential crossover infection.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[Martin Brown]

On 12/09/2021 19:10, Rick C wrote:
> On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 1:59:32 PM UTC-4,
> blo...@columbus.rr.com wrote:
>> I am a punk because I cannot shake the absurd outrage that your
>> vaccine will not work if I do not take my vaccine. And to prove it
>> lets fire all the people who refuse the vaccine. I have not told
>> anyone what to do other than to stop embracing the mind set that
>> leads to fascism.
>
> Ok, let's cut through the rhetoric and discuss one simple issue. You
> characterize the idea of everyone getting the vaccine as "your
> vaccine will not work if I do not take my vaccine". Let's analyze
> why that is not the issue anyone other than you is discussing.

There is an advantage to society if everyone behaves sensibly but in the
US the right to do really stupid things is absolute.

> The virus is infecting many more unvaccinated people than vaccinated
> people. Do you disagree with that?

Yes. At least in the UK with about 80% of people now vaccinated the
infection is still pretty equally split between the small unvaccinated
20% (mostly young people and dyed in the wool refuseniks) and the 80%
who are vaccinated. Deaths split 40% to 60% in the same cohorts.
However, we are seeing far too many younger unvaccinated people die.
They often lament their poor choice of refusing it on their death bed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-58376709

The age factor and relatively poor immune response of the most elderly
to the vaccine accounts for the higher proportion of vaccinated people
dying. Many more of them would die without the vaccine (and may yet die
if their double jab vaccine efficacy wanes too far during this winter).

https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/08/25/significant-proportions-of-people-admitted-to-hospital-or-dying-from-covid-19-in-england-are-vaccinated-this-doesnt-mean-the-vaccines-dont-work/

> So in areas of the world where the vaccination rate is not high
> enough, the virus is infecting a lot more people. Do you disagree
> with that?

It is still infecting a hell of a lot of people daily in the UK where
Delta is the dominant strain. Being vaccinated gives you a slight edge
of about 3x more exposure before being infected but the most important
thing it does is a 20x decrease in the risk of hospitalisation or death.

NB a single dose of a two dose vaccine schema gives almost no useful
protection against Delta according to the BMA. It worked pretty well
against all the earlier strains from 10 days after the first jab.

> If the vaccination rate is high enough the rate of infection can be
> brought to very low numbers. Do you disagree with that?

Yes. It would work if we had a proper truly sterilising vaccine but the
real world data from Israel and UK shows clearly that without other
additional measures the vaccine on its own cannot bring the infection
levels down. It merely limits the harm that Covid can inflict on us.

Scotland is ahead of the rest of England (their schools have been back
for 3 weeks now and 1 in 45 Scots had active Covid infections last week.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-53511877

At that burn rate most people will have had a real Covid infection as
well as their vaccination before the next year is out.

They have similar vaccination levels to the rest of the UK. What has
changed is that their schools and shortly universities are back on
campus. I fully expect the UK Covid rate curve to track last years shape
but starting from a baseline 30x higher (so eroding the roughly 30-60x
protective factor against serious illness that the vaccine provides).

England is at about 1 in 75 at present. These are high numbers! It will
really take off again in October just like last year. Freshers week
parties will drive infections in the young and then spill out into cities.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com]

On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 09:07:35 +0100, Martin Brown

Professional opinions vary on that.

>
>> Delta and other variants are regressing towards the usual, natural,
>> incremental path of viruses.
>
>Delta is about where a designer virus might have *aimed* to start out.
>The original Covid-19 looks much more like something that has changed
>hosts and then adjusted to maximise its infectivity in that new host.

It would be interesting to locate the natural precursor.

>
>Bats have a very funny immune system that allows them to coexist with a
>lot of viruses in their system without getting sick. They are a perfect
>reservoir for this sort of potential crossover infection.

And the Wuhan institute had people crawling through caves all over
Asia and sending virus samples (including the ones in themselves) back
to home base for experimenting. That was known to be hazardous.

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Tuesday, September 14, 2021 at 12:49:16 AM UTC+10, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 09:07:35 +0100, Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
> >On 12/09/2021 15:18, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> >> On Sun, 12 Sep 2021 13:25:21 +0100, Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
> >>> On 10/09/2021 22:31, Fred Bloggs wrote:

<snip>

> >You can never say never unless someone was careless and left a GM marker
> >gene in the final construct but it looks far more like a natural virus
> >that has jumped species naturally to all but the most paranoid.
>
> Professional opinions vary on that.

There are "professionals" who will tell Fox News what Fox News knows that it's right-wing readers want to hear. They aren't to be taken seriously.

> >> Delta and other variants are regressing towards the usual, natural, incremental path of viruses.
> >
> >Delta is about where a designer virus might have *aimed* to start out.
> >The original Covid-19 looks much more like something that has changed
> >hosts and then adjusted to maximise its infectivity in that new host.
>
> It would be interesting to locate the natural precursor.

It has been done. It's good at infecting bats and hopeless at infecting humans.

A variant that infects pangolins looks a lot more like Covid-19 but clearly isn't ancestral.

> >Bats have a very funny immune system that allows them to coexist with a
> >lot of viruses in their system without getting sick. They are a perfect
> >reservoir for this sort of potential crossover infection.
>
> And the Wuhan institute had people crawling through caves all over
> Asia and sending virus samples (including the ones in themselves) back
> to home base for experimenting. That was known to be hazardous.

Spelunking is. Bat corona viruses aren't. Other bat viruses can be very nasty - rabies and its relatives come to mind.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1539106/

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

[Flyguy]

> SL0WMAN, Sydney

Hey SL0WMAN, that decision took us down a rabbit hole that shows how dangerous such mandates can be, even to a brain-dead libtard such as yourself (https://www.history.com/news/smallpox-vaccine-supreme-court):

In a far darker chapter, the Jacobson decision also provided judicial cover for a Virginia law that authorized the involuntary sterilization of “feeble-minded” individuals in state mental institutions. In the 1920s, eugenics enjoyed wide support in scientific and medical circles, and the Supreme Court justices were not immune.

In the infamous 1927 case Buck v. Bell, the Supreme Court accepted the questionable “facts” presented in the lower court cases that a young Virginia woman named Carrie Bell hailed from a long line of “mental defectives” whose offspring were a burden on public welfare.

“The principle that sustains compulsory vaccination is broad enough to cover cutting the Fallopian tubes (Jacobson v Massachusetts, 197 US 11). Three generations of imbeciles are enough,” wrote Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes in a chilling opinion.

The Buck decision opened the floodgates and by 1930, a total of 24 states had passed involuntary sterilization laws and around 60,000 women were ultimately sterilized under these statutes.

“Buck v. Bell is the most extreme and barbaric example of the Supreme Court justifying a law in the name of public health,” says Sanders.

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 3:37:53 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
> On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 9:39:09 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> > On Monday, September 13, 2021 at 3:59:32 AM UTC+10, blo...@columbus.rr.com wrote:
> > > On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 1:45:53 PM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 1:39:05 PM UTC-4, blo...@columbus.rr.com wrote:
> > > > > On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 8:59:07 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
> > > > > > On 9/12/2021 5:25 AM, Martin Brown wrote:
> > > > > > > On 10/09/2021 22:31, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> >
> > > I am a punk because I cannot shake the absurd outrage that your vaccine will not work if I do not take my vaccine.
> >
> > This doesn't happen to be true, but Brent Locher keeps on repeating it as if he can't understand any of the comments that point out that the fatuous nclaim " your vaccine will not work if I do not take my vaccine" is one that he seems to have invented all by himself.
> >
> > > And to prove it lets fire all the people who refuse the vaccine.
> >
> > Sounds perfectly sensible. Some people (not many) can't be protected by vaccination, and we do need to protect them against potentially infectious idiots who should have got vaccinated but refuse it because they are deluded idiots.
> >
> > > I have not told anyone what to do other than to stop embracing the mind set that leads to fascism.
> > There's nothing remotely fascist about putting pressure on people to get vaccinated. The US Supreme Court endorsed compulsory vaccination against smallpox back in 1913, back before fascism had been invented - though there was quite a lot of fascist thinking around then.
> >
> > <snip>
>

> Hey Sloman, that decision took us down a rabbit hole that shows how dangerous such mandates can be, even to a brain-dead libtard such as yourself (https://www.history.com/news/smallpox-vaccine-supreme-court):

>
> In a far darker chapter, the Jacobson decision also provided judicial cover for a Virginia law that authorized the involuntary sterilization of “feeble-minded” individuals in state mental institutions. In the 1920s, eugenics enjoyed wide support in scientific and medical circles, and the Supreme Court justices were not immune.

It shouldn't have done. Regression to the mean was known about even then.

Arguing that right-wing nitwits like you and Brent Locher could misuse a sensible decision to justify doing something stupid is a red-herring. You make a habit of making stupid choices for essentially emotional reasons, and you don't let the law get in your way. mainly because you can't understand it properly.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

[Flyguy]

> SL0WMAN, Sydney

Hey SL0WMAN, it is no "red herring" - it is a fact. The Supreme Court decision was wrong and the these subsequent events prove it. It shows what happens when libtards like you are given power you should NEVER have.

[Anthony William Sloman]

> Hey Sloman, it is no "red herring" - it is a fact. The Supreme Court decision was wrong and the these subsequent events prove it.

But you are too stupid to appreciate that the Supreme Court decisions was wrong because feeble minded women don't reliably produce feeble-minded children.
Intelligence is heritable, but there are literally thousands of genes involved, and none of them are dominant. Stupid parents tend to have kids that are less stupid than they are - so there is hope for your kids.

Vaccination works, and it works well enough that not getting vaccinated against and infectious disease is criminally stupid.

> It shows what happens when libtards like you are given power you should NEVER have.

Actually, it shows how rightards like you can't think straight. Give you a set of facts, and you will come to the conclusion that you like - ignoring all the inconvenient facts that show it isn't the right conclusion. The right-wing position is that they want to change the world as little as possible. The left wing position involves looking at all the evidence and thinking about its implications - which isn't a process you can understand at all, and find deeply suspicious.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

[Flyguy]

On Wednesday, September 22, 2021 at 7:48:05 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 12:12:41 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
> > On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 1:42:18 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> > > On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 3:37:53 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 9:39:09 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> > > > > On Monday, September 13, 2021 at 3:59:32 AM UTC+10, blo...@columbus.rr.com wrote:
> > > > > > On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 1:45:53 PM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > > > > > > On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 1:39:05 PM UTC-4, blo...@columbus.rr.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 8:59:07 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On 9/12/2021 5:25 AM, Martin Brown wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On 10/09/2021 22:31, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I am a punk because I cannot shake the absurd outrage that your vaccine will not work if I do not take my vaccine.
> > > > >
> > > > > This doesn't happen to be true, but Brent Locher keeps on repeating it as if he can't understand any of the comments that point out that the fatuous nclaim " your vaccine will not work if I do not take my vaccine" is one that he seems to have invented all by himself.
> > > > >
> > > > > > And to prove it lets fire all the people who refuse the vaccine.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sounds perfectly sensible. Some people (not many) can't be protected by vaccination, and we do need to protect them against potentially infectious idiots who should have got vaccinated but refuse it because they are deluded idiots.
> > > > >
> > > > > > I have not told anyone what to do other than to stop embracing the mind set that leads to fascism.
> > > > > There's nothing remotely fascist about putting pressure on people to get vaccinated. The US Supreme Court endorsed compulsory vaccination against smallpox back in 1913, back before fascism had been invented - though there was quite a lot of fascist thinking around then.
> > > > >
> > > > > <snip>
> > > >
> > > > Hey Sloman, that decision took us down a rabbit hole that shows how dangerous such mandates can be, even to a brain-dead libtard such as yourself (https://www.history.com/news/smallpox-vaccine-supreme-court):
> > > >
> > > > In a far darker chapter, the Jacobson decision also provided judicial cover for a Virginia law that authorized the involuntary sterilization of “feeble-minded” individuals in state mental institutions. In the 1920s, eugenics enjoyed wide support in scientific and medical circles, and the Supreme Court justices were not immune.
> > > It shouldn't have done. Regression to the mean was known about even then.
> > >
> > > Arguing that right-wing nitwits like you and Brent Locher could misuse a sensible decision to justify doing something stupid is a red-herring. You make a habit of making stupid choices for essentially emotional reasons, and you don't let the law get in your way. mainly because you can't understand it properly.
> >
> > Hey Sloman, it is no "red herring" - it is a fact. The Supreme Court decision was wrong and the these subsequent events prove it.
>
> But you are too stupid to appreciate that the Supreme Court decisions was wrong because feeble minded women don't reliably produce feeble-minded children.

Hey SL0WMAN, that decision was wrong, not for the reason you state, but because it is immoral for the State to manipulate the lives of the governed without their knowledge or consent. But that doesn't both libtards such as yourself because you have such an inflated view of your intelligence that you think you libtards know best. Hitler was one of your devotees.

>
> Vaccination works, and it works well enough that not getting vaccinated against and infectious disease is criminally stupid.

So, are you going to put the unvaccinated in jail - it wouldn't surprise EVEN if they had better immunity because of a prior COVID infection.

> > It shows what happens when libtards like you are given power you should NEVER have.
> Actually, it shows how rightards like you can't think straight. Give you a set of facts, and you will come to the conclusion that you like - ignoring all the inconvenient facts that show it isn't the right conclusion. The right-wing position is that they want to change the world as little as possible. The left wing position involves looking at all the evidence and thinking about its implications - which isn't a process you can understand at all, and find deeply suspicious.

"Rightards?" REALLY?? Boy, does that ever roll off the tongue! The libtards are currently in power in the US and look how they have FUCKED UP the country in a few short months. Now, Lyin' Biden has been exposed as a tax cheat after berating others to "pay their fair share!" His best defense: he was too demented to know what he was doing.

[whit3rd]

On Saturday, September 25, 2021 at 7:43:21 PM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 22, 2021 at 7:48:05 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:

> > Vaccination works, and it works well enough that not getting vaccinated against and infectious disease is criminally stupid.

> So, are you going to put the unvaccinated in jail - it wouldn't surprise EVEN if they had better immunity because of a prior COVID infection.

Don't be silly; that 'if they had...' question is unanswerable, so is a perfect example of a lame excuse.
And, incarceration (forced habitation within a crowded building) is at least as stupid as
most cases of vaccine aversion.

There IS NO TEST for degree-of-immunity. There IS NO TEST for 'prior covid infection' that has
much significance; immune response can result from virus fragments that aren't infective.
So, it makes no sense to hang any important decisions on those factors; it's like assuming
luck, or karma, will protect against a plague. You can't test for tomorrow's luck, nor for karmic status, either.

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Sunday, September 26, 2021 at 9:43:21 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 22, 2021 at 7:48:05 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> > On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 12:12:41 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
> > > On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 1:42:18 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 3:37:53 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
> > > > > On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 9:39:09 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> > > > > > On Monday, September 13, 2021 at 3:59:32 AM UTC+10, blo...@columbus.rr.com wrote:
> > > > > > > On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 1:45:53 PM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 1:39:05 PM UTC-4, blo...@columbus.rr.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 8:59:07 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On 9/12/2021 5:25 AM, Martin Brown wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > On 10/09/2021 22:31, Fred Bloggs wrote:

<snip>

> > > > > In a far darker chapter, the Jacobson decision also provided judicial cover for a Virginia law that authorized the involuntary sterilization of “feeble-minded” individuals in state mental institutions. In the 1920s, eugenics enjoyed wide support in scientific and medical circles, and the Supreme Court justices were not immune.
> > > >
> > > > It shouldn't have done. Regression to the mean was known about even then.
> > > >
> > > > Arguing that right-wing nitwits like you and Brent Locher could misuse a sensible decision to justify doing something stupid is a red-herring. You make a habit of making stupid choices for essentially emotional reasons, and you don't let the law get in your way. mainly because you can't understand it properly.
> > >
> > > Hey Sloman, it is no "red herring" - it is a fact. The Supreme Court decision was wrong and the these subsequent events prove it.
> >
> > But you are too stupid to appreciate that the Supreme Court decisions was wrong because feeble minded women don't reliably produce feeble-minded children.
>

> Hey Sloman, that decision was wrong, not for the reason you state, but because it is immoral for the State to manipulate the lives of the governed without their knowledge or consent.

So it was immoral to conscript people into the Army and send them overseas to get shot to defend American democracy?

> But that doesn't both libtards such as yourself because you have such an inflated view of your intelligence that you think you libtards know best.

Knowing better than twits like you is a pretty low bar.

> Hitler was one of your devotees.

I doubt that Hitler was aware that I existed. I was about two and half and living in Tasmania when he died.

His devotion to remarkably silly ideas looks very much like your behavior to me, but this isn't a point of view that you have the wit to comprehend.

> > Vaccination works, and it works well enough that not getting vaccinated against and infectious disease is criminally stupid.
> >
> So, are you going to put the unvaccinated in jail - it wouldn't surprise EVEN if they had better immunity because of a prior COVID infection.

They don't. They may have more antibodies against Covid-19 immediately after they have recovered from a natural Covid-9 infection than a vaccinated person would, but those antibodies will recognise a chunk of the Covid-9 virus capsule that includes a number of spike proteins. This changes more between strains than the highly conserved spike protein itself. The Covid-19 vaccines used in the west use a version of the spike protein as their antigen, and the immunity does seem to work across a wider range of strains.

> > > It shows what happens when libtards like you are given power you should NEVER have.
> >
> > Actually, it shows how rightards like you can't think straight. Give you a set of facts, and you will come to the conclusion that you like - ignoring all the inconvenient facts that show it isn't the right conclusion. The right-wing position is that they want to change the world as little as possible. The left wing position involves looking at all the evidence and thinking about its implications - which isn't a process you can understand at all, and find deeply suspicious.
> >
> "Rightards?" REALLY?? Boy, does that ever roll off the tongue! The libtards are currently in power in the US and look how they have FUCKED UP the country in a few short months.

Not that you can say which features of the US they have degraded since they came to power. Like every other rightard, you are happy to claim that the country is going to hell in handbasket, but are totally incapable of specifying the problem you have in mind.

> Now, Joe Biden has been exposed as a tax cheat after berating others to "pay their fair share!" His best defense: he was too demented to know what he was doing.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/joe-biden-used-tax-code-loophole-obama-tried-to-plug-11562779300

That's the Murdoch press for you. Tax evasion is a crime. Tax avoidance isn't. If the Obama administration had been able to ban that particular manoeuvre, they'd have something to complain about, but presumably it had enough legitimate applications that they couldn't.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

[Flyguy]

On Saturday, September 25, 2021 at 8:03:14 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> On Sunday, September 26, 2021 at 9:43:21 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
> > On Wednesday, September 22, 2021 at 7:48:05 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> > > On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 12:12:41 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 1:42:18 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> > > > > On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 3:37:53 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
> > > > > > On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 9:39:09 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> > > > > > > On Monday, September 13, 2021 at 3:59:32 AM UTC+10, blo...@columbus.rr.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 1:45:53 PM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 1:39:05 PM UTC-4, blo...@columbus.rr.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 8:59:07 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > On 9/12/2021 5:25 AM, Martin Brown wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > On 10/09/2021 22:31, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> <snip>
> > > > > > In a far darker chapter, the Jacobson decision also provided judicial cover for a Virginia law that authorized the involuntary sterilization of “feeble-minded” individuals in state mental institutions. In the 1920s, eugenics enjoyed wide support in scientific and medical circles, and the Supreme Court justices were not immune.
> > > > >
> > > > > It shouldn't have done. Regression to the mean was known about even then.
> > > > >
> > > > > Arguing that right-wing nitwits like you and Brent Locher could misuse a sensible decision to justify doing something stupid is a red-herring. You make a habit of making stupid choices for essentially emotional reasons, and you don't let the law get in your way. mainly because you can't understand it properly.
> > > >
> > > > Hey Sloman, it is no "red herring" - it is a fact. The Supreme Court decision was wrong and the these subsequent events prove it.
> > >
> > > But you are too stupid to appreciate that the Supreme Court decisions was wrong because feeble minded women don't reliably produce feeble-minded children.
> >
> > Hey Sloman, that decision was wrong, not for the reason you state, but because it is immoral for the State to manipulate the lives of the governed without their knowledge or consent.
>
> So it was immoral to conscript people into the Army and send them overseas to get shot to defend American democracy?

Different issue and you know it - society agrees on the draft, but didn't on experimenting on Blacks with dangerous diseases and enforced sterilization.

> > But that doesn't both libtards such as yourself because you have such an inflated view of your intelligence that you think you libtards know best.
> Knowing better than twits like you is a pretty low bar.

You prove my point - you think you KNOW BETTER than the rest of us. NEWS FLASH: YOU DON'T!!

> > Hitler was one of your devotees.
> I doubt that Hitler was aware that I existed. I was about two and half and living in Tasmania when he died.

A devotee to the libtard creed that you cling to.

>
> His devotion to remarkably silly ideas looks very much like your behavior to me, but this isn't a point of view that you have the wit to comprehend.

No, it is YOUR silly ideas.

> > > Vaccination works, and it works well enough that not getting vaccinated against and infectious disease is criminally stupid.
> > >
> > So, are you going to put the unvaccinated in jail - it wouldn't surprise EVEN if they had better immunity because of a prior COVID infection.
> They don't. They may have more antibodies against Covid-19 immediately after they have recovered from a natural Covid-9 infection than a vaccinated person would, but those antibodies will recognise a chunk of the Covid-9 virus capsule that includes a number of spike proteins. This changes more between strains than the highly conserved spike protein itself. The Covid-19 vaccines used in the west use a version of the spike protein as their antigen, and the immunity does seem to work across a wider range of strains.

You called it "criminal behavior" you turd - criminal means you lock people up for it. Do you now have a change of mind?

> > > > It shows what happens when libtards like you are given power you should NEVER have.
> > >
> > > Actually, it shows how rightards like you can't think straight. Give you a set of facts, and you will come to the conclusion that you like - ignoring all the inconvenient facts that show it isn't the right conclusion. The right-wing position is that they want to change the world as little as possible. The left wing position involves looking at all the evidence and thinking about its implications - which isn't a process you can understand at all, and find deeply suspicious.
> > >
> > "Rightards?" REALLY?? Boy, does that ever roll off the tongue! The libtards are currently in power in the US and look how they have FUCKED UP the country in a few short months.
> Not that you can say which features of the US they have degraded since they came to power. Like every other rightard, you are happy to claim that the country is going to hell in handbasket, but are totally incapable of specifying the problem you have in mind.

It's a long list that everyone in the US is very aware of (especially Afghanistan) - it's why Lyin' Biden's polls are in the toilet.

>
> > Now, Joe Biden has been exposed as a tax cheat after berating others to "pay their fair share!" His best defense: he was too demented to know what he was doing.
>
> https://www.wsj.com/articles/joe-biden-used-tax-code-loophole-obama-tried-to-plug-11562779300
>
> That's the Murdoch press for you. Tax evasion is a crime. Tax avoidance isn't. If the Obama administration had been able to ban that particular manoeuvre, they'd have something to complain about, but presumably it had enough legitimate applications that they couldn't.

Still can't spell, I see. The WSJ reports the facts, something that is foreign to you. Lyin' Biden EVADED taxes, he didn't AVOID them - avoidance is the LEGAL manipulation of a tax situation (like taken a casualty loss or R&D tax credit) that Lyin' Biden says is unfair..

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Sunday, September 26, 2021 at 1:22:15 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
> On Saturday, September 25, 2021 at 8:03:14 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> > On Sunday, September 26, 2021 at 9:43:21 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, September 22, 2021 at 7:48:05 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 12:12:41 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
> > > > > On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 1:42:18 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> > > > > > On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 3:37:53 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
> > > > > > > On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 9:39:09 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Monday, September 13, 2021 at 3:59:32 AM UTC+10, blo...@columbus.rr.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 1:45:53 PM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 1:39:05 PM UTC-4, blo...@columbus.rr.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > On Sunday, September 12, 2021 at 8:59:07 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > On 9/12/2021 5:25 AM, Martin Brown wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > On 10/09/2021 22:31, Fred Bloggs wrote:

<snip>

> > > Hey Sloman, that decision was wrong, not for the reason you state, but because it is immoral for the State to manipulate the lives of the governed without their knowledge or consent.
> >
> > So it was immoral to conscript people into the Army and send them overseas to get shot to defend American democracy?
>
> Different issue and you know it - society agrees on the draft, but didn't on experimenting on Blacks with dangerous diseases and enforced sterilization.

At the time society was perfectly happy with enforced sterilsation. That didn't make it moral.

> > > But that doesn't both libtards such as yourself because you have such an inflated view of your intelligence that you think you libtards know best.
> >
> > Knowing better than twits like you is a pretty low bar.
>
> You prove my point - you think you KNOW BETTER than the rest of us. NEWS FLASH: YOU DON'T!!

I know I know better than you do. Few other people are clearly mentally defective as you are, so I'm being realistic, rather than arrogant.

> > > Hitler was one of your devotees.
> >
> > I doubt that Hitler was aware that I existed. I was about two and half and living in Tasmania when he died.
>
> A devotee to the libtard creed that you cling to.

Hitler is generally seen as a deluded - if intelligent - right-winger. You seem to be just as deluded as he was, but much less intelligent

> > His devotion to remarkably silly ideas looks very much like your behavior to me, but this isn't a point of view that you have the wit to comprehend.
>
> No, it is YOUR silly ideas.

That is a very silly idea.

> > > > Vaccination works, and it works well enough that not getting vaccinated against and infectious disease is criminally stupid.
> > > >
> > > So, are you going to put the unvaccinated in jail - it wouldn't surprise EVEN if they had better immunity because of a prior COVID infection.
> >
> > They don't. They may have more antibodies against Covid-19 immediately after they have recovered from a natural Covid-9 infection than a vaccinated person would, but those antibodies will recognise a chunk of the Covid-9 virus capsule that includes a number of spike proteins. This changes more between strains than the highly conserved spike protein itself. The Covid-19 vaccines used in the west use a version of the spike protein as their antigen, and the immunity does seem to work across a wider range of strains.
>
> You called it "criminal behavior" you turd - criminal means you lock people up for it. Do you now have a change of mind?

Are you old enough to remember tuberculosis? If you caught the disease you got locked up in a sanitorium until you died of it or got cured.

Streptomycin was the first drug that was effective against it - it was discovered in 1943, but didn't start getting used on patients until about five years later. Bob Dole seems to have been the first patient where the cure worked well.

https://www.amazon.com/Plague-I-Betty-MacDonald/dp/0295999780

is about the author;s year in a sanitorium in the 1930's.

> > > > > It shows what happens when libtards like you are given power you should NEVER have.
> > > >
> > > > Actually, it shows how rightards like you can't think straight. Give you a set of facts, and you will come to the conclusion that you like - ignoring all the inconvenient facts that show it isn't the right conclusion. The right-wing position is that they want to change the world as little as possible. The left wing position involves looking at all the evidence and thinking about its implications - which isn't a process you can understand at all, and find deeply suspicious.
> > > >
> > > "Rightards?" REALLY?? Boy, does that ever roll off the tongue! The libtards are currently in power in the US and look how they have FUCKED UP the country in a few short months.
>
> > Not that you can say which features of the US they have degraded since they came to power. Like every other rightard, you are happy to claim that the country is going to hell in handbasket, but are totally incapable of specifying the problem you have in mind.
>

> It's a long list that everyone in the US is very aware of (especially Afghanistan) - it's why Joe Biden's polls are in the toilet.

Afghanistan is just one of the disasters that George W. Bush wished on America. It doesn't even belong on the list that you claim exists, but can't be bothered to spell, mainly because it doesn't exist.

> >
> > > Now, Joe Biden has been exposed as a tax cheat after berating others to "pay their fair share!" His best defense: he was too demented to know what he was doing.
> >
> > https://www.wsj.com/articles/joe-biden-used-tax-code-loophole-obama-tried-to-plug-11562779300
> >
> > That's the Murdoch press for you. Tax evasion is a crime. Tax avoidance isn't. If the Obama administration had been able to ban that particular manoeuvre, they'd have something to complain about, but presumably it had enough legitimate applications that they couldn't.
>
> Still can't spell, I see.

That is the way the way the French and the English spell the word. The Cambridge dictionary lists "maneuver" as the American spelling. Noam Webster has a lot to answer for.

> The WSJ reports the facts, something that is foreign to you.

The Murdoch press does report some of the facts - the ones that suit their point of view. They are prone to leave the inconvenient ones that don't - in this case the point that what Biden is doing is perfectly legal.

> Joe Biden EVADED taxes, he didn't AVOID them - avoidance is the LEGAL manipulation of a tax situation (like taken a casualty loss or R&D tax credit) that Joe Biden says is unfair.

The Obama administration would have liked to block that particular loophole, but - in the end - they didn't. If everybody else can exploit it, it isn't fair to Joe Biden to claim that he shouldn't.

If what Joe Biden is doing is illegal, why isn't he being prosecuted? The Rupert Murdoch, who owns the Wall Street Journal, has enough money and influence to get such as prosecution launched. Oddly, he seems to have settled for published a slanted report designed to make Joe Biden look bad.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney