Bread Turns "Sticky"
Eva Deck
within the last several months, when I go to take a slice from a loaf
that I made a few days ago, I will notice that the open, sliced-upon end
of the loaf will feel very sticky and almost look moist, as if it had
been spread with honey, and have an odd smell. Today, the loaf was
sticky like that all the rest of the way through. I used to be able to
keep bread for as much as ten days, and it would still be good (we go
camping, and I would bake several loaves to use while away from home and
it would be good right up to the end; but not any more). If anything it
might have developed the usual dusty green mold which is not much of a
problem. But these "stickies" as I call them are too much.
What could be wrong? Am I getting a stray strain of yeast or other
beast that is causing my bread to go bad? I have assumed that it is at
least not toxic and eat the bread as long as it is just barely
noticeable. I'm a man of simple tastes and follow a very simple recipe
for almost every loaf of bread I make.
The ingredients are:
400 ml water
1 T dry yeast (Red Star in 2-pound vacuum bag, re-packaged and kept in
freezer)
1 T salt (or less)
1-2 T dry skim milk powder (optional)
1-2 T flax or sesame seeds (optional)
About 4 cups flour (all white, or half white/half whole grain wheat or
rye, or all whole grain wheat)
I use a large (8-quart) stainless steel bowl, which I cover with a large
SS pot lid.
I mix half the flour with the other dry ingredients, add water and let
stand for a while. Then I add in the rest of the flour to get a firm
dough, knead, rise once in the bowl, punch down and shape loaf, put in
pan for final rise (cover with bowl). I sometimes toss a little water in
the oven right after putting the pan in, to generate steam. I wax the
bread pans with a little beeswax.
Almost always I bake at 450ºF for 35 minutes.
When the bread is cool I put it into a fresh clean plastic bag and store
at room temperature.
I thoroughly wash but do not disinfect equipment between batches, I
knead on a piece of canvas which could carry a culture, and use wooden
spoons ditto. I went through all my equipment and sterilized with
chlorine bleach, to no avail.
Is there any place I can send a sample of the end of an afflicted loaf,
for someone to look and see what might be there?
Any suggestions or comments would be appreciated.
--
mailto:ed...@gatecom.com
Yjgent
of the loaf will feel very sticky and almost look moist, as if it had
been spread with honey, and have an odd smell. Today, the loaf was
sticky like that all the rest of the way through. >>
This may be VERY OLD info. When I was taking my very first microbiology course
(1965) we were told of an organism that contaminates bread - called "ropey
bread". If I remember correctely it is caused by a bacteria called Klebsiella
(it wasn't called that then so I may be wrong about that). But I remember
seeing a picture of a sliced loaf of bread with sticky "strings" between the
loaf halfs - this is actually the bacteria. Klebsiella will do this when it is
growing on an agar plate.
John Gentile M(ASCP) President - Rhode Island Apple Group
yjg...@aol.com
Microbiologists do it with culture.
Bob/Judy Dilworth
a bread maker. The only thing that strikes me after reading your
description is that you knead on a piece of canvas. Why do you do
this? Why not knead on a hard surface that can be completely cleaned
when you're done? How old is this canvas? Is it also 15 years old?
Ewwwww. Throw it out. Also, why beeswax? Why not margarine or
cooking spray? Something too organic about this for my tastes,
although you'd think anything in the beeswax would be killed in the
baking. I've just never used these two items. I also clean up with a
dishwasher afterward, although I have those new "coated" bread pans
and just wipe them out. The bread maker is really easy!!!!!! I
haven't made dough from scratch since I got it. You can set it on the
dough setting and then form your loaf from that.
If it is Klebsiella, a mucoid bacteria that can be found in the gut of
humans (and also environmentally) that would gross me out and I could
never eat bread I thought was tainted with this, as I see it almost
every day at work in patients with urinary tract infections and
respiratory tract infections. But then again, we don't know if it is
that.
Just some thoughts. Hard to tell from here what it is. Is it very
humid where you are? The heat wave this summer is going to reduce
your storage time considerably if you're not in air conditioning.
Bacteria and fungi love warm moist conditions inside plastic bags
(like our incubators at work). Could just be your storage situation.
Why not freeze the loaves when cool? This would prevent your
problem. Bread keeps about a month if double wrapped and frozen when
cooled off.
Hope I've helped.
Judy Dilworth, M.T. (ASCP)
Microbiology 25 years
Eva Deck wrote:
>
> I've been baking all our bread for the last fifteen years or so. Just
> within the last several months, when I go to take a slice from a loaf
> that I made a few days ago, I will notice that the open, sliced-upon end
> of the loaf will feel very sticky and almost look moist, as if it had
> been spread with honey, and have an odd smell. Today, the loaf was
> sticky like that all the rest of the way through. I used to be able to
> keep bread for as much as ten days, and it would still be good (we go
> camping, and I would bake several loaves to use while away from home and
> it would be good right up to the end; but not any more). If anything it
> might have developed the usual dusty green mold which is not much of a
> problem. But these "stickies" as I call them are too much.
>
> ......... I wax the
> bread pans with a little beeswax.
ianj
Eva Deck wrote in message <37C8008A...@gatecom.com>...
>I've been baking all our bread for the last fifteen years or so. Just
>within the last several months, when I go to take a slice from a loaf
>that I made a few days ago, I will notice that the open, sliced-upon end
>of the loaf will feel very sticky and almost look moist, as if it had
>been spread with honey, and have an odd smell.
I'm afraid that my MT(ASCP) friends have got it all wrong!! If the smell is
like a melon or a cantaloupe then I am sure that you have ropey bread. But
it is caused by Bacillus subtilis or Bacillus licheniformis. Don't eat this
bread!! (I'm not sure that you would want to- but if you were camping...)
These organisms have been described as causing food poisoning !
Judy is correct about cleanliness (she's usually correct about most things)-
you need to get a new board for kneeding your dough. This bacterium may come
from the flour (especially wholemeal types) but I would suspect that it has
taken up residence in your canvas or mixing bowl etc. The organism is VERY
resistant to heat etc. I suggest the following:
place items that can be safely cooked in the oven at 160°C for 1
hour (I'm sorry but you'll have to do the conversion to °F)
throw out stuff that could be considered replaceable
thoroughly wash and bleach other items
You could also try cooking the loaf more thoroughly- a loaf of bread
only reaches 100°C (boiling point) at about the time it comes out of the
oven. When we test for rope spores in the lab we heat the sample (in liquid)
at 95°C for (I can't remember, but about) 5-10 minutes- and it survives!!
I hope this helps you and you can continue successful breadmaking.
Ian Jenson
Food Microbiologist
Australia
Bob/Judy Dilworth
place of employment, I had no idea that it could be Bacillus. Makes
more sense than Klebsiella, which is a gut organism. I had no idea
that Bacillus was THAT tolerant of high heat. Good thing to know.
Hope all of this has helped Eva. It certainly has enlightened me!
Judy Dilworth, M.T. (ASCP)
Microbiology (not food micro!)
ianj wrote:
> I'm afraid that my MT(ASCP) friends have got it all wrong!!
[we tried though.......:-)]
If the smell is like a melon or a cantaloupe then I am sure that you
have ropey bread. But
> it is caused by Bacillus subtilis or Bacillus licheniformis. Don't eat this
> bread!! (I'm not sure that you would want to- but if you were camping...)
> These organisms have been described as causing food poisoning !
>
> Judy is correct about cleanliness (she's usually correct about most things)
(this Ian is such a nice person.......)
ianj
if both these look the same to you then yours is one of those computers!).
The temperature should be one hundred and sixty degrees celcius.
Ian
Eva Deck
and asked for help:
sci.bio.food-science
sci.bio.microbiology
Rec.food.baking
I received several responses, and wish to thank those who took the time
to offer me diagnoses and propose cures. I think that with your help,
especially that of "Len" who gave me the following diagnosis (special
thanks to you, Len), the problem has been (at least tentatively)
identified as far as I am concerned: a condition known as "rope" or
"ropey bread", caused by a bacterium called bacillus mesentericus.
Besides the diagnosis, Len told me that these organisms will not develop
if there is sufficient acidity in the dough (which can be provided by
the addition of vinegar). Further, I have always kneaded my bread on a
piece of canvas, which I washed from time to time but which must
certainly be suspect if there is carryover of spores from one batch to
the next. I have since made a loaf using vinegar (1T in a 4-cup batch),
and it was OK. Then I sponged down my counter-top and work area with
vinegar and made a batch kneaded on the counter top (i.e. no canvas):
after two days still OK. I'll report later on the final outcome.
Meanwhile I found an excellent treatment of the problem (same bacillus
and suggested cure) in the Troubleshooting section of the Fleischmann's
Yeast web page: http://www.breadworld.com/tips/traditional/storage.asp.
Also I got the same info in an e-mail response from Red Star Yeast.
Once again, thanks for all your help.
Charlie Deck: I'm the breadmaker
(Our Internet ISP account is in my wife's name: Eva. No deception
intended).
Yjgent
I'm afraid that my MT(ASCP) friends have got it all wrong!! If the smell is
like a melon or a cantaloupe then I am sure that you have ropey bread. But
it is caused by Bacillus subtilis or Bacillus licheniformis. >>
Thank you Ian for correcting me. It seems that 34 years is too long to remember
when I don't do food micro. (at least I got the ropey bread part right!)
John