Mena, Arkansas: Tom Valentine interviews Lt. Com. Alex Martin
Orlin Grabbe
place on Tom Valentine's Radio Free America program on July 10, 1995.
Valentine's comments follow "Q" while Martin's follow "A".]
Q: Please tell us a little bit about yourself.
A: I'm Alexander Martin of Iran-contra fame. I testified before the Kerry
committee and every single investigating committee in Congress from 1987
until 1990. I was the former employer, employee and subordinate of Major
General Richard Secord, a name familiar to people. In 1984, I was approached
by a representative of the good general with a mandate that I raise money
and form a series of corporations to raise money and legitimize flows of
money to what Oliver North described as "the cause" and what Secord described
as "the enterprise". That was a covert and illegal effort to support and
maintain a contra army within the border of Nicaragua.
Q: I've heard you were instrumental in much of this.
A: I don't know how instrumental I was, but I raised millions for these
boys.
Q: A lot of us have heard a lot about the so-called "Iran-contra" affair
which was very big in the media at one time, during the congressional
hearings, etc., but based upon what I know, I don't think the public really
knows the whole story. Do you think it has been clarified as to what
really did happen?
A: Of course not. Anyone who is in the people's government who is a politi-
cian obviously doesn't have a vested interest in telling the people the
truth. I'm going to try to tell the truth.
Q: You were a lieutenant commander in the U.S. Navy prior to your involve-
ment in the Iran-contra affair?
A: Yes, but I was retired from the Navy at the time I was brought into
what later became known as Iran-contra. That's when I became very closely
aligned with Richard Secord, Oliver North, Jeb Bush, Felix Rodriquez and a
whole panoply of people who essentially ran Iran-contra as it were.
[Q+A section on public's attitude omitted]
Q: I actually had somebody tell me recently that, in their words, "Iran-
contra was no big deal. They were fighting communism, weren't they?"
A: What became known as Iran-contra (and it was then-Attorney General Edwin
Meese who thought up the terminology) was the largest illegal covert
operation the government has ever undertaken. It involved nearly 5,000
people at one time, billions of taxpayers' dollars and egregious acts of
government which were illegal, including, obviously, the surreptitious
trafficking in arms and narcotics, as part of a state-sanctioned policy.
There has been great speculation in the press ever since the collapse of
Iran-contra about the CIA's sponsorship of narcotics trafficking to
generate covert revenues and the illegal trafficking of weapons, etc.
Q: There are still many who believe Iran-contra was not a government-
sponsored affair; that those who were responsible were part of a so-called
"rogue" operation by people who did it for their own profit.
A: To some extent, it's true. I've been asked about this before. There
were billions upon billions of dollars raised, ostensibly to support a
50,000-man rebel army in Nicaragua. And the money raised was certainly vast
resources beyond what was necessary to support that army. When Oliver
North, before the Kerry Senate hearing was asked by Senator Dan Inouye,
how much of those billions that the taxpayers were raped and pillaged for
actually went to support the Nicaraguan contras, North himself said in
public testimony that it was only 3 percent.
Q: Only 3 percent? That means 97 percent went somewhere else.
A: It went into people's pockets. General Secord certainly profited
handsomely. General John Singlaub and a host of others did likewise.
However, would it have been possible for these men to carry out such an
enormous conspiracy, to traffic in such enormous quantities of illegal
items, without the duplicity and complicity of the United States govern-
ment?
Q: I don't see how it would have been possible.
A: It would not have been possible, and it was not possible at the time to
do so. I think George Bush said it very well in an interview with Sarah
McClendon, the grand dame of the Washington press corps. When Bush consented
to an interview with Mrs. McClendon in June of 1992, he said on record, which
she printed in her newsletter that month, when she asked him about Iran-
contra and he said, (and I'm quoting from her newsletter): "If the people
were to ever find out what we have done, we would be chased down the streets
and lynched." This was a public comment by George Bush.
Q: George Bush actually admitted that?
A: He said it and it was printed in Mrs. McClendon's newsletter in June of
1992.
Q: That's interesting since Bush just got reimbursed for his legal fees
arising from the Iran-contra affair. Could you refresh us as to the details
of Iran-contra from your unique vantage point as a participant?
A: Very simply put, what became known as Iran-contra was originally an
operational policy formulated by the director of central intelligence
William Casey, early in the Reagan presidency. It was codenamed "Operation
Eagle" at that time. It was essentially put on the shelf until 1983,
renamed "Operation Black Eagle", and Oliver North was brought into it at
that time. One of the first things Ronald Reagan did was to appoint lowly
lieutenant colonel Oliver North to be director of the then-secret National
Programs Office (NPO), an agency which, in 1983, was still very highly
classified.
Q: Who suggested North's appointment to Reagan?
A: CIA Director Bill Casey. North was his hand-picked fellow. As far as
Ronald Reagan's role in Iran-contra (which I'm often asked about), I have
only met him once in my official capacity. It was always my impression
that Ronald Reagan had the broad concept of establishing a "contra" (or
rebel) army inside Nicaragua to act as a ward against what he perceived to
be a spreading Red tide in Central America. But that is about all Reagan
thought and that is about all he knew, at least based upon what I was able
to perceive at the time. He didn't come up with the policy; he was not
kept informed in regular briefings. All Iran-contra initiatives were
ultimately consolidated under the office of Vice President George Bush
who was ultimately responsible for the initiation of policies. He was
fully apprised of virtually every operation.
Q: Bush told the public that he was "out of the loop".
A: In fact, it was Reagan who was out of the loop. Certainly that was my
perception at the time. It was CIA Director Casey's idea to consolidate
Iran-contra operations under the office of the Vice President so that they
wouldn't "stick out" so much, as it were.
Q: The contra operations are relatively simple to understand. But how did
Iran become involved in the picture?
A: The whole concept of "Iran-contra" is a misnomer. It was thought up by
Ed Meese, who went on national television the day after Thanksgiving in 1986
and told the American people that their government had been involved in an
illegal act: to wit, the sale of arms to Iran and a diversion of the profits
from those weapons to support the Nicaraguan contras. That's all Meese said.
The ruse of talking about "Iran-contra" was done to misdirect the media into
looking at the Iranian aspect of it and stay away from the contra and
Central American aspect of it. It was in the latter case that the real
political and legal liability for the government lay.
Q: And this is where the real profit lay as well.
A: Narcotics were not involved with the Iranian operations. The more egreg-
ious acts involving our government didn't relate to the sale of some $30
million in TOW missiles to the Iranian government. Frankly, no one cared
about it at the time.
Q: The left-learning Sandinistas government was in power in Nicaragua at
this time and Ronald Reagan wanted to drive them out. Congress did not.
A: As early as 1983 Congress was fighting aid to the contras. They were
afraid of another Vietnam-style involvement. We were facing a well-equipped
120,000 man Sandinista army, thanks to arms from the Soviets. Therefore
they appropriated very little money (less than $100 million) during 1983
to 1986. Even that, Congress stipulated, would only go to "civilian
materiel assistance." That is, non-weapons. However, as it turned out, as
Oliver North pointed out, it didn't work out that way, but that is what
Congress intended.
Q: Somebody is going to make a lot of money in any war.
A: As Richard Secord was fond of saying, "If you look up the word 'covert'
in the dictionary, you'll find a dollar sign next to it."
Q: You were part of the financial end of Iran-contra, setting up dummy
companies that handled money for the operation.
A: Effectively, I was "legitimizing" money for the operation. I would
set up an investment company, let us say oil and gas, which tends to be one
of the oldest of right-wing favorites, for the production of covert revenue.
I would be provided by Richard Secord with lists of very well-heeled
Republicans who were supportive of "the cause" (Iran-contra) and wish to
contribute money but could not do so insofar as it was an illegal action
of state. Therefore I would set up an investment which existed nowhere
else but in a file drawer and I would sell this investment product to these
"investors" and the money would wind up in the hands of Oliver North and
Richard Secord, ostensibly to support "the cause". When the fraud was
perpetrated in this act was on the U.S. Treasury, insofar as the money that
these people were supposedly investing they got to write off on a very
high-levered basis. Consequently the IRS was denied substantial revenues
that they should have received.
Q: How did people manage that since there is very little that is able to
be written off these days?
A: This was prior to the 1986 tax reform laws. These are 50 percent maxi-
mum tax bracket days. These are the days of many tax shelters, oil and gas
certainly being premier among them. Obviously if you had a very well-heeled
gentleman in the 50 percent tax bracket, and you could provide him with an
investment where he could write off his money on a two-for-one leveraged
basis, then after taxes, his so-called "investment" didn't cost him a dime.
And, as Oliver North used to remind me, he had the gratification of serving
America--certainly Oliver North's version of America. One reason I've been
speaking out is that I have to defend myself. Obviously, Oliver North has
criticized me publicly in the past, even on his radio talk show.
North has said, for instance, that by telling the American people
the truth about what he and other did that I am being "unpatriotic". That
is essentially what he has said in his criticisms of me. That it is
obviously "unpatriotic" to tell the American people the truth about what
their government has been doing to them, a truth that if the American
people ever fully realized what has been done to them and did something
about it, could--in North's words--"prove dangerous to the political order
of the state."
Q: Let's hope so. The political order of the state brought us Oliver
North an his scandal. Now if they had been able to solve the problem in
Central America, we might conclude that they had done a good deed. How
do you look at that?
A: The original concept, in my estimation, was noble. But after 1983 it
became twisted as those in the shadows of government recognized an oppor-
tunity to profit by this. They recognized that in the name of "patriotism"
they were able to rape and pillage banks, securities and insurance firms,
to traffic in illicit items, all in the name of profit, and nothing in
the name of patriotism.
Q: This was a secret, covert operation so they could virtually get away
with murder.
A: Absolutely correct. The government was forced endlessly to cover up for
fraud by people who were only marginally connected to Iran-contra operations.
Q: The rape of the savings and loans was all part of this tax scam, for
this covert operation (Iran-contra), which became a scam.
A: The best description of what Iran-contra became was said to me in a
conversation with Richard Secord in September of 1985. I told the general
that I was becoming nervous about the volume of activity that we had become
engaged in. I was concerned that if the American people found out that the
political repercussions would be enormous. I pointed out to him that the
vast amount of money being raised was far beyond what was necessary to sup-
port a 50,000-man army. It wouldn't have taken a tenth of what we were
raising.
Q: Where does the CIA's Mena, Arkansas drugs-and-arms smuggling operation
fit into all of this?
A: Mena was essentially the hub of Olive North's so-called guns-for-drugs
operations. It was drugs flowing north and guns flowing south. How Mena
actually came into existence was that Mena was actually a secure facility
of the National Programs Office in 1983. You will notice that all of the
facilities used in the weapons and narcotics transactions--that is, at the
well-known places mentioned in the press before, such as Iron Mountain,
Texas, the airfield at Joppa Missouri, the airfield at Fire Lakes, Nevada, etc.
had a common link in that they were all facilities controlled by the National
Programs Office, an office that could operate in extreme secrecy and initially
keep these sites extremely secure. That is how we got to Mena. Also at
Mena there were existing CIA facilities and you had an existing CIA
command structure: communications and logistics support. I was the first
person to reveal the names of the CIA support people on the ground at Mena.
Now Mena is coming back in the news. There is a move within some GOP
circles on Capitol Hill to bring it back. We have not heard the last of Mena.
Q: Are you not afraid for your personal safety in exposing all of this?
There have been a lot of "suicides" we've been hearing about and other
strange deaths related to all this.
A: Out of the roughly 5,000 of us who were originally involved in Iran-
contra, approximately 400, since 1986, have committed suicide, died
accidentally or died of natural causes. I knew every single person who has
died. In over half of these deaths, official death certificates were never
even issued. In 187 circumstances, the bodies were cremated before the
families were even notified. I am lying low, so to speak. I have been
forced to do so. ###