Re: PCB cad software review
Clarence
"Bob Stephens" <stephensyo...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:14zia66dvctxw$.cp0mrduzs3mc.dlg@40tude.net...
> On 14 Oct 2004 09:10:18 -0700, GrantM. wrote:
>
> > P.S. I really got to like the ruler in Protel, use it all the time.
>
> Ruler?
> What Ruler?
IN the PCB window, click on "REPORTS" and select on the pull down menu "Measure
Distance" to get what he, like many others call the ruler. POINT-TO POINT
measurement in whichever measurement units you selected.
DJ Delorie
gr...@solarbotics.com (GrantM.) writes:
> So are there any other sub (or close) $1000 PCB programs that you have
> experience with?
Bob Stephens
Yeah. Control-M does the same thing. When he said "ruler" I thought he
meant "ruler"... Thought I might have missed something.
Paul Burridge
demo version and it's pretty neat, I must say.
Check it out here:
"What is now proved was once only imagin'd." - William Blake, 1793.
Hal Murray
>interface to be bang on. My biggest complaint is the lack of a "ruler"
>all measurements depend on a grid system, perhaps I am wrong though? I
>think I could live with the interface but it keeps me searching.
I don't know what a Ruler is. I'm guessing it's a way to measure
distances between two points.
Eagle has a Mark command. That's the starting point of a ruler.
Then when you move the mouse, the info window shows both the
absolute coordinates but also the coordinates relative to the Mark.
Look at the help page for more info.
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Paul Burke
> I have been looking at Eagle, Easy PC, FreePCB.
>
> I have given Easy PC a brief try and my initial impression is that it
> is a scaled down version of Protel, not quite as feature rich or
> polished but nice and easy to use (and inclueds a ruler!). Opinions on
> this program?
>
I've used EasyPC for about 4 years now, and for the fairly small amount
of PCB work I do (I'm a 6.3mm Jack of all trades) it started as
satisfactory, and the annual upgrades and frequent bugfixes have made it
pretty good in that period. Particularly nice features are the ease of
creating new components, and the good copper fill facilities.
It has got shortcomings- save your work FREQUENTLY, as it's liable to
crash, though much less so than when I first met it- and some basic
limitations, the most annoying of which to me are:
- no hierarchical schematics, and poor way of dealing with multisheet
schematics, like a multi- gate IC has to be all on one sheet.
- No proper back annotation. Though you can rename nets or components on
the PCB, and swap connections, you can't add a net or component to the
PCB and have it appear on the schematic.
- some real annoyances about second- guessing you as regards tracks and
vias. There seems to be no way of reliably introducing multiple vias
e.g. for power tracks- you have to add holes, which then don't move as
you edit the track.
The autorouter is no better than it ought to be.
But all said, for the price it's very good.
Paul Burke
-
GrantM.
> Pulsonix takes some beating. I've recently been trying out the new
> demo version and it's pretty neat, I must say.
> Check it out here:
>
> www.pulsonix.com
I have taken a look at Pulsonix, looks nice but it's in the same price
range as protel, overkill for what we require. Still looking at the
Sub $1000 range.
GrantM.
Hal Murray
>then M for measure. Snap to the center of a hole and measure the
>distance to another hole, give x distance, y distance and total
>distance. Err any way of snapping to the center of a hole in Eagle?
The Eagle mouse works on the current grid. If your holes are on-grid
you get an automatic snap. If not, you need to adjust the grid.
(There may be other/better ways. That's all I know.)
GrantM.
I tried the demo of EasyPC and it is quite nice to use, looks perfect
for what we need and the price is very decent. Lower cost than Eagle
and far easier to use.
I think if they had a free version comparable to what Eagle has, they
would hold the lion's share of the hobbyist market.
Thanks for the feedback.
GrantM.
JeffM
>
>adjust the grid
> Hal Murray
Don't forget to set it back immediately...or at least before changing anything.
(The frustrated voice of experience.)
Markus Baertschi
> I think if they had a free version comparable to what Eagle has, they
> would hold the lion's share of the hobbyist market.
I think you are right on the (sore) spot. As a hobbyist (without a $1000
budget just for drawing my schematics / PCB's) I'm using Eagle as there
is nothing else out there for the same price. For a product I actually
like and was able to _use_ (not too crippled) the free version for a
while I'd shell out $100 or so.
The functionality of Eagle is fine, even the free version allows you to
get a small project done. Unfortunately the interface sucks. On the
other hand the provided newsgroups are great and an excellent source of
support.
Once every two years I go out and download a couple of demos to see if
this has changed. Unfortunately in the last ten years this was not the case.
Markus
Henk Boonsma
"GrantM." <gr...@solarbotics.com> wrote in message
news:f30e7a62.04101...@posting.google.com...
> I know various iteration of this question have been asked before but
> it's still a good thread to follow.
>
> I personally have been using Protel for a few years and have been
> quite happy with it. As much as I have read about it's instability
> it's a rare day that it crashes and usually thats due to other factors
> (running *way* to many programs on the same computer) and thats on
> four different systems over four years. I found it to be a quick,
> intuitive program that has tons of power under it's relativly simple
> interface. The only problem is the price... $7995 USD.
>
Protel sucks. If you spent that kind of money on a program, you're not
likely to toss it in the Recycle Bin, no matter how bad it is. I guess that
Protel is decent, but so are many other packages, such as Eagle (which I
use). I guess that Protel users are simply fooling themselves into thinking
that something that expensive MUST be good. Well it ain't. There are plenty
of good low-cost and even free CAE programs out there.
Don Prescott
> this has changed. Unfortunately in the last ten years this was not the case.
>
> Markus
This is the way of things with many PCB software packages these days -
there's obviously little or no development going into them. Easy-PC
is one of the few low-cost packages that seems to still develop the
product.
Prescott
BEVERNON
>From: DMBPr...@aol.com (Don Prescott)
>Date: 10/23/04 12:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <7fb54666.04102...@posting.google.com>
Development takes time and costs money. A lot of the low cost (affordable)
packages are being squeezed out because of the availability of the free
packages. I certainly couldn't afford to continue to develop a package under
those conditions.
It doesn't always matter if the affordable package offers options that are not
available for free, what seems to matter is the $$$. So, why develop?
If you want high quality, free software, buy a computer (200 dollars or so) get
a Protel 30 demo, and keep reimaging your pc every thirty days or so.
That will encourage Protel to keep developing, I'm sure ;)
Regards,
Brad
Clarence
"BEVERNON" <beve...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041023134553...@mb-m20.aol.com...
Protel has made several packages available free, IMOH they would only have a
problem if you use it commercially.
Most packages are incremental improvements in the view of the programmer, not
from scratch schemes. The Cost is one factor, but not re-inventing the wheel
is another.
As to running a demo (No support) why not use "Time Crack" to allow it to run
indefinably. No re-imaging required.
GrantM.
> likely to toss it in the Recycle Bin, no matter how bad it is. I guess that
> Protel is decent, but so are many other packages, such as Eagle (which I
> use). I guess that Protel users are simply fooling themselves into thinking
> that something that expensive MUST be good. Well it ain't.
>There are plenty
>of good low-cost and even free CAE programs out there.
Such as?
Clarence
> "Henk Boonsma" <hboo...@teranet.news> wrote in message
news:<1098467223.mdLRj5X0MGtT1+O9jfrunQ@teranews>...
> > "GrantM." <gr...@solarbotics.com> wrote in message
> > news:f30e7a62.04101...@posting.google.com...
> > Protel sucks. If you spent that kind of money on a program, you're not
> > likely to toss it in the Recycle Bin, no matter how bad it is. I guess that
> > Protel is decent, but so are many other packages, such as Eagle (which I
> > use). I guess that Protel users are simply fooling themselves into thinking
> > that something that expensive MUST be good. Well it ain't.
>
Having used over fifteen PCB design packages, I will say this narrow view is
not common. While I have been using Orcad for over 15 years, I have also used
"verybest" "Vanguard," "Pads," & Protel 99SE & 'DXP'
they all have their individual quirks, but all are useful and do the job
reasonably well.
I have also tried many Demo packages, and with in the limits they are all
capable of doing a good job. I do not understand the Caustic condemnation of
any one package as being a fair assessment of the capabilities of that package.
I bought Protell, Which is the LEAST expensive package I have, and have
upgraded it due to a customer who requested it. The only criticism I have of
the package is the help files were written by a programmer, not a PCB designer.
Clarence.
PS: I do NOT recommend CELL. Although I haven't seen it around fro a long
time. It truly was an amateur effort.
Clarence
> "Henk Boonsma" <hboo...@teranet.news> wrote in message
news:<1098467223.mdLRj5X0MGtT1+O9jfrunQ@teranews>...
> > "GrantM." <gr...@solarbotics.com> wrote in message
> > news:f30e7a62.04101...@posting.google.com...
> > Protel sucks. If you spent that kind of money on a program, you're not
> > likely to toss it in the Recycle Bin, no matter how bad it is. I guess that
> > Protel is decent, but so are many other packages, such as Eagle (which I
> > use). I guess that Protel users are simply fooling themselves into thinking
> > that something that expensive MUST be good. Well it ain't.
>
Having used over fifteen PCB design packages, I will say this narrow view is
not common. While I have been using Orcad for over 15 years, I have also used
"verybest" "Vanguard," "Pads," & Protel 99SE & 'DXP'
they all have their individual quirks, but all are useful and do the job
reasonably well.
I have also tried many Demo packages, and with in the limits they are all
capable of doing a good job. I do not understand the Caustic condemnation of
any one package as being a fair assessment of the capabilities of that package.
I bought Protell, Which is the LEAST expensive package I have, and have
upgraded it due to a customer who requested it. The only criticism I have of
the package is the help files were written by a programmer, not a PCB designer.
Clarence.
PS: I do NOT recommend CELL. Although I haven't seen it around for a long
this bit-@connect-2.co.uk R.Lewis
"Henk Boonsma" <hboo...@teranet.news> wrote in message
news:1098467223.mdLRj5X0MGtT1+O9jfrunQ@teranews...
>
Well said (though you should not single out just Protel - there are others
similarly marketed).