How does green-tea turn pink?
faro...@hotmail.com
whole milk. The green-tea leaves are boiled in water till the orginal
volume is reduced to half with a very small amount of baking soda,
after boiling dark pinkish layer tends to float on the surface, then
some more water is added and it is aerated with a ladle for a long time
say 25-30 minutes, otherwise the color does not change and it remians
brownish with a mix of green. After the manual aeration process whole
tea becomes sligtly pinkish. Addition of milk at this point makes the
green tea bright pink. It is served with pistachios, chopped almonds
and sugar.
Does anyone have an idea as to what kind of (oxidation) is turning the
tannins or perhaps other pigments to a pink color? Certainly there the
tea does not acting as an indicator (ie changing color due to baking
soda) since adding lemon juice does not perceptibly change its color.
What could be the chemistry behind the bright pink coloration (exactly
like a strawberry shake) of green-tea?
Thanks
Mark Tarka
Hmmm.
Carotene, a long-chain with multiple conjugated
double bonds is responsible for the orange color
of carrots.
Where do you find such a chromophore in your tea?
Mark (Send sample with nuts and sugar to ....)
Muhammar
>
> Carotene, a long-chain with multiple conjugated
> double bonds is responsible for the orange color
> of carrots.
>
> Where do you find such a chromophore in your tea?
>
>
> Mark (Send sample with nuts and sugar to ....)
In areated Kashmiri carrot tea, of course
Mark Tarka
No, no, no.
What I mean/meant, where do you find a
chromophore that gives you the pink
color you claim.
Metal ions will tinge a solution.
Tannins will color liquids brown, yes?
Coffee and tea with cream or milk is
tan or light brown.
Where do you get a chromophore yielding
pink.
Mark (No, I do not want "a spot" of tea, I
want _three_ :-)
faro...@hotmail.com
> muha...@hotmail.com (Muhammar) wrote in message
news:<a6cffac9.04112...@posting.google.com>...
> > mark_...@yahoo.com (Mark Tarka) wrote in message news:
> > >
> > > Carotene, a long-chain with multiple conjugated
> > > double bonds is responsible for the orange color
> > > of carrots.
> > >
> > > Where do you find such a chromophore in your tea?
> > >
> > >
> > > Mark (Send sample with nuts and sugar to ....)
> >
> > In areated Kashmiri carrot tea, of course
>
> No, no, no.
>
> What I mean/meant, where do you find a
> chromophore that gives you the pink
> color you claim.
This was the main question, which you as usual gave a nonsensical
guess.
>
> Metal ions will tinge a solution.
Correct, and all the local people should have died after drinking it.
>
> Tannins will color liquids brown, yes?
Think so.
>
> Coffee and tea with cream or milk is
> tan or light brown.
...if made correctly but I am talking about green-tea (hoping it is
called the same in your American English.)
>
> Where do you get a chromophore yielding
> pink.
This is still unanswered. How does *green-tea* turn pink during
aeration? Does Uncle Al have a clue as to could be the chromophore
formed during oxidation causing the same strawberry pink color in milk?
dlzc1 D:cox T:net@nospam.com N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)
<faro...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1101668455.0...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
...
> ...if made correctly but I am talking about green-tea (hoping it is
> called the same in your American English.)
The only thing I can help with... yes it is called green tea.
David A. Smith
Bob
Scirus turns up zero journal articles on
kashmiri tea pink
(Though it gave a few omitting the pink.)
I browsed a few web pages, and sort of have a couple of clues, though
the info -- including yours above -- is not consistent.
My vague ideas include...
Are the nuts relevant? I got the idea they might be from one recipe,
but your procedure above would appear to exclude that.
I'm not sure I would exclude pH indicator. The sources I read variably
suggested that milk or NaHCO3 bring out the pink. Your lemon juice may
be irrelevant. (Isn't tea acidic??) Why not take some in the lab and
measure pH, and adjust it with HCl or NaOH. Perhaps it is a longshot,
but it is an easy test that deals with one class of explanation that
seems plausible. A reversible color change in the lab would be
informative. Even an irreversible one might be helpful.
I mentioned that your description is inconsistent. You say that the
pink develops during the initial boiling ("dark pinkish layer"). You
then go on to talk about the aeration step. Not obvious that the pink
comes from the aeration. Or did I misunderstand?
If you really have a pink solid at one point, try removing it, and
putting it in fresh water, for subsequent tests.
Maybe you can get a thesis out of this -- with no waste, just consume
everything.
bob
Mark Tarka
> Mark Tarka wrote:
> > muha...@hotmail.com (Muhammar) wrote in message
> news:<a6cffac9.04112...@posting.google.com>...
> > > mark_...@yahoo.com (Mark Tarka) wrote in message news:
> > > >
> > > > Carotene, a long-chain with multiple conjugated
> > > > double bonds is responsible for the orange color
> > > > of carrots.
> > > >
> > > > Where do you find such a chromophore in your tea?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Mark (Send sample with nuts and sugar to ....)
> > >
> > > In areated Kashmiri carrot tea, of course
> >
> > No, no, no.
> >
> > What I mean/meant, where do you find a
> > chromophore that gives you the pink
> > color you claim.
>
> This was the main question, which you as usual gave a nonsensical
> guess.
Yes, English is not your first language and
intelligence not your main forte :-) If my
question was nonsensical, why do you grasp it
so tightly?
> > Metal ions will tinge a solution.
>
> Correct, and all the local people should have died after drinking it.
A strange comment.
> >
> > Tannins will color liquids brown, yes?
>
> Think so.
>
> >
> > Coffee and tea with cream or milk is
> > tan or light brown.
>
> ...if made correctly but I am talking about green-tea (hoping it is
> called the same in your American English.)
>
> >
> > Where do you get a chromophore yielding
> > pink.
>
> This is still unanswered. How does *green-tea* turn pink during
> aeration? Does Uncle Al have a clue as to could be the chromophore
> formed during oxidation causing the same strawberry pink color in milk?
Now you've stolen MY word, "chromophore", after
insulting me. Common begger.
Mark (Carotene _is_ a long-chain conjugated
chromophore and is _orange_; pink would
adsorb at a longer wavelength, IMHO. Like
Birk, you're lacking in some fundamental
concepts. :-)
Uncle Al
>
> Bob,
>
> Perhaps this can give you a clue. Instead aerating green tea I thought
> I should oxidize it by chemical means. Boiled some green tea in a
> microwave containg baking soda...no color change. Then added a few
> grains of Clorox peroxide bleach and boiled again. In a minute it
> turns dark reddish tinge (like flavoured tea). Added milk and
> "chemical" Kashmiri-tea is ready. The very same color is obtained in
> minutes instead of aerating it for 30 minutes. As you know better that
> green tea is said to contain antioxidants and this little experiment
> also proves that. The peroxide radicals must have been destroyed...and
> antioxidants converted into (reddish) chromophores bearing groups,
> which on mixing with milk become pink as expected.
Kewl! Try adding a little hydrogen peroxide that won't ruin the
flavor by chlorinating organics. Oxy-Clean is sodium percarbonate,
isn't it? That is your alkali and oxidant all in one stable package.
You might revolutionize the ceremony! Patent.
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf
SNUMBER6
>The problem is that you always need someone to fight with. Earlier it
>was Richard, then Dirk and then me. Who is next? Yourself?
Nah ... he'd never fight with himself ... too busy playing with himself ...
unless ... unless ...hmmm ...he's into sadomasochistic masturbation ...
I'm really staying out of this (Mark and Farooq) ... just couldn't pass up such
a good straight line ...
Be seeing you
In the Village
Number 6
Mohammed Farooq
>> This was the main question, which you as usual gave a nonsensical
>> guess.
>Yes, English is not your first language and
>intelligence not your main forte :-)
>
> > Where do you get a chromophore yielding
> > pink.
>
> This is still unanswered. How does *green-tea* turn pink during
> aeration? Does Uncle Al have a clue as to could be the chromophore
> formed during oxidation causing the same strawberry pink color in milk?
>Now you've stolen MY word, "chromophore", after
>insulting me. Common begger.
FIRST of all learn how to spell beggAr, before commenting on MY
English.
Who insulted you? BTW Chromophore is not your propriety word, it was
coined when your great grandfather was a small boy in the mid 18th
century by a *German* chemist Witt ... which you certainly lack too
much.
Mark Tarka
> Mark Tarka wrote:
> >> This was the main question, which you as usual gave a nonsensical
> >> guess.
>
> >Yes, English is not your first language and
> >intelligence not your main forte :-)
>
>
>
> >
> > > Where do you get a chromophore yielding
> > > pink.
> >
> > This is still unanswered. How does *green-tea* turn pink during
> > aeration? Does Uncle Al have a clue as to could be the chromophore
> > formed during oxidation causing the same strawberry pink color in milk?
>
> >Now you've stolen MY word, "chromophore", after
> >insulting me. Common begger.
>
>
> FIRST of all learn how to spell beggAr, before commenting on MY
> English.
Excellent and important point, correcting my
slur. Feel better, beggar?
> Who insulted you? BTW Chromophore is not your propriety word, it was
> coined when your great grandfather was a small boy in the mid 18th
> century by a *German* chemist Witt ... which you certainly lack too
> much.
I introduced it into the thread, sweetie.
> The problem is that you always need someone to fight with. Earlier it
> was Richard, then Dirk and then me. Who is next? Yourself?
I take it, like Dirk and Richard before you, your
question still remains unanswered.
Mark (...if not a chromophore, a complex, what metals,
what ligands ... more tea, chappies? :-)
Ragnarok
> flavor by chlorinating organics. Oxy-Clean is sodium percarbonate,
> isn't it? That is your alkali and oxidant all in one stable package.
> You might revolutionize the ceremony! Patent.
Yeah... But if you sell in a "developed" country it you won't pass
go, you won't collect 200$, you will go straight to jail. Cause all
things made by hard-working chemists are the work of Satan ant
chemistry is the eleventh capital sin of the Grass Lover's church.
Chemical peace,
Iulian
faro...@hotmail.com
> > >Now you've stolen MY word, "chromophore", after
> > >insulting me. Common begger.
> >
> >
> > FIRST of all learn how to spell beggAr, before commenting on MY
> > English.
>
was
> > coined when your great grandfather was a small boy in the mid 18th
> > century by a *German* chemist Witt ... which you certainly lack too
> > much.
>
> I introduced it into the thread, sweetie.
Was this meant to reveal your s**ual disorientations, Ms. Tarka?
Please seek professional help.
Discussion closed...
faro...@hotmail.com
Uncle Al wrote:
> Mohammed Farooq wrote:
> >
> > Bob,
> >
> > Perhaps this can give you a clue. Instead aerating green tea I
thought
> > I should oxidize it by chemical means. Boiled some green tea in a
> > microwave containg baking soda...no color change. Then added a few
> > grains of Clorox peroxide bleach and boiled again. In a minute it
> > turns dark reddish tinge (like flavoured tea). Added milk and
> > "chemical" Kashmiri-tea is ready. The very same color is obtained
in
> > minutes instead of aerating it for 30 minutes. As you know better
that
> > green tea is said to contain antioxidants and this little
experiment
> > also proves that. The peroxide radicals must have been
destroyed...and
> > antioxidants converted into (reddish) chromophores bearing groups,
> > which on mixing with milk become pink as expected.
>
> Kewl! Try adding a little hydrogen peroxide that won't ruin the
> flavor by chlorinating organics. Oxy-Clean is sodium percarbonate,
> isn't it? That is your alkali and oxidant all in one stable package.
> You might revolutionize the ceremony! Patent.
>
I would have tried with H2O2 as well, but this was the only available
peroxide. The sole purpose was to find out whether oxidized green tea
is reddih pink or not, and the reaction is not reversible. This was
proved by this simple test, because Bob was suggesting that pH might
one of the factor that is turning it pink. Perhaps the pink oxidation
product(s) is due to oxidized polyphenolics.
hanson
news:1101809128.1...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> > Mohammed Farooq wrote:
> > > Perhaps this can give you a clue. Instead aerating green tea I
> > > Boiled some green tea in a icrowave containg baking soda...
> > > no color change. Then added a few rains of Clorox peroxide
> > > bleach and boiled again. In a minute it urns dark reddish tinge
> > > (like flavoured tea). Added milk and "chemical" Kashmiri-tea
> > > is ready. The very same color is obtained in minutes
> > > instead of aerating it for 30 minutes. As you know better
> > > that green tea is said to contain antioxidants and this little
> > > experiment also proves that. The peroxide radicals must have been
> > > destroyed...and antioxidants converted into (reddish)
> > > chromophores bearing groups, which on mixing with milk
> > > become pink as expected.
> > >
This color changing event seems to me to be the classical reactions
you get from a ubiquitous class of compounds found in flora called
*Anthocyanes*, that function as color changing pH indicators and
chelators, and are used as food additives like Chrysanthemin,
Cyanin, Malvin und Pelargonin etc.
http://www.uni-regensburg.de/Fakultaeten/nat_Fak_IV/
Organische_Chemie/Didaktik/Keusch/p26_anth.htm
Google: 10,400 hits for Anthocyane
> >
[AL]
> > Kewl! Try adding a little hydrogen peroxide that won't ruin the
> > flavor by chlorinating organics. Oxy-Clean is sodium percarbonate,
> > isn't it? That is your alkali and oxidant all in one stable package.
> > You might revolutionize the ceremony! Patent.
> >
Some more details on this highly TV advertised "Oxy-Clean"
from:
http://www.gotmead.com/mead-research/mld/2003/983.html
31 Dec 2002 rec.crafts.brewing: Oxi-Clean is way cheaper, than
Logic, Inc's "One-Step". It does not need to be rinsed off.
Logic, Inc. "One Step"
Sodium carbonate peroxihydrate > 40% CAS# 15630-89-4
Sodium Sulfate > 40% CAS# 7757-82-6
Orange Glow "OxiClean"
Sodium Percarbonate 50-70% CAS# 15630-89-4
Sodium Carbonate (Soda Ash) 30-50% CAS# 497-19-8
>
[Farooq]
donald j haarmann
> There is a tea known as "Kashmiri Tea", made from common green-tea and
> whole milk.
[snip]
[I have not read all replies to this.]
I would note that Harold McGee, On Food and Cooking : The Science and Lore of
the Kitchen. Simone & Schuster 1984. Notes that tea among other plants contains
polyphenoloxidase, "that causes browning in many fruits. The action of the
enzyme and oxygen produces [during fermentation] a series of intermediate compounds: first , yellow,
tannic complexes, then orange-reddish tannic ones, and finally condensed brownish
complexes that are less tannic because they have already bound to each other."
These process would have take place when the tea was fermented, however, as
green tea has not been they take place when the tea is brewed. Although commercial
"green tea" is steamed - destroying its enzymes. I assume your tea is as picked?
Milk binds tannins making the teas taste less astringent.
--
donald j haarmann - independently dubious
Mark Tarka
My lawyers are still trying to find
the telephone number of your lawers.
Mark (So I held on a bit too long, but I did not stroke!)
faro...@hotmail.com
> snum...@aol.com (SNUMBER6) wrote in message
news:<20041129111500...@mb-m20.aol.com>...
> > >From: faro...@hotmail.com (Mohammed Farooq)
> >
> > >The problem is that you always need someone to fight with. Earlier
it
> > >was Richard, then Dirk and then me. Who is next? Yourself?
> >
> > Nah ... he'd never fight with himself ... too busy playing with
himself ...
> > unless ... unless ...hmmm ...he's into sadomasochistic masturbation
...
> >
> > I'm really staying out of this (Mark and Farooq) ... just couldn't
pass up such
> > a good straight line ...
> My lawyers are still trying to find
> the telephone number of your lawers.
>
One can be hundred percent sure that Snumber's *lawers* can not exist
in this century!
Is *lawer* your own word too :-) Good that he didn't claim a lineage to
O.N. Witt otherwise I would have considered abandoning the word
chromophore.
Mark Tarka
Damn, I doing better'n Uncle Al ... you've just been
criticizing my spelling, and my alleged crazy guesses at
answers, not calling me a liar or correcting what
I post in this group.
The idea is communication, Faooq, and we have yours :-)
Mark (Thanks for your contribution to our On-Line
Chemistry Nut-Case Project. I'm required by
international law to inform you ....)
faro...@hotmail.com
Mark Tarka wrote:
>
> Damn, I doing better'n Uncle Al ... you've just been
> criticizing my spelling, and my alleged crazy guesses at
> answers, not calling me a liar
Liar??? I was not taught to call people names for no reason, just like
you had been doing continuously in various in response to questions
posted by me, see your posting history eg in "Thermogravimetric
Calculations"
> or correcting what
What should I correct when you propose (presumably optical) isomers of
sulfuric acid in one of the thread.
> I post in this group.
>
> The idea is communication, Faooq, and we have yours :-)
>
Sadly, Faooq doesn't exist.
>
> Mark (Thanks for your contribution to our On-Line
> Chemistry Nut-Case Project. I'm required by
> international law to inform you ....)
Does your name top the list?
Though I thought of closing this crap discussion, but this was for your
comfortable sleep.
Mark Tarka
> Mark Tarka wrote:
> >
> > Damn, I doing better'n Uncle Al ... you've just been
> > criticizing my spelling, and my alleged crazy guesses at
> > answers, not calling me a liar
>
> Liar??? I was not taught to call people names for no reason, just like
> you had been doing continuously in various in response to questions
> posted by me, see your posting history eg in "Thermogravimetric
> Calculations"
You mean, this:
|faro...@hotmail.com wrote in message |news:<1099924097.9...@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>...
|> There is a problem in TG analysis, the answer of which given in the
|> book seems to be doubtful. Could somebody point out whether this
|[Aaarrrrrrrggggghhhhhhh! SNIP!]
|
|Contact the damn author, or if dead, give
|us the title of the book, #*$%%@*#.
|
|#*$%%@*# = "Farooq", if Farooq was testing the
|critical thinking ability of any reader of
|his post; otherwise, "idiot".
|
|
| Mark (Brilliantly clever or simply delusional?
| Either way, high maintance cost. Worth it?)
|
So, you admit you weren't testing
the critical thinking ability of
any reader of your post.
> > or correcting what
>
> What should I correct when you propose (presumably optical) isomers of
> sulfuric acid in one of the thread.
Not my fault you're not up to
speed on conformational isomers
of sulfuric acid. What is it,
syn-,anti-, E-,Z-, or, endo-,exo-,
wrt the hydrogens? :-)
> > I post in this group.
> >
> > The idea is communication, Faooq, and we have yours :-)
> >
>
> Sadly, Faooq doesn't exist.
Treu.
> >
> > Mark (Thanks for your contribution to our On-Line
> > Chemistry Nut-Case Project. I'm required by
> > international law to inform you ....)
>
> Does your name top the list?
No, it just precedes the announcement.
> Though I thought of closing this crap discussion, but this was for your
> comfortable sleep.
These sentence fragments indicate your mental condition?
Mark (.... :-)
Mohammed Farooq
[Farooq]
> > What should I correct when you propose (presumably optical) isomers of
> > sulfuric acid in one of the thread.
[Mark Tarka]
>
> Not my fault you're not up to
> speed on conformational isomers
> of sulfuric acid. What is it,
> syn-,anti-, E-,Z-, or, endo-,exo-,
> wrt the hydrogens? :-)
Nice try with a plethora of jargon, do try again but with a better excuse!