NASA building another $50M drone?

RichA

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Jan 13, 2023, 11:12:34 PM1/13/23

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https://phys.org/news/2023-01-nasa-titan-dragonfly-helicopter-focus.html

this one will probably cost a lot more.

Chris L Peterson

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Jan 13, 2023, 11:28:14 PM1/13/23

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On Fri, 13 Jan 2023 20:12:32 -0800 (PST), RichA <rande...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> https://phys.org/news/2023-01-nasa-titan-dragonfly-helicopter-focus.html
>
>this one will probably cost a lot more.

Given that it's the size of a small aircraft and designed to operate
reliably in a harsh enviroment, with a nuclear energy source, I'd say
yeah, millions.

StarDust

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Jan 14, 2023, 1:45:04 AM1/14/23

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On Friday, January 13, 2023 at 8:12:34 PM UTC-8, RichA wrote:
> https://phys.org/news/2023-01-nasa-titan-dragonfly-helicopter-focus.html
>
> this one will probably cost a lot more.

Nasa should send a DJI Chines drone to Mars, cost only $1000.
https://kolarivision.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/mavic-2-pro.jpg
Wasting money again!

Chris L Peterson

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Jan 14, 2023, 9:42:36 AM1/14/23

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On Fri, 13 Jan 2023 22:45:01 -0800 (PST), StarDust <cso...@gmail.com>
wrote:

The drone under discussion here isn't designed for Mars. And no drone
designed to fly in Earth's atmosphere would fly on Mars in any case.
(And I'm wondering where you'd charge it after its few flying minutes
are used up.)

StarDust

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Jan 14, 2023, 11:31:23 AM1/14/23

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Can be modified!
Da!

Chris L Peterson

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Jan 14, 2023, 3:04:55 PM1/14/23

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On Sat, 14 Jan 2023 08:31:21 -0800 (PST), StarDust <cso...@gmail.com>

wrote:

>On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 6:42:36 AM UTC-8, Chris L Peterson wrote:
>> On Fri, 13 Jan 2023 22:45:01 -0800 (PST), StarDust <cso...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >On Friday, January 13, 2023 at 8:12:34 PM UTC-8, RichA wrote:
>> >> https://phys.org/news/2023-01-nasa-titan-dragonfly-helicopter-focus.html
>> >>
>> >> this one will probably cost a lot more.
>> >
>> >Nasa should send a DJI Chines drone to Mars, cost only $1000.
>> >https://kolarivision.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/mavic-2-pro.jpg
>> >Wasting money again!
>> The drone under discussion here isn't designed for Mars. And no drone
>> designed to fly in Earth's atmosphere would fly on Mars in any case.
>> (And I'm wondering where you'd charge it after its few flying minutes
>> are used up.)
>
>Can be modified!
>Da!

Sure. Modifications that require millions of dollars in design and
testing.

RichA

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Jan 14, 2023, 9:06:15 PM1/14/23

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Despite the -200C temps, it might be easier in a way to fly on Titan than Mars because it has a dense atmosphere. Will be very interesting to see how they configure the motors to operate in those conditions.

Chris L Peterson

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Jan 15, 2023, 10:32:32 AM1/15/23

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On Sat, 14 Jan 2023 18:06:13 -0800 (PST), RichA <rande...@gmail.com>

wrote:

>On Friday, 13 January 2023 at 23:28:14 UTC-5, Chris L Peterson wrote:
>> On Fri, 13 Jan 2023 20:12:32 -0800 (PST), RichA <rande...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > https://phys.org/news/2023-01-nasa-titan-dragonfly-helicopter-focus.html
>> >
>> >this one will probably cost a lot more.
>> Given that it's the size of a small aircraft and designed to operate
>> reliably in a harsh enviroment, with a nuclear energy source, I'd say
>> yeah, millions.
>
>Despite the -200C temps, it might be easier in a way to fly on Titan than Mars because it has a dense atmosphere. Will be very interesting to see how they configure the motors to operate in those conditions.

Interesting design problems. I have to be careful using my tractor
when it gets down below -20C or so, because metal becomes brittle and
can fail easily. It's a big problem with equipment at the Antarctic
bases. There has to be some serious materials engineering to deal with
these truly extreme lows.

Quadibloc

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Jan 15, 2023, 2:39:34 PM1/15/23

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On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 8:32:32 AM UTC-7, Chris L Peterson wrote:

> Interesting design problems. I have to be careful using my tractor
> when it gets down below -20C or so, because metal becomes brittle and
> can fail easily. It's a big problem with equipment at the Antarctic
> bases. There has to be some serious materials engineering to deal with
> these truly extreme lows.

I was just recently reading an article about how someone had designed the
"toughest metal ever", an alloy of chromium, cobalt, and nickel.

https://www.livescience.com/toughest-material-nickel-cobalt-chromium-alloy

I was rather surprised that it was claimed that cobalt and nickel were
"prohibitively expensive". Costing about twice as much as the other metal,
chromium, I had not thought they were too bad for the applications that need
such an alloy as this.

As this alloy retains its toughness down to -196 Celsius, it would seem that
demanding cryogenic applications would seize on this alloy quickly. But perhaps
there are cheap iron alloys out there with which it is possible to manage.

John Savard

StarDust

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Jan 15, 2023, 3:40:06 PM1/15/23

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Titanium is the solution for extreme cold and hot environments.

StarDust

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Jan 15, 2023, 10:02:40 PM1/15/23

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On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 12:04:55 PM UTC-8, Chris L Peterson wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Jan 2023 08:31:21 -0800 (PST),

> wrote:
>
> >On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 6:42:36 AM UTC-8, Chris L Peterson wrote:
> >> On Fri, 13 Jan 2023 22:45:01 -0800 (PST),

> >> >On Friday, January 13, 2023 at 8:12:34 PM UTC-8, RichA wrote:
> >> >> https://phys.org/news/2023-01-nasa-titan-dragonfly-helicopter-focus.html
> >> >>
> >> >> this one will probably cost a lot more.
> >> >
> >> >Nasa should send a DJI Chines drone to Mars, cost only $1000.
> >> >https://kolarivision.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/mavic-2-pro.jpg
> >> >Wasting money again!
> >> The drone under discussion here isn't designed for Mars. And no drone
> >> designed to fly in Earth's atmosphere would fly on Mars in any case.
> >> (And I'm wondering where you'd charge it after its few flying minutes
> >> are used up.)
> >
> >Can be modified!
> >Da!
> Sure. Modifications that require millions of dollars in design and
> testing.

$50 million for a h-copter not cheap either?
Gold is cheaper by weight, I think?

RichA

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Jan 15, 2023, 11:39:53 PM1/15/23

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And silver is cheaper than printer ink, despite the fact you have to mine and process a lot of rock to get it. Pricing is suspect for a number of things on this planet.

StarDust

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Jan 16, 2023, 3:32:17 AM1/16/23

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Just price gauging!
Printer ink cost more than the printer!

Martin Brown

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Jan 16, 2023, 4:56:28 AM1/16/23

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There is a lot of clever chemistry in printer inks and toners - although
the main reason they are so expensive is that the price of the printer
hardware is massively subsidised by the expectation of selling you ink!

I try to find printers where the OEM cartridge lockin has been defeated
by third party ink cloners so that I pay £20-40 for a set of toner
instead of £200-300 for the OEM version.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Chris L Peterson

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Jan 16, 2023, 9:45:32 AM1/16/23

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On Sun, 15 Jan 2023 12:40:04 -0800 (PST), StarDust <cso...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Not necessarily. You don't want titanium surfaces moving against each
other.

StarDust

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Jan 16, 2023, 8:02:03 PM1/16/23

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On Monday, January 16, 2023 at 6:45:32 AM UTC-8, Chris L Peterson wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Jan 2023 12:40:04 -0800 (PST),

Maybe, other materials
can be used for bearings and moving parts.
Jet plane's engines, are mostly titanium!
There are also various Titanium alloys.
As a machinist at Aerospace co. had my share working with Titanium.
Bitch material to machine.
It has a narrow range of cutting speeds and feeds to use, or destroys the cutting tool's edge or even burns it out!
>> superalloys
The low-pressure compressor blades and several high-pressure compressor blades are made of Ti-6Al-4V alloys which are also used for the fan blade, and the rest of high-pressure compressor blades are made of Ni-based superalloys such as Hastelloy X.<<
Oh, yes!
The Hastelloy X.
If I want to die early, machine this sucker.