Starry Night Painting and Van Gogh, and Big Dipper
Wayne Watson
on this interesting topic. I did get the 1988 article and it pretty much answered my questions. Van
Gogh painted astro objects in about 10 of his paintings. He certainly had his own way of doing them.
The moon is also in The Road with Cypress. Interesting that he did a mirror image of the objects.
First Post:
===========
Van Gogh's Starry Night depicts the Big Dipper and his Road with Cypress shows Mercury and Venus.
Roger Sinnott of S&T discusses this in his Astro Computing Oct. 1988 column. I have copies of both
paintings. My issues don't go back that far. Venus and Mercury are easy to pick out, since there are
only two astro images. Not certain which planet is which. Can someone give me an idea how to figure
out the big dipper? I suspect it is in its winter position with the asterism stretching from left to
right across the painting. If so, what's the very large object in the upper right? Part of the
dipper?
--
Wayne T. Watson (121.015 Deg. W, 39.262 Deg. N, 2,701 feet, Nevada City, CA)
-- GMT-8 hr std. time, RJ Rcvr
"... the smallest known metal-rich asteroid -- Amun 3554, about one kilometer in
diameter, contains 3.5 trillion dollars' worth of cobalt, nickel, iron and platinum."
-- from Seeing in the Dark by Timothy Ferris
Web Page: <home.earthlink.net/~mtnviews>
Imaginarium Museum: <home.earthlink.net/~mtnviews/imaginarium.html>
Richard DeLuca
Wayne Watson <mtnv...@earthlink.net> wrote:
I have more than a passing interest in Van Gogh, and wanted to help, but
your questions were unclear. Rereading the post several times only
confused me more. Glad you found your answers!
Starry Skies,
Rich
Alan W. Craft
His most fascinating works were those produced upon his self-committance, I feel;
"Trees in the Asylum Garden", for example.
Alan
Richard DeLuca
Alan W. Craft <mauri...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 08:10:10 GMT, Richard DeLuca
> <odyssey@-nospam-stny.rr.com> ...reflected:
> >> --
> >
> >I have more than a passing interest in Van Gogh, and wanted to help, but
> >your questions were unclear. Rereading the post several times only
> >confused me more. Glad you found your answers!
> >
> >Starry Skies,
> >Rich
>
> His most fascinating works were those produced upon his
> self-committance, I feel;
> "Trees in the Asylum Garden", for example.
>
Starry Night was a big disappointment to me when I finally saw it in
person. More 'one dimensional' than I expected. I enjoy his Iris
paintings the most- they send my emotions into hyperdrive.
Wayne Watson
busy. :-)
Richard DeLuca wrote:
> In article <3F0F9CD8...@earthlink.net>,
> Wayne Watson <mtnv...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > I'm reposting the material below with a slightly different title. I'm
> > surprised no one has picked up
> > on this interesting topic. I did get the 1988 article and it pretty much
> > answered my questions. Van
> > Gogh painted astro objects in about 10 of his paintings. He certainly had his
> > own way of doing them.
> > The moon is also in The Road with Cypress. Interesting that he did a mirror
> > image of the objects.
> >
> > First Post:
> > ===========
> > Van Gogh's Starry Night depicts the Big Dipper and his Road with Cypress
> > shows Mercury and Venus.
> > Roger Sinnott of S&T discusses this in his Astro Computing Oct. 1988 column.
> >> --
>
> I have more than a passing interest in Van Gogh, and wanted to help, but
> your questions were unclear. Rereading the post several times only
> confused me more. Glad you found your answers!
>
> Starry Skies,
> Rich
--
Alan W. Craft
My mousepad is of that very painting, that is, "Iris", and chosen
for its relevance to the state flower of Tennessee.
Alan
Richard DeLuca
Alan W. Craft <mauri...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 14:46:32 GMT, Richard DeLuca
> <odyssey@-nospam-stny.rr.com> ...reflected:
>
> >
> >Starry Night was a big disappointment to me when I finally saw it in
> >person. More 'one dimensional' than I expected. I enjoy his Iris
> >paintings the most- they send my emotions into hyperdrive.
>
> My mousepad is of that very painting, that is, "Iris", and chosen
> for its relevance to the state flower of Tennessee.
>
Alan,
I really like that paining; the one white iris in a field of blue irises
is almost spiritual. I realize that a white iris is not uncommon from
the same bulbs, but it looks like a misfit, just as Vincent was himself.
My VERY favorite of his paintings is called 'vase with irises.' Just
blue irises in a white pitcher- gorgeous! I saw it in person at the MET
twenty some years ago, when they had a special exhibition of about 100
of his paintings. 'Irises' was there too, as was 'Starry Night.' I
don't know where these three paintings are now- MOMA?
Starry Skies,
Rich
Richard DeLuca
Wayne Watson <mtnv...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> If you were confused by what I wrote, try listening to Don McLean's Vincent.
> That'll keep your mind
> busy. :-)
>
Gee, that's one of the few Don McLean songs that I think I *do*
understand..........;-)
Starry Skies,
Rich
PrisNo6
> Van Gogh's Starry Night depicts the Big Dipper . . . Can someone give me
> winter position with the asterism stretching from left to right across
> the painting. If so, what's the very large object in the upper right?
> Part of the dipper?
The large object in the upper right-hand corner of "The Starry Night"
looks to me like the moon in its first or third phases:
http://www.cv.nrao.edu/fits/www/starry_night_2.html
or
http://www.moma.org/collection/depts/paint_sculpt/blowups/paint_sculpt_003.html
To research the historical orientation of Big Dipper further, I
suggest the following approach:
1) Determine the date and location that the painting was created. The
above-cited web pages state that the "The Starry Night" was painted in
June 1889 at Saint-Remy, France. The geographic server at:
http://www.getty.edu/research/tools/vocabulary/tgn/
lists the following latitude and longitude for St. Remy:
Saint-Rémy (inhabited place)
Coordinates:
Lat: 46 45 00 N degrees minutes Lat: 46.7500 decimal degrees
Long: 004 50 00 E degrees minutes Long: 4.8333 decimal degrees
2) Narrow to the day of the month by finding out the lunar cycle for
June 1889. See the U.S. Naval Observatory server at:
http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/RS_OneYear.html
to print out a one-year table for Saint-Remy. (Lurkers, I could use
some help here for the day of each lunar phase during June 1889.)
Didn't Van Gogh keep a diary or write a lot of letters to his brother?
Maybe one of those would narrow down to the week in June that he
created the painting.
3) Determine which horizon direction the painting depicts (to which
Van Gogh's canvas was oriented). North-east, north, or north-west?
This is a tough one that adds alot of variability to the dates and
times that the celestial sky would best correspond to the picture.
4) If you do not already own star charting software that will accept
historical dates, download the outstanding Cartes de Ciel freeware.
It will chart historical positions.
5) Set the observing location and the target historical dates to the
month and best target day that Van Gogh painted "the Starry Night".
Look to the north horizon.
6) Then use the animation feature in 10 minute intervals to get a feel
for what the night sky looked like when the artist made the painting.
I did two trial runs:
A) June 16, 1889 near sunrise, looking north.
Having done one quick trial run for near sunrise on June 16, 1889,
with the painter looking towards the north horizon and north pole.
The position of the Big Dipper appears similar to that in the
painting. (Bowel upside-down to the north horizon and the laddle to
the east.) Venus is rising in the east horizon, analogous visually to
the bright star left of center in Van Gogh's painting, but
positionally 90 degrees from the Big Dipper (by the observer's horizon
coordinate system). The moon, in its third-quarter, analogous to the
depiction in Van Gogh's painting, appears at the south-south-west
horizon. The dark crescent is to the west and the illuminated fraction
is to the east. Positionally, the moon is almost 180 degrees ( again
by the observer's horizon system ) from the Big Dipper, in the
observer's north horizon.
B) June 10, 1889 at 9 p.m., looking northwest (better fit)
Another trial run for around 9 p.m. on June 10, 1889, gives a
plausible, better fit, if the painter is looking northwest. The Big
Dipper would appear with the Bowel upside-down to the north-northwest
horizon and the laddle is pointing to the west horizon. The Dipper's
handle is pointing to the moon, about 90 degrees away, that is an
analogous phase in the painting. The Moon is just setting at the
west-southwest horizon. The dark fractional disk and the
brighter-lighter illuminated fraction of the Moon's disk are oriented
to the Dipper's handle as they appear in the painting. Venus is just
rising in the east-east-northeast, but again, positionally 90 degrees
away from the Big Dipper.
The above approach assumes that Van Gogh's paintings were in part
related to physical reality. Between his mental illness and the
amount of woodworm he was drinking, that's a suspect assumption! -:)
Nonetheless, it's still one of the great paintings of modern times.
-:)
After you look at this further, repost and let everyone know what you
conclude the best target date ranges are for when Van Gogh painted
"The Starry Night" in June 1889.
Regards - Kurt