Gaudeamus Igitur
Raoul Golan
starts:
"Gaudeamus igitur,
Juvenes dum sumus..."
I read that it was sung in Universities during
the Middle Ages. Does anyone have any more info?
Thanks.
--
ra...@cssc-syd.tansu.com.au | "... And don't apologize. Every time I try
(Raoul Golan) | to talk to someone it's sorry this and forgive
| me that and I'm not worthy and ..."
| - God to Arthur, M.P. & T.H.G.
Brian W. Ogilvie
>Does anyone know the history of the song which
>starts:
>
>"Gaudeamus igitur,
> Juvenes dum sumus..."
>
>I read that it was sung in Universities during
>the Middle Ages. Does anyone have any more info?
I seem to recall that it is an eighteenth- or nineteenth-century
German university song. I think that it is given as a reading
selection in Waldo Sweet's _Latin: A Structural Approach_; you might
want to check there and see what his source was. I don't think it's
medieval; their songs were a little more wild. For example,
Qui potare non potestis,
Ite procul ab his festis,
Non est locus hic modestis.
Inter letos mos agrestis
Modestie,
Et est sue certus testis
Ignavie.
(Carmina Burana 179)
--
Brian W. Ogilvie DISCLAIMER: You think I have time to
b-og...@uchicago.edu think about everything I post?
Yuichi Tanaka
og...@quads.uchicago.edu (Brian W. Ogilvie) writes:
> From: og...@quads.uchicago.edu (Brian W. Ogilvie)
> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1993 16:04:48 GMT
>
> In article <278pgf$o...@moose.cssc-syd.tansu.com.au>
> ra...@cssc-syd.tansu.com.au (Raoul Golan) writes:
> >Does anyone know the history of the song which
> >starts:
> >
> >"Gaudeamus igitur,
> > Juvenes dum sumus..."
> >
> >I read that it was sung in Universities during
> >the Middle Ages. Does anyone have any more info?
>
> I seem to recall that it is an eighteenth- or nineteenth-century
> German university song. I think that it is given as a reading
I don't think so. It's a medieval student song.
It was also sung by the students of 19th century
because Johannes Brahms wrote "Akademische Fest-
ouverture (op.80)" in 1880, which includes this
song as the last movement.
Yuichi Tanaka
Software Laboratory / Fujitsu Laboratories Ltd / Tel 044-754-2671
1015 Kamikodanaka, Nakahara-ku, Kawasaki 211 Japan / Fax 044-754-2570
Brian W. Ogilvie
yta...@flab.fujitsu.co.jp writes, about "Gaudeamus igitur,"
>I don't think so. It's a medieval student song.
Could you give us a reference? Sweet claims that it is more recent.
>It was also sung by the students of 19th century
>because Johannes Brahms wrote "Akademische Fest-
>ouverture (op.80)" in 1880, which includes this
>song as the last movement.
The version of that piece with which I am familiar is a one-movement
instrumental work (it is an *overture*). Students woudn't sing the
song because Brahms used it; rather, Brahms would have quoted the
theme because it was familiar to his audience.
--Brian
Mr. T.E. Love
ove, fate etc etc. The most famous example is the Benedictbuern Codex, or "Carmina Burana". I don't know how reliable Symonds is: it is certainly a bit dated now and modern scholarship may have superseded his own. Symonds claims that it is sung by German students after the death of a friend. I always thought that it was sung at graduation to remind students that there is more to life than working, writing essays and translating Latin. As if !! It is sung here in New Zealand at graduations and I was u
nder the impression that it was a medieval university tradition. Is there anyone out there from Oxford or Cambridge who can enlighten us ?
Brahms used the tune only in the coda of his "Academic Festival" overture, which he wrote upon receiving a doctorate from somewhere I now forget. It is a whimsical piece in which he sandwiches together several tunes commonly associated with Universities. He was drawing upon a similar piece by Suppe who also used "Gaudeamus".
On the whole there seems to be very little written on Gaudeamus Igitur, which surprised me, since I thought that it was quite famous. Something to note, which may suggest that Symonds was wrong and that it should not be dated in the C12th, is that it does not seem to be mentioned in collections of secular medieval music and poetry. It may be that musicologists have had this problem sorted out ages ago. Maybe someone should ask one.
Tom Love
Physics/Classics/Philosophy
University Of Canterbury
New Zealand
John Rickert
And not a bad tune, either. Anyone know the source of that?
John Rickert
rick...@athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu
Peter King
>The origins and age of the song _Gaudeamus Igitur_ came up in sci.classics:
>since it is referred to in Brahms' Academic Overture, I crosspost to
>rec.music.classical.
> Is there anyone out there from Oxford or
>|Cambridge who can enlighten us ?
>|
> I never heard it sung by any students when I was an undergraduate
at Cambridge in the 1950's and I doubt it has caught on since.
However when I taught at St. Andrews in the early 60's the students
regularly sang it at graduations (quite spontaneously) either as the
academic procession entered or/and left. I don't know if they still do
--
Peter King,
History Department,
Carleton University,
Ottawa, Canada
(pk...@ccs.carleton.ca)
Raoul Golan
It's a great tune! I'd make it compulsory singing
in all Universities. I'd also make all lectures be given
in latin. Bring back the academic gown!
Where are Universities heading towards nowadays? Are they
becoming conveyor belts?
Neil Bernstein
: Where are Universities heading towards nowadays? Are they
: becoming conveyor belts?
No, most of the buildings at my college don't even have escalators or ramps so
handicapped people can access them. It's really a shame. But the
administration pleads poverty...
- N. "don't get mad, get literal -- Korydon in Idyll 4" B.
--
nwbe...@unix.amherst.edu
"I don't operate on a need-to-know basis. I'm Non-Sequitor Man."
- Jim Dubinsky, Amherst College '95
Joachim Ziegler
---
*******************************************************
* Joachim Ziegler Universitaet des Saarlandes *
*******************************************************
* Though my wife still respects me I really misuse her*
* I am having an affair with a random computer *
* Don't you know, I'm the 2000 man *
* And my kids they just don't understand me at all *
* *
* The Rolling Stones *
*******************************************************
Paul Neel
> becoming conveyor belts?
> Raoul Golan
Yes. As public support ($) is withdrawn and universities are forced to
depend on private support, they are having to reorganize as trade schools
- because that is what business wants, an endless line of skilled labor
that will not think without corporate instruction. Education is being
replaced by skill training.
PN
Paul Neel
> Could some kind soul please csnd the text of "Gaudeaus igitur" ?
> * Joachim Ziegler Universitaet des Saarlandes *
In English and Latin please.
Paul
Rudolf Podgornik
Gaudeamus igitur, iuvenes dum summus.
Post iucundam iuventutem, post molestam senectutem nos habebit humus.
Vivat Academia, vivant professores
vivat membrum quodlibet, vivant membra quaelibet, semper sint in flore!
But there might be more.
The last time I sang it was 20 years ago!
Rudi Podgornik
p...@waikato.ac.nz
me, so here's the text and translation of 'Gaudeamus.'
I don't vouch for its accuracy (yes, I studied Latin, but that was years ago,
and in another country), but I guess the Waikato Univ. people got it right.
Gaudeamus igitur juvenes dum sumus;
Post jocundam juventutem,
Post molestam senectutem,
Nos habebit humus.
Vita nostra brevis est, brevi finietur;
Venit mors velociter,
Rapit nos atrociter,
Nemini parcetur, nemini parcetur.
Vivat Academia! Vivant professores!
Vivat membrum quodlibet,
Vivant membra quaelibet,
Semper sint in flore!
Let us be joyful therefore
While we are young;
After youth that brings joy,
After old age that brings grief,
The grave will take us.
Our life is short,
Soon it will be finished;
Death comes quickly,
It snatches away violently,
It will spare nobody.
Long live the University,
Long live the professors,
Long live every member,
Long live every part,
May they ever flourish.
Uggh, what an ugly translation - and I think I would have used 'i's instead of
'j's.
Peter.
Raoul Golan
>Rudi Podgornik
I have some more. Full script follows (it may not all be gramatically
correct - my latin is a little rusty)
Gaudeamus igitur,
Juvenes dum sumus.
Post jucundam juventutem,
Post molestam senectutem,
nos habebit humus.
Vita nostra brevis est,
Brevi finietur.
Venit mors velociter,
Rapit nos atrociter,
nemini parcetur.
Ubi sunt qui ante nos
In mundo fuere
Vadite ad superos,
Transite ad inferos,
ubi jam fuere.
Vivat academia,
Vivant professores.
Vivat member quodlibet,
Vivant membra quaelibet
semper sint in flore.
Vivat et res publica,
Et qui illam regit.
Vivat nostra civitas,
Etque haec sodalitas
quae huc nos collegit.
Raoul Golan
>> Raoul Golan
>PN
Alas, this is true. This is very bad news for the Humanities, and
the Classics in particular.
Now, if only societies spent on Universities what they spend on sport.....
Paul Neel
>>> becoming conveyor belts?
>>> Raoul Golan
>
>>Yes. As public support ($) is withdrawn and universities are forced to
>>depend on private support, they are having to reorganize as trade schools
>>- because that is what business wants, an endless line of skilled labor
>>that will not think without corporate instruction. Education is being
>>replaced by skill training.
>
>>PN
>
> Alas, this is true. This is very bad news for the Humanities, and
> the Classics in particular.
>
> Now, if only societies spent on Universities what they spend on sport.....
If only the UNIVERSITIES spent on education what they spend on sports.
PN
Francois Velde
>> Where are Universities heading towards nowadays? Are they
>> becoming conveyor belts?
>
>depend on private support, they are having to reorganize as trade schools
>- because that is what business wants, an endless line of skilled labor
>that will not think without corporate instruction. Education is being
>replaced by skill training.
Let's see what the data says. The following reports the funds received
from government (Federal, state and local) as well as private gifts, grants
and contracts per enrolled student by all institutions of higher
education in the US, in constant 1987 dollars (using the CPI).
year Govt. Private Total
1919 618.45 70.97 689.42
1929 923.45 160.06 1083.51
1939 968.88 221.46 1190.33
1949 1578.47 216.83 1795.30
1959 2771.97 413.47 3185.44
1969 4126.38 432.12 4558.49
1975 3797.05 357.64 4154.69
1977 3800.98 380.30 4181.28
1979 3769.95 362.20 4132.15
1980 3498.05 351.10 3849.15
1981 3320.08 354.43 3674.51
1982 3295.85 384.57 3680.42
1983 3404.54 402.93 3807.48
1984 3708.81 437.77 4146.58
1985 3924.59 470.16 4394.75
1986 3998.89 495.74 4494.63
1987 4018.02 498.12 4516.14
As you can see, private grants only amount to 11% of total funds received
from outside (in 1987, government funding represented 44% of all current-fund
revenue, while private grants made up 5%). Moreover, while it is true that
government funding falls in recessions, so does private funding. Finally,
aside from recessions, the general trend for government funding is upward,
not downward.
I don't have more recent data. My guess is that, as before, government
funding went down during the last recession, and it will pick up later.
I'm sorry, but if you want to blame the lack of funding of Classical
studies on the Big Bad Corporate world and Government, you'll have to
find other data. In any case, it is not unreasonable to expect
universities to provide a form of education of some relevance to
the modern world, if they are going to do it with public money.
--
Francois Velde
Raoul Golan
[stuff deleted]
>As you can see, private grants only amount to 11% of total funds received
>from outside (in 1987, government funding represented 44% of all current-fund
>revenue, while private grants made up 5%). Moreover, while it is true that
>government funding falls in recessions, so does private funding. Finally,
>aside from recessions, the general trend for government funding is upward,
>not downward.
>I don't have more recent data. My guess is that, as before, government
>funding went down during the last recession, and it will pick up later.
>I'm sorry, but if you want to blame the lack of funding of Classical
>studies on the Big Bad Corporate world and Government, you'll have to
>find other data. In any case, it is not unreasonable to expect
>universities to provide a form of education of some relevance to
>the modern world, if they are going to do it with public money.
Well, that all depends on what you call 'relevant'. The Classics
are fundamental to understanding our own civilisation, our own
character, our own culture. In the greater context of history,
they are extremely 'relevant'.
'C programming' may be relevant for only, who knows, the next few
decades. Its lifespan makes it 'relevant' only for the immediate
future.
The problem lies not so much in who funds the Universities, but
where the money goes. To invest in CS and Engineering may
bring immediate returns, but the benefits pale into insignificance
when seen in a historical context.
I maintain that both Government and Business are very short
sighted in considering the Humanities as 'irrelevant' to
the modern world. (This short sighted attitude can also be seen,
for instance, in their wanton destruction of the environment)
But the problem goes beyond Business and Government - the problem
is with people's apathy.
Richard Lee Winterstein
>vel...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Francois Velde) writes:
>
>[stuff deleted]
>
>
>Well, that all depends on what you call 'relevant'. The Classics
>are fundamental to understanding our own civilisation, our own
>character, our own culture. In the greater context of history,
>they are extremely 'relevant'.
>
>'C programming' may be relevant for only, who knows, the next few
>decades. Its lifespan makes it 'relevant' only for the immediate
>future.
>
>The problem lies not so much in who funds the Universities, but
>where the money goes. To invest in CS and Engineering may
>bring immediate returns, but the benefits pale into insignificance
>when seen in a historical context.
>
>I maintain that both Government and Business are very short
>sighted in considering the Humanities as 'irrelevant' to
>the modern world. (This short sighted attitude can also be seen,
>for instance, in their wanton destruction of the environment)
>
>But the problem goes beyond Business and Government - the problem
>is with people's apathy.
>
Hear, hear. Too many students who simply don't care or aren't willing
to expend the effort, and an educational system that rarely provides
any serious instruction in the classics (or the humanities in general).
I'm really in the mood to rant, but I think I'll heed discretion and hold
my tongue...but before I go--it seems to me the real tragedy is that devoid
of any serious study of philosophy, many students adopt the one phil. "system"
that thrives in a vacuum: cynical skepticism. Or so it often seems to me.
I've been in engineering for my entire college career, but I'm about to try
to earn a second bachelor's (in the humanities) so I can go into teaching--I
would love to be able to teach a variety of subjects. I think that if the
classics (et. al.) are going to regain a dominant position, it is going to
require an agressive campaign launched, sponsored, and fought by those who
want to see it there. Professors will have to be more vocal; perhaps
greater exposure on campus will lure students who would be attracted by the
intellectual aura of classical studies, but who might have overlooked the
field simply out of ignorance. The administrators will have to leave enough
elective space available as well--at least enough for introductory courses.
I don't know what it would take to revitalize high school-level interest, but
perhaps grad. students could organize and volunteer two hours a week or so
to tutoring interested students in basic Latin or Greek.
Above all, it will require genuine motivation on the part of the instructors,
and their genunine conviction of the worth of the classics. I doubt this is
lacking!--but we need to see more of this enthusiasm vocalized.
Well, I guess I went on longer than I thought I would. I hope this can serve
as a springboard for further ideas and discussion from those with the
knowledge and status to effect real change!
R-
Paul Neel
> studies on the Big Bad Corporate world and Government, you'll have to
> find other data. In any case, it is not unreasonable to expect
> universities to provide a form of education of some relevance to
> the modern world, if they are going to do it with public money.
Thank you for the official figures, Francois. I don't see how anyone could
argue with them. We are always pleased with such illuminating insights
into human psychology.
PN
William C Waterhouse
gives "Gaudeamus Igitur" in no less than 9 stanzas. I shall now, of
course, inflict them all upon you. One point is interesting:
the macaronic word "antiburschius" in Stanza 7, using the
German "Bursche" for student. It suggests that at least this version of
the song arose in Germany in the 1700's or 1800's. The last two stanzas
seem to be designed for a "Homecoming" or reunion.
Gaudeamus igitur,
Juvenes dum sumus;
Post jucundam juventutem,
Post molestam senectutem,
Nos habebit humus.
Ubi sunt, qui ante nos
In mundo fuere?
Transeas ad superos,
Abeas ad inferos,
Quos si vis videre.
Vita nostra brevis est,
Brevi finietur,
Venit mors velociter,
Rapit nos atrociter,
Nemini parcetur.
Vivat academia,
Vivant professores,
Vivat membrum quodlibet,
Vivant membra quaelibet,
Semper sint in flore.
Vivant omnes virgines
Faciles, formosae,
Vivant et mulieres,
Tenerae amabiles,
Bonae laboriosae.
Vivat et republica,
Et qui illam regit,
Vivat nostra civitas,
Maecenatum caritas,
Quae nos hic protegit.
Pereat tristitia,
Pereant osores,
Pereat diabolus,
Quivis antiburschius,
Atque irrisores.
Quis confluxus hodie
Academicorus?
E longinquo convenerunt,
Protinusque successerunt
In commune forum.
Alma Mater floreat,
Quae nos educavit,
Caros et commilitones,
Dissitas in regiones
Sparsos congregavit.
---
William C. Waterhouse
Penn State
Tamara A. Melnick
I stumbled across theis board by accident, and I must say I
thought it was pretty cool. "Gaudeamus Igitur" was my high
school Latin teacher's favorite song. She sang it to us when
we took too long to respond to a question. Brings back the
memories.
Equus puerque in oppidum ambulant, sed cum puella habitabant.
--
Tamara Melnick "Once you are Real, you can never be ugly,
CWRU except to those who don't understand."
-The Skin HOrse
"The Velveteen Rabbit"
Raoul Golan
>I'm really in the mood to rant, but I think I'll heed discretion and hold
>my tongue...but before I go--it seems to me the real tragedy is that devoid
>of any serious study of philosophy, many students adopt the one phil. "system"
>that thrives in a vacuum: cynical skepticism. Or so it often seems to me.
You too? I've noticed that as well.
>I've been in engineering for my entire college career, but I'm about to try
>to earn a second bachelor's (in the humanities) so I can go into teaching--I
>would love to be able to teach a variety of subjects.
I'll be doing that next year, too! I did engineering and CS, spent the
last five years developing software, and now I'm looking forward to studying
the humanities in the evenings. (I want to get away from this wasteland
I'm in....)
>I think that if the
>classics (et. al.) are going to regain a dominant position, it is going to
>require an agressive campaign launched, sponsored, and fought by those who
>want to see it there. Professors will have to be more vocal; perhaps
>greater exposure on campus will lure students who would be attracted by the
>intellectual aura of classical studies, but who might have overlooked the
>field simply out of ignorance. The administrators will have to leave enough
>elective space available as well--at least enough for introductory courses.
>I don't know what it would take to revitalize high school-level interest, but
>perhaps grad. students could organize and volunteer two hours a week or so
>to tutoring interested students in basic Latin or Greek.
I agree, and we can't wait for Business or Government to make a move.
Students must take the initiative - Organize! Form interest groups!
Once upon a time Universities were a community of people with a common
interest, the persuit of wisdom - we have let the industrialists hijack them!
Students now attend Universities only to get a good job at the end of
their studies.
>Above all, it will require genuine motivation on the part of the instructors,
>and their genunine conviction of the worth of the classics. I doubt this is
>lacking!--but we need to see more of this enthusiasm vocalized.
What we lack in money we must make up for with enthusiasm.