chewing laurel leaf
Allen Adler
According to Robert Graves, The Greek Myths, vol.1, p.18, people
used to chew laurel leaves, which he says contain potassium
cyanide. In view of the recent discussion on sci.chem about
eating the kernels of apricot pits, I would be interested in
a similar assessment of the practice of chewing laurel leaves.
Allan Adler
ad...@hera.wku.edu
Bob Bruner
from) the leaves and how much you consume.
Clearly, if it was a common practice to chew laurel leaves, then they
do not contain 'too much' toxin.
Plants are unable to run away when attacked. They tend to contain
quite a variety of toxic substances, as defense. The defense is mainly
against insects and small animals, so the level of toxicity is often
not significant for us.
A few years back, when the US went into Somalia, there was much talk
about chewing khat -- a plant that contains an amphetamine-like
substance. Common practice, in many parts of the world -- with only
modest effect, as for caffeine and alcohol in our society. Of course,
if the active compound were purified and consumed in large doses, that
would be another matter.
bob
Bill Bonde
>
> It is all a matter of amount -- how much cyanide is in (or released
> from) the leaves and how much you consume.
>
> Clearly, if it was a common practice to chew laurel leaves, then they
> do not contain 'too much' toxin.
>
> Plants are unable to run away when attacked. They tend to contain
> quite a variety of toxic substances, as defense. The defense is mainly
> against insects and small animals, so the level of toxicity is often
> not significant for us.
>
> A few years back, when the US went into Somalia, there was much talk
> about chewing khat -- a plant that contains an amphetamine-like
> substance. Common practice, in many parts of the world -- with only
> modest effect, as for caffeine and alcohol in our society. Of course,
> if the active compound were purified and consumed in large doses, that
> would be another matter.
>
donald haarmann
Allen Adler wrote in message <2g1zp9d...@hera.wku.edu>...
>
>According to Robert Graves, The Greek Myths, vol.1, p.18, people
>used to chew laurel leaves, which he says contain potassium
>cyanide. In view of the recent discussion on sci.chem about
>eating the kernels of apricot pits, I would be interested in
>a similar assessment of the practice of chewing laurel leaves.
>
>ad...@hera.wku.edu
Well.... It is reliable reported that: "The Delaware Indians used laurel for
suicide." A monkey in the Washington zoo died when it ate laurel flowers and
leaves handed it by a visitor. Same for - angora goats, Barbary sheep
(Michigan zoo), six trained goats - Christmas week 1894 Philadelphia Dime
Museum.
The active principle is "andromedotoxin" first isolated from Andromeda japonica
in 1882.
Laurels are members of the Ericaceae. Heath family. Which includes the
Rhododendron.
JM Kingsbury
Poisonous Plants of the United States and Canada
Prentice Hall 1964
donald j haarmann
------------------------------------
It provokes the desire but it takes away the performance. Therefore
much drink may be said to be an equivocator with lechery:
It makes him and it mars him; it sets him on and it takes him off.
William Shakespeare
Dick Wisan
donald-...@worldnet.att.net says...
>
>Allen Adler wrote in message <2g1zp9d...@hera.wku.edu>...
>>
>>According to Robert Graves, The Greek Myths, vol.1, p.18, people
>>used to chew laurel leaves, which he says contain potassium
>
>Well.... It is reliable reported that: "The Delaware Indians used laurel for
>suicide." A monkey in the Washington zoo died when it ate laurel flowers and
>leaves handed it by a visitor. Same for - angora goats, Barbary sheep
>(Michigan zoo), six trained goats - Christmas week 1894 Philadelphia Dime
>Museum.
>
>The active principle is "andromedotoxin" first isolated from Andromeda
>japonica in 1882.
>
>Laurels are members of the Ericaceae. Heath family. Which includes the
>Rhododendron.
What is the relation between bay leaf (on the spice rack in the grocery
store) and laurel? I had the impression that "bay" was another name for
laurel.
How vainly men themselves amaze
To win the oaks, the palms, the bays....
--
R. N. (Dick) Wisan
Andrea
Dick Wisan wrote in message <6u63iq$o...@news1.newsguy.com>...
<snip>
>What is the relation between bay leaf (on the spice rack in the grocery
>store) and laurel? I had the impression that "bay" was another name for
>laurel.
>R. N. (Dick) Wisan
>
same leaf used by the Greeks.
Most botanicals/herbals will list the compounds, as in this site:
http://www.botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/l/larbay10.html
According to http://www.hepting.com/thebot/catalog97.htm , the bay laurel is
a member of the family lauraceĘ. Supposedly, this is the same plant used in
reference to Apollo. I can find no mention of toxins, however.
I do recall (dang, where is that source?) that the "true" (bay) laurel that
what used by the Greeks should not be confused with the common (American)
laurel, which is extremely poisonous. Can someone verify this?
--Andrea
Rodger Whitlock
>In article <6u3dau$s...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>,
>donald-...@worldnet.att.net says...
>>
>>Allen Adler wrote in message <2g1zp9d...@hera.wku.edu>...
>>>
>>>According to Robert Graves, The Greek Myths, vol.1, p.18, people
>>>used to chew laurel leaves, which he says contain potassium
>>>cyanide...
>>
>>Well.... It is reliable reported that: "The Delaware Indians used laurel for
>>suicide." A monkey in the Washington zoo died when it ate laurel flowers and
>>leaves handed it by a visitor. Same for - angora goats, Barbary sheep
>>(Michigan zoo), six trained goats - Christmas week 1894 Philadelphia Dime
>>Museum.
>>
>>The active principle is "andromedotoxin" first isolated from Andromeda
>>japonica in 1882.
>>
>>Laurels are members of the Ericaceae. Heath family. Which includes the
>>Rhododendron.
>
>store) and laurel? I had the impression that "bay" was another name for
>laurel.
You guys are discussing several different plants here.
"Laurel" in the eastern US usually means the "mountain laurel"
_Kalmia_latifolia_, in the family Ericaceae, related to rhododendrons and
heathers as noted.
The laurel of classical Greece and of the modern spice cabinet is the leaf
of the "bay tree" _Laurus_nobilis_, in the family Lauraceae, which not
very big. Off hand, I can't remember any other genera that are in it, but
I know there are some.
Some of what is sold as "bay leaves" in the grocery store is actually the
leaf of _Umbellularia_californica_, another member of the Lauraceae native
to northern California and southern Oregon and commonly known as "myrtle"
in coastal Oregon. The true bay leaf (Laurus nobilis) has much the better
flavour.
There are also the "laurels" used for hedging: "English laurel" and
"Portuguese laurel". These are big evergreen _Prunus_ species (the latter
is _Prunus_lusitanica_, but I forget the specific epithet of the former)
and are in the family Rosaceae, related to apples, cherries, roses, and a
great many other common trees and shrubs.
I imagine there are a few other "laurels" I haven't thought of.
Let's hear it for proper botanical names for plants instead of these
ambiguous "common" names which do nothing but confuse people. You
want *real* confusion? Try "bluebells". <sarcasm> Oh, I forgot: it's
*dreadfully* elitist to admit you can actually pronounce a Latin word. We
wouldn't want the ignorant to feel bad about themselves, now would
we?</sarcasm>
[That last diatribe wasn't aimed at participants in this thread...but if
the shoe happens to fit anybody...]
--
Rodger Whitlock
Bill Walker
>Plants are unable to run away when attacked.
Well, maybe. They might just be like glass flowing - they just run away
REALLY slowly. We just need to find an environmental scientist willing
to wait around long enough while someone attacks a plant (we will have to
find an extremely amoral environmental scientist, and measure its rate of
retreat.
It's well known (I love this phrase) that carrots scream when vegetarians
thoughtlessly and visciously rip them from the ground. It's cruelty to
vegetables. The carrot simply screams so slowly that the frequency is
very low, and cannot be perceived by the human ear.
: )
Bill
Bob Bruner wrote:
> It is all a matter of amount -- how much cyanide is in (or released
> from) the leaves and how much you consume.
>
> Clearly, if it was a common practice to chew laurel leaves, then they
> do not contain 'too much' toxin.
>
> Plants are unable to run away when attacked. They tend to contain
> quite a variety of toxic substances, as defense. The defense is mainly
> against insects and small animals, so the level of toxicity is often
> not significant for us.
>
> A few years back, when the US went into Somalia, there was much talk
> about chewing khat -- a plant that contains an amphetamine-like
> substance. Common practice, in many parts of the world -- with only
> modest effect, as for caffeine and alcohol in our society. Of course,
> if the active compound were purified and consumed in large doses, that
> would be another matter.
>
> bob
>
> On 18 Sep 1998 19:43:00 -0500, Allen Adler <ad...@hera.wku.edu> wrote:
>
> >
> >According to Robert Graves, The Greek Myths, vol.1, p.18, people
> >used to chew laurel leaves, which he says contain potassium
donald haarmann
Rodger Whitlock wrote in message ...
[snip]
>Let's hear it for proper botanical names for plants instead of these
>ambiguous "common" names which do nothing but confuse people. You
>want *real* confusion? Try "bluebells". <sarcasm> Oh, I forgot: it's
>*dreadfully* elitist to admit you can actually pronounce a Latin word. We
>wouldn't want the ignorant to feel bad about themselves, now would
>we?</sarcasm>
>
>[That last diatribe wasn't aimed at participants in this thread...but if
>the shoe happens to fit anybody...]
>
>--
>Rodger Whitlock
O’! that “laurel.” Laurus nobilis L. from the genus Cinnamomum. American
representatives being the sassafras and avocado. The leaves of the
“sweet bay” AKA “Laurel”, “True laurel”, “Bay leaves” are used in cooking.
You cannot make corned-beef or tongue with out bay leaves!
“The Greeks too had a superstitious regard for bay. They dedicated the
tree to Apollo, and as such viewed it as emblematic of the suns god’s
powers. It provided protection against evil and guarded man’s social
well-being. More ever, it was related to cultural activities: music and song,
poetry and drama. The Greeks also related bay with prophecies; the
Delpnic priestesses, oracles of Apollo, held bay leaves between their
lips as they made their prophecies. It is also supposed that they were
drugged with bay as a part of the ritual.
“Still another famous use of bay developed from the Apollonian symbol
the tree was. [sic] It is suggested that this practice gave rise to the term
baccalaureate, derived from “bacca-laureus” of laurel-berry, associated
with academics.”
WH Hylton Ed. The Rodale Herb Book 1974
While the use of Linnean botanical terms is useful, their use is
not with out peril! The descriptive “rape seed oil” from the Latin “rapum”
apparently is now considered political incorrect and is to be replaced with
“Canola oil.” However, most still use the Latin word for scabbard when a perfectly
good Middle English word (a hollow or empty space) exists. The English
version has advantage in that it can also be used as a verb albeit as a pejorative.
donald j haarmann
-------------------------
Tis thought the King is dead: we will not stay,
the Bay trees in our country are all wither'd
Richard II
Laurent Houtent
wrote:
>Bob Bruner wrote:
>>Plants are unable to run away when attacked.
>
>Well, maybe. They might just be like glass flowing - they just run away
>REALLY slowly. We just need to find an environmental scientist willing
>to wait around long enough while someone attacks a plant (we will have to
>find an extremely amoral environmental scientist, and measure its rate of
>retreat.
>
>It's well known (I love this phrase) that carrots scream when vegetarians
>thoughtlessly and visciously rip them from the ground. It's cruelty to
>vegetables. The carrot simply screams so slowly that the frequency is
>very low, and cannot be perceived by the human ear.
>
This is why rabbits have such big ears.
Bruce Hamilton
>While the use of Linnean botanical terms is useful, their use is
>not with out peril. The descriptive rape seed oil from the Latin
>rapum apparently is now considered political incorrect and is to
>be replaced with Canola oil.
No. Conventional rape seed oil remains rape seed oil. Canola oil
is used to describe the selectively-bred variety of rape that was
low in erucic acid - which is toxic in large amounts. The renaming
was purely a marketing tool to separate the low erucic acid oil
from the high erucic oil. You've been reading too many of Uncle Al's
posts :-)
Bruce Hamilton