ShuttlePads SP-MM Ciphertext-Only Challenge - news from the front line

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Richard Heathfield

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Sep 14, 2015, 9:46:48 AM9/14/15
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On Friday afternoon or evening, MM posted a ciphertext that had been
encrypted with ShuttlePads. It comprises 193100 bytes altogether. Since
then, I have been cryptanalysing it, using the traditional way to attack
a polyalphabetic substitution cipher - i.e. Kasiski, striping, frequency
analysis, and then the Mark I eyeball (assisted, I might add, by some
minor home-made software tools).

Rather than scatter progress reports all over every thread, it seemed to
me that those who are interested in how I'm getting along might prefer
to have just one thread to check. So here it is.

STEP 1: Kasiski

Did that, key length is 100. I knew that anyway because it's public
knowledge, but it's best to check these things. (AOB threw me a couple
of times by changing the number of pads when I wasn't watching.)

STEP 2: Striping and Frequency Analysis

Did that. Compared each stripe's freqanalysis to a reference text (I
used Shakespeare, I think). That gave me a bunch of starting candidates
for PT/CT pairs, of which there are 9500 altogether (not four million, a
figure I have seen bandied about the group recently in this context).

STEP 3: A few guesses

I started off by looking for " t.e " patterns (the spaces matter!),
which I filled with " the ". Next I tried " th.t ", which I filled with
" that ". This gave me reasonable assurance of a, e, h, t. Then I went
to " have " but I realised I was quickly reaching the point of
diminishing returns.

STEP 4: Some more guesses

I found, and posted, a few cribs, such as "United States",
"sensitivity", "rheostat". But I found that I was progressing slowly
because I was often undoing correct pairings when incorrectly guessing
new pairings (because of the swapover technique used by the program I
wrote to update my record of current pairings).

STEP 5: Focusing on the essentials

I realised that I could make better progress if I proceeded through one
stripe at a time. It was folly to imagine that I could do an entire
stripe before moving onto the next one, but I felt reasonably confident
of getting " etaoinshrdlu" out of each stripe, and so that's the path
I've taken. These 13 characters represent an astounding 70% of English
language plaintexts, so I felt that cracking these would give me a head
start. And so it proved.

From Step 4, it just happened that a lot of my correct guesses had
appeared in columns 60-80, so I started there and worked rightward,
reaching column 99 some time last night. This morning, I started moving
leftward from column 60, and having finished column 50 I now have 649
correct " etaoinshrdlu" pairings. (Yeah, I know. I couldn't find a
ciphertext match for 'u' in column 98. It'll come out in the wash.)

So I've recovered roughly 35% of the plaintext so far (because 70% *
50/100 = 35%).

Below are my current guesses as to the first 5,000 bytes of the file
(posting the whole 193,100 would be pointless and antisocial). I've
split each 100-character line in two, so that it won't do stupid wrappy
things in Usenet. Since the last 50 characters are the ones I've been
focusing on so far, you should find that you get a line of gibberish
followed by a line of, well, not-quite-gibberish. What I hope you will
also notice is that, very often, you are able to read a word even though
one or two of the letters in that word are wrong. And that's the whole
point - that's how the crack works. For example, near the end of the
following extract you will find the word "rtraaghtfircard", which is
obviously "straightforward". (I must go and fill that in.) That gives me
four new correct PT/CT pairings right there, which of course I
automatically propagate through the rest of their respective stripes,
giving me further crib opportunities later on.

And something /else/ you might notice is that some of these lines are
actually complete! (That is, even the non-" etaoinshrdlu" stuff is
done.) That's partly because occasionally I get distracted and go fix
other stuff, and partly because setting up " etaoinshrdlu" correctly has
a knock-on effect on other characters, which (occasionally) fall
magically into place. But mostly it's because I get distracted. The
knock-on effect will become significant later, though, as the other Rich
has pointed out recently.

You might wonder why I haven't fixed some of the obvious stuff here.
Well, it's because I was too busy fixing /other/ obvious stuff. It takes
time. I'll get there.

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--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

Richard Heathfield

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Sep 14, 2015, 1:15:39 PM9/14/15
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On 14/09/2015 14:46, Richard Heathfield wrote:

<snip>

> So I've recovered roughly 35% of the plaintext so far (because 70% *
> 50/100 = 35%).

Okay, so that's:

14/09/2015 14:46 - 35% (est)
14/09/2015 18:14 - 42% (est)

That's another 7% in three and a half hours (most of which time was
spent doing other things!).

austin...@hotmail.com

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Sep 14, 2015, 2:13:46 PM9/14/15
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So you will be all prepared for a batch of ciphertext from me now ???

MM

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Sep 14, 2015, 2:16:02 PM9/14/15
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On 2015-09-14 18:13:43 +0000, austin...@hotmail.com said:

> So you will be all prepared for a batch of ciphertext from me now ???

Are you prepared to accept reality yet?

Do you accept Richard's conditions?

M
--

Rich

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Sep 14, 2015, 2:19:18 PM9/14/15
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Richard Heathfield <r...@cpax.org.uk> wrote:
> On 14/09/2015 14:46, Richard Heathfield wrote:

> <snip>

> > So I've recovered roughly 35% of the plaintext so far (because 70% *
> > 50/100 = 35%).

> Okay, so that's:

> 14/09/2015 14:46 - 35% (est)
> 14/09/2015 18:14 - 42% (est)

> That's another 7% in three and a half hours (most of which time was
> spent doing other things!).

You appear to be either close to, on top of, or just past that tipping
point where the last half to two-thirds takes only a tenth of the total
time the first one third to one half took.

Richard Heathfield

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Sep 14, 2015, 3:15:15 PM9/14/15
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On 14/09/2015 19:13, austin...@hotmail.com wrote:

> So you will be all prepared for a batch of ciphertext from me now ???

Can't you see I'm busy? I already explained under what conditions I
would accept another challenge, and you have not yet accepted those
conditions. Find them. Read them. Accept them. And then you can wait
until I've finished /this/ crack. I only have one pair of hands.

Richard Heathfield

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Sep 14, 2015, 3:24:50 PM9/14/15
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Not so sure about that. I made rapid progress in pads 60-99 because I
already had a fair few cracks in those columns. I'm going slower and
slower as I head leftward. (I just finished tackling column 38.)

I have established 805 CT/PT pairs out of 9500, but they are all "
etaoinshrdlu" PTs, which cover 70% of a typical English plaintext.

I wouldn't want to start thinking about the tipping point until I've
finished Pad 0 (which will be the last pad I do - it just worked out
like that, really). Once I've got everything " etaoinshrdlu"d, the next
stage will, I think, be to go right across the pads, looking for the
next lower case letter each time. So I'll start with m, then y, then w,
then f, and so on, in each case finding the corresponding CT letter in
/every/ pad.

Once I've finished lower case, I'll move on to upper case. I'm not even
remotely worried about punctuation. As long as I get the basic message,
I'm not fussed.

It should be said, by the way, that *in passing* I have established a
good few more than the 805 CT/PT pairs I've written down on my
"definitely right" charts. The software is keeping track of them, of
course, but it doesn't know which ones are right and which are wrong. As
far as it's concerned, they are just guesses (which I happen to be able
to see are correct).

I think once I've finished " etaoinshrdlu" for every pad, I'll be in a
better position to keep you informed of progress in a way that might
reasonably lead to predictions about an end time.

Richard Heathfield

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Sep 14, 2015, 6:02:38 PM9/14/15
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14/09/2015 14:46 - 35% (est)
14/09/2015 18:14 - 42% (est)
14/09/2015 23:02 - 50% (est)

Richard Heathfield

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Sep 14, 2015, 8:56:36 PM9/14/15
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14/09/2015 14:46 - 35% (est)
14/09/2015 18:14 - 42% (est)
14/09/2015 23:02 - 50% (est)
15/09/2015 01:56 - 56% (est)

austin...@hotmail.com

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Sep 15, 2015, 2:45:13 AM9/15/15
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On Monday, September 14, 2015 at 2:46:48 PM UTC+1, Richard Heathfield wrote:
Out of curiosity how quickly was that done using his personal implementation of ShuttlePads - I would not be surprised to hear less than one second. Some cipher that. - AOB

Karl-Uwe Frank

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Sep 15, 2015, 3:26:32 AM9/15/15
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On 15.09.15 08:45, austin...@hotmail.com wrote:

> Out of curiosity how quickly was that done using his personal implementation of ShuttlePads - I would not be surprised to hear less than one second. Some cipher that. - AOB

The sad and simple truth is, that you are far to ignorant and stubborn
to understand the implication of Richards attack on your cipher
algorithm, nor can you follow his thoughts in order to understand why
your cipher algorithm will never be secure.


The nice story though is, that Richard and others are breaking your
cipher algorithm publicly and highlighting the weakness. This way they
show the interested reader how one should *not* design a cipher
algorithm and the importance to understand how and why an attack can be
mounted.

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ne...@netfront.net ---

MM

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Sep 15, 2015, 3:50:32 AM9/15/15
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On 2015-09-15 07:26:27 +0000, Karl-Uwe Frank said:

> On 15.09.15 08:45, austin...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> Out of curiosity how quickly was that done using his personal
>> implementation of ShuttlePads - I would not be surprised to hear less
>> than one second. Some cipher that. - AOB
>
> The sad and simple truth is, that you are far to ignorant and stubborn
> to understand the implication of Richards attack on your cipher
> algorithm, nor can you follow his thoughts in order to understand why
> your cipher algorithm will never be secure.

AOB is a very clear illustration of a textbook crank.

> The nice story though is, that Richard and others are breaking your
> cipher algorithm publicly and highlighting the weakness. This way they
> show the interested reader how one should *not* design a cipher
> algorithm and the importance to understand how and why an attack can be
> mounted.

Hang on, hang on - you guy don't know if he got it right yet, only
that he got /something/.

M
--

Karl-Uwe Frank

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Sep 15, 2015, 4:06:44 AM9/15/15
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Do you suppose that his ShufflePads will be secure some day in the
future? Even not only because a proper KSA is missing. Therefore I don't
think so - but maybe AOB will surprise me.

MM

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Sep 15, 2015, 4:12:52 AM9/15/15
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On 2015-09-15 08:06:39 +0000, Karl-Uwe Frank said:

> Do you suppose that his ShufflePads will be secure some day in the
> future? Even not only because a proper KSA is missing. Therefore I
> don't think so - but maybe AOB will surprise me.

If the number of pads equals the length of his message, and he never
reuses pads - ever, then yes, it will be secure.

Unusable, but secure.

M
--

Richard Heathfield

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Sep 15, 2015, 5:17:12 AM9/15/15
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On 15/09/2015 07:45, austin...@hotmail.com wrote:

<snip>

> Out of curiosity how quickly was that done using his personal implementation of ShuttlePads

I'm not /using/ my personal implementation of ShuttlePads. I don't have
the key, remember? I'm using methods that existed a long long time
before ShuttlePads was just a twinkle in your eye.


> - I would not be surprised to hear less than one second. Some cipher that. - AOB

Are you now suggesting that ShuttlePads is high-performance? Trust me,
it isn't.

Richard Heathfield

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Sep 15, 2015, 5:24:25 AM9/15/15
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Only if the pads are chosen at random.

And remember, that's 95 characters of key for every character of
plaintext, which means that it's...

> Unusable, but secure.

Yup.

Richard Heathfield

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Sep 15, 2015, 6:24:25 AM9/15/15
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14/09/2015 14:46 - 35% (est)
14/09/2015 18:14 - 42% (est)
14/09/2015 23:02 - 50% (est)
15/09/2015 01:56 - 56% (est)
15/09/2015 11:23 - 63% (est)

Richard Heathfield

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Sep 15, 2015, 8:32:21 AM9/15/15
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On 15/09/2015 11:24, Richard Heathfield wrote:
14/09/2015 14:46 - 35% (est)
14/09/2015 18:14 - 42% (est)
14/09/2015 23:02 - 50% (est)
15/09/2015 01:56 - 56% (est)
15/09/2015 11:23 - 63% (est)
15/09/2015 13:29 - 70% (est)

Getting there. I've now finished the important step of establishing a
PT/CT pairing for every character in the "etaoinshrdlu" sequence, for
every column - except for PT u in three columns. In fact, the letter u
has been a real pain all the way throQgh!

(The next step is to tackle the remaining lower case letters. I'm on it.)

Obviously this text is about wireless telegraphy. Equally obviously,
though, I haven't yet crossed all the i's or dotted all the t's (and it
may well be that they end up that way round!), and occasionally a
not-yet-completed decrypt catches my eye. There was one in particular
that made me wonder whether the subject of this text was not, after all,
the banking industry. It read "Lending and Deceiving". :-)

Anyway, here are the first few lines of the current best guess as to the
text. I've split it into lines of 50 rather than 100 so that line wrap
doesn't screw it up.

The Project Gutenberg Ebook of The Radio Amateur's
Hand Bookby E. Frederick CollinsCopyright laws ar
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Richard Heathfield

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Sep 15, 2015, 10:35:38 AM9/15/15
to
14/09/2015 14:46 - 35% (est)
14/09/2015 18:14 - 42% (est)
14/09/2015 23:02 - 50% (est)
15/09/2015 01:56 - 56% (est)
15/09/2015 11:23 - 63% (est)
15/09/2015 13:29 - 70% (est)
15/09/2015 15:35 - 76% (est)

austin...@hotmail.com

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Sep 15, 2015, 12:14:50 PM9/15/15
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That does'nt mean adding new pads but simply rescrambling existing pads - the current cipher has a shuttle key space of 4,246,500 (checkable) when that is done - and that is the available message length.

You guys are just spooning derogatory questions and answers to each other now - there are none so blind as those who do not want to see! - AOB

Rich

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Sep 15, 2015, 12:49:07 PM9/15/15
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austin...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 at 9:12:52 AM UTC+1, MM wrote:
> > On 2015-09-15 08:06:39 +0000, Karl-Uwe Frank said:
> >
> > > Do you suppose that his ShufflePads will be secure some day in the
> > > future? Even not only because a proper KSA is missing. Therefore I
> > > don't think so - but maybe AOB will surprise me.
> >
> > If the number of pads equals the length of his message, and he never
> > reuses pads - ever, then yes, it will be secure.
> >
> > Unusable, but secure.
> >
> > M
> > --

> That does'nt mean adding new pads but simply rescrambling existing
> pads - the current cipher has a shuttle key space of 4,246,500
> (checkable) when that is done - and that is the available message
> length.

Did you notice the "never reuses pads" part. You have to be certian
that your "simply rescrambling" does not randomly produce a pad you've
previously used.

> You guys are just spooning derogatory questions and answers to each
> other now - there are none so blind as those who do not want to see!
> - AOB

"there are none so blind as those who do not want to see!"

The quote above describes you exactly. You "do not want to see" and
therefore you are blind to what is right before your eyes.

austin...@hotmail.com

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Sep 15, 2015, 12:49:43 PM9/15/15
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On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 at 9:12:52 AM UTC+1, MM wrote:
You are clearly remiss here - I thought I had taught you everything but no it seems you are not up to it and you are quite prepared to sell me down the drain - shame on you - not for not knowing but for your abject disloyalty.

Have you taken your medication today? - AOB

Rich

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Sep 15, 2015, 12:57:33 PM9/15/15
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You don't need anyone to sell you down the drain. You do a perfectly
fine job of selling yourself down the drain with no help from anyone
else.

> Have you taken your medication today? - AOB

See, you are being an arse again.

This is what causes much of your troubles. You can't help but be an
arse 50% of the time.

Richard Heathfield

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Sep 15, 2015, 12:59:15 PM9/15/15
to
On 15/09/2015 17:14, austin...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 at 9:12:52 AM UTC+1, MM wrote:
>> On 2015-09-15 08:06:39 +0000, Karl-Uwe Frank said:
>>
>> > Do you suppose that his ShufflePads will be secure some day in the
>> > future? Even not only because a proper KSA is missing. Therefore I
>> > don't think so - but maybe AOB will surprise me.
>>
>> If the number of pads equals the length of his message, and he never
>> reuses pads - ever, then yes, it will be secure.
>>
>> Unusable, but secure.
>
> That does'nt mean adding new pads but simply rescrambling existing pads - the current cipher has a shuttle key space of 4,246,500 (checkable) when that is done - and that is the available message length.

No, to send a message of 4,246,500 characters securely *in the way that
MM is suggesting*, you would need 4,246,500 pads, which is around
400,000,000 bytes, and you would never be able to re-use those pads.

Still, feel free to try. But I'd only crack it again. I know it,
everyone else here knows it, and - in your heart of hearts - you know it
too.

<unwitting irony snipped>

austin...@hotmail.com

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Sep 15, 2015, 1:10:51 PM9/15/15
to
Okay Mark I withdraw those unseemly comments - I am pleased you have plans to develop your implementation - the figure 4246500 is derived as follows:-

SliceNum_1 : CONSTANT Integer := 31;
StepNum_1 : CONSTANT Integer := 27; --Upstream placemoves
RepeatsNum_1: CONSTANT Integer:= 3; --Repeats
-- scrambling device in 'Load_n_Scramble Pad_1' procedure
-- SliceNum_1 + stepNum_1*RepeatsNum_1 <= 126.

I calculate rather longhandedly that there are 447 combinations of parameters in every key pad - your future programs should have a procedure for capitalising on this and use it to full advantage.

The shuttles are profoundly sensitive to any change in a key pad - try it - RH commented on this also saying how dramatic it could be - I don't know if its in the same context as he means but you will see for your self just by testing one Pad and a corresponding shuttle - I don't think this attribute should be wasted by not programming it in. Remember the possibility of all permutations of Pad is 10^143 - You can check that also.- AOB

MM

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Sep 15, 2015, 1:13:56 PM9/15/15
to
On 2015-09-15 16:14:46 +0000, austin...@hotmail.com said:
> That does'nt mean adding new pads but simply rescrambling existing pads
> - the current cipher has a shuttle key space of 4,246,500 (checkable)
> when that is done - and that is the available message length.

This would be true if your shuffling was any good. It is not.

> You guys are just spooning derogatory questions and answers to each
> other now - there are none so blind as those who do not want to see! -
> AOB

Remember how you screwed up the cipher file upload over the weekend?

Your boneheaded reaction to hearing things that you don't like is
more of the same.

Check more, think more and for crying out loud, learn something!

You are settling down to be a "long in the tooth" old goat who
has nothing to offer but mistakes and misconceptions. You can fix
this by putting in some effort.

M
--



austin...@hotmail.com

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Sep 15, 2015, 1:15:18 PM9/15/15
to
You wouldn't need to!

Also, policing that many pads would be worse than the factoring problem of RSA - you are being endlessly negative - You should cop your self on and stop it. - AOB

austin...@hotmail.com

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Sep 15, 2015, 1:20:57 PM9/15/15
to
Well don't just whinge about it -improve on it - its your program now - I'm out of it - got some really good super-slimmed-down new vector stuff on the way - AOB

Rich

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Sep 15, 2015, 1:22:58 PM9/15/15
to
MM <mrvm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Remember how you screwed up the cipher file upload over the weekend?

> Your boneheaded reaction to hearing things that you don't like is
> more of the same.

> Check more, think more and for crying out loud, learn something!

> You are settling down to be a "long in the tooth" old goat who has
> nothing to offer but mistakes and misconceptions. You can fix this by
> putting in some effort.

I submit that he is already there....


Rich

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Sep 15, 2015, 1:23:28 PM9/15/15
to
It will be crap, just like your other vector stuff is crap.

MM

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Sep 15, 2015, 1:26:32 PM9/15/15
to
On 2015-09-15 17:10:49 +0000, austin...@hotmail.com said:
> SliceNum_1 : CONSTANT Integer := 31;
> StepNum_1 : CONSTANT Integer := 27; --Upstream placemoves
> RepeatsNum_1: CONSTANT Integer:= 3; --Repeats
> -- scrambling device in 'Load_n_Scramble Pad_1' procedure
> -- SliceNum_1 + stepNum_1*RepeatsNum_1 <= 126.
>
> I calculate rather longhandedly that there are 447 combinations of
> parameters in every key pad - your future programs should have a
> procedure for capitalising on this and use it to full advantage.

That means no more than 447 possible shuffles available, per pad.

So given that the pads can be recovered (like RH is doing), the
attacker can calculate all 447 possible shuffled combinations,
and try them all.

That is a *lot* easier than brute force.

This can be done, but it is harder than the easy way.

Richard has already explained the easy way, so I won't do so again.

M
--

Richard Heathfield

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Sep 15, 2015, 1:28:50 PM9/15/15
to
On 15/09/2015 18:15, austin...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 at 5:59:15 PM UTC+1, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>> On 15/09/2015 17:14, austin...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> > On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 at 9:12:52 AM UTC+1, MM wrote:
>> >> On 2015-09-15 08:06:39 +0000, Karl-Uwe Frank said:
>> >>
>> >> > Do you suppose that his ShufflePads will be secure some day in the
>> >> > future? Even not only because a proper KSA is missing. Therefore I
>> >> > don't think so - but maybe AOB will surprise me.
>> >>
>> >> If the number of pads equals the length of his message, and he never
>> >> reuses pads - ever, then yes, it will be secure.
>> >>
>> >> Unusable, but secure.
>> >
>> > That does'nt mean adding new pads but simply rescrambling existing pads - the current cipher has a shuttle key space of 4,246,500 (checkable) when that is done - and that is the available message length.
>>
>> No, to send a message of 4,246,500 characters securely *in the way that
>> MM is suggesting*, you would need 4,246,500 pads, which is around
>> 400,000,000 bytes, and you would never be able to re-use those pads.
>>
>> Still, feel free to try. But I'd only crack it again. I know it,
>> everyone else here knows it, and - in your heart of hearts - you know it
>> too.
>>
>
> You wouldn't need to!

I wouldn't bother, if that's any guide. I have already proved
ShuttlePads is broken.

>
> Also, policing that many pads would be worse than the factoring problem of RSA - you are being endlessly negative - You should cop your self on and stop it. - AOB

Policing that many pads would be unnecessary, because nobody is going to
create them in the first place, because there are much cheaper ways to
do a One-Time Pad than by creating a 95-character pad for every 1
character of message.

Richard Heathfield

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Sep 15, 2015, 1:30:57 PM9/15/15
to
On 15/09/2015 18:20, austin...@hotmail.com wrote:

<snip>

> Well don't just whinge about it -improve on it

That's easy. DEL *.* works just fine. And when that's done, the overall
security of the world's data will actually go up slightly.


> - its your program now - I'm out of it

Very generous.

> - got some really good super-slimmed-down new vector stuff on the way - AOB

No, you haven't. You've got some vector stuff on the way. That's different.

MM

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Sep 15, 2015, 1:32:45 PM9/15/15
to
On 2015-09-15 17:20:52 +0000, austin...@hotmail.com said:
> Well don't just whinge about it -improve on it - its your program now -
> I'm out of it - got some really good super-slimmed-down new vector
> stuff on the way - AOB

If you are really out of it, and you wish to make good on your
capitulation, then stop arguing the bloody toss!

When you chuck in the towel, you don't get to carry on hitting!

Leave with grace, in other words. Right now you are inviting
ridicule.

M
--



Richard Heathfield

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Sep 15, 2015, 9:18:01 PM9/15/15
to
14/09/2015 14:46 - 35% (est)
14/09/2015 18:14 - 42% (est)
14/09/2015 23:02 - 50% (est)
15/09/2015 01:56 - 56% (est)
15/09/2015 11:23 - 63% (est)
15/09/2015 13:29 - 70% (est)
15/09/2015 15:35 - 76% (est)
16/09/2015 02:10 - 80% (measured)

I did something rather stupid. I managed to corrupt the file containing
all the PT/CT pairings. I had a backup (my program produces one
automatically, of course), but I managed to corrupt that too, by not
noticing in time.

Fortunately, I'd posted one heck of a lot of cribs, and of course I had
paper-documented " etaoinshrdlu", which gave me 1,297 CT/PT pairings
that I could restore relatively easily.

I took the opportunity to rewrite some code to eliminate the possibility
(well, reduce the probability) of doing the same thing again, and also
added code to measure exactly how much of the plaintext I have exposed,
instead of relying on the statistics of the reference corpus.

I haven't restored all of my previous guesses - a few got lost in the
wash - but I've added others, and so I've hit the 80% mark.

Just to show that I have still got a genuine decrypt, here's some text
from somewhere in the middle of the file (you will note that I've also
added a feature that shows only known decrypts, with the blanks filled
in by the underscore character):

urrent_ in that there is e_a_tl_ the same _uantit_
o_ electricit_ atone _oint of the _ir_uit as ther
e is at an_ other__he amount o_ ele_tri_it__ or _u
rrent_ _lo_in_ in a _ircuit in ase_ond is _easured
__ a unit _alled the _a__ere__ __ootnote_ _orde_i
nition o_ _am_ere_ see ____endi____ and it is e__r
essed __ thes___ol __ __ootnote_ _his is _e_ause t
he letter _ is used _or thes__bol of __a_a_itan_e_
_ _ust to _i_e _ou an idea o_ the _uantit_ o_curre
nt an _a__ere_ is _e _ill sa_ that a dr_ _ell _hen
_resh _ives acurrent o_ a_out __ a__eres_ _o _eas
ure the current in am_eres aninstru_ent _alled an
_am_eter_ is used_ as sho_n at _ in _i__ ___ andth
is is al_a_s _onne_ted in _series_ _ith the line_
as shown at ____llustration_ _i__ ______o_ the _m_
eter and _olt_eter are _sed___lectro_oti_e _or_e a
nd the _olt____hen _ou ha_e a _i_e _illed _ithwate
r or a cir_uit _har_ed with ele_tri_it_ and _ou _a
nt to _a_e the__lo_ _ou _ust use a ____ in the _ir
st _ase and a _attery or a d_namoin the se_ond _as
e_ _t is the batter_ or d_na_o that sets u_ theele
_tri_ _ressure as the _ircuit itself is alwa_s _ha
r_ed _ithele_tri_it___he _ore _ells _ou _o_nect to
gether in _series_ the _reater _ill _ethe ele_tri_

Rich

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Sep 15, 2015, 9:31:58 PM9/15/15
to
Richard Heathfield <r...@cpax.org.uk> wrote:
> rrent_ _lo_in_ in a _ircuit in ase_ond is _easured
circuit

> _resh _ives acurrent o_ a_out __ a__eres_ _o _eas
to meas
> ure the current in am_eres aninstru_ent _alled an
amperes insrrument called

> as shown at ____llustration_ _i__ ______o_ the _m_
amm
> eter and _olt_eter are _sed___lectro_oti_e _or_e a
voltmeter

> r or a cir_uit _har_ed with ele_tri_it_ and _ou _a
circuit charged electricity

> st _ase and a _attery or a d_namoin the se_ond _as
battery dynamo

> e_ _t is the batter_ or d_na_o that sets u_ theele
battery dynamo up
> _tri_ _ressure as the _ircuit itself is alwa_s _ha
ctric pressure circuit always cha
> r_ed _ithele_tri_it___he _ore _ells _ou _o_nect to
rget

What jumped out at me as possiblities marked above. (use a mono-spaced
font)

Richard Heathfield

unread,
Sep 15, 2015, 9:34:15 PM9/15/15
to
On 16/09/2015 02:30, Rich wrote:

<snip>

> What jumped out at me as possiblities marked above. (use a mono-spaced
> font)

I refer the Right Honorable Gentleman to the first article in this thread:

"You might wonder why I haven't fixed some of the obvious stuff here.
Well, it's because I was too busy fixing /other/ obvious stuff. It takes
time. I'll get there."

But it was a kind thought! :-)

Rich

unread,
Sep 15, 2015, 9:39:26 PM9/15/15
to
Richard Heathfield <r...@cpax.org.uk> wrote:
> On 16/09/2015 02:30, Rich wrote:

> <snip>

> > What jumped out at me as possiblities marked above. (use a mono-spaced
> > font)

> I refer the Right Honorable Gentleman to the first article in this thread:

> "You might wonder why I haven't fixed some of the obvious stuff here.
> Well, it's because I was too busy fixing /other/ obvious stuff. It takes
> time. I'll get there."

> But it was a kind thought! :-)

Oh I know.

Just thought I'd lend a hand, since several did jump out at me while
scanning through it.

I do admit the underscores make an easier time of scanning for
possibilities than the original scrambled letters did.

Richard Heathfield

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Sep 15, 2015, 10:45:54 PM9/15/15
to
14/09/2015 14:46 - 35% (est)
14/09/2015 18:14 - 42% (est)
14/09/2015 23:02 - 50% (est)
15/09/2015 01:56 - 56% (est)
15/09/2015 11:23 - 63% (est)
15/09/2015 13:29 - 70% (est)
15/09/2015 15:35 - 76% (est)
16/09/2015 02:10 - 80% (measured)
16/09/2015 03:44 - 85% (measured)

Karl-Uwe Frank

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Sep 16, 2015, 5:02:44 AM9/16/15
to

Richard Heathfield

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Sep 16, 2015, 5:12:39 AM9/16/15
to
On 16/09/2015 10:02, Karl-Uwe Frank wrote:
> Does that help?
>
> http://www.gutenberg.org/files/6935/6935-h/6935-h.htm

As may be apparent from the trial decrypts I've published, I've been
aware of the identity of the document for some time. I have, however,
been studiously ignoring the fact, because I want this to be a cleanroom
decrypt, so to speak.

Karl-Uwe Frank

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Sep 16, 2015, 5:29:56 AM9/16/15
to
On 16.09.15 11:12, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> On 16/09/2015 10:02, Karl-Uwe Frank wrote:
>> Does that help?
>>
>> http://www.gutenberg.org/files/6935/6935-h/6935-h.htm
>
> As may be apparent from the trial decrypts I've published, I've been
> aware of the identity of the document for some time. I have, however,
> been studiously ignoring the fact, because I want this to be a cleanroom
> decrypt, so to speak.
>
Yes, that's true and a far better and more interesting approach. Maybe
you will end up with a cracking program that can break any ShufflePads
encrypted message in a matter of minutes (or perhaps seconds). All at
all you work is most fascinating and to see one of AOB's cipher
algorithms get broken in public is quite amazing.

Richard Heathfield

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Sep 16, 2015, 6:19:14 AM9/16/15
to
14/09/2015 14:46 - 35% (est)
14/09/2015 18:14 - 42% (est)
14/09/2015 23:02 - 50% (est)
15/09/2015 01:56 - 56% (est)
15/09/2015 11:23 - 63% (est)
15/09/2015 13:29 - 70% (est)
15/09/2015 15:35 - 76% (est)
16/09/2015 02:10 - 80% (measured)
16/09/2015 03:44 - 85% (measured)
16/09/2015 11:17 - 86.355% (measured)

And at this point, I stopped because:

In <a141807f-3adb-413c...@googlegroups.com> which had a
Subject line of "ShuttlePads - Why I cannot yet accept the demonstration
of cryptanalysis by RH", Austin O'Byrne wrote:

"Hi Richard,

Congratulations on completing your cryptanalysis of a file of ciphertext
given to you by MM"

So clearly even AOB thinks that's enough.

And that, folks, means that ShuttlePads has now gone down for the third
time.

Here's another chunk of that 86.355%:

asures 1" by 5/8" by 7/8". An ordinary Umbrella i
s used as an AerialCHAPTER IHOW TO BEGIN WIRELESSI
n writing this book it is taken for granted that y
ou are: _first_,one of the several hundred thousan
d persons in the United States whoare interested i
n wireless telegraphy and telephony; _second_, tha
tyou would like to install an apparatus in your ho
me, and _third_, thatit is all new to you.Now if y
ou live in a city or town large enough to support
anelectrical supply store, there you will find the
necessary apparatuson sale, and someone who can t
ell you what you want to know about itand how it w
orks. If you live away from the marts and hives of
industry you can send to various makers of wireles
s apparatus[Footnote: A list of makers of wireless
apparatus will be found in the_Appendix_.] for th
eir catalogues and price-lists and these will give
you much useful information. But in either case it
is the better planfor you to know before you star
t in to buy an outfit exactly whatapparatus you ne
ed to produce the result you have in mind, and thi
syou can gain in easy steps by reading this book.K
inds of Wireless Systems.--There are two distinct
kinds of wirelesssystems and these are: the _wirel
ess telegraph_ system, and the_wireless telephone_
system. The difference between the wirelesstelegr
aph and the wireless telephone is that the former
transmitsmessages by means of a _telegraph key__ a
nd the latter transmitsconversation and music by m
eans of a _microphone transmitter_. Inother words,
the same difference exists between them in this r
espectas between the Morse telegraph and the Bell
telephone.Parts of a Wireless System.--Every compl
ete wireless station, whethertelegraph or telephon
e, consists of three chief separate and distinctpa
rts and these are: (a) the _aerial wire system__ o
r _antenna_ as itis often called, (b) the _transmi
tter_, or _sender_, and (c) the_receiver_, or, mor
e properly, the _receptor_. The aerial wire isprec
isely the same for either wireless telegraphy or w

Richard Heathfield

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Sep 16, 2015, 8:55:34 PM9/16/15
to
On 16/09/2015 02:37, Rich wrote:

<snip>

> I do admit the underscores make an easier time of scanning for
> possibilities than the original scrambled letters did.

That became true later on, which is why I switched, but in the early
stages the "automated best guess" trial decryption is actually essential
to the method. Otherwise, at the outset we'd have this:

CIPHER: vfa(iJr&20O[_+X\&3
PLAIN: __________________

which isn't helpful!

But once you've got " etaoinshrdlu" more or less right, I think the
automated guesses start to get in the way, and it's time to strip them out.

By the end, here's how I was working.

1) I had a command line program to perform trial decryptions, but (and
this was a key advance) rather than read from the command line
arguments, it would take a three-line text file as input. Line 1
contained (only) a pad number. Line 2 contained (only) a ciphertext
pattern (1 or more ciphertext letters). Line 3 contained (only) a trial
decryption. The program then updated the pairings file, starting at the
given pad number and pairing CT[i] with PT[i] (using the information
supplied in the following two lines), and then advancing the pad number
for the next pairing.

2) I had a command line program to use the pairings file to generate the
ciphertext and guessed plaintext on alternate lines, writing those
results to a file (along with a ruler, to make it easy to see which pad
number belonged to a given column).

3) I had gvim permanently open with two windows - the input file to
program 1 (see above), and the output file from program 2 (see above).

I would look at the output window, use it to determine new pairings, ^WW
to the other window, delete what was there, replace it with, say:

9
gFr&1r\"
rheostat

save the file, Alt-Tab round to the command line, run the first program
(to update the pairings file), run the second program (to create the new
trial decrypt file) - this was of course just a matter of using cursor
keys to recall previous commands - and then Alt-Tab back to gvim, which
would then helpfully remind me that the data on file was newer than the
data being displayed and did I want to load the new data? Which, of
course, I did. And round and round it went.

As an evolving set of tools, it evolved quite well. The workflow became
almost soporifically easy.

ohg gb tb guebhtu gur jubyr zrff bire ntnva jbhyq cebonoyl vaibyir zl
jevgvat n thv nf vg pbhyq gnxr njnl dhvgr n ybg bs gur vavgny cnva

Rich

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Sep 16, 2015, 9:25:08 PM9/16/15
to
Evpuneq Urngusvryq <e...@pcnk.bet.hx> jebgr:
> Ba 16/09/2015 02:37, Evpu jebgr:

> <favc>

> > V qb nqzvg gur haqrefpberf znxr na rnfvre gvzr bs fpnaavat sbe
> > cbffvovyvgvrf guna gur bevtvany fpenzoyrq yrggref qvq.

> Gung orpnzr gehr yngre ba, juvpu vf jul V fjvgpurq, ohg va gur rneyl
> fgntrf gur "nhgbzngrq orfg thrff" gevny qrpelcgvba vf npghnyyl rffragvny
> gb gur zrgubq. Bgurejvfr, ng gur bhgfrg jr'q unir guvf:

> PVCURE: isn(vWe&20B[_+K\&3
> CYNVA: __________________

> juvpu vfa'g urycshy!

> Ohg bapr lbh'ir tbg " rgnbvafueqyh" zber be yrff evtug, V guvax gur
> nhgbzngrq thrffrf fgneg gb trg va gur jnl, naq vg'f gvzr gb fgevc gurz bhg.

Cbvag gnxra. V jnf snvyvat gb pbafvqre gur snpg gung V jnf ybbxvat ng
erfhygf nsgre lbh'q znqr zhpu cebterff ng svaqvat znal cnvevatf.

> Ol gur raq, urer'f ubj V jnf jbexvat.

> ... [ynetr qrfpevcgvba pyvccrq]

> Nf na ribyivat frg bs gbbyf, vg ribyirq dhvgr jryy. Gur jbexsybj orpnzr
> nyzbfg fbcbevsvpnyyl rnfl.

Lrf, naq V'q unir yvxryl fgnegrq bhg va n fvzvyne znaare, jvgu n frg bs
PYV phfgbz gbbyf gb jbex guvatf guebhtu.

> ohg gb tb guebhtu gur jubyr zrff bire ntnva jbhyq cebonoyl vaibyir zl
> jevgvat n thv nf vg pbhyq gnxr njnl dhvgr n ybg bs gur vavgny cnva

Lrf, nterrq ba gung nf jryy, nygubhtu V guvax unq lbh gevrq gb tb THV
svefg, lbh zvtug whfg unir perngrq gur jebat THV. Sbe gnfxf yvxr guvf
vg vf bsgra jbegu gur vavgvny THV-yrff cnva gb tnva n orggre
haqrefgnaqvat bs whfg jung vg vf gur THV arrqf gb gehyl qb gb uryc
erfbyir gur cnva. Na "rng lbhe bja qbtsbbq" fvghngvba bs fbegf.




CF - V jbaqre vs NBO unf nal pyhr ubj gb qrpbqr ebg13? Be sbe
gung znggre, rira jung ebg13 npghnyyl vf?

Richard Heathfield

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Sep 16, 2015, 9:42:08 PM9/16/15
to
On 17/09/2015 02:23, Rich wrote:

<snip>

>
>> ohg gb tb guebhtu gur jubyr zrff bire ntnva jbhyq cebonoyl vaibyir zl
>> jevgvat n thv nf vg pbhyq gnxr njnl dhvgr n ybg bs gur vavgny cnva
>
> Lrf, nterrq ba gung nf jryy, nygubhtu V guvax unq lbh gevrq gb tb THV
> svefg, lbh zvtug whfg unir perngrq gur jebat THV. Sbe gnfxf yvxr guvf
> vg vf bsgra jbegu gur vavgvny THV-yrff cnva gb tnva n orggre
> haqrefgnaqvat bs whfg jung vg vf gur THV arrqf gb gehyl qb gb uryc
> erfbyir gur cnva. Na "rng lbhe bja qbtsbbq" fvghngvba bs fbegf.

vg jnf pregnvayl na vzcbegnag cebprff gb tb guebhtu, unpxvat njnl ng
pbzznaq yvar glcr fghss, naq bs pbhefr vg unf gur terng nqinagntr bs
orvat cbegnoyr gb bgure bcrengvat flfgrzf, ohg vgf vzcbegnapr qrevirq
sebz jung vg unq gb grnpu zr; vg vf pregnvayl abg nf pbzsbegnoyr na
raivebazrag nf n thv pbhyq cebivqr; fb univat yrnearq gubfr yrffbaf,
znlor vgf gvzr gb ybbx ng qrfvtavat gur evtug thv vafgrnq bs, nf lbh
fnl, gur jebat thv. ohg v guvax v jbhyq jnag vg gb or ng yrnfg gb fbzr
rkgrag n pbyynobengvir cebprff jvgu crbcyr puvccvat va vqrnf naq creuncf
pbqr, naq znxvat nyy gung pbzr gbtrgure juvyr cbfgvat va ebgguvegrra
jbhyq or greevoyl phzorefbzr. vg vf vebavp gung urer va f.p v nz fglzvrq
ol n qrfver sbe cevingr pbzzhavpngvbaf nzbatfg n fhotebhc bs guvf arjftebhcf
fhofpevoref naq gur bayl ninvynoyr pelcgb vf ebgguvegrra!

> CF - V jbaqre vs NBO unf nal pyhr ubj gb qrpbqr ebg13? Be sbe
> gung znggre, rira jung ebg13 npghnyyl vf?

bapr ur qvfpbiref jung vg vf, ur jvyy pynvz gb unir vairagrq vg.
jura jr choyvfu penpxf, ur jvyy ng svefg ershfr gb oryvrir vg ohg
riraghnyyl vapernfr gur frphevgl ol qbhoyvat gur crevbq <t>

Rich

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Sep 16, 2015, 11:16:12 PM9/16/15
to
Evpuneq Urngusvryq <e...@pcnk.bet.hx> jebgr:
> Ba 17/09/2015 02:23, Evpu jebgr:

> <favc>

> >
> >> ohg gb tb guebhtu gur jubyr zrff bire ntnva jbhyq cebonoyl vaibyir zl
> >> jevgvat n thv nf vg pbhyq gnxr njnl dhvgr n ybg bs gur vavgny cnva
> >
> > Lrf, nterrq ba gung nf jryy, nygubhtu V guvax unq lbh gevrq gb tb THV
> > svefg, lbh zvtug whfg unir perngrq gur jebat THV. Sbe gnfxf yvxr guvf
> > vg vf bsgra jbegu gur vavgvny THV-yrff cnva gb tnva n orggre
> > haqrefgnaqvat bs whfg jung vg vf gur THV arrqf gb gehyl qb gb uryc
> > erfbyir gur cnva. Na "rng lbhe bja qbtsbbq" fvghngvba bs fbegf.

> vg jnf pregnvayl na vzcbegnag cebprff gb tb guebhtu, unpxvat njnl ng
> pbzznaq yvar glcr fghss, naq bs pbhefr vg unf gur terng nqinagntr bs
> orvat cbegnoyr gb bgure bcrengvat flfgrzf, ohg vgf vzcbegnapr qrevirq
> sebz jung vg unq gb grnpu zr; vg vf pregnvayl abg nf pbzsbegnoyr na
> raivebazrag nf n thv pbhyq cebivqr; fb univat yrnearq gubfr yrffbaf,
> znlor vgf gvzr gb ybbx ng qrfvtavat gur evtug thv vafgrnq bs, nf lbh
> fnl, gur jebat thv. ohg v guvax v jbhyq jnag vg gb or ng yrnfg gb fbzr
> rkgrag n pbyynobengvir cebprff jvgu crbcyr puvccvat va vqrnf naq creuncf
> pbqr,

Uzz... Zr guvaxf V zvtug frr n tvguho ercbfvgbel va lbhe shgher.... :)

Bar rknzcyr gung pbzrf gb zvaq vf lbhe cbfgvat bs lbhe 'ohyx hcqngr' bs
lbhe cnvevatf qngnonfr npebff zhygvcyr cnqf ng bapr. Jvgu n thv bs
PG/CG cnvevatf, bar jbhyq graq gb or yrq gbjneqf bar-ng-n-gvzr hcqngrf
naq vg zvtug gnxr n juvyr orsber bar ernyvmrq gurer jnf n orggre jnl.

> naq znxvat nyy gung pbzr gbtrgure juvyr cbfgvat va ebgguvegrra jbhyq
> or greevoyl phzorefbzr. vg vf vebavp gung urer va f.p v nz fglzvrq ol
> n qrfver sbe cevingr pbzzhavpngvbaf nzbatfg n fhotebhc bs guvf
> arjftebhcf fhofpevoref naq gur bayl ninvynoyr pelcgb vf ebgguvegrra!

Jryy gehr, ohg vg vf na 'rapelcgvba' gb juvpu jr nyy, rkprcg znlor bar
NBO, nyernql unir gur funerq xrl...


> > CF - V jbaqre vs NBO unf nal pyhr ubj gb qrpbqr ebg13? Be sbe
> > gung znggre, rira jung ebg13 npghnyyl vf?

> bapr ur qvfpbiref jung vg vf, ur jvyy pynvz gb unir vairagrq vg.
> jura jr choyvfu penpxf, ur jvyy ng svefg ershfr gb oryvrir vg ohg
> riraghnyyl vapernfr gur frphevgl ol qbhoyvat gur crevbq <t>

EBSYZNB

Richard Heathfield

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Sep 16, 2015, 11:36:31 PM9/16/15
to
On 17/09/2015 04:14, Rich wrote:

<snip>

> Uzz... Zr guvaxf V zvtug frr n tvguho ercbfvgbel va lbhe shgher.... :)

Jryy, abg fb fher nobhg tvguho, arire qvq gehfg pybhq fgbentr! jnf
guvaxvat nobhg obeynaq pcyhfcyhfohvyqre ohg gung zvtug abg syl irel jryy
jvgu crbcyr jub qbag unir vg, fb guvf znl or bar bs gubfr gvzrf jura bar
npghnyyl trgf gb jevgr angvir jvaqbjf pbqr, juvpu pbhyq or sha va vgf
bja jnl. vg jbhyq cebonoyl nyfb znxr vg rnfvre sbe crbcyr jub jnagrq gb
ervzcyrzrag vg ba yvahk (yvahk thv vf fbzrguvat vir gevrq naq sbe fbzr
ernfba whfg qbag trg vg)

lbh ner evtug gung gur pebff-fgevcr hcqngr cebonoyl jbhyqag unir
bppheerq gb zr vs thv unq orra gur fgnegvat cynpr ohg abj gung vg unf
bppheerq gb zr gurer vf ab ernfba abg gb vapyhqr vg

irel fgenatr gb or jevgvat nyy ybjre pnfr, abg zhpu chapghngvba,
qryvorengryl nibvqvat zbabyrggre jbeqf, naq fb ba, rfcrpvnyyl nf urf
obhaq gb pngpu ba riraghnyyl, vfa'g ur?

dunno

unread,
Sep 16, 2015, 11:55:53 PM9/16/15
to
Richard Heathfield <r...@cpax.org.uk> wrote:
> On 17/09/2015 04:14, Rich wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> Uzz... Zr guvaxf V zvtug frr n tvguho ercbfvgbel va lbhe shgher.... :)
>
> Jryy, abg fb fher nobhg tvguho, arire qvq gehfg pybhq fgbentr! jnf
> guvaxvat nobhg obeynaq pcyhfcyhfohvyqre ohg gung zvtug abg syl irel jryy
> jvgu crbcyr jub qbag unir vg, fb guvf znl or bar bs gubfr gvzrf jura bar
> npghnyyl trgf gb jevgr angvir jvaqbjf pbqr, juvpu pbhyq or sha va vgf bja
> jnl. vg jbhyq cebonoyl nyfb znxr vg rnfvre sbe crbcyr jub jnagrq gb
> ervzcyrzrag vg ba yvahk (yvahk thv vf fbzrguvat vir gevrq naq sbe fbzr
> ernfba whfg qbag trg vg)
>
> lbh ner evtug gung gur pebff-fgevcr hcqngr cebonoyl jbhyqag unir bppheerq
> gb zr vs thv unq orra gur fgnegvat cynpr ohg abj gung vg unf bppheerq gb
> zr gurer vf ab ernfba abg gb vapyhqr vg
>
> irel fgenatr gb or jevgvat nyy ybjre pnfr, abg zhpu chapghngvba,
> qryvorengryl nibvqvat zbabyrggre jbeqf, naq fb ba, rfcrpvnyyl nf urf
> obhaq gb pngpu ba riraghnyyl, vfa'g ur?

I would suggest to separate GUI and actual code if it can be done easily,
so there is possibility to do the work without GUI in presence.

--
dunno

Richard Heathfield

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Sep 17, 2015, 12:00:02 AM9/17/15
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I would never have thought of that.

Rich

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Sep 17, 2015, 6:15:36 AM9/17/15
to
Evpuneq Urngusvryq <e...@pcnk.bet.hx> jebgr:
> Ba 17/09/2015 04:14, Evpu jebgr:

> <favc>

> > Uzz... Zr guvaxf V zvtug frr n tvguho ercbfvgbel va lbhe shgher....
> > :)

> Jryy, abg fb fher nobhg tvguho, arire qvq gehfg pybhq fgbentr!

jryy, gehr, gur nqinagntr jvgu 'tvg' vf gung gur 'pybhq' vf whfg
nabgure fgbentr naq rnpu crefba jub unf n pybar bs gur tvg ercbfvgbel
unf n shyy pbcl bs rirelguvat va vg, fb rira vs gur pybhq gheaf qnex
naq oybjf njnl, nyy gung vf ybfg vf gur prageny ybpngvba, engure guna
rirelguvat.

> jnf guvaxvat nobhg obeynaq pcyhfcyhfohvyqre ohg gung zvtug abg syl
> irel jryy jvgu crbcyr jub qbag unir vg,

qba'g xabj gung bar, naq lrf, bguref znl be znl abg unir na vffhr,

> fb guvf znl or bar bs gubfr gvzrf jura bar npghnyyl trgf gb jevgr
> angvir jvaqbjf pbqr, juvpu pbhyq or sha va vgf bja jnl.

v jbhyq abg pnyy 'angvir jvaqbjf pbqr' sha, ohg gung'f zr

> vg jbhyq cebonoyl nyfb znxr vg rnfvre sbe crbcyr jub jnagrq gb
> ervzcyrzrag vg ba yvahk

npghnyyl, jvaqbjf vf fb inevnag va vgf ncv if gur havkrf gung jevgvat
angvir jvaqbjf svefg znxrf gur cbegvat zhpu uneqre.

> (yvahk thv vf fbzrguvat vir gevrq naq sbe fbzr ernfba whfg qbag trg
> vg)

sbe jung vgf jbegu, gur gx thv yvoenel gung fuvcf jvgu gpy vf na
nznmvatyl pebff cyngsbez yvoenel, hayrff bar tbrf bhg bs barf jnl gb
gel gb or vapbzcngvoyr vg vf nyzbfg nyjnlf jevgr bapr, eha ba yvahk,
jva, znp hapunatrq, vg nyfb vagresnprf irel jryy jvgu p naq yvxryl
pcyhfcyhf fvapr vg jnf bevtvanyyl qrfvtarq gb or na rzorqqnoyr zbqhyr
sbe ynetre p cebtenzf

sbe zl rknzcyr gpy fuhggyrcnqf vg jbhyq unir yvxryl erdhverq ab zber
guna nobhg gjraglsvir-guvegl zber yvarf bs pbqr gb unir znqr vg n shyyl
pbzovangvba pyv/thv cebtenz (v.r., n pyv jura eha nf n pyv, naq n thv
bgurejvfr)

> lbh ner evtug gung gur pebff-fgevcr hcqngr cebonoyl jbhyqag unir
> bppheerq gb zr vs thv unq orra gur fgnegvat cynpr ohg abj gung vg unf
> bppheerq gb zr gurer vf ab ernfba abg gb vapyhqr vg

pregvnayl, gung vf n irel hfrshy naq cbjreshy srngher bapr bar unf frra
vg vf hfrshy, vg vf gur tbvat guebhtu gur jbex fbzrgvzrf gung yrnqf bar
gb frrvat gubfr hfrshy fubegphgf

> irel fgenatr gb or jevgvat nyy ybjre pnfr, abg zhpu chapghngvba,
> qryvorengryl nibvqvat zbabyrggre jbeqf, naq fb ba, rfcrpvnyyl nf urf
> obhaq gb pngpu ba riraghnyyl, vfa'g ur?

jryy, lrnu vg vf qvssrerag va znal jnlf. nf sbe uvz pngpuvat ba
riraghnyyl, gurerf n punapr bs gung, nygubhtu zber yvxryl fbzrbar ryfr
jvyy pyhr uvz va engure guna uvz pngpuvat ba,

ur unf qvfcynlrq fhpu na nfgbhaqvat vtabenapr bs pelcgbtencul naq bs
ubj gb nggnpx n pvcure naq nf jryy bs ubj gb hfr n pbzchgre va vgf zbfg
onfvp sbez gung vz abg fb pregvna ur jbhyq rire pngpu ba ol uvzfrys

Rich

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Sep 17, 2015, 6:19:25 AM9/17/15
to
qhaab <qh...@qhaab.qhaab> jebgr:
> Evpuneq Urngusvryq <e...@pcnk.bet.hx> jebgr:
> > Ba 17/09/2015 04:14, Evpu jebgr:
> >
> > <favc>
> >
> >> Uzz... Zr guvaxf V zvtug frr n tvguho ercbfvgbel va lbhe shgher.... :)
> >
> > Jryy, abg fb fher nobhg tvguho, arire qvq gehfg pybhq fgbentr! jnf
> > guvaxvat nobhg obeynaq pcyhfcyhfohvyqre ohg gung zvtug abg syl irel jryy
> > jvgu crbcyr jub qbag unir vg, fb guvf znl or bar bs gubfr gvzrf jura bar
> > npghnyyl trgf gb jevgr angvir jvaqbjf pbqr, juvpu pbhyq or sha va vgf bja
> > jnl. vg jbhyq cebonoyl nyfb znxr vg rnfvre sbe crbcyr jub jnagrq gb
> > ervzcyrzrag vg ba yvahk (yvahk thv vf fbzrguvat vir gevrq naq sbe fbzr
> > ernfba whfg qbag trg vg)
> >
> > lbh ner evtug gung gur pebff-fgevcr hcqngr cebonoyl jbhyqag unir bppheerq
> > gb zr vs thv unq orra gur fgnegvat cynpr ohg abj gung vg unf bppheerq gb
> > zr gurer vf ab ernfba abg gb vapyhqr vg
> >
> > irel fgenatr gb or jevgvat nyy ybjre pnfr, abg zhpu chapghngvba,
> > qryvorengryl nibvqvat zbabyrggre jbeqf, naq fb ba, rfcrpvnyyl nf urf
> > obhaq gb pngpu ba riraghnyyl, vfa'g ur?

> V jbhyq fhttrfg gb frcnengr THV naq npghny pbqr vs vg pna or qbar rnfvyl,
> fb gurer vf cbffvovyvgl gb qb gur jbex jvgubhg THV va cerfrapr.

lbh sbetbg gb ebgguvegrra orsber lbh cbfgrq lbhe sbyybjhc

gung vf n tbbq fhttrfgvba, nf zhpu bs gur pch urnil yvsg pna or qbar ba
pyv gbbyf, juvpu nyybjf qvfgevohgvat gur jbex be ehaavat ba urnqyrff
freiref

vg erdhverf n ovg bs erfgehpghevat bs gur pbqr, ohg abg gbb zhpu. znxr
gur ohyx bs gur pbqr n yvoenel, gura gur pyv naq thv pbqrf orpbzr whfg
fxryrgbaf gung pnyy vagb gur yvoenel pbqr

Karl-Uwe Frank

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Sep 17, 2015, 7:28:20 AM9/17/15
to
On 17.09.15 12:13, Rich wrote:
>> (yvahk thv vf fbzrguvat vir gevrq naq sbe fbzr ernfba whfg qbag trg
>> vg)
> sbe jung vgf jbegu, gur gx thv yvoenel gung fuvcf jvgu gpy vf na
> nznmvatyl pebff cyngsbez yvoenel, hayrff bar tbrf bhg bs barf jnl gb
> gel gb or vapbzcngvoyr vg vf nyzbfg nyjnlf jevgr bapr, eha ba yvahk,
> jva, znp hapunatrq, vg nyfb vagresnprf irel jryy jvgu p naq yvxryl
> pcyhfcyhf fvapr vg jnf bevtvanyyl qrfvtarq gb or na rzorqqnoyr zbqhyr
> sbe ynetre p cebtenzf
>
zrnajuvyr nsgre tvira gpy/gx, clguba, frireny pebff-cyngsbez onfvp
qvnyrpgf, rgp. n gel v cersre wnin.
vg vf arneyl nf vs pbqvat va p/p++, gehyl pebff-cyngsbez, rira sbe
fznegcubar naq gnoyrgf naq fhecevfvatyl dhvgr snfg.

fcyvggvat gur pbqr vagb n yvoenel sbe pyv naq thv vf nyfb n fvzcyr gnfx.
creuncf cnpxvat gur wnin raivebazrag vagb gur ncc zvtug or arprffnel.

red floyd

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Sep 17, 2015, 12:58:55 PM9/17/15
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You guys should be using *DOUBLE* rot13. It's TWICE as secure!!!

D. Aaron Sawyer

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Sep 17, 2015, 1:57:09 PM9/17/15
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Lbh ner evtug! Gunaxf sbe gur qrzbafgengvba!

dunno

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Sep 17, 2015, 5:54:24 PM9/17/15
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I didn't forget. I'm currently accessing Internet through cellphone, and
I'm on roaming. My client provides ability to read, but not to write in
this case, and I'm not willing to visit any web pages (because of the
roaming.) Sorry about that.

P.S. Yes, I was thinking of headless servers when I writing my post.

--
dunno
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