cave astrola scopes
Searr
advertised anywhere. Does this company still exist? Does anybody know where
these products might be available, or if they have a website? Also, does anyone
have any of their own opinions on these things? Grateful for anybody's help.
Appreciatively
Mark
Se...@aol.com
RMOLLISE
Hi Mark:
Unfortunately, Cave is long gone. They made some fine telescope optics in the
60s and into the 70s (with some really good mirrors being done by the legendary
Alikka Herring (sp?)). Otherwise they were your typical 60s style Newtonians
for the most part. Heavy and not too overly steady mounts and simple AC drives.
The company also made some classical Cassegrains and some short focal length
Newts. At one time I had a pretty good 8"f7 Cave (back in the 70s). It was a
handful to lug around, though, and at first opporutunity I sold it to purchase
one of those new-fangled C8s! Do I regret selling it? Not really! But as folks
around here will tell you I'm a diehard SCT freak! :-)
Caves do come up on the used market frequently, but I certainly advise you to
try before you buy as optical quality can indeed vary tremendously on these
scopes (later ones being worse).
There were several reasons for Cave's demise, but what killed 'em, really (and
marginalized if not killed many similar 60s Newt makers), was the coming of the
SCT. Suddenly nobody was interested in an 8" Newtonian which weighed a million
pounds and shook like a leaf in a breeze! :-)
Peace,
Rod Mollise
Mobile Astronomical Society
http://members.aol.com/RMOLLISE/index.html
The Home of _From City Lights to Deep Space_:
The Urban Observer's Guide to the Deep Sky
*********************************************************
Julian McNeil
My first "real" taste of astronomy (and the chronic addiction that
followed ;-) came at 12 years old when I saw Saturn through a 10 " f/5 Cave
Astrola. I quickly became good friends with the owner, and I eventually
bought the scope from him some 10 years later. He claimed that he had to
wait for over a year to get the scope, and he finally got it well after the
company went under. He believes that the owner actually sent him HIS
personal scope just to shut him up and get this guy off his back! I
believe this was in the early 70's. Either way, the scope totally
kicked-butt! When properly collimated, it was an unbelievable planetary
scope and deep sky scope. However, the full driven equatorial mount and
rotating tube assembly was quite hefty for a 10". I eventually sold it
back to him (like I promised) to help pay for Mira, my 16" Starmaster. The
company is gone, but I would definitely classify these scopes as a good
value if found on the used market. It was, by all means, the best 10"
scope that I have ever seen optically. Did nearly 1/3 of the Abell PN list
with it...
Jay McNeil
--
****************************************************************************
***************************************
"Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from mediocre
minds !!!" ~Albert Einstein~
****************************************************************************
***************************************
Searr
Mark
Preston Justis
Cave Optical ceased to exist in the late 70's early 80's (?).
I think the Meade and Celestron SCT's were a little too much
competition for the Newtonians with their fairly massive German
Eq. mountings. These were nice scopes with great optics. I've
seen some for sale in Astromart recently, so you might have a
look now and then. http://www.astromart.com/
Good luck,
Scott
Searr wrote in message <19990304131732...@ng-fr1.aol.com>...
>I have heard good things about "cave astrola" scopes, but have not seen
them
>advertised anywhere. Does this company still exist? Does anybody know
where
>these products might be available, or if they have a website? Also, does
anyone
>have any of their own opinions on these things? Grateful for anybody's
help.
>
>Appreciatively
>Mark
Phil Harrington
>
> I have heard good things about "cave astrola" scopes, but have not seen them
> advertised anywhere. Does this company still exist? Does anybody know where
> these products might be available, or if they have a website? Also, does anyone
> have any of their own opinions on these things? Grateful for anybody's help.
>
> Appreciatively
> Mark
> Se...@aol.com
Mark,
Cave reflectors were tops back in the 1950's and 1960's, but the company
went under in the mid-1970's. They were famous for decent optics, heavy
though sturdy mounts, and horrific delivery times.
Every now and then, you'll see one for sale used, but they are few and
far between.
Phil
***********************
Phil Harrington
Telescopes, eclipses, deep sky...you'll find them all at
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pharrington
Preston Justis
Preston Justis wrote in message <7bmsv9$g46$1...@ash.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
>Searr,
>>Appreciatively
>>Mark
>>Se...@aol.com
>
>
>
Del Johnson
Howard Lester wrote in message <36DF0818...@as.arizona.edu>...I might as well get into the fray... In 1970 I ordered a 6" f/4 for $150 (OTA only, and one 20mm erfle) from Cave, with "null tested" optics... Took months to get it. I imagine the mirror WAS null tested, but that didn't stop them from sending me a terrible mirror. I sent back the mirror, and he probably just re-sent it right back, because it was just as bad. Stars would NOT come to a focus, period. I did get a chance to visit Tom Cave in, I think, 1977 in Long Beach, CA. He wouldn't answer as to why the mirror was so bad; instead he gave me a tour of his shop. I believe the company 'went under' in the early 80's. Yes, it is possible I did not properly collimate it, knowing what I know now. However, I was not the only one, by a long shot, who complained about his work.
Howard Lester
----------------------
KASTRO
still and excellent instrument opticaly. The mount was good, but by adding a
9" high percision drive gear, it was better. What killed Cave????
I spent a year waiting for my scope in 74. I would get different answers
depending on the week I called as to where the scope was in development. From
the mirror is in star testing to it just started fine grinding... the mount is
done to we have just started the castings.... Lots of variations, till I
offered to visit him on a trip. The answers became more linear after that!!
Well, one thing that I think put the nail in the coffin was the company was
sold to a new owner with many 'back orders'. The new owners did not have the
time and lesiurely pace due to the heavy promotions by Celestron (and Mr.
Spock) along with a healthy dosage of much less expensive instrument. The
company spiraled out of control, and was lost in the vast wasteland of dead
businesses we see every day litering the field of astronomical products.
Although their carccas is cold, many scopes they produced in that time were
fantastic. In all I have owned the 10", and two classical cass. scopes by
Cave.
The 12.5" class cass was fantastic if you never moved it. Planetary and
planetaries were top notch. I still kick myself for selling that beast. The
8" class cass was also very good and made an excellent portable planetary
scope.
Although heavy, I have used one form of German eq my whole observing life
(since 68). And lordy help me Ive just ordered a fork instrument.....
In short, if the scope was pre 75, you have likely got a winner. If after 75,
let it ride....
Keith
Anything that has been done, is theoreticaly possible!
RAnder3127
(Searr) writes:
>I have heard good things about "cave astrola" scopes, but have not seen them
>advertised anywhere. Does this company still exist? Does anybody know >where
these products might be available, or if they have a website? Also, does
>anyone have any of their own opinions on these things?
I had one of their 8" F20 Classical Cassegrains. Good optics
but took way to long to cool.
-Rich
Jeff
is long gone. Tom Cave is alive and doing quite well.
Jeff
On 4 Mar 1999 19:26:29 GMT, rmol...@aol.com (RMOLLISE) wrote:
>>I have heard good things about "cave astrola" scopes, but have not seen them
>>advertised anywhere. Does this company still exist? Does anybody know where
>>
>>these products might be available, or if they have a website? Also, does
>>anyone
>>have any of their own opinions on these things? Grateful for anybody's
>>help.
>>
>>Appreciatively
>>Mark
>
RMOLLISE
>is long gone. Tom Cave is alive and doing quite well.
>
>Jeff
Hi Jeff:
Right, I knew that.
But his _company_ is ancient history. I think Cave did a fine job with its
optics over the years. But they also produced some stinkily bad ones toward
the end. The mounts seemed pretty impressive back then, but today...well aside
from the weight and so-so AC drives and gears, these mounts, though heavy, were
SHAKY as hell. And even though Cave produced some short focal length scopes
over the years there was no way that they could compete with the C8s for
portability...the times they were a-changin! Many folks were getting to the
point where they had to travel to dark sites to observe. And believe me,
packing one of Tom Cave's Newtonians in a post gas-crunch compact car was no
fun (same goes for any of the era's scopes--Optical Craftsmen, Edmund,
Starliner, etc.)! It wasn't just that Celestron was the first 'telescope'
company to really do a professional marketing job. It was that the Cs were
really just more 'practical' for most observers. Another thing was that more
serious amateurs were becoming interested in trying astrophotography. A C8 was
usable for deep sky picture taking practically out of the box. A typical 60s
Newt basically needed to be rebuilt from the ground up!
William Hamblen
: I have heard good things about "cave astrola" scopes, but have not seen them
: advertised anywhere. Does this company still exist? Does anybody know where
: these products might be available, or if they have a website? Also, does anyone
: have any of their own opinions on these things? Grateful for anybody's help.
Cave closed it's doors a long time ago. You will find Cave telescopes only
on the second hand market.
Parks Optical (they advertise in Sky & Telescope) makes telescopes much like
the ones once sold by Cave.
David Nakamoto
Nope, you're many years too late. Cave as a company is no longer,
although Old Man Cave, who founded the company, is stil alive,
although last word was he was recovering from a heart attack.
His scopes, all Newtonians if I remember correctly, were
legendary in their optics and construction. In a time just before
the advent of the commercially mass produced SCT, Caves were
considered one of the top of the line. Those lucky enough to
still own one count themselves in the lucky group.
Hope this helps.
Searr wrote:
>
> I have heard good things about "cave astrola" scopes, but have not
> seen them advertised anywhere. Does this company still exist?
> Does anybody know where these products might be available, or if
> they have a website? Also, does anyone have any of their own
> opinions on these things? Grateful for anybody's help.
>
> Appreciatively
> Mark
> Se...@aol.com
--
--------------------------------------------------------
If it was so, it would be, and if it were so, it might be,
but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.
--- Lewis Carrol
Name: David I. Nakamoto
E-mail: din@blankreg (David I. Nakamoto)
--------------------------------------------------------
Julian McNeil
Yeah, all of those old, pier-type German equatorials were quite a
handful. I went from the 10" f/5 Cave with the 1.5" shaft mount to a 16"
Starmaster, and the back-aches are much less severe ;-) And, of course,
there are no nasty 30 pound couterweights to deal with...
RMOLLISE
>Delxue
>Dynascopes! I had one of those (an 8" with permanent pier and 2" shafts).
>The
>thing fell on me once in it's "portable" mode and damn near crushed me.
>Randy Rogers
>Dallas, TX
>
Hi Randy:
But what a way to go!
I always like the Criterions (their NEWTONIANS not their sad SCTs) and
especially wanted the 8! Never got around to buying any of their models though.
I've used 'em though, and their quality. I envy Phil Harrington in that he got
an RV-8 and hung on to it! I also was mightily impressed by their 12"! what a
monster!
Jeffrey Nutkowitz
RV6. Ain't never gonna get rid of it, but my new, hi tech ETX/Autostar
DEFINITELY gets a lot more use than the RV6 ever would at this point. I
remember Cave and all those other 'garage/one man operation' telescope
companies and their ads. Most of them were run by people simply dedicated to
making great scopes at affordable prices. Unfortunately, as others have
mentioned, they were all done in by the SC craze, not to mention the fact
that most of those folks were just plain lousy business people, and
frequently lost money just to keep customers happy and great scopes selling.
--
Jeffrey Nutkowitz/Optiques Classic Photographic Imagery
Freelance Outdoor and Nature Photography Emphasizing a 'Sense of Place'
http://members.aol.com/OptiquesJN
"If you don't change the path you're on, you'll end up where you're already
going."
____________________________________________________________________
RMOLLISE wrote in message <19990306103520...@ng115.aol.com>...
RMOLLISE
>that most of those folks were just plain lousy business people, and
>frequently lost money just to keep customers happy and great scopes selling.
Hi:
All very true. But there was a _reason_ for the SCT craze. I for one never
missed my 60s Metal Giant after getting used to my friendly C8. Visual
performance was just about as good and oh what a pleasure to pack back in the
car at evening's end! :-)
But that's the way it is with 60s Newts! The 4.25" mid 60s Edmund equatorial
Newtonian I still have is more of a hassle to carry around than an _8"_
LX-10...
RAnder3127
<icne...@primenet.com> writes:
> And, of course,
>there are no nasty 30 pound couterweights to deal with...
>
In a hybrid German-fork mount I had, the counterweight
I used weighed 60lbs. Strangely, it didn't bother me
except when I dropped it on my foot. :)
-Rich
Bill Owen
> My 8" f/7 Cave mirror was very good.
I bought a second-hand 8" f/7 Cave in 1971, back when I was in high school.
(The previous owner used it visually, then wanted to get into astrophotography,
which in turn got him interested in photography sans the "astro". He wanted
to sell the scope to buy camera equipment. No accounting for taste!)
It remains the best scope I've ever owned. Absolutely fantastic optics, to
the point that you almost forgot there was a telescope between you and the
stars. I could see Sirius B *easily*.
Unfortunately, I had to sell it to a buddy when we moved out of town. Peter,
if you're reading this, do you still have it 25 years later?
-- Bill "at least I have the memories" Owen, w...@wansor.jpl.nasa.gov
p...@juno.com
rmol...@aol.com (RMOLLISE) wrote:
> Hi Randy:
>
> But what a way to go!
>
> I always like the Criterions (their NEWTONIANS not their sad SCTs) and
> especially wanted the 8! Never got around to buying any of their models
though.
> I've used 'em though, and their quality. I envy Phil Harrington in that he got
> an RV-8 and hung on to it! I also was mightily impressed by their 12"! what a
> monster!
>
> Rod Mollise
> Mobile Astronomical Society
> http://members.aol.com/RMOLLISE/index.html
> The Home of _From City Lights to Deep Space_:
> The Urban Observer's Guide to the Deep Sky
> *********************************************************
Rod,
Back in my high school days, my school system had a small planetarium (24'
dome) that I used to hang around after school. I often helped the director
run school observing sessions, which often involved dragging out an 8" f/8
Criterion Deluxe Dynascope. What a monster! As you know, they had fold-up
tripods that fit into permanent piers. Since we never had the pier, we
relied on the tripod. What a PITA, since the legs *always* folded up
whenever you lifted the mount. I can recall trying to spread those lousy
tripod legs at the same time that I was holding that mount. Must have been
quite a sight! :-)
Phil
**************************
Phil Harrington
Author: STAR WARE
TOURING THE UNIVERSE THROUGH BINOCULARS
ECLIPSE!
THE DEEP SKY: AN INTRODUCTION
ASTRONOMY FOR ALL AGES
SHORT BIKE RIDES IN AND AROUND NEW YORK CITY
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pharrington
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
jerry warner
and wonderful - beautiful! I would have fifty of them today if Icould. Each to his
own.
JW
RMOLLISE
>useful
>and wonderful - beautiful! I would have fifty of them today if Icould. Each
>to his
>own.
HI JW:
Oh, I liked my 8" f7, don't get me wrong. Very good optics. But it _was_ pretty
shaky, by today's terms, anyway. And I did get tired of hauling it around (even
back then I had to_drve_ to a dark site). The Cave-Herring telescopes were a
good chapter in amateur history...but not one I'd really want to go back to
(although you actually can...just call up Parks and they'll sell you a latter
day 'Cave' :-))...
Chris Spratt
Cave "sold" the company. I dropped a lot of money (full purchase price of $1100.00)
and I'm still waiting for my 8" scope - since 1980!
jjgoss
perfect. Still, it is a very nice telescope ...
J.Goss
RMOLLISE wrote in message <19990309080005...@ng-ft1.aol.com>...
jerry warner
today's better mount systems... thus many went to Byers' drives etc ... but
quitre literally most people aspired to Cave scopes during that era. Letme share this!
Growing up in a rural area SS of S&T fame started a homemade version of the
Cave f/16 10" cass (a friend nearby still has it unused today!)... at length SS got
tired
of th project and it was stored ... I begged and SS delivered me boxes of everything
and knowing nothing I began and quickly got into \mirror-making-trouble ... so I
wrote Tom Cave. He called my mother! With instructions/inspiration direct from
Mr Cave I dug back in and finally produced a durable spherical 10" blank ... and this
by prior arrangement went directly to (get this!) Dudley Clausing Sr for finishing ---
Tom and Dudley had agreed my price for this finishing of a primary would be: $20 !
It was paper route money, snow shoveling money, everything I could scrape together
for one year! Then my mother sent Tom a check for $25 and the secondary for this
f/16 10" cass showed up two weeks later. Not unlike today on ocassion people back
then networked (for the sake of a kid!) ... and thebiggest miracle of all was I got it
all together and working .... on a mount made of plumbing joints, 2x4's, etc! People
like
Ed Plamondon, Tom Cave, Dudley Clausing, (Clyde Tombaugh) etal ... it was not
just a matter of telescopes, but a whole way of life.
JW
jerry warner wrote:
> I liked Cave, Im sorry. Mine did not shakelike leaf. Mine were precious and useful
> and wonderful - beautiful! I would have fifty of them today if Icould. Each to his
> own.
RMOLLISE
>Thomas
>Cave "sold" the company. I dropped a lot of money (full purchase price of
>$1100.00)
>and I'm still waiting for my 8" scope - since 1980!
>
Hi Chris:
Sorry this happened to you. Not exactly an uncommon occurance during the good
old days, either. Especially in the 70s when the 'bigtime' (most really
semi-garage ops) Newt makers wee staring to fade.
RMOLLISE
>perfect. Still, it is a very nice telescope ...
>
>J.Goss
Hi Julie:
No doubt! I've often thought I'd like one of their big, honkin' 16" Newts, but
only if I had a permanent observatory under dark skies to house it (and the
pretty SUBSTANIAL bucks they demand for their 'Observatory' model :-))...
Del Johnson
company was bought by a crook who had no intentions of fulfilling orders.
The slime just liquidated the assets and destroyed Mr. Cave's reputation.
There was nothing that Mr. Cave was able to do about it.
Del Johnson
RMOLLISE wrote in message <19990310082021...@ng95.aol.com>...
>>I, among, others had the misfortune of "buying" a Cave Astrola just when
>>Thomas
>>Cave "sold" the company. I dropped a lot of money (full purchase price of
>>$1100.00)
>>and I'm still waiting for my 8" scope - since 1980!
>>
>
>Hi Chris:
>
>Sorry this happened to you. Not exactly an uncommon occurance during the
good
>old days, either. Especially in the 70s when the 'bigtime' (most really
>semi-garage ops) Newt makers wee staring to fade.
>
Chris Spratt
he was selling the company in the next couple of weeks. All I was told was
delivery would be in a couple of months and that's after gladly taking my money.
Then he sold the company that month. The least he could have done was to tell
prospective customers the company was for sale! Then I could have made an
informed judgement as to whether I wanted to trust the new owners to fulfill
their contractual obligations. I'm still miffed! By the way other well know
amateurs (friends of mine) were all taken in during that "transition" period.
Many are still equally "miffed"!
I reported this incident to Sky & Telescope and they "brushed" me off. I then
went to the US Postal Service (for mail fraud) but they couldn't recommend
anything but trying to sue for my money back. From Canada that wasn't easy.
(Under NAFTA rules it may well be now.) I then drove down to California from
Victoria B. C. in the spring and found the "store" closed. Nothing there but
empty floor space That trip was a waste of time and gas too!
Del Johnson
there was going to be anything but business as usual after the transition.
He sold the business because his age was catching up with him. He was a
respectable businessman up to that time, and was also an active astronomer.
I believe that his specialty was observing Mars. I lost an 8" mirror that
was being recoated at the time, which is why I spoke with him, and don't
blame him for it.
Del Johnson
Chris Spratt wrote in message <36E6D4D8...@islandnet.com>...
jjgoss
matter what T.Back and Bratislav say....
J.Goss
RMOLLISE wrote in message <19990310090113...@ng99.aol.com>...
>>Yes, I know, I have a Parks 8" Newt. Nice optics, but the mount is not
>>perfect. Still, it is a very nice telescope ...
>>
>>J.Goss
>
>Hi Julie:
>
>No doubt! I've often thought I'd like one of their big, honkin' 16" Newts,
but
>only if I had a permanent observatory under dark skies to house it (and the
>pretty SUBSTANIAL bucks they demand for their 'Observatory' model :-))...
>
jla...@erols.com
> >> >Rod Mollise
> >> >Mobile Astronomical Society
> >> >http://members.aol.com/RMOLLISE/index.html
> >> >The Home of _From City Lights to Deep Space_:
> >> >The Urban Observer's Guide to the Deep Sky
> >> >*********************************************************
> >
Va.
> >
> >
jla...@erols.com
theodore....@gmail.com
Ted
jla...@erols.com
> My astronomy club has a 16 inch cave astrola. I would like to fix or improve the drive but need schematics and or manual. Does anyone have their manual?
> Ted
Most any good machine shop can improve your clock drive and mount..There are plenty of articles and books on the subject of clock drives..I say this because the only sticking point you'll have is obtaining and configuring the correct gears and clock motor...the price for these components is negligible...hooking it all up will be your only stumbling block..good luck....Jim Lawrence jla...@erols.com
jim lawrence
> Ted
Martin Brown
motor under simple computer control to implement first order periodic
error correction and accept inputs from an autoguider.
The old days of clock drives and synchronous motors are long gone.
Basically you want to make a device that turns the worm wheel at the
right rate depending on what you want to track (sun, moon or stars).
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
