AP Scope Scalping - a solution
Del Johnson
Astro Physics holds back one out of ten telescopes and sells them at a $2000
premium. These scopes are identical to the others; they just have a shorter
waiting list. The advantages are that the scalpers are put out of business,
those who wish to pay extra for quicker delivery may do so and AP makes more
money. The legitimate waiting list is not really impacted as the scalpers
are no longer in the queue.
Del Johnson
Enyo
will all think they were within 10% of getting a scope and will all be
pissed forever. It logically has little impact on the list but would have
a huge negative practical impact.
Del Johnson
Del Johnson
"Enyo" <En...@BigFoot.com> wrote in message
news:Ta058.5577$Ab1.3...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
jwayda
give them your home number, work number, cell number, and email addresses.
Inform Astro-Physics of any changes in personal information. With a little
effort on your part, it is really difficult to miss the notification.
"Enyo" <En...@BigFoot.com> wrote in message
news:Ta058.5577$Ab1.3...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Daniel
Hi Del,
Econ 101: Most scalpers would remain on the longer wait list &
resell at a $1900 markup. Only scalpers at the margin (those for whom
$2000 is enough to keep scalping, but $1900 is not) will quit. Ok, so
what if AP made the instant gratification price = list + $1800? A few
more scalpers will quit, but a few more user buyers would be willing
to pay the additional money. At some point, AP can't keep up with the
additional demand for instant delivery and that becomes the purview of
scalpers once again. ie, the market is self regulating.
Daniel
Gary Irwin
person who *should* be upset about the "scalping" is Roland. It would appear
from sales on Astromart that that he is leaving $1K on the table for every
sale, and he doesn't seem to mind. I recall Roland saying he was concerned
about keeping the prices down to a level where the "common man" can still
afford to buy one which may be philanthropic, but its a strange way to run a
business.
Gary
"Del Johnson" <dela...@san.rr.com> wrote in message
news:No%48.23163$H5.93...@typhoon.san.rr.com...
Michael Richmann
etc. and only notified me through the e-mail address. Outlook Express,
may Bill Gates rot in hell forever, was dumping random messages
including AP's, into the trash due to a faulty e-mail rule list.
If it wasn't for the fact that I also got a notification from Company 7
and got suspicious about the situation, I'd have been screwed and who
knows when the 1200GTO list would have come around again.
--
Mike
Stephen Astro
Since we're all giving the AP folks advice, why not put out a special
addition model made of premium materials like brass or even silver and
charge out the wazzoo for it.
Steve O.
Al
"Gary Irwin" <ga...@DELETECAPSrogers.com> wrote in message
news:h7358.51640$I8.98...@news4.rdc1.on.home.com...
> Interesting solution for a non-existant problem? Seems to me that the only
> person who *should* be upset about the "scalping" is Roland. It would
appear
> from sales on Astromart that that he is leaving $1K on the table for every
> sale, and he doesn't seem to mind. I recall Roland saying he was concerned
> about keeping the prices down to a level where the "common man" can still
> afford to buy one which may be philanthropic, but its a strange way to run
a
> business.
>
> Gary
>
>
leaving $1K on the table for every sale...they're not leaving a dime.
You're paying exactly what the telescope is worth.
Other APOs (such as a Tak and others) are just as good as the AP, and some
may be better. Buying one of these scopes may cost you a few more bucks,
but you can buy and own the scope immediately...you don't have to wait 3
years or more and you don't have to finance the firms production with your
hard cash and then wait another year.
Al
Zane
>Interesting solution for a non-existant problem? Seems to me that the only
>person who *should* be upset about the "scalping" is Roland. It would appear
>from sales on Astromart that that he is leaving $1K on the table for every
>sale, and he doesn't seem to mind. I recall Roland saying he was concerned
>about keeping the prices down to a level where the "common man" can still
>afford to buy one which may be philanthropic, but its a strange way to run a
>business.
(snip)
It would seem that any business that charges little enough for there to be
a waiting list will have scalping occur, up to the point where the price
gets high enough where supply exceeds demand.
At this point, the business can no longer buy the materials, components,
and perhaps pay for some fraction of the labor with the customer's money
instead of its own. If, like most businesses, it borrows this from a bank
(or loses investment return on its own capital), then the price would have
to go up another few percent, adding to the gap between supply and demand.
There will be some percentage of its product sitting around unsold,
evaporating capital and perhaps incurring additional inventory taxes. All
this might cost the business more money than the difference between its
original selling cost and the scalper's cost, especially if unforeseen
negative changes in the general economy occur.
I think AP is doing something very clever in keeping conditions for a
waiting list, even though I personally wouldn't pay any small company
significant bucks for work before it was performed or equipment before it
existed if I had an alternative. I've been stung by that before.
Zane
spam...@noplace.org
wrote:
>This is an interesting notion, but it's far from the truth. AP is not
>leaving $1K on the table for every sale...they're not leaving a dime.
>You're paying exactly what the telescope is worth.
Apparently not, unless you define "what the telescope is worth" as
"Manufacturer's List Price"
The best way to find out what something is worth, is to offer it to
the highest bidder, which is exactly what some folks are complaining
about.
Sixty billion gigabits can do much. It even does windows.
-- Fred Pohl, Beyond the Blue Event Horizon, 1980
Jeff Morgan
<dela...@san.rr.com> wrote:
Easier yet: AP raises prices on ALL scopes until they always have a few
in stock. Supply = Demand. No more list. No more scalpers. Everybody
pays the same for an OTA, perhaps twice the current price.
Faced with that, I'm sure most on the list would rather have the
scalpers and wait to get their scope below it's market value, plus have
the added bonus of being able to complain.
--
Jeff Morgan
email: substitute mindspring for nospam
Bill Nelson
That would only reduce the number of scalpers - unless AP held out enough
scopes to satisfy everyone who wanted a scope quickly. And that is not
going to happen.
In other words, the scalpers would just sell scopes at a $1000 (or $1500)
premium - in your above example.
--
Bill Nelson (bi...@peak.org)
Bill Nelson
> Easier yet: AP raises prices on ALL scopes until they always have a few
> in stock. Supply = Demand. No more list. No more scalpers. Everybody
> pays the same for an OTA, perhaps twice the current price.
I believe that Roland wants to keep the price as low as possible. In
other words, he is not trying to get as much money out of people as he
can.
And, you are correct. They are selling below market value - or there
wouldn't be such long waiting lists.
On the other hand, it may be a good business practice. With such a
backlog, it is unlikely that Roland is ever going to run out of orders.
--
Bill Nelson (bi...@peak.org)
Bill Thomas
"Zane" <zane...@sansnetcom.com> wrote in message news:3c54cbd8...@nntp.ix.netcom.com...
AP don't charge you anything to be on the waiting list so your thesis
is wrong.
Regards Bill
> Zane
David Low
> Astro Physics holds back one out of ten telescopes and sells them at a
$2000
> premium.
This may be a solution without a problem - I haven't seen too many "new"
condition AP instruments on the market. More often, the instruments have
been used, and the owners are simply taking advantage of a seller's market.
If blatant speculation were a major issue, a preferable approach might be
for AP to simply remove "speculators" from all current and future waiting
lists. This would be entirely in keeping with their ethical and business
principles, and I wouldn't be suprised to learn they were doing so right
now.
David Low
Del Johnson
Ebay and Astromart agrees with your assessment that AP refractors are not
readily seen as being scalped and sold. So, either this is done more
discreetly or someone has been complaining about a nonexistent problem.
Del Johnson
"David Low" <davi...@acm.org> wrote in message
news:mRb58.1184$ks5.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
>
> This may be a solution without a problem - I haven't seen too many "new"
> condition AP instruments on the market. More often, the instruments have
> been used, and the owners are simply taking advantage of a seller's
market.
>
> David Low
>
JMc
penethol, or bamboo splinters under the fingernails of every waiting
list member?
This whole discussion is about an irrational business practice on AP's
part: intentionally selling their products below market value. Why are
we trying to justify or explain irrational behavior using logic and reason?
Jim McSheehy
Zane
(snip)
>
>AP don't charge you anything to be on the waiting list so your thesis
>is wrong.
You don't pay anything months before the scope is delivered? I wasn't
talking about the "pre-notification" time.
Zane
David Low
> And just how should AP garner that information? Vulcan mind meld, sodium
> penethol, or bamboo splinters under the fingernails of every waiting
> list member?
Those methods may work OK for you, but a lot of folks these days use
databases instead.
For instance, if Joe Shmo, or somebody at Joe's address, were on the AP
155EDFS waiting list a total of 5 times, one might infer that some
feculation is going on.
Maybe then, the bamboo splinters might come in handy <g>,
David Low
Chuck Olson
vocabulary. My spell-checker doesn't even know about that one. 8^)
Chuck
"David Low" <davi...@acm.org> wrote in message
news:%Rg58.1531$By6.2...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Enyo
trip in England. I rerouted my personal e-mail address to my work address.
I had talked to AP off and on and they did indicate that they were getting
close to a notification on the 130's but they would not tell me if I was up
or not. When I got the e-mail I made the phone call to order from my hotel
room over there.
"jwayda" <jwa...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:N3358.4748$Qg2.2...@news1.east.cox.net...
Sjoplinh
>>This whole discussion is about an irrational business practice on AP's
part: intentionally selling their products below market value. Why are
we trying to justify or explain irrational behavior using logic and reason?<<
Those statements make me wonder about the definition of "market value" (I'm not
an economist). A couple points:
-- AP has explained that they want to remain a small company;
-- Maybe there's "short term" and "long term" market value... I'm sure there
are a few millionaire astronomers who might buy $20,000 scopes. But how many
will be sold?
sj
Mark D'Ambrosio
Roland, It's time to get out the Spock Ears, and Wig .
Practice your grip, and these words,... "Your thoughts to my thoughts".
:-) Mark