Equinox March 2015

[oriel36]

In terms of the surface rotation with respect to the central Sun arising solely from the orbital motion of the Earth through space, the North/South surface polar points are nearing the circle of illumination from the Solstice position of 90 degrees and a maximum distance from the circle of illumination . It is not quite like the following image at present but fairly close for illustrative purposes (the images was taken more towards May)-

http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2003/05/22/earth_americas250.jpg

The hypothesis for the cause of the seasons requires revisiting using a fairly straightforward assessment that could be done at any time from the space station or any other imaging satellite out there. Instead of tilting towards and away from the Sun, the Earth's surface is carried around in a circle where the Polar points are the most obvious way to extrapolate this rotation as they run parallel with the Earth's orbital plane.

Nobody needs to oppose this anymore no more than they need permission to explain it,after all we can see it happening from space if they took the time to create a set of images -

http://www.space.com/25797-nasa-hd-earth-from-space-video-webcasts.html

So, observers should get into the spirit of things where perspectives are married to modern technology as though it was so much common sense and everyone was being inspired or being productive. This is our century and there is so much to do.

[martin_pier...@yahoo.co.uk]

Don't feed the Gerald Kelleher troll. You will be wasting your time and, more importantly, you will be encouraging Gerald to continue even longer in his self-harming activities.

Gerald, because of the severe and life-long condition from which he suffers, is almost entirely unable to accept anything that differs from his own bizarre view of the world. Changing his mind is simply not possible. Getting him to respond to questions is also impossible.

The way he endlessly repeats minor variations of the same nonsense is just one symptom of his illness. He quite literally cannot stop himself from posting and it is both instructive and frightening to examine how often he posts. It is hard to imagine that he has a normal life as in paid employment, a family and other leisure activities.

Gerald has zero interest in debate - in the normally accepted meaning of the word. Of course I remain unconvinced that he really believes some of the crud he keeps chanting out. Some of his favourite topics from the past have been quietly dropped from his menu and this possibly reflects that he has finally realised that on that particular issue he was 100% wrong?

[oriel36]

http://www.space.com/25797-nasa-hd-earth-from-space-video-webcasts.html

With the lights out in the room it is fascinating in the most relaxing way even though looking out into the celestial arena is much the same.

The same organization that gives us this amazing view of our home planet then expresses this monstrosity for no good reason -

http://eoimages.gsfc.nasa.gov/images/imagerecords/52000/52248/seasons_msg_2010-2011.jpg

Why the animosity towards the surface rotation arising from the orbital motion of the Earth which keeps the circle of illumination always tangential to the orbital plane and useful North/South polar coordinates turning in a circle parallel to this motion through space -

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/Earth_and_Moon_from_Mars_PIA04531.jpg

[Mike Collins]

oriel36 <kellehe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.space.com/25797-nasa-hd-earth-from-space-video-webcasts.html
>
> With the lights out in the room it is fascinating in the most relaxing
> way even though looking out into the celestial arena is much the same.
>
> The same organization that gives us this amazing view of our home planet
> then expresses this monstrosity for no good reason -
>
> http://eoimages.gsfc.nasa.gov/images/imagerecords/52000/52248/seasons_msg_2010-2011.jpg
>

Now explain exactly what upsets you in these images and why.

[Bill]

Here, have the animation. Digest it, or choke on it.

http://svs.gsfc.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/details.cgi?aid=11353

--
Email address is a Spam trap.

[oriel36]

Pivoting the circle of illumination off the Equator where the Earth loses its 23 1/2 degree inclination is certainly a celestial sphere effort and grotesque.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/Earth_and_Moon_from_Mars_PIA04531.jpg

http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2003/05/22/earth_americas250.jpg

The Earth when seen from Mars will eventually show close to a full set of phases with the circle of illumination always tangential to the central Sun just as Venus shows its almost full set of phases to us -

http://www.masil-astro-imaging.com/SWI/UV%20montage%20flat.jpg

The Sun's Equator projected out into space provides a rough guide for the orbital planes of all the planets so the celestial sphere habit of describing the Equinox as the Sun's passage across the Earth's rotational Equator is a particularly celestial sphere thing to do and loses all sense of size comparison between the Earth and the Sun -

http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/education/images/750x450/sun-earth-750.jpg

So, revisit the horror of that NASA time lapse footage which you kindly posted with its total lack of physical considerations and the irrational demands it makes on people's imagination.

[oriel36]

On Monday, March 2, 2015 at 10:55:35 PM UTC, Mike Collins wrote:
> oriel36 <kellehe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > http://www.space.com/25797-nasa-hd-earth-from-space-video-webcasts.html
> >
> > With the lights out in the room it is fascinating in the most relaxing
> > way even though looking out into the celestial arena is much the same.
> >
> > The same organization that gives us this amazing view of our home planet
> > then expresses this monstrosity for no good reason -
> >
> > http://eoimages.gsfc.nasa.gov/images/imagerecords/52000/52248/seasons_msg_2010-2011.jpg
> >
> Now explain exactly what upsets you in these images and why.

You can't get upset over an absurdity however some person sat down at a computer terminal and conjured up a dumb pivoting circle of illumination out of actual imaging and the Earth with a zero degree inclination.

I don't have the computer skills to put together the sequence of images which will show that although the entire planet turns slowly and unevenly as a function of its orbital motion, the North/South poles provide the optimal perspective for this rotation as they turn parallel to the orbital plane and to the central Sun -

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/43/Earth_precession.svg

A two minute analogy using a broom and walking/orbiting a central object will confirm this and break through the older flawed idea of axial precession and give observers the second surface rotation needed to explain the seasons and why the total length of the noon cycle varies as the Sun crosses the observer's meridian each day.

Am I supposed to attack you for seeing nothing wrong with distorting the Meteosat's imaging to force through what is an assault on the eyes ?. I would much prefer to see intelligence prevail and the proper use of imaging be brought into this important topic.

[martin_pier...@yahoo.co.uk]

Readers should not feed the Gerald Kelleher troll. You will be wasting your time and, more importantly, you will be encouraging Gerald to continue even longer in his self-harming activities.

Gerald, because of the severe and life-long condition from which he suffers, is almost entirely unable to accept anything that differs from his own bizarre view of the world. Changing his mind is simply not possible neither is getting him to respond to questions.

Equally important is that many regulars remain unconvinced that Gerald really believes some of the crud he keeps chanting out. Some of his favourite topics from the past have been quietly dropped from his menu and this probably reflects the fact that he has finally realised that on that particular issue he was 100% wrong?

The way he endlessly repeats minor variations of the same nonsense is just one symptom of his illness. He quite literally cannot stop himself from posting - it has pretty much become his "life". It is hard to find any evidence that he has an existence outside his handful of trivial obsessions.

[Bill]

From the position of the camera taking the images - the terminator
"rocks" back and forth due to the fact that the camera's orietation is
fixed w.r.t. the Earth's surface.

(When you evaluate images, it's necessary to account for the orietatoin
of the camera w.r.t. the subject, and any other limitations that exist
with the imaging system. If you don't, you're liable to do as you did
in this case: reach wrong conclusions. )

Sure, someone at NASA, or a even a hobbyist, could redo the time lapse:
processing the images with a computer, reorienting the data to maintain
the terminator in a fixed position w.r.t. the view of people looking at
the image (per your preference); but the result would not be "more true"
than the original time-lapse.

[oriel36]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=612gSZsplpE

Two surface rotations with particular emphasis on 45 seconds into that time lapse footage where the orbital component becomes manifest in an obvious was with the circle of illumination fixed and taken for granted.

There is no reason whatsoever that a time lapse footage cannot be taken from a satellite riding the terminator where the North/South poles will be seen to turn in a circle parallel to the orbital plane and exactly as illustrated in the 'precession' image -

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/43/Earth_precession.svg

As the only adult here and one who actually enjoys the dynamics leading up to the March Equinox, it is a shame that one of those guys at NASA can't apply themselves to the dual surface rotations responsible for the seasons and the variations in the length of the noon cycle,bot arising from the same cause.

[oriel36]

On Wednesday, March 4, 2015 at 5:47:11 PM UTC, Bill wrote:

> Sure, someone at NASA, or a even a hobbyist, could redo the time lapse:
> processing the images with a computer, reorienting the data to maintain
> the terminator in a fixed position w.r.t. the view of people looking at
> the image (per your preference); but the result would not be "more true"
> than the original time-lapse.
>

Let me see -

"You may think the seasons are caused by a change in the distance between Earth and the sun. In fact, the tilt of Earth on its axis is the most important factor. You can see this from space by watching the movement of Earth's terminator--the edge between the shadows of nightfall and the sunlight of dusk and dawn. Because Earth spins on a tilted axis, the orientation of this line changes over the course of a year in sync with the seasons. On the September and March equinox, when Earth is at a right angle to the sun, light is spread evenly across the globe and the terminator runs from pole to pole. But on the December and June solstice, when Earth is tilted away from and toward the sun, respectively, light is cast disproportionately on each hemisphere, causing the terminator to appear slanted. Watch the video to view the migration of Earth's terminator across the seasons." NASA

http://svs.gsfc.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/details.cgi?aid=11353

It is so stupid that I refuse to comment on it again but it does carry the NASA imprimatur which makes it problematic. Another overgrown kid at NASA sitting at his terminal conjuring up nonsense is not much good for me who needs people who can behave as though planetary dynamics and experiences via terrestrial sciences mattered.

I just looked at my previous post and the poor proofreading and shake my head sometimes that while my insights are spot on, the way I convey them is not.

[Chris.B]

On Wednesday, 4 March 2015 19:24:00 UTC+1, 1461 wrote:
>
> I just looked at my previous post and the poor proofreading and shake my head sometimes that while my insights are spot on, the way I convey them is not.

Might that be due to the thick layer of bullshit splattered all over your welding goggles?

[oriel36]

Having punched in 'Earth Equinox from space' into a Google image search I haven't found a single image necessary to convey the relationship between the North/South poles to the circle of illumination and the nearest one is removed from the Equinox -

http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2003/05/22/earth_americas250.jpg

It is so easy on the eyes and there should be no trouble whatsoever with discerning that as the Earth moves through space the entire surface turns to the central Sun including carrying the polar points in a circle. Like a window into the orbital behavior of the Earth so much is gained by introducing a secondary surface rotation to account for so many effects and experiences.

[martin_pier...@yahoo.co.uk]

Readers might be tempted to aske Gerald exactly what he means by "secondary surface rotation". Don't be - in all his many years on this group he never been known to answer questions of this type.

He wants you to think that he has had some massive insight that the rest of us have missed. He hasn't!

[Chris.B]

On Thursday, 5 March 2015 13:18:07 UTC+1, martin_pier...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>
> He wants you to think that he has had some massive insight that the rest of us have missed. He hasn't!

Breaking news:

Bullshitter 1461 has run over his last two sticks with the muck spreader.

Farmer Giles is not a happy bunny and is pressing charges of grand theft ought to!

http://theyearoflivingenglishly.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/img_6112.jpg

[Quadibloc]

On Thursday, March 5, 2015 at 5:18:07 AM UTC-7, martin_pier...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
> Readers might be tempted to aske Gerald exactly what he means by "secondary
> surface rotation".

It's the effect of the Earth orbiting the Sun, which produces one day and night
at the poles in a year. That this "secondary rotation" is present everywhere on
Earth, and thus must combine with the "primary rotation" to give the 24 hour
day, which means the "primary rotation" really is 23 hours, 56 minutes, and 4
seconds, however, is something he steadfastly refuses to admit or recognizes.

So, yes, he won't answer the question, because it would bring his structure of
doublethink crashing to the ground.

John Savard

[Quadibloc]

So it isn't that
(begin quote)

He wants you to think that he has had some massive insight that the rest of us
have missed. He hasn't!

(end quote)

so much as that he is trying to change his story just enough to fit in with
objections others have raised which he does see as valid, without conceding
that he was wrong all along. He is just trying to make his theory fit the facts
without actually changing it.

John Savard

[Rodney Pont]

On Fri, 6 Mar 2015 18:31:00 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc wrote:

>It's the effect of the Earth orbiting the Sun, which produces one day and night
>at the poles in a year. That this "secondary rotation" is present everywhere on
>Earth, and thus must combine with the "primary rotation" to give the 24 hour
>day, which means the "primary rotation" really is 23 hours, 56 minutes, and 4
>seconds, however, is something he steadfastly refuses to admit or recognizes.

And yet he doesn't recognise the same effect on the moon!

--
Faster, cheaper, quieter than HS2
and built in 5 years;
UKUltraspeed <http://www.500kmh.com/>

[oriel36]

On Saturday, March 7, 2015 at 6:16:06 AM UTC, Rodney Pont wrote:

> And yet he doesn't recognise the same effect on the moon!
>
> --
> Faster, cheaper, quieter than HS2
> and built in 5 years;
> UKUltraspeed <http://www.500kmh.com/>

This year empiricists will attempt to erase an entire timekeeping culture and its links to planetary dynamics and external references much like those thugs in the Middle East try to erase the culture of an ancient civilization. Instead of sledgehammers the polished scam merchants conjure up stories to suit an agenda, in this case introducing a speculative hypothesis about the rotation period of the Earth in Jurassic times and then ending with an idealized rotation of 24 hours in the year 1820 -

"At the time of the dinosaurs, Earth completed one rotation in about 23 hours," says MacMillan, who is a member of the VLBI team at NASA Goddard. "In the year 1820, a rotation took exactly 24 hours, or 86,400 standard seconds. Since 1820, the mean solar day has increased by about 2.5 milliseconds." NASA

http://www.nasa.gov/topics/solarsystem/features/extra-second.html

There is no 'decision' next November about detaching timekeeping from planetary dynamics as these brutes have already detached rotation from the antecedent principles hence sledgehammer empiricism at its worst.

The foundations of timekeeping and external references is based on a single astronomical event which is closely tied to the Equinox event. It is how to define the Earth's position in space using a line-of-sight observation where stars appear from behind the Sun or its glare at a specific point in the Earth's orbit, in this case the first appearance of Sirius fulfilled this requirement. Then the number of times the planet turns to bring Sirius into view emerges after that which in turn creates a divergence between the calendar framework and the raw fact of close to 365 1/4 rotations within an orbital circumference.

Men can stop behaving like thugs and brutes determined to erase the astronomical foundations of timekeeping but the world becomes so much sterile and dreary. Unlike the historical artifacts which were lost to bulldozers, drills and hammers, every single bit of astronomy can be restored and improved on by some of the people who up to now have launched an assault on a heritage which is both robust and fragile by turns.

[oriel36]

As the Earth is moving through space over the coming days, the entire planet is turning along its orbital plane so that the North/South poles provide a handy reference for this surface rotation to the central Sun that occurs separately to daily rotation and does not involve variations in latitudinal speed -

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/43/Earth_precession.svg


In contrast, and despite so much imaging available, the alternative explanation for the Equinox event is an untenable mess -

"The equinoxes are the only times when the solar terminator is perpendicular to the Equator. As a result, the northern and southern Hemispheres are illuminated equally." Wikipedia

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/84/Earth-lighting-equinox_EN.png

How difficult can it be to segregate the daily daylight/darkness cycle from the polar daylight/darkness cycle, attribute separate rotational causes for each event, study the attributes of each and then combine them for multiple purposes.

Any orbiting satellite with imaging capabilities will see that all locations on the planet turn at a 23 1/2 degree angle to the circle of illumination in a straight line from where a location exits the circle of illumination and enters it about 12 hours later. All other times there will be a 'bow' appearance with a maximum at the Solstice -

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/43/Earth_precession.svg

There is nothing whatsoever to prevent imaging taken from the lunar surface with each sweep of the moon in front of the Sun/Earth line.

[martin_pier...@yahoo.co.uk]

Readers should not feed the Gerald Kelleher troll. You will be wasting your own time and, more importantly, you will be encouraging Gerald to continue even longer in his self-harming activities.

Gerald, because of the severe and life-long condition from which he suffers, is almost entirely unable to accept anything that differs from his own bizarre view of the world. Changing his mind is simply not possible nor is getting him to respond to questions.

Equally important is that many regulars remain totally unconvinced that Gerald really believes some of the crud he keeps chanting out. Some of his favourite topics from the past have been quietly dropped from his menu and this probably reflects the fact that he has finally realised that on that particular issue he was 100% wrong?

The way he endlessly repeats minor variations of the same nonsense is just one symptom of his serious illness. He quite literally cannot stop himself from posting - it has pretty much become his "life". It is hard to find any evidence that he has an existence outside his handful of trivial obsessions.

[Mike Collins]

This is your third posting of the same text in one thread. Have you ever
been diagnosed with OCD?

[oriel36]

No offence to the middle aged, middle class thugs and their dour sensibilities but the Equinox presents various challenges for the observer as clearly the position of sunrise at a location at the Equator is at its maximum declination on the Equinox as the apparent trajectory of the Sun from horizon to horizon from March to September is entirely opposite.

Only at the Solstices is the position sunrise and sunset symmetrical on the horizon at the equator.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_precession#/media/File:Earth_precession.svg


If NASA wishes to place a camera on the near side moon and take images of the Earth similar to the following image then a huge purpose will be served -

http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2003/05/22/earth_americas250.jpg

[Mike Collins]

You really have no ability to visualise. The Equinox is almost at full Moon
so the view from the Moon will be of a full Earth. The terminator will not
be visible except as a small darkening at one edge.
To everybody else who thinks for a moment this is obvious. You get so many
things wrong because of your inability to visualise but it's not too late
to get expert help.

[Mike Collins]

Sorry that should say new moon.

[oriel36]

On Monday, March 16, 2015 at 6:24:44 PM UTC, Mike Collins wrote:
> oriel36 <kellehe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > No offence to the middle aged, middle class thugs and their dour
> > sensibilities but the Equinox presents various challenges for the
> > observer as clearly the position of sunrise at a location at the Equator
> > is at its maximum declination on the Equinox as the apparent trajectory
> > of the Sun from horizon to horizon from March to September is entirely opposite.
> >
> > Only at the Solstices is the position sunrise and sunset symmetrical on
> > the horizon at the equator.
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_precession#/media/File:Earth_precession.svg
> >
> >
> > If NASA wishes to place a camera on the near side moon and take images of
> > the Earth similar to the following image then a huge purpose will be served -
> >
> > http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2003/05/22/earth_americas250.jpg
>
> You really have no ability to visualise. The Equinox is almost at full Moon
> so the view from the Moon will be of a full Earth. The terminator will not
> be visible except as a small darkening at one edge.

The imaging taken from the moon will show the traverse change in position of the North/South poles as they are carried around in a circle with each pass of the moon across the Sun/Earth line. The change in position with each sweep will look exactly like this -

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/43/Earth_precession.svg

> To everybody else who thinks for a moment this is obvious. You get so many
> things wrong because of your inability to visualise but it's not too late
> to get expert help.

The utter drudgery which is a consequence of having no spirit and no imaging.

We see Uranus and its circle of illumination in much the same way as the Earth will appear from the moon when it is between the Earth and the Sun -

http://www.daviddarling.info/images/Uranus_rings_changes.jpg

The Equinox is a spectacular astronomical event which is obscured by celestial sphere stargazers and their nonsensical description of the Sun crossing the Earth rotational Equator . The true description relies on dual surface rotations to the central Sun corresponding to the two rotations behind the daily daylight/darkness cycle and the polar daylight/darkness cycle.

Passing through creation and not picking up on the great things in front of you must be the most horrible condition imaginable and especially now when anyone can appreciate the explanation using imaging and all the advantages of the 21st century.

[oriel36]

At least you thought about it whereas the space agencies have not.

The moon passing the Sun/Earth line will show the fully illuminated face of the planet but with each pass it will register the change in position of the North/South poles within that fully illuminated face.

Welcome to 21st century astronomy !.

[oriel36]

There has to be some twinge of shame when readers here encounter the explanation for the Equinox found in the most referenced website out there -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equinox

In the few remaining hours before the Equinox as the Earth travels though space and around the Sun, the entire planet will turn just far enough that the North and South poles will exist at extreme ends of the fully illuminated face.

The polar points always turn parallel to the orbital plane as a separate rotation and it is time I saw people at least try to grasp the concept with or without daily rotation. The broom handle analogy is certainly the best way to appreciate this surface rotation to the central Sun where the line of a person's body represents the upright circle of illumination.

It is simply not good enough that present company either 'tilts' the Earth or 'tilts' the circle of illumination instead of assigning a second surface rotation to the central Sun -

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a3/Seasonearth.png

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equinox#/media/File:Earth-lighting-equinox_EN.png


Astronomy was always the pride of human intellectual endeavors and it can be again but not with this mockery that takes its name at present.

[martin_pier...@yahoo.co.uk]

Readers should not feed the Gerald Kelleher troll. You will be wasting your own time and, more importantly, you will be encouraging Gerald to continue in his self-harming activities.

Gerald, because of the severe and life-long condition from which he suffers, is entirely unable to accept anything that differs from his own bizarre view of the world. Changing his mind is simply not possible nor is getting him to respond to questions.

Equally important is that most regulars remain totally unconvinced that Gerald really believes some of the crud he keeps chanting out. Some of his favourite topics from the past have been quietly dropped from his menu and this probably reflects the fact that he has finally realised that on that particular issue he was 100% wrong?

The way he endlessly repeats variations of the same nonsense is just one symptom of his serious illness. He quite literally cannot stop himself from posting - it has pretty much become his "life". It is hard to find any evidence that he has an existence outside his handful of trivial obsessions.

[Mike Collins]

This is getting beyond a joke.
Your stupid posts are extending all of Oriel's threads. If it weren't for
your boring rubbish this thread would only have posts by Oriel himself and
would be a laughing stock just like the Brad Guth posts of the past with
hundreds of replies to himself.
Your post are boring, repetitive and make the problem you are attempting to
deal with worse. And you're even worse that him for answering questions.
Have you been assessed for OCD?
You should be!

[oriel36]

On Thursday, March 19, 2015 at 7:35:56 PM UTC, Mike Collins wrote:

> This is getting beyond a joke.

On the eve of a solar eclipse in conjunction with the Equinox all there exists is a bunch of sour middle class thugs with little feeling for either event.

Want to see a real joke, take your pick -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equinox#/media/File:Earth-lighting-equinox_EN.png

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Season#/media/File:Seasonearth.png


The rotation of the Earth, the orbital motion of the moon and the stationary central Sun is magnificent yet you miserable,spiritless people will try to project a celestial sphere ideology -

http://grok.lsu.edu/Image/16819.jpg


Enemies of all that is good about human reasoning and human achievement while lacking the fascination which comes with genuine astronomy. Never have you all looked so dreary and dumb, truly !.

[oriel36]

When the moon is directly between the Earth and the Sun in roughly a month's time (April 18th) a camera on the moon would register a surface rotation of roughly 30 degrees using the fully illuminated face and the North pole as a gauge, the next sweep will be roughly another 30 degrees so that when the moon is between the Earth and the Sun around the June Solstice, the entire planet's surface will have turned 90 degrees,again,using the poles as a gauge. This surface rotation is already seen within the solar system.

http://www.daviddarling.info/images/Uranus_rings_changes.jpg