Motorola HEP semiconductors.

[Ian Field]

Recently I came by archives of various American electronics magezines.

There are numerous projects that list Motorola HEP semiconductors.

Just out of curiosity - is HEP an abreviation?

Any sources of data might come in handy for reviving a few old projects that
might be possible to modify for silicon devices.

Thanks.

[Mark Zenier]

In article <eeMdw.1629$mp2....@fx01.am4>,

"Hobbyist, Experimenter, Professional"

It was late enough that most of the parts were silicon.

It was a combination of a universal replacement parts line along with some
interesting parts like some early single chip audio amps, digital dividers,
and the like. Some stuff to fix stuff with, some stuff to play with.
A selection similar to the parts section of a Radio Shack (of a couple of
years later), targeted at the pegboard section of the then commmon local
radio parts store.

Those old ICs (single sourced from Motorola) are long gone, but most of
the discrete parts would have NTE equivalents.


Mark Zenier mze...@eskimo.com
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)

[Ian Field]

"Mark Zenier" <mze...@eskimo.com> wrote in message
news:m5cqt...@enews4.newsguy.com...

> In article <eeMdw.1629$mp2....@fx01.am4>,
> Ian Field <gangprob...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>Recently I came by archives of various American electronics magezines.
>>
>>There are numerous projects that list Motorola HEP semiconductors.
>>
>>Just out of curiosity - is HEP an abreviation?
>>
>>Any sources of data might come in handy for reviving a few old projects
>>that
>>might be possible to modify for silicon devices.
>
> "Hobbyist, Experimenter, Professional"
>
> It was late enough that most of the parts were silicon.

Thanks.

As it happens, as I read my way through the archive of Popular Electronics,
I stumbled upon a page announcing the end of HEP parts - this was the first
and only time I'd seen the definition in print.

That was only a few hours after posting my question.

Any ideas where to look for data/cross-reference? It might be interesting to
revive some of those old projects.

[David Snowdon]

Want to spend some money? For $15 ($10 + $5 shipping):

1977 Motorola HEP Program Semiconductor Cross Reference Guide and Catalog

http://www.abebooks.com/Motorola-HEP-Program-Semiconductor-Croos-Reference/11055280392/bd



By the way, there were two numbering systems for transistors in the HEP
line. For a conversion chart:

http://www.electronicspoint.com/threads/motorola-hep-old-numbers-to-newer-numbers.248851/

David

--

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This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

[Ian Field]

"David Snowdon" <nor...@netscape.ca> wrote in message
news:m5djmh$v1e$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

> Want to spend some money? For $15 ($10 + $5 shipping):
>
> 1977 Motorola HEP Program Semiconductor Cross Reference Guide and Catalog
>
> http://www.abebooks.com/Motorola-HEP-Program-Semiconductor-Croos-Reference/11055280392/bd
>
>
>
> By the way, there were two numbering systems for transistors in the HEP
> line. For a conversion chart:
>
> http://www.electronicspoint.com/threads/motorola-hep-old-numbers-to-newer-numbers.248851/

Thanks - that could save a bit of confusion should I find a cross reference
to mainstream parts.

[Michael Black]

You could ask.

I'm not prepared to give up my HEP replacement guides, or scan them, but
if you happened to ask in the newsgroup what HEP-XXX was, I'd probably be
inclined to look it up. There was a time when I did that quite a bit, but
the internet has evolved quite a bit since 1994, and there are fewer
questions like that, I assume because some of the old databooks have been
scanned.

Those old construction articles, people would specify what was available.
It was never clear if they actually used the specified parts, or just
listed parts that could be had easily. As I've said in the past, there
were a relatively small subset of transistors and diodes used in the hobby
magazines (and I gather a similar but different subset in the UK
magazines), though I was never sure which came first? SOmeone had to
pick a specific device at some point, all those 2N706s and later 2N2222s,
but once they were used, the hobby stores would carry them, which caused
others to specify them.

HEP was like that, a line that often was available in local outlets, but
really quite expensive. I remember telling a friend in high school that
he could just get a cheap op-amp for that lie detector he was building out
of Popular Science (around 1974), and he said "I don't want to make any
mistakes", so he paid the premium for the HEP numbered device, since the
article didn't say anything about the IC except the HEP part number. I
don't know if the author used a cheap op-amp in the original, and then
specified the HEP replacement because it would be easier to get, or if he
actually bought the HEP device to begin with. In that case, it was a
generic op-amp, much easier to be sure than a transistor in the line.

The HEP line was different from the NTE and ECG line that came later. It
was a Motorola only line. SO they had some exotic Motorola ICs (some came
in very odd packages, so you knew that it really was a Motorola device),
but if it wasn't made by Motorola, you'd get some line about "approximate
substitution", ie a workalike. That was fine for logic gates and op-amps,
but it fell apart with really specific parts. NTE and ECG tried to cover
everything, their line was much larger as was their replacement guide. So
if nothing else, the ECG and NTE guides were better at telling you what
the device was, which is all I ever used the HEP replacement guide for.

The HEP line was relatively small when it started, really aimed more at
the hobbyist, then got larger a couple of years later. But it was still
for the hobbyist or at least professional prototyper, it wasn't extensive
enough for the serviceman when it came to ICs. It also wasn't uncommon to
find errors in the guide, clearly not the right replacement for a specific
device.

What year wsa the announcement that the line was shutting down? I never
saw that, and I was still reading Popular Electronics, though mabye
sporadically, when it changed it's name and some of its format before
dying about 1984. I was never aware that the HEP line had shutdown, only
an assumption that it must have at some point, but never aware of when.

Michael

[Mark Zenier]

In article <t7new.29186$Za1...@fx22.am4>,

Ian Field <gangprob...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

>Any ideas where to look for data/cross-reference? It might be interesting to
>revive some of those old projects.

The NTE cross reference book I have has a page and a half of HEP numbers.
With the generic nature of "universal replacement", probably "close
enough".

[mrob...@att.net]

Mark Zenier <mze...@eskimo.com> wrote:
> In article <t7new.29186$Za1...@fx22.am4>,
> Ian Field <gangprob...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>> Any ideas where to look for data/cross-reference? It might be
>> interesting to revive some of those old projects.
>
> The NTE cross reference book I have has a page and a half of HEP
> numbers. With the generic nature of "universal replacement",
> probably "close enough".

This reminded me that I have a 1987 "Semiconductor Reference Guide" from
Radio Shack (USA). It lists a few HEP numbers, but just the ones that
crossed to then-current Radio Shack parts. From this limited set of
data, the HEP part number scheme appears to have been, roughly...

HEPnnn transistors - mostly Si?
HEPCnnnn ICs
HEPGnnn transistors - Ge?
HEPPnnn various: one transistor, one optocoupler
HEPRnnn rectifier diodes
HEPSnnn transistors - mostly Si?
HEPZnnn Zener diodes

I scanned the two pages of cross-reference, plus one page of decoder
ring. The first two pages will cross an HEPnnn number to a 276-nnnn
Radio Shack catalog number. The third page crosses the 276-nnnn number
to a standard part number. PDF at: http://birdbird.org/tmp/hep.pdf

I hope this helps!

Matt Roberds

[Ian Field]

<mrob...@att.net> wrote in message news:m5m8ia$2jq$1...@dont-email.me...

Thanks.

[kilowatt]

The HEP refers to the RCA line of replacement semiconductors, called Hobby Electronic Product HEP

Large catalog of subs and generics. I have a copy in my Libr. If your list is not too long I could look up a few pt no.s

JS

*********

[Michael A. Terrell]

kilowatt wrote:
>
> The HEP refers to the RCA line of replacement semiconductors, called Hobby Electronic Product HEP
>
> Large catalog of subs and generics. I have a copy in my Libr. If your list is not too long I could look up a few pt no.s
>

No, HEP was Motorola. RCA was SK.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

[Ian Field]

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:4PKdnTPg6vwFkhnJ...@earthlink.com...

>
> kilowatt wrote:
>>
>> The HEP refers to the RCA line of replacement semiconductors, called
>> Hobby Electronic Product HEP
>>
>> Large catalog of subs and generics. I have a copy in my Libr. If your
>> list is not too long I could look up a few pt no.s
>>
>
>
> No, HEP was Motorola. RCA was SK.

That reminds me - an SK reference would also come in handy, those parts turn
up fairly often in the Indian magazine; Electronics For You.

[Michael Black]

I don't think I ever saw an SK guide. They existed, but I just never saw
one. They were never used that much, at the moment I'm finding it hard to
think of where I'd have seen them. THe HEP did get referenced in
magazines.

I have a lot of RCA databooks, I knew someone who worked at RCA in the
seventies, but I don't think any of the databooks mention SK.

Michael

[Michael A. Terrell]

We used ECG, GE, HEP, NTE, SK and Workman in the shops where I lived
and worked in the '70s. The SK cross reference was as thick as the ECG.
There were several RCA distributors in our area, so the SK line was easy
to get. ECG was the best stocked, and most preferred. GE had the lowest
quality, just like the semiconductors they used in their consumer
products. Some of the floor sweepings from Poly Paks were better than
the GE replacement line.

SK was repair parts, not OEM

[Mark Zenier]

In article <alpine.LNX.2.02.1...@darkstar.example.org>,

Michael Black <et...@ncf.ca> wrote:
>On Sun, 7 Dec 2014, Ian Field wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>> news:4PKdnTPg6vwFkhnJ...@earthlink.com...
>>>
>>> kilowatt wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The HEP refers to the RCA line of replacement semiconductors, called Hobby
>>>> Electronic Product HEP
>>>>
>>>> Large catalog of subs and generics. I have a copy in my Libr. If your list
>>>> is not too long I could look up a few pt no.s
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No, HEP was Motorola. RCA was SK.
>>
>>
>> That reminds me - an SK reference would also come in handy, those parts turn
>> up fairly often in the Indian magazine; Electronics For You.
>>
>I don't think I ever saw an SK guide. They existed, but I just never saw
>one. They were never used that much, at the moment I'm finding it hard to
>think of where I'd have seen them. THe HEP did get referenced in
>magazines.

They were like the ECG and NTE "phonebooks", but I only saw them at the
electronics stores. They probably didn't make as big a deal about
selling them as ECG/NTE did.

I've even got a NTE floppy disk with the cross reference database lookup
on it, for MS-DOS. Looked at the data to see if the data could be
extracted so I could run a reverse sort, but it was encrypted/compressed
in some non-trivial way.

>I have a lot of RCA databooks, I knew someone who worked at RCA in the
>seventies, but I don't think any of the databooks mention SK.

Wasn't it part of the TV manufacturing, not the Semiconductor division?
I vaguely remember that the SK stuff was under Thomson for a while.

[Michael Black]

On Mon, 8 Dec 2014, Mark Zenier wrote:

> In article <alpine.LNX.2.02.1...@darkstar.example.org>,
> Michael Black <et...@ncf.ca> wrote:
>> On Sun, 7 Dec 2014, Ian Field wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>> news:4PKdnTPg6vwFkhnJ...@earthlink.com...
>>>>
>>>> kilowatt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> The HEP refers to the RCA line of replacement semiconductors, called Hobby
>>>>> Electronic Product HEP
>>>>>
>>>>> Large catalog of subs and generics. I have a copy in my Libr. If your list
>>>>> is not too long I could look up a few pt no.s
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No, HEP was Motorola. RCA was SK.
>>>
>>>
>>> That reminds me - an SK reference would also come in handy, those parts turn
>>> up fairly often in the Indian magazine; Electronics For You.
>>>
>> I don't think I ever saw an SK guide. They existed, but I just never saw
>> one. They were never used that much, at the moment I'm finding it hard to
>> think of where I'd have seen them. THe HEP did get referenced in
>> magazines.
>
> They were like the ECG and NTE "phonebooks", but I only saw them at the
> electronics stores. They probably didn't make as big a deal about
> selling them as ECG/NTE did.
>

Probably. I got my HEP guides for free, circling one of those cards
in the hobby magazines. I paid for my ECG or NET guide, they were on
display at one of the local parts stores. Not a whole lot, but I suppose
if they put a price on it, people will take more care of it. But I didnt'
see an ECG or NET guide until later, probably the eighties. I'm not sure
when they started, but maybe that too was because the HEP line was very
much aimed at hobbyists.

> I've even got a NTE floppy disk with the cross reference database lookup
> on it, for MS-DOS. Looked at the data to see if the data could be
> extracted so I could run a reverse sort, but it was encrypted/compressed
> in some non-trivial way.
>

I remember that, I may even have the floppy. It was long enough ago that
it was "cutting edge", now it's quaint, why have a local copy when it's on
the internet.

I'm pretty sure I never bought an HEP device. But I got the HEP guide
about 1974, and I found it fairly useful, look up a device to get the
general specs, then go through my drawer of scrap transistors to find one
that crossed. At least it gave me a general idea of whether something wsa
a UHF device or not. But later when I got an ECG or NTE guide, I realized
the HEP transistors substitutes had to be fairly vague, since HEP had
relatively few devices.

>> I have a lot of RCA databooks, I knew someone who worked at RCA in the
>> seventies, but I don't think any of the databooks mention SK.
>
> Wasn't it part of the TV manufacturing, not the Semiconductor division?
> I vaguely remember that the SK stuff was under Thomson for a while.
>

Maybe. But I remember SK was around earlier. It may have simply been
intended for the repair business, not marketted to hobbyists like the HEP
line. That would make a big difference, even to the guides being in
limited distribution.

Michael

[Ian Field]

"Michael Black" <et...@ncf.ca> wrote in message
news:alpine.LNX.2.02.1...@darkstar.example.org...

Not anywhere I've looked so far!

[Michael Black]

We're talking about the ECG/NTE line. I forget the URL, but it was online
the last time I checked. It may not be perfect, I found it often wasn't
easy to get a match (so I wonder if it is looking for an exact match),
but it was there.

HEP closed down before there wsa much of an online, and probably before
floppies were cheap enough to put a catalog on one.

Michael

[Ian Field]

There's a collection of NTE data somewhere on my other PC - a search for ECG
got me mostly stuff about heart machines etc.

[Michael Black]

www.nteinc.com would seem to be what I was thinking of.

A search with "ecg replacement guide" shows a few sites indicating they
have replacement guide in a pdf, so that might be something to pursue.
I'm not sure how handy a pdf is, but it would have the specs for the
devices (and the pinouts of the ICs) in a complete place.

Michael

[Cydrome Leader]

the SK series was for repairs. They printed fat one-way cross reference
books. Sometimes the "equivalent" was fine, sometimes it wasn't even
close. You never really knew what the part they sold you really was. There
was quite a bit of electrically equivalent but different physical case
issues too. You were warned about that though. There's got to be like a
half dozen plastic cases that sort of replace to3 cans for example.

[Michael A. Terrell]

Cydrome Leader wrote:
>
> the SK series was for repairs. They printed fat one-way cross reference
> books. Sometimes the "equivalent" was fine, sometimes it wasn't even
> close. You never really knew what the part they sold you really was. There
> was quite a bit of electrically equivalent but different physical case
> issues too. You were warned about that though. There's got to be like a
> half dozen plastic cases that sort of replace to3 cans for example.

Part of that problem was more than one manufacturer used the same
part number for different devices.