explosion or implosion
okoth
hei
a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen is highly combustible, we all know that,
but is this an explosion or an implosion?
i mean do the products take up more volume than the reactants? in case they
do not, i would say it is an implosion and not an explosion. am i right???
edwin
Charles Spalton
okoth wrote in message <01bd3bc1$0f1c9420$1f7b47c1@ibm-stav-17>...
In their standard states, the reactants will take up more space than the
products, since liquid water is denser than gaseous hydrogen and oxygen.
However, the energy released in the reaction heats the water produced to
a temperature much higher than its boiling point, so the volume of gas
produced is much larger until the heat can dissipate. It is definitely
an explosion; if you detonate a hydrogen-oxygen mix in a balloon, it
doesn't deflate - you could try some high speed photography if you
wanted to prove this (:-O)
Charles.
--
"Reshake this cocktail, Peason, and don't drown the gin!"
Michael Richmann
"okoth" <sta...@login.eunet.no> wrote:
>hei
>a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen is highly combustible, we all know that,
>but is this an explosion or an implosion?
>i mean do the products take up more volume than the reactants? in case they
>do not, i would say it is an implosion and not an explosion. am i right???
No.
--
Mike
My opinions, not Argonne's...
Alan M
okoth wrote:
>
> hei
> a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen is highly combustible, we all know that,
> but is this an explosion or an implosion?
> i mean do the products take up more volume than the reactants? in case they
> do not, i would say it is an implosion and not an explosion. am i right???
>
Hi Edwin,
The balanced equation for the reaction goes from three moles of reactant
to two moles of product. At first glance it appears to be an implosion,
but we have forgotten to account for the heat of reaction. Heat is
given off and volume is directly proportional to temperature (PV=nRT, in
the ideal case and this is far from ideal). Lets say the reactants were
at 300 Kelvins and 1 atmosphere pressure. If the temperature doubles
and the pressure remains constant, the volume doubles requiring more
than the original volume to contain the resulting vapor. 600 Kelvins is
not very hot and the temperature may triple, quadruple or more. This
makes it an explosion.
FYI - We wrap dewars in electrical tape because, when they implode,
shards of glass bounce back out as if it had exploded.
Alan
--
Alan W. Messing, Ph.D.
Associate Director Otro gallo nos cantara
Applied Marine Research Laboratory
Old Dominion University
Norfolk, VA 23529
Uncle Al
okoth wrote:
>
> hei
> a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen is highly combustible, we all know that,
> but is this an explosion or an implosion?
> i mean do the products take up more volume than the reactants? in case they
> do not, i would say it is an implosion and not an explosion. am i right???
It will explode and knock your socks off to Tierra del Fuego - massive
exotherm and low molecular weight products.
(When the Space shuttle launches and its three engines drain the
external fuel tank of immense volumes of liquid hydrogen and oxygen...
it is all a conspiracy as special video effects hide the incontroverible
fact of the thing really sucking into the ground.)
--
Uncle Al Schwartz
Uncl...@ix.netcom.com ("zero" before @)
http://pw2.netcom.com/~uncleal0/uncleal.htm
http://www.ultra.net.au/~wisby/uncleal.htm
http://www.guyy.demon.co.uk/uncleal/uncleal.htm
(Toxic URLs! Unsafe for children, Democrats, and most mammals)
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" The Net!
William R. Penrose
In article <01bd3bc1$0f1c9420$1f7b47c1@ibm-stav-17> "okoth" <sta...@login.eunet.no> writes:
>a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen is highly combustible, we all know that,
>but is this an explosion or an implosion?
>i mean do the products take up more volume than the reactants? in case they
>do not, i would say it is an implosion and not an explosion. am i right???
Two volumes of H2 and one volume of O2 yield two vols of water vapor, alright.
But plenty of heat is also produced, so the water vapor is expanded to many
times its original volume. Also, the explosion will propagate as a
supersonic shock wave that builds up the pressure to many times the static
pressure of the reaction products. You gotcherself an explosion there, buddy.
Bill
************************************************************
If you work with gases or gas instruments, call or email for
information on the Model 1010 Precision Diluter/Calibrator.
************************************************************
Bill Penrose, President, Custom Sensor Solutions, Inc.
526 West Franklin Avenue, Naperville IL 60540, USA
630-548-3548, fax 630-369-9618, email wpen...@interaccess.com
************************************************************
Purveyors of contract R&D and product development to this
and nearby galaxies.
************************************************************
William R. Penrose
>(When the Space shuttle launches and its three engines drain the
>external fuel tank of immense volumes of liquid hydrogen and oxygen...
>it is all a conspiracy as special video effects hide the incontroverible
>fact of the thing really sucking into the ground.)
Like that silly panorama of the mars surface that they published in Science a
few weeks ago. Anybody who's every been to the Red Rock country around
Sedona, AZ, would recognize it right away. We've been had. Space science is
still back at the Vanguard. Yup.
Bill (but then there weren't any of the Sedona UFO's in the picture)
Mark Cervi
nob...@nowhere.com (john doe) wrote:
>On 17 Feb 1998 15:31:55 GMT, "okoth" <sta...@login.eunet.no> wrote:
>
>>hei
>>a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen is highly combustible, we all know that,
>>but is this an explosion or an implosion?
>>i mean do the products take up more volume than the reactants? in case they
>>do not, i would say it is an implosion and not an explosion. am i right???
>>
>>edwin
>
>PV=nRT
>
>You are perhaps missing the T part of the equation. The reaction is
>exothermic. After things cool down, yes, the final volume would be
>smaller, especially after condensation. But assuming constant pressure
>in a closed system, the heat released from the reaction makes it an
>explosion.
This question again. Taking 1/3 O2 and 2/3 H2, solving for adiabatic
temp at constant volume using NASA CET93 program gives 3504 K and 9.56
atm.
Predicted products are
.554 H2O
.049 O2
.158 H2
.127 OH
.076 H
.035 O
W. R. Smith
Mark Cervi wrote:
> nob...@nowhere.com (john doe) wrote:
>
> >On 17 Feb 1998 15:31:55 GMT, "okoth" <sta...@login.eunet.no> wrote:
> >
> >>hei
> >>a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen is highly combustible, we all know that,
> >>but is this an explosion or an implosion?
> >>i mean do the products take up more volume than the reactants? in case they
> >>do not, i would say it is an implosion and not an explosion. am i right???
>
> This question again. Taking 1/3 O2 and 2/3 H2, solving for adiabatic
> temp at constant volume using NASA CET93 program gives 3504 K and 9.56
> atm.
But is this the right question? At constant P of 1 atm., starting from 25C,
EQS4WIN gives an adiabatic flame T of 3077K. 1 mole feed (V=.024465 m^3) gives
V=0.20436 m^3 at 3077K, so I'd say this is an explosion. The free downloadable
EQS4WIN Lite version (BTW Win, not DOS!) can be used for this problem (URL
below). Its limitation to 5 species (neglecting O) produces an approximate
result of 3124K.
-- W. R. Smith, PhD, P. Eng., Senior Scientist, Mathtrek Systems --
EMail(replace "_at_" by "@", "_dot_" by "."): support_at_mathtrek_dot_com
--------------------- http://www.mathtrek.com ---------------------
-Mathtrek Systems - Home of EQS4WIN Chemical Equilibrium Software -
Beavis aka Cornholio
It is an explosion followed by an implosion when the temp drops.
--
Beavis
misspellings are for your amusment only.
Remove the anti spam* from e-mail address to respond
W. R. Smith <no_spam...@aol.com> wrote in article
<34F416EE...@aol.com>...
David B. Green
Uh...I think it is water expands to 1600 times its volume when converted to steam! Hey.. maybe
one could make and engine!
-david
William R. Penrose wrote:
> In article <01bd3bc1$0f1c9420$1f7b47c1@ibm-stav-17> "okoth" <sta...@login.eunet.no> writes:
>
> >a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen is highly combustible, we all know that,
> >but is this an explosion or an implosion?
> >i mean do the products take up more volume than the reactants? in case they
> >do not, i would say it is an implosion and not an explosion. am i right???
>
> Two volumes of H2 and one volume of O2 yield two vols of water vapor, alright.
> But plenty of heat is also produced, so the water vapor is expanded to many
> times its original volume. Also, the explosion will propagate as a
> supersonic shock wave that builds up the pressure to many times the static
> pressure of the reaction products. You gotcherself an explosion there, buddy.
>
> Bill
>
> ************************************************************
> If you work with gases or gas instruments, call or email for
> information on the Model 1010 Precision Diluter/Calibrator.
> ************************************************************
> Bill Penrose, President, Custom Sensor Solutions, Inc.
> 526 West Franklin Avenue, Naperville IL 60540, USA
> 630-548-3548, fax 630-369-9618, email wpen...@interaccess.com
> ************************************************************
> Purveyors of contract R&D and product development to this
> and nearby galaxies.
> ************************************************************
--
David B. Green
Barclay Laboratory
916-244-4460
FAX 916-244-2924