EDIF: How far is it?

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Joerg

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Mar 8, 2005, 4:47:45 PM3/8/05
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Hello All,

Here we go again: Cadsoft Eagle on this side and another company using
Orcad, meaning we cannot exchange files other than through bitmaps or
other not so suitable formats.

Where does EDIF stand? Is there a chance that some day people will
really be able to exchange schematics and other drawings between
different platforms?

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

Leon Heller

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Mar 8, 2005, 5:08:36 PM3/8/05
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"Joerg" <notthis...@removethispacbell.net> wrote in message
news:54pXd.12621$Pz7....@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...

> Hello All,
>
> Here we go again: Cadsoft Eagle on this side and another company using
> Orcad, meaning we cannot exchange files other than through bitmaps or
> other not so suitable formats.
>
> Where does EDIF stand? Is there a chance that some day people will really
> be able to exchange schematics and other drawings between different
> platforms?

The Pulsonix software I use can import EDIF files.

Leon
--
Leon Heller, G1HSM
http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller


Joerg

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Mar 8, 2005, 6:12:25 PM3/8/05
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Hello Leon,

> The Pulsonix software I use can import EDIF files.

That is great. Question: Did you ever try it for schematics? If yes,
from which other package were they?

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

JeffM

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Mar 8, 2005, 11:48:14 PM3/8/05
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>Cadsoft Eagle...and...Orcad
>we cannot exchange files other than through...not so suitable formats.

>
>Where does EDIF stand? Is there a chance that
>some day people will really be able to exchange schematics
>and other drawings between different platforms?
> Joerg

This doesn't answer that question,
but have you posed your problem to these folks?
http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:XERL1SYxalsJ:www.rsi-inc.com/prods_camcadpcbtrans.aspx+orcad+PADS+Allegro+Mentor+Accel
http://www.adeon.nl/CADtoCAD-Translators.html

Leon Heller

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Mar 9, 2005, 3:25:06 AM3/9/05
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"Joerg" <notthis...@removethispacbell.net> wrote in message
news:tjqXd.5412$C47....@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...

> Hello Leon,
>
>> The Pulsonix software I use can import EDIF files.
>
> That is great. Question: Did you ever try it for schematics? If yes, from
> which other package were they?

I've never tried it, I don't have any EDIF files (not for schematics,
anyway).

Here is the complete list, from the import Help:

a.. P-CAD - PCB design PDIF (*.pdf)
a.. Accel - PCB netlist (*.net)
a.. PADS - PCB design (*.asc)
a.. OrCAD EDIF - Netlist (*.net)
a.. OrCAD II DOS PCB Netlist (*.net)
a.. Cadstar - PCB netlist (*.cpa)
a.. Viewdraw EDIF netlist (*.net)
a.. Viewdraw PAckage file netlist (*.pkg)
a.. EDIF 2.0.0 netlist (*.net)

Leon


Joerg

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Mar 9, 2005, 12:29:15 PM3/9/05
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Hello Jeff,

There are several translation SW providers like these. But they
concentrate on transferring layout data and also netlists, not schematics.

Netlists in itself are easy. Eagle, for example, has numerous
translation tools. Layout info is more tedious and translation can cost
quite a bundle.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

Joerg

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Mar 9, 2005, 12:39:20 PM3/9/05
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Hello Leon,

> I've never tried it, I don't have any EDIF files (not for schematics,
> anyway).
>
> Here is the complete list, from the import Help:
>
> a.. P-CAD - PCB design PDIF (*.pdf)
> a.. Accel - PCB netlist (*.net)
> a.. PADS - PCB design (*.asc)
> a.. OrCAD EDIF - Netlist (*.net)
> a.. OrCAD II DOS PCB Netlist (*.net)
> a.. Cadstar - PCB netlist (*.cpa)
> a.. Viewdraw EDIF netlist (*.net)
> a.. Viewdraw PAckage file netlist (*.pkg)
> a.. EDIF 2.0.0 netlist (*.net)

Well, except for PADS these are netlists. Most CAD programs including
Cadsoft Eagle can deal with foreign netlists. Ok, I don't have a Menu
item like you do with Pulsonix. I'd have to run a little user language
program but that would be no problem since it can be started right from
the GUI. However, all this will not transfer a schematic one-to-one.
IOW, you'd have to place the parts and draw most of the remainder again,
almost from scratch. Then when you hand it back the other side has to do
the same. Again.

I wonder what Edif is all about if we can't even exchange schematics. I
mean, even in the highly competitive office software market a document
tranfer between MS-Office, Word Perfect, Open Office and others is
possible almost without a hitch. Not so in CAD.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

Jim Thompson

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Mar 9, 2005, 12:48:42 PM3/9/05
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EDIF was created by an industry COMMITTEE. Need I say more ?:-)

Schematic Software companies don't want you to be able to translate
between tools. Everyone is supposed to use only their tool.

Having to confront this problem almost on a daily basis I find that
you can get it done thru a 3rd party service, but at a rather nasty
cost.

My clients and I generally dodge the problem by using netlist
comparators.

I have also have some gimmicks of my own that allow me to just plunk
down a block and pull in the client's portion of the chip design via a
netlist.

Of course everyone's netlist has it's peculiarities, particularly in
the ASIC business, so there can be some substantial fine tuning
required. A good search and replace editor, like UltraEdit, helps a
lot.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Joerg

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Mar 9, 2005, 1:13:10 PM3/9/05
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Hello Jim,

> EDIF was created by an industry COMMITTEE. Need I say more ?:-)

ROFL...

> Schematic Software companies don't want you to be able to translate
> between tools. Everyone is supposed to use only their tool.

They seem to be in a ferocious turf battle. I don't think turf battles
make a lot of sense. Like the old fashioned VAR sales strategy but at
least that could be circumvented by buying in another country where the
price was right.

> My clients and I generally dodge the problem by using netlist
> comparators.

With analog schematics it is almost the same effort to just draw the
whole thing again from scratch. With ASIC that's different, to an
extent. When I did a mux chip I was very lucky, the layout and device
experts used the same CAD. Else it would have been days of extra grunt work.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

JeffM

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Mar 9, 2005, 7:56:16 PM3/9/05
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>Most CAD programs...can deal with foreign netlists...

>However, all this will not transfer a schematic one-to-one.
>
>even in the highly competitive office software market
>a document tranfer between MS-Office, [WordPerfect], Open Office and

others
>is possible almost without a hitch.
> Joerg
>
Only because they all realized that M$ was the big dog
and learned to deal with its format. (In OOo's case, better than M$.)
If there was a 90% market-share ECAD corp., the same would apply.
As it is, they all think that they're Microsoft.


>tranfer between MS-Office, [WordPerfect]...is possible. Not so in CAD.
>
I've learned to just accept that "Life sucks, then you die".
Seek out open source software solutions where possible
and give your money to the least-evil vendor otherwise.

Joerg

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Mar 9, 2005, 8:31:18 PM3/9/05
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Hello Jeff,

> If there was a 90% market-share ECAD corp., the same would apply.
> As it is, they all think that they're Microsoft.

ROFL! That was a good one.

But they have to watch out. Look what happened with Spice. In the 80's
everyone wanted oodles of money for a decent package. Now there is
LTSpice. For free, and it's good enough for probably about 90% of
engineers who need to simulate.

> I've learned to just accept that "Life sucks, then you die".

Actually, life is good...

> Seek out open source software solutions where possible
> and give your money to the least-evil vendor otherwise.

Well, that's one reason why I switched to Cadsoft. Their pricing is so
much better than most others and the package is nicely integrated. It
doesn't have a direct simulator link but so far I can live with that. My
old Orcad doesn't have that either.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

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