Info about "Bausch & Lomb Criterion 4000"
Christian Schims
very rare here in Germany. Its a Bausch & Lomb Criterion 4000 (4" SCT)
including a rifle-type finder scope and a 24mm kellner(?) eyepiece.
I even did not star-test ist. So, can anybody tell me anything about
this instrument, e.g. f-ratio, expectable quality, approx. manufacturing
time etc.
Thank in advance
Chris
Chris Marriott
Christian Schims wrote in message <381C83C4...@express.de>...
Sounds like you've got yourself a bargain there!
At one time, B&L were a very well-known SCT maker. If memory serves me
correctly, they were taken over by Celestron in the mid 1980s after which
Celestron killed the brand name.
A friend of mine has one of these scopes which he uses primarily for solar
observing - it's a very nice little portable telescope. As far as quality
goes, if it's been well looked-after it's probably pretty good - in the same
league as a telescope like the Celestron C90 certainly. It's probably f/10
or so.
In good condition it's worth perhaps around UKP 150 or so, so if you got it
at a bargain price you've done well!
Chris
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Marriott, SkyMap Software, UK (ch...@skymap.com)
Visit our web site at http://www.skymap.com
Astronomy software written by astronomers, for astronomers
Chris Marriott
Chris Marriott wrote in message
<941398444.29962.0...@news.demon.co.uk>...
>
>At one time, B&L were a very well-known SCT maker. If memory serves me
>correctly, they were taken over by Celestron in the mid 1980s after which
>Celestron killed the brand name.
I've done a little more research into this. B&L were a British telescope
maker, based in Dundee in Scotland. They were indeed taken over by
Celestron - Celestron kept some of their products, rebranding them with the
Celestron name, but scrapped the rest.
The company didn't long survive the takeover - the Dundee factory closed
shortly afterwards.
Geoff Gaherty
> Chris Marriott wrote in message
> <941398444.29962.0...@news.demon.co.uk>...
> >
> >At one time, B&L were a very well-known SCT maker. If memory serves me
> >correctly, they were taken over by Celestron in the mid 1980s after which
> >Celestron killed the brand name.
>
> I've done a little more research into this. B&L were a British telescope
> maker, based in Dundee in Scotland. They were indeed taken over by
> Celestron - Celestron kept some of their products, rebranding them with the
> Celestron name, but scrapped the rest.
>
> The company didn't long survive the takeover - the Dundee factory closed
> shortly afterwards.
Uh, Chris, you're a gold mine of misinformation today! Bausch & Lomb is
probably _the_ best known American optical company, still very much in
business! For more information, see their web site:
In the '80s, they took over an American telescope company, Criterion, which
had been around since the '50s. Criterion had tried to compete with Celestron
by producing SCTs, which were very cheaply made (cardboard tubes, no less!)
and have a very bad reputation. Bausch & Lomb tried marketing Crierion's SCTs
for a while, but gave up and went back to what they still sell today: cheap
department store scopes and a wide range of binoculars, which include cheap
junk (under the Bushnell brand name) and some very fine and expensive ones.
Although telescopes and binoculars are such a minor part of their current
operations they don't even get a mention on their web site.
Geoff Gaherty
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
http://members.home.net/ggaherty/
Ross Bench
> >I have bought a funny little scope on a flea market, that seems to be
> >very rare here in Germany. Its a Bausch & Lomb Criterion 4000 (4" SCT)
> >including a rifle-type finder scope and a 24mm kellner(?) eyepiece.
> >
Amazingly, there are still a few accessories available
for this scope.
Here is the URL:
William Hamblen
<ch.s...@express.de> wrote:
>I have bought a funny little scope on a flea market, that seems to be
>very rare here in Germany. Its a Bausch & Lomb Criterion 4000 (4" SCT)
>including a rifle-type finder scope and a 24mm kellner(?) eyepiece.
Bausch & Lomb bought Criterion about the time of the last visit of
Halley's Comet and closed the telescope factory in Danbury,
Connecticut, a few years later, so your telescope would have been made
about 1985-1988. Quality was regarded as less than that of Celestron
or Meade.
Just another user
pleased with it.
Lawrence
Christian Schims <ch.s...@express.de> wrote in message
news:381C83C4...@express.de...
> I have bought a funny little scope on a flea market, that seems to be
> very rare here in Germany. Its a Bausch & Lomb Criterion 4000 (4" SCT)
> including a rifle-type finder scope and a 24mm kellner(?) eyepiece.
>
> I even did not star-test ist. So, can anybody tell me anything about
> this instrument, e.g. f-ratio, expectable quality, approx. manufacturing
> time etc.
>
> Thank in advance
> Chris
Larry Janowicz
ch.s...@express.de wrote:
> I have bought a funny little scope on a flea market, that seems to be
> very rare here in Germany. Its a Bausch & Lomb Criterion 4000 (4" SCT)
> including a rifle-type finder scope and a 24mm kellner(?) eyepiece.
>
> I even did not star-test ist. So, can anybody tell me anything about
> this instrument, e.g. f-ratio, expectable quality, approx. manufacturing
> time etc.
>
> Thank in advance
> Chris
>
I owned one these for a while. They were sold in the mid to late 1980's.
Standard F/10 Schmidt Cassegrain in design. The astro model came with a
nice two arm fork mount. The mechanics were quite nice.
Optical quality varied greatly with most not up to par with Meade or
Celestron optics.You should star test yours.
Bausch and Lomb bought up Criterion. They made 200mm, 150mm, and 100mm
models. I believe the entire line was discontinued about tens years ago
or more by Bausch and Lomb. It has been just recently that the firm
decided to go back into the astronomical telescope business but with
reflectors instead of the Schmidt models.
--
Larry Janowicz
Black River Astronomical Society
" !"
(Harpo Marx)
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Bill Becker
ch.s...@express.de wrote:
> I have bought a funny little scope on a flea market, that seems to be
> very rare here in Germany. Its a Bausch & Lomb Criterion 4000 (4" SCT)
> including a rifle-type finder scope and a 24mm kellner(?) eyepiece.
>
> I even did not star-test ist. So, can anybody tell me anything about
> this instrument, e.g. f-ratio, expectable quality, approx.
manufacturing
> time etc.
>
> Thank in advance
> Chris
>
Hi Chris, I own one of these scopes and the optics are pretty good. It
is a much better built scope than the very toylike Meade
Etxs,(are you listening Meade?) I bought mine for about US $450.00 back
in 1982.
Bill
Paul Hyndman
"Chris Marriott" <ch...@NOSPAM.skymap.com> wrote:
> At one time, B&L were a very well-known SCT maker. If memory
> serves me correctly, they were taken over by Celestron in the
> mid 1980s after which Celestron killed the brand name.
Ahhhh... and life goes on... the bigger fish devouring the lesser!
I remember the great Criterion RV-6 and RV-8 (Newtonian reflector)
Dynascopes from the Sixties... unbeatable! The company was just up the
road a piece from me, in Hartford, CT.
Feeling the "heat" from the newly launched Celestron 8 SCT (1970ish),
they scrambled to counter-attack with their own 8" SCT, the "DynaMax".
Apparently the mechanical and optical quality was not up to the
earlier "RV" days and they eventually were taken over by Baush & Lomb.
I'm unaware of the quality in the B&L/Criterion merged lines... this
was all happening after Uncle Sam decided I needed a change of
scenery (I avoided the draft by enlisting... Hah! right back at ya'!)
and I put my "focus" elsewhere (I've only recently migrated back to the
fold of "backyard" astronomers).
Oh well, sorry if I've rambled...
Clear Skies!
Paul
--
Paul Hyndman pghy...@yahoo.com Madison, CT
Chris Marriott
Geoff Gaherty wrote in message <381CBF59...@home.com>...
>Uh, Chris, you're a gold mine of misinformation today! Bausch & Lomb is
>probably _the_ best known American optical company, still very much in
>business! For more information, see their web site:
I do apologize - I phoned up my friend who owns the scope and he's the
person who gave me this seemingly incorrect information.
I wonder if he was thinking of some other company. Anyone know of any other
telescope manufacturer who fits the story I was told?
Peter Schami
I'm copying this directly from the B&L ad in Astronomy May 1985. :-)
Mirror Dia. 4" f/12
Secondary Obstruction 35mm
FL 1200mm
Resolution Limit 1.1 arc/sec
max 30-240x
Near focus 15ft
Finderscope 4x
Enjoy,
Peter
Peter H. Proctor
>From: Peter Schami <sch...@tivoli.com>
>Subject: Re: Info about "Bausch & Lomb Criterion 4000"
>Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 21:19:42 -0600
>Christian,
>I'm copying this directly from the B&L ad in Astronomy May 1985. :-)
>Mirror Dia. 4" f/12
>Secondary Obstruction 35mm
>FL 1200mm
>Resolution Limit 1.1 arc/sec
>max 30-240x
>Near focus 15ft
>Finderscope 4x
I have one of these. Very portable. The optics are pretty good on a
star test, except for a little astigmatism. There is a bit of slack in the
mount. Otherwise a pretty good little scope, particularly with a better
eyepiece.
Dr P
larrydb...@gmail.com
> I have bought a funny little scope on a flea market, that seems to be
> very rare here in Germany. Its a Bausch & Lomb Criterion 4000 (4" SCT)
> including a rifle-type finder scope and a 24mm kellner(?) eyepiece.
>
> I even did not star-test ist. So, can anybody tell me anything about
> this instrument, e.g. f-ratio, expectable quality, approx. manufacturing
> time etc.
>
> Thank in advance
> Chris
Bausch and Lomb took over the failing Criterion Telescope company. This was in 1986 during the Halley's comet craze, nearly every Telescope company ramped up their production, and dropped quality to meet demand. The little 4000 4" F12 were no different. I have owned or worked on these when I serviced SCT's.
I found they were hit and miss as were many others, I havent looked through a really good Meade 8 or 10" Schmidt from this time frame either. I owned a Celestron Super C8 with 4 waves of Spherical aberration made in 1986.
To move on Celestron developed a way of inexpensively producing the complex Schmidt corrector plate whivh allows for the use of Spherical mirrors instead of paraboloid primary mirroes, Criterion started using the technique of placing a thin cloth between the Master Block and Corrector Blank for a better figure that Celestron developed but never Patented. After a long drawn out Legal Battle which virtually ended up with the Judge telling Celestron to Protect their method with a patent, (they unsuccessfully argued it was still in experimental stages, but were proven wrong when their sales literature stated a tried and true process)and for Criterion to stop using it, slapping both parties hands for wasting millions of Dollars in the process.
Celestron was Producing over 100 telescopes a week in 5/8/11/and 14". Criterion were producing around 100 4" (rare) 6" one in 100, and 8" telescopes.
Criterion could not afford the finantial hit so as they were about to close the Doors B&L bought the brand. The first scopes of all sizes were inconsistent (at best) in Optical quality, this reputation on top of the fact Criterion was moving virtually EVERYTHING out the door no matter of Optical quality did not help. By the way, Criterion SCT tubes were NOT Cardboard but a Poly-Resin infused material. Here is a Great article about Criterion from a former worker there.
http://www.cloudynights.com/page/articles/cat/articles/criterion-days-r2753
I have owned several of the pre-lawsuit Dynamax telescopes and they were as good as what Celestron was selling at the time. I still own examples of both a Criterion Dynamax DX6, and B&L My Friend Glil, 6000, they are both quite good with the B&L having virtually perfect optics. After Comet Halley had passed Bausch and Lomb spent a lot of money, retooling and refining the scopes, changing to Aluminum for the tube material, renaming them the 4000/6000 Pro, and 8001. I still like the Poly Resin material as it is very stable when it reaches thermal equality with the outside air, nearly as good as Carbon Fiber. The 8001 are every bit as good as anything Celestron made on a constant basis. Unfortunately it was too late, and B&L decided to pull the plug, which came down to a Corperate money decision to write off the devision. Another fact is their rear port threads are not the same as other makers. I would put my B&L scopes up against ANY scope of the same size, except for better coatings now, my old scopes are superb! The mounts have always been very good.
As another point, when Criterion was in business, they personally took care of customers with any complaint. They had an index system with full performance data from every SN# produced, and replaced under performing optics at no charge.
Today new information is being discovered that a great number of the original Dynamax scopes had some number of assembly errors that hobbyists have uncovered and corrected with positive results. Remember these were the days before laser precision for small companies.
Unfortunately there were "Lemons" sold, and resold, and resold, on the used market with each new owner passing the opinion of ALL Dynamax are bad.
I hope this has clarified some information.
Quadibloc
> I even did not star-test ist. So, can anybody tell me anything about
> this instrument, e.g. f-ratio, expectable quality, approx. manufacturing
> time etc.
It's f/12 rather than f/10 as many 8" SCTs are.
John Savard
Helpful person
Bausch and Lomb were an old time well respected optical company based in Chicago. They go back before 1900.
In the 1970s (?) they were bought by Hughes (not sure which division) and became known as Hughes Optical Products. They made various products including night vision goggles (using I squared tubes) for the military with a eyepiece lenses containing some plastics.
In the 1980s (?) they were bought by Leitz of Canada, I believe based in the Georgian Bay, north of Toronto. The Chicago factory was soon closed down and the operation moved to Canada.
Various companies have used the name as parts were spun off, the best known being the maker of contact lenses.
http://www.richardfisher.com
Uncarollo2
B&L had their own glass plant where they made a number of different glasses that were used in their products. Their grating lab was located 100 ft underground on bedrock, where they had numerous grating ruling engines operating around the clock, producing precision master gratings, some for military/space use and some for making replicas.
B&L was an old line parental type company which had company housing surrounding the factory, and even a company store for their employees to use. Most of the optical professionals were imported from Germany after the first world war, and made a lot of the optics used by our military in WW2. By the time I started working there, it was clear that their moment in history was beginning to close, and the executives were beginning to cast about for new markets. They built a new factory for contact lenses, and slowly began to shut down the old line - the glass plant was mothballed, the grating lab was shut down, and eventually the entire plant, buildings and all were razed to the ground.
The new B&L emerged, with contact lenses as their main product. All the old optical masters who had made precision optics for the military had pretty much retired by then, and no new ones were being trained. Some of the younger optical workers opened dozens of small shops in the Rochester area, and most of them have thrived. The optical industry is actually quite alive in Rochester, and it is the center of commercial and industrial production now. Not really any consumer optics being made there, so most people have not heard of these shops.
UncaB&L
Helpful person
http://www.richardfisher.com
Uncarollo2
Uncarollo2
http://www.nwmangum.com/Kodak/Rochester.html#Bausch%20and%20Lomb
Since I lived and worked there for a number of years, I got to know quite a few of the early pioneers that worked in the various optical shops in Rochester, and who built side businesses for amateur astronomy. I worked in the same department as ralph Dakin, who designed the Dakin Barlow. There were also a couple of optical engineers who designed microscope optics and had designs for astronomical eyepieces. The R&D department was also experimenting with consumer telescopes and had developed a small 100mm Maksutov that was designed to compete with the 90mm Questar. It never made it into production because production costs were too high.
RichA
> Unfortunately there were "Lemons" sold, and resold, and resold, on the used market with each new owner passing the opinion of ALL Dynamax are bad.
> I hope this has clarified some information.
wsne...@hotmail.com
I considered buying it for the fork mount.
nofk...@gmail.com
> very rare here in Germany. Its a Bausch & Lomb Criterion 4000 (4" SCT)
> including a rifle-type finder scope and a 24mm kellner(?) eyepiece.
>
> this instrument, e.g. f-ratio, expectable quality, approx. manufacturing
> time etc.
>
> Chris
I had the 8000. it was from 1981. this one is from the same line.No correcter in the entry "glass". just a glass. but its still a great scope for its size. I just got one 4000 for 150$. i'll use it as a spotting scope with 32 mmm on my c8.
RichA
sabre....@gmail.com
> I have bought a funny little scope on a flea market, that seems to be
> very rare here in Germany. Its a Bausch & Lomb Criterion 4000 (4" SCT)
> including a rifle-type finder scope and a 24mm kellner(?) eyepiece.
>
> I even did not star-test ist. So, can anybody tell me anything about
> this instrument, e.g. f-ratio, expectable quality, approx. manufacturing
> time etc.
>
> Thank in advance
> Chris
RichA
Martin Brown
> On Wednesday, 29 August 2018 10:38:16 UTC-4, sabre....@gmail.com
> wrote:
>> On Sunday, October 31, 1999 at 9:00:00 AM UTC+2, Christian Schims
>> wrote:
>>> I have bought a funny little scope on a flea market, that seems
>>> to be very rare here in Germany. Its a Bausch & Lomb Criterion
>>> 4000 (4" SCT) including a rifle-type finder scope and a 24mm
>>> kellner(?) eyepiece.
>>>
>>> I even did not star-test ist. So, can anybody tell me anything
>>> about this instrument, e.g. f-ratio, expectable quality, approx.
>>> manufacturing time etc.
>>>
>>> Thank in advance Chris
>>
>> just got this stuff from auction its comes two lance 18mm and 30mm
>> but when i look at sky at night i don't see anythings can some one
>> help me ?
>
> In the daytime, point it (using the 30mm eyepiece) at a distant
> subject and focus until it's clear. Leave it.
It won't be all that far out if you use a TV antenna just a few streets
away or the top of a chimney. Anything to get it close is worhtwhile.
> At night, point the
> scope at a light source and align the finderscope with the main
> scope. Once done, you should be able to point it at any object you
> see with your eye. If the moon is out, try it. You should only need
> to refocus a bit as an object at infinity in the daytime is going to
> be close to focus things in the sky at night. Once you learn how to
> focus the scope with the low power (30mm eyepiece) you can use the
> higher power 18mm eyepiece.
and struggle when moving a astronomical scope with the inverted image.
There are plenty of nice bright planets not that far off the horizon
after dark too. Brighter objects have the advantage that you can tell
which way to move from the glare.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown