What is Fastar ?
Tony
used SCT before, but hoping this will be a good scope for New Mexico
skies and some astrophotography. Have been hearing about "fastar
compatible". What exactly is a fastar setup? Do Meade scopes also
have the same option available. Thanks!
Tony
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Rockett Crawford
Fastar is a CCD camera setup put out by SBIG. It replaces the
secondary mirror in an SCT with the a small pixel camera (237)
so the camera hangs in front of the telescope rather than behind it.
The advantages to this setup are a very fast effective f/ratio
(1.9) and very wide field imaging which is much easier for the
beginner and beneficial for those interested in areas such as
asteroid hunting.
http://www.sbig.com/sbwhtmls/online.htm
Rockett Crawford
Tony wrote:
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Capella's Observatory (CCD Imaging)
http://web2.airmail.net/capella
Rod Mollise
>Fastar is a CCD camera setup put out by SBIG. It replaces the
>secondary mirror in an SCT with the a small pixel camera (237)
>so the camera hangs in front of the telescope rather than behind it.
>
>
Hi Rockett;
All quite true, but you might also mention that it requires one of Celestron's
Fastar equipped scopes to work (which I'm sure this recent scope is). In this
setup, you remove the secondary (it's designed to come out easily) and replace
it with an optical element, a corrector lens, basically. The camera, as Rockett
says, then is attached onto the secondary housing as well. All of Celestron's 8
inch scopes are currently Fastar compatible AFAIK. Meade does not currently
offer a system like this.
Peace,
Rod Mollise
Mobile Astronomical Society
http://members.aol.com/RMOLLISE/index7.html
The Home of _From City Lights to Deep Space_:
Rod's Guidebook for the _Urban_ Deep Sky NUT!!
*********************************************************
Rockett Crawford
Rod Mollise wrote:
> >
> >Fastar is a CCD camera setup put out by SBIG. It replaces the
> >secondary mirror in an SCT with the a small pixel camera (237)
> >so the camera hangs in front of the telescope rather than behind it.
> >
> >
>
> Hi Rockett;
>
> All quite true, but you might also mention that it requires one of Celestron's
>
Sorry, I just assumed that since he mentioned he had a Celestar 8 deluxe,
that this wouldn't be an issue, but looking back at the post, I didn't note
his question about Meades.
Thanks Rod.
Rockett
Al
Meade scopes are not Fastar compatible. Fastar is an optical device which
is sold by Celestron for use with two of their scopes...the newer 8" and 14"
SCTs. Depending on the scope, the Fastar lens will cost about $400 or more.
To use it you need to remove the secondary mirror (very easy to remove) and
replace with the Fastar lens assembly. By doing this, you have changed the
optical system (on the 14") from 3910mm focal length @ F/11 to 747mm @
F/2.1. The system is designed to be used with a PixCel 237 camera but can
also be used with other cameras (Starlight Xpress).
The advantages of imaging with Fastar are: *Very wide-field views. Easy to
locate targets. *Super fast imaging at F/2.1. This gives you the advantage
of imaging at 1/25th the exposure time over an F/11 optical system. In most
cases, you can image without guiding.
Al
"Tony" <tbon...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8jiup9$pjq$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Phillip
Rod Mollise <rmol...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000630172333...@ng-cc1.aol.com...
> >
> >Fastar is a CCD camera setup put out by SBIG. It replaces the
> >secondary mirror in an SCT with the a small pixel camera (237)
> >so the camera hangs in front of the telescope rather than behind it.
> >
> >
>
> Hi Rockett;
>
> All quite true, but you might also mention that it requires one of
Celestron's
this
> setup, you remove the secondary (it's designed to come out easily) and
replace
> it with an optical element, a corrector lens, basically. The camera, as
Rockett
> says, then is attached onto the secondary housing as well. All of
Celestron's 8
> inch scopes are currently Fastar compatible AFAIK. Meade does not
currently
> offer a system like this.
As a former FASTAR user I can testify these statements. FASTAR is great for
beginners because it doesn't require any guiding due to it's short (400 mm)
focal length and fast exposures. Most deep sky objects can be obtained in
30 seconds and the software allows them to be automatically added together
to approach the results you would get with a single longer exposure. To
make use of FASTAR, you need a FASTAR compatible scope, which yours is, you
also need the corrective optics and a camera designed to be used with it.
The SBIG ST-237 and a couple of the StarliteXpress cameras can be used with
FASTAR. For the ST-237 there is also available a color filter wheel so that
tri-color images can be made. If you want to see what can really be done
with FASTAR, take a look at Chris Anderson's FASTAR web page at
http://www.darklightimagery.net/celestial.html
I also have a few at my web page: http://members.xoom.com/ross128/images.htm
Phillip
Tony
Thanks for the fast feedback and information. Sounds like a really neat
setup for imaging. I'm now even more pleased that I bought this scope as I
am looking forward to getting into imaging down the road. First, I'm going
to concentrate on learning my way around the sky ...
cheers!
Tony
--
When replying, please replace NOSPAM with RANGER in E-Mail address.
"Al" <aoccB...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:ht875.181$cR2....@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Raycash
There are photos of the Fastar setup on both their pages as well as mine:
http://members.aol.com/C8Fastar/1stccds.htm
> If you want to see what can really be done
>with FASTAR, take a look at Chris Anderson's FASTAR web page at
>http://www.darklightimagery.net/celestial.html
>
>I also have a few at my web page: http://members.xoom.com/ross128/images.htm
--Ray Cash
How to Build a Dobsonian Telescope:
http://members.aol.com/sfsidewalk/dobplans.htm
My Deep-Sky Page:
http://members.aol.com/anonglxy/deepsky.htm
How to Build a 13" "Travel Scope"
http://members.aol.com/radcash/travelscope.htm
Bob Holzer
there are any negatives associated with it. I would be using it with a GP-DX
mount with SS2K-PC and the forthcoming MX7C Starlight-xpress camera.
Are there any special focus issues? Since you just can't pop in a parfocal
eyepiece how do get close?
How do you align your goto? With your finder? or is changing out the
secondary/fastar doable in the dark?
Thanks guys and I was very impressed by the images on your sites, great
work.
Bob
Phillip
Bob Holzer <hol...@atl.mediaone.net> wrote in message
news:0Ee75.537$Ca4....@typhoon.southeast.rr.com...
> I am thinking about purchasing a C8 w/ Fastar but would like to hear if
> there are any negatives associated with it. I would be using it with a
GP-DX
> mount with SS2K-PC and the forthcoming MX7C Starlight-xpress camera.
>
> Are there any special focus issues? Since you just can't pop in a parfocal
> eyepiece how do get close?
>
> How do you align your goto? With your finder? or is changing out the
> secondary/fastar doable in the dark?
Changing into the FASTAR configuration is easy, even in the dark. You would
align your digital setting circles before changing to FASTAR and as far as
focusing, you put the software into focus mode and it takes a frame every
second or so and you can see on the screen what the focus looks like. There
is also a number indicating the brightest pixel on the screen, you want that
number to be as hight as possible, when it is, then you are in focus.
Phillip
Al
Fastar conversion allows very wide field images. This has both an up and a
downside. The up side is ease of finding your target object. All you need
to do is point the telescope in the direction of the object and it will
usually be found within the FOV. The system is ideal for imaging very large
celestial objects such as M31.
For the very same reason, this system is a poor choice for imaging small
objects such as planetary nebula and planets as the image is too small.
I use a Starlight Xpress MX5C with my 14", Fastar equipped scope. The
camera will not come to focus without an adapter which is available from
Starlight Xpress. Fortunately, the adapter is inexpensive and easy to use.
Aligning GoTo is no big problem. Accuracy here is really not necessary as
the FOV is so large.
Al
"Bob Holzer" <hol...@atl.mediaone.net> wrote in message
news:0Ee75.537$Ca4....@typhoon.southeast.rr.com...
> I am thinking about purchasing a C8 w/ Fastar but would like to hear if
> there are any negatives associated with it. I would be using it with a
GP-DX
> mount with SS2K-PC and the forthcoming MX7C Starlight-xpress camera.
>
> Are there any special focus issues? Since you just can't pop in a parfocal
> eyepiece how do get close?
>
> How do you align your goto? With your finder? or is changing out the
> secondary/fastar doable in the dark?
>
Raycash
>Fastar conversion allows very wide field images.
I agree with this statement. Most deep-sky objects are tiny, and at f/2 a 30' x
40' imaging field is wasted on them... So, you keep to the larger objects, like
M17, M16, etc. For smaller objects, you have the option to put an f/3 or f/6.3
reducer in the back. Of course, now you must image for MUCH longer (10x, I
think at f/6.3), but your image scale is larger. I have had preliminary
success at f/6. Another advantage to this approach is you have a better "pixel
to arc-second" ratio--sometimes... At f/6.3 binned 2 x 2, the ratio is
something like 2.4; theoritcally quite ideal.
Don't worry about focusing or pointing a Fastar set-up: The software will help
you attain perfect focus. Aiming can be done with a finder and charts, or
DSC's--again, the software will help you precisely center the object.
I DO wish I had automatic guiding ability, like the ST-7 offers. At f/2, 60
seconds seems to be the maximum time I can expose for without guiding--this
with a precisely aligned G11. Even though one can "stack and accumulate" these
images, longer exposures result in better images.
ed_an...@my-deja.com
Tony <tbon...@my-deja.com> wrote:
What exactly is a fastar setup?
> Tony
It is a setup to avoid.
YP
chadc...@my-deja.com
that the faststar scopes are sold with but will a spur gear c8 work. I
have a friend who has a faststar and have been thinking about trading
tubes with him if my mount will still work. I would like to try the
stv with the faststar too. Any comments? oh and why are the 9.5 and
11" celestrons not compatable?
Chad
Rod Mollise
>that the faststar scopes are sold with but will a spur gear c8 work. I
>have a friend who has a faststar and have been thinking about trading
>tubes with him if my mount will still
Hi:
"undguided" means different things to different folks, but for me it's being
able to go 30 seconds-1 minute, enough time to do CCD exposures using track and
stack, etc., to build up a final image. Only you can answer whether a
particular drive is good enough. Some spur gear drives are actually quite good
PE wise. But they do tend to bounce around unpredictably. If this isn't too
extreme--if the error excursions are relatively small and few, the short focal
length of a scope in Faststar mode should cover up a multitude of sins. Why no
9/11 Faststar? Dunno. I assumed with the 9 it had something to with the longer
native focal lenght of the primary. I expected we would see Faststar 11s...but
they have apparently not appeared, so I'm not sure.
Al
a better alternative? I think that, if you're going to knock something,
that's okay...but give us an explanation.
Al
<ed_an...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8jktud$3f1$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <8jiup9$pjq$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> Tony <tbon...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> What exactly is a fastar setup?
> > Tony
>
> It is a setup to avoid.
>
> YP
>
>
Phillip
> "undguided" means different things to different folks, but for me it's
being
> able to go 30 seconds-1 minute, enough time to do CCD exposures using
track and
> stack, etc., to build up a final image. Only you can answer whether a
> particular drive is good enough. Some spur gear drives are actually quite
good
> PE wise. But they do tend to bounce around unpredictably. If this isn't
too
> extreme--if the error excursions are relatively small and few, the short
focal
> length of a scope in Faststar mode should cover up a multitude of sins.
Why no
> 9/11 Faststar? Dunno. I assumed with the 9 it had something to with the
longer
> native focal lenght of the primary. I expected we would see Faststar
11s...but
> they have apparently not appeared, so I'm not sure.
Why no 11's? Because Celestron doesn't care about FASTAR anymore. I
wouldn't be surprised if they quit making FASTAR optics in the near future
just because they scrapped every other good thing they've had of late. And
I don't even want to get into the problem with the PEC on the Celestar
Deluxe....
To answer your question. Unguided in this context means letting the drive
track the object without issuing any corrections via the hand controller. I
know the drive on the Celestar Deluxe that I used was very good. It was a
worm gear drive and so the only thing you really had to worry about was
polar alignment and periodic error, which was something like +/- 7
arcseconds on mine once I 'fixed' it. Due to FASTAR's short focal length,
it is more forgiving of tracking errors. If the amplituded of your mounts
errors and relativley low it would probably work fine.
Get yourself a 12 mm double-crosshair illuminated reticle eyepeice, place a
star in the center box and watch it for about 10 minutes. If the star moves
no more than 1.5 box-widths away then it would do OK for FASTAR.
Phillip
Al
By using Fastar, you can capture enough light in a very short exposure to
image a dim DSO without guiding. As a matter of fact, the exposure could be
about 1/25th the length at F/2.1 that it would be at F/11. The shorter
exposure time translates into less chance of faulty tracking or lack of
guiding to spoil your image. With many of today's CCD cameras, you can take
multiple images and stack them to further reduce the need of guiding. In my
opinion, this is the best thing since chicken soup.
Al
<chadc...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8jku3a$3fk$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> When you say "unguided" what does that mean. I don't know the mounts
> that the faststar scopes are sold with but will a spur gear c8 work. I
> have a friend who has a faststar and have been thinking about trading
> tubes with him if my mount will still work. I would like to try the
> stv with the faststar too. Any comments? oh and why are the 9.5 and
> 11" celestrons not compatable?
> Chad
>
>
Phillip
<ed_an...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8jktud$3f1$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <8jiup9$pjq$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> Tony <tbon...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> What exactly is a fastar setup?
> > Tony
>
> It is a setup to avoid.
Why do you say that? Have you ever used it? Please give a reason for your
statement.
Phillip
Bob Holzer
collimated switching back and forth?
Also, I assume with fastar that having the primary collimated is the most
important, so can you adjust the primary or are you at the mercy of
Celestron to receive a good one?
Bob
"Bob Holzer" <hol...@atl.mediaone.net> wrote in message
news:0Ee75.537$Ca4....@typhoon.southeast.rr.com...
> I am thinking about purchasing a C8 w/ Fastar but would like to hear if
> there are any negatives associated with it. I would be using it with a
GP-DX
> mount with SS2K-PC and the forthcoming MX7C Starlight-xpress camera.
>
> Are there any special focus issues? Since you just can't pop in a parfocal
> eyepiece how do get close?
>
> How do you align your goto? With your finder? or is changing out the
> secondary/fastar doable in the dark?
>
> Thanks guys and I was very impressed by the images on your sites, great
> work.
>
> Bob
>
>
>
>
> "Tony" <tbon...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:8jiup9$pjq$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > Have a Celestar 8 deluxe with JMI encoders, etc. enroute. Have never
> > used SCT before, but hoping this will be a good scope for New Mexico
> > skies and some astrophotography. Have been hearing about "fastar
> > compatible". What exactly is a fastar setup? Do Meade scopes also
> > have the same option available. Thanks!
> >
> > Tony
> >
> >
Bob Holzer
<ed_an...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8jktud$3f1$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <8jiup9$pjq$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> Tony <tbon...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> What exactly is a fastar setup?
> > Tony
>
> It is a setup to avoid.
>
> YP
tree sky
wrote:
>
>Why no 11's? Because Celestron doesn't care about FASTAR anymore. I
>wouldn't be surprised if they quit making FASTAR optics in the near future
>just because they scrapped every other good thing they've had of late. And
>I don't even want to get into the problem with the PEC on the Celestar
>Deluxe....
I'm afraid this is true. I can't even find any reference to it on
Celestron's web site.
It appears to be an orphan.
I hope someone else starts manufacturing the Fastar lens. Hopefully
for a lot less than the $400 U.S. that the Celestron unit cost.
Anyone know what the Fastar lens assembly does? Can it be home-built
from off the shelf lenses?
Al
visual does not effect collimation. This is true...only some of the time.
If you're careful, it could be all of the time. There is no adjustment to
the primary...to the best of my knowledge.
Al
"Bob Holzer" <hol...@atl.mediaone.net> wrote in message
news:8wp75.108$X54....@news1.southeast.rr.com...
RKBerta
wide FOV by CCD standards at a very fast f1.95 speed. The
seondary is easily and quickly replaced with a fastar optic
assembly. They are both held in a bayonet mount that allows
for quick change out...even in the dark without any tools.
The colimation is very well maintained when the secondary
is replaced later.
focusing is done via the lap top screen which shows both
the image and a numerical indication of saturation which is
a direct indication of sharpest focus.
Finding the objects is done with the finder scope at the
base level although I much prefer to use my Digital Setting
Circles to do this for me.
The FOV is .5 x .7 degrees which is about the same as a
28mm plossl eyepiece on the same scope. The fast f stop
means you can image 10 times faster than at f6.3 or 25
times faster than at f 10. While most Messier objects can
be captured in just a few seconds...a longer image like the
Horse Head Nebula takes 4 minute...this would take 40
minutes at f6.3 so the improvement in output is obvious.
While I much prefer the wide FOV for most of my imaging, if
you want higher magnification it is simply a matter of
putting the same camera at the back of the scope at f3.3,
f6.3 or f10 or with a barlow for planetary.
You can see some of my images an a writeup at my club's web
site....
http://zennla.com/sfaa/images/
but for the latest writup and excellent images by a master
imager check Ron Wodaski's web site. He has a great review
of the system with pictures of the various components and
description. Don't have his web site handy but if you go to
one of his many frequent posts on the News Group you will
see alink to his site.
* Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is Beautiful
Chuck Olson
I have a CG14 but it doesn't show any Fastar logo. The secondary
external structure looks like it is not replaceable, so I would
guess it is definitely not Fastar. Is it possible to convert it
to Fastar configuration?
Chuck
Al <aoccB...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:Bwl75.1048$cR2....@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> Every system has negatives and Fastar is no exception. First
of all, the
> Fastar conversion allows very wide field images. This has both
an up and a
> downside. The up side is ease of finding your target object.
All you need
> to do is point the telescope in the direction of the object and
it will
> usually be found within the FOV. The system is ideal for
imaging very large
> celestial objects such as M31.
> For the very same reason, this system is a poor choice for
imaging small
> objects such as planetary nebula and planets as the image is
too small.
>
> I use a Starlight Xpress MX5C with my 14", Fastar equipped
scope. The
> camera will not come to focus without an adapter which is
available from
> Starlight Xpress. Fortunately, the adapter is inexpensive and
easy to use.
>
> Aligning GoTo is no big problem. Accuracy here is really not
necessary as
> the FOV is so large.
>
> Al
> "Bob Holzer" <hol...@atl.mediaone.net> wrote in message
Al
I never considered this question, so I can't provide a ready answer.
Suggest that you call Celestron Tech Support (1 800 237 0600) and ask there.
It would be nice if you post an answer to question here when you get it.
Al
"Chuck Olson" <chucko...@home.com> wrote in message
news:v5T75.24031$i5.2...@news1.frmt1.sfba.home.com...
Jouke de Ruiter
Does anybody have experience with the tracking accuracy? I hear the tracking
accuracy is not the greatest. Given the reduced exposure times of Fastar
this could be a good combination?
regards,
Jouke de Ruiter
RKBerta wrote in message <0662cc28...@usw-ex0108-062.remarq.com>...
Rod Mollise
>Does anybody have experience with the tracking accuracy? I hear the tracking
>accuracy is not the greatest. Given the reduced exposure times of Fastar
>this could be a good combination?
>
Hi:
Sorry, no. The NS8, unfortunately, does not have the Faststar secondary
assembly. :-(