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Mysterious hot spots observed in Betelgeuse
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Yousuf Khan
Apr 26, 2013, 8:31:11 PM4/26/13
to
On a side note, one of my goals in life is to have a life long enough to
see Betelgeuse explode as a supernova. It must be spectacular to be able
to see an astronomical object besides the Sun during the daylight hours!
Betelgeuse may be the only star close enough to become bright enough to
see in the daylight. I don't know if anything like this was ever seen on
Earth before, but if it was, then it must've been the dinosaurs or the
amoebas who saw it back then. If it was the dinos, then they must've
been simply puzzled by the good nocturnal hunting conditions that were
suddenly available. If it was the amoebas & algaes, then they must've
just been surprised by how easy it was to photosynthesize at night. :)
> The hot spots appear on opposite sides of Betelgeuse, separated by about half the star�s visual diameter. They have a temperature of about 6700��8500� Fahrenheit (3700��4700� Celsius), much higher than the average temperature of the star�s radio surface (some 1700� F [930� C]) and even higher than the 6000� F (3300� C) visual surface. The arc of cool gas lies almost 4.5 million miles (7.4 billion kilometers) away from the star � about the same as Pluto�s farthest distance from the Sun. Scientists estimate the gas has a mass almost two-thirds that of the Earth and a temperature of only �190� F (�123� C).
Mysterious hot spots observed in Betelgeuse - Astronomy Magazine
http://www.astronomy.com/~/link.aspx?_id=64968632-cc24-4312-986f-ae413109c481
Yousuf Khan
see Betelgeuse explode as a supernova. It must be spectacular to be able
to see an astronomical object besides the Sun during the daylight hours!
Betelgeuse may be the only star close enough to become bright enough to
see in the daylight. I don't know if anything like this was ever seen on
Earth before, but if it was, then it must've been the dinosaurs or the
amoebas who saw it back then. If it was the dinos, then they must've
been simply puzzled by the good nocturnal hunting conditions that were
suddenly available. If it was the amoebas & algaes, then they must've
just been surprised by how easy it was to photosynthesize at night. :)
> The hot spots appear on opposite sides of Betelgeuse, separated by about half the star�s visual diameter. They have a temperature of about 6700��8500� Fahrenheit (3700��4700� Celsius), much higher than the average temperature of the star�s radio surface (some 1700� F [930� C]) and even higher than the 6000� F (3300� C) visual surface. The arc of cool gas lies almost 4.5 million miles (7.4 billion kilometers) away from the star � about the same as Pluto�s farthest distance from the Sun. Scientists estimate the gas has a mass almost two-thirds that of the Earth and a temperature of only �190� F (�123� C).
Mysterious hot spots observed in Betelgeuse - Astronomy Magazine
http://www.astronomy.com/~/link.aspx?_id=64968632-cc24-4312-986f-ae413109c481
Yousuf Khan
Mark Sieving
Apr 26, 2013, 9:39:42 PM4/26/13
to
On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 20:31:11 -0400, Yousuf Khan
<bbb...@spammenot.yahoo.com> wrote:
>On a side note, one of my goals in life is to have a life long enough to
>see Betelgeuse explode as a supernova. It must be spectacular to be able
>to see an astronomical object besides the Sun during the daylight hours!
>Betelgeuse may be the only star close enough to become bright enough to
>see in the daylight. I don't know if anything like this was ever seen on
>Earth before, but if it was, then it must've been the dinosaurs or the
>amoebas who saw it back then. If it was the dinos, then they must've
>been simply puzzled by the good nocturnal hunting conditions that were
>suddenly available. If it was the amoebas & algaes, then they must've
>just been surprised by how easy it was to photosynthesize at night. :)
The 1054 supernova that produced the Crab Nebula was visible during
<bbb...@spammenot.yahoo.com> wrote:
>On a side note, one of my goals in life is to have a life long enough to
>see Betelgeuse explode as a supernova. It must be spectacular to be able
>to see an astronomical object besides the Sun during the daylight hours!
>Betelgeuse may be the only star close enough to become bright enough to
>see in the daylight. I don't know if anything like this was ever seen on
>Earth before, but if it was, then it must've been the dinosaurs or the
>amoebas who saw it back then. If it was the dinos, then they must've
>been simply puzzled by the good nocturnal hunting conditions that were
>suddenly available. If it was the amoebas & algaes, then they must've
>just been surprised by how easy it was to photosynthesize at night. :)
the day for about three weeks. Betelgeuse is about one tenth the
distance of the Crab Nebula, so if it's a similar supernova it would
be 100 times brighter.
bil...@microsoft.com
Apr 26, 2013, 9:46:08 PM4/26/13
to
bye bye to life on earth
Sam Wormley
Apr 26, 2013, 11:18:34 PM4/26/13
to
On 4/26/13 7:31 PM, Yousuf Khan wrote:
> On a side note, one of my goals in life is to have a life long enough to
> see Betelgeuse explode as a supernova. It must be spectacular to be able
> to see an astronomical object besides the Sun during the daylight hours!
> Betelgeuse may be the only star close enough to become bright enough to
> see in the daylight. I don't know if anything like this was ever seen on
> Earth before, but if it was, then it must've been the dinosaurs or the
> amoebas who saw it back then. If it was the dinos, then they must've
> been simply puzzled by the good nocturnal hunting conditions that were
> suddenly available. If it was the amoebas & algaes, then they must've
> just been surprised by how easy it was to photosynthesize at night. :)
>
>> The hot spots appear on opposite sides of Betelgeuse, separated by
>> about half the star’s visual diameter. They have a temperature of
> On a side note, one of my goals in life is to have a life long enough to
> see Betelgeuse explode as a supernova. It must be spectacular to be able
> to see an astronomical object besides the Sun during the daylight hours!
> Betelgeuse may be the only star close enough to become bright enough to
> see in the daylight. I don't know if anything like this was ever seen on
> Earth before, but if it was, then it must've been the dinosaurs or the
> amoebas who saw it back then. If it was the dinos, then they must've
> been simply puzzled by the good nocturnal hunting conditions that were
> suddenly available. If it was the amoebas & algaes, then they must've
> just been surprised by how easy it was to photosynthesize at night. :)
>
>> The hot spots appear on opposite sides of Betelgeuse, separated by
>> about 6700°–8500° Fahrenheit (3700°–4700° Celsius), much higher than
>> the average temperature of the star’s radio surface (some 1700° F
>> [930° C]) and even higher than the 6000° F (3300° C) visual surface.
>> The arc of cool gas lies almost 4.5 million miles (7.4 billion
>> kilometers) away from the star — about the same as Pluto’s farthest
>> distance from the Sun. Scientists estimate the gas has a mass almost
>> two-thirds that of the Earth and a temperature of only –190° F (–123° C).
>
> Mysterious hot spots observed in Betelgeuse - Astronomy Magazine
> http://www.astronomy.com/~/link.aspx?_id=64968632-cc24-4312-986f-ae413109c481
>
>
> Yousuf Khan
You don't count Kepler's Supernova?
> Mysterious hot spots observed in Betelgeuse - Astronomy Magazine
> http://www.astronomy.com/~/link.aspx?_id=64968632-cc24-4312-986f-ae413109c481
>
>
> Yousuf Khan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kepler's_Supernova
Sam Wormley
Apr 26, 2013, 11:19:51 PM4/26/13
to
Sam Wormley
Apr 26, 2013, 11:25:47 PM4/26/13
to
> If Betelgeuse goes supernova there is a pretty good chance you can say
> bye bye to life on earth
>
See: http://stars.astro.illinois.edu/sow/betelgeuse.html
> bye bye to life on earth
>
> If it were to explode today, it would become as bright as a gibbous
> Moon, would cast strong shadows on the ground, and would be seen
> easily in full daylight. Birthplace was far away. The star's motion
> shows it to be a runaway member of the Orion OB1 association,
> particularly the subgroup that involves the stars up and to the right
> of the Belt.
bil...@microsoft.com
Apr 26, 2013, 11:44:44 PM4/26/13
to
On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 22:19:51 -0500, Sam Wormley <swor...@gmail.com>
wrote:
so you think that we are too far away for a GRB to have any effect on
us? you may want to check your information about gamma ray burst
wrote:
us? you may want to check your information about gamma ray burst
Sam Wormley
Apr 26, 2013, 11:54:38 PM4/26/13
to
in gamma radiation. Furthermore Betelgeuse mass is too low.
Yousuf Khan
Apr 27, 2013, 1:34:29 PM4/27/13
to
On 26/04/2013 9:46 PM, bil...@microsoft.com wrote:
> If Betelgeuse goes supernova there is a pretty good chance you can say
> bye bye to life on earth
Only if the GRB it produces is pointed towards us. That means that its
> If Betelgeuse goes supernova there is a pretty good chance you can say
> bye bye to life on earth
polar jets need to be pointed towards us within 2 degrees. The most
recent study done shows that its polar jets are pointed away from us by
about 20 degrees, so we're safe.
Yousuf Khan
Poutnik
Apr 27, 2013, 12:56:16 PM4/27/13
to
Yousuf Khan posted Sat, 27 Apr 2013 13:34:29 -0400
Even sourcee weaker then Sun
can have unpleasant high energy spectrum part.
--
Poutnik
Sam Wormley
Apr 27, 2013, 5:02:26 PM4/27/13
to
x-ray and hard UV.
Poutnik
Apr 27, 2013, 5:06:11 PM4/27/13
to
Sam Wormley posted Sat, 27 Apr 2013 16:02:26 -0500
The Sun eruptions and solar winds have influence as well.
--
Poutnik
Yousuf Khan
Apr 27, 2013, 6:01:35 PM4/27/13
to
On 27/04/2013 5:06 PM, Poutnik wrote:
>
> Sam Wormley posted Sat, 27 Apr 2013 16:02:26 -0500
>
> Sam Wormley posted Sat, 27 Apr 2013 16:02:26 -0500
>> Ozone and oxygen in the earth's atmosphere blocks most gamma,
>> x-ray and hard UV.
>
> I do know that, the question is, if that is enough.
>
> The Sun eruptions and solar winds have influence as well.
The only thing that can overpower the Earth's Ozone layer from space is
>> x-ray and hard UV.
>
> I do know that, the question is, if that is enough.
>
> The Sun eruptions and solar winds have influence as well.
a close GRB pointed straight at us, i.e. it's polar jets are pointed to
within 2 degrees of our solar system. The GRB also has to be somewhere
less than 3000-13000 light-years from us, and directly aimed at us to
have any effect on us. Betelgeuse is 600 light-years away, and it will
go supernova, but it may not become a GRB. Even if it does become a GRB,
it still has to be pointed towards us, and it doesn't look like its
polls are.
Yousuf Khan
bil...@microsoft.com
Apr 27, 2013, 6:22:20 PM4/27/13
to
On Sat, 27 Apr 2013 16:02:26 -0500, Sam Wormley <swor...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
>>>
wrote:
>
>>>
>> What about expected radiation spectrum ?
>>
>> Even sourcee weaker then Sun
>> can have unpleasant high energy spectrum part.
>>
>>
>
> Ozone and oxygen in the earth's atmosphere blocks most gamma,
> x-ray and hard UV.
UV yes but the gamma will only burn off the ozone
>>
>> Even sourcee weaker then Sun
>> can have unpleasant high energy spectrum part.
>>
>>
>
> Ozone and oxygen in the earth's atmosphere blocks most gamma,
> x-ray and hard UV.
bil...@microsoft.com
Apr 27, 2013, 6:24:04 PM4/27/13
to
On Sat, 27 Apr 2013 18:01:35 -0400, Yousuf Khan
<bbb...@spammenot.yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>The only thing that can overpower the Earth's Ozone layer from space is
>a close GRB pointed straight at us, i.e. it's polar jets are pointed to
>within 2 degrees of our solar system. The GRB also has to be somewhere
>less than 3000-13000 light-years from us, and directly aimed at us to
>have any effect on us. Betelgeuse is 600 light-years away, and it will
>go supernova, but it may not become a GRB. Even if it does become a GRB,
>it still has to be pointed towards us, and it doesn't look like its
>polls are.
>
> Yousuf Khan
Close? is over 1000 LY considered close a GRB at that distance would
<bbb...@spammenot.yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>The only thing that can overpower the Earth's Ozone layer from space is
>a close GRB pointed straight at us, i.e. it's polar jets are pointed to
>within 2 degrees of our solar system. The GRB also has to be somewhere
>less than 3000-13000 light-years from us, and directly aimed at us to
>have any effect on us. Betelgeuse is 600 light-years away, and it will
>go supernova, but it may not become a GRB. Even if it does become a GRB,
>it still has to be pointed towards us, and it doesn't look like its
>polls are.
>
> Yousuf Khan
totally burn off the ozone
Sam Wormley
Apr 27, 2013, 7:20:16 PM4/27/13
to
> http://www.geo.oregonstate.edu/classes/geo444_544/LECTURES/lecture3.pdf
dlzc
Apr 27, 2013, 8:29:54 PM4/27/13
to
Dear bil...:
On Saturday, April 27, 2013 3:22:20 PM UTC-7, bil...@microsoft.com wrote:
...
If we get hit with a GRB, we will have plenty of ozone. We will have ozone and NOx, the skies will turn dark brown as our entire facing atmosphere will have the worst case of "photochemical smog" Earth may ever have seen.
David A. Smith
On Saturday, April 27, 2013 3:22:20 PM UTC-7, bil...@microsoft.com wrote:
...
> UV yes but the gamma will only burn off the ozone
The particle accelerator folks have to scrub ozone in and around their machines. They do this, because *all* ionizing radiation makes ozone.
If we get hit with a GRB, we will have plenty of ozone. We will have ozone and NOx, the skies will turn dark brown as our entire facing atmosphere will have the worst case of "photochemical smog" Earth may ever have seen.
David A. Smith
Sam Wormley
Apr 27, 2013, 8:47:16 PM4/27/13
to
ray burst that can harm us.
Sam Wormley
Apr 27, 2013, 8:51:23 PM4/27/13
to
> If Betelgeuse goes supernova there is a pretty good chance you can say
> bye bye to life on earth
>
Will Betelgeuse Go Supernova in ...
> bye bye to life on earth
>
> http://space.about.com/b/2011/01/24/will-betelgeuse-go-supernova-in-2012.htm
> If you believe the reports floating around in the internet, the
> exploding star will appear as a second Sun in the day time, and
> illuminate the night. And, worse yet, the sheer energy from the blast
> will have devastating effects on the Earth, particularly our
> atmosphere!
>
> Uhh, no.
>
> While an exact distance to Betelgeuse is difficult to assess (late
> stage red giants have tenuous outer envelopes, thwarting traditional
> attempts to measure distance accurately), our best estimate is that
> it is about 600 light-years from Earth. This is actually quite close
> in galactic terms (our Sun is about 8 light-minutes from Earth), so I
> am not totally shocked how the blogosphere has crescendoed to near
> panic levels over this.
>
> But instead of panicking, let's do a little back-of-the-envelope
> calculation. Typically Type II supernova (a supernova resulting from
> the collapse of a massive star) of this size have a peak luminosity
> (integrated over all wavelengths) approaching about 1 billion times
> the power of our Sun. Quite impressive. It sounds like a lot of
> energy is being generated very quickly and it is. So why am I not
> worried?
>
> Because the apparent luminosity (effectively the amount of energy
> that arrives at Earth per second) falls off with the square of the
> distance. In Laymen's terms, if our Sun were ten times further away
> from us, its apparent luminosity would be 100 times less.
>
> So given the 600 light-year distance to Betelgeuse (about 40 million
> times further away from us than our Sun), the apparent peak
> luminosity of the supernova explosion will be roughly 0.00006% of our
> Sun's apparent luminosity. Clearly that is such a small percentage
> that the additional flux will have zero effect on our planet.
>
Yousuf Khan
Apr 28, 2013, 1:31:10 AM4/28/13
to
Some really powerful GRB's that are less than 13000 LY might also be
dangerous, at the outer limits.
Yousuf Khan
Jan Panteltje
Apr 28, 2013, 4:01:15 AM4/28/13
to
On a sunny day (Sat, 27 Apr 2013 18:20:16 -0500) it happened Sam Wormley
<swor...@gmail.com> wrote in
<F96dnaG1cbutwOHM...@giganews.com>:
AHA!!!
WE SHOULD MAKE AS MUCH POLLUTION A POSSIBLE TO PROTECT OURSELVES.
<swor...@gmail.com> wrote in
<F96dnaG1cbutwOHM...@giganews.com>:
WE SHOULD MAKE AS MUCH POLLUTION A POSSIBLE TO PROTECT OURSELVES.
Yousuf Khan
Apr 28, 2013, 9:13:34 AM4/28/13
to
to reduce acid rain by environmentalists as the reason for global
warming nowadays. The sulphuric acid in the air was considered a global
cooler!
Yousuf Khan
Dr J R Stockton
Apr 28, 2013, 12:28:16 PM4/28/13
to
In sci.astro message <517b1c26$1...@news.bnb-lp.com>, Fri, 26 Apr 2013
20:31:11, Yousuf Khan <bbb...@spammenot.yahoo.com> posted:
>On a side note, one of my goals in life is to have a life long enough
>to see Betelgeuse explode as a supernova. It must be spectacular to be
>able to see an astronomical object besides the Sun during the daylight
>hours!
Rumour has it that, outside the monsoon season, one can often easily
enough see the astronomical Moon in full daylight; and I gather that
some people can see Venus too.
--
(c) John Stockton, nr London, UK. Mail via homepage. Turnpike v6.05 MIME.
Web <http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/> - FAQqish topics, acronyms and links;
Astro stuff via astron-1.htm, gravity0.htm ; quotings.htm, pascal.htm, etc.
20:31:11, Yousuf Khan <bbb...@spammenot.yahoo.com> posted:
>On a side note, one of my goals in life is to have a life long enough
>to see Betelgeuse explode as a supernova. It must be spectacular to be
>able to see an astronomical object besides the Sun during the daylight
>hours!
enough see the astronomical Moon in full daylight; and I gather that
some people can see Venus too.
--
(c) John Stockton, nr London, UK. Mail via homepage. Turnpike v6.05 MIME.
Web <http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/> - FAQqish topics, acronyms and links;
Astro stuff via astron-1.htm, gravity0.htm ; quotings.htm, pascal.htm, etc.
Sam Wormley
Apr 28, 2013, 6:51:32 PM4/28/13
to
On 4/28/13 11:28 AM, Dr J R Stockton wrote:
> In sci.astro message <517b1c26$1...@news.bnb-lp.com>, Fri, 26 Apr 2013
> 20:31:11, Yousuf Khan <bbb...@spammenot.yahoo.com> posted:
>
>> On a side note, one of my goals in life is to have a life long enough
>> to see Betelgeuse explode as a supernova. It must be spectacular to be
>> able to see an astronomical object besides the Sun during the daylight
>> hours!
>
> Rumour has it that, outside the monsoon season, one can often easily
> enough see the astronomical Moon in full daylight; and I gather that
> some people can see Venus too.
>
10 surprising space objects to see in the daytime sky
> In sci.astro message <517b1c26$1...@news.bnb-lp.com>, Fri, 26 Apr 2013
> 20:31:11, Yousuf Khan <bbb...@spammenot.yahoo.com> posted:
>
>> On a side note, one of my goals in life is to have a life long enough
>> to see Betelgeuse explode as a supernova. It must be spectacular to be
>> able to see an astronomical object besides the Sun during the daylight
>> hours!
>
> Rumour has it that, outside the monsoon season, one can often easily
> enough see the astronomical Moon in full daylight; and I gather that
> some people can see Venus too.
>
> http://earthsky.org/space/10-surprising-things-to-see-in-the-daytime-sky
Martin Brown
Apr 29, 2013, 2:08:17 AM4/29/13
to
On 27/04/2013 01:31, Yousuf Khan wrote:
> On a side note, one of my goals in life is to have a life long enough to
> see Betelgeuse explode as a supernova. It must be spectacular to be able
> to see an astronomical object besides the Sun during the daylight hours!
> Betelgeuse may be the only star close enough to become bright enough to
> see in the daylight. I don't know if anything like this was ever seen on
> Earth before, but if it was, then it must've been the dinosaurs or the
> amoebas who saw it back then. If it was the dinos, then they must've
> been simply puzzled by the good nocturnal hunting conditions that were
> suddenly available. If it was the amoebas & algaes, then they must've
> just been surprised by how easy it was to photosynthesize at night. :)
The last one seen in daytime from Earth as far as we know was the
> On a side note, one of my goals in life is to have a life long enough to
> see Betelgeuse explode as a supernova. It must be spectacular to be able
> to see an astronomical object besides the Sun during the daylight hours!
> Betelgeuse may be the only star close enough to become bright enough to
> see in the daylight. I don't know if anything like this was ever seen on
> Earth before, but if it was, then it must've been the dinosaurs or the
> amoebas who saw it back then. If it was the dinos, then they must've
> been simply puzzled by the good nocturnal hunting conditions that were
> suddenly available. If it was the amoebas & algaes, then they must've
> just been surprised by how easy it was to photosynthesize at night. :)
supernova of the star that gave rise to the Crab Nebula in 1054 as
recorded by the Chinese astronomers and natives of South America. eg
http://messier.seds.org/more/m001_sn.html
The star that gave rise to the Cass A SNR would have been visible but
for the enormous amount of dust and gas in the galactic plane. It was
probably just about seen seredipitously by Flamsteed.
http://messier.seds.org/more/m001_sn.html
>
>> The hot spots appear on opposite sides of Betelgeuse, separated by
>> about half the star�s visual diameter. They have a temperature of
>> about 6700��8500� Fahrenheit (3700��4700� Celsius), much higher than
>> the average temperature of the star�s radio surface (some 1700� F
>> [930� C]) and even higher than the 6000� F (3300� C) visual surface.
>> The arc of cool gas lies almost 4.5 million miles (7.4 billion
>> kilometers) away from the star � about the same as Pluto�s farthest
>> distance from the Sun. Scientists estimate the gas has a mass almost
>> two-thirds that of the Earth and a temperature of only �190� F (�123� C).
>
> Mysterious hot spots observed in Betelgeuse - Astronomy Magazine
> http://www.astronomy.com/~/link.aspx?_id=64968632-cc24-4312-986f-ae413109c481
>
>
> Yousuf Khan
They might be newer higher resolution observations but it is old news:
>> The hot spots appear on opposite sides of Betelgeuse, separated by
>> about half the star�s visual diameter. They have a temperature of
>> about 6700��8500� Fahrenheit (3700��4700� Celsius), much higher than
>> the average temperature of the star�s radio surface (some 1700� F
>> [930� C]) and even higher than the 6000� F (3300� C) visual surface.
>> The arc of cool gas lies almost 4.5 million miles (7.4 billion
>> kilometers) away from the star � about the same as Pluto�s farthest
>> distance from the Sun. Scientists estimate the gas has a mass almost
>> two-thirds that of the Earth and a temperature of only �190� F (�123� C).
>
> Mysterious hot spots observed in Betelgeuse - Astronomy Magazine
> http://www.astronomy.com/~/link.aspx?_id=64968632-cc24-4312-986f-ae413109c481
>
>
> Yousuf Khan
http://www.universetoday.com/42361/betelgeuse/
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
Martin Brown
Apr 29, 2013, 2:15:20 AM4/29/13
to
On 28/04/2013 17:28, Dr J R Stockton wrote:
> In sci.astro message <517b1c26$1...@news.bnb-lp.com>, Fri, 26 Apr 2013
> 20:31:11, Yousuf Khan <bbb...@spammenot.yahoo.com> posted:
>
>> On a side note, one of my goals in life is to have a life long enough
>> to see Betelgeuse explode as a supernova. It must be spectacular to be
>> able to see an astronomical object besides the Sun during the daylight
>> hours!
>
> Rumour has it that, outside the monsoon season, one can often easily
> enough see the astronomical Moon in full daylight; and I gather that
> some people can see Venus too.
Most people can see Venus at or near maximum elongation in the daytime.
> In sci.astro message <517b1c26$1...@news.bnb-lp.com>, Fri, 26 Apr 2013
> 20:31:11, Yousuf Khan <bbb...@spammenot.yahoo.com> posted:
>
>> On a side note, one of my goals in life is to have a life long enough
>> to see Betelgeuse explode as a supernova. It must be spectacular to be
>> able to see an astronomical object besides the Sun during the daylight
>> hours!
>
> Rumour has it that, outside the monsoon season, one can often easily
> enough see the astronomical Moon in full daylight; and I gather that
> some people can see Venus too.
The trick is to stand in the shadow of a large building so that your eye
pupil is not a pinpoint and to focus at infinity. This latter trick is
rather hard and it helps to have an aircraft trail or moon nearby.
Once you see Venus you wonder how you could miss it, but if you lose
concentration for a moment you can easily lose it again until you know
exactly where to look and adjust your focus. As students we sometimes
used to start a small crowd looking at the fixed bright light in the
sky. Meandering off quietly after a self sustaining crowd had developed.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
Poutnik
Apr 29, 2013, 3:04:11 AM4/29/13
to
Martin Brown posted Mon, 29 Apr 2013 07:15:20 +0100
>
> Most people can see Venus at or near maximum elongation in the daytime.
> The trick is to stand in the shadow of a large building so that your eye
> pupil is not a pinpoint and to focus at infinity. This latter trick is
> rather hard and it helps to have an aircraft trail or moon nearby.
>
> Once you see Venus you wonder how you could miss it, but if you lose
> concentration for a moment you can easily lose it again until you know
> exactly where to look and adjust your focus. As students we sometimes
> used to start a small crowd looking at the fixed bright light in the
> sky. Meandering off quietly after a self sustaining crowd had developed.
Note that SN1604 - Kepler's Supernova
was by intensity near at middle between Venus and Jupiter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kepler%27s_Supernova
--
Poutnik
Martin Brown
Apr 29, 2013, 5:21:49 AM4/29/13
to
On 29/04/2013 08:04, Poutnik wrote:
>
> Martin Brown posted Mon, 29 Apr 2013 07:15:20 +0100
>
>>
>> Most people can see Venus at or near maximum elongation in the daytime.
>> The trick is to stand in the shadow of a large building so that your eye
>> pupil is not a pinpoint and to focus at infinity. This latter trick is
>> rather hard and it helps to have an aircraft trail or moon nearby.
>>
>> Once you see Venus you wonder how you could miss it, but if you lose
>> concentration for a moment you can easily lose it again until you know
>> exactly where to look and adjust your focus. As students we sometimes
>> used to start a small crowd looking at the fixed bright light in the
>> sky. Meandering off quietly after a self sustaining crowd had developed.
>
> It would may help to track Morning Star until full daylight.....
You can do it at my latitude even at midday. The trick really is looking
>
> Martin Brown posted Mon, 29 Apr 2013 07:15:20 +0100
>
>>
>> Most people can see Venus at or near maximum elongation in the daytime.
>> The trick is to stand in the shadow of a large building so that your eye
>> pupil is not a pinpoint and to focus at infinity. This latter trick is
>> rather hard and it helps to have an aircraft trail or moon nearby.
>>
>> Once you see Venus you wonder how you could miss it, but if you lose
>> concentration for a moment you can easily lose it again until you know
>> exactly where to look and adjust your focus. As students we sometimes
>> used to start a small crowd looking at the fixed bright light in the
>> sky. Meandering off quietly after a self sustaining crowd had developed.
>
> It would may help to track Morning Star until full daylight.....
in *exactly* the right place and focussing at infinity. Standing in a
gap between two tall buildings is one way to do this.
>
> Note that SN1604 - Kepler's Supernova
> was by intensity near at middle between Venus and Jupiter.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kepler%27s_Supernova
AFAIK no-one at that time recorded seeing it in daylight although it was
> Note that SN1604 - Kepler's Supernova
> was by intensity near at middle between Venus and Jupiter.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kepler%27s_Supernova
theoretically possible to do so.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
Poutnik
Apr 29, 2013, 11:35:56 AM4/29/13
to
Martin Brown posted Mon, 29 Apr 2013 10:21:49 +0100
> >
> > It would may help to track Morning Star until full daylight.....
>
> You can do it at my latitude even at midday. The trick really is looking
> in *exactly* the right place and focussing at infinity. Standing in a
> gap between two tall buildings is one way to do this.
even if you know Right ascension / declination or azimute/elevation,
if you do not have handy some tools/devices for that.
> >
> > Note that SN1604 - Kepler's Supernova
> > was by intensity near at middle between Venus and Jupiter.
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kepler%27s_Supernova
>
> AFAIK no-one at that time recorded seeing it in daylight although it was
> theoretically possible to do so.
--
Poutnik
Martin Brown
Apr 29, 2013, 3:16:31 PM4/29/13
to
On 29/04/2013 16:35, Poutnik wrote:
>
> Martin Brown posted Mon, 29 Apr 2013 10:21:49 +0100
>
>>>
>>> It would may help to track Morning Star until full daylight.....
>>
>> You can do it at my latitude even at midday. The trick really is looking
>> in *exactly* the right place and focussing at infinity. Standing in a
>> gap between two tall buildings is one way to do this.
>
> The point is it is not easy for ordinary man to know exact position,
> even if you know Right ascension / declination or azimute/elevation,
> if you do not have handy some tools/devices for that.
Used to be true but these days there are any number of apps for GPS
>
> Martin Brown posted Mon, 29 Apr 2013 10:21:49 +0100
>
>>>
>>> It would may help to track Morning Star until full daylight.....
>>
>> You can do it at my latitude even at midday. The trick really is looking
>> in *exactly* the right place and focussing at infinity. Standing in a
>> gap between two tall buildings is one way to do this.
>
> The point is it is not easy for ordinary man to know exact position,
> even if you know Right ascension / declination or azimute/elevation,
> if you do not have handy some tools/devices for that.
enabled smart phones and tablets that can do it with relative ease.
The trick we used was knowing exactly where to look having pre computed
it using the edge of a building and a time. Once you have seen it you
pass it on to a small crowd and then quietly move away. No mention of
what it is - works better that way particularly if you get one or two
highly suggestible people who can see it and point out marvellous
imaginings to the others.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
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