ShuttlePads SP-MM Ciphertext-Only Challenge - news from the front line
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Richard Heathfield
Sep 14, 2015, 9:46:48 AM9/14/15
to
On Friday afternoon or evening, MM posted a ciphertext that had been
encrypted with ShuttlePads. It comprises 193100 bytes altogether. Since
then, I have been cryptanalysing it, using the traditional way to attack
a polyalphabetic substitution cipher - i.e. Kasiski, striping, frequency
analysis, and then the Mark I eyeball (assisted, I might add, by some
minor home-made software tools).
Rather than scatter progress reports all over every thread, it seemed to
me that those who are interested in how I'm getting along might prefer
to have just one thread to check. So here it is.
STEP 1: Kasiski
Did that, key length is 100. I knew that anyway because it's public
knowledge, but it's best to check these things. (AOB threw me a couple
of times by changing the number of pads when I wasn't watching.)
STEP 2: Striping and Frequency Analysis
Did that. Compared each stripe's freqanalysis to a reference text (I
used Shakespeare, I think). That gave me a bunch of starting candidates
for PT/CT pairs, of which there are 9500 altogether (not four million, a
figure I have seen bandied about the group recently in this context).
STEP 3: A few guesses
I started off by looking for " t.e " patterns (the spaces matter!),
which I filled with " the ". Next I tried " th.t ", which I filled with
" that ". This gave me reasonable assurance of a, e, h, t. Then I went
to " have " but I realised I was quickly reaching the point of
diminishing returns.
STEP 4: Some more guesses
I found, and posted, a few cribs, such as "United States",
"sensitivity", "rheostat". But I found that I was progressing slowly
because I was often undoing correct pairings when incorrectly guessing
new pairings (because of the swapover technique used by the program I
wrote to update my record of current pairings).
STEP 5: Focusing on the essentials
I realised that I could make better progress if I proceeded through one
stripe at a time. It was folly to imagine that I could do an entire
stripe before moving onto the next one, but I felt reasonably confident
of getting " etaoinshrdlu" out of each stripe, and so that's the path
I've taken. These 13 characters represent an astounding 70% of English
language plaintexts, so I felt that cracking these would give me a head
start. And so it proved.
From Step 4, it just happened that a lot of my correct guesses had
appeared in columns 60-80, so I started there and worked rightward,
reaching column 99 some time last night. This morning, I started moving
leftward from column 60, and having finished column 50 I now have 649
correct " etaoinshrdlu" pairings. (Yeah, I know. I couldn't find a
ciphertext match for 'u' in column 98. It'll come out in the wash.)
So I've recovered roughly 35% of the plaintext so far (because 70% *
50/100 = 35%).
Below are my current guesses as to the first 5,000 bytes of the file
(posting the whole 193,100 would be pointless and antisocial). I've
split each 100-character line in two, so that it won't do stupid wrappy
things in Usenet. Since the last 50 characters are the ones I've been
focusing on so far, you should find that you get a line of gibberish
followed by a line of, well, not-quite-gibberish. What I hope you will
also notice is that, very often, you are able to read a word even though
one or two of the letters in that word are wrong. And that's the whole
point - that's how the crack works. For example, near the end of the
following extract you will find the word "rtraaghtfircard", which is
obviously "straightforward". (I must go and fill that in.) That gives me
four new correct PT/CT pairings right there, which of course I
automatically propagate through the rest of their respective stripes,
giving me further crib opportunities later on.
And something /else/ you might notice is that some of these lines are
actually complete! (That is, even the non-" etaoinshrdlu" stuff is
done.) That's partly because occasionally I get distracted and go fix
other stuff, and partly because setting up " etaoinshrdlu" correctly has
a knock-on effect on other characters, which (occasionally) fall
magically into place. But mostly it's because I get distracted. The
knock-on effect will become significant later, though, as the other Rich
has pointed out recently.
You might wonder why I haven't fixed some of the obvious stuff here.
Well, it's because I was too busy fixing /other/ obvious stuff. It takes
time. I'll get there.
The Yriqect Umtenfes, 11ooR id the Oadao T.atemmqs
Wand BooSBy E. Frederick CollinsCopyright laws ar
e ch ncoiy adu iger the foiluI !e rmor ts uhecT th
ecopyright laws for your Nountry before downloadin
g orrreusrtrntut nwiiir or any other GtoPeut Umten
ferg eBooS.This header should be the first thing s
een wher vie.inwithtr Wno]edt)mveibeo. dileI Plea
se do not remove it. Do not change or edit thehea
der without .litten peacsariinIMueair tead the jie
wal small Irint,z and other information about thee
;noSranu Nro:ecti'yisngeim at the bottom of thir y
ile, Lncluded isimportant information about your
sfemimac oiwhcs and oertiictoras onhhw the wide ya
y Ie usedP You can also find out about how to mak
e auonotssn to BsoWelt VmtercerwA and how to get i
nvolved.j9Welcome To The World of Lree Plain ,anil
ll Cmedtnsnic SePts:zjJeMooTs Weadagur Jp Both -uf
ans and By Computers. SinNe 'YYj--1:x:jThese eUook
s Qeae Dnepared B, Eiodrands r, WnlmnteerrJJQJzQEi
tleW Ihe kadio Amateur's Hand BookAuthorx EI Arede
rocSr-idlinsCeleaie 'ateY HovefIesu MOv[ DkHooT K
'PW;-qThis file was first posted on February FMA D
Ev11;datssnY WpDanw,aweH Ynfdinhkharalfer set enlo
dingP STO;qzxJ STAkT MI EHR U;OZ[CT GQE'F;LT] ;Y;W
Qb A!N CB(L: AGOERYN?; BTFM zYkq ?z[;eoumcey bg Tl
an !illar and the Online Distributed Proofreading
TeaIu!Asansuribes]s RoteY The ouumrtoifwsns have b
een included withanother version of this work. The
o.age ,sles have besn aaweuon a rtraaghtfircard f
anner that corresponds to the numbering inthe teGt
P thdsp Dllmicratson ! ir srllmled as ywle j.iy;OC
bpngzAwhile Illustration OAk Bv is included as fil
e -fi.'UkaIysg:c?AMD LvFB; S[OvN-L:' VTNk BR:QUAil
ustrationD K, Frederick Collins, Inventor of the R
irelesspeleyhoney EF]PE T,anuel ;nlu Weual wor rof
eL ElasCa 1uOon DacificJxpositionA TDD8.GTWL WTCEW
RBEENUCJR [EJH BjC?S 'o,pmetep Smthrnfwd anu fn,o
rmative Uor. on Wireless Telegraphy andTelephonyQK
Oy kNNCPLMRV NBD;H]pUnpenton r, the 'ateless Aele,
hone 'zJJZ Historian of Iireless;BWT'18;OY Author
oi (Wireless Telegraphbj CzM?Ek'OMxLTW LWBkRk'fB;P
-ENN MK S-x WO;B-EBS TW9TBWNUHHFTSH?;SEFCMBefore d
eugis. oito the f,sisrler oy oeceovsn. nnd senlsn.
messageswithout wires, a word as to the history o
f the ost anu itr mssseat dayayyuocataoio .ag Be o
p serviceP ;hile popular interest in the subjectha
s yose ,oowarr gc leayr and crmnmr yithwn the dast
two or threeyears, it has been a matter of scient
iiimreF.eoigent ,or woae than sDdaitre og a lentur
y.Ehe wireless telegraph was invented by William N
arcosip at !ou)wnakRtaimI sr kxxDw and wn hin wsrs
t experiments he sent dot and dashsignals to a dis
tlnme i, KgT or US' .eet. The wireless telephone w
asinvented by the author of this book at MarberthI
Uenscp sn RY!Xnianuen hsa yoonv eN,reaments the h
uman voice was transmitted to a distanceof three b
lncSncAhe ,irst gstad eMweii,eavs that led up to t
he invention of thewireless telegraph were made by
Feisrach Merconio, WeacanlA ia UYU-fhei he nhowed
that the spark of an induction coil set up electr
icosliudatioss sn an ofen circmitw and that the en
ergy o, these waveswas, in turn, sent out in the f
or. om electric .aperf Be alsr shnfedho, theg uoul
d Ie received at a distanNe by means of a ring det
ectoaAwhsch he uauleu s EresinsvosELn K]!SI Cm.ard
Nranly, of Rrance, showed that metal filings in a
tmbeliheoed .hen elsdtnsl gaTes actrd on the.p on
d this device he termed aEradio conductorIK this w
as ic,rnvey m,)oifc Oia HdsIeo Fod,eb ihscadrel dt
a coherer. In ;)J!, Alexander 1opoffE of Russia.
nnnstrmcteya leuespthw ret yio vhe itmdb of atIos,
heric electricityS and thisarrangement was the ear
loest ir oeuold om iie .re oI s meteltordoonectem
.ith an aerial and the earth,Marconi was the first
to lonrect an aeriad to one sole of i s.arN ga,on
d a ground to the other side of it. He used an ind
uction coil toeoerwtqe the s.arS ga,b siu a tedecr
aph key in the primary circuit tobreak up the curr
eat intn riwsalrI Luuing s -ione secisfery fhiuhfr
inted the dot and dash messages on a tape, to the
Mn,o,m seceytor hemsnmddeu the .isrt sAste. .or se
nding and receiving wireless telegraphmessages,DEl
l,staatoonC boll nsK Nlnedess veueyhhne G'hiIitem
at the MadisonSquare GardenS October 1898AUAfter N
arcosi ham shofoithe condu hi, vo teurgrawh citham
t connectingwires it would seem, on first thoughtI
to fe ai eaiw .atteo toteme.hine fsthoat ,isesE b
ut not som for the electric spark sets updamIed an
d ,eaiiusc oidillattnnr and these cannot be msed y
ortransmitting speech. Instead, the oscillations m
ust fe n. cosstantamplltmue anl lnntinmomrg Shat a
direct current arc light transforms apart of its
eaergf oito eueutrid ordsdmatiins fas nhsmo If 'dr
th andRogersA of EnglandA in .?q!#The author was t
he first to conoelt an sil la.y .oth ir aeriad and
agroundA and to use a miNrophone transmitter to m
odml te the imstasneuordsdmatiins ro set upI Ahe r
eceiving aIparatus consisted of avariable contactI
Onown ar a p,illpboCA uetedtrrb chslh Bis RriverD
odge had devised. and to this was connected an -ri
--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within
encrypted with ShuttlePads. It comprises 193100 bytes altogether. Since
then, I have been cryptanalysing it, using the traditional way to attack
a polyalphabetic substitution cipher - i.e. Kasiski, striping, frequency
analysis, and then the Mark I eyeball (assisted, I might add, by some
minor home-made software tools).
Rather than scatter progress reports all over every thread, it seemed to
me that those who are interested in how I'm getting along might prefer
to have just one thread to check. So here it is.
STEP 1: Kasiski
Did that, key length is 100. I knew that anyway because it's public
knowledge, but it's best to check these things. (AOB threw me a couple
of times by changing the number of pads when I wasn't watching.)
STEP 2: Striping and Frequency Analysis
Did that. Compared each stripe's freqanalysis to a reference text (I
used Shakespeare, I think). That gave me a bunch of starting candidates
for PT/CT pairs, of which there are 9500 altogether (not four million, a
figure I have seen bandied about the group recently in this context).
STEP 3: A few guesses
I started off by looking for " t.e " patterns (the spaces matter!),
which I filled with " the ". Next I tried " th.t ", which I filled with
" that ". This gave me reasonable assurance of a, e, h, t. Then I went
to " have " but I realised I was quickly reaching the point of
diminishing returns.
STEP 4: Some more guesses
I found, and posted, a few cribs, such as "United States",
"sensitivity", "rheostat". But I found that I was progressing slowly
because I was often undoing correct pairings when incorrectly guessing
new pairings (because of the swapover technique used by the program I
wrote to update my record of current pairings).
STEP 5: Focusing on the essentials
I realised that I could make better progress if I proceeded through one
stripe at a time. It was folly to imagine that I could do an entire
stripe before moving onto the next one, but I felt reasonably confident
of getting " etaoinshrdlu" out of each stripe, and so that's the path
I've taken. These 13 characters represent an astounding 70% of English
language plaintexts, so I felt that cracking these would give me a head
start. And so it proved.
From Step 4, it just happened that a lot of my correct guesses had
appeared in columns 60-80, so I started there and worked rightward,
reaching column 99 some time last night. This morning, I started moving
leftward from column 60, and having finished column 50 I now have 649
correct " etaoinshrdlu" pairings. (Yeah, I know. I couldn't find a
ciphertext match for 'u' in column 98. It'll come out in the wash.)
So I've recovered roughly 35% of the plaintext so far (because 70% *
50/100 = 35%).
Below are my current guesses as to the first 5,000 bytes of the file
(posting the whole 193,100 would be pointless and antisocial). I've
split each 100-character line in two, so that it won't do stupid wrappy
things in Usenet. Since the last 50 characters are the ones I've been
focusing on so far, you should find that you get a line of gibberish
followed by a line of, well, not-quite-gibberish. What I hope you will
also notice is that, very often, you are able to read a word even though
one or two of the letters in that word are wrong. And that's the whole
point - that's how the crack works. For example, near the end of the
following extract you will find the word "rtraaghtfircard", which is
obviously "straightforward". (I must go and fill that in.) That gives me
four new correct PT/CT pairings right there, which of course I
automatically propagate through the rest of their respective stripes,
giving me further crib opportunities later on.
And something /else/ you might notice is that some of these lines are
actually complete! (That is, even the non-" etaoinshrdlu" stuff is
done.) That's partly because occasionally I get distracted and go fix
other stuff, and partly because setting up " etaoinshrdlu" correctly has
a knock-on effect on other characters, which (occasionally) fall
magically into place. But mostly it's because I get distracted. The
knock-on effect will become significant later, though, as the other Rich
has pointed out recently.
You might wonder why I haven't fixed some of the obvious stuff here.
Well, it's because I was too busy fixing /other/ obvious stuff. It takes
time. I'll get there.
The Yriqect Umtenfes, 11ooR id the Oadao T.atemmqs
Wand BooSBy E. Frederick CollinsCopyright laws ar
e ch ncoiy adu iger the foiluI !e rmor ts uhecT th
ecopyright laws for your Nountry before downloadin
g orrreusrtrntut nwiiir or any other GtoPeut Umten
ferg eBooS.This header should be the first thing s
een wher vie.inwithtr Wno]edt)mveibeo. dileI Plea
se do not remove it. Do not change or edit thehea
der without .litten peacsariinIMueair tead the jie
wal small Irint,z and other information about thee
;noSranu Nro:ecti'yisngeim at the bottom of thir y
ile, Lncluded isimportant information about your
sfemimac oiwhcs and oertiictoras onhhw the wide ya
y Ie usedP You can also find out about how to mak
e auonotssn to BsoWelt VmtercerwA and how to get i
nvolved.j9Welcome To The World of Lree Plain ,anil
ll Cmedtnsnic SePts:zjJeMooTs Weadagur Jp Both -uf
ans and By Computers. SinNe 'YYj--1:x:jThese eUook
s Qeae Dnepared B, Eiodrands r, WnlmnteerrJJQJzQEi
tleW Ihe kadio Amateur's Hand BookAuthorx EI Arede
rocSr-idlinsCeleaie 'ateY HovefIesu MOv[ DkHooT K
'PW;-qThis file was first posted on February FMA D
Ev11;datssnY WpDanw,aweH Ynfdinhkharalfer set enlo
dingP STO;qzxJ STAkT MI EHR U;OZ[CT GQE'F;LT] ;Y;W
Qb A!N CB(L: AGOERYN?; BTFM zYkq ?z[;eoumcey bg Tl
an !illar and the Online Distributed Proofreading
TeaIu!Asansuribes]s RoteY The ouumrtoifwsns have b
een included withanother version of this work. The
o.age ,sles have besn aaweuon a rtraaghtfircard f
anner that corresponds to the numbering inthe teGt
P thdsp Dllmicratson ! ir srllmled as ywle j.iy;OC
bpngzAwhile Illustration OAk Bv is included as fil
e -fi.'UkaIysg:c?AMD LvFB; S[OvN-L:' VTNk BR:QUAil
ustrationD K, Frederick Collins, Inventor of the R
irelesspeleyhoney EF]PE T,anuel ;nlu Weual wor rof
eL ElasCa 1uOon DacificJxpositionA TDD8.GTWL WTCEW
RBEENUCJR [EJH BjC?S 'o,pmetep Smthrnfwd anu fn,o
rmative Uor. on Wireless Telegraphy andTelephonyQK
Oy kNNCPLMRV NBD;H]pUnpenton r, the 'ateless Aele,
hone 'zJJZ Historian of Iireless;BWT'18;OY Author
oi (Wireless Telegraphbj CzM?Ek'OMxLTW LWBkRk'fB;P
-ENN MK S-x WO;B-EBS TW9TBWNUHHFTSH?;SEFCMBefore d
eugis. oito the f,sisrler oy oeceovsn. nnd senlsn.
messageswithout wires, a word as to the history o
f the ost anu itr mssseat dayayyuocataoio .ag Be o
p serviceP ;hile popular interest in the subjectha
s yose ,oowarr gc leayr and crmnmr yithwn the dast
two or threeyears, it has been a matter of scient
iiimreF.eoigent ,or woae than sDdaitre og a lentur
y.Ehe wireless telegraph was invented by William N
arcosip at !ou)wnakRtaimI sr kxxDw and wn hin wsrs
t experiments he sent dot and dashsignals to a dis
tlnme i, KgT or US' .eet. The wireless telephone w
asinvented by the author of this book at MarberthI
Uenscp sn RY!Xnianuen hsa yoonv eN,reaments the h
uman voice was transmitted to a distanceof three b
lncSncAhe ,irst gstad eMweii,eavs that led up to t
he invention of thewireless telegraph were made by
Feisrach Merconio, WeacanlA ia UYU-fhei he nhowed
that the spark of an induction coil set up electr
icosliudatioss sn an ofen circmitw and that the en
ergy o, these waveswas, in turn, sent out in the f
or. om electric .aperf Be alsr shnfedho, theg uoul
d Ie received at a distanNe by means of a ring det
ectoaAwhsch he uauleu s EresinsvosELn K]!SI Cm.ard
Nranly, of Rrance, showed that metal filings in a
tmbeliheoed .hen elsdtnsl gaTes actrd on the.p on
d this device he termed aEradio conductorIK this w
as ic,rnvey m,)oifc Oia HdsIeo Fod,eb ihscadrel dt
a coherer. In ;)J!, Alexander 1opoffE of Russia.
nnnstrmcteya leuespthw ret yio vhe itmdb of atIos,
heric electricityS and thisarrangement was the ear
loest ir oeuold om iie .re oI s meteltordoonectem
.ith an aerial and the earth,Marconi was the first
to lonrect an aeriad to one sole of i s.arN ga,on
d a ground to the other side of it. He used an ind
uction coil toeoerwtqe the s.arS ga,b siu a tedecr
aph key in the primary circuit tobreak up the curr
eat intn riwsalrI Luuing s -ione secisfery fhiuhfr
inted the dot and dash messages on a tape, to the
Mn,o,m seceytor hemsnmddeu the .isrt sAste. .or se
nding and receiving wireless telegraphmessages,DEl
l,staatoonC boll nsK Nlnedess veueyhhne G'hiIitem
at the MadisonSquare GardenS October 1898AUAfter N
arcosi ham shofoithe condu hi, vo teurgrawh citham
t connectingwires it would seem, on first thoughtI
to fe ai eaiw .atteo toteme.hine fsthoat ,isesE b
ut not som for the electric spark sets updamIed an
d ,eaiiusc oidillattnnr and these cannot be msed y
ortransmitting speech. Instead, the oscillations m
ust fe n. cosstantamplltmue anl lnntinmomrg Shat a
direct current arc light transforms apart of its
eaergf oito eueutrid ordsdmatiins fas nhsmo If 'dr
th andRogersA of EnglandA in .?q!#The author was t
he first to conoelt an sil la.y .oth ir aeriad and
agroundA and to use a miNrophone transmitter to m
odml te the imstasneuordsdmatiins ro set upI Ahe r
eceiving aIparatus consisted of avariable contactI
Onown ar a p,illpboCA uetedtrrb chslh Bis RriverD
odge had devised. and to this was connected an -ri
--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within
Richard Heathfield
Sep 14, 2015, 1:15:39 PM9/14/15
to
On 14/09/2015 14:46, Richard Heathfield wrote:
<snip>
> So I've recovered roughly 35% of the plaintext so far (because 70% *
> 50/100 = 35%).
Okay, so that's:
14/09/2015 14:46 - 35% (est)
14/09/2015 18:14 - 42% (est)
That's another 7% in three and a half hours (most of which time was
spent doing other things!).
<snip>
> So I've recovered roughly 35% of the plaintext so far (because 70% *
> 50/100 = 35%).
14/09/2015 14:46 - 35% (est)
14/09/2015 18:14 - 42% (est)
That's another 7% in three and a half hours (most of which time was
spent doing other things!).
austin...@hotmail.com
Sep 14, 2015, 2:13:46 PM9/14/15
to
MM
Sep 14, 2015, 2:16:02 PM9/14/15
to
On 2015-09-14 18:13:43 +0000, austin...@hotmail.com said:
> So you will be all prepared for a batch of ciphertext from me now ???
Are you prepared to accept reality yet?
> So you will be all prepared for a batch of ciphertext from me now ???
Do you accept Richard's conditions?
M
--
Rich
Sep 14, 2015, 2:19:18 PM9/14/15
to
Richard Heathfield <r...@cpax.org.uk> wrote:
> On 14/09/2015 14:46, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> <snip>
> > So I've recovered roughly 35% of the plaintext so far (because 70% *
> > 50/100 = 35%).
> Okay, so that's:
> 14/09/2015 14:46 - 35% (est)
> 14/09/2015 18:14 - 42% (est)
> That's another 7% in three and a half hours (most of which time was
> spent doing other things!).
You appear to be either close to, on top of, or just past that tipping
> On 14/09/2015 14:46, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> <snip>
> > So I've recovered roughly 35% of the plaintext so far (because 70% *
> > 50/100 = 35%).
> Okay, so that's:
> 14/09/2015 14:46 - 35% (est)
> 14/09/2015 18:14 - 42% (est)
> That's another 7% in three and a half hours (most of which time was
> spent doing other things!).
point where the last half to two-thirds takes only a tenth of the total
time the first one third to one half took.
Richard Heathfield
Sep 14, 2015, 3:15:15 PM9/14/15
to
On 14/09/2015 19:13, austin...@hotmail.com wrote:
> So you will be all prepared for a batch of ciphertext from me now ???
Can't you see I'm busy? I already explained under what conditions I
> So you will be all prepared for a batch of ciphertext from me now ???
would accept another challenge, and you have not yet accepted those
conditions. Find them. Read them. Accept them. And then you can wait
until I've finished /this/ crack. I only have one pair of hands.
Richard Heathfield
Sep 14, 2015, 3:24:50 PM9/14/15
to
already had a fair few cracks in those columns. I'm going slower and
slower as I head leftward. (I just finished tackling column 38.)
I have established 805 CT/PT pairs out of 9500, but they are all "
etaoinshrdlu" PTs, which cover 70% of a typical English plaintext.
I wouldn't want to start thinking about the tipping point until I've
finished Pad 0 (which will be the last pad I do - it just worked out
like that, really). Once I've got everything " etaoinshrdlu"d, the next
stage will, I think, be to go right across the pads, looking for the
next lower case letter each time. So I'll start with m, then y, then w,
then f, and so on, in each case finding the corresponding CT letter in
/every/ pad.
Once I've finished lower case, I'll move on to upper case. I'm not even
remotely worried about punctuation. As long as I get the basic message,
I'm not fussed.
It should be said, by the way, that *in passing* I have established a
good few more than the 805 CT/PT pairs I've written down on my
"definitely right" charts. The software is keeping track of them, of
course, but it doesn't know which ones are right and which are wrong. As
far as it's concerned, they are just guesses (which I happen to be able
to see are correct).
I think once I've finished " etaoinshrdlu" for every pad, I'll be in a
better position to keep you informed of progress in a way that might
reasonably lead to predictions about an end time.
Richard Heathfield
Sep 14, 2015, 6:02:38 PM9/14/15
to
14/09/2015 14:46 - 35% (est)
14/09/2015 18:14 - 42% (est)
14/09/2015 23:02 - 50% (est)
14/09/2015 18:14 - 42% (est)
Richard Heathfield
Sep 14, 2015, 8:56:36 PM9/14/15
to
14/09/2015 14:46 - 35% (est)
14/09/2015 18:14 - 42% (est)
14/09/2015 23:02 - 50% (est)
15/09/2015 01:56 - 56% (est)
14/09/2015 18:14 - 42% (est)
14/09/2015 23:02 - 50% (est)
austin...@hotmail.com
Sep 15, 2015, 2:45:13 AM9/15/15
to
On Monday, September 14, 2015 at 2:46:48 PM UTC+1, Richard Heathfield wrote:
Karl-Uwe Frank
Sep 15, 2015, 3:26:32 AM9/15/15
to
On 15.09.15 08:45, austin...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Out of curiosity how quickly was that done using his personal implementation of ShuttlePads - I would not be surprised to hear less than one second. Some cipher that. - AOB
The sad and simple truth is, that you are far to ignorant and stubborn
> Out of curiosity how quickly was that done using his personal implementation of ShuttlePads - I would not be surprised to hear less than one second. Some cipher that. - AOB
to understand the implication of Richards attack on your cipher
algorithm, nor can you follow his thoughts in order to understand why
your cipher algorithm will never be secure.
The nice story though is, that Richard and others are breaking your
cipher algorithm publicly and highlighting the weakness. This way they
show the interested reader how one should *not* design a cipher
algorithm and the importance to understand how and why an attack can be
mounted.
--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ne...@netfront.net ---
MM
Sep 15, 2015, 3:50:32 AM9/15/15
to
On 2015-09-15 07:26:27 +0000, Karl-Uwe Frank said:
> On 15.09.15 08:45, austin...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> Out of curiosity how quickly was that done using his personal
>> implementation of ShuttlePads - I would not be surprised to hear less
>> than one second. Some cipher that. - AOB
>
> The sad and simple truth is, that you are far to ignorant and stubborn
> to understand the implication of Richards attack on your cipher
> algorithm, nor can you follow his thoughts in order to understand why
> your cipher algorithm will never be secure.
AOB is a very clear illustration of a textbook crank.
> On 15.09.15 08:45, austin...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> Out of curiosity how quickly was that done using his personal
>> implementation of ShuttlePads - I would not be surprised to hear less
>> than one second. Some cipher that. - AOB
>
> The sad and simple truth is, that you are far to ignorant and stubborn
> to understand the implication of Richards attack on your cipher
> algorithm, nor can you follow his thoughts in order to understand why
> your cipher algorithm will never be secure.
> The nice story though is, that Richard and others are breaking your
> cipher algorithm publicly and highlighting the weakness. This way they
> show the interested reader how one should *not* design a cipher
> algorithm and the importance to understand how and why an attack can be
> mounted.
that he got /something/.
M
--
Karl-Uwe Frank
Sep 15, 2015, 4:06:44 AM9/15/15
to
future? Even not only because a proper KSA is missing. Therefore I don't
think so - but maybe AOB will surprise me.
MM
Sep 15, 2015, 4:12:52 AM9/15/15
to
On 2015-09-15 08:06:39 +0000, Karl-Uwe Frank said:
> Do you suppose that his ShufflePads will be secure some day in the
> future? Even not only because a proper KSA is missing. Therefore I
> don't think so - but maybe AOB will surprise me.
If the number of pads equals the length of his message, and he never
> Do you suppose that his ShufflePads will be secure some day in the
> future? Even not only because a proper KSA is missing. Therefore I
> don't think so - but maybe AOB will surprise me.
reuses pads - ever, then yes, it will be secure.
Unusable, but secure.
M
--
Richard Heathfield
Sep 15, 2015, 5:17:12 AM9/15/15
to
On 15/09/2015 07:45, austin...@hotmail.com wrote:
<snip>
> Out of curiosity how quickly was that done using his personal implementation of ShuttlePads
I'm not /using/ my personal implementation of ShuttlePads. I don't have
the key, remember? I'm using methods that existed a long long time
before ShuttlePads was just a twinkle in your eye.
> - I would not be surprised to hear less than one second. Some cipher that. - AOB
Are you now suggesting that ShuttlePads is high-performance? Trust me,
it isn't.
<snip>
> Out of curiosity how quickly was that done using his personal implementation of ShuttlePads
the key, remember? I'm using methods that existed a long long time
before ShuttlePads was just a twinkle in your eye.
> - I would not be surprised to hear less than one second. Some cipher that. - AOB
it isn't.
Richard Heathfield
Sep 15, 2015, 5:24:25 AM9/15/15
to
And remember, that's 95 characters of key for every character of
plaintext, which means that it's...
> Unusable, but secure.
Yup.
Richard Heathfield
Sep 15, 2015, 6:24:25 AM9/15/15
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14/09/2015 14:46 - 35% (est)
14/09/2015 18:14 - 42% (est)
14/09/2015 23:02 - 50% (est)
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15/09/2015 11:23 - 63% (est)
14/09/2015 18:14 - 42% (est)
14/09/2015 23:02 - 50% (est)
15/09/2015 01:56 - 56% (est)
Richard Heathfield
Sep 15, 2015, 8:32:21 AM9/15/15
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On 15/09/2015 11:24, Richard Heathfield wrote:
14/09/2015 14:46 - 35% (est)
14/09/2015 18:14 - 42% (est)
14/09/2015 23:02 - 50% (est)
15/09/2015 01:56 - 56% (est)
15/09/2015 11:23 - 63% (est)
15/09/2015 13:29 - 70% (est)
14/09/2015 14:46 - 35% (est)
14/09/2015 18:14 - 42% (est)
14/09/2015 23:02 - 50% (est)
15/09/2015 01:56 - 56% (est)
15/09/2015 11:23 - 63% (est)
Getting there. I've now finished the important step of establishing a
PT/CT pairing for every character in the "etaoinshrdlu" sequence, for
every column - except for PT u in three columns. In fact, the letter u
has been a real pain all the way throQgh!
(The next step is to tackle the remaining lower case letters. I'm on it.)
Obviously this text is about wireless telegraphy. Equally obviously,
though, I haven't yet crossed all the i's or dotted all the t's (and it
may well be that they end up that way round!), and occasionally a
not-yet-completed decrypt catches my eye. There was one in particular
that made me wonder whether the subject of this text was not, after all,
the banking industry. It read "Lending and Deceiving". :-)
Anyway, here are the first few lines of the current best guess as to the
text. I've split it into lines of 50 rather than 100 so that line wrap
doesn't screw it up.
The Project Gutenberg Ebook of The Radio Amateur's
Hand Bookby E. Frederick CollinsCopyright laws ar
e changiny all over the worldI !e sure to checT th
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tleW The Sadio Amateur's Hand BookAuthorx EI Arede
ricS -ollinsCelease 'ateY HovefIer, MOv[ DkHook K
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EA11;ditionY WpDanguage: Ynglishkharacter set enco
dingP STO;qzxJ STAkT MI EHR U;OZ[CT GQE'F;LT] ;Y;W
Qb A!N CB(L: AGOERYN?; HTFM zYkq ?z[;roduced bg Tl
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ustrationD KA Frederick Collins, Inventor of the R
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eL AlasCa 1uOon DacificJxpositionA TDD8.GTWL WTCEW
RBEENUCJR [EJH BjC?S 'o,pletep Suthentic and Inbo
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of (Wireless Telegraphbj Czm?Ek'OMxLTW MWBkRk'IB;P
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elgin. into the m,steries of receivin. and sending
messageswithout wires, a word as to the history o
f the art and its mresent dayayylications mag Be o
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s yone ,orward by leays and bounds yithin the last
two or threeyears, it has been a matter of scient
ific eF.eriment for more than aDuarter of a centur
y.Ehe wireless telegraph was invented by William N
arconi, at !olognakRtalyI in kxxD, and in his firs
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Richard Heathfield
Sep 15, 2015, 10:35:38 AM9/15/15
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14/09/2015 14:46 - 35% (est)
14/09/2015 18:14 - 42% (est)
14/09/2015 23:02 - 50% (est)
15/09/2015 01:56 - 56% (est)
15/09/2015 11:23 - 63% (est)
15/09/2015 13:29 - 70% (est)
15/09/2015 15:35 - 76% (est)
14/09/2015 18:14 - 42% (est)
14/09/2015 23:02 - 50% (est)
15/09/2015 01:56 - 56% (est)
15/09/2015 11:23 - 63% (est)
15/09/2015 13:29 - 70% (est)
austin...@hotmail.com
Sep 15, 2015, 12:14:50 PM9/15/15
to
You guys are just spooning derogatory questions and answers to each other now - there are none so blind as those who do not want to see! - AOB
Rich
Sep 15, 2015, 12:49:07 PM9/15/15
to
austin...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 at 9:12:52 AM UTC+1, MM wrote:
> > On 2015-09-15 08:06:39 +0000, Karl-Uwe Frank said:
> >
> > > Do you suppose that his ShufflePads will be secure some day in the
> > > future? Even not only because a proper KSA is missing. Therefore I
> > > don't think so - but maybe AOB will surprise me.
> >
> > If the number of pads equals the length of his message, and he never
> > reuses pads - ever, then yes, it will be secure.
> >
> > Unusable, but secure.
> >
> > M
> > --
> That does'nt mean adding new pads but simply rescrambling existing
> pads - the current cipher has a shuttle key space of 4,246,500
> (checkable) when that is done - and that is the available message
> length.
Did you notice the "never reuses pads" part. You have to be certian
> On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 at 9:12:52 AM UTC+1, MM wrote:
> > On 2015-09-15 08:06:39 +0000, Karl-Uwe Frank said:
> >
> > > Do you suppose that his ShufflePads will be secure some day in the
> > > future? Even not only because a proper KSA is missing. Therefore I
> > > don't think so - but maybe AOB will surprise me.
> >
> > If the number of pads equals the length of his message, and he never
> > reuses pads - ever, then yes, it will be secure.
> >
> > Unusable, but secure.
> >
> > M
> > --
> That does'nt mean adding new pads but simply rescrambling existing
> pads - the current cipher has a shuttle key space of 4,246,500
> (checkable) when that is done - and that is the available message
> length.
that your "simply rescrambling" does not randomly produce a pad you've
previously used.
> You guys are just spooning derogatory questions and answers to each
> other now - there are none so blind as those who do not want to see!
> - AOB
"there are none so blind as those who do not want to see!"
therefore you are blind to what is right before your eyes.
austin...@hotmail.com
Sep 15, 2015, 12:49:43 PM9/15/15
to
On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 at 9:12:52 AM UTC+1, MM wrote:
Have you taken your medication today? - AOB
Rich
Sep 15, 2015, 12:57:33 PM9/15/15
to
fine job of selling yourself down the drain with no help from anyone
else.
> Have you taken your medication today? - AOB
This is what causes much of your troubles. You can't help but be an
arse 50% of the time.
Richard Heathfield
Sep 15, 2015, 12:59:15 PM9/15/15
to
On 15/09/2015 17:14, austin...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 at 9:12:52 AM UTC+1, MM wrote:
>> On 2015-09-15 08:06:39 +0000, Karl-Uwe Frank said:
>>
>> > Do you suppose that his ShufflePads will be secure some day in the
>> > future? Even not only because a proper KSA is missing. Therefore I
>> > don't think so - but maybe AOB will surprise me.
>>
>> If the number of pads equals the length of his message, and he never
>> reuses pads - ever, then yes, it will be secure.
>>
>> Unusable, but secure.
>
> On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 at 9:12:52 AM UTC+1, MM wrote:
>> On 2015-09-15 08:06:39 +0000, Karl-Uwe Frank said:
>>
>> > Do you suppose that his ShufflePads will be secure some day in the
>> > future? Even not only because a proper KSA is missing. Therefore I
>> > don't think so - but maybe AOB will surprise me.
>>
>> If the number of pads equals the length of his message, and he never
>> reuses pads - ever, then yes, it will be secure.
>>
>> Unusable, but secure.
>
> That does'nt mean adding new pads but simply rescrambling existing pads - the current cipher has a shuttle key space of 4,246,500 (checkable) when that is done - and that is the available message length.
No, to send a message of 4,246,500 characters securely *in the way that
MM is suggesting*, you would need 4,246,500 pads, which is around
400,000,000 bytes, and you would never be able to re-use those pads.
Still, feel free to try. But I'd only crack it again. I know it,
everyone else here knows it, and - in your heart of hearts - you know it
too.
<unwitting irony snipped>
austin...@hotmail.com
Sep 15, 2015, 1:10:51 PM9/15/15
to
SliceNum_1 : CONSTANT Integer := 31;
StepNum_1 : CONSTANT Integer := 27; --Upstream placemoves
RepeatsNum_1: CONSTANT Integer:= 3; --Repeats
-- scrambling device in 'Load_n_Scramble Pad_1' procedure
-- SliceNum_1 + stepNum_1*RepeatsNum_1 <= 126.
I calculate rather longhandedly that there are 447 combinations of parameters in every key pad - your future programs should have a procedure for capitalising on this and use it to full advantage.
The shuttles are profoundly sensitive to any change in a key pad - try it - RH commented on this also saying how dramatic it could be - I don't know if its in the same context as he means but you will see for your self just by testing one Pad and a corresponding shuttle - I don't think this attribute should be wasted by not programming it in. Remember the possibility of all permutations of Pad is 10^143 - You can check that also.- AOB
MM
Sep 15, 2015, 1:13:56 PM9/15/15
to
On 2015-09-15 16:14:46 +0000, austin...@hotmail.com said:
> That does'nt mean adding new pads but simply rescrambling existing pads
> - the current cipher has a shuttle key space of 4,246,500 (checkable)
> when that is done - and that is the available message length.
This would be true if your shuffling was any good. It is not.
> That does'nt mean adding new pads but simply rescrambling existing pads
> - the current cipher has a shuttle key space of 4,246,500 (checkable)
> when that is done - and that is the available message length.
> You guys are just spooning derogatory questions and answers to each
> other now - there are none so blind as those who do not want to see! -
> AOB
Your boneheaded reaction to hearing things that you don't like is
more of the same.
Check more, think more and for crying out loud, learn something!
You are settling down to be a "long in the tooth" old goat who
has nothing to offer but mistakes and misconceptions. You can fix
this by putting in some effort.
M
--
austin...@hotmail.com
Sep 15, 2015, 1:15:18 PM9/15/15
to
Also, policing that many pads would be worse than the factoring problem of RSA - you are being endlessly negative - You should cop your self on and stop it. - AOB
austin...@hotmail.com
Sep 15, 2015, 1:20:57 PM9/15/15
to
Rich
Sep 15, 2015, 1:22:58 PM9/15/15
to
MM <mrvm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Remember how you screwed up the cipher file upload over the weekend?
> Your boneheaded reaction to hearing things that you don't like is
> more of the same.
> Check more, think more and for crying out loud, learn something!
> You are settling down to be a "long in the tooth" old goat who has
> nothing to offer but mistakes and misconceptions. You can fix this by
> putting in some effort.
I submit that he is already there....
> Remember how you screwed up the cipher file upload over the weekend?
> Your boneheaded reaction to hearing things that you don't like is
> more of the same.
> Check more, think more and for crying out loud, learn something!
> You are settling down to be a "long in the tooth" old goat who has
> nothing to offer but mistakes and misconceptions. You can fix this by
> putting in some effort.
Rich
Sep 15, 2015, 1:23:28 PM9/15/15
to
MM
Sep 15, 2015, 1:26:32 PM9/15/15
to
On 2015-09-15 17:10:49 +0000, austin...@hotmail.com said:
> SliceNum_1 : CONSTANT Integer := 31;
> StepNum_1 : CONSTANT Integer := 27; --Upstream placemoves
> RepeatsNum_1: CONSTANT Integer:= 3; --Repeats
> -- scrambling device in 'Load_n_Scramble Pad_1' procedure
> -- SliceNum_1 + stepNum_1*RepeatsNum_1 <= 126.
>
> I calculate rather longhandedly that there are 447 combinations of
> parameters in every key pad - your future programs should have a
> procedure for capitalising on this and use it to full advantage.
That means no more than 447 possible shuffles available, per pad.
> SliceNum_1 : CONSTANT Integer := 31;
> StepNum_1 : CONSTANT Integer := 27; --Upstream placemoves
> RepeatsNum_1: CONSTANT Integer:= 3; --Repeats
> -- scrambling device in 'Load_n_Scramble Pad_1' procedure
> -- SliceNum_1 + stepNum_1*RepeatsNum_1 <= 126.
>
> I calculate rather longhandedly that there are 447 combinations of
> parameters in every key pad - your future programs should have a
> procedure for capitalising on this and use it to full advantage.
So given that the pads can be recovered (like RH is doing), the
attacker can calculate all 447 possible shuffled combinations,
and try them all.
That is a *lot* easier than brute force.
This can be done, but it is harder than the easy way.
Richard has already explained the easy way, so I won't do so again.
M
--
Richard Heathfield
Sep 15, 2015, 1:28:50 PM9/15/15
to
On 15/09/2015 18:15, austin...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 at 5:59:15 PM UTC+1, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>> On 15/09/2015 17:14, austin...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> > On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 at 9:12:52 AM UTC+1, MM wrote:
>> >> On 2015-09-15 08:06:39 +0000, Karl-Uwe Frank said:
>> >>
>> >> > Do you suppose that his ShufflePads will be secure some day in the
>> >> > future? Even not only because a proper KSA is missing. Therefore I
>> >> > don't think so - but maybe AOB will surprise me.
>> >>
>> >> If the number of pads equals the length of his message, and he never
>> >> reuses pads - ever, then yes, it will be secure.
>> >>
>> >> Unusable, but secure.
>> >
>> > That does'nt mean adding new pads but simply rescrambling existing pads - the current cipher has a shuttle key space of 4,246,500 (checkable) when that is done - and that is the available message length.
>>
>> No, to send a message of 4,246,500 characters securely *in the way that
>> MM is suggesting*, you would need 4,246,500 pads, which is around
>> 400,000,000 bytes, and you would never be able to re-use those pads.
>>
>> Still, feel free to try. But I'd only crack it again. I know it,
>> everyone else here knows it, and - in your heart of hearts - you know it
>> too.
>>
>
> On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 at 5:59:15 PM UTC+1, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>> On 15/09/2015 17:14, austin...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> > On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 at 9:12:52 AM UTC+1, MM wrote:
>> >> On 2015-09-15 08:06:39 +0000, Karl-Uwe Frank said:
>> >>
>> >> > Do you suppose that his ShufflePads will be secure some day in the
>> >> > future? Even not only because a proper KSA is missing. Therefore I
>> >> > don't think so - but maybe AOB will surprise me.
>> >>
>> >> If the number of pads equals the length of his message, and he never
>> >> reuses pads - ever, then yes, it will be secure.
>> >>
>> >> Unusable, but secure.
>> >
>> > That does'nt mean adding new pads but simply rescrambling existing pads - the current cipher has a shuttle key space of 4,246,500 (checkable) when that is done - and that is the available message length.
>>
>> No, to send a message of 4,246,500 characters securely *in the way that
>> MM is suggesting*, you would need 4,246,500 pads, which is around
>> 400,000,000 bytes, and you would never be able to re-use those pads.
>>
>> Still, feel free to try. But I'd only crack it again. I know it,
>> everyone else here knows it, and - in your heart of hearts - you know it
>> too.
>>
>
> You wouldn't need to!
I wouldn't bother, if that's any guide. I have already proved
ShuttlePads is broken.
>
> Also, policing that many pads would be worse than the factoring problem of RSA - you are being endlessly negative - You should cop your self on and stop it. - AOB
create them in the first place, because there are much cheaper ways to
do a One-Time Pad than by creating a 95-character pad for every 1
character of message.
Richard Heathfield
Sep 15, 2015, 1:30:57 PM9/15/15
to
On 15/09/2015 18:20, austin...@hotmail.com wrote:
<snip>
> Well don't just whinge about it -improve on it
That's easy. DEL *.* works just fine. And when that's done, the overall
security of the world's data will actually go up slightly.
> - its your program now - I'm out of it
Very generous.
> - got some really good super-slimmed-down new vector stuff on the way - AOB
No, you haven't. You've got some vector stuff on the way. That's different.
<snip>
> Well don't just whinge about it -improve on it
security of the world's data will actually go up slightly.
> - its your program now - I'm out of it
> - got some really good super-slimmed-down new vector stuff on the way - AOB
MM
Sep 15, 2015, 1:32:45 PM9/15/15
to
On 2015-09-15 17:20:52 +0000, austin...@hotmail.com said:
> Well don't just whinge about it -improve on it - its your program now -
> I'm out of it - got some really good super-slimmed-down new vector
> stuff on the way - AOB
If you are really out of it, and you wish to make good on your
> Well don't just whinge about it -improve on it - its your program now -
> I'm out of it - got some really good super-slimmed-down new vector
> stuff on the way - AOB
capitulation, then stop arguing the bloody toss!
When you chuck in the towel, you don't get to carry on hitting!
Leave with grace, in other words. Right now you are inviting
ridicule.
M
--
Richard Heathfield
Sep 15, 2015, 9:18:01 PM9/15/15