Horary question
Edmond Wollmann
>
> indigocoatl wrote in message <3c1b8e52...@news.earthlink.net>...
> >Hello folks,
> >I have misplaced a necklace - I can't seem to find it! I've been
> >looking for it for a while, but yesterday at exactly 2:23:30pm I
> >formulated a horary question: 'where is my necklace?'
>
> Let see a chart with Equal Houses:
>
> +-------<11>29Aqu18'20"----<10>29Cap18'20"-----<9>29Sag18'20"---------
> ------+
> | Mar 4Pis19'51" | Nep 6Aqu53'34" | | Mer
> 28Sag27'07" |
> | | Ura 21Aqu44'51" | | Sun
> 22Sag55'00" |
> | | | Mid 19Cap14'05" | Moo
> 22Sag42'45" |
> | | | Plu 15Sag23'53" | Ven
> 15Sag34'38" |
> <12>29Pis18'20"----|-------------------------------------|-----29Sco18
> '20"<8>
> | For 29Ari06'06" | Astrolog 5.41F chart |
> |
> | | Julie's neckless |
> |
> | | Fri Dec 14 2001 14:23 |
> |
> | | ST -06:00, 98:30W 29:25N |
> |
> <1>29Ari18'20"-----| UT: 20:23, Sid.T: 19:23
> |-----29Lib18'20"<7>
> | | Equal Houses |
> |
> | | Tropical / Geocentric |
> |
> | | Julian Day = 2452258.3493 |
> |
> | | | Ver
> 12Lib48'44" |
> <2>29Tau18'20"-----|-------------------------------------|-----29Vir18
> '20"<6>
> | Sat 10Gem33'58"r | Jup 12Can54'17"r | |
> |
> | Nod 27Gem15'54"r | | |
> |
> | | | |
> |
> | | | |
> |
> +---------------29Gem18'20"<3>-----29Can18'20"<4>-----29Leo18'20"<5>--
> ------+
>
> The First house and the Moon represent the person asking the question
> (Julie); the second house represents the neckless (it has to do with
> any belongings). So we must look aspects between the significators of
> the consultant and those of the belongings.
>
> When Ascendant falls in the three last degrees, one may espect that a
> "change" may happen (sic).
>
> What we see is that both Venus and Mars aspect Saturn in the second
> house by opposition and square. With Saturn there, I wonder if has not
> been lost for a while, even stolen (Mars-Saturn square)? Saturn ruling
> the ninth house, and being in Gemini, it could have happen while you
> were travelling.
>
> Looking at Venus and Mercury as rulers of the second house and being
> in the eighth house (washroom) and in a reading place. Venus being in
> conjonction to Pluto ruling the seventh house, you may look at your
> sleeping room... (The latter is my choice.)
>
> Just hope that the idea of the neckless being stolen isn't true ;-(
>
> --
> François
The chart is unusable because of 29 degrees Aries on the ascendant,
which means "too late" to ask the question, or that the issue has
advanced to a degree where the question is no longer relevant.
"He had white horses, and ladies by the score. All dressed in Satin, and
waiting by the door. OOOOOooooooo what a lucky man, he was....
A bullet, had found him, his blood ran while he cried. Nobody could save
him. So he laid down and he died. OOOOOOOoooooo what a lucky man, he
was." Lucky Man
--
Edmond H. Wollmann P.M.A.F.A.
© 2001 Altair Publications, SAN 299-5603
Astrological Consulting http://www.astroconsulting.com/
Artworks http://www.e-wollmann.com/
http://www.astroconsulting.com/FAQs/
indigocoatl
Ed,
So how would you interpret that in this instance, asking about a lost
item?
The necklace is stolen?
Julie, curious.
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
Julie and Geno, sweethearts forever
Geno Luker, April 29, 1985 - June 14, 2001
"The best place to bury a good dog
is in the heart of his master."
Edmond Wollmann
> On Mon, 17 Dec 2001 00:57:39 GMT, Edmond Wollmann
> <E...@astroconsulting.com> wrote:
> >Francois Carriere wrote:
> >> indigocoatl wrote in message <3c1b8e52...@news.earthlink.net>...
> >> >Hello folks,
> >> >I have misplaced a necklace - I can't seem to find it! I've been
> >> >looking for it for a while, but yesterday at exactly 2:23:30pm I
> >> >formulated a horary question: 'where is my necklace?'
+-------<11>15Aqu12----<10>19Cap14-----<9>25Sag54-----------+
| Ura 21Aqu45 | Nep 6Aqu54 | | Sun 22Sag55 |
| Mar 4Pis20 | | | Moo 22Sag43 |
| | | | Ven 15Sag35 |
| | | Mer 28Sag27 | Plu 15Sag24 |
<12>18Pis05----|-----------------------------|----- 1Sag01<8>
| | Astrolog 5.40 chart | |
| | Necklace? | |
| | Fri Dec 14 2001 2:23pm | |
| | San Antonio, TX | |
<1>29Ari18-----| ST -06:00, 98:30W 29:25N |-----29Lib18<7>
| | UT: 20:23, Sid.T: 19:23 | |
| | Placidus Houses | |
| | Tropical / Geocentric | |
| | Julian Day = 2452258.3493 | |
<2> 1Gem01-----|-----------------------------|-----18Vir05<6>
| Sat 10Gem34r | Nod 27Gem16r | | |
| | Jup 12Can54r | | |
| | | | |
| | | | |
+-----------25Gem54<3>-----19Can14<4>-----15Leo12<5>--------+
> >> The First house and the Moon represent the person asking the question
> >> (Julie); the second house represents the neckless (it has to do with
> >> any belongings). So we must look aspects between the significators of
> >> the consultant and those of the belongings.
> >> When Ascendant falls in the three last degrees, one may espect that a
> >> "change" may happen (sic).
> >> What we see is that both Venus and Mars aspect Saturn in the second
> >> house by opposition and square. With Saturn there, I wonder if has not
> >> been lost for a while, even stolen (Mars-Saturn square)? Saturn ruling
> >> the ninth house, and being in Gemini, it could have happen while you
> >> were travelling.
> >> Looking at Venus and Mercury as rulers of the second house and being
> >> in the eighth house (washroom) and in a reading place. Venus being in
> >> conjonction to Pluto ruling the seventh house, you may look at your
> >> sleeping room... (The latter is my choice.)
> >> Just hope that the idea of the neckless being stolen isn't true ;-(
> >> François
> >The chart is unusable because of 29 degrees Aries on the ascendant,
> >which means "too late" to ask the question, or that the issue has
> >advanced to a degree where the question is no longer relevant.
> Ed,
> So how would you interpret that in this instance, asking about a lost
> item?
My first caution is, that I ONLY look at charts such as this as an
OUTGROWTH of a client who has already had a natal consultation and
perhaps other work--so I would not be starting from scratch with the
life involved, but would have a clear picture of the entire momentum of
the individual. So I cannot possibly be laser accurate on what the case
is. So this is admittedly sketchy.
Secondly, at the cost of sounding repetitive, I have to reiterate, that
I don't believe astrology "causes" anything. Therefore the 29 degrees
tells us more about the querent's state and issues regarding the loss,
rather than the loss. Because Mars rules the ascendant we would have to
look at its position (11 love recieved and friends). And because the
eclipse was occurring at the time of the question the issue may be long
standing or take very unexpected twists and turns. Mars is disposed of
by Neptune in 10, so your status perhaps with a friend or what the
necklace means (to both) may have something to do with its
dissapearance.
Some astrologers say they can find the item using this chart, I have
never found that to be the case.
> The necklace is stolen?
It very well could have been, but the Sag in 8 implies the beliefs and
opinions of someone else, and what effect the necklace has on their
worth, may have something to do with it (this sun/moon conjunction also
represents you though, and your romance perhaps attached to it). I would
also say that the question may be too late because the momentum is
already on its way to resolving the issue, that is what I usually find
that the 29 means. Or that something changes which makes the urgency of
finding it--moot.
Hope this is somewhat helpful.Ed
"As I walk through, this wicked world,
I ask myself, "Is there only pain and hatred and misery?"
So where are the strong???
And who are the trusted???
And where is the HHHHHHHAAAAAAARRRRRRMMMMMONY? Sweet harmony?
And each time I see it slip away, just makes me wanna cry;
What's so funny about peace, love, and understanding?
OOOoohhhhhhh, what's so funny about peace, love, and understanding?"
Elvis Costello
Spamster
Edmond Wollmann wrote:
When you think you can scam a poor unsuspecting rube out of their hard-earned
money.
How does it serve you to have your very own alt.bonehead newsgroup, bonehead?
indigocoatl
<E...@astroconsulting.com> wrote:
Okay. That makes sense if you do it that way.
>Secondly, at the cost of sounding repetitive, I have to reiterate, that
>I don't believe astrology "causes" anything.
Me neither.
>Therefore the 29 degrees
>tells us more about the querent's state and issues regarding the loss,
>rather than the loss. Because Mars rules the ascendant we would have to
>look at its position (11 love recieved and friends). And because the
>eclipse was occurring at the time of the question the issue may be long
>standing or take very unexpected twists and turns. Mars is disposed of
>by Neptune in 10, so your status perhaps with a friend or what the
>necklace means (to both) may have something to do with its
>dissapearance.
Well, maybe we have to go with 11: hopes and dreams, because the
necklace has absolutely nothing to do with any friend. I bought it for
myself.
Of course, it is a Jerusalem cross, and I'm finding that my
relationship with Christianity is at a low ebb, so maybe it is
indicating that. And it's been a twisty road, for sure.
>Some astrologers say they can find the item using this chart, I have
>never found that to be the case.
Okay. That's what I was looking for - where to find the necklace. But
with 29AR rising, the question is moot.
I sure was pissed when I saw that rising degree! It was a quite
expensive necklace.
>
>> The necklace is stolen?
>
>It very well could have been, but the Sag in 8 implies the beliefs and
>opinions of someone else, and what effect the necklace has on their
>worth, may have something to do with it
heh. This is making more and more sense - as my parents are quite
Fundamentalist, and if they knew where my spirituality was leading me
they would be quite upset.
>(this sun/moon conjunction also
>represents you though, and your romance perhaps attached to it).
Indeed. I saw a similar pendant on someone else in 1988, and wanted
one like it for 10 years before I finally bought it for myself.
PL and VE are there, too, though I imagine that PL isn't considered in
Horary.
VE makes sense, doesn't it.
>I would
>also say that the question may be too late because the momentum is
>already on its way to resolving the issue, that is what I usually find
>that the 29 means.
Well, hopefully the momentum is toward me finding the darn thing!
>Or that something changes which makes the urgency of
>finding it--moot.
>Hope this is somewhat helpful.Ed
Yes, it is helpful.
Thanks, Ed...
Julie
Edmond Wollmann
> >> >Francois Carriere wrote:
> >> >> François
Good!
> >Therefore the 29 degrees
> >tells us more about the querent's state and issues regarding the loss,
This would mean your identity crisis at this time (Aries).
> >rather than the loss. Because Mars rules the ascendant we would have to
> >look at its position (11 love recieved and friends). And because the
> >eclipse was occurring at the time of the question the issue may be long
> >standing or take very unexpected twists and turns. Mars is disposed of
> >by Neptune in 10, so your status perhaps with a friend or what the
> >necklace means (to both) may have something to do with its
> >dissapearance.
> Well, maybe we have to go with 11: hopes and dreams, because the
> necklace has absolutely nothing to do with any friend. I bought it for
> myself.
Social interaction is indicated by the 11th, so perhaps the religious
indicators from Sag means you are having a crisis about your identity
with regard to belief? One's religious beliefs says a lot about what
sort of social life they will have.
> Of course, it is a Jerusalem cross, and I'm finding that my
> relationship with Christianity is at a low ebb, so maybe it is
> indicating that. And it's been a twisty road, for sure.
Ahhh, I see now.
> >Some astrologers say they can find the item using this chart, I have
> >never found that to be the case.
> Okay. That's what I was looking for - where to find the necklace. But
> with 29AR rising, the question is moot.
> I sure was pissed when I saw that rising degree! It was a quite
> expensive necklace.
Well, maybe holding beliefs you don't really prefer is more expensive?
> >> The necklace is stolen?
> >It very well could have been, but the Sag in 8 implies the beliefs and
> >opinions of someone else, and what effect the necklace has on their
> >worth, may have something to do with it
> heh. This is making more and more sense - as my parents are quite
> Fundamentalist, and if they knew where my spirituality was leading me
> they would be quite upset.
Do they insist on their beliefs?
> >(this sun/moon conjunction also
> >represents you though, and your romance perhaps attached to it).
> Indeed. I saw a similar pendant on someone else in 1988, and wanted
> one like it for 10 years before I finally bought it for myself.
Your ideals then, yes (11).
> PL and VE are there, too, though I imagine that PL isn't considered in
> Horary.
> VE makes sense, doesn't it.
Well, I consider it, because it is available now, the only reason things
are not "used" in horary is because no one has been bold enough to
update it and include them, and they weren't used when it was
"invented." But the conjunction of those 2 would reflect control needs
and social issues revolving around the religious aspects of the querent.
> >I would
> >also say that the question may be too late because the momentum is
> >already on its way to resolving the issue, that is what I usually find
> >that the 29 means.
> Well, hopefully the momentum is toward me finding the darn thing!
> >Or that something changes which makes the urgency of
> >finding it--moot.
> >Hope this is somewhat helpful.Ed
> Yes, it is helpful.
Maybe you wanted to lose it, at least for the moment to think about
things?
> Thanks, Ed...
Thank you for talking to me:-) Like I am a person!:-))
Nadine
kook, failed predictor, plagiarist, thief, asshole, Usenet spammer,
20-time Net and ISP account loser, physical stalker, unlicensed
fraudulent "counselor" who has sex with his "clients", borrows money
from them, then publicly discloses their private communications after
they call him on his lack of ethics, who illegally operates an
astrology business in San Diego, who was convicted in San Diego on
6/28/98 of a misdemeanor (PC 555-Unlawful Entry), fined, and placed on
probation, sued in San Diego for Unlawful Detainer and evicted in
3/96, past violator of Federal and State game laws for
abusing wildlife, who was described, punished, and banned from
University servers as an abuser by SDSU, and who is a remorseless
confessed killer of another human being, lied:
>
> Thank you for talking to me:-) Like I am a person!:-)
Why don't you try it with others sometimes, you fucking scumbag?
indigocoatl
<E...@astroconsulting.com> wrote:
But it seems to be a good indicator of what's actually going on... ;)
>> >Therefore the 29 degrees
>> >tells us more about the querent's state and issues regarding the loss,
>
>This would mean your identity crisis at this time (Aries).
Bingo.
>> >rather than the loss. Because Mars rules the ascendant we would have to
>> >look at its position (11 love recieved and friends). And because the
>> >eclipse was occurring at the time of the question the issue may be long
>> >standing or take very unexpected twists and turns. Mars is disposed of
>> >by Neptune in 10, so your status perhaps with a friend or what the
>> >necklace means (to both) may have something to do with its
>> >dissapearance.
>
>> Well, maybe we have to go with 11: hopes and dreams, because the
>> necklace has absolutely nothing to do with any friend. I bought it for
>> myself.
>
>Social interaction is indicated by the 11th, so perhaps the religious
>indicators from Sag means you are having a crisis about your identity
>with regard to belief?
Crisis is a bit strong of a word - but now that I'm writing this, it
fits. It hasn't been a sudden crisis, though - rather a long accepting
of where I *really* am, spiritually speaking.
>One's religious beliefs says a lot about what
>sort of social life they will have.
heh.
And my social circle is growing, too - after letting go of the church
I had been going to for a while.
Interesting connections!
>> Of course, it is a Jerusalem cross, and I'm finding that my
>> relationship with Christianity is at a low ebb, so maybe it is
>> indicating that. And it's been a twisty road, for sure.
>
>Ahhh, I see now.
>
>> >Some astrologers say they can find the item using this chart, I have
>> >never found that to be the case.
>
>> Okay. That's what I was looking for - where to find the necklace. But
>> with 29AR rising, the question is moot.
>> I sure was pissed when I saw that rising degree! It was a quite
>> expensive necklace.
>
>Well, maybe holding beliefs you don't really prefer is more expensive?
Whew. Bingo, Ed. That's an amazing, right-on question.
When I think about the internal stresses I've been living with the
answer to it is obvious - YES.
>> >> The necklace is stolen?
>
>> >It very well could have been, but the Sag in 8 implies the beliefs and
>> >opinions of someone else, and what effect the necklace has on their
>> >worth, may have something to do with it
>
>> heh. This is making more and more sense - as my parents are quite
>> Fundamentalist, and if they knew where my spirituality was leading me
>> they would be quite upset.
>
>Do they insist on their beliefs?
Yep. You can't believe how relieved my Mom was when she learned that
I'm going to a Midnight Xmas Eve service this year... and taking my
non-Jewish Jewish boyfriend. (it's his heritage, but not his
religion). They really NEED for us all to have the same beliefs.
>> >(this sun/moon conjunction also
>> >represents you though, and your romance perhaps attached to it).
>
>> Indeed. I saw a similar pendant on someone else in 1988, and wanted
>> one like it for 10 years before I finally bought it for myself.
>
>Your ideals then, yes (11).
Okay.
>> PL and VE are there, too, though I imagine that PL isn't considered in
>> Horary.
>> VE makes sense, doesn't it.
>
>Well, I consider it, because it is available now, the only reason things
>are not "used" in horary is because no one has been bold enough to
>update it and include them, and they weren't used when it was
>"invented."
It would take some time to see how they actually work in Horary,
rather than making assumptions based on past experiences with the
symbols, no?
I guess it's easier to just follow the rules... but not very creative.
(not that the rules of horary are easy to follow, at least for me who
doesn't know most of them... ;))
>But the conjunction of those 2 would reflect control needs
>and social issues revolving around the religious aspects of the querent.
Given the way you are using horary, yes. I'm saying that because it
seems to me, based on my limited experience, that you aren't using it
traditionally... I'd also add transformation and regeneration, given
PL. Not to mention that I've been having PL sq SU for a bit (Su 13:32
VI, MA 18VI), and PL recently went over a conj to my SA (8SG12) - so
PL is quite the theme for me, currently.
>> >I would
>> >also say that the question may be too late because the momentum is
>> >already on its way to resolving the issue, that is what I usually find
>> >that the 29 means.
>
>> Well, hopefully the momentum is toward me finding the darn thing!
>
>> >Or that something changes which makes the urgency of
>> >finding it--moot.
>> >Hope this is somewhat helpful.Ed
>
>> Yes, it is helpful.
>
>Maybe you wanted to lose it, at least for the moment to think about
>things?
Could be...
>> Thanks, Ed...
>
>Thank you for talking to me:-) Like I am a person!:-))
Different, huh? ;)
Well, I also feel that you are talking *to* me, rather than *at* me,
which I guess is how you feel about our interaction here, too.
I guess it was time for a new way to communicate (or perhaps just *to*
communicate!)
Edmond Wollmann
> >> >indigocoatl wrote:
> >> >> >Francois Carriere wrote:
> >> >> >> Just hope that the idea of the neckless being stolen isn't rue ;-(
> >> >> >> François
> >> >> >The chart is unusable because of 29 degrees Aries on the ascendant,
> >> >> >which means "too late" to ask the question, or that the issue has
> >> >> >advanced to a degree where the question is no longer relevant.
> >> >> Ed,
> >> >> So how would you interpret that in this instance, asking about a lost
> >> >> item?
> >> >My first caution is, that I ONLY look at charts such as this as an
> >> >OUTGROWTH of a client who has already had a natal consultation and
> >> >perhaps other work--so I would not be starting from scratch with the
> >> >life involved, but would have a clear picture of the entire momentum of
> >> >the individual. So I cannot possibly be laser accurate on what the case
> >> >is. So this is admittedly sketchy.
> >> Okay. That makes sense if you do it that way.
> >> >Secondly, at the cost of sounding repetitive, I have to reiterate, that
> >> >I don't believe astrology "causes" anything.
> >> Me neither.
> >Good!
> But it seems to be a good indicator of what's actually going on... ;)
Yes, actually going on with the persons beliefs about reality:-) it is a
mirror.
> >> >Therefore the 29 degrees
> >> >tells us more about the querent's state and issues regarding the loss,
> >This would mean your identity crisis at this time (Aries).
> Bingo.
> >> >rather than the loss. Because Mars rules the ascendant we would have to
> >> >look at its position (11 love recieved and friends). And because the
> >> >eclipse was occurring at the time of the question the issue may be long
> >> >standing or take very unexpected twists and turns. Mars is disposed of
> >> >by Neptune in 10, so your status perhaps with a friend or what the
> >> >necklace means (to both) may have something to do with its
> >> >dissapearance.
> >> Well, maybe we have to go with 11: hopes and dreams, because the
> >> necklace has absolutely nothing to do with any friend. I bought it for
> >> myself.
> >Social interaction is indicated by the 11th, so perhaps the religious
> >indicators from Sag means you are having a crisis about your identity
> >with regard to belief?
> Crisis is a bit strong of a word - but now that I'm writing this, it
> fits. It hasn't been a sudden crisis, though - rather a long accepting
> of where I *really* am, spiritually speaking.
You are shedding value judgments, which is what religion instills by
replacing spiritual spontenaeity with ritual and hierarchy.
> >One's religious beliefs says a lot about what
> >sort of social life they will have.
> heh.
> And my social circle is growing, too - after letting go of the church
> I had been going to for a while.
Yes, letting go of some structure in favor of trust.
> Interesting connections!
> >> Of course, it is a Jerusalem cross, and I'm finding that my
> >> relationship with Christianity is at a low ebb, so maybe it is
> >> indicating that. And it's been a twisty road, for sure.
> >Ahhh, I see now.
> >> >Some astrologers say they can find the item using this chart, I have
> >> >never found that to be the case.
> >> Okay. That's what I was looking for - where to find the necklace. But
> >> with 29AR rising, the question is moot.
> >> I sure was pissed when I saw that rising degree! It was a quite
> >> expensive necklace.
> >Well, maybe holding beliefs you don't really prefer is more expensive?
> Whew. Bingo, Ed. That's an amazing, right-on question.
> When I think about the internal stresses I've been living with the
> answer to it is obvious - YES.
Well, my view is, the creator is unconditional, because what creator
would create a being will free will and judgment, and intellect etc. and
then judge that being for using it?
> >> >> The necklace is stolen?
> >> >It very well could have been, but the Sag in 8 implies the beliefs and
> >> >opinions of someone else, and what effect the necklace has on their
> >> >worth, may have something to do with it
> >> heh. This is making more and more sense - as my parents are quite
> >> Fundamentalist, and if they knew where my spirituality was leading me
> >> they would be quite upset.
> >Do they insist on their beliefs?
> Yep. You can't believe how relieved my Mom was when she learned that
> I'm going to a Midnight Xmas Eve service this year... and taking my
> non-Jewish Jewish boyfriend. (it's his heritage, but not his
> religion). They really NEED for us all to have the same beliefs.
Why do they need that do you think?
> >> >(this sun/moon conjunction also
> >> >represents you though, and your romance perhaps attached to it).
> >> Indeed. I saw a similar pendant on someone else in 1988, and wanted
> >> one like it for 10 years before I finally bought it for myself.
> >Your ideals then, yes (11).
> Okay.
> >> PL and VE are there, too, though I imagine that PL isn't considered in
> >> Horary.
> >> VE makes sense, doesn't it.
> >Well, I consider it, because it is available now, the only reason things
> >are not "used" in horary is because no one has been bold enough to
> >update it and include them, and they weren't used when it was
> >"invented."
> It would take some time to see how they actually work in Horary,
> rather than making assumptions based on past experiences with the
> symbols, no?
Why would they work any differently? The archetypes apply in any method,
I believe.
> I guess it's easier to just follow the rules... but not very creative.
> (not that the rules of horary are easy to follow, at least for me who
> doesn't know most of them... ;))
The easy way out, is never the easy way out:-)
> >But the conjunction of those 2 would reflect control needs
> >and social issues revolving around the religious aspects of the querent.
> Given the way you are using horary, yes. I'm saying that because it
> seems to me, based on my limited experience, that you aren't using it
> traditionally... I'd also add transformation and regeneration, given
> PL. Not to mention that I've been having PL sq SU for a bit (Su 13:32
> VI, MA 18VI), and PL recently went over a conj to my SA (8SG12) - so
> PL is quite the theme for me, currently.
Yes, the transformation of perspective.
> >> >I would
> >> >also say that the question may be too late because the momentum is
> >> >already on its way to resolving the issue, that is what I usually find
> >> >that the 29 means.
> >> Well, hopefully the momentum is toward me finding the darn thing!
> >> >Or that something changes which makes the urgency of
> >> >finding it--moot.
> >> >Hope this is somewhat helpful.Ed
> >> Yes, it is helpful.
> >Maybe you wanted to lose it, at least for the moment to think about
> >things?
> Could be...
> >> Thanks, Ed...
> >Thank you for talking to me:-) Like I am a person!:-))
> Different, huh? ;)
Yes. Different than judging me.
> Well, I also feel that you are talking *to* me, rather than *at* me,
> which I guess is how you feel about our interaction here, too.
I have always been the same, I am here to serve--either by suggestions,
confrontation, reflection or just whatever. But it depends completely on
the type of energy put out towards me, what the other person is likely
to experience.
Thanks again.
> I guess it was time for a new way to communicate (or perhaps just *to*
> communicate!)
Yes, time for a transformation of perspective:-)
What's our name-the combined idea?
It can be generally referred to as any one of the names that
represent the overall collective consciousness within each and
every civilization. Thus for Sirius it would be Siskeen, and for us,
Shakana. For you it is the Christ consciousness. In general any
alignment with Arcturus is simply a representation of another
threshold and a doorway that you are going through. You will
find that in your cosmology your moon specifically represents
many of the ideas of your sub- and unconscious awareness now
coming to the surface. Also your Pluto alignment is generally
representative of the transformation across a threshold that you
previously would have considered to be the idea you call death-
but which now represents a transformation into a new type of life.
I understand the concept, but could you give us an example
of the threshold?
The threshold we are referring to is the transformation taking
place on your planet from third to fourth density. That is the
overall threshold. Every single symbol within your reality that has
any relationship to transformation is all generally a part of that.
The specifics are up to you to determine for yourselves, although
as we have said, the idea of your moon does to some degree repre-
sent the idea of your subconscious and unconscious awareness
coming to the surface. The idea of Pluto is the actual journey
involved across the threshold itself.
In this same archetypical manner you have described the myth
you call the crossing of the River Styx. This puts you in touch
with what you previously assumed to be the darker regions of
your consciousness. It is another way of saying that you enter the
blending of your positive and negative polarities, and therefore
allow yourselves, in the crossing of that threshold, to glean only
a positive effect out of the blending of the positive and the nega-
tive. This is why you have intuitively labeled Pluto's moon with
the same name as the ferryboat driver that drives you across the
mythological river Styx . . . Charon.
Bashar "Blueprint for Change"
indigocoatl
NEWS FLASH:
I found the necklace tonight - just where I'd looked for it several
times.
I guess I was ready to find it, or it was ready to be found... ;)
On Tue, 18 Dec 2001 22:34:47 GMT, Edmond Wollmann
<E...@astroconsulting.com> wrote:
I can agree with that, Ed - the part about value judgements.
I do think that there is good in religion, though - if for nothing
else handing down what other's experiences of the Divine have been
before, so folks aren't reduced to re-inventing the wheel.
>> >One's religious beliefs says a lot about what
>> >sort of social life they will have.
>
>> heh.
>> And my social circle is growing, too - after letting go of the church
>> I had been going to for a while.
>
>Yes, letting go of some structure in favor of trust.
Bingo again.
>> Interesting connections!
>
>> >> Of course, it is a Jerusalem cross, and I'm finding that my
>> >> relationship with Christianity is at a low ebb, so maybe it is
>> >> indicating that. And it's been a twisty road, for sure.
>
>> >Ahhh, I see now.
>
>> >> >Some astrologers say they can find the item using this chart, I have
>> >> >never found that to be the case.
>
>> >> Okay. That's what I was looking for - where to find the necklace. But
>> >> with 29AR rising, the question is moot.
>> >> I sure was pissed when I saw that rising degree! It was a quite
>> >> expensive necklace.
>
>> >Well, maybe holding beliefs you don't really prefer is more expensive?
>
>> Whew. Bingo, Ed. That's an amazing, right-on question.
>> When I think about the internal stresses I've been living with the
>> answer to it is obvious - YES.
>
>Well, my view is, the creator is unconditional, because what creator
>would create a being will free will and judgment, and intellect etc. and
>then judge that being for using it?
The arguments around this have gone on for centuries, and IMO will for
centuries to come.
It's an individual thing, in the end.
>> >> >> The necklace is stolen?
>
>> >> >It very well could have been, but the Sag in 8 implies the beliefs and
>> >> >opinions of someone else, and what effect the necklace has on their
>> >> >worth, may have something to do with it
>
>> >> heh. This is making more and more sense - as my parents are quite
>> >> Fundamentalist, and if they knew where my spirituality was leading me
>> >> they would be quite upset.
>
>> >Do they insist on their beliefs?
>
>> Yep. You can't believe how relieved my Mom was when she learned that
>> I'm going to a Midnight Xmas Eve service this year... and taking my
>> non-Jewish Jewish boyfriend. (it's his heritage, but not his
>> religion). They really NEED for us all to have the same beliefs.
>
>Why do they need that do you think?
They believe they are going to heaven, and they want all their loved
ones to be there with them. Makes sense, if one believes the promises
(and the teachings of the Wrath Of God...)
>> >> >(this sun/moon conjunction also
>> >> >represents you though, and your romance perhaps attached to it).
>
>> >> Indeed. I saw a similar pendant on someone else in 1988, and wanted
>> >> one like it for 10 years before I finally bought it for myself.
>
>> >Your ideals then, yes (11).
>
>> Okay.
>
>> >> PL and VE are there, too, though I imagine that PL isn't considered in
>> >> Horary.
>> >> VE makes sense, doesn't it.
>
>> >Well, I consider it, because it is available now, the only reason things
>> >are not "used" in horary is because no one has been bold enough to
>> >update it and include them, and they weren't used when it was
>> >"invented."
>
>> It would take some time to see how they actually work in Horary,
>> rather than making assumptions based on past experiences with the
>> symbols, no?
>
>Why would they work any differently? The archetypes apply in any method,
>I believe.
I don't know. But my point (loosely held, FWIW) is that if one is
already convinced that one knows everything about an archetype, one is
likely to miss the spontaneous insights available to the more open
mind. And how the Outers work in Horary is just such a place where
there isn't a guiding tradition.
Kind of like delineating the Centaurs by reading the mythology
associated with their names. Could be accurate, but in the long run
(in 2100) will it pan out?
>> I guess it's easier to just follow the rules... but not very creative.
>> (not that the rules of horary are easy to follow, at least for me who
>> doesn't know most of them... ;))
>
>The easy way out, is never the easy way out:-)
LOL. No kidding.
>> >But the conjunction of those 2 would reflect control needs
>> >and social issues revolving around the religious aspects of the querent.
>
>> Given the way you are using horary, yes. I'm saying that because it
>> seems to me, based on my limited experience, that you aren't using it
>> traditionally... I'd also add transformation and regeneration, given
>> PL. Not to mention that I've been having PL sq SU for a bit (Su 13:32
>> VI, MA 18VI), and PL recently went over a conj to my SA (8SG12) - so
>> PL is quite the theme for me, currently.
>
>Yes, the transformation of perspective.
And of attitude, and of physical reality (foundation work on my house,
among other things - SU,MA are in 2) etc, etc, etc
>> >> >I would
>> >> >also say that the question may be too late because the momentum is
>> >> >already on its way to resolving the issue, that is what I usually find
>> >> >that the 29 means.
>
>> >> Well, hopefully the momentum is toward me finding the darn thing!
>
>> >> >Or that something changes which makes the urgency of
>> >> >finding it--moot.
>> >> >Hope this is somewhat helpful.Ed
>
>> >> Yes, it is helpful.
>
>> >Maybe you wanted to lose it, at least for the moment to think about
>> >things?
>
>> Could be...
>
>> >> Thanks, Ed...
>
>> >Thank you for talking to me:-) Like I am a person!:-))
>
>> Different, huh? ;)
>
>Yes. Different than judging me.
Well, I think that we've all said things we regret from time to time.
>> Well, I also feel that you are talking *to* me, rather than *at* me,
>> which I guess is how you feel about our interaction here, too.
>
>I have always been the same, I am here to serve--either by suggestions,
>confrontation, reflection or just whatever. But it depends completely on
>the type of energy put out towards me, what the other person is likely
>to experience.
That's interesting, Ed.
I'm wondering why you cue off the other's energy, rather than sending
it back in a different form.
Creatively speaking, that is...
>Thanks again.
You're welcome.
Interesting, but too dense for my taste. The Virgo in me wants things
to be clear and simple. Or something like that. I dont' have the
patience for Bashar... ;)
Edmond Wollmann
> >> >> Thanks, Ed...
> >> >Thank you for talking to me:-) Like I am a person!:-))
> >> Different, huh? ;)
> >Yes. Different than judging me.
> Well, I think that we've all said things we regret from time to time.
> >> Well, I also feel that you are talking *to* me, rather than *at* me,
> >> which I guess is how you feel about our interaction here, too.
I post "lecture type posts" only to initiate conversation, it is the
way the replies come that determines the rest. Look at the abuse
heaped on the group, isn't it quite clear now? It is the way YOU
replied to me, that made the difference.
"Men at some time are masters of their fates:"The fault, dear Brutus,
is not in our stars, but in ourselves that we are underlings."
Shakespeare, Julius Caesar, Act 1: scene 2, 130
Spamster
Edmond Wollmann wrote:
> indig...@earthlink.net (indigocoatl) wrote in message news:<3c2021da...@news.earthlink.net>...
>
> > >> >> Thanks, Ed...
>
> > >> >Thank you for talking to me:-) Like I am a person!:-))
>
> > >> Different, huh? ;)
>
> > >Yes. Different than judging me.
>
> > Well, I think that we've all said things we regret from time to time.
>
> > >> Well, I also feel that you are talking *to* me, rather than *at* me,
> > >> which I guess is how you feel about our interaction here, too.
>
> I post "lecture type posts" only
Wrong. You post incoherent kookbabbling.
Mr. Sweetness & Light.
<5026a17e.0112...@posting.google.com>...
>indig...@earthlink.net (indigocoatl) wrote in message
news:<3c2021da...@news.earthlink.net>...
>
>> >> >> Thanks, Ed...
>
>> >> >Thank you for talking to me:-) Like I am a person!:-))
>
>> >> Different, huh? ;)
>
>> >Yes. Different than judging me.
>
>> Well, I think that we've all said things we regret from time to time.
>
>> >> Well, I also feel that you are talking *to* me, rather than *at* me,
>> >> which I guess is how you feel about our interaction here, too.
>
>I post "lecture type posts" only to initiate conversation, it is the
>way the replies come that determines the rest.
I agree, Mr. "She is the shitball" Wollmann.
>Look at the abuse
>heaped on the group, isn't it quite clear now? It is the way YOU
>replied to me, that made the difference.
It's the way you reply to questions you can't or won't answer that makes the
difference, nutcase. Still think Chang's doesn't exist, asswipe? Let's do
lunch. Your treat.
--
"The biggest spammer and abuser on the internet Cu...@tsbbearings.net"
- Wollmann showing how to make friends for life with a few kind words.
"The point punk, is that abusers like you will soon be removed
completely from the internet and placed in custody for your criminal
activities." - A comma-challenged Wollmann fucks up yet another prediction.
"So what does that make you? A stalker who stalks an asshole for 7
years now trying to convince others how bad he is?"
- Ed Wollmann admits he is an asshole!
"THANKS TO CUJO FLOODING MY SURVEY AND SOLICITING HIS FRIENDS TO DO THE
SAME, WHICH THEY DID FROM MULTIPLE ACCOUNTS, HE HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM
THIS SURVEY AND WILL FIND A PLACE OF...HONOR...ELSEWHERE IN THESE PAGES"
- John Dutka calmly admits to planning a Page of Hate for me.
Cujo - The Official Overseer of Kooks and Trolls in Alt.paranormal,
Alt.astrology, Alt.astrology.pro and Alt.astrology.metapsych
http://www.petitmorte.net/cujo/cujcert.jpg
Kook Stomper
> indig...@earthlink.net (indigocoatl) wrote in message news:<3c2021da...@news.earthlink.net>...
>
>
>>>>>>Thanks, Ed...
>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>Thank you for talking to me:-) Like I am a person!:-))
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>Different, huh? ;)
>>>>
>
>>>Yes. Different than judging me.
>>>
>
>
>>Well, I think that we've all said things we regret from time to time.
>>
>
>
>>>>Well, I also feel that you are talking *to* me, rather than *at* me,
>>>>which I guess is how you feel about our interaction here, too.
>>>>
>
> I post "lecture type posts" only to
be a total ASSHOLE!
indigocoatl
Wollmann) wrote:
>indig...@earthlink.net (indigocoatl) wrote in message news:<3c2021da...@news.earthlink.net>...
>
>> >> >> Thanks, Ed...
>
>> >> >Thank you for talking to me:-) Like I am a person!:-))
>
>> >> Different, huh? ;)
>
>> >Yes. Different than judging me.
>
>> Well, I think that we've all said things we regret from time to time.
>
>> >> Well, I also feel that you are talking *to* me, rather than *at* me,
>> >> which I guess is how you feel about our interaction here, too.
>
>I post "lecture type posts" only to initiate conversation, it is the
>way the replies come that determines the rest.
I see.
But I ask you - out of all the "lecture type posts" you've posted, how
many have resulted in conversation, rather than abusive responses.
I guess I'd gently suggest that if you want a different response, that
you try a different tack.. ;)
> Look at the abuse
>heaped on the group, isn't it quite clear now? It is the way YOU
>replied to me, that made the difference.
Yes, but it was as important the way you responded to my initial post,
Ed. You offered information and your opinion in a way that invited
discussion, as well.
I've seen a different side of you with this. I appreciate your
openness to responding differently than you have in the past.
Julie