Cooler Climate than we Thought at OOL
Tom Hendricks
http://www.terradaily.com/reports/Life_on_Earth_Quicker_start_than_thought_999.html
Lorentz
> This suggests a cooler climate 3.4 bya.
>
Did you read that article in Scientific American on the "Lost
City" vent system?
They just discovered a new type of vent system, different from the
"Black Smokers" vent system. The newest speculation is that OOL is
much more likely under the White Smoker conditions than the Black
Smoker.
These "White Smokers" are much cooler than the Black Smokers. The
white smokers are on the order of 90 C, whereas the Black Smokers were
more on the order of 400 K.
Here is a difference you may find dissappoint. The organisms that
currently live in the White Smokers are 100% isolated from sunlight
including UV. The ecosystem in the white smoker does not use any
oxygen, which is a product of the photosynthesis at the surface of the
earth. This makes it different from any other ecosystem in the world.
Yet, abiotic chemical processes in the White Smokers are forming most
of the simplest compounds necessary for the formation of life. Lipids,
proteins and other chemicals are being produced without a single
photon of light or UV. That also means no diurnal "cycle."
I was surprised to find that the organisms near the black smokers
do use sunlight, a little bit. They get most of their energy from the
sulfuric acid that is generated near the Black Smoke vent. However,
they also need oxygen. Oxygen is what comes from photosynthesis. The
white smokers (the "Lost City" type volcanic vent) don;t have any free
oxygen at all. So the organisms that currently live there, and which
have probably lived there since OOL, are completely solar free.
The organisms and abiotic chemistry of these regions has been
unchanged for the longest time. The low pH of the region keeps almost
all organisms away. These organisms have not had a change of
environment for billions of years. So the white smoke regions are the
closest thing to life without time. No doubt we human beings are going
to disrupt their existences, we always do |:-)
The organisms in these White Smokers are being genetically
studied. They seem to be near the base of the family tree of
organisms. At least the DNA in their ribosomes seem to be near the
base. There were probably more White Smokers 4 BYA than there are
today.
I finally have a system to show you that is a very plausible
candidate for OOL, but which does not seem to have any connection with
the diurnal cycle. Not UV, no daily cycle of light and dark, nor any
thermal cycle. The energy in the white smokers has no connection to
the sun. Zero. So I think your older model, that life needs the sun,
seems sunk.
Without the sun, the sea would probably freeze far from the vents.
However, both vent systems are being warmed by geothermal sources.
Even if the sea froze up, there would still be a little liquid water
in the vents. Both black smokers and white smokers would still have
liquid water. S
What is needed for exotic chemistry is a thermal gradient, and an
adsorbing surface. Maybe you should try tying in your anabolic-
catabolic duality to the newly discovered white smokers. Of course,
the organisms there are only the simplest. There is no sleep to speak
of, no nurturing, no protective, nothing but organic chemistry. But
that is really where the words anabolic and catabolic belong.
Tom Hendricks
> On Nov 16, 1:07=3DA0am, Tom Hendricks <tom-hendri...@att.net> wrote:
>
> > This suggests a cooler climate 3.4 bya.
>
> >http://www.terradaily.com/reports/Life_on_Earth_Quicker_start_than_th...
>
> City" vent system?
> =A0 =A0 They just discovered a new type of vent system, different from th=
e
> "Black Smokers" vent system. The newest speculation is that OOL is
> much more likely under the White Smoker conditions than the Black
> Smoker.
The
> white smokers are on the order of 90 C, whereas the Black Smokers were
> more on the order of 400 K.
hat
> currently live in the White Smokers are 100% isolated from sunlight
> including UV. The ecosystem in the white smoker does not use any
> oxygen, which is a product of the photosynthesis at the surface of the
> earth. This makes it different from any other ecosystem in the world.
> Yet, abiotic chemical processes in the White Smokers are forming most
> of the simplest compounds necessary for the formation of life. Lipids,
> proteins and other chemicals are being produced without a single
> photon of light or UV. That also means no diurnal "cycle."
> do use sunlight, a little bit. They get most of their energy from the
> sulfuric acid that is generated near the Black Smoke vent. However,
> they also need oxygen. Oxygen is what comes from photosynthesis. The
> white smokers (the "Lost City" type volcanic vent) don;t have any free
> oxygen at all. So the organisms that currently live there, and which
> have probably lived there since OOL, are completely solar free.
> unchanged for the longest time. The low pH of the region keeps almost
> all organisms away. These organisms have not had a change of
> closest thing to life without time. No doubt we human beings are going
> to disrupt their existences, we always do |:-)
> studied. They seem to =A0be near the base of the family tree of
> organisms. At least the DNA in their ribosomes seem to be near the
> base. There were probably more White Smokers 4 BYA than there are
> today.
> candidate for OOL, but which does not seem to have any connection with
> the diurnal cycle. Not UV, no daily cycle of light and dark, nor any
> thermal cycle. The energy in the white smokers has no connection to
> the sun. Zero. So I think your older model, that life needs the sun,
> seems sunk.
..
> However, both vent systems are being warmed by geothermal sources.
> Even if the sea froze up, there would still be a little liquid water
> in the vents. Both black smokers and white smokers would still have
> liquid water. S
> adsorbing surface. Maybe you should try tying in your anabolic-
> catabolic duality to the newly discovered white smokers. Of course,
> the organisms there are only the simplest. There is no sleep to speak
> of, no nurturing, no protective, nothing but organic chemistry. But
> that is really where the words anabolic and catabolic belong.
This does sound like a problem to my ideas.
I have not seen it. If you have a url let me know.
I would wonder if there is any UV repair mechanisms in the white
smokers
genomes.
Lorentz
> On Nov 25, 2:04=3DA0pm, Lorentz <drosen0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> This does sound like a problem to my ideas.
I doesn't kill your ideas outright. Some people seriously doubt
that an environment completely devoid of dissolved metals could
actually be the spot where life originated.
However, it does highlight that some of your enthusiastic
assertions are wrong. You said there is no life without some
connection with sunlight, and without diurnal cycles. There are living
things on earth that could be perfectly happy if the sun were to go
out, and have absolutely no diurnal cycle. Even cave creatures aren't
as totally isolated as these creatures are.
> I have not seen it. If you have a url let me know.
This essay concentrates on the dark ecosystem of the white smoker
http://www.divediscover.whoi.edu/vents/vent-infomod.html#
This article merely defines the white smoker.
http://curezone.com/upload/PDF/essays/deep_sea_vents.pdf
Here is an article on the gene sequence of an organism that was
originally found in a =93white smoker=94
http://www.usc.edu/org/coseewest/AprilLectureMaterials/Articles/FirstSequen=
cedExtremophile.pdf
Try to look for this months Discover Magazine.
> I would wonder if there is any UV repair mechanisms in the white
> smokers
> genomes.
I wonder if they have any DNA repair mechanisms at all. I am not
sure they really need one.
I don't think there is any empirical way to distinguish between a
UV repair mechanism and any DNA repair mechanism. True, organisms
have DNA mechanisms. However, I don't think any of them are
specifically UV repair mechanisms.
Hey, I found a problem with your anabolic-catabolic ideas. Most
damage to DNA is caused by respiratory processes. An example would be
the damage caused by free radicals generated by our mitochondria. This
exists independently of UV.
This means that DNA damage is associated with catabolic
metabolism. You like to associated the catabolic-anabolic split with
everything. However, this goes against the UV is everything model. Why
should a catabolic process have anything to do with UV?