Disappointed with binoculars - or are my eyes uncollimated?
Jeffrey Burton
this, I might've packed in this hobby right there and then!
I bought a pair of Orion Ultraview 10x50 binoculars, after having
owned a scope for a few years, and I can tell you that the scope
gives me much better views!
Ultraviews are supposed to be (according to peoples' opinions on the
net) pretty much the best binoculars for their price range (i.e.
better binoculars are much more expensive).
Either I've gotten a dud pair, or my eyes are destined not to
be able to accept the binoculars.
I can't get a focus on the brightest stars, and it's especially
noticeable on Jupiter, Saturn, and Venus.
E.g. Jupiter is a nice small white ball, but there's always some
annoying flare to one side, so that I have no hope of seeing any
moons.
The closest I can get to having a good view is to actually look
at Jupiter when it's almost at the top of the field of view, i.e.
not at the centre! At that point, the image is slightly dimmer,
but it's at least nice and round.
Yes, yes, I know a tripod would be useful, but before I invest
any more money in this, I am almost certainly sure that this
out-of-focus problem has nothing to do with the shakes, because
the flare is pretty bad, and doesn't change with less or more
shaking.
Now, my eyes do suck. With contact lenses, I'm told I have just
slightly below normal vision. With glasses it's further below that,
but still pretty good. Without glasses, it's very bad.
(It's not astigmatism but a different eye problem).
I get the best views through the telescope when I have my contact
lenses on. When I have glasses on, or nothing, I can't quite
get a focus on bright stars and the planets, even at 50x (whereas
with contact lenses, 50x always looks good, even with the scope
is way out of collimation).
So, back to the binoculars - is it just that my eyes, even with
contacts on, are destined not to see well through binoculars?
My friend (who also gets good views with the scope) claims
to be able to focus, and see Jupiter, and anything else, well.
He claims to be able to see Venus as a tiny ball. He's an
"experienced" scope viewer like me, but of course I can't see
through his eyes to verify that we agree on what a "good" view is.
I'm talking about excellent nights, when the scope is providing
pretty darn good views.
Ok, it's fun to sweep the brightest star fields, and find the
brightest star clusters, but that's about it for me.
Modmed3
Sounds to me like you might have a bad pair. I, too, own a pair of Orion
Ultraview 10x50s, and Jupiter and its moons (the 4 big ones) are clearly
resolved, both with and without my glasses (my eyes are terrible). Stars focus
to pinpoints to quite near the edge of the field of view.
Ed Todd
Michael Carnes
jeff...@plzmorespam.ar.com.au wrote on 12/3/00 5:33 AM:
> So much for "Buy binoculars before buying a scope". If I had done
> this, I might've packed in this hobby right there and then!
>
> Ultraviews are supposed to be (according to peoples' opinions on the
> net) pretty much the best binoculars for their price range (i.e.
> better binoculars are much more expensive).
>
> Either I've gotten a dud pair, or my eyes are destined not to
> be able to accept the binoculars.
>
Hi Jeffrey
Sorry you're having a problem. Back in the spring, I bought a pair of
Orion 20x80s. I had a similar problem with those binos. To shorten the
story, I went through 3 pair to get the binos I wanted. Orion was very
cheerful and helpful, and it basically just cost me the extra time.
The real bright objects like Jupiter and Venus will show a certain
amount of smear and color in virtually any binos. After all, binos are
really just very short acromat refractors (with prisms to boot). Color
problems are part of the technology. The real payoff comes in that world of
magnitude 4 to magnitude 9 or 10.
--
To reply, please remove "nospamplease" from return address.
Brian A
I own a pair of Orion Ultraview 10x50's and I am really happy with the views
I get through them. The moons of Jupiter are bright pin dots and stars are
well resolved. I have not noticed any unusual glare and they focus to very
sharp images. You may want to contact Orion and ask them to send you another
pair before you give up on them completely. Hopefully all will work out
well.
Brian Avila
Jeffrey Burton <jeff...@plzmorespam.ar.com.au> wrote in message
news:01c05d15$71eeb6a0$0f9412cb@dragon...
> So much for "Buy binoculars before buying a scope". If I had done
> this, I might've packed in this hobby right there and then!
>
> I bought a pair of Orion Ultraview 10x50 binoculars, after having
> owned a scope for a few years, and I can tell you that the scope
> gives me much better views!
>
> Ultraviews are supposed to be (according to peoples' opinions on the
> net) pretty much the best binoculars for their price range (i.e.
> better binoculars are much more expensive).
>
> Either I've gotten a dud pair, or my eyes are destined not to
> be able to accept the binoculars.
>
Esmail Bonakdarian
>
> Hi Jeffrey,
> I own a pair of Orion Ultraview 10x50's and I am really happy with the views
> I get through them. The moons of Jupiter are bright pin dots and stars are
> well resolved. I have not noticed any unusual glare and they focus to very
> sharp images. You may want to contact Orion and ask them to send you another
> pair before you give up on them completely. Hopefully all will work out
> well.
I got mine in May and at the time none of the bright planets was in view
at night. The stars look ok for the most part, but Jupiter and pretty much
any bright object in the night sky ends up having a comet tail.
I think they come with a 1 year warranty at least, I wonder if adjustment
(I assume they could be adjusted?) is covered by this or if it's too late for
that?
Anyone know?
Esmail
--
Esmail Bonakdarian - esm...@uiowa.edu - http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~bonak
Ron Kihara
<jeff...@plzmorespam.ar.com.au> wrote:
> So, back to the binoculars - is it just that my eyes, even with
> contacts on, are destined not to see well through binoculars?
> My friend (who also gets good views with the scope) claims
> to be able to focus, and see Jupiter, and anything else, well.
> He claims to be able to see Venus as a tiny ball. He's an
> "experienced" scope viewer like me, but of course I can't see
> through his eyes to verify that we agree on what a "good" view is.
The problem may be with the difference in size between the exit pupil of your
telescope and your binoculars. You didn't give any details about your
telescope, but if you have a 3" refractor, at 50x, the exit pupil would be 1.5
mm, as opposed to 5 mm in a set of 10x50 binoculars. The larger exit pupil of
the binoculars will cover a larger portion of your contact lenses, which may not
give as good a correction as the central part of the lens.
You could check this out by reducing the magnification of your telescope until
you have a 5mm exit pupil, the same as the binculars, and comparing the two.
Ian Stirling
I found that the separation of the eyepieces is crucial
to good images. I made a template to measure the
distance between my eyes. On a sheet of lined paper,
I drew a vertical line on the left hand side of the paper
and then a sloping line between two points on the right
hand side. Then I used a fine needle to punch holes
on the horizontal lines where two vertical lines meet
them. The slope of the right hand line is such that
successive lines give a change of 0.5 mm between the
holes. Looking through the holes at a bright sky it
was easy to find the holes which matched my eye
separation. Then I made a master template from that
one line. The separation scale on the binoculars is
too crude to make accurate settings so every so often,
I calibrate the separation by putting the template up
against the eyepieces. It's easy to line them up
with the centres of the eyepieces. It surprised
me the first time I did this because the binoculars
didn't seem as comfortable as before showing that I
was used to using them in a poorly aligned way.
The image quality improved a lot and I won't go
back to guesswork for serious use.
Ian
--
Ian Stirling
for my valid email address, remove NOZPAM.
Ron Wodaski
binoculars is common for folks who have astigmatism.
So binoculars may not, in fact be for you. You might try higher-powered
binos, however. They have a smaller exit pupil, and will be less of a
problem with astigmatism. Or view while wearing your glasses (you'll need
binos with enough eye relief to accommodate your glasses, of course).
Why does a large exit pupil make astigmatism problems worse? A large exit
pupil means that the diameter of the exiting light is large, and covers a
large area of your cornea. Astigmatism means there is some distortion in
your cornea, causing different parts of the eye to focus differently. When
the whole cornea is uses for focus, therefore, some parts of the image will
be out of focus, creating the flares.
If you observe with a setup that has a smaller exit pupil (for example,
higher-power binos), the light bundle is smaller, a smaller area of your
cornea is involved, and the amount of difference in focus is less as a
result (points closer together on the cornea are closer to the same focus).
So there is less flare.
I have the same problem, and I got 16x70 Fujinons. I still have _some_
flare, but it's reduced, and I have a lot more fun with binos now.
--
Ron Wodaski
http://www.newastro.com
> So, back to the binoculars - is it just that my eyes, even with
> contacts on, are destined not to see well through binoculars?
> My friend (who also gets good views with the scope) claims
> to be able to focus, and see Jupiter, and anything else, well.
> He claims to be able to see Venus as a tiny ball. He's an
> "experienced" scope viewer like me, but of course I can't see
> through his eyes to verify that we agree on what a "good" view is.
>
Ron Wodaski
is weighted on one side so that the contact will maintain the correct
orientation for proper correction. If you look up through binoculars,
gravity is less able to do its work and the contact can rotate to a position
where it makes things worse instead of better. Glasses are the only sure way
to observe while looking up through binos.
--
Ron Wodaski
http://www.newastro.com
"Ron Kihara" <rki...@home.com> wrote in message
news:rkihara-CC8C33.09194903122000@news...
> In article <01c05d15$71eeb6a0$0f9412cb@dragon>, "Jeffrey Burton"
> <jeff...@plzmorespam.ar.com.au> wrote:
>
> > So, back to the binoculars - is it just that my eyes, even with
> > contacts on, are destined not to see well through binoculars?
> > My friend (who also gets good views with the scope) claims
> > to be able to focus, and see Jupiter, and anything else, well.
> > He claims to be able to see Venus as a tiny ball. He's an
> > "experienced" scope viewer like me, but of course I can't see
> > through his eyes to verify that we agree on what a "good" view is.
>
Michael A. Covington
with a large (5 mm) exit pupil. Do you have irregular astigmatism, a past
injury to the cornea or lens, or something that would cause there to be a
"lump" in the lens system of your eye?
Axel
an eyepatch over one eye. Then look through one of the eyepieces with
your uncovered eye while aiming at Jupiter. Rotate your head. If the
flare rotates or changes in any way, then the issue is with your eyes
and is likely astigmatism. If the flare doesn't move, you need to send
the binos back to Orion and get them repaired or replaced. Try this
procedure on both eyepieces. It could be that only one of the
eyepieces is bad).
Mild astigmatism and flares/spikes with 5-7mm exit pupils is quite
common.
Ritesh
In article <01c05d15$71eeb6a0$0f9412cb@dragon>,
"Jeffrey Burton" <jeff...@plzmorespam.ar.com.au> wrote:
> So, back to the binoculars - is it just that my eyes, even with
> contacts on, are destined not to see well through binoculars?
> My friend (who also gets good views with the scope) claims
> to be able to focus, and see Jupiter, and anything else, well.
> He claims to be able to see Venus as a tiny ball. He's an
> "experienced" scope viewer like me, but of course I can't see
> through his eyes to verify that we agree on what a "good" view is.
>
> I'm talking about excellent nights, when the scope is providing
> pretty darn good views.
>
> Ok, it's fun to sweep the brightest star fields, and find the
> brightest star clusters, but that's about it for me.
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Frank Bov
suggests, and if the problem travels with the binos, send them back. It's
unlikely that optical defects will be identical left and right, as well as
rotationally symetric.
I have a pair, too, and I can't recommend a tripod enough. They have a 10 year
warranty.
Have fun,
Frank
"Axel" <rites...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:90e7gd$e9m$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Marty
could be in your eyes. Do you notice the problem with distant bright
lights when driving at night? I don't know if my problems are due to my
astigmatism or early cataracts, but with my left eye, a distant light
explodes into a large, three pronged "clock face" reading 20 seconds
after 4. With my right eye, the view just smudges out a little, but I
figure this is why I'm better with dim fuzzies than planets.
Last night, I was able to see at least 3 of Jupiter's moons strung
out east of the planet with 11 x 80 binocs, but only by laying in the
snow as I looked straight up.
Marty
Esmail Bonakdarian
>
> I'd try some other binoculars and see what happens, but the problem
> could be in your eyes.
Hi Marty,
I hadn't even thought about that (both trying other binocs or that the problem
could be with my eyes).
I haven't noticed a problem with my eyes, and when I look through my ST80
it looks ok.
I have an old vintage pair of binocs I'll try.
squ...@earthlink.net
where the muscles are not able to fully focus the image in my right eye. I
too have a pair of Orion Ultraviews 10x50's. I also have noticed this
problem, except I also have a problem with a double image. The left eye is
stronger and thus the dominant eye under normal circumstances. When using
the binos the image is split and the left eye cannot compensate for the
right, so two images are seen. This results in comet tails and a strange
combination of a half image combined with a full image (sorta a full moon
with a crescent right next to it.) When looking at the Pleides I see two
complete sets of stars overlapping. It is a little annoying, but just by
closing my right or left eye the image returns to normal. So I use my
binos with both eyes to scan and then close my right eye to observe. Oddly
enough, when viewing during the day or looking at ground based objects,
birds, cars, houses, people the doubling effect is no where as bad and I
can use both eyes with just a hint of out of focus.
Later,
Chris
In article <3a2a8...@news.nwlink.com>, "Ron Wodaski"
<rwod...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Sounds like you have astigmatism. That flare on bright objects with
> binoculars is common for folks who have astigmatism.
>
> So binoculars may not, in fact be for you. You might try higher-powered
> binos, however. They have a smaller exit pupil, and will be less of a
> problem with astigmatism. Or view while wearing your glasses (you'll need
> binos with enough eye relief to accommodate your glasses, of course).
>
> Why does a large exit pupil make astigmatism problems worse? A large exit
> pupil means that the diameter of the exiting light is large, and covers a
> large area of your cornea. Astigmatism means there is some distortion in
> your cornea, causing different parts of the eye to focus differently. When
> the whole cornea is uses for focus, therefore, some parts of the image will
> be out of focus, creating the flares.
>
> If you observe with a setup that has a smaller exit pupil (for example,
> higher-power binos), the light bundle is smaller, a smaller area of your
> cornea is involved, and the amount of difference in focus is less as a
> result (points closer together on the cornea are closer to the same focus).
> So there is less flare.
>
> I have the same problem, and I got 16x70 Fujinons. I still have _some_
> flare, but it's reduced, and I have a lot more fun with binos now.
>
> --
> Ron Wodaski
> http://www.newastro.com
>
>
> "Jeffrey Burton" <jeff...@plzmorespam.ar.com.au> wrote in message
> news:01c05d15$71eeb6a0$0f9412cb@dragon...
Chris N.
left and right eyepieces by adjusting the single-eyepiece focus
mechanism. What I didn't realize, not being very familiar with binos,
is that focus wasn't necessarily static. So several days later, I
couldn't get Jupiter in focus, no matter how hard I tried. I couldn't
get a sharp image, because one eyepiece would be in focus, but the
other would be slightly out. Of course, your brain doesn't see two
images (one in focus and one out of focus) but rather one out-of-focus
image.
The solution (which you probably already know) is to use the central
focus knob to focus the EP that doesn't have it's own focusser, then to
focus the individual-EP second. This double-checking each one
individually (as Ritesh suggests) is the best way to make sure you're
getting a crisp image.
I hope this helps, rather than confuses.
Chris
In article <90e7gd$e9m$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
Axel <rites...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> To determine if the problem is with the binos or with your eyes, wear
> an eyepatch over one eye. Then look through one of the eyepieces with
> your uncovered eye while aiming at Jupiter. Rotate your head. If the
> flare rotates or changes in any way, then the issue is with your eyes
> and is likely astigmatism. If the flare doesn't move, you need to
send
> the binos back to Orion and get them repaired or replaced. Try this
> procedure on both eyepieces. It could be that only one of the
> eyepieces is bad).
>
> Mild astigmatism and flares/spikes with 5-7mm exit pupils is quite
> common.
>
> Ritesh
>
> In article <01c05d15$71eeb6a0$0f9412cb@dragon>,
> "Jeffrey Burton" <jeff...@plzmorespam.ar.com.au> wrote: