Please help me Latinize my name
Barry Miller
A trivial question, but maybe an amusing one: How best to Latinize my own
name, "Barry Jay Miller." I'll be as prolix as possible :-)
"Barry" is a bit of a problem. Should it be "Barrius?" If the British
can call Cicero "Tully" I suppose so, but I'd be happier if I knew of
someone in antiquity whose name ended in "arrius."
"Jay" is more interesting. It can of course be literally translated as
"Graculus," but that sounds horrible. The problem with merely trans-
literating it is the initial J: "Iay", "Iaius?" I hope not.
"Miller" isn't so bad. I can deal with any of "Millerus," "Molitor," or
"Molendinarius," but perhaps someone has a better suggestion.
I'm sure there are many other possibilities. One of course is simply to
treat any or all of them as indeclinable. I can live with that. A
retired English professor here looked at me for a bit then suggested,
"Fatuus Caudex." Ha ha. He's lucky I've taken a vow against slashing
the tires of emeriti. If anyone wants to insult me, please feel free
so long as you're at least this clever.
Seriously, if anyone has any ideas I'd love to hear them. Any pointers
towards guidelines for English->Latin translation in general would also
be appreciated. (For example, how would one translate "ratchet wrench?")
Cheers,
Barry
Don Bates
ba...@umiami.ir.miami.edu (Barry Miller) wrote:
Why? Are you going to have your Latinized name appearing on a scroll
underneath the heraldic coat you just drew up, and then have it put on
your ties and mugs?
Seriously though, what reason could there be in this day and age for
Latinizing names? Particularly since, as you pointed out, we have been
Anglicizing Roman names for centuries.
Don "my name doesn't decline" Bates
Kevin Tsai
>"Barry" is a bit of a problem. Should it be "Barrius?" If the British
>can call Cicero "Tully" I suppose so, but I'd be happier if I knew of
>someone in antiquity whose name ended in "arrius."
Heh heh heh. There was this Greek orator named "Hhhhharrius"...
>Seriously, if anyone has any ideas I'd love to hear them. Any pointers
>towards guidelines for English->Latin translation in general would also
>be appreciated. (For example, how would one translate "ratchet wrench?")
I remember seeing this long thing for "weekend" in modern Latin. Don't
remember what it is, but I rather use the barbarism "vikend, -is"
instead of that long thing... Anyway, I believe the Vatican published
a book on translating these modern terms into good ol' Latin. (Or
maybe it was just a dictionary. You guys know what I'm talking about,
right?)
Kevin
.
Elizabeth Randell
>Why? Are you going to have your Latinized name appearing on a scroll
>underneath the heraldic coat you just drew up, and then have it put on
>your ties and mugs?
>Seriously though, what reason could there be in this day and age for
>Latinizing names? Particularly since, as you pointed out, we have been
>Anglicizing Roman names for centuries.
Well, it comes in handy if one is going to publish any Latin-texted
music. I'm thinking of the 17th-century German composer Heinrich
Schuetz, who published under the name "Henricus Sagittarius." I've
always thought this was cute of him!
--
Elizabeth Randell Smoke rises warm green
UNC-Chapel Hill Small inherent jade all blaze
eran...@email.unc.edu Turn inside and smile
--Kerry Lutz
Barry Miller
dba...@oregon.uoregon.edu (Don Bates) writes:
> Why? Are you going to have your Latinized name appearing on a scroll
> underneath the heraldic coat you just drew up, and then have it put on
> your ties and mugs?
No.
> Seriously though, what reason could there be in this day and age for
> Latinizing names?
Curiosity, nothing more. I certainly didn't intend to annoy anyone and
I'm sorry if I have.
Barry
Michael W. Martin
(Elizabeth Randell) wrote:
[...]
>>Seriously though, what reason could there be in this day and age for
>>Latinizing names? Particularly since, as you pointed out, we have been
>>Anglicizing Roman names for centuries.
>
>Well, it comes in handy if one is going to publish any Latin-texted
>music. I'm thinking of the 17th-century German composer Heinrich
>Schuetz, who published under the name "Henricus Sagittarius." I've
>always thought this was cute of him!
Not to mention if one is going to do a follow-up to "Latin Phrases for All
Occasions". Check out this recent best seller and you will see that the
author's name appears prominently in Latin.
Michael Martin
aard...@ial4.jsc.nasa.gov
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lettera gesta docet, quid credas allegoria,
moralis quid agas, quo tendas anagogia. #118
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Curt Sampson
>Seriously though, what reason could there be in this day and age for
>Latinizing names? Particularly since, as you pointed out, we have been
>Anglicizing Roman names for centuries.
For the same reason that we've been Anglicizing Roman names, of
course. When one writes letters to one's friends in Latin, it's
easier (and nicer) if the names are declinable.
Another reason is to do it before someone does it for you. I get quite
unhappy (for obvious reasons) when people with a poor knowledge of Latin
call me 'Curtus.'
Curtius
--
Curt Sampson a09...@giant.rsoft.bc.ca Opinions are mine,
Fluor Daniel Wright, Ltd. 604 488 2226 not Fluor Daniel's.
1075 W. Georgia Street
Vancouver, B.C., V6E 4M7 De gustibus, aut bene aut nihil.
William Walderman
"miller" only in pre-Classical Latin -- in Classical Latin it meant "baker."
For Jay, how about "Gaius"? Somewhere I remember reading or hearing that
Jay is actually derived from Latin Gaius, although this doesn't seem too
probable to me. For Barry, my Lewis and Short gives "Barrus", a cognomen
of T. Betucius, mentioned at Cicero, Brutus 46, 169. I would suggest
putting Gaius first, in true Roman fashion and taking the liberty of using
Barrus as your nomen and Pistor as your cognomen: C. Barrus Pistor.
Bill Walderman = Gulielmus Siluanus
Scribebam Alexandriae Virgiensium (actually at Springfield, which is the
next town over from Alexandria)
William Walderman
Martin Morrison
According to Edward Smith's book on Latin names:
Barry is a dimutive of Finbar, Latin: Finbarus.
Jay: I can't find any derivation, but because a jay is apparently a bird
of the crow family, you could use Corvus.
Miller: Molitor.
Timothy Pepper
On 30 Dec 1994, Kevin Tsai wrote:
> (Barry Miller) writes:
>
> >"Barry" is a bit of a problem. Should it be "Barrius?" If the British
> >can call Cicero "Tully" I suppose so, but I'd be happier if I knew of
> >someone in antiquity whose name ended in "arrius."
>
> Heh heh heh. There was this Greek orator named "Hhhhharrius"...
>
This refers to Catullus' poem 84, in which a social climber named Arrius
tries to mimic a Greek accent (a sign of learning in Roman times) by
adding "h" to everything. This may be the same Arrius as Q. Arrius, a
follower of the triumvir Crassus mentioned by Cicero in Brutus 242.
> I remember seeing this long thing for "weekend" in modern Latin. Don't
> remember what it is, but I rather use the barbarism "vikend, -is"
> instead of that long thing... Anyway, I believe the Vatican published
> a book on translating these modern terms into good ol' Latin. (Or
> maybe it was just a dictionary. You guys know what I'm talking about,
> right?)
You're refering to _Latinitas_, a quarterly magazine published by the
Vatican to "update" the Latin language. You can find it at any bookstore
with a large selection (and I mean large), though it would be of
questionable use since decidedly few things are written using those
words. "Vikend" of course wouldn't work in church Latin, and for
classical Latin instead of using a k (hardly ever used; Kalendae I think is the
only common word with it) I'd suggest "vicend."
"Vird"
Tim Pepper
Kevin Tsai
>In Article <mmorrisnD...@netcom.com>, mmor...@netcom.com (Martin
>Morrison) wrote:
>>Barry Jay Miller
>>Miller: Molitor.
> A better word might be "pistor", which is a "miller, grinder, or a
>baker", assuming of course that "miller" was the original meaning behind the
>name.
Ramsay MacMullen's _Roman Social Relations_ says that "the theft of [a
family name] by an outsider was punishable at law" (108). Heh heh heh.
Moreover, MacM goes on to say how names denoted family origins--
occupation names were plebeian, names formed from verbs were
provincial, Asiatic or Greek names denoted servile forefathers, but
names such as "Lucinius" or "Brutus" were aristocratic, etc. However,
he doesn't say how these names came about. Surely under the Etruscans
these aristocratic Latin names must have had a rather low social
class? Or perhaps these patrician names were simply older and thus
more prestigious, and the others (occupation, etc.) were either
foriegn or relatively new?
Perhaps a parallel can be drawn with the Chinese (Han). Certain names
feel more "Han" just for the sheer fact that they were the canonized
founding families way back when.
Kevin, whose last name might be a bit tough to Latinize
.
Michael W. Martin
"Molitor" means "a builder or a contriver" in classical Latin. It comes
from molior, -iri, a deponent verb meaning "to stir, displace, work at,
construct, contrive".
A better word might be "pistor", which is a "miller, grinder, or a
baker", assuming of course that "miller" was the original meaning behind the
name.
Michael Martin
aard...@ial4.jsc.nasa.gov
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lettera gesta docet, quid credas allegoria,
moralis quid agas, quo tendas anagogia.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry Miller
>
> Kevin, whose last name might be a bit tough to Latinize
But the whole point (inarticulately expressed, sorry) of my original post
was this: Even though few of us (unless the Vatican is listening, and I'm
not too sure about them any more) will ever write anything in Latin that
we'd sign our names to, and even fewer will be emblazoning ersatz
coats-of-arms on neckties and coffee cups, aren't you the least bit curious
about how _you_ might have signed your doctoral dissertation in 1395*?
Forget about Latinizing "Barry Miller." Well, don't forget about it
entirely - I've seen some wonderfully literate replies to my posting - how
would you transmogrify your own name into Latine?
Tsaius? It has a nice ring to it.
Barry
*In my case, possibly "X, his mark."
Martyn Dryden
Latin? I'm trying to translate some of Goldfinger
('Auridigitus'?) and it would help if I knew the hero's name in
Latin.
Wolf+ 'She said the man in the gaberdine suit was a spy;
I said Be careful, his bow tie is really a camera'
Kevin Tsai
>Kevin Tsai writes:
>>
>> Kevin, whose last name might be a bit tough to Latinize
>But the whole point (inarticulately expressed, sorry) of my original post
>was this: Even though few of us (unless the Vatican is listening, and I'm
>not too sure about them any more) will ever write anything in Latin that
>we'd sign our names to, and even fewer will be emblazoning ersatz
>coats-of-arms on neckties and coffee cups, aren't you the least bit curious
>about how _you_ might have signed your doctoral dissertation in 1395*?
I don't think I objected to Latinizing one's name in my article, I
believe. I only asked about the origin of Roman patrician names...
>Forget about Latinizing "Barry Miller." Well, don't forget about it
>entirely - I've seen some wonderfully literate replies to my posting - how
>would you transmogrify your own name into Latine?
>Tsaius? It has a nice ring to it.
"Tsai" is pronounced with "ts" as one consonant. The closest way to
spell it is probably with "z", which is pronounced as "dz". (I'm not
sure if "ts" is pronounced as "t-s" or as one single consonant. I
*think* it's "t-s." Not sure.) But I think in 1395 my name might've
been something a bit closer to "Tswa." So I guess we have Zua, Zuae?
Gosh, that makes me sound like Sza-sza or something. It's also rather
un-Latin, too, since "z" is only used for Greek words.
Or, as one poster has kindly informed me, since my name means "tea" in
modern Greek, I could just say "Herbata" or something like that. No,
that's kinda... blech!
Kevinius is pretty easy, eh? According to a book I read somewhere,
"Kevin" is supposed to mean "the fair child." So we can have Pulcher?
(Hey, I'll be Pulcher Something, sorta like Clodius Pulcher!) Or
Pulchernatus? But I don't think the Romans joined words like the
Germans do today. I used to be Gaius in my high school Latin class.
Kevin, who should go to sleep....
.
Martin Morrison
the last name is usually left alone.
IanMaclure
>about how _you_ might have signed your doctoral dissertation in 1395*?
Assuming that you were somewhere you could get a doctorate in 1395,
maybe Pisa or Paris you would probably have signed it.
Finbarus Scotus ( assuming you are a Scots Miller )
IBM ( aka Iohannes Ille Liber ) ( or something like that )
--
################ No Times Like The Maritimes, Eh! ######################
# IBM aka # Ian_M...@QMGATE.arc.nasa.gov (desk) #
# Ian B MacLure # maclure@(remulak/eos).arc.nasa.gov (currently) #
########## Opinions expressed here are mine, mine, mine. ###############
Ira Smailer
: In <1995Jan3.2...@umiami.ir.miami.edu> ba...@umiami.ir.miami.edu (Barry Miller) writes:
: >would you transmogrify your own name into Latine?
: >Tsaius? It has a nice ring to it.
: "Tsai" is pronounced with "ts" as one consonant. The closest way to
: spell it is probably with "z", which is pronounced as "dz". (I'm not
: sure if "ts" is pronounced as "t-s" or as one single consonant. I
: *think* it's "t-s." Not sure.) But I think in 1395 my name might've
: been something a bit closer to "Tswa." So I guess we have Zua, Zuae?
: Gosh, that makes me sound like Sza-sza or something. It's also rather
: un-Latin, too, since "z" is only used for Greek words.
Pinyin uses 'ts' --> 'c' which I find pretty accurate. Only, in Latin
reading, 'caius' would probably come out as 'kaius' which I don't find
very tasty.
Another way would be to look what 'tsai' means (in Chinese), besides
being a last name. Hmm. I don't have my dictionary here, but I don't
think it means anything in particular. But maybe the current victim
of latinization, oops, Mr. Tsai can tell us more.
Ira