Is this virus unique in causing infertility in cats?
plutonium....@gmail.com
know.
Some of them had these symptoms:
(1) discharge from the eye
(2) drastic change of behaviour
(3) no longer hungry with appetite
(4) third year without being pregnant
(5) wobbly gait
(6) worst case was a coughing up of white material and then a few days
later with
labored-breathing
I was looking for through the literature of cat viruses to see if any
one of them has
a trademark symptom of making a female infertile.
It appears as though FIP, feline infectious Peritonitis, a viral
infection leads to
infertile females.
Is it the only cat virus that leads to infertility? Is so, does anyone
know how it makes
a cat infertile? Is it a permanent infertility?
plutonium....@gmail.com
Archimedes Plutonium
www.iw.net/~a_plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom
where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies
plutonium....@gmail.com
plutonium.archime...@gmail.com wrote:
> Recently I came across an interesting question relating several cats I
> know.
>
> Some of them had these symptoms:
> (1) discharge from the eye
> (2) drastic change of behaviour
> (3) no longer hungry with appetite
> (4) third year without being pregnant
> (5) wobbly gait
> (6) worst case was a coughing up of white material and then a few days
> later with
> labored-breathing
>
> I was looking for through the literature of cat viruses to see if any
> one of them has
> a trademark symptom of making a female infertile.
>
> It appears as though FIP, feline infectious Peritonitis, a viral
> infection leads to
> infertile females.
>
> Is it the only cat virus that leads to infertility? Is so, does anyone
> know how it makes
> a cat infertile? Is it a permanent infertility?
>
Saw something today of my alpha female cat I did not like. First I
thought she was heaving
to throw out a hairball. But closer she was sort of like sneezing,
only alot of white mucuous
was coming out of her nostrils. She quickly ate it up.
It reminded me of her brother who I had to put to sleep since he could
no longer eat with the
white mucuous every time he tried to eat and then he developed labored
breathing.
So is the female following the same pattern as her brother? Is it a
virus such as Peritonitis?
Or do some cats just catch a cold like humans and their nostrils exude
mucuous?
I do not know. The volume she was exuding seemed awfully large to be a
"cat cold".
Anyone offering some ideas?
The other cats seem to stay away from her, especially the tomcats. Is
it possible that cats
can sense when one of their kind is "sick".
plutonium....@gmail.com
and started to convulse. Convulse white
mucous from both mouth and nostrils. She heaved twice and threw up all
she had eaten coated in some
mucuous and continued to sneeze out mucuous from her nostrils.
I am afraid she follows her brother where he could no longer eat and
was thin as rail and started to have
labored-breathing. Then I put him to sleep.
Is it Peritonitis?
b...@cs.tornto.no-uce.edu
<plutonium....@gmail.com> wrote:
>Horrible spectacle today. My female cat ate a few chunks of wet food
>and started to convulse. Convulse white
>mucous from both mouth and nostrils. She heaved twice and threw up all
>she had eaten coated in some
>mucuous and continued to sneeze out mucuous from her nostrils.
>
>I am afraid she follows her brother where he could no longer eat and
>was thin as rail and started to have
>labored-breathing. Then I put him to sleep.
>
>Is it Peritonitis?
Probably pneumonitis, a disease for which there has been an effective
vaccine for decades.
Why don't you get your cats vaccinated instead of amusing yourself
theorizing and posting to usenet while you watch them suffer and die?
plutonium....@gmail.com
b...@cs.tornto.no-uce.edu wrote:
>
> Probably pneumonitis, a disease for which there has been an effective
> vaccine for decades.
>
> Why don't you get your cats vaccinated instead of amusing yourself
> theorizing and posting to usenet while you watch them suffer and die?
Probably this
--- quoting ---
Feline chlamydiosis (also known as feline pneumonitis) is a relatively
mild, chronic upper respiratory disease caused by the bacterium
Chlamydia psittaci.
--- end quoting ---
Will try to get a hold of the antibiotic.
plutonium....@gmail.com
vomited.
Today she vomited and made a scream I never heard a cat make.
Her brother had the same affliction, only his went to a worse stage of
labored-breathing.
I did feed them very well. Gave them both wet and dry food. Gave them
cheese
and salami and even half&half. My favorite game I played on them was
to have
a slice of salami through the crack of the front door pretending to be
a mouse
running upwards and watching them claw it. They would claw it even as
high as
the door handle.
I put my cat to sleep today. I am not going to replace her, for I feel
that the
entire neighborhood harbors the virus. One of the neighbors used to
have about
20 cats, mostly strays living under her home. I reckon the entire
neighborhood harbors the virus and so it is bound to infect every
cat around.
I suppose keeping a cat always inside the house is the safe way, but I
want
them outside. So will not replace my cat.
I may feed some strays in the dead of winter.
plutonium....@gmail.com
I do not know if there is a panleucopenia (distemper) vaccine. What I
should have
done when I adopted the gray hair mother cat some 3 or 4
years ago, is have had her vaccinated to a broad
class of diseases and when she gave birth to 5 kittens, to have
vaccinated those
5 also.
So I have some heartache in having put to sleep 4 of those 6 cats. It
is not a mistake
I will repeat.
Heartache because if I had had it correct the first time, those 4 cats
may have had a
longer life.
plutonium....@gmail.com
I do not know why these occasions seem to be of a different plane of
reality from some
ordinary day. Death of a person or even death of one's cat. Seems as
if those days are
distinct and different from the passage of time of other days in our
lives. Maybe it is because
we consciously are made aware that our own death is soon to approach,
and how fragile
is life, and how at the wink of an eye, one is born and another wink
we are gone and dead.
I profusely cried the moment I heard my father had died and his past
seemed to flash before
my mind. I did not cry over any of the cat deaths, as well I should
not. But still, this looming
air or sensation over me, of grief, grief not only when my father died
but grief over these cats
I put to sleep.
Grief for the cats because they gave me their uncondictional love and
rested their entire life fate
into my decisions. The one I put to sleep would sometimes rub my boots
so many times that
I gave up counting once she surpassed 50 rubs. Grief that it was my
decision to cut her life
short because of her pain with distemper. Maybe she would have
overcome the distemper and
lived to 10 years of age and had litters of kittens. We will never
know.
I think what is important is that her death was quick and painless. So
that if a death is
decided that it be without pain as the moral high ground. None of
those deaths like drowning,
which I suspect is a very painful death. I suspect drowning is one of
the very most painful deaths
in that you know you need air and it will take many minutes and to
stop the heart by drowning
is very painful.
plutonium....@gmail.com
--- I wrote minutes ago ---
I think what is important is that her death was quick and painless. So
that if a death is
decided that it be without pain as the moral high ground. None of
those deaths like drowning,
which I suspect is a very painful death. I suspect drowning is one of
the very most painful deaths
in that you know you need air and it will take many minutes and to
stop the heart by drowning
is very painful.
-- end quoting ---
I am not actually sure that drowning kills by stopping the heart.
Perhaps the lack of oxygen to the brain
causes death first and which then stops the heart.
Anyone know as fact, how drowning kills?
b...@cs.toronto.no-uce.edu
<plutonium....@gmail.com> wrote:
>It was distemper. The neighbors cat had it also. The stomach lining is
>vomited.
>Today she vomited and made a scream I never heard a cat make.
There's been an effective vaccine for feline distemper since the 1930's.
For the cost of the salami and other crap you feed your cats you could
have them vaccinated against all the common infectious diseases, as well
as rabies, to protect yourself.
Any web site about looking after cats will tell you to vaccinate them if
they have any contact with other animals. Distemper and some of the
other infectious diseases commonly wipe out feral colonies. You don't
have to let animals you've taken on responsibility for suffer and die
like this.
J
> is not a mistakeI will repeat.
>
> Heartache because if I had had it correct the first time, those 4 cats
> may have had a longer life.
Adult strays should be tested first before vaccinations. Is what I was told
by my veterinarian.
Also those acqured from pet stores or individual's homes, because there's
often no way to know if the instructions on the webpage below have been
followed.
Some are carriers - survived the illness and pass it on through their bodily
fluids to others .
":Humane Societies" and "Animal Control" (in Canada) centres adopt out pets.
They have professionials isolate questionable animals and can usually tell
fairly quickly if a cat or kitten is sick and euthanize them and
aggressively clean that isolation area. Trapping them stresses them and the
sick ones "crash" quickly
http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_feline_distemper.html
If you decide you want another, you might ask the vet if an adult cat, which
has had its vaccinations every year for many years, might have enough
immunity to risk bringing it into or near your home (before the year is up).
(Ask the giver or seller for proof of innoculations - records).
I do feed a female stray who may be somewhat immune; however she's outdoors
and I regularly scrub the area with hot water and bleach; and douse same on
any fluids that I see that cannot be scrubbed and rid any areas of stools,
as well. Her third eyelids are visible and last winter she had kittens; both
seemed okay, but were sneezing and at about age 4 months, one came stumbling
down the street, following the mother, its head turned sideways at almost 90
degrees. It ate well and seemed otherwise okay. The neck problem improved
some but it disappeared within a few weeks. The other may or may not have
survived. There were 13 adults and various kittens. I think an (almost)
whole colony got wiped out probably because they "wintered" together.
J
J
> I profusely cried the moment I heard my father had died and his past
> seemed to flash before
> my mind. I did not cry over any of the cat deaths, as well I should
> not. But still, this looming
> air or sensation over me, of grief, grief not only when my father died
> but grief over these cats
> I put to sleep.
>
> Grief for the cats because they gave me their uncondictional love and
> rested their entire life fate
> into my decisions. The one I put to sleep would sometimes rub my boots
> so many times that
> I gave up counting once she surpassed 50 rubs. Grief that it was my
> decision to cut her life
> short because of her pain with distemper. Maybe she would have
> overcome the distemper and
> lived to 10 years of age and had litters of kittens. We will never
> know.
I am very sorry for your loss.
j
J
Correction: Neck/head ~ approx 45 degrees.
J
plutonium....@gmail.com
J wrote:
>
> Adult strays should be tested first before vaccinations. Is what I was told
> by my veterinarian.
> J
We have what I call a "dumping ground problem" in our community. Where
people
from surrounding areas take their unwanted cat and figure our
community is a
good site to dump their unwanted cat. Whether for financial or for
health or for
simply tired of taking care of their pet. Nearby a College has some
students
who lend to this problem.
So there is a steady flow of unwanted cats that go by. My mother cat
was all gray
and sort of a Persian long hair, who was probably sick when someone
dumped her
in our area.
I guess the big lesson to be learned in all of this is the question of
whether your
cat is going to be "indoor" or "outdoor". Vaccines are assumed to be
applied.
But vaccines will simply not keep a outdoor cat surviving longer than
an indoor
cat.
So the biggest decision on whether you have a cat or not, is whether
your cat
is going to be indoor or outdoor. If outdoor, it probably will cut the
lifespan of the
cat in half. The exposure to things outdoors is a long list of
hazards. One of the
biggest hazards is bad tomcats. I had my female spayed, and a
wandering tomcat
bite her ear off and then crippled her paw. Tomcats really beat up on
other tomcats
but they also sense when a female is spayed and will begin to beat up
on them.
So before anyone gets a cat for their home, should consider their
surrounding
environment and where the home for that cat is going to be. How much
exposure
to the outdoors. If the cat is going to be fully outdoors, it probably
will have 1/2
the lifespan of an indoor cat. And an indoor cat is very much lacking
of what I
consider a cat's life should be.
plutonium....@gmail.com
neighbors and how well you feed
the cat. Cat's have a natural curiosity and will explore.
I believe they keep a reckoning of their environment and their
travelling trail by scent marks in their
paw. I say this because of rows of corn in a neighboring field and for
which cats can wander through
the corn and still find their way back home. I am not sure how large
of a plot of area of land a cat
can call home and still remember where she is in the plot. I think a
square kilometer is probably
a good bet as to how large a cat can call home and know all features
of that area. I think it is
a "geometry" of the land that when you pick up the cat in one part of
the area and place her in
another part that she instantly recognizes "where she is". But I think
that when a cat goes
wandering inside a cornfield to hunt, that she uses the scent on her
paws to remember how
to get back home.
But anyway, a large hazard to outdoor cats is the density of neighbors
and especially if the
neighbors favor birds and birdwatching over that of cats and cats
desire to catch birds. So,
here, a cat owner has to feed the cat so much that the cat has no
urgent compulsion to
make her hunting grounds that of the neighbors birdfeeders.
So if you have a outdoor cat, you have the responsibility of feeding
the cat so that the cat
does not make neighbors birdfeeders their daily routine.
Summary: owning a cat is huge and numerous list of responsibilities
I will not be replacing my dead cats, simply because I realize what a
huge list of responsibilities
cat ownership involves, and I do not have the time for that as my
science work beckons me.
Archimedes Plutonium
my mind about getting a new cat. What changed my mind is that I began
hearing the familar sound of mice in the walls.
So what I did was find a cat that already is a carrier and survivor
of "distemper".
Correct me if wrong, but I believe with good observation, one can tell
if a cat is a virus carrier by looking at the eyes if anything is
wrong with the eyes such as a daily discharge or a eye problem of any
type. Secondly, if the breathing of the cat is anything from normal
breathing such as labored breathing. Thirdly, if the cat is not
very enthusiastic, and hence dis-tempered. Of course, the sure
diagnosis is a vomiting of stomach lining and refusal to eat.
I wonder if the color of the coat can somehow warn of a viral infection?
So I have a new cat, and who is already a distemper carrier and survivor.
J
> Well, it did not take long, just a month in fact for me to change
> my mind about getting a new cat. What changed my mind is that I began
> hearing the familar sound of mice in the walls.
>
> So what I did was find a cat that already is a carrier and survivor
> of "distemper".
>
> Correct me if wrong, but I believe with good observation, one can tell
> if a cat is a virus carrier by looking at the eyes if anything is
> wrong with the eyes such as a daily discharge or a eye problem of any
> type. Secondly, if the breathing of the cat is anything from normal
> breathing such as labored breathing. Thirdly, if the cat is not
> very enthusiastic, and hence dis-tempered. Of course, the sure
> diagnosis is a vomiting of stomach lining and refusal to eat.
>
> I wonder if the color of the coat can somehow warn of a viral infection?
>
> So I have a new cat, and who is already a distemper carrier and survivor.
A cat that's vomiting its stomach lining and not eating is probably going to
die.
A cat's coat - condition is one of the ways to know if it is healthy (or
not).
The female stray here seems fine, except for the 3rd eyelids and some
sneezing and some discharge from her eyes.
Gaining weight, friendly, eating well
I said that a new cat should be checked by a vet and tested, before
vaccination (and/or adoption).
How do you know what it is vomiting is its stomach lining (and not mouse or
bird remains)?
I can discern, by the look of a cat or kitten's eyes, if it is well or not,
but I'm experienced.
Why don't you take the cat to a vet?
You might have to put it down or perhaps they can tell you what it has (or
hasn't) and help you find a healthier stray.
Save what it's vomiting and take it in with the cat.
There's certainly lots (of strays) around. But they don't (necessarily) stay
that way, unless under appropriate (veterinary) care.
Here's some reading
http://www.oldandsold.com/articles02/cats10.shtml
Distemper, Tuberculosis, and Infectious Enteritis
[On Grooming a Cat] [Things an Indoor Cat Needs] [Colds and What They Lead
To] [More about Respiratory Diseases] [Distemper, Tuberculosis, and
Infectious Enteritis] [Troubles of the Digestive Tract] [Worms and Hair
Balls] [Diseases of the Nerves and Brain]
http://markwinpetresort.com/feline-vaccinations.html
Feline Vaccinations
http://animals.howstuffworks.com/pets/home-remedies-for-cats-ga1.htm
How to Tell if a Cat Is Sick
http://wellvet.com/vomit.html
Vomiting and Regurgitation in Dogs and Cats
a chronic vomiting animal is sick, and the the problem needs to be corrected,
If the cat can be improved/saved, the vet will tell you what is required, the
cost and eventually what diet is best for it.
J
plutonium....@gmail.com
J wrote:
> Archimedes Plutonium wrote:
> I can discern, by the look of a cat or kitten's eyes, if it is well or not,
> but I'm experienced.
> Why don't you take the cat to a vet?
If the stray stays here, I will get her the yearly vaccines.
plutonium....@gmail.com
I want to try to put cat distemper in some sort of perspective
comparison to
human health. Suppose that if humans caught a cold-virus and which
thence
proceeds to become fatal. In otherwords, it is rare that anyone
survives a
cold virus is about the same as for cat-distemper.
If that is a adequate and plausible comparison, then the next question
should
be why has the veterinary science not isolated genetically-immune cats
of this distemper virus, so that the world is starting to become free
of all
other cats that are fatal to distemper?
Perhaps a partial answer is that the domesticated cat is the distemper
prone genetic cat and that if there never was a domesticated cat, that
all the wild ones would be distemper immune.
I do not know the full situation, what I do know is that the world has
a
cat overpopulation for which it is too highly disease-prone.
plutonium....@gmail.com
I am going to need to turn this into a new book becuase the
implications of the concept
are very much large and pertaining to the future of humanity with
respect to human
overpopulation and with respect to pandemics.
As far as I can tell, the cat species since it is associated with the
human species
has the world's highest Species-Viral-Density.
Let me try to give a first stab definition of Species Viral Density.
Species-Viral-Density is the amount of viruses that are fatal to a
species and the
ease at which those viruses infect the species.
In the case of the animal kingdom, I would hazard to guess that the
cat species
has the world's highest Species-Viral-Density with three viruses, one
of which is
cat-distemper that has the ability to infect and is fatal like no
other virus of any
other animal species. The worst virus for humans is HIV and the
birdflu, but
neither of them compares to cat's distemper virus in terms of
infectivity and
fatality. If humanity had a virus comparable to cat distemper it would
be if
humanity's common cold virus were fatal. The cat species has not only
one such killer but three of them.
Why is the cat species the highest Viral-Density? It is because cats
are a
pet species of humanity where they are overpopulated because humanity
is overpopulated. And since overpopulated that the species of cat is
allowed
too much "unfit genetics" as spreading viruses. If the cat species had
never
been a pet of humanity, the wild cats would have been made immune to
the
viruses.
This is important for the future of the human species because our
viral-load
will only keep increasing due to our penchant of overpopulation. As we
increase
from 7 billion humans on Earth to that of 10 billion humans, somewhere
along that
rise will follow a viral load that is both infective and fatal.
Somewhere along that
rise will occur a virus that not only is as infective as the "common
cold" but is
as deadly as distemper is to a cat.