most massive galaxies

[Wolfgang Rave]

hello there,

I am searching for a list of the most massive galaxies and their central black holes, both with mass measurements/estimations. Is there anything like this available on the net? In particular I'm searching for a correlation between the galaxy and the SMBH masses (roughly M(Gal)/M(SMBH) ~ n x 100 with some valuable dispersion from n x 10 to n x 1000). I stumbled over the Tully-Fisher, the Faber-Jackson and the M-sigma relations, but they do not give an easy (linear?) correlation of the masses in question.
In addition, I checked wikipedia for the cD ("giant elliptical galaxies") and the SMBHs, but the mass data/estimations especially for the gal's are frequently missing. A list of the most massive SMBHs is readily available https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_massive_black_holes but no mass data for the galaxies around it.

Any help will be gratefully acknowledged.

thanx in advance, Wolfgang.

[Dlzc]

On Wednesday, January 3, 2024 at 3:32:07 AM UTC-6, Wolfgang Rave wrote:
> ... In particular I'm searching for a correlation between the galaxy and the

> SMBH masses (roughly M(Gal)/M(SMBH) ~ n x 100 with some valuable
> dispersion from n x 10 to n x 1000).

The black hole ate its disk, or the disk was nibbled away in passing by / through other galaxies. Remember gravity is not a force, the induced friction is the force that alters momentum in space. And black holes can only divert / boost in one direction. There may be no such simple relation, only scatter.

David A. Smith

[Wolfgang Rave]

Dlzc schrieb am Mittwoch, 3. Januar 2024 um 14:32:31 UTC+1:

> The black hole ate its disk, or the disk was nibbled away in passing by / through other galaxies. Remember gravity is not a force, the induced friction is the force that alters momentum in space. And black holes can only divert / boost in one direction. There may be no such simple relation, only scatter.
>
> David A. Smith

hi David,

Sure there's a (great?) scatter, and there are many possibilities around "galactic cannibalism" ;-) and all, that follows from it - but nonetheless there IS a somewhat rough relation between a galactic mass and that of the central SMBH. A "normal" galaxy rotates up to n x 10 klyr around its SMBH at the center like a rigid body (Milky Way: Diameter ~86 klyr, rigid body rotation 0...30 klyr), with a velocity dispersion that is linearly related to the SMBH's mass (Tully-Fisher, Faber-Jackson and/or M-sigma relations). Even with some scattering I'd like to study the relation M(Gal)/M(SMBH) with some 100 Examples (I'd take some 1000 as well) from the "high end" (large masses) and look, to where this may lead. Any ideas where to find data like that?

sincerely, Wolfgang.

[David Dalton]

On Jan 3, 2024, Wolfgang Rave wrote
(in article<38145f1a-d8b2-41d1...@googlegroups.com>):

You could also try the moderated group sci.astro.research .

--
David Dalton dal...@nfld.com https://www.nfld.com/~dalton (home page)
https://www.nfld.com/~dalton/dtales.html Salmon on the Thorns (mystic page)
"And if I shed a tear I won’t cage it; I won't fear love;
And if I feel a rage I won’t deny it; I won't fear love" (Sarah McLachlan)

[Martin Brown]

Here is a paper on one way of estimating the masses in active and
Seyfert galaxies from observation of spectral lines from MNRAS.
Looks fairly plausible to me.

https://academic.oup.com/mnras/article/487/3/3404/5511907

Not really my field though. There may be lists try searching in SIMBAD
or ADS abstracts and cross your fingers for a bit of good luck.

--
Martin Brown