Used Meade DS 2102 $ ?
Ken S. Tucker
Had a star party last night. A Meade DS2102 was left over.
It comes with a CCD and has auto tracking. We checked out
the system this AM, needs a bit of cleaning (iso-alcohol), it
test tracks as expected, the "Autostar" is nifty.
What's it's fair market value?
Ken
Quadibloc
> Had a star party last night. A Meade DS2102 was left over.
Unable to parse statement unambiguously.
A "star party", by default, is interpreted to mean: an occasion where
a number of amateur astronomers gather to use their telescopes to
observe the night sky.
There is no default implication that telescopes will be offered for
sale or purchased at that event, although at major star parties that
run for more than one day, sometimes there are dealer tables.
However, if it is needful to determine the "fair market value"of the
telescope, this implies there is someone to give the money to.
Shouldn't you just give the telescope back to him, and let him try to
sell it himself if he wants to? Or is the question that the owner of
the telescope is currently unknown, but storing it until he is located
is not practical?
John Savard
rmollise
I don't post here often any more for obvious reasons (for one thing
anything said is lost in the crazy-ass spam)...but I gotta ask...
A TELESCOPE WAS "LEFT OVER" (SOMEONE LEFT IT?) AT A STAR PARTY AND
YOU'RE GONNA SELL IT?! Please tell me I'm not understanding you
correctly. LOL
Chris L Peterson
<rmol...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>A TELESCOPE WAS "LEFT OVER" (SOMEONE LEFT IT?) AT A STAR PARTY AND
>YOU'RE GONNA SELL IT?! Please tell me I'm not understanding you
>correctly. LOL
I figure that this was one of those star parties where 50 people go in,
but only 49 come out. Somewhere, behind a bush perhaps, the raccoons are
having a feast. Hmmmmm... astronomers.
Up here in the mountains, there are always a few go missing after a big
star party. That's where we get some of our best equipment.
_________________________________________________
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
Martin R. Howell
> needs a bit of cleaning (iso-alcohol),
If you are referring to the scope's mirrors, don't rush into cleaning them.
Others will doubtlessly soon tell you why.
--
Martin R. Howell
John Nichols
"Chris L Peterson" <c...@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote in message
news:ttpqa5lr6obo3pi41...@4ax.com...
Ken S. Tucker
rmollise wrote:
> On Sep 13, 2:50 pm, "Ken S. Tucker" <dynam...@vianet.on.ca> wrote:
> > Need more advice guys.
> > Had a star party last night. A Meade DS2102 was left over.
> > It comes with a CCD and has auto tracking. We checked out
> > the system this AM, needs a bit of cleaning (iso-alcohol), it
> > test tracks as expected, the "Autostar" is nifty.
> > What's it's fair market value?
> > Ken
>
> I don't post here often any more for obvious reasons (for one thing
> anything said is lost in the crazy-ass spam)...but I gotta ask...
My question was clear.
A boyfriend of ours left the tely as a gift, but with all due
respect, what is the value of said gift?
I ask cuz, I(we) need to exceed gift value to him, in the next
party.
Ken
William Hamblen
You can get a new one for $469.
I'd guess about half that for a used one if you have all the pieces.
Bud
Martin Brown
> On Sun, 13 Sep 2009 14:32:30 -0700 (PDT), rmollise
> <rmol...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> A TELESCOPE WAS "LEFT OVER" (SOMEONE LEFT IT?) AT A STAR PARTY AND
>> YOU'RE GONNA SELL IT?! Please tell me I'm not understanding you
>> correctly. LOL
>
> I figure that this was one of those star parties where 50 people go in,
> but only 49 come out. Somewhere, behind a bush perhaps, the raccoons are
> having a feast. Hmmmmm... astronomers.
>
> Up here in the mountains, there are always a few go missing after a big
> star party. That's where we get some of our best equipment.
Did they fall or were they pushed?
Regards,
Martin Brown
Chris L Peterson
<|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Did they fall or were they pushed?
Shhhhh!
wsne...@hotmail.com
> rmollise wrote:
> > On Sep 13, 2:50 pm, "Ken S. Tucker" <dynam...@vianet.on.ca> wrote:
> > > Need more advice guys.
> > > Had a star party last night. A Meade DS2102 was left over.
> > > It comes with a CCD and has auto tracking. We checked out
> > > the system this AM, needs a bit of cleaning (iso-alcohol), it
> > > test tracks as expected, the "Autostar" is nifty.
> > > What's it's fair market value?
> > > Ken
>
> > I don't post here often any more for obvious reasons (for one thing
> > anything said is lost in the crazy-ass spam)...but I gotta ask...
>
> My question was clear.
The question at the end was clear, but the earlier part that said:
"Had a star party last night. A Meade DS2102 was left over."
needed clarification. After most star parties it might not be unusual
to find lost gloves, flashlights, adapters, power cords or even the
occasional eyepiece, but an ENTIRE telescope?
> A boyfriend of ours left the tely as a gift, but with all due
> respect, what is the value of said gift?
> I ask cuz, I(we) need to exceed gift value to him, in the next
> party.
Why?
Quadibloc
> Why?
Now, now. It is not nice to question the ancient custom of the
potlatch.
John Savard
rmollise
>
> My question was clear.
> A boyfriend of ours left the tely as a gift, but with all due
> respect, what is the value of said gift?
> I ask cuz, I(we) need to exceed gift value to him, in the next
> party.
> Ken
Yep. Clear as mud. LOL
Ken S. Tucker
He has a lovely - well treed - lot up the street, he would rather
leave his scope at our place for $100, and pretty much use it
when he wants which is fine with us if I can store it outside?
We have good East sky exposure, see Starview photo's if you
want at this link,
http://physics.trak4.com/
Everybody loves a well treed lot except backyard astronomers.
It's a DS2102 in very good condition, complete with accessories,
102mm (4") refractor with goto autostar finder, 800mm FL, nice.
I see now our problem is taking responsibilty for the care of the
instrument, weather, theft, and extending the control to inside the
house as weather turns cold.
Regards
Ken
Martin R. Howell
> It's a DS2102 in very good condition, complete with accessories,
> 102mm (4") refractor
Which is the number 1 reason not to attempt to clean the scope's mirrors as
I suggested not to do earlier. LOL
Sorry, for my not being aware the scope is not a reflector. I have owned
nothing but Meade reflectors and made the mistake of guessing that would be
the scope type you have come across. I was only trying to help.
--
Martin R. Howell
joni...@aol.com
>
> Everybody loves a well treed lot except backyard astronomers.
> It's a DS2102 in very good condition, complete with accessories,
> 102mm (4") refractor with goto autostar finder, 800mm FL, nice.
> I see now our problem is taking responsibilty for the care of the
> instrument, weather, theft, and extending the control to inside the
> house as weather turns cold.
> Regards
> Ken
My personal thinking is that leaving it outside would be a mistake
even a mild climate, the electronics is poorly sealed, contacts and/or
components would corrode rather quickly and soon the rig will be out
of commission. I have seen a couple of these 102mm F/8's, they have a
lot of plastic so care is needed to avoid damaging them.
Jon
wsne...@hotmail.com
>
> Everybody loves a well treed lot except backyard astronomers.
> It's a DS2102 in very good condition, complete with accessories,
> 102mm (4") refractor with goto autostar finder, 800mm FL, nice.
> I see now our problem is taking responsibilty for the care of the
> instrument, weather, theft, and extending the control to inside the
> house as weather turns cold.
> Regards
Couldn't he just bring the telescope to your lot when he wants to
observe?
Ken S. Tucker
> Martin R. Howell
As you serious astronomers can tell, I'm new to owning and using
higher end equipment, I'm a Tasco 60mm dude from 1970, though
just acquired a 4.5" Newtonian reflector on loan for a $50 deposit,
(from an early star party).
That said we won't go cleaning optical lenses (including dew) unless
we design it as a planned mission.
Ken
Ken S. Tucker
We have a modest home, but we've made room for it here.
Yesterday we spliced some 50' cables to put the DS2102
on complete remote control outside fed to our TV.
We're planning on setting wood blocks into the ground to
insert the tripod into.
I'd perfer to leave it out protected by garbage bags, because
I (we) want to avoid dew formation when we bring it in from
the cold.
We'll try it and see how things go. Our 60mm sits out all year
and it fine.
Ken
Martin R. Howell
Hats off to you! I also still have a 60mm Tasco and it continues to get
some use. I like to say that it takes a larger scope to make one really
appreciate their smaller scope. I wouldn't part with my 60mm Tasco.
--
Martin R. Howell
joni...@aol.com
I suspect your Tasco has no electronics but even so, I am reluctant to
leave optics outside. Condensation/moisture can build up underneath
any sort of covering. I believe that people who store telescopes in
unheated places typically provide a source of heat, often a low
wattage light bulb, to keep things dry.
Avoiding dew formation when bringing in a scope from the cold is
relatively straightforward, just it sealed in that plastic bag until
it warms up.
YMMV
Jon
Ken S. Tucker
> Martin R. Howell
I ran a few science numbers to compare a 60mm to a 100mm (4"),
correct me if I'm wrong, figures are approx.
The 100mm gathers (10/6)^2 ~ 2.8x more light.
5 magnitudes is 100x brightness (2.5/per magnitude), so a 100mm
gives a bit better than a magnitude improvement.
The 100mm gives 60% more resolution.
Here's the rub, a 60mm - in good seeing conditions, is a good as a
100mm - in average seeing conditions.
I've set-up (3 minutes) the 60mm in our office, when it's 0F outside
and got beautiful steady bright images (even threw double pane),
that would probably be equivalent to an average summer evening
that a 100mm would provide.
Scintillation messes with resolution, and slight sky glow messes
with the magnitude.
Those dry cold winter nights are great if you can sight through a
window, and freeze your wee bits.
Ken
Ken S. Tucker
joni...@aol.com
Ken: Your numbers look right, a 4 inch will go about a magnitude
deeper and resolve details that are about 6/10's the size... The
difference should be quite obvious at the eyepiece, I find that 4
inches is good compromise, big enough that it leaves me satisfied but
still compact enough that it only takes a moment to setup and I can
take it with me.
As far as comparing the 102 to the 60mm, the seeing affects the views
as you increase the magnification, 50/x inch on a good night with a
60mm should be relatively easy, that would be 120x, around here I find
I can work at even more with my 60mm, often 170x-200x. I have to say
I can't imagine that you could be getting "sharp" views, say splitting
the double-double or even Castor, through a double paned window...
Jon
Ken S. Tucker
Hi Jon, thanks also for your comments on telescope care earlier.
When you use high powers 50x or more, I guess you have an EQ
mount for your 60mm?
Ken
joni...@aol.com
Ken:
The scope in question is a 60mm Asahi-Pentax from the 1960's, it has
near perfect optics and very solid ALT-AZ mount with geared tracking
on both axises. The mount is stable enough, the focuser smooth and
precise enough that I can focus at 150x-200x without any vibration or
disturbance... I have scopes with both ALT-AZ and EQ mounts but my
preference is for alt-az mounting because it allows for more
comfortable viewing and easy operation and over the years I have
gotten quite proficient manual tracking, at times hand tracking with
some of my larger scopes at 800x or more even near the Zenith.
In my view, the single most important thing about a mount is not
whether it tracks or has GOTO but rather how stable it is. Give me a
mount that doesn't vibrate when I touch the scope to focus and I am a
happy camper.
(There is an interesting story about this 60mm scope. I searched the
local Craigslist for a telescope and up came a moving sale with just
that single word. I responded and was told that it turned out the
scope was broken so the seller wanted to give it to me. I was quite
sure it would be a waste of time but I felt out of courtesy I needed
to make the 10 mile trip to pick it up. I had no idea what I was
getting until I opened the wooden box and saw the Asahi-Pentax name
plate. I felt guilty, gave the kind couple the contents of my wallet
which was only about $20 and drove away in amazement. The scope
needed some minor adjustments but it has turned out to be a wonderful
performer, the best 60mm I have ever seen and I find it gives better
high magnification views than my William Optics 66mm ED/APO.)
Oh well, time to finish cleaning up the olde desk.
jon
Ken S. Tucker
joni...@aol.com wrote:
> On Sep 16, 1:54 pm, "Ken S. Tucker" <dynam...@vianet.on.ca> wrote:
...
> > Hi Jon, thanks also for your comments on telescope care earlier.
> > When you use high powers 50x or more, I guess you have an EQ
> > mount for your 60mm?
> > Ken
>
> Ken:
> The scope in question is a 60mm Asahi-Pentax from the 1960's, it has
> near perfect optics and very solid ALT-AZ mount with geared tracking
> on both axises. The mount is stable enough, the focuser smooth and
> precise enough that I can focus at 150x-200x without any vibration or
> disturbance... I have scopes with both ALT-AZ and EQ mounts but my
> preference is for alt-az mounting because it allows for more
> comfortable viewing and easy operation and over the years I have
> gotten quite proficient manual tracking, at times hand tracking with
> some of my larger scopes at 800x or more even near the Zenith.
>
> In my view, the single most important thing about a mount is not
> whether it tracks or has GOTO but rather how stable it is. Give me a
> mount that doesn't vibrate when I touch the scope to focus and I am a
> happy camper.
A few nights back, we put a CCD on the DS2102, and targeted a
skycrane's lights (10pm, 5 miles away), with image to TV.
The CCD needs very good focus, and it was difficult to do, by my
eye the crane's lights are about a match-head apart at arm's length,
more or less, and lights were spread across the TV barely in.
(By coincidence, while we were observing and calibrating the guys
started rotating the crane, that was funny, we didn't now what was
happening until we binoc'd it).
Next we imaged Jupiter, and the moon distances were about 2/3's
of the TV screen width, perhaps 200x.
I'm thinking it's better to express magnification by field of view.
Using a 60 deg Field of View, and the sin or tan of 1 deg is 1/60,
then a mag of 1 is calibrated, 2 x mag gives a FoV of 30 deg and
so forth, then a 60x mag gives ~ 1 deg FoV.
A 1/8" match width at 25" away is 1/200 , (= 1/8 / 25), giving a
FoV of 18' arc.
Now we can discuss vibration, for example, touching the focus
may cause the image to oscillate 1/6 part through the FoV and is
3' arc. Using that formula, we can calibrate induced vibration, at
least in working terms.
In another thread, is a discussion of mounts, and 'steadiness' is
usually subjective, but maybe 'steadiness' can be quantified.
Regards
Ken
joni...@aol.com
When people quantify the steadiness of a mount, they usually talk in
terms of "damping times", ie the time required for the mount to settle
down. This is normally a few seconds. Actual quantification is
difficult because there are other factors that enter into the
equation. In my experience, a solid mount, a good focuser and a
steady hand with a light touch can provide "real time" focusing, free
from vibration.
Jon