What't happened to Astromart?
John Kulczycki
I've been away from it for a few months and now coming back I notice it
is just a shadow of its former self.
I've noticed that there are now very few seller. Some are posting
numerous times, sometimes within the same day, with the same equipment,
as well as a few very flaky sellers. A lot of the equipment seems to be
flipped onto the site by local bargain hunters looking to make some
bucks.
What gives?
Where is everyone else posting their equipment?
Thanks
John
Jon Isaacs
>numerous times, sometimes within the same day, with the same equipment,
>as well as a few very flaky sellers.
I think if you look through all current 800+ posts you will see that there are
a great variety of items and sellers. I think what has happened it that volume
has increased.
jon isaacs
Rod Mollise
>
>I've been away from it for a few months and now coming back I notice it
>is just a shadow of its former self.
Hi:
Maybe what you're noticing are some format changes? Frankly there seems to be
as much or more of everything to me.
Peace,
Rod Mollise
Author of _Choosing and Using a Schmidt Cassegrain Telescope_
Like SCTs and MCTs?
Check-out sct-user, the mailing list for CAT fanciers!
Goto <http://members.aol.com/RMOLLISE/index.html>
Michael Richmann
>
> What's happened to Astromart?
>
> I've been away from it for a few months and now coming back I notice it
> is just a shadow of its former self.
>
> I've noticed that there are now very few seller. Some are posting
> numerous times, sometimes within the same day, with the same equipment,
> as well as a few very flaky sellers. A lot of the equipment seems to be
> flipped onto the site by local bargain hunters looking to make some
> bucks.
>
> What gives?
Looks pretty much the same to me in terms of volume. Particular types
of sellers are broken out by color code unlike the old days but that's
about the only major change I'm aware of...
> Where is everyone else posting their equipment?
Well, if you *really* want to see flaky sellers and flipped equipment,
there's always E-bay.
Szaki
Astromart. Astromart has way too many browser costumes, not buying , only
looking. I tried to sell an 8" SCT on Astromart one time, it had over 400
hits, but no buyer plus I had to answer a bunch of e-mails. I reposted it
twice, no luck. After, moved it to e-bay, it sold the first time for more
money than I was expecting it. Yes, there is some fee, but e-bay has larger
exposure and more known than AM.
Julius
"John Kulczycki" <john.ku...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3CE64E08...@sympatico.ca...
Gary Irwin
news:%NwF8.17547$Bw6...@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...
> E-bay is the other place to post. Some times I had more luck there than
> Astromart. Astromart has way too many browser costumes, not buying , only
> looking. I tried to sell an 8" SCT on Astromart one time, it had over 400
> hits, but no buyer plus I had to answer a bunch of e-mails. I reposted it
> twice, no luck. After, moved it to e-bay, it sold the first time for more
> money than I was expecting it. Yes, there is some fee, but e-bay has
larger
> exposure and more known than AM.
> Julius
This is interesting. I wonder why that is? I would assume that buyers of an
8" SCT on Astromart and ebay would have to be knowledgeable - your average
joe on ebay wouldn't even know what and SCT telescope is. So is it the
bidding psychology on ebay that gets people psyched up?
Gary
Shultz
I have seen items selling used for more than you can buy new for. When
bidding, this gets very frustrating and I try not to bid anymore.
"Gary Irwin" <ga...@DELETECAPSrogers.com> wrote in message
news:1mAF8.49901$t8_....@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
Paul Stock
practically my homepage. However, I generally fetch somewhat more on Ebay
compared to what I get offered for the same items when listing them on
Astromart. A while back I listed some Naglers on Astromart and got a flood
of lowball offers and no sales. I decided to be patient and listed them on
Ebay with a reserve price set approximately at my Astromart asking price. I
ended up selling each of them for ~$40 more than my Astromart asking price,
before Ebay's fees (and would have probably had to accept less on
Astromart).
I've heard some say they do (much) better selling quality telescopes on Ebay
(lately), plus they don't have to deal with a lot of lowball offers. I also
believe buyers on Astromart are more likely to drive a bargain, but you can
sell stuff quickly if you are willing to sell at the right price. That said,
if your equipment is really specialized, you would probably do better on
Astromart, but I'd probably still be willing to try Ebay with an appropriate
reserve.
After watching Astromart almost daily for a few years (it's very
enjoyable--I check A-mart, SAA and Ebay almost every day) and conducting
several (but not several dozen or hundreds) of transactions, I think a lot
of stuff sells for less than it gets listed for, but maybe it'd be better to
ask someone who buys and sells more than I do. I like buying and selling at
both.
Cheers~
Paul Stock
Salt Lake City
"Szaki" <sza...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:%NwF8.17547$Bw6...@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...
Jon Isaacs
be better to
>ask someone who buys and sells more than I do. I like buying and selling at
>both.
My experiences with Astromart have almost all been good. I think there is a
small amount of bargining in the 10% range but I have never done the lowball
thing myself.
In general the prices are reasonable, almost always between 50% and 75% of new
cost. To me this is reasonable. Ebay on the other hand sometimes stuff sells
for more than the new cost.
I have never considered either buying or selling something on Ebay. Certainly
I might have gotten a "better" price but for me, the price is only part of the
equation.
Rather, I like to carryout a friendly and open transaction on a personal level.
I also like to handle the actual transaction in person, see the goods and meet
the person. I also like to know that the price was fair and not the result of
ignorance or a frenzied last minute of an auction. Not only do I want to buy
something at a good price but for me to be comfortable with a transaction, I
need to know that I did not "take avantage" of a buyer.
Astromart offers the personal interaction, much like buying and selling between
two club members and this suits my needs. Meeting someone half-way and
shooting the breeze for a hour or two while completing the transaction is
certainly preferable to waiting for the auction to close and then wondering if
you are dealing with an honest seller or a crook.
And from reading the bicycle newsgroups, misrepresentation is much more common
on Ebay than astromart.
Jon "astromart is a great place" Isaacs
Paul Stock
Good points. Here's a long reply ;^).
I always communicate with Ebay sellers to try and determine what kind of
person I'm dealing with prior to placing a bid, much like I used to
communicate with Astromart sellers prior to the rating system (and still
do).
It is worth mentioning that I gave perfectly accurate descriptions and
included my phone number in my Ebay descriptions (see my recent archived
auctions), actually taking phone calls regarding my astro items and followed
up with the buyers to ensure their satisfaction. Most of my several
transactions on Ebay both as a buyer and a seller (eyepieces, cameras,
computers, etc.) have been exceptional and very personable. I recently
bought some vintage Naglers on Ebay, probably paying more than if they had
they crossed through Astromart, but they rarely do. I was tickled with my
pristine, smooth-barrel first-generation Nagler purchases, even if I did pay
$265 for a 9mm and $305 for a 13mm.
Most of my Astromart experiences have been equally good, with one exception
where a "now reformed" regular on A-M (since the rating system went in
place) sold me a 35mm Panoptic for a high price, described "as new", but
arriving with obvious defects from abuse--refusing to refund my money.
Instead I was directed to file a fraudulent postal insurance claim by the
Astromart regular. Not willing to live with the eyepiece, I sold it with
full disclosure to another regular here on SAA for an almost $100 loss.
There are bad eggs in every basket (but Herb has done a great job minimizing
the risks there--thanks, Herb).
Living on the "island" metropolis of Salt Lake City, there just aren't
enough people in driving distance to hope for a person-to-person astro
transaction in most instances. I would enjoy that, but the local astro
market is too small.
My final sales prices for my Naglers I listed on Ebay were probably 90% +/-
of new, but my reserve was much lower and they were pristine/mint--hardly a
mark on them to distinguish them from new. I'm personally willing to pay
90%+ for mint myself (and even more than the former new price for
discontinued astro collectables in mint condition). Each of the buyers
communicated with me after delivery to say they were very pleased with what
they received, and the feedback they left reflected that satisfaction.
To me, 50% - 75% of new might be acceptable for a used item in "good to VG"
or perhaps "useable" condition, but I rarely buy items in that condition. I
consider 75% of new for a quality item in mint condition to be sort-of an
insult, both as a buyer and as a seller, but I acknowledge that everyone is
different. Some buyers think it is an insult for a seller to expect more
that 75% for something that is not being sold new across a counter. As both
buyer and seller, obviously that is not me. I think so long as the item is
honestly represented and both the buyer and seller are pleased with the
outcome, it was an ethical, win-win transaction. Of course the "75% is as
high as I go crowd" is going to be disappointed often by those willing to
pay more, but there's nothing inherently unethical about a 90% transaction
(or even higher/lower).
I should say that on two occasions as an Ebay seller, the last minute
"bidding frenzy" resulted in closing bids that exceeded what I was expecting
by a significant margin and I offered to sell the items to the high bidders
for a lower amount--closer to what I had originally hoped for. Both times
the buyers refused and paid the higher closing bid amount (which was
probably the fairest thing to do in consideration of the bids placed by the
second highest bidders).
In my opinion, Ebay is a viable place to conduct business as long as you
have a level head as a buyer, deal honestly as a seller, and try to get to
know sellers prior to placing a bid.
May streetlamps grow faint at your approach,
Paul
"Jon Isaacs" <joni...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020519101355...@mb-cj.aol.com...
> >I think a lot of stuff sells for less than it gets listed for, but maybe
it'd
> be better to
> >ask someone who buys and sells more than I do. I like buying and selling
at
> >both.
>
> My experiences with Astromart have almost all been good. I think there is
a
> small amount of bargaining in the 10% range but I have never done the
lowball
> thing myself.
>
> In general the prices are reasonable, almost always between 50% and 75% of
new
> cost. To me this is reasonable. Ebay on the other hand sometimes stuff
sells
> for more than the new cost.
>
> I have never considered either buying or selling something on Ebay.
Certainly
> I might have gotten a "better" price but for me, the price is only part of
the
> equation.
>
> Rather, I like to carryout a friendly and open transaction on a personal
level.
> I also like to handle the actual transaction in person, see the goods and
meet
> the person. I also like to know that the price was fair and not the
result of
> ignorance or a frenzied last minute of an auction. Not only do I want to
buy
> something at a good price but for me to be comfortable with a transaction,
I
> need to know that I did not "take advantage" of a buyer.
J. Jason Fry
I've done several transactions on Astomart and have been pleased, and I
have bought one eyepiece on ebay that I'm happy with. But I have found
looking on ebay a frustrating experience. What category is used for items
like eyepieces, etc.? There is no astronomy category, unlike other
categories for hobbies they have. I would be interested in knowing so I
could find scopes, eyepieces, etc. and where I might offer such items for
sale on ebay if I choose to. Thanks for your help.
Jason Fry
Kingsville, TX USA
"Paul Stock" <comab...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:uAIF8.241$Z_2...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Great Deals
"J. Jason Fry" <jaso...@interconnect.net> wrote in message
news:3ce7e...@corp-news.newsgroups.com...
> Paul,
> I've done several transactions on Astomart and have been pleased,
and I
> have bought one eyepiece on ebay that I'm happy with. But I have
found
> looking on ebay a frustrating experience. What category is used for
items
> like eyepieces, etc.? There is no astronomy category, unlike other
> categories for hobbies they have. I would be interested in knowing so
I
> could find scopes, eyepieces, etc. and where I might offer such items
for
> sale on ebay if I choose to. Thanks for your help.
>
> Jason Fry
> Kingsville, TX USA
Why search by category where there is a chance the seller has
mis-located it in the WRONG category, because he/she too, could not find
the appropriate one to place it in.
Just do a search from eBay's main page for "telescope", "Meade",
eyepiece, or "eye piece" and you're sure to get the largest possible
grouping of hits. You can even save your search so that any future
listings with a similar keyword in the description, results in you
receiving an e-mail to notify you of the URL to visit.
--
Gil "eyes to the sky" Tennant
43° 32.348' N / 78° 34.867' W
(Ontario, Canada)
astr...@rogers.com
eBay ID = astronut_ca
Bill Becker
Here's a link:
http://listings.ebay.com/aw/listings/list/all/category3636/index.html
Of course, like someone has already mentioned, "mistakes" are likely to
happen.
Best regards,
Bill
lal_truckee
>
> I've been away from it for a few months and now coming back I notice it
> is just a shadow of its former self.
>
> I've noticed that there are now very few seller. Some are posting
> numerous times, sometimes within the same day, with the same equipment,
> as well as a few very flaky sellers. A lot of the equipment seems to be
> flipped onto the site by local bargain hunters looking to make some
> bucks.
>
> What gives?
Well, for one thing, as a potential buyer I'm not allowed to contact a
seller and buy anything. Kind of stupid. The site says I have to
register to be a buyer, but when I try it says I can't register as a
"SELLER" with my yahoo address.
Points:
All I want to do is buy something.
I'm not even a potential seller at this time.
FWIW, my yahoo address is my only e-mail address for private
interactions.
If Astrmart wants to put restrictions on sellers I don't care - dumb,
but not my problem (dumb because there are other valid ways to assure
both buyer and seller protection beside a lame address restriction.)
But restrictions on buyers? That's REALLY dumb.
So I'm a potential buyer cut off from purchasing on Astrmart, which
may answer your question. (BTW, I intended to buy an Antares 8x50 45
degree finder with SCT bracket this time, but I'm SOL.)
Paul Stock
buyer with free email could cause--and nothing is springing to mind since
sellers can avoid trouble by simple protective measures--but Astromart's
policy is likely due to the fact that their system makes no distinction
between buyer accounts and seller accounts--once you're in the club, you can
do whatever you want. That's my guess, anyway.
Obviously, eliminating the Yahoo, Hotmail and other free email accounts for
sellers ensures that if a deal goes bad , the culprit can be tracked down
using verified info.
Paul
"lal_truckee" <lal_t...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:7117b86a.02052...@posting.google.com...
Shneor Sherman
under the sole and total control of Mr. York. I guess that the
objective is to be able to charge buyers and/or sellers for completed
transactions, as Mr. York is now privy to all the details of the
transaction and could charge a percentage of the transaction as a fee.
Remember, Mr. York has unequivocally stated his intent to make money
from Astromart. That's certainly his right. That's also why I won't
"open an account" on Astromart, when there are similar services such
as Astronomy Mall whose stated intent is to provide a free service to
the amateur astronomy community.
Clear skies,
Shneor Sherman
"Paul Stock" <comab...@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<cVgG8.2293$jA6...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
Herb York
"Shneor Sherman" <shn...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:9dedb1fb.02052...@posting.google.com...
> The only reason that comes to mind is the creation of a closed system
> under the sole and total control of Mr. York. I guess that the
> objective is to be able to charge buyers and/or sellers for completed
> transactions,
Well you guessed WRONG.
as Mr. York is now privy to all the details of the
> transaction and could charge a percentage of the transaction as a fee.
Just how am I "privy" to the details of the transaction. I am real
interested in your answer here so please do run off.
> Remember, Mr. York has unequivocally stated his intent to make money
> from Astromart.
If AstroMart doesn't make enough to create a profit it will die. I have
dumped all the money I'm going to into it.
That's certainly his right. That's also why I won't
> "open an account" on Astromart, when there are similar services such
> as Astronomy Mall whose stated intent is to provide a free service to
> the amateur astronomy community.
Interesting. My somewhat educated guess is that the "other" site you mention
still creates more (net for cetain and gross most likely) revenue for it's
owner than AstroMart does for it's owner. AstroMart so far this year has
reinvested over $5,000 in "improvements" and I would venture to say that
AstroMart's operating costs (mostly because of it's size and bandwidth
requirements) are MUCH higher.
AstroMart will give FREE service to more people TODAY than other "similar"
sites will this month or monthS.
AstroMart will be seen by more people TODAY than other "similar" sites will
be seen in several months.
AstroMart is contiually upgrading - adding features - providing FREE service
and trying to find new ways to create income. I thought those were good old
American values.
Thank you
Herb York
ASTROMART
> Clear skies,
> Shneor Sherman
Great Deals
<grin>
--
Gil "eyes to the sky" Tennant
43° 32.348' N / 78° 34.867' W
(Ontario, Canada)
astr...@rogers.com
"Shneor Sherman" <shn...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:9dedb1fb.02052...@posting.google.com...
Herb York
Herb
"Shneor Sherman" <shn...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:9dedb1fb.02052...@posting.google.com...
> The only reason that comes to mind is the creation of a closed system
> under the sole and total control of Mr. York. I guess that the
> objective is to be able to charge buyers and/or sellers for completed
> transactions,
Well you guessed WRONG.
as Mr. York is now privy to all the details of the
> transaction and could charge a percentage of the transaction as a fee.
Just how am I "privy" to the details of the transaction. I am real
interested in your answer here so please don't run off.
> Remember, Mr. York has unequivocally stated his intent to make money
> from Astromart.
If AstroMart doesn't make enough to create a profit it will die. I have
dumped all the money I'm going to into it.
That's certainly his right. That's also why I won't
> "open an account" on Astromart, when there are similar services such
> as Astronomy Mall whose stated intent is to provide a free service to
> the amateur astronomy community.
Interesting. My somewhat educated guess is that the "other" site you mention
still creates more (net for certain and gross most likely) revenue for it's
owner than AstroMart does for it's owner. AstroMart so far this year has
reinvested over $5,000 in "improvements" and I would venture to say that
AstroMart's operating costs (mostly because of it's size and bandwidth
requirements) are MUCH higher.
AstroMart will give FREE service to more people TODAY than other "similar"
sites will this month or monthS.
AstroMart will be seen by more people TODAY than other "similar" sites will
be seen in several months.
AstroMart is continually upgrading - adding features - providing FREE
Mark Wagner
>
>
>Interesting. My somewhat educated guess is that the "other" site you mention
>still creates more (net for cetain and gross most likely) revenue for it's
>owner than AstroMart does for it's owner. AstroMart so far this year has
>reinvested over $5,000 in "improvements" and I would venture to say that
>AstroMart's operating costs (mostly because of it's size and bandwidth
>requirements) are MUCH higher.
Dear Herb,
I beleive the discussion was comparing AstroMart to Free Astronomy Classifieds,
not to Astronomy-Mall.com.
Astronomy-Mall and Free Astronomy Classifieds are two entirely separate models.
Astronomy-Mall is a for profit site. Vendors pay to advertise there (as you kow
from when you advertised on the site).
Free Astronomy Classifieds (FAC) is not and has never been for profit. Ask
anyone that has ever posted an ad there, they'll tell you too.
FAC, which can be found at Astronomy-Mall.com allows anyone to post ads to buy,
sell, etc., without any requirement to pay a cent. You are certainly welcome to
post ads for Anacortes Wild Bird and Telescope (which, along with AstroMart, is
your for profit site) on Free Astronomy Classifieds without cost, as do other
dealers, traders, or occasional buyers or sellers. You don't need to be a
"member" to do so either... FAC is open to everyone without preconditions (other
than to be honest).
All I'm asking is that you keep Astronomy-Mall and FAC separate in future
discussions when you talk about "profit"... their purposes and goals are
entirely different. I know we've had this discussion publicly before.
I reiterate, Free Astronomy Classifieds is not a for profit venture, which is
one of things that differentiates it from your business. It is for the use and
benefit of the astronomy community. That has always been and continues to be
the sole purpose for FAC.
I'll now bow out of this discussion, as I do not want to be involved in your
disuptes or arguments.
Regards,
Mark Wagner
Support FREE Astronomy Classfieds at http://Astronomy-Mall.com
San Francisco bay star parties: The Astronomy Connectin (TAC) http://observers.org
Shingletown Star Party: http://www201.pair.com/resource/resource-intl/ssp.html
La Caja de Los Gatos Obseratory: 37:13:36N 121:58:25W
lal_truckee
> the proof read version - sorry
>
I think I stepped into something with which I didn't mean to get
involved. I'm not taking any sides in what appears to be another
net-flap over nothing. AstroMart certainly looks like an inviting
site, and I've found several things I might like to buy, over a short
time.
All I was commenting on was that I couldn't buy something from an
AstroMart seller because the site won't let me find out how to contact
the seller unless I provide what I consider unneccesary personal
contact information to the site, not just to the seller. As the
AstroMart site itself implies, there are problems on the net with
missuse of personal information.
AstroMart in all likelihood is that rare site which will never misuse
personal contact info. I was just commenting that traffic through
AstroMart, and subsequent slowness in sales, might be impacted by
losing other potential buyers also put off by providing personal
information.
FWIW, (<ztr...@fidalgo.net> does not look like the personal address a
"Herb York" would select, so you may already know what I'm saying
about not providing personal e-mail addresses haphazardly.)
lal_truckee
>
Oh, I forgot to mention - I'm STILL interested in purchases from
AstroMart sellers, if I could do so without providing personal contact
info when unnecessary.
Herb York
<Snip>
> AstroMart in all likelihood is that rare site which will never misuse
> personal contact info. I was just commenting that traffic through
> AstroMart, and subsequent slowness in sales, might be impacted by
> losing other potential buyers also put off by providing personal
> information.
AstroMart will not be accepting yahoo or hotmail or mail.com accounts.
>
> FWIW, (<ztr...@fidalgo.net> does not look like the personal address a
> "Herb York" would select, so you may already know what I'm saying
> about not providing personal e-mail addresses haphazardly.)
I agree - only an idiot would have an email address like ztr...@fidalgo.net
BUT I have had it for 6 or 7 years.
Thank you
Herb
he...@buytelescopes.com <g>
Herb York
Sorry - as stated here in another posting. There are sites that will let you
do that. AstroMart is not one of them.
Thank you
Herb
AstroMart
CHASLX200
>From: "Herb York" ztr...@fidalgo.net
>Date: 5/21/2002 8:04 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <ehBG8.2948$u7.2...@news.direcpc.com>
>
>
>Sorry - as stated here in another posting. There are sites that will let you
>do that. AstroMart is not one of them.
>Thank you
>Herb
>AstroMart
>*****************************************
You are doing a great job Herb!
Keep up the good work, i know it must be a pain, i would never do it...
Chas P. A happy astromart user.
Paul Stock
Clear, concise, and balanced response. You already know from my comments
up-thread that I like Astromart a lot, even though I've had my minor "small
OEM" grumbles... and just to make my appeals again... ;^)... I believe
small ATM/OEMs should be permitted personal accounts since they do not
benefit selling OEM wares apart from their companies through personal
accounts--they need and want the advertising. I also believe it very
restrictive to prevent OEMs who choose not to sponsor from being permitted
personal accounts to buy/sell equipment for personal use since the owners of
these companies are just like any other amateur who wants to find or sell
equipment for personal use...
(What if Dave Kriege of Obsession wanted to buy a used refractor for
personal use? Why should Obsession have to sponsor Astromart for him to do
so?) That just seems crazy to me.
That said, I have to admit my perception is that Astromart has become a much
safer place to buy and sell, and you've even got forums that work--no small
feat. I suppose it's a backhanded compliment to say Astromart is like
Microsoft--I hate Microsoft for its heavy-handedness, but I am delighted to
use all their products. Keep up the good work, but please try to cut some
slack when you finally can ;^). (Please!)
Thanks--
Paul Stock
Salt Lake City
"Herb York" <ztr...@fidalgo.net> wrote in message
news:ehBG8.2948$u7.2...@news.direcpc.com...
Herb York
I suggest that you contact any or all of the OEM's that advertise on
AstroMart and ask them how they have been treated by me.
I encourage anyone to do that BTW.
I really try to be fair to these guys that make the products we all use. Ask
them - PLEASE.
Believe it or not there are people that have accounts that - work for my
competitors that don't sponsor- have OEM businesses and don't sponsor - are
dealers and don't sponsor - are garage dealers etc. I know they are there,
they (some of them) know I know and in some cases they simply asked in
private and we agreed on the "rules" before hand. I don't have a good sense
of humor when someone slams AstroMart with their ads for profit and have not
contacted me before hand. In other words - Dave contacts me before hand and
says " I want an AstroMart account to watch for a used StarMaster but I'm
not interested in selling my scopes or scope parts" he will get one
response - if Dave gets an AstroMart account and starts advertising his
products without sponsoring and or contacting me first he would get quite a
different response. Now if Dave is a dealer that does used scopes on his
site or is active on an auction site I'm not inclined to give him an account
just to see him buying up AstroMart stuff and reselling it for a profit if
he does not sponsor AstroMart.
If you get me on a good day I can even be reasonable. Hard to believe I know
but....
Thank you
Herb
AstroMart
"Paul Stock" <comab...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:LVFG8.245$c_....@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Al M
Hi Herb,
I know you are a fine and honorable businessman.
I made a remark in your support a number of days back. Shortly, I
received a personal email with rantings from someone by the name of
Gary. Possibly, others have received similar communications.
There appears to be an assumption by a minority that it is a
free-for-all at the expense of legitimate business trying to serve the
public and stay in the black. The recent rantings against Sky &
Telescope because their reviews are no longer free is ludricous. Here
is an older well, established, publishing house that simply wants
remain profitable.
How is Arizona?
Al M Sirius Optics
"Herb York" <ztr...@fidalgo.net> wrote in message news:<oSGG8.2964$u7.2...@news.direcpc.com>...
astronomikon
classifieds.
But the last time I went to the classifieds, there was a
"registration" including an "agreement" which appeared to be signing
away any rights I had, including some guaranteed by the U.S.
Constitution. So I will not be using those classifieds any more. I
suspect that this was an overreaction to some of the detractors of
Astro-Mart. Dorkdom wins again!!
Shneor Sherman
> "Shneor Sherman" <shn...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:9dedb1fb.02052...@posting.google.com...
> > The only reason that comes to mind is the creation of a closed system
> > under the sole and total control of Mr. York. I guess that the
> > objective is to be able to charge buyers and/or sellers for completed
> > transactions,
>
> Well you guessed WRONG.
>
>
> as Mr. York is now privy to all the details of the
> > transaction and could charge a percentage of the transaction as a fee.
>
> Just how am I "privy" to the details of the transaction. I am real
> interested in your answer here so please do run off.
>
Dear Mr. York:
Since all the e-mail has to go through Astromart, you have access to
the transaction information. I know you personally read all the posts
(or at least, you have claimed that in the past). Why would you want
all the transaction e-mail to flow through Astromart if you were not
going to inspect it? Again, I support your right to do exactly that,
as you are the owner of Astromart and can -and do - run it as you see
fit. I prefer to do business differently, without having my
communications monitored.
>
> > Remember, Mr. York has unequivocally stated his intent to make money
> > from Astromart.
>
> If AstroMart doesn't make enough to create a profit it will die. I have
> dumped all the money I'm going to into it.
>
>
> That's certainly his right. That's also why I won't
> > "open an account" on Astromart, when there are similar services such
> > as Astronomy Mall whose stated intent is to provide a free service to
> > the amateur astronomy community.
>
>
> Interesting. My somewhat educated guess is that the "other" site you mention
> still creates more (net for cetain and gross most likely) revenue for it's
> owner than AstroMart does for it's owner. AstroMart so far this year has
> reinvested over $5,000 in "improvements" and I would venture to say that
> AstroMart's operating costs (mostly because of it's size and bandwidth
> requirements) are MUCH higher.
Your investment is totally voluntary. No one twisted your arm or
forced you to invest a penny in Astromart, which was running just fine
for years. As a user, I very much prefer the Astronomy Mall model -
what Astromart used to be.
> AstroMart will give FREE service to more people TODAY than other "similar"
> sites will this month or monthS.
> AstroMart will be seen by more people TODAY than other "similar" sites will
> be seen in several months.
> AstroMart is contiually upgrading - adding features - providing FREE service
> and trying to find new ways to create income. I thought those were good old
> American values.
>
> Thank you
> Herb York
> ASTROMART
Good old American values also include privacy. Good old American
values don't force you to create an "account". The existence of
"accounts" is what puts people at risk, especially when such
information is compromised. It's happened many times to web-based
businesses. There's absolutely no reason for it.
Clear, dark skies to you.
Shneor Sherman
>
> > Clear skies,
> > Shneor Sherman
Herb York
Ha ha!! Just kidding!!
Arizona is fine. I NEVER thought I would say this but.....we could use
"some" rain.
Thank you
Herb
"Al M" <misi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bc2d008a.02052...@posting.google.com...
Herb York
users and requests by AstroMart users.
There is NO question that given a choice of NO RULES and RULES I would
prefer to operate the NO RULES site.
MOST of the changes in AstroMart over the past 2 years have been at the
request or complaints from you guessed it - AstroMart USERS.
Thank you
Herb
"astronomikon" <bif...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ef129363.02052...@posting.google.com...
Herb York
news:9dedb1fb.02052...@posting.google.com...
> "Herb York" <ztr...@fidalgo.net> wrote in message
news:<FUuG8.2911$u7.2...@news.direcpc.com>...
> > "Shneor Sherman" <shn...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> Dear Mr. York:
> Since all the e-mail has to go through Astromart, you have access to
> the transaction information. I know you personally read all the posts
> (or at least, you have claimed that in the past). Why would you want
> all the transaction e-mail to flow through Astromart if you were not
> going to inspect it?
I'm going to make a leap of faith here that you can know or do know the
difference between a "post" and an "email".
I case you don't please let me explain.
When an AstroMart user places and ad and hits the SUBMIT button it is
emailed out to thousands of other AstroMart users instantly. I get one too.
It is exactly like the one that goes out to the other thousands of email
recipients. I look at them. I look to see some keys things in them. I have
looked at so many I can speed read them. Then I delete them.
When and AstroMart user that wants to sell or buy something emails another
user he/she must go through AstroMart's email service to make the initial
contact - eBay uses a more sophisticated version of this as do other sites.
We do this so when a "bad guy" contacts our honest AstroMart users we can go
and delete the "bad guys" account IF WE ARE CONTACTED BY THE HONEST
ASTROMART USER. If we are not contacted by the honest AstroMart users we
have no idea that the "bad guy" is in the system. I hope you are not under
the misconception that I can or would read tens of thousands of private
emails between AstroMart users. I honestly can't tell you if I could do that
even if I wanted to. I have no access to those emails. After the initial
contact has been made the users are outside of our servers.
Understand?
Again, I support your right to do exactly that,
> as you are the owner of Astromart and can -and do - run it as you see
> fit. I prefer to do business differently, without having my
> communications monitored.
If I didn't know you better I would swear you are trying to make people
think I'm a bad guy and I sit and read their private email for some kind of
fun or something. You aren't letting your desire to help your friend get in
the way of your ethics are you?
<snipped the part about Herb being a money grubbing capitalist - we all knew
that anyway>
>
> Your investment is totally voluntary. No one twisted your arm or
> forced you to invest a penny in Astromart, which was running just fine
> for years.
You are correct - no one twisted my arm and I'm over 21 and .....etc.
Robert did a great job getting AstroMart off the ground. No doubt about
that.
The day we took AstroMart over it was not operating at all. It was D.O.A. it
was draining Robert of his private income because it was being loved to
death and no one would help him by paying the operating cost of a site that
was exploding in popularity. You may mot want to believe that but I was
there and I know what I'm talking about. I hired Ron Wodaski to build a
skeleton MS version before the final agreement with Robert was completed and
he worked 3 days and nights straight with almost no sleep to get it ready by
that Monday morning. Robert and Paula and I agreed to a change in ownership
and Ron and Ray got the site pointed to our servers and AstroMart was
resurrected.
As a user, I very much prefer the Astronomy Mall model -
> what Astromart used to be.
I can't agree with you on the "other" model but I can agree with you about
the :What AstroMart used to be" part.
The Thursday or Friday before we took over AstroMart I contacted Mark via
phone and made him an offer. I told him that I wanted to return AstroMart to
what is was when I first saw it but I knew that if I didn't have cooperation
from Mark it could not be done. I was willing to pay Robert - pay to update
a clean version of AstroMart for MS servers and pay for it's continued
operating expenses. When I contacted Mark I told him I wanted to pay off the
balance of the advertisers of AstroMart (at the time about $4000 - $7000)
and take no more advertisers and would work a deal with Mark where he would
get ALL the advertising revenue (Astronomy Mall) and AstroMart would get all
of the classifieds. AstroMart would be returned to a no advertising no
dealer (including ATWB) web site. His site could be the "advertising" venue.
Why would I do this? Paula and I started our company on AstroMart and we
thought it would be cool thing to do for the community. I thought it was a
slam dunk deal but I was told "I will have to get back to you". In the mean
time a few "dealers" contacted Mark and convinced him he should take this
opportunity to be bigger and better and that Herb was trying to take over
the world or some such crap and convinced him to not accept my offer. When
my offer was rejected I decided (with the help of others) that we were going
to make AstroMart "the" portal of Astronomy. We are now trying to do just
that.
<snip - the Herb York tirade>
>
> Good old American values also include privacy.
I couldn't agree more.
Good old American
> values don't force you to create an "account".
No the people that commit fraud and don't pay people for their products and
don't ship what they said they would and lie and cheat are the ones that
make us spend thousands of dollars to try to keep them out and they make all
the good honest people get an account. It is also why we have police and
fences and get body searched at airports. I'm sure you are wise enough to
know that if none of this was necessary I wouldn't be putting money into it.
The existence of
> "accounts" is what puts people at risk, especially when such
> information is compromised.
We disagree here. In my opinion the criminals are to blame. They cause the
need for the accounts. No criminals - no accounts.
It's happened many times to web-based
> businesses.
We have spent tens of thousands of dollars to do our best to protect
people's private information but you are correct that there are weasels out
there that have nothing better to do than create worms and hack systems. I
saw the other day where Ford credit (I think) was hacked. AstroMart has only
addresses and phone #s and email accounts. We have no credit history or SS#s
etc that these fellows would find to interesting but yes the possibility
exists.
There's absolutely no reason for it.
Unfortunately there is.
Thank you
Herb
AstroMart
CHASLX200
>Message-id: <apPG8.2985$u7.2...@news.direcpc.com>
>
>
>Well they are right about Sky and Telescope and wrong about me.
>Ha ha!! Just kidding!!
>Arizona is fine. I NEVER thought I would say this but.....we could use
>"some" rain.
>Thank you
>Herb
*******************************
I never knew you lived in Arizona Herb.
Chas P.
William R. Mattil
Herb York <ztr...@fidalgo.net> wrote:
[huge snip to conserve bandwidth]
>Good old American
>> values don't force you to create an "account".
>
>No the people that commit fraud and don't pay people for their products and
>don't ship what they said they would and lie and cheat are the ones that
>make us spend thousands of dollars to try to keep them out and they make all
>the good honest people get an account. It is also why we have police and
>fences and get body searched at airports. I'm sure you are wise enough to
>know that if none of this was necessary I wouldn't be putting money into it.
Mr. York,
Could you please explain exactly how a buyer (read as a purchaser) of
something can commit fraud ? This seems to be a question that you have
never answered and I for one, am dying to know.
Example:
An unregistered user contacts Mr. Doe to arrange for the purchase of
a popular widget. They agree on a price. The unregistered user send
the appropriate funds to Mr. Doe. Mr. Doe sends the widget to the
unregistered user.
How can the unregistered user cause a problem in this scenario ?
Now if the seller "wants" to send the item without recieving payment
first then that is a completely different type of transaction.
Seriously Herb, Inquiring minds would like to know ..........
>We have spent tens of thousands of dollars to do our best to protect
>people's private information but you are correct that there are weasels out
>there that have nothing better to do than create worms and hack systems.
Stop using M$ products and this becomes a much smaller problem <vbg>
Regards
Bill
Shneor Sherman
Dear Mr. York,
Thank you for your (voluminous) response. I think we can agree to
disagree on the need for "accounts". The Astronomy Mall Free
Classifieds seem to do quite well without them. That's evidence enough
for me.
Clear skies,
Shneor Sherman
Herb York
"William R. Mattil" <w...@rrscfi1.irngtx.tel.gte.com> wrote in message
news:aciqt7$1g$1...@news.gte.com...
> In article <kkQG8.2991$u7.2...@news.direcpc.com>,
> Herb York <ztr...@fidalgo.net> wrote:
> Could you please explain exactly how a buyer (read as a purchaser) of
> something can commit fraud ? This seems to be a question that you have
> never answered and I for one, am dying to know.
One person doesn't have an AStroMart account because he would convince
people to send him product and then would tell them he couldn't pay for it -
for example.
>
> Example:
>
> An unregistered user contacts Mr. Doe to arrange for the purchase of
> a popular widget. They agree on a price. The unregistered user send
> the appropriate funds to Mr. Doe. Mr. Doe sends the widget to the
> unregistered user.
>
> How can the unregistered user cause a problem in this scenario ?
Where is the fraud in this example?
An AstroMart registered user can buy and sell. Fraud has been on both sides
of the deal from what I have seen.
>
> Now if the seller "wants" to send the item without recieving payment
> first then that is a completely different type of transaction.
Yep and it DOES happen.
>
> Seriously Herb, Inquiring minds would like to know ..........
Hope you got the answers you were looking for.
>
> Stop using M$ products and this becomes a much smaller problem <vbg>
I got a feeling it is not an MS exclusive issue.
Thank you
Herb
AstroMart
>
>
> Regards
>
> Bill
Herb York
> Dear Mr. York,
> Thank you for your (voluminous) response. I think we can agree to
> disagree on the need for "accounts".
<snip>
> Clear skies,
> Shneor Sherman
Dear Mr. Sherman,
You are welcome.
Herb York
AstroMart
Tom
I believe what Herb is referring to is a few friendly / trusting
amateurs have been tricked into sending the product BEFORE they
actually recieve payment.
I would NEVER do this, and would of course recommend that no one else
does either, but it occasionally does happen and regretably folks get
stung.
Tom T.
w...@rrscfi1.irngtx.tel.gte.com (William R. Mattil) wrote in message news:<aciqt7$1g$1...@news.gte.com>...
Ray Cash
>amateurs have been tricked into sending the product BEFORE they
>actually recieve payment.
Hi Tom,
I do this all the time, depending on how I feel about email and phone
conversations I've had with the buyer. I mean: the buyer is gambling that I'll
send the item and not just pocket the money, isn't he/she? So far I've been
lucky in this regard. I can't say the same when I've been the buyer--once or
twice I've been burned (or had to wait a MONTH) for something I sent an MO or
wired $$ to a guy that had something I wanted on AstroMart. (To be fair to
Herb: these shaky transactions were BEFORE the safeguards and rating system
that he has put into place).
Herb: that was an excellent rebuttal to Shneor. I do believe he owes you an
apology; I can only guess why none has followed (spoken from experience;-).
Also: A couple of days ago, I read that post by Ratboy where he says I am
"central" to Astrofart. I didn't have a clue to what he was talking about, so I
emailed him. (Rat and I ARE friends--I remember him before he had ANY
telescopes!). Seems Rat remembers me sticking up for Gary on free speech
grounds and didn't want to step on my toes. I told him not to worry. Besides: I
apologized to you quite publically for my off-the-wall comments. He didn't
catch _that_ post. S.a.a. is like that sometimes--one only remembers the bad
drama.
--Ray Cash
Astro-Images:
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/raycash/astroimgs.htm
How to Build a Dobsonian Telescope:
http://members.aol.com/sfsidewalk/cdobplans.htm
My Deep-Sky Page:
http://members.aol.com/anonglxy/deepsky.htm
Ratboy99
>Also: A couple of days ago, I read that post by Ratboy where he says I am
>"central" to Astrofart. I didn't have a clue to what he was talking about, so
I
>emailed him. (Rat and I ARE friends--I remember him before he had ANY
>telescopes!). Seems Rat remembers me sticking up for Gary on free speech
>grounds and didn't want to step on my toes. I told him not to worry. Besides:
>I apologized to you quite publically for my off-the-wall comments. He didn't
>catch _that_ post. S.a.a. is like that sometimes--one only remembers the bad
>drama.
Well, as far as I'm concerned, I've been nothing but wrong in this matter
regarding Astromart, and from now on I'm going to stay out of it. Dunno why it
should stop me though, I'm wrong most of the time. Guess it's because it
involves friends. I'm glad to see some folks actually working it out, though.
This thread in particular has been becoming increasing civil. Nice to see.
"Since before I had ANY telescopes", eh? Whaddyaknow!
rat
~( );>
email: remove 'et' from .com(et) in above email address
Herb York
"Ray Cash" <ray...@aol.comspamsux> wrote in message
news:20020523204908...@mb-fi.aol.com...
>
> Herb: that was an excellent rebuttal to Shneor. I do believe he owes you
an
> apology;
I don't see it that way. He has his opinion and I have mine and I'm sure we
both could have been more civil to each other.
A good day/week/month for me is no AstroMart posts to s.a.a I'm ready for a
PAUSE.
<snip>
> Also: A couple of days ago, I read that post by Ratboy where he says I am
> "central" to Astrofart. I didn't have a clue to what he was talking about,
so I
> emailed him. (Rat and I ARE friends--I remember him before he had ANY
> telescopes!).
I'm sure you know Rat is a good guy then.
Seems Rat remembers me sticking up for Gary on free speech
> grounds and didn't want to step on my toes.
Well I am just going to let my opinion of this go. I'm sure you know that
there ARE limits to what free speech includes.
I told him not to worry. Besides: I
> apologized to you quite publically for my off-the-wall comments. He didn't
> catch _that_ post. S.a.a. is like that sometimes--one only remembers the
bad
> drama.
I for one would like to put it behind us and move on. I can't afford another
2 hour long distance call to you.
<g>
Thank you
Herb
Tom
> I do this all the time, depending on how I feel about email and phone
> conversations I've had with the buyer. I mean: the buyer is gambling that I'll
> send the item and not just pocket the money, isn't he/she? So far I've been
> lucky in this regard. I can't say the same when I've been the buyer--once or
> twice I've been burned (or had to wait a MONTH) for something I sent an MO or
> wired $$ to a guy that had something I wanted on AstroMart. (To be fair to
> Herb: these shaky transactions were BEFORE the safeguards and rating system
> that he has put into place).
>
Hey Ray -
You know, I never really thought of it from that perspective. I guess
I am too used to the typical business model that I deal with at home
(you pay, THEN they ship). At work, we NEVER pay for a product till
after we have recieved it and determine that everything is working
correctly...
Very good point.
Tom T.
da...@pebble.org
> Could you please explain exactly how a buyer (read as a purchaser) of
> something can commit fraud ? This seems to be a question that you have
> never answered and I for one, am dying to know.
Well, you've obviously not very criminally minded! You can take that
as a compliment. However, I'll bet Herb has seen it all...
- Dan
Herb York
Thanks
Herb
<da...@pebble.org> wrote in message news:slrnagkreo...@pebble.org...
> In
Jeff Quinn
You wrote "I can only guess why none has followed (spoken from
experience;-)"
If you mean to imply something lacking in Mr. Shneor's ethics, I have
bought from him on astromonymall.com's free classifieds and had no
problems. So I must weigh in my own experience on this one, too. He
gave me a fire sale price, too :-)
By the way, did you ever receive that alt/az mount I sold you? I
never heard back from you after I sent it.
Jeff Quinn