RESULTS: Grad. Econ. Qualifying Exams.
fru...@cgsvax.claremont.edu
posted the following message to sci.econ.research and sci.econ:
>The economics program at The Claremont Graduate School has begun
>revising their Ph.D. curriculum, particularly the required number of
>qualifying examinations. Currently Ph.D. students must take five
>qualifying examinations as follows:
>
> 1. Microeconomics
> 2. Macroeconomics
> 3. Econometrics
> 4-5. Two fields (student's choice)
>
>One plan proposes to eliminate the econometrics examination and
>one of the field examinations, and make the remaining field
>examination cover a much broader topic. This would have students
>taking a total of three qualifying examinations.
>
>I am looking for two things:
> 1. How this compares with other Ph.D. programs.
> 2. Whether you believe qualifying examinations are ''important''
> for a Ph.D. program.
Now, here are the results:
School Micro Macro Quant Electives
------ ----- ----- ----- ---------
Stanford X X X 2 (exam, paper, or grades)
U. Washington X X 2 (1 exam, 1 exam or grades)
U. Illinois (grade of B or better) (some fields)
Washington U. X X 0 (2nd, 3rd, 4th year papers)
Minnesota X X 2
Geo. Mason X X 2
Toronto X X 1 + 1 paper
UCLA X X X 2
Johns Hopkins X X 0 (2nd year paper)
Columbia X X X
Arizona X X X 2 (1 is oral thesis defence)
Boston College X X 2
UCSD X X X
Mississippi X X X 2 (1 is oral)
Claremont Grad. Sch. X X 2
Here are the comments. They have been "cleaned up" but not edited.
------ Begin Comments ------
I am in my 4th year of the PhD program at Stanford. We are required
to take three comprehensive exams - Micro, Macro, and Econometrics.
We are required to "specialize" in two fields. Satisfaction of the
field requirement varies by field. For some fields there is a comp,
for some there is a paper, for some fields one must pass two courses.
I believe comprehensive examinations are more important for "basic"
material (i.e., macro, micro, econometrics), as providing a strong
understanding of these topics is key to training graduate students
to be good economic researchers. The overall value of a comp, however,
depends upon the quality of the exams that are written. A poorly
written and designed econometrics comp is far worse than a good
paper requirement. In fact, for econometrics, one might argue in
favor of a combined short comprehensive exam and empirical paper
requirement.
Good luck.
Joanne
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Joanne Spetz Department of Economics
jo...@leland.stanford.edu Stanford University
"Argue for your limitations, and sure enough, they're yours." -R.Bach
At the University of Washington students take qualifying exams in micro and
macro. (They are required to have a year of econometrics, but not a special
exam.) Students also must pass two fields. One must be by exam. The other
can be either by exam or high grades.
-Dick Startz
--
Richard Startz Internet::sta...@u.washington.edu
Professor of Economics voice:: 206-543-8172
University of Washington fax:: 206-685-6419
Seattle, WA 98195 USA
The University of Illinois doesn't have qualifying examinations for the
core fields (macro, micro, econometrics). The core sequence lasts three
semesters; a B average must be earned in each of the fields to continue
in the program.
Some elective fields, such as micro theory and history, have qualifying
examinations. Others don't and rely on the GPA earned in field courses (B+
or better required).
> 2. Whether you believe qualifying examinations are ''important''
> for a Ph.D. program.
I think qualifying exams only serve as another weedout tool. For the
purposes of an economics education, they don't add anything.
Tom Gift
tom...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
>The economics program at The Claremont Graduate School has begun
>revising their Ph.D. curriculum, particularly the required number of
>qualifying examinations. Currently Ph.D. students must take five
>qualifying examinations as follows:
>
> 1. Microeconomics
> 2. Macroeconomics
> 3. Econometrics
> 4-5. Two fields (student's choice)
>
We still have first year exams but only in 1. and 2. not in 3. I prefer no
exams and argued for that but did not get it. Given that you have 1. and 2. I
would strongly argue for 3. to be kept and have argued some here that we
should have 3. if we have 1. and 2. (but I don't want to grade them). Why?
Bec. if you have 1. and 2. and not 3. students slight 3. quite a lot (it
certainly happens here).
>One plan proposes to eliminate the econometrics examination and
>one of the field examinations, and make the remaining field
>examination cover a much broader topic. This would have students
>taking a total of three qualifying examinations.
We (it was my plan) eliminated all field exams and now have papers in 2nd,
3rd, 4th, etc years. It has been quite successful since taking a course to
write an exam is quite different than taking a course to write a paper and
writing papers is whaqt the profession is all about.
Bob
>
>I am looking for two things:
> 1. How this compares with other Ph.D. programs.
> 2. Whether you believe qualifying examinations are ''important''
> for a Ph.D. program.
Writing is important, exams are not.
Bob
>
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The U of Minnesota uses 4 exams: micro, macro, and 2 field exams. This set of
requirements is at present under review, with a proposal to reduce emphasis on
exams in favor of getting students into writing research paper earlier in their
career. This proposal hasn't yet been brought to the full faculty, so I don't
want to give you the details yet. It was developed by a committee working on
proposal to shorten our program (avg. close to 6 years) without lowering quality
I have not personally been very happy with field exams in recent years because,
at Minn., they have become too predictable, narrowly based on the preparatory
courses. If the exams are to be course exams, better to just use the final exams
for the test and avoid duplication of effort.
When there was agreement that the exam should be more broadly based there was a
reason for it; but that foundered on the difficulty of setting precise questions
to which there were precise answers in areas that the student had not studied in
class. (If not course-based, questions tend to become invitations to discursive
answers with little content, on which it is hard to discriminate between
well-prepared students and others).
On the issue of an econometrics exam, we give several options for demonstrating
competence short of a written doctoral exam; most involve taking courses, but
one is to have an anti-econometrics adviser certify that the student doesn't
need to learn it for his area of specialization! (I'm a bit embarrassed to admit
that, but it's true).
Best wishes with the revision.
Ed Foster (fos...@mailbox.mail.umn.edu)
Director of Graduate Studies
Department of Economics
University of Minnesota
271 19th Avenue South, Room 1035
Minneapolis, MN 55455
Phone 612 624 6567. Home 612 823 2932. Fax 612 624 0209
As I remember George Mason Univ. required Macro, Micro, and 2 Fields.
I see no reason for all students to qualify in econometrics, especially if it
is primarily oriented to theory, instead of practice. However, if Claremont
markets itself as a univ. specializing in the teaching of econometrics then
it would seem reasonable to have this requirement.
My personal opinion is that the general fields (micro & macro) are essential
and that the fields tests are very important also. I personally enjoyed study-
ing for and taking the field tests.
Hello,
Here at the University of Toronto, one needs to write 3 comprehensive
exams in the Economics Ph.D. program: Micro, Macro, and 1 field exam
(in one's chosen major area of study). There is a 2nd year paper
requirement which is considered to be the equivalent of a field exam
(I was able to skip the 2nd year paper because I'm in a special joint
program in Finance with the business school, and they have 2
comprehensive exams in finance). One must take courses in at least two
major fields, but one need only write one exam. The emphasis seems to
be on getting to one's thesis asap, instead of studying for comprehensives.
Regards,
--
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| George Kirikos Internet: gkir...@epas.utoronto.ca |
| Toronto, Canada Telephone: (416) 537-1756 |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Here at ucla, phd students must pass 4 comps: 2 fields and 2 "first
year" comps. First year comps are macro, micro, and econometrics.
--
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
:: Jason Zarin :: za...@econ.sscnet.ucla.edu ::
:: Grad Student at UCLA :: "To an economist, real life is a special case." ::
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
I think my department is sort of exceptional in that it requires very little
as "qualifying exams". We have to take Micro and Macro "comprehensive"
exams at the beginning of second year, and there is no econometrics exam
or any other field exams. It is understood that the second year courses
are research oriented and passing final exams for such courses are enough
(of course, many such courses also require term papers). This practice
comes from the fact that this department is much too small to administer
,say, five qualifying exams. By the way, in addition to passing two
comprehensive exams beforementioned, students are required to write a
research paper by April 15th (which is tomorrow) of second year, this
paper is a part of qualifying exams and judged by a higher standard than
usual term papers (i.e. faculty members are assigned to read them and
report their evaluations).
I hope this helps.
--
Sung Hyun Kim ; kim...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu ; johns hopkins university
sun...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu ; dept. of economics
These examinations are a North American tradition. Programs often have
foreign language requirements as well (pass/fail). The logic is that a
basic core competence should be certified. Why? How broad? What should
be measured on these examinations? (knowledge of field, ability to
integrate across fields, or something else?) Let me speculate that the
notion of standard examinations instead of a period of apprenticeship
seems to characterize North American entry into trades and professions as
distinct from European traditions.
In earlier times, people were learned and subject areas less distinct.
One could demonstrate appropriate qualities of scholarship by the
successful completion of a dissertation. Now, in North America, subject
areas are more or less deliniated and one is expected to have a solid,
general core background. Can this be established by a course requirement
alone?
Course grades are not fully "examination" based. One could do well enough
in many courses by writing a few narrow essays. If one changed course
grades to be examination based, where one is only allowed to attempt the
course examination after successful completion of course work, and if the
course examination were given by other-than-the-instructor, a course
requirement system might accomplish much that a system of examinations
seeks to do.
However, if the Ph.D. is really a research degree and not a general
practitioner license, perhaps only the research contribution should be
measured. Much hangs on how important product standardization is and how
much individuals should have diverse backgrounds before their
contributions to learning should be taken seriously.
With 5 exams, students will take 3-4 years to even finish exams before even getting
to write something creative.
IMHO, it should be a declared goal to get students graduated by year 4-5. This seems
to be the maximum for students to reliably get good jobs at other universities. A
6-7th year student usually is considered "non-productive" by many faculties, either
implicitly or explicitly. Furthermore, students may discover that they are not good
at "creative" work, i.e., writing their own papers. Finding out after 4 years that
they won't succeed is a very tough thing to swallow.
/ivo welch
ucla finance dept
--
Ivo Welch i...@128.97.74.50 = next.agsm.ucla.edu
Asst Prof of Finance iwe...@agsm.ucla.edu
AGSM at UCLA
Your qualifying exam sequence is just as ours here at Columbia.
At the end of the first year one takes 3 exams: Econometrics,
Macroeconomics, and Microeconomics. A the end of the second
year there are two field exams. The only other requirements are:
I hope that helps.
Hi,
I am a graduate student in the econ department at the university of
arizona.
The "exam" proceedure here works as follows:
1. After the first year, all phd students take three exams (preliminary
exams) in micro, macro and econometrics. The students have had
2 courses in micro, 1 course in macro and 1 stats course and 1
econometrics course. The exam is scheduled in august and takes place
over two days. Students who take the exam must complete the complete
exam. Even if one feels one did poorly on the first day, you have
to come back for more the next day. Students must pass all three
sections of the exam. Students who fail the exam are allowed to
retake the exam somethime in january.
2. Passing the preliminary exams, there are two exams left. One is
the oral exam. This is seen by the university as the field exams.
The department here focuses it more as a thesis proposal exam.
3. The last part of the process is thesis defense.
Personal views:
I believe the prelim process is important. It is rare that phd
students ever leave because they are getting poor grades. Usually it
is because they do not pass their prelims. So it is important that the
department has a way of telling students that it feels are not going
to be able to write a thesis.
Although studying for these exams is stressful, it gave me an
opportunity to put things into perspective. This is not always
something that can be done during a semester.
-alex
--
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sugi...@alumni.caltech.edu | Go Mets.
sugi...@arizona.edu |
Here at Boston College we have four qualifying exams. One each in Micro and
Macro, and then the other two are in fields of our choice. I have heard a
rumor...and that is all it is is just a rumor...that they are thinking of
changing it so that if you had at leasta B+ in the field course work, then you
wouldn't have to write the exams. Apparantely one of the professors ran a
regression that found something like 90% of those who got a B+ or greater in
the field course work passed the exam anyways. I personaly think that this is
a good idea. The emphasis should be off the qualifying exams and on the
course work.
Hope this helps!
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At UCSD there are qualifying exams for Micro, Macro,
Econometrics. Students also have to specialize in
two fields, although there are qualifiers for it --
that knowledge is tested, presumably, in defending
one's dissertation.
I wouldn't eliminate the economterics qualifier.
Noting the use of econometrics by some applied
macro-types, it'd be a good idea to make sure
students are aware of what they are actually doing
when doing econometric analysis.
--Norm
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Eric -
Here at Mississippi State University, doctoral students in economics
earn a DBA degree, not a PhD; therefore the examination procedures are
somewhat different --> this is how it works --> all students must take
a "Quantitative Analysis" qualifying exam after completion of 6 semester
hours in quantitative courses (statistics and econometrics); this exam
takes one-half of a day. Next, upon completion of the core courses,
each student must take a "Preliminary Exam" which is scheduled for 8
hours in length. This exam is divided into three sections -- macro,
micro, and one field of the student's choice. In addition to this major
exam, DBA students are required to take a prelim in another business
discipline (econ students generally sit for finance). This minor exam
is 4 hours in length. When students complete all three of these written
exams, they are elgible to stand for their oral comprehensive exam. The
oral can cover ANYTHING in their program of study and it is administered
by the student's committee. Please note that this is not an oral
defense of a dissertation proprosal --> that comes after the successful
completion of the oral comp. Then of course the last step is an oral
defense of the dissertation.
In my opinion MSU needs to revise the examination procedures, I feel we
give too many. I would be interested in knowing how your planned
revisions work out. As a graduate of Oklahoma State University, I can
also tell you what the procedure was (is) like there ---> after completion
of course work; a one day theory exam broken down by micro (mornings) and
macro (afternoon). In addition, 2 separate field exams of the students
choice (half-day each). There was no econometrics exam unless you
picked that as one of your fields. That was my experience 10 years ago,
and I do not believe it has been changed. OSU did not require an oral
comp but ANYTHING could be asked during the your dissertation proposal
defense or your final defense. But that is probably true everywhere!
Good Luck. Look forward to seeing your survey results.
Paul
--
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Associate Professor of Economics FAX: (601)325-1977
College of Business & Industry Internet: pw...@Ra.MsState.Edu
Mississippi State University Bitnet: pw...@MsState.Bitnet
------ End Comments ------
--------------------
Eric Fruits fru...@cgsvax.claremont.edu
The Claremont Graduate School 909/621-8074 (voice)
Department of Economics 909/621-8390 (fax)
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