best places to live for amateur astronomers
callisto
know where I could retire in the US to maximize my enjoyment of this
hobby. I know there are many considerations such as seasonal sky
conditions, having an astronomy club nearby where it would be possible
to participate in many activities (e.g., see telescopes of others,
hear talks, go on trips including star parties, etc). Another of my
interests is participating in outreach and giving PowerPoint talks to
people of all ages.
I would be willing to travel short distances. But I can’t live in
places such as existing and planned astronomy villages because I have
a wife who won’t drive thirty miles to do her grocery shopping.
Fifteen miles? I don’t know.
It would be nice if someone wrote a book with an emphasis on amateur
astronomy such as the “Places Rated Almanac”.
Thanks in advance for any comments or other things I should consider.
Paul
Howard Lester
I am an amateur astronomer and have recently retired. I would like to
know where I could retire in the US to maximize my enjoyment of this
hobby. I know there are many considerations such as seasonal sky
conditions, having an astronomy club nearby where it would be possible
to participate in many activities (e.g., see telescopes of others,
hear talks, go on trips including star parties, etc). Another of my
interests is participating in outreach and giving PowerPoint talks to
people of all ages.
===========================
Paul,
Tucson, AZ (if you can stand the summer heat and general desolation of the
landscape.. [I know, beauty is in the eye of the beholder]) might be an
excellent compromise for you. There is a very good club (Tucson Amateur
Astronomy Association) that meets on the University campus, and has two dark
sky sites at which they meet for star parties. Although Tucson continues to
grow and expand rapidly, you can live 15 or 20 miles away (particularly
southeast) from the city center and have decent skies from your own
backyard.
George
"Howard Lester" <hle...@mmto.org> wrote in message
news:g5qr0m$7k$1...@onion.ccit.arizona.edu...
Flagstaff would be my choice. The climate is more moderate, the city is
smaller, and is located at a higher elevation. They also have protected
skies, being designated the first international dark sky city. And best of
all for Howard's wife. They have good shopping centers. And it's just a
hop, skip and jump away from the Grand Canyon, and lot's of beautiful
scenery. Good luck, Howard.
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap080416.html
George
Howard Lester
"George" wrote
> Flagstaff would be my choice. The climate is more moderate, the city is
> smaller, and is located at a higher elevation. They also have protected
> skies, being designated the first international dark sky city. And best
> of all for Howard's wife. They have good shopping centers. And it's just
> a hop, skip and jump away from the Grand Canyon, and lot's of beautiful
> scenery. Good luck, Howard.
>
> http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap080416.html
>
> George
I'M going to Vermont -- I don't know where Paul's going. ;-) I was
suggesting he come here to Tucson, but yes, Flagstaff's a great choice.
Howard
catzz66
If you are at all handy with Google Earth, there's an "Artificial Night
Sky Brightness for North America" layer that is interesting. It doesn't
take average cloud cover into account, of course, but it still might be
helpful to you.
Terry A. Haimann
N. California has reasonably dark skies.
Also, Kansas, Oklahoma and Texas would be reasonable choices.
Iowa (My home state is above average(Muggy in the summer though), )
Missouri and Arkansas would be good.
Brian Tung
> I am an amateur astronomer and have recently retired. I would like to
> know where I could retire in the US to maximize my enjoyment of this
> hobby.
Personally, I'd go for New Mexico.
--
Brian Tung <br...@aero.org>
NOTE: Below addresses changing soon...
The Astronomy Corner at http://astro.isi.edu/
Unofficial C5+ Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/c5plus/
The PleiadAtlas Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/pleiadatlas/
My Own Personal FAQ (SAA) at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.html
My posts do not represent the views of either Aerospace of USC/ISI.
Bill McClain
> Iowa (My home state is above average(Muggy in the summer though), )
> Missouri and Arkansas would be good.
I'm in Iowa. The midwest is humid year round, making for murky skies even
when clear. A typical clear night is mag 5.
-Bill
--
Sattre Press In the Quarter
http://sattre-press.com/ by Robert W. Chambers
in...@sattre-press.com http://sattre-press.com/itq.html
Tom Hise
<20071214.2...@spamgourmet.com> wrote:
>I'm in Iowa. The midwest is humid year round, making for murky skies even
>when clear. A typical clear night is mag 5.
I'll second that.
--
Tom Hise - NCØO
N42° 07' - W91° 53'
Howard Lester
> Paul (callisto) wrote:
>> I am an amateur astronomer and have recently retired. I would like to
>> know where I could retire in the US to maximize my enjoyment of this
>> hobby.
>
> Personally, I'd go for New Mexico.
Porque?
No, not Porque, NM..... Why, and where in New Mexico? One reason I'd vote
for Arizona (only in terms of astronomy) is its much better seeing than is
typical elsewhere. That's in addition to spectacular transparency outside of
the cities and towns. But I know this because I live in Arizona. I don't
know what New Mexico offers, other than transparency and, I imagine,
different politics and population. There have to be more factors than just
astronomical to take into consideration when selecting a new place to live.
Howard
Spanky
"Howard Lester" wrote
Ping me when you get there.
Steve Paul
Somewhere south and east of VT, but not too terribly far.
Eric
I would expect AZ to be quite good. One thing I can tell you with confidence
is that anywhere near Olympia WA sucks. I'm lucky if i can see a mag 2 star
on a clear night at 2:30am with the naked eye. Light pollution and generally
poor skies ruin the night, I'm almost on Puget Sound near Tolmie park and I
can read a book by ambient light at 10pm
Eric
Brian Tung
> Porque?
Nit: It's ¿Por qué? Porque is because.
> No, not Porque, NM..... Why, and where in New Mexico?
Umm, I don't remember where--not too far from Albuquerque--but it seemed
darker, with about equivalent seeing. It could be that I experienced
seeing that was subpar for Benson, when I went.
> One reason I'd vote
> for Arizona (only in terms of astronomy) is its much better seeing than is
> typical elsewhere. That's in addition to spectacular transparency outside of
> the cities and towns. But I know this because I live in Arizona. I don't
> know what New Mexico offers, other than transparency and, I imagine,
> different politics and population. There have to be more factors than just
> astronomical to take into consideration when selecting a new place to live.
Oh, I thought we were picking just for astronomical reasons. If we're
including other factors, I might not move too far away from where I am
now.
Howard Lester
"Brian Tung" wrote
> Howard Lester wrote:
>> Porque?
>
> Nit: It's ¿Por qué? Porque is because.
I meant it as "why." OK, I tried....
>> No, not Porque, NM..... Why, and where in New Mexico?
> Umm, I don't remember where--not too far from Albuquerque--but it seemed
> darker, with about equivalent seeing. It could be that I experienced
> seeing that was subpar for Benson, when I went.
Benson, AZ? The Vega-Bray B&B? Pretty good spot, though there is still
somewhat of a light dome from Tucson.
>> There have to be more factors than just
>> astronomical to take into consideration when selecting a new place to
>> live.
> Oh, I thought we were picking just for astronomical reasons. If we're
> including other factors, I might not move too far away from where I am
> now.
In that regard I was referring to the OP's wife having her non-astronomical
requirements.
Howard Lester
Will do!
Spanky
"Brian Tung" wrote
> Howard Lester wrote:
>> Porque?
>
I thought it was for dinner.
-Steve
Howard Lester
>
> "Brian Tung" wrote
>> Porque is because.
> I thought it was for dinner.
>
> -Steve
You mean "the other white meat?"
katrinaxx
Oops, I forgot! You might also like take a look at Cloudcroft, NM.
http://www.cloudcroft.com/
Cathy
"callisto" <pjg...@wildblue.net> wrote in message
news:b6913787-e770-4090...@a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
catzz66
Southern NM: low population density and clear skies most of the time.
It's not hip or trendy, but that is a plus for many people.
Chris L Peterson
<heyl...@dakotacom.net> wrote:
>No, not Porque, NM..... Why, and where in New Mexico? One reason I'd vote
>for Arizona (only in terms of astronomy) is its much better seeing than is
>typical elsewhere. That's in addition to spectacular transparency outside of
>the cities and towns.
If you're uncomfortable with hot weather, there are more options in New
Mexico, and the transparency is at least as good there as in Arizona.
Or, you can go further north into Colorado. There are many smallish
mountain towns that are well supported with shops and services, and the
transparency is better even than Arizona, although the seeing isn't
usually as good. Of course, how important seeing actually is depends on
the sort of astronomy you're interested in. Likewise for dark (say, 6
mag) versus extremely dark (say, 7 mag).
All three states enjoy enough clear nights every year to satisfy almost
astronomer. (Utah is astronomically good as well, but I wouldn't
recommend that screwy place to anybody!)
_________________________________________________
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
Spanky
"Howard Lester" wrote
> "Spanky" wrote
>> "Brian Tung" wrote
>
>>> Porque is because.
>
>> I thought it was for dinner.
>
'course, that would probably be more obvious in Lousianna, where I hear tell
the seeing is excellent, but the humidity and the skeeters could kill'ya.
-Steve
Greg Crinklaw
>
> Oops, I forgot! You might also like take a look at Cloudcroft, NM.
> http://www.cloudcroft.com/
A better site with more info for amateur astronomers:
http://www.nmskies.com/webpage/
--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico, USA (33N, 106W, 2700m)
SkyTools: http://www.skyhound.com/cs.html
Observing: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/skyhound.html
Comets: http://comets.skyhound.com
To reply take out your eye
AstroS...@gmail.com
The suggestions so far have all been quite good. I would basically
draw a N-S line through the middle of the Dakotas and another
approximately in line with the western border of Idaho. Extend both
lines through the northern and southern boundary of the continental
U.S. and look for something between these lines that's not too near
nor too far from any reasonably sized city. Despite this general
advice, good sites can be found outside this region. Yet, within this
region one could find a *huge* number of suitable locations that would
meet the needs of both you and your wife. You'll probably want the
nearest city to be large enough to have a Wal-Mart, but not much
larger than that and you'll probably want to be at least 20 miles
away, though your wife will want to be a bit closer. A suitable
compromise (such as 10 to 15 miles) will need to be reached;-)
Other possible considerations: Distance to health care facilities
such as clinics, hospitals, dentistry, eyecare, etc. (I have to travel
50 miles to the nearest dentist, over 100 miles for a major hospital,
over 100 miles for eyecare, etc. At one point in time I had to travel
at least 20 miles to the nearest gas station and 50 miles to the
nearest (small) clinic, now these basic services have cropped up a bit
closer to home;-)
Then there's climate. If you want to be able to observe year round
without having to worry about having a fair number of sub-freezing
nights you won't want to be too far north nor too high in elevation.
If you choose a rural area beware that not all roads get cleared of
snow, etc. Last winter there were times when my wife's fuel-efficient
Honda Civic couldn't make it to or from the nearest paved road. A
least three last times last year I had to tow her (stuck) car with my
gas guzzeling Jeep. For one full week she parked her car 6 miles away
and I shuttled here back and forth in the Jeep. In other words, some
locations can have a strong influence on one's choice of vehicle.
Then there's wild animals. I just made a blog entry that tells a
little about one of the hazards in my area - rattlesnakes! We
encountered a bear one evening coming home from a major shopping trip
to a "nearby" major (for Montana) city.
So, do your research carefully and thoroughly! The darker the sky the
more remote you'll be, but it looks like your wife will serve you well
in keeping you from moving to a location that's too remote. Listen to
her. Astronomy isn't everything.
Bill Greer
To sketch is to see.
http://cejour.blogspot.com
http://www.rangeweb.net/~sketcher
barney
Astronomy isn't everything? Total bollocks.
Tom Polakis
> Or, you can go further north into Colorado. There are many smallish
> mountain towns that are well supported with shops and services, and the
> transparency is better even than Arizona, although the seeing isn't
> usually as good...
Chris,
Is your point about the transparency of Colorado vs. Arizona based on
the degree of aerosol contamination or cloudiness?
> All three states enjoy enough clear nights every year to satisfy almost
> astronomer. (Utah is astronomically good as well, but I wouldn't
> recommend that screwy place to anybody!)
Yeah, it's unfortunate, as I would otherwise rank it as the most
desirable of the four states in the Southwest.
Tom
johnp...@yahoo.com
> I am an amateur astronomer and have recently retired. I would like to
> know where I could retire in the US to maximize my enjoyment of this
> hobby. I know there are many considerations such as seasonal sky
> conditions, having an astronomy club nearby where it would be possible
> to participate in many activities (e.g., see telescopes of others,
> hear talks, go on trips including star parties, etc). Another of my
> interests is participating in outreach and giving PowerPoint talks to
> people of all ages.
George
"Howard Lester" <heyl...@dakotacom.net> wrote in message
news:v4udnbq8weJktRzV...@posted.dakotacomip...
Also there is the higher elevation and less dust to consider with Arizona
over New Mexico. Utah is also very good, if you can put up with the
natives. I drove into Utah from Colorado once via highway 50 (the loneliest
road in America. Upon crossing the border into Utah, I noticed a sign that
said "Utah. It's still just right", and someone had written in big red
letters "wing". :-)
George
George Normandin
"George" <> wrote
About 5 years ago I heard a talk at NEAF by Todd Gross (former 'scope
reviewer' and Boston TV weather person) on this vary subject. One place that
he mentioned as having great potential because of seeing and dark sky was
the area in northwest Florida around the Chiefland Astronomy Village
location. That area of Florida still has very dark sky, and Florida's famous
excellent seeing conditions. The dark area extends from Chiefland all of the
way over to the Gulf shore. Two Florida friends, one living in the Keys
right next to the WSP site and the other living in Orlando, both told me
that sky conditions are better in the Chiefland area then in the Keys, but
of course you lose a little of the far southern sky and you have to survive
the occasional hurricane. I would also consider the US Virgin Islands where
one island is mostly US national park, and I understand that one of the
Hawaiian islands is still pretty dark. The sat views of Cuba show it's
pretty dark, so maybe when Castro goes, it might be a nice location for at
least a vacation home & observatory.
George N
Davoud
> About 5 years ago I heard a talk at NEAF by Todd Gross (former 'scope
> reviewer' and Boston TV weather person) on this vary subject. One place that
> he mentioned as having great potential because of seeing and dark sky was
> the area in northwest Florida around the Chiefland Astronomy Village
> location. That area of Florida still has very dark sky, and Florida's famous
> excellent seeing conditions. The dark area extends from Chiefland all of the
> way over to the Gulf shore. Two Florida friends, one living in the Keys
> right next to the WSP site and the other living in Orlando, both told me
> that sky conditions are better in the Chiefland area then in the Keys, but
> of course you lose a little of the far southern sky and you have to survive
> the occasional hurricane. I would also consider the US Virgin Islands where
> one island is mostly US national park,
That would be the island of St. John. "Astronomical" aptly describes
the cost of real estate there. Seniors have to consider the sparse
availability of medical services in the Caribbean. My wife and I
vacation at Caneel Bay on St. John, and the skies are, indeed, superb.
On the other hand, I met a couple from St. Croix, USVI, at NEAF a few
years ago and I told them that I had been there and that I envied their
skies. "Not perfect," they said.
"Huh?"
"Dust."
"Huh?"
"Dust from the Sahara Desert."
"Ah. Having lived in the Sahara, and experiencing sandstorms that turn
day into night and cause the temperature to drop 40 degrees (from 140
to 100) in seconds, I understand."
The St. John Board of Realtors says "Expect to pay around $350,000 for
a "handyman special" home; super luxurious homes can top the
$10,500,000 mark. The average home goes for $1,250,000. Condominiums
range from around $300,000 for a studio to $1,500,000 for a two-bedroom
unit. The average condo goes for $675,000."
> and I understand that one of the
> Hawaiian islands is still pretty dark.
See St. John remarks above.
> The sat views of Cuba show it's
> pretty dark, so maybe when Castro goes, it might be a nice location for at
> least a vacation home & observatory.
Is it necessary to wait until Castro goes? Americans seem to be liked
and welcomed in Cuba.
I'm not trying to discourage anyone from moving to a dark-sky site,
merely pointing out that one needs to be circumspect; it's not a
perfect world. Too hot. Too cold. Too remote. Too expensive (for
most)...
Davoud
--
Don't re-elect the past. Vote for the future: Obama in 2008!
usenet *at* davidillig dawt com
George Normandin
"Davoud" <> wrote
...
.......
> I'm not trying to discourage anyone from moving to a dark-sky site,
> merely pointing out that one needs to be circumspect; it's not a
> perfect world. Too hot. Too cold. Too remote. Too expensive (for
Yep, all of those reasons are why a few places are still dark: no one wants
to live there. People mention the southwest desert, but you really need to
experience the heat before deciding to move there. I personally don't want
to get stung for the 4th time by a scorpion; 3 times in one lifetime are
enough. Politics can also be a cause for dark sky, like in Cuba (or North
Korea, with real dark skies, and it also has the dust you mention at times,
yellowish brown clouds of dust carried off the Gobi. They have the same in
South Korea, plus the place is lit up like New Jersey). Even in my own
little "dark sky paradise", a rented house in NY's Adirondack Park (gray or
black on the Clear Sky Chart), life can be difficult at times, and thus my
wife is unwilling to live there full time. There's the bone chilling winter
temps and deep snow (how else would you have boreal forest?) and it is 90
minutes on a good day to the nearest emergency room (and even worse for my
wife, over 90 minutes to the nearest Wal-Mart). It all makes Chiefland FL
sound attractive, at least until the next cat 5 hurricane hits. If you want
to live in dark sky country, you have to make sacrifices.
George N
Howard Lester
> Yep, all of those reasons are why a few places are still dark: no one
> wants to live there. People mention the southwest desert, but you really
> need to experience the heat before deciding to move there.
Very true, but I have been reminded that there are high altitude places in
the Southwest that are far, far more comfortable than the summer hell that
is the desolate low desert. (I haven't formed an opinion on this, no....)
And, for you fans of Wal-Mart, there is one typically not far away from
these places. What I'm thinking of is being near cities and larger towns. In
NM there is Santa Fe, Albuquerque, Ruidoso, Alamagordo... in Arizona there
is Flagstaff and vicinity, and the White Mountains to the ESE of there.
Don't care for the 7000' winter cold of Flagstaff? Drive south 10 miles down
I-17.
katrinaxx
"George Normandin" <Geor...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:aC_jk.140664$102....@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
>People mention the southwest desert, but you really need to experience the
>heat before deciding to move there.
It really isnt that bad. Stay out of the Sun, drink plenty of water, take
things slow.
>I personally don't want to get stung for the 4th time by a scorpion; 3
>times in one lifetime are enough.
A mere pin prick compaired to the New Jersey airforce!
However, I thought this was a rattlesnake curled up in a gopher hole.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/voodooink/2717263197/
A 'snake is a snake' out here in never never land where the ER is 60 miles
away......
R.I.P. Mr. Snake.
> life can be difficult at times, and thus my wife is unwilling to live
> there full time.
Must be equally difficult for YOU living in the other "there" full time....
(only kidding!)
>and it is 90 minutes on a good day to the nearest emergency room (and even
>worse for my wife, over 90 minutes to the nearest Wal-Mart).
:) Sounds real nice.
I have a 120+ mile round trip to K-Mart. 80 mile round trip to the grocery
store. 12 mile round trip to a mom and pop bread, milk, eggs/hardware/gas
station.
4 years ago (today! sh*t!) I moved from humid ,crowded, overpriced coastal,
pea soup green sky of NJ to rural, desert, cacti bloomin, absolutely
breathtaking Milky Way at the back door enriched black sky of AZ with a view
of Kitt Peak.
> If you want
> to live in dark sky country, you have to make sacrifices.
>
I had to get a drivers license (I never had one) and a 4WD vehicle. NOTHING
is within walking distance or cycling distance except by backyard.
Cathy
Diamond Bell, AZ 85736
Davoud
>
> > Yep, all of those reasons are why a few places are still dark: no one
> > wants to live there. People mention the southwest desert, but you really
> > need to experience the heat before deciding to move there.
Howard Lester replied:
> Very true, but I have been reminded that there are high altitude places in
> the Southwest that are far, far more comfortable than the summer hell that
> is the desolate low desert. (I haven't formed an opinion on this, no....)
> And, for you fans of Wal-Mart, there is one typically not far away from
> these places. What I'm thinking of is being near cities and larger towns. In
> NM there is Santa Fe, Albuquerque, Ruidoso, Alamagordo... in Arizona there
> is Flagstaff and vicinity, and the White Mountains to the ESE of there.
> Don't care for the 7000' winter cold of Flagstaff? Drive south 10 miles down
> I-17.
All true, but many people who were not raised at high elevations have
trouble acclimating. My wife and I lived at 7500 feet for two years
(Sana'a, Yemen) after years as virtual flatlanders. We did OK. Now I'm
23 years older and I doubt I would do as well at such an elevation.
It seems to me that a good compromise would be to live perhaps 40 miles
southeast (my choice; some might prefer southwest) of a city large
enough to have the requisite medical care and the desirable amenities.
All the necessities, but decent skies.
Me? I live between Baltimore and Washington :-( I've been retired for
more than 14 years (I was not quite 50 years old) and I have no plans
to move, though I plan to investigate some places in Ontario and
Quebec. More likely if the skies got too bad here I would give up my
idiotic deep-sky astrophotography quest
<http://www.primordial-light.com/> and learn to photograph the planets.
As for WalMart, there is no longer a place on Earth far enough from
WalMart for me.
Mr. Normandin used the phrase "lit up like New Jersey." I'm on board
with that, but my wife has family in Sussex Co. in extreme NW New
Jersey. I think it's about as far from NYC as one can be in Jersey.
Step out of a well lit interior on a clear night and wait a minute or
two and the Milky Way pops right out. Dark adapt and it's
horizon-to-horizon. M31 is too easy to be a test.
But again, it's 10 mi. to the supermarket, there are no major medical
facilities in easy reach, it's 15 mi. to the mall, and the choice of
nearby shopping and restaurants is quite limited. This is hardly
disastrous, just a bit inconvenient. Oh, did I mention the bears? They
represent a credible threat.
Davoud
--
Chris L Peterson
>All true, but many people who were not raised at high elevations have
>trouble acclimating. My wife and I lived at 7500 feet for two years
>(Sana'a, Yemen) after years as virtual flatlanders. We did OK. Now I'm
>23 years older and I doubt I would do as well at such an elevation.
It actually has little to do with where you are raised, and everything
to do with (1) your genes (where your ancestors were raised, perhaps),
and (2) your health. For most people, acclimatization to high altitudes
(under about 11,000 feet) takes a couple of weeks. If you don't have
lung problems (usually, this means that you don't smoke, and were never
a heavy smoker) you should do fine at moderate altitudes, say under
10,000 feet, regardless of age. In this area, most people live at around
9,000 feet, and many are in their 70s and 80s, with no problem getting
around, cutting wood, etc. The only people I know who have had to leave
did so because they developed heart or lung problems (the problems were
not related to living at high elevations, but certainly created issues
once they developed).
From a genetic standpoint, the good news is that while the right genes
will predispose you to doing well at high elevations, there aren't
really any that make you do badly. So your high altitude performance is
likely to either be normal or good.
The county I live in- one of the highest in the country- was recently
identified as being in the national top ten for life expectancy. I don't
know if that's because of the elevation, or in spite of it, but either
way most people are doing fine.
Edward Erbeck
>
>> "George Normandin" wrote
>>
>> People mention the southwest desert, but you really need to experience the
>> heat before deciding to move there.
>
> It really isnt that bad. Stay out of the Sun, drink plenty of water, take
> things slow.
>
I was born in Central Cal on a 108F day (I know this because my Mother
would bring it up when she couldn't have her way! - well until she realized
it wouldn't help her cause) and lived in SoCal from age 3 - 15 at a location
that reached 115 regularly in the Summer. Idiot Kid Stunt - "OK Who can walk
across the Street Bare Footed the Slowest". This was on day's (Yep repeat
offenders) when the Tar was bubbling because of the heat.
>> I personally don't want to get stung for the 4th time by a scorpion; 3
>> times in one lifetime are enough.
>
> A mere pin prick compaired to the New Jersey airforce!
Katt, you get popped by a Bark Scorpion you just might reconsider those
East Coast Buzzers!
> However, I thought this was a rattlesnake curled up in a gopher hole.
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/voodooink/2717263197/
> A 'snake is a snake' out here in never never land where the ER is 60 miles
> away......
> R.I.P. Mr. Snake.
>
Although I understand the reaction, except for the RARELY seen Coral
Snake all of the Snakes you need to worry about have Large "Diamond" shaped
heads and black and white bands at their tails.
>> and it is 90 minutes on a good day to the nearest emergency room (and even
>> worse for my wife, over 90 minutes to the nearest Wal-Mart).
>
> :) Sounds real nice.
> I have a 120+ mile round trip to K-Mart. 80 mile round trip to the grocery
> store. 12 mile round trip to a mom and pop bread, milk, eggs/hardware/gas
> station.
>
Diamond Bell and Pearce are interchangeable when it comes too Grocery
Shopping!
> 4 years ago (today! sh*t!) I moved from humid ,crowded, overpriced coastal,
> pea soup green sky of NJ to rural, desert, cacti bloomin, absolutely
> breathtaking Milky Way at the back door enriched black sky of AZ with a view
> of Kitt Peak.
>
Medical care should be of interest, but when I lived in California given
the time of day it could take an hour for Medical Aid to show up and another
to get you to medical care. Out here you can have ParaMedics show up and
you'll be in Tucson via Life Flight Helicopter and deliver you to Tucson in
about the same time.
>> If you want to live in dark sky country, you have to make sacrifices.
>>
I prefer to consider them compromises as I really do not feel I've lost
anything except convince. In Calif. I used to shop daily and pick up the
ingredients as needed. Out here it's "Get 5 of'em incase they stop
carrying'em".
>
> I had to get a drivers license (I never had one) and a 4WD vehicle. NOTHING
> is within walking distance or cycling distance except by backyard.
Dear God, Your eleventeen years old and never had a Drivers
License......... Lord I'm glad that the Santa Rita, Whetstone and Dragoon
Mountains stand between us!!!!!! ;-)
Crazy Ed
katrinaxx
"Edward Erbeck" <E...@CrazyEdOptical.com> wrote in message
news:C4B86341.C3E1B%E...@CrazyEdOptical.com...
>>
>
> Diamond Bell and Pearce are interchangeable when it comes too Grocery
> Shopping!
>
Seems so! We did get a Family Dollar Store down on Hwy 86 not too long
ago....only 28 miles round trip! Whoooooo hooooo!
>Out here you can have ParaMedics show up and
> you'll be in Tucson via Life Flight Helicopter and deliver you to Tucson
> in
> about the same time.
Same here.
>>> If you want to live in dark sky country, you have to make sacrifices.
>>>
>
> I prefer to consider them compromises as I really do not feel I've lost
> anything except convince. In Calif. I used to shop daily and pick up the
> ingredients as needed. Out here it's "Get 5 of'em incase they stop
> carrying'em".
I go into Tucson twice a month. Call ahead to make sure they have it. Make
a list... that I always forget on the kitchen counter. :)
> Dear God, Your eleventeen years old and never had a Drivers
> License......... Lord I'm glad that the Santa Rita, Whetstone and Dragoon
> Mountains stand between us!!!!!! ;-)
You forgot the Sierrita Mountains and Tucson Mountains!
Cathy
Davoud
> 4 years ago (today! sh*t!) I moved from humid ,crowded, overpriced coastal,
> pea soup green sky of NJ to rural, desert, cacti bloomin, absolutely
> breathtaking Milky Way at the back door enriched black sky of AZ with a view
> of Kitt Peak.
OK, I'm with you. But did you see what I wrote earlier in this thread
about NJ?
"Mr. Normandin used the phrase 'lit up like New Jersey.' I'm on board
with that, but my wife has family in Sussex Co. in extreme NW New
Jersey. I think it's about as far from NYC as one can be in Jersey.
Step out of a well lit interior on a clear night and wait a minute or
two and the Milky Way pops right out. Dark adapt and it's
horizon-to-horizon. M31 is too easy to be a test."
I've been up that way twice in the past two weeks (returned from my
latest visit this afternoon) and I never cease to be amazed!
I'm not saying it's Arizona, but I guarantee you that with the way you
describe where you lived in NJ you would not believe that you were only
a short distance away from amazingly good skies.
Everything is a compromise; if we weren't willing to compromise, the
Atacama desert would be densely populated by amateur astronomers from
around the world. I think that Arizona is a wonderful place to visit (I
happen to like Prescott very much) but I am too enamored of thick
forestation, grass, rivers with water in them 24/7/365, and the like to
ever move back to the southwest.
Davoud
--
katrinaxx
"Davoud" <st...@sky.net> wrote in message
news:010820082316172836%st...@sky.net...
>
> "Mr. Normandin used the phrase 'lit up like New Jersey.' I'm on board
> with that, but my wife has family in Sussex Co. in extreme NW New
> Jersey. I think it's about as far from NYC as one can be in Jersey.
> Step out of a well lit interior on a clear night and wait a minute or
> two and the Milky Way pops right out. Dark adapt and it's
> horizon-to-horizon. M31 is too easy to be a test.
> I've been up that way twice in the past two weeks (returned from my
My Uncle lived in Sussex Co. 66 miles from Manhattan. When we were kids
(1960's) we would visit during the summer. You wouldnt believe how nice
that area was prior to the Hwy going in.
> I'm not saying it's Arizona, but I guarantee you that with the way you
> describe where you lived in NJ you would not believe that you were only
> a short distance away from amazingly good skies.
I lived 113 miles away from Manhattan.
> Everything is a compromise; if we weren't willing to compromise, the
> Atacama desert would be densely populated by amateur astronomers from
> around the world. I think that Arizona is a wonderful place to visit (I
> happen to like Prescott very much) but I am too enamored of thick
> forestation, grass, rivers with water in them 24/7/365, and the like to
> ever move back to the southwest.
I could move back to NJ and go fishing in my front yard
http://www.flickr.com/photos/voodooink/2075145144/in/set-72157602536019053/
in the middle of winter. Only problem...theres no trees! So desolate.
Nothing grows. lol!
Edward Erbeck
>> Diamond Bell and Pearce are interchangeable when it comes too Grocery
>> Shopping!
>>
>
> Seems so! We did get a Family Dollar Store down on Hwy 86 not too long
> ago....only 28 miles round trip! Whoooooo hooooo!
>
Aww, you rural folks. Our Family Dollar is only a 12 mile round trip. A
couple of years ago they stuck one in Sunsites. Pickup the Mail, hit Family
Dollar and the Hardware Store and Home again, Home again ;-)
> I go into Tucson twice a month. Call ahead to make sure they have it. Make
> a list... that I always forget on the kitchen counter. :)
>
S.W.M.B.O. Goes to Tucson 2 or 3 times a year. I answer the Phone to
tell her what's on the List ;-)
>> Dear God, Your eleventeen years old and never had a Drivers
>> License......... Lord I'm glad that the Santa Rita, Whetstone and Dragoon
>> Mountains stand between us!!!!!! ;-)
>
> You forgot the Sierrita Mountains and Tucson Mountains!
>
More's better!
Crazy Ed
AstroS...@gmail.com
> Aww, you rural folks. Our Family Dollar is only a 12 mile round trip. A
> couple of years ago they stuck one in Sunsites. Pickup the Mail, hit Family
> Dollar and the Hardware Store and Home again, Home again ;-)
My wife and I went to our nearest Wal-Mart (among other stores)
today. I found a suitable, inexpensive camera tripod for my new
camera at a nearby business. The round trip was 230 miles. We could
have shaved about 50 miles off that distance by taking the 'scenic
route', but the scenic route would have involved more miles of
primitive dirt/rock road than pavement. That would have been fine for
my Jeep, but we took my wife's more fuel efficient Honda Civic. We
had lunch in the city and returned home with some fresh fruit, meat
and other goodies.
We have to go to the nearest small town (in a different county) to
pick up our mail. The post office doesn't deliver to our home. Home
mail delivery is not an option for us. Back when I ordered my AP
refractor, AP called with concerns over the UPS delivery address I had
provided. At the time we had no house number nor street address. I
ended up providing a photograph of our home to AP to include on the
scope's address label! Our area UPS driver was suitably impressed and
commented on the photo upon delivery of the package . . .
Then there was the time that my wife filed a complaint with some state
official when some business refused to honor a mail-in rebate on the
grounds that we hadn't provided a street address. To make a somewhat
longer story short, we ended up getting the rebate. Some city folk
just don't understand what it means to live in a rural area ;-)
Still, all things considered I wouldn't want to live in a city. When
we go to a city to shop, etc. we always try to leave before dark.
When I see all the lights in a city at night I get a somewhat
depressed, sick feeling. A city is a nice place to visit (in the
daytime) with places to shop, places to eat, book stores, etc. but I
wouldn't want to live there.
Bill Greer
To sketch is to see.
Edward Erbeck
> On Aug 2, 1:08 pm, Edward Erbeck <E...@CrazyEdOptical.com> wrote:
>
>> Aww, you rural folks. Our Family Dollar is only a 12 mile round trip. A
>> couple of years ago they stuck one in Sunsites. Pickup the Mail, hit Family
>> Dollar and the Hardware Store and Home again, Home again ;-)
>
> My wife and I went to our nearest Wal-Mart (among other stores)
> today. I found a suitable, inexpensive camera tripod for my new
> camera at a nearby business. The round trip was 230 miles. We could
> have shaved about 50 miles off that distance by taking the 'scenic
> route', but the scenic route would have involved more miles of
> primitive dirt/rock road than pavement. That would have been fine for
> my Jeep, but we took my wife's more fuel efficient Honda Civic. We
> had lunch in the city and returned home with some fresh fruit, meat
> and other goodies.
>
As of 2 years ago our nearest Wally World is <100 miles down from 120
for 3 different ones!
My truck has been parked for 6 months now (8.1L V8). Wifes Forrester
works just fine.
> We have to go to the nearest small town (in a different county) to
> pick up our mail. The post office doesn't deliver to our home. Home
> mail delivery is not an option for us. Back when I ordered my AP
> refractor, AP called with concerns over the UPS delivery address I had
> provided. At the time we had no house number nor street address. I
> ended up providing a photograph of our home to AP to include on the
> scope's address label! Our area UPS driver was suitably impressed and
> commented on the photo upon delivery of the package . . .
Up until 4 years ago our UPS Address was the Northwest Corner of an
intersection. Had to go to Rural addressing for what they called a "911
number". But anytime FedEx, Airborne or DHL (UPS Knows where we are) need
directions there is a Guest Ranch 1/2 mile west of here that they do know
about and we just tell we're the last place before them.
>
> Then there was the time that my wife filed a complaint with some state
> official when some business refused to honor a mail-in rebate on the
> grounds that we hadn't provided a street address. To make a somewhat
> longer story short, we ended up getting the rebate. Some city folk
> just don't understand what it means to live in a rural area ;-)
>
Had that happen with the Satellite TV Folks.
I'll agree that Cities have their Place. I'm just glad it ain't HERE
;-)
Crazy Ed
Davoud
> My truck has been parked for 6 months now (8.1L V8).
Bet you think to yourself "that wasn't the smartest purchase I ever
made!"
> I'll agree that Cities have their Place. I'm just glad it ain't HERE
That's laughable! You may not want the cities, but you should be
thankful for the urban taxpayers who subsidize the "independent"
frontiersmen of rural America -- particularly the rural west. The
cities are very much with you. I've been to places where there was no
evidence whatsoever of city influence. Unclothed people, life
expectancy at birth 38 for males, 42 for females, no roads, no hygiene
--but the people were very independent and self-reliant. Not someplace
you would want to live. Yes, thank you for giving a nod to the city
taxpayer.
Just hope the blue voters don't decide to impose _real_ independence--
you'd see a hell of a lot of frontiersmen a-tradin' them silly lookin'
cowboy boots for wingtips!
In any case, I'm just glad that your 8.1L V8 ain't in MY driveway.
<http://www.davidillig.com/starcar.shtml>
Davoud
--