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April 1 post Re: I am now a Creationist
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pnyikos
Apr 3, 2012, 2:52:47 PM4/3/12
to nyi...@bellsouth.net
On Apr 1, 8:11 pm, Arkalen <arka...@inbox.com> wrote:
> (2012/04/02 7:13), Boikat wrote:
> > On Apr 1, 4:57 pm, Syamsu<nando_rontel...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> On Apr 1, 11:17 pm, Boikat<boi...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> >>> On Apr 1, 3:58 pm, wiki trix<wikit...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>> On Apr 1, 1:22 pm, Syamsu<nando_rontel...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>> On Apr 1, 5:23 pm, *Hemidactylus*<ecpho...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>>> A had an epiphany this morning. Sunday is an apt day for an epiphany.
And April 1 is an apt day for starting threads like this one.
Especially when it is done by such a well-known talk.origins regular
as Hemidactylus. Nobody who is familiar with his usual output should
have been fooled for even a nanosecond, but there may be a number of
less well informed regulars who were fooled.
Maybe Harry K or Klueskes & Moos were fooled -- or maybe they just
played along with the April 1 theme.
> >>>>>> I realized that all we see around us (stars, maple trees, puppy
> >>>>>> dogs, and cloud formations)
Speaking of the last category, here is a lovely picture of two cloud
formations, one showing an ichthyosaur leaping out of the water,
another a plesiosaur looking at it intently.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/shortcuts/gallery/2012/apr/01/finding-shapes-in-clouds
The caption says it is a dolphin, and the lack of long jaws seems to
support that, but on the other hand, the "flukes" seem to be vertical
in a very un-cetacean way.
> >>>>>>could not have arisen by billions of years of blind
> >>>>>> chance. There must be an inner cog that drives this system.
>
> >>>>>> I hereby disavow Dawkens, Denet, And Myrers and pledge my allegiance to
> >>>>>> intelligent design wherever it may be lurking. Being an atheist is no
> >>>>>> fun. I want to attend church barbecues and give away a percentage of my
> >>>>>> income to God.
[snip]
> >> Boikat argues there is no
> >> freedom in the entire universe,
>
> > No, just not the kind of "freedom" you blather about.
>
> >> except for people,
>
> > Or anything else with a sufficiently advanced brain.
>
> >> of which he is one.
>
> > You make it sound like being a person is a bad thing.
>
> > Boikat
>
> It should be noted that people don't have *more* freedom than a rock in
> the "deciding to go one way or the other" sense - if thrown in similar
> conditions they'll follow similar ballistic trajectories,
Fortunately, we are not the helpless plaything of some hypothetical
thrower.
> What people and things with advanced brains have, is more *behaviors*
> than rocks. And with complex, varied behaviors comes a measure of
> freedom, because it multiplies the number of outcomes a given event
> could have (to a certain level of resolution; if you get to the point
> where you have to pick between determinism or quantum randomness there's
> not much conscious choice being made).
I wouldn't be so sure of that. Don't forget about the butterfly
effect.
No, I don't think our brains work the same way as weather fronts, but
there may be a way to coordinate lots of quantum fluctuations
simultaneously.
Peter Nyikos
> (2012/04/02 7:13), Boikat wrote:
> > On Apr 1, 4:57 pm, Syamsu<nando_rontel...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> On Apr 1, 11:17 pm, Boikat<boi...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> >>> On Apr 1, 3:58 pm, wiki trix<wikit...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>> On Apr 1, 1:22 pm, Syamsu<nando_rontel...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>> On Apr 1, 5:23 pm, *Hemidactylus*<ecpho...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>>> A had an epiphany this morning. Sunday is an apt day for an epiphany.
And April 1 is an apt day for starting threads like this one.
Especially when it is done by such a well-known talk.origins regular
as Hemidactylus. Nobody who is familiar with his usual output should
have been fooled for even a nanosecond, but there may be a number of
less well informed regulars who were fooled.
Maybe Harry K or Klueskes & Moos were fooled -- or maybe they just
played along with the April 1 theme.
> >>>>>> I realized that all we see around us (stars, maple trees, puppy
> >>>>>> dogs, and cloud formations)
Speaking of the last category, here is a lovely picture of two cloud
formations, one showing an ichthyosaur leaping out of the water,
another a plesiosaur looking at it intently.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/shortcuts/gallery/2012/apr/01/finding-shapes-in-clouds
The caption says it is a dolphin, and the lack of long jaws seems to
support that, but on the other hand, the "flukes" seem to be vertical
in a very un-cetacean way.
> >>>>>>could not have arisen by billions of years of blind
> >>>>>> chance. There must be an inner cog that drives this system.
>
> >>>>>> I hereby disavow Dawkens, Denet, And Myrers and pledge my allegiance to
> >>>>>> intelligent design wherever it may be lurking. Being an atheist is no
> >>>>>> fun. I want to attend church barbecues and give away a percentage of my
> >>>>>> income to God.
[snip]
> >> Boikat argues there is no
> >> freedom in the entire universe,
>
> > No, just not the kind of "freedom" you blather about.
>
> >> except for people,
>
> > Or anything else with a sufficiently advanced brain.
>
> >> of which he is one.
>
> > You make it sound like being a person is a bad thing.
>
> > Boikat
>
> It should be noted that people don't have *more* freedom than a rock in
> the "deciding to go one way or the other" sense - if thrown in similar
> conditions they'll follow similar ballistic trajectories,
Fortunately, we are not the helpless plaything of some hypothetical
thrower.
> What people and things with advanced brains have, is more *behaviors*
> than rocks. And with complex, varied behaviors comes a measure of
> freedom, because it multiplies the number of outcomes a given event
> could have (to a certain level of resolution; if you get to the point
> where you have to pick between determinism or quantum randomness there's
> not much conscious choice being made).
I wouldn't be so sure of that. Don't forget about the butterfly
effect.
No, I don't think our brains work the same way as weather fronts, but
there may be a way to coordinate lots of quantum fluctuations
simultaneously.
Peter Nyikos
pnyikos
Apr 4, 2012, 11:31:52 AM4/4/12
to nyi...@bellsouth.net
In case anyone is wondering why I crossposted this to
sci.bio.paleontology...
We have a prolific crank here who calls himself "Wretch Fossil" [is
that self-deprecating humor, or what?] and whose posts outnumber all
others combined, including more coventional spam. His hobbyhorse is
lunar and Martian meteorite samples in which he sees fossils of blood,
neurons, etc.
He really outdid even himself today, and posted what he claimed was a
shadow of Neil Armstrong in a lunar thin sample. This gave me the
opportunity to call his attention to the post of mine to which I am
following up [text deleted] because it refers to the following cloud
picture:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/shortcuts/gallery/2012/apr/01/finding-shapes-in-clouds
Here is what I told him:
[excerpt]
As for the lunar vines, etc. on the little rock in the photo, your eye
is seeing patterns like one sees in clouds. See my post of yesterday,
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.bio.paleontology/msg/e5a4a55d9fd7980e
for a link to a cloud picture featuring an ichthyosaur and a long-
necked plesiosaur craning its neck to watch the ichthyosaur leaping
out of the water and carrying a lot of the water along with it. Note
that the plesiosaur is itself rising out of the water, which is
flowing copiously down its side.
============ end of excerpt
from http://groups.google.com/group/sci.bio.paleontology/msg/34032c6a87b01b36
He'll probably hang around for a lot more time to come, so I will have
occasion to refer to this cloud picture many times.
Peter Nyikos
sci.bio.paleontology...
We have a prolific crank here who calls himself "Wretch Fossil" [is
that self-deprecating humor, or what?] and whose posts outnumber all
others combined, including more coventional spam. His hobbyhorse is
lunar and Martian meteorite samples in which he sees fossils of blood,
neurons, etc.
He really outdid even himself today, and posted what he claimed was a
shadow of Neil Armstrong in a lunar thin sample. This gave me the
opportunity to call his attention to the post of mine to which I am
following up [text deleted] because it refers to the following cloud
picture:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/shortcuts/gallery/2012/apr/01/finding-shapes-in-clouds
Here is what I told him:
[excerpt]
As for the lunar vines, etc. on the little rock in the photo, your eye
is seeing patterns like one sees in clouds. See my post of yesterday,
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.bio.paleontology/msg/e5a4a55d9fd7980e
for a link to a cloud picture featuring an ichthyosaur and a long-
necked plesiosaur craning its neck to watch the ichthyosaur leaping
out of the water and carrying a lot of the water along with it. Note
that the plesiosaur is itself rising out of the water, which is
flowing copiously down its side.
============ end of excerpt
from http://groups.google.com/group/sci.bio.paleontology/msg/34032c6a87b01b36
He'll probably hang around for a lot more time to come, so I will have
occasion to refer to this cloud picture many times.
Peter Nyikos
John Harshman
Apr 4, 2012, 12:43:47 PM4/4/12
to
pnyikos wrote:
> In case anyone is wondering why I crossposted this to
> sci.bio.paleontology...
In case anyone is wondering why I responded to this:
> In case anyone is wondering why I crossposted this to
> sci.bio.paleontology...
Your self-importance continues to rankle. "Rankle" is an interesting
word that I don't get to use a lot. Sounds like fun. Rankle rankle rankle.
Boikat
Apr 4, 2012, 1:17:23 PM4/4/12
to
On Apr 4, 10:31 am, pnyikos <nyik...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> In case anyone is wondering why I crossposted this to
> sci.bio.paleontology...
>
> We have a prolific crank here who calls himself "Wretch Fossil" [is
> that self-deprecating humor, or what?] and whose posts outnumber all
> others combined, including more coventional spam. His hobbyhorse is
> lunar and Martian meteorite samples in which he sees fossils of blood,
> neurons, etc.
<snip>
> In case anyone is wondering why I crossposted this to
> sci.bio.paleontology...
>
> We have a prolific crank here who calls himself "Wretch Fossil" [is
> that self-deprecating humor, or what?] and whose posts outnumber all
> others combined, including more coventional spam. His hobbyhorse is
> lunar and Martian meteorite samples in which he sees fossils of blood,
> neurons, etc.
Isn't that Ed "man is as old as coal" Conrad, or one of his sock
puppets?
Boikat
pnyikos
Apr 4, 2012, 1:34:00 PM4/4/12
to nyi...@bellsouth.net
He is oriental, and claims to follow a religion in which God the
Father, creator of the universe, was a Chinese person who died a
couple of decades ago, and now God is someone else.
He also thinks the universe is much older than the < 15 billion years
now ascribed to it. Dunno what God the Father was supposed to be
doing before the Chinese person was born.
I'm not sure I got the details of his religion *completely* right, so
he may even be ticked off if I didn't, but I've certainly given the
general flavor of it.
Harshman thought it was self-important of me to talk about him the way
I did, but I think it is worthwhile to let people here know what
they'd be up against in s.b.p.
Fortunately, Wretch Fossil leaves threads discussing serious
paleontology alone, and so you could post to that newsgroup all you
want without ever having to deal with him. In that respect, he is
just like an ordinary spammer.
Peter Nyikos
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