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Random Numbers from Text Files
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jamesadrian
Feb 9, 2012, 4:37:06 PM2/9/12
to er...@tirk.com
I wrote an article on my website at futurebeacon.com at this page:
http://www.futurebeacon.com/random.htm
It outlines a method of extracting randomness from ordinary files.
Any comments would be appreciated.
Jim Adrian
j...@futurebeacon.com
http://www.futurebeacon.com/random.htm
It outlines a method of extracting randomness from ordinary files.
Any comments would be appreciated.
Jim Adrian
j...@futurebeacon.com
adacrypt
Feb 9, 2012, 5:32:57 PM2/9/12
to
The gist of your article plainly says that you are confusing
'haphazard' with 'scientific' randomness. This has been a bit of
hobby horse of mine here in this group and I also can supply this link
that might be of interest to you in exchange.
I write more descriptively than mathematically in the article on my
website but this is it if you want to check it out.
http://www.adacrypt.com/downloads/Randomness%20Applied%20to%20Cryptography-%20Enigma%20Two%20.pdf
PS - The (mini) maths dictionary "Penguin Mathematics Dictionary "
says somewhere within it " The numbers 1,2,3 are random numbers
within the context of a set of integers between 1 and 20 - Unquote.
Its a contextual thing - there is no need for hapchance to qualify a
random set - many people wrongly believe that it should be wildly
unplanned - the above example from Penguin bears out that it can be a
mild thing and highly planned instead.
- adacrypt
jamesadrian
Feb 9, 2012, 8:21:27 PM2/9/12
to
On Feb 9, 2:32 pm, adacrypt <austin.oby...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 9, 9:37 pm, jamesadrian <j...@futurebeacon.com> wrote:
>
> > I wrote an article on my website at futurebeacon.com at this page:
>
> >http://www.futurebeacon.com/random.htm
>
> > It outlines a method of extracting randomness from ordinary files.
> > Any comments would be appreciated.
>
> > Jim Adrian
>
> > j...@futurebeacon.com
>
> Hi Jim,
>
> The gist of your article plainly says that you are confusing
> 'haphazard' with 'scientific' randomness. This has been a bit of
> hobby horse of mine here in this group and I also can supply this link
> that might be of interest to you in exchange.
>
> I write more descriptively than mathematically in the article on my
> website but this is it if you want to check it out.
>
> http://www.adacrypt.com/downloads/Randomness%20Applied%20to%20Cryptog...
> On Feb 9, 9:37 pm, jamesadrian <j...@futurebeacon.com> wrote:
>
> > I wrote an article on my website at futurebeacon.com at this page:
>
> >http://www.futurebeacon.com/random.htm
>
> > It outlines a method of extracting randomness from ordinary files.
> > Any comments would be appreciated.
>
> > Jim Adrian
>
> > j...@futurebeacon.com
>
> Hi Jim,
>
> The gist of your article plainly says that you are confusing
> 'haphazard' with 'scientific' randomness. This has been a bit of
> hobby horse of mine here in this group and I also can supply this link
> that might be of interest to you in exchange.
>
> I write more descriptively than mathematically in the article on my
> website but this is it if you want to check it out.
>
>
> PS - The (mini) maths dictionary "Penguin Mathematics Dictionary "
> says somewhere within it " The numbers 1,2,3 are random numbers
> within the context of a set of integers between 1 and 20 - Unquote.
>
> Its a contextual thing - there is no need for hapchance to qualify a
> random set - many people wrongly believe that it should be wildly
> unplanned - the above example from Penguin bears out that it can be a
> mild thing and highly planned instead.
>
> - adacrypt
I strongly disagree, but the matter can be decided mathematically.
> PS - The (mini) maths dictionary "Penguin Mathematics Dictionary "
> says somewhere within it " The numbers 1,2,3 are random numbers
> within the context of a set of integers between 1 and 20 - Unquote.
>
> Its a contextual thing - there is no need for hapchance to qualify a
> random set - many people wrongly believe that it should be wildly
> unplanned - the above example from Penguin bears out that it can be a
> mild thing and highly planned instead.
>
> - adacrypt
Are the bits of the output independent of each other or not?
Jim Adrian
WTShaw
Feb 10, 2012, 12:24:11 AM2/10/12
to
(00-99) for each character of source. Each x number of characters
could be added without carries to produce a new series of bi-digits
which could represent a sort of OTP. A message could be added to the
data to produce a cipher text. Usual character bits are in a skewed
number system as to text so bi-digits would be better.
The advantage is the read fertile source of distributed texts. A key
to the pad could be how the bi-digits are used to produce the pad.
The disadvantage might be the necessity of x times the actual message
in raw pad source.
As a variation since each character of the pad source starts out as a
bi-digit, something like 5 sequential single digits could be summed to
produce a pad digit and the total pad then used as bi-digits in
encryption/decryption.
Greg Rose
Feb 10, 2012, 3:29:40 AM2/10/12
to
In article <51d5538d-57d5-431b...@c21g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>,
Use a good cryptographically secure hash function
(eg. SHA-512) on enough (eg. 512 bytes) of your
file, and the output will be random for all
practical purposes. I haven't looked at your
proposed method.
Greg.
--
jamesadrian <j...@futurebeacon.com> wrote:
>I wrote an article on my website at futurebeacon.com at this page:
>
>http://www.futurebeacon.com/random.htm
>
>It outlines a method of extracting randomness from ordinary files.
>Any comments would be appreciated.
Ignore everything adacrypt says.
>I wrote an article on my website at futurebeacon.com at this page:
>
>http://www.futurebeacon.com/random.htm
>
>It outlines a method of extracting randomness from ordinary files.
>Any comments would be appreciated.
Use a good cryptographically secure hash function
(eg. SHA-512) on enough (eg. 512 bytes) of your
file, and the output will be random for all
practical purposes. I haven't looked at your
proposed method.
Greg.
--
adacrypt
Feb 10, 2012, 4:38:36 AM2/10/12
to
>
> - Show quoted text -
These trivial pursuits of randomness are nothing more than that -
harmless trivia being dignified by Xoring - a bit like doing
crosswords as a cultural time-passer but if the randomness is going to
be used to secure real ciphers then it has to be the real thing i.e
non repeating, having equal probability and validated by the
encryption algorithm that is going to use it as data.
There's no point in living in a fool's paradise and accepting less.
- adacrypt
Mark Murray
Feb 10, 2012, 2:53:55 PM2/10/12
to
On 10/02/2012 09:38, adacrypt wrote:
> These trivial pursuits of randomness are nothing more than that -
> harmless trivia being dignified by Xoring - a bit like doing
> crosswords as a cultural time-passer but if the randomness is going to
> be used to secure real ciphers then it has to be the real thing i.e
> non repeating, having equal probability and validated by the
> encryption algorithm that is going to use it as data.
Adacrypt displays his total ignorance of Von Neumann's whitening
> These trivial pursuits of randomness are nothing more than that -
> harmless trivia being dignified by Xoring - a bit like doing
> crosswords as a cultural time-passer but if the randomness is going to
> be used to secure real ciphers then it has to be the real thing i.e
> non repeating, having equal probability and validated by the
> encryption algorithm that is going to use it as data.
algorithm.
M
--
Mark "No Nickname" Murray
Notable nebbish, extreme generalist.
David Eather
Feb 10, 2012, 10:10:38 PM2/10/12
to
On Sat, 11 Feb 2012 05:53:55 +1000, Mark Murray <w.h....@example.com>
wrote:
> On 10/02/2012 09:38, adacrypt wrote:
>> These trivial pursuits of randomness are nothing more than that -
>> harmless trivia being dignified by Xoring - a bit like doing
>> crosswords as a cultural time-passer but if the randomness is going to
>> be used to secure real ciphers then it has to be the real thing i.e
>> non repeating, having equal probability and validated by the
>> encryption algorithm that is going to use it as data.
>
> Adacrypt displays his total ignorance of Von Neumann's whitening
> algorithm.
>
> M
Von Neumann?? Adacrypt doesn't even know how to define, measure or test
randomness. Everything he has done is built on his delusional
understanding that he already knows everything. Even when it is proved he
is absolutely wrong it does no good because hr just doesn't care.
(one give away - I can define an output as 1, 2, 3, 4..... and because
there are no repeats Adacrypt call that 100% random)
--
We have failed to address the fundamental truth that endless growth is
impossible in a finite world.
wrote:
> On 10/02/2012 09:38, adacrypt wrote:
>> These trivial pursuits of randomness are nothing more than that -
>> harmless trivia being dignified by Xoring - a bit like doing
>> crosswords as a cultural time-passer but if the randomness is going to
>> be used to secure real ciphers then it has to be the real thing i.e
>> non repeating, having equal probability and validated by the
>> encryption algorithm that is going to use it as data.
>
> Adacrypt displays his total ignorance of Von Neumann's whitening
> algorithm.
>
> M
randomness. Everything he has done is built on his delusional
understanding that he already knows everything. Even when it is proved he
is absolutely wrong it does no good because hr just doesn't care.
(one give away - I can define an output as 1, 2, 3, 4..... and because
there are no repeats Adacrypt call that 100% random)
--
We have failed to address the fundamental truth that endless growth is
impossible in a finite world.
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