Breathing Anti-freeze dangerous?

[Wayne Fiori]

Safer than the gasoline in the car. You should be able to drink antifreeze
without any serious effects. Relax

[GrahamM]

Is breathing anti-freeze fumes dangerous?

My car has a leak in the heater core, thus the hot air smells like
anti-freeze. Can it stay like this for long with no ill effects?

Thanks in advance...

Matt Graham
m...@druhi.att.com

[Dale Southard]

In article <82...@drutx.ATT.COM> m...@druhi.ATT.COM (GrahamM) writes:
>Is breathing anti-freeze fumes dangerous?
>
>My car has a leak in the heater core, thus the hot air smells like
>anti-freeze. Can it stay like this for long with no ill effects?
>

How much do you drink??

The major anti-freeze component is ethylene glycol HOCH2-CH2OH. When introduced
into the human body, it is a substrate analog of ethanol and will be acted on
by the alchohol dehydrogenase (ADH) enzyme, which will convert it to HO2C-CO2H
(oxalic adic) over a few steps. Oxalic acid is poisonous.

But, if you drink lots of alcohol, a competitive inhibition "race" is started
between the ethylene glycol --> oxalic acid and the ethanol --> acetaldehyde
reactions, giving your body more time to purge the oxalic acid.

This is simular to the mechanism for methanol poinsoning (but the end product
is formaldehyde).

Note: I am an organic chemist -- any biochem types out there feel free to
add to/correct the above statements.

Oh, I would doubt that you are getting enough ethylene glycol to be dangerous,
but if you are getting hangovers after driving for a while, I would become
concerned. (Not to mention that anti-freeze hasn't been cheap since the
ethylene glycol plant blew up, but that is another story).

--> --> Dale UVa (ds...@virginia.edu)

[ri...@popvax.uucp]

In article <14...@darkstar.ucsc.edu> fi...@ziggy.UCSC.edu (Wayne Fiori) writes:
>Safer than the gasoline in the car. You should be able to drink antifreeze
>without any serious effects. Relax

Ethylene Glycol poisoning can be lethal. I would consider death a serious
effect. Some people do think the treatment is fun, though, since it
consists of being given intravenous alcohol.

David Rind
ri...@popvax.harvard.edu

[Rich Wales]

Some companies are marketing propylene glycol as an alternative coolant
and antifreeze.

Propylene glycol is supposedly almost as good as ethylene glycol for
automotive purposes. As I recall, it's slightly better as a coolant,
but not quite as good as an antifreeze; but the difference shouldn't
matter except in the most extreme of climates.

Unlike ethylene glycol, which is deathly poisonous, propylene glycol is
non-toxic. I understand it's actually used in certain food items. Of
course, a propylene-glycol-based antifreeze would probably have various
additives (rust inhibitors, etc.), so I wouldn't go out and quaff large
quantities of the stuff.

Also, propylene glycol does not have ethylene glycol's sweet smell. I
have never tried drinking it, so I can't tell you if it's sweet-tasting.
Presumably, the lack of an odor -- together with its non-toxicity --
would make propylene glycol much less of an "attractive nuisance" to
dogs and cats who might come across a radiator leak or the aftermath of
a sloppy radiator flush-and-refill.

--
Rich Wales <wa...@CS.UCLA.EDU> // UCLA Computer Science Department
3531 Boelter Hall // Los Angeles, CA 90024-1596 // +1 (213) 825-5683

[necro...@maple.circa.ufl.edu]

In article <64...@husc6.harvard.edu>, ri...@popvax.uucp (747...@d.rind) writes:
>Ethylene Glycol poisoning can be lethal. I would consider death a serious
>effect. Some people do think the treatment is fun, though, since it
>consists of being given intravenous alcohol.

Oh so very true. Ethylene Glycol can be lethal in as little as 1/2 an
ounce. As I believe it has already been stated, the breakdown product is very
poisonous. I would not take to drinking it. Although, I would like to know
what it feels like to get intravenously drunk. :)

-Oz

[JOSEPH T CHEW]

>You should be able to drink antifreeze without any serious effects. Relax

Sorry; rigor mortis is incompatible with relaxation. Antifreeze isn't
cyanide, but it isn't Gatorade either. Don't drink it, don't let animals
drink it, wear safety glasses, wash it off your skin, and don't put it in
a plastic bag and sniff it as though it were airplane glue. Here are the
gory details.

There are three routes of exposure: ingestion, inhalation, and skin contact.

According to the references readily at hand (the 1984 NIOSH Registry of
Toxic Effects of Chemical Substances, the U.S. Coast Guard CHRIS handbook
Chemical Hazards, and the Material Safety Data Sheet for Prestone put out
by Union Carbide of Canada), ethylene glycol, the major ingredient in
antifreeze, is a Class 2 toxin by oral ingestion. Class 2 means "slightly
toxic." Acute toxicity has been observed at levels as low as roughly
710 milligrams per kilogram of body weight in humans. The LD50 in small
lab animals is on the order of a few grams per kilogram.

It can cause narcosis, dizziness, nausea, and headache upon excessive
inhalation; and brain, kidney, and liver damage; inebriation; and coma
or death upon ingestion, depending on intake. Through contact it is
only an irritant. As of the mid-80s it was not considered a human
carcinogen or teratogen.

At first, 710 mg/kg seems like a lot. HOWEVER, these references hint that
at levels well below acute systemic toxicity, and/or after delays, there
could be brain, kidney, and liver damage. No quantitative information was
available.

Via inhalation, the Threshold Limit Value (ceiling never to be exceeded in
industrial exposure lest the regulators getcha) is 50 ppm vapor in air or
10 mg per cubic meter particulate in air. Since the original poster wanted
to know if a persistent antifreeze stink in his car would be bad for him,
the answer is "kinda" (it's a red flashing warning about the health of
the car as well...)

Ethylene glycol is rated as a mild primary skin irritant and a moderate
eye irritant. This jibes with personal experience; it's never irritated
my skin but I take precautions to keep it out of my eyes.

Animals are at risk. It supposedly tastes good to animals, and they just
lap it up. They have a lot fewer kg to absorb each mg than you do.
Bye-bye, Fido. Hose down your antifreeze spills.

Here are the emergency first aid procedures from the MSDS. (Any company
will be glad to give you an MSDS upon request these days.) Skin and
eye contact: flush with water. If swallowed, induce vomiting at once;
give one or two glasses of warm water, milk, or salt water. Keep
victim warm and call physician immediately.

Testimonial to the lawyer glut: The above was performed as a nonsponsored
coffee-break public service and does not necessarily represent the official
position of anybody. All claims are disclaimed, in hoc signo vinces,
e Unibus plurum, and other express or implied attorneyspeak hereintofore.

--Joe
"Just another personal opinion from the People's Republic of Berkeley"

[Doug Fierro]

In article <82...@drutx.ATT.COM> m...@druhi.ATT.COM (GrahamM) writes:

>Is breathing anti-freeze fumes dangerous?
>

I think a side effect is that it causes your grammar to deteriorate :)

Doug
--
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Doug Fierro
<<The only guarantee in life is that you will die>> fie...@uts.amdahl.com
UNIX division
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

[Mike Whitbeck]

In article <82...@drutx.ATT.COM> m...@druhi.ATT.COM (GrahamM) writes:

According to the 6th ed of SAX

ethylene glycol (aka 1,2-ethanediol) has a TLV of 100 parts per
million and is " Very tox[ic] in particulate form upon
inhal[ation]."

___________________________________________________________
|Mike Whitbeck | whit...@unssun.unr.edu |
|Desert Research Inst. | whit...@wheeler.wrc.unr.edu |
|POB 60220 | whit...@sanjuan.UUCP |

[|mehcana| (undersampled)]

In article <1991Apr22.1...@cs.ucla.edu> wa...@CS.UCLA.EDU (Rich Wales) writes:
>Some companies are marketing propylene glycol as an alternative coolant
>and antifreeze.
>
>

>Unlike ethylene glycol, which is deathly poisonous, propylene glycol is
>non-toxic. I understand it's actually used in certain food items. Of
>

I use the stuff in my motor home's drinking water system
as an anti-freeze. You're supposed to flush it out, which
I do, but the bottle says to flush until the color is not
visible (non-fluorescent pink) at which point I'm sure there
is plenty of residual glycol. Non-toxic, and cheaper than
ethylene glycol.

[Larry Lippman]

In article <1991Apr22.1...@cs.ucla.edu> wa...@CS.UCLA.EDU (Rich Wales) writes:

>Some companies are marketing propylene glycol as an alternative coolant
>and antifreeze.

>...

>Unlike ethylene glycol, which is deathly poisonous, propylene glycol is
>non-toxic.

I would say that propylene glycol is "relatively" non-toxic when
compared to say, ethylene glycol. The oral LD50 for propylene glycol is
probably ten times that of ethylene glycol. One of the metabolic products
of propylene glycol is lactic acid. It does not require too much imagination
to realize that an excess of lactic acid produced by ingestion of quantities
of propylene glycol is not without harmful effects.

>I understand it's actually used in certain food items.

In *small* quantities, though. Propylene glycol is commonly used
in soft drinks to facilitate the stable solution of flavoring ingredients.

>Also, propylene glycol does not have ethylene glycol's sweet smell. I
>have never tried drinking it, so I can't tell you if it's sweet-tasting.

Propylene glycol has virtually no odor or taste for most people.

Larry Lippman @ Recognition Research Corp. "Have you hugged your cat today?"
VOICE: 716/688-1231 {boulder, rutgers, watmath}!ub!kitty!larry
FAX: 716/741-9635 [note: ub=acsu.buffalo.edu] uunet!/ \aerion!larry

[simp...@gmail.com]

My grandson has been breathing fumes antifreeze fumes from heat core damage in jeep. My eyes would burn and it hurt my throat but I could not make my son or daughter in law believe it was injuring their son. He will soon be 6 and they finally believe he has problems without admitting it is from antifreeze. He can get uncontrollable in an instant without provocation. They think it is adhd. I think it goes further than than. where can I get more information. Pat (simp...@gmail.com)

[dlzc]

Dear simp...@gmail.com:

On Sunday, January 31, 2016 at 11:51:59 PM UTC-7, simp...@gmail.com wrote:
...

> My grandson has been breathing fumes antifreeze
> fumes from heat core damage in jeep. My eyes
> would burn and it hurt my throat but I could not
> make my son or daughter in law believe it was
> injuring their son. He will soon be 6 and they
> finally believe he has problems without admitting
> it is from antifreeze.

They are very smart. There have been no environmental causes found to explain ADHD.

> He can get uncontrollable in an instant without
> provocation. They think it is adhd. I think it

> goes further than [that].

Grandparents know everything, don't they?

> where can I get more information. Pat

> (simply***@gmail.com)

Ethylene glycol is made in large part by reacting a chemical used to sterilize medical goods (ethylene oxide gas, deadly poison), with glycerine. It is therefore cheap and toxic.

Marine antifreeze (propylene glycol) is more expensive, has different effects on elastomers, and is used in foodstuffs for consumption. You cannot always just switch over, and obviously fixing the coolant leak would be preferable.

http://healingtouch.areavoices.com/2013/02/27/a-deeper-connection-constipation-miralax-and-adhd/

You really should not hook into a 24-year-old thread, and expect too much attention. Best to start your own.

David A. Smith

[Frank]

Looking over a current Aldrich SDS, it appears the toxicity of ethylene
glycol is overstated. I see the DOT classification is for an
environmental hazard but the main hazard would be dogs licking up
spills. Toxicity is such that according to original HAZCOM standard it
would not even be considered toxic. Also contact with food is OK.

I get that antifreeze smell from a leaking head gasket but do not think
it is EG because of the sweet smell, so it must be a decomposition product.

Don't confuse the non-chemist with the toxicity of ethylene oxide. EG
is the hydrolyzed product and can also be prepared directly from ethylene.

[20...@nclusd.org]

Actually I was in the school and antifreeze was spilling everywhere and I had an asthma attack

[jdmil...@gmail.com]

But can breathing it kill you? I was outside applying coolant to an overheated car,though the coolant compartment had a leak so I applied it under the radiator cap.when I took the radiator cap off it was very hot. I held my breath and used a glove tk protect myself from the heat,but in the process of it spraying everywhere I moved away and took a breath. Shortly after I had a mild headache,thus happened 3 days ago. Am I going to die?

[jdmil...@gmail.com]

But can breathing a small amount kill you? I was changing the coolant on an overheated car and the coolant compartment have a leak. So I continued to grab a glove to protect my hand from the heat of the radiator cap and unscrewed the cap. It released a major amount of pressure and Vapor in the air I stepped away. Though during the process I held my breath, but stepped away to finish letting the pressure out. But yeah I believe I inhaled a small amount in the process because shortly after I had a mild headache. So to the original question... am I going to die?

[Peter Fairbrother]

Yes, you are going to die. We all do. But it is unlikely that breathing
a small amount of ethylene glycol spray will kill you.

If you think you inhaled more than half an ounce of liquid, or if you
are feeling drunk, weird, depressed, get advice and/or treatment RIGHT
THE FUCK NOW.

It can take a few days to kill you.


However that is a whole lot to inhale. Deaths from inhalation of spray
in these circumstances are almost non-existent, as people cough etc.

A lungful of vapour won't kill you [1], it's the spray which counts.


One antidote for minor levels of poisoning, if you are stock in the
middle of nowhere with no support, is alcohol. Unfortunately, the
initial-24hour effects of ethylene glycol poisoning are similar to those
of alcohol. Drink lots of water too.


BTW, the correct way to ask that sort of question is to phone your local
hospital, who will either advise you themselves, or connect you to a
poisons helpline.

I strongly advise you to do that - otherwise I take no responsibility
for this posting.

Plus, any other advice in it is directed only to the OP, if you aren't
him, and in his exact situation, it will not apply to you.


- Peter Fairbrother

[1] well it can, in extremely rare circumstances, but you'd already be
dead. it's onions! [2]

[2] one of the nerve gases, I forget which, is said to smell like onions
in certain concentrations. Unfortunately, those concentrations are
sufficient to kill in seconds, So, how do we know what it smells like?

I don't know, but imagining: someone opens bottle, takes a sniff, cries
"Onions!", falls down dead ..

[Frank]

On 7/19/2016 12:19 PM, Peter Fairbrother wrote:

> On 19/07/16 16:53, Peter Fairbrother wrote:
>> On 19/07/16 01:50, jdmil...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> But can breathing a small amount kill you? I was changing the coolant
>>> on an overheated car and the coolant compartment have a leak. So I
>>> continued to grab a glove to protect my hand from the heat of the
>>> radiator cap and unscrewed the cap. It released a major amount of
>>> pressure and Vapor in the air I stepped away. Though during the
>>> process I held my breath, but stepped away to finish letting the
>>> pressure out. But yeah I believe I inhaled a small amount in the
>>> process because shortly after I had a mild headache. So to the
>>> original question... am I going to die?
>>>
>>
>> Yes, you are going to die. We all do. But it is unlikely that breathing
>> a small amount of ethylene glycol spray will kill you.
>>
>> If you think you inhaled more than half an ounce of liquid, or if you
>> are feeling drunk, weird, depressed, get advice and/or treatment RIGHT
>> THE FUCK NOW.
>>
>> It can take a few days to kill you.
>>
>>
>> However that is a whole lot to inhale. Deaths from inhalation of spray
>> in these circumstances are almost non-existent, as people cough etc.
>>
>> A lungful of vapour won't kill you [1], it's the spray which counts.
>>
>>
>> One antidote for minor levels of poisoning, if you are stock in the
>> middle of nowhere with no support, is alcohol. Unfortunately, the
>> initial-24hour effects of ethylene glycol poisoning are similar to those
>> of alcohol. Drink lots of water too.
>

> Note especially - the drinking lots of water is for inhaled ethylene
> glycol, after 12+ hours, and not for swallowed ethylene glycol!!!
>
>
Lot of info out there on ethylene glycol toxicity. This is probably as
good as any:

http://des.nh.gov/organization/commissioner/pip/factsheets/ard/documents/ard-ehp-12.pdf

OSHA standards would make it practically non-toxic but its sweet taste
can cause accidental consumption. Current GHS SDS standards make it
appear more toxic than it actually is:

http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/MSDS/MSDS/DisplayMSDSPage.do?country=US&language=en&productNumber=324558&brand=SIAL&PageToGoToURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sigmaaldrich.com%2Fcatalog%2Fproduct%2Fsial%2F324558%3Flang%3Den

[mrsb...@gmail.com]

What a stupid thing to say!

[sugard...@gmail.com]

I've been breathing anti freeze for two weeks because my Denali has some sort of leak. I became violently ill and vomiting. Stomach pain tiredness diarrhea. I felt like I was dying !! 😓

[schur...@gmail.com]

On Saturday, April 20, 1991 at 8:23:19 PM UTC-7, Wayne Fiori wrote:
> Safer than the gasoline in the car. You should be able to drink antifreeze
> without any serious effects. Relax

no, no no don't drink anti freeze! It can kill you!

[Libor 'Poutnik' Stříž]

Dne 21/10/2017 v 04:08 schur...@gmail.com napsal(a):

Someone may consider a warning after 26 years rather late..


--
Poutnik ( The Pilgrim, Der Wanderer )

A wise man guards words he says,
as they say about him more,
than he says about the subject.

[jo...@goodone.lt]

On Friday, 22 September 2017 20:29:13 UTC+3, sugard...@gmail.com wrote:
> I've been breathing anti freeze for two weeks because my Denali has some sort of leak. I became violently ill and vomiting. Stomach pain tiredness diarrhea. I felt like I was dying !! 😓

What did you do to get well? I feel like i'm having the same problem..

[donth...@gmail.com]

On Saturday, 20 April 1991 23:23:19 UTC-4, Wayne Fiori wrote:
> Safer than the gasoline in the car. You should be able to drink antifreeze
> without any serious effects. Relax

That's WRONG. Please remove this post before you get someone killed. You should NEVER drink antifreeze. It is poisonous and even a small dose can prove lethal.

[grabe...@gmail.com]

My 96 Dodge Ram heater core has been lightly spraying the inside of my windows with a light smog herb antifreeze is this harmful to my health over a. Of a one winter

[grabe...@gmail.com]

My 96 Dodge Ram heater core has small pin holes in it I can smell it it's on my windows how harmful is this to me over one winter

[dleo....@gmail.com]

Nearly passed out driving back from a long drive at work in 96 Dodge ram 2500 dually with a heater core leak. Quit a few days later after company refused to let repair shop fix it, because of costs. Employer denied unemployment benefits for quiting without good cause. So according to the Missouri department of labor, it is not dangerous or a hazard to our health, but what the hell does a pencil pusher know!

[vjp...@at.biostrategist.dot.dot.com]

I think it competes with hemoglobin for oxygen.

I seem to recall ethylene glycol is used as a blood substitute in vitro.


- = -
Vasos Panagiotopoulos, Columbia'81+, Reagan, Mozart, Pindus
blog: panix.com/~vjp2/ruminatn.htm - = - web: panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm
facebook.com/vasjpan2 - linkedin.com/in/vasjpan02 - biostrategist.com
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---