The debate rages on with a new study by Alun Salt of the University of
Leicester. “There are quite a few temples in Greece which don’t face
sunrise, so a few archaeologists have published that there’s nothing
significant about the number that do face East. The problem is that no
one has ever said what a significant number would be,” he explained.
-----
Comments, please.
-----
David Christainsen
" “Just saying that Greek temples are oriented towards the Sun
is not enough,” she said. “We need to say why this would
have been important to the Greek cults and what this
importance would have been.” "
" In Greece itself, the less consistent orientation of
temples could reflect local geographical circumstances, or
the way temples were often built on top of older shrines
that were laid out according to a different cosmological and
religious system."
That shows that orientation was not important.
BTW, my toilet is oriented towards the setting sun.
I am far from convinced that you know anything new here.
Instead, why don't you probe deeper and report back to us?
<grin>
David Christainsen
Did you post anything new?
Why don't you probe deeper and report back to us?
[...]
> Comments, please.
It would be strange if ancient buildings didn't take advantage of natural
light and good views (both views out of, and views of the building from
somewhere else) and also defend against unwanted wind - sometimes one
requirement will outweigh the others. Sometimes the nature of the ground
itself will dictate where the building's weight has to stand.
When a solar alignment was important to the builders, it's usually pretty
obvious still; eg the Abu Simbel temples and Newgrange. But that doesn't
mean that it was important for any better reason than a good show, such as
the morning light shining on the altar in a medieval European Christian
church or the 'north light' for an artist's studio or a modern factory. It
doesn't mean that 'sun worship' had anything to do with it.
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
Why don't you give up on your practice of creating long carping
threads whenever someone gives you the opportunity?
Without your attempts at domination there may be a chance of something
worthwhile emerging. As it is you have helped turn this news group
into a wasteland. Your major contributions are those of a bunch of
evil-minded anonymous sock puppets.
Eric Stevens
Thank you Eric, the same to you
In several thousand of David's posts, nothing worthwhile has emerged yet.
Hoping that it will seems to be along the lines of a thousand monkeys
eventually writing Shakespeare.
If they wanted daylight to reach the image of the deity once a day, it
makes sense for the entrance to face the morning sun.
--
Boycott American products
On the other hand..
"if we ever reach Ithaca, our native land, we will straightway build a
rich temple to Helios Hyperion.." Odyssey 12.327
--
Boycott American products
Your lips ---> God's ear.
--
Tom
When Tyrants tremble, sick with fear,
And hear their death-knell ringing;
When friends rejoice, both far and near,
How can I keep from singing.
This one is a good example. Pointing to a newspaper piece,
talking about a non-existent 'raging debate', quoting a
small part that does not justice to the article, followed
by insults and the expectations that others do what he
himself should have done in the first place if there
was a need to do that.
A good show of disinterest in the subject at the most.
And then Eric picking the wrong moment to attack me,
only because 'astronomical alignment' is one of his
hobby horses.
>>>>>> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6922248.ece
>>>>>> The debate rages on with a new study by Alun Salt of the University of
>>>>>> Leicester. “There are quite a few temples in Greece which don’t face
>>>>>> sunrise, so a few archaeologists have published that there’s nothing
>>>>>> significant about the number that do face East. The problem is that no
>>>>>> one has ever said what a significant number would be,†he explained.
>>>>>> -----
>>>>>> Comments, please.
>>>>>> -----
>>>>>> David Christainsen
>>>>> " “Just saying that Greek temples are oriented towards the Sun
>>>>> is not enough,†she said. “We need to say why this would
>>>>> have been important to the Greek cults and what this
>>>>> importance would have been.†"
>>>>>
>>>>> " In Greece itself, the less consistent orientation of
>>>>> temples could reflect local geographical circumstances, or
>>>>> the way temples were often built on top of older shrines
>>>>> that were laid out according to a different cosmological and
>>>>> religious system."
>>>>> That shows that orientation was not important.
>>>>> BTW, my toilet is oriented towards the setting sun.
>>>> I am far from convinced that you know anything new here.
>>>> Instead, why don't you probe deeper and report back to us?
>>>> <grin>
>>> Did you post anything new?
>>> Why don't you probe deeper and report back to us?
>> Why don't you give up on your practice of creating long carping
>> threads whenever someone gives you the opportunity?
>>
>> Without your attempts at domination there may be a chance of something
>> worthwhile emerging. As it is you have helped turn this news group
>> into a wasteland. Your major contributions are those of a bunch of
>> evil-minded anonymous sock puppets.
> Your lips ---> God's ear.
Eric's luck is that God's ear is a bunch of sock puppets.
Thank-you for your polite and informative contribution.
David Christainsen
>Eric Stevens <eric.s...@sum.co.nz> 20/11/2009 09:11 wrote:
>> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 23:17:13 +0100, Peter Alaca
>> <p.a...@invallid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> crunch <pchris...@yahoo.com> 19/11/2009 23:05 wrote:
>>>> On Nov 19, 3:50 pm, Peter Alaca <p.al...@invallid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> crunch <pchristain...@yahoo.com> 19/11/2009 21:24 wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6922248.ece
>>>>>> The debate rages on with a new study by Alun Salt of the University of
>>>>>> Leicester. “There are quite a few temples in Greece which don’t face
>>>>>> sunrise, so a few archaeologists have published that there’s nothing
>>>>>> significant about the number that do face East. The problem is that no
>>>>>> one has ever said what a significant number would be,â€敲 he explained.
>>>>>> -----
>>>>>> Comments, please.
>>>>>> -----
>>>>>> David Christainsen
>>>>> " “Just saying that Greek temples are oriented towards the Sun
>>>>> is not enough,â€敲 she said. “We need to say why this would
>>>>> have been important to the Greek cults and what this
>>>>> importance would have been.â€敲 "
>>>>>
>>>>> " In Greece itself, the less consistent orientation of
>>>>> temples could reflect local geographical circumstances, or
>>>>> the way temples were often built on top of older shrines
>>>>> that were laid out according to a different cosmological and
>>>>> religious system."
>>>>> That shows that orientation was not important.
>>>>> BTW, my toilet is oriented towards the setting sun.
>>>> I am far from convinced that you know anything new here.
>>>> Instead, why don't you probe deeper and report back to us?
>>>> <grin>
>>>>
>>>> David Christainsen
>>> Did you post anything new?
>>> Why don't you probe deeper and report back to us?
>>
>> Why don't you give up on your practice of creating long carping
>> threads whenever someone gives you the opportunity?
>>
>> Without your attempts at domination there may be a chance of something
>> worthwhile emerging. As it is you have helped turn this news group
>> into a wasteland. Your major contributions are those of a bunch of
>> evil-minded anonymous sock puppets.
>>
>>
>>
>> Eric Stevens
>
>Thank you Eric, the same to you
I don't follow persons around with entirely non-productive abusive
posts. When I do post, I post under my own name - always.
Eric Stevens
David has occasionally come up with something new and interesting but
'Peter Alaca's' responses to David never do. I'm not trying to justify
David. I'm expressing annoyance at Peter Alaca's non productive posts
in response to David.
Eric Stevens
To say its a 'hobby horse' is ridiculous. Astronomical alignments
figure large in the construction of many ancient edifices.
Eric Stevens
>Tom McDonald <tmcdon...@charter.net> 20/11/2009 17:25 wrote:
>> Eric Stevens wrote:
>>> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 23:17:13 +0100, Peter Alaca
>>> <p.a...@invallid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> crunch <pchris...@yahoo.com> 19/11/2009 23:05 wrote:
>>>>> On Nov 19, 3:50 pm, Peter Alaca <p.al...@invallid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> crunch <pchristain...@yahoo.com> 19/11/2009 21:24 wrote:
>
>>>>>>> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6922248.ece
>>>>>>> The debate rages on with a new study by Alun Salt of the University of
>>>>>>> Leicester. “There are quite a few temples in Greece which don’t face
>>>>>>> sunrise, so a few archaeologists have published that there’s nothing
>>>>>>> significant about the number that do face East. The problem is that no
>>>>>>> one has ever said what a significant number would be,â€敲 he explained.
>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>> Comments, please.
>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>> David Christainsen
>
>>>>>> " “Just saying that Greek temples are oriented towards the Sun
>>>>>> is not enough,â€敲 she said. “We need to say why this would
>>>>>> have been important to the Greek cults and what this
>>>>>> importance would have been.â€敲 "
>>>>>>
>>>>>> " In Greece itself, the less consistent orientation of
>>>>>> temples could reflect local geographical circumstances, or
>>>>>> the way temples were often built on top of older shrines
>>>>>> that were laid out according to a different cosmological and
>>>>>> religious system."
>>>>>> That shows that orientation was not important.
>>>>>> BTW, my toilet is oriented towards the setting sun.
>
>>>>> I am far from convinced that you know anything new here.
>>>>> Instead, why don't you probe deeper and report back to us?
>>>>> <grin>
>
>>>> Did you post anything new?
>>>> Why don't you probe deeper and report back to us?
>
>>> Why don't you give up on your practice of creating long carping
>>> threads whenever someone gives you the opportunity?
>>>
>>> Without your attempts at domination there may be a chance of something
>>> worthwhile emerging. As it is you have helped turn this news group
>>> into a wasteland. Your major contributions are those of a bunch of
>>> evil-minded anonymous sock puppets.
>
>> Your lips ---> God's ear.
>
>
>Eric's luck is that God's ear is a bunch of sock puppets.
Your bad luck is that your mouth is a bunch of sock puppets.
Eric Stevens
But east is not the alignment of the morning sun. Something else is
going on here.
Eric Stevens
Not as "a bunch of evil minded sock puppets"?
Good of you. Goodbeye.
I am happy with my mouth, so fuck off with your bunch of
evil-minded anonymous sock puppets.
Hmm.. I meant only short time after sunrise.
The statue was in the cella at the back of the temple, usually no
windows, so the sun has to be very low to light up that area.
> Something else is going on here.
Homer seems to have Trinacria (Sicily) and surroundings (Circe as
daughter of Helios) as the domain of the sun god. Maybe just because
the sun sets in the west. Otherwise perhaps alluding to local customs,
which the Greeks then adopted with the orientation of their sancuaries
there?
--
Boycott American products
A bit sensitive about this, are you?
Eric Stevens
I would if I had any.
Eric Stevens
Mind your own business, evil minded sock puppet.
You do know what a sock puppet is, don't you?
Its the practice of using more than one false identity to post on
different topics or different sides of an argument.
I have never posted except under my own name but you have regularly
posted under at least two false identities as well as your own name.
So, who is the sock puppet?
Eric Stevens
Another one of your usual dirty tricks
> You do know what a sock puppet is, don't you?
>
> Its the practice of using more than one false identity to post on
> different topics or different sides of an argument.
And another
You are a dirty bastard. I never did anything like that in my life
> I have never posted except under my own name
If that is true, it is your choice. Live with it.
> but you have regularly
> posted under at least two false identities as well as your own name.
> So, who is the sock puppet?
Identify last weeks sock puppets:
Crunch, JTEM, Jack Linthicum, Weland, Peter Alaca, Tom McDonald,
Eric Stevens, Tiglath, Matt Giwer, Lee Olsen, Mike R, Italo, George,
Australia Mining Pioneer & Founder of the True Geology, ADR, Kendall K
Down, Sir David, philosophy, Peter Jason, VtSkier, Whiskers, Greatest
Mining Pioneer of Australia of all Times, Thomas Zahr,
benl...@ihug.co.nz, Poetic Justice, SolomonW, rogueclassicist, Glenn
Meyer, Elijahovah, AgitProp, kangarooistan, Andrew, Dom, Searching For
The Truth, J Antero, Horace LaBadie, Sunny, Nomen Publicus, Per Rønne,
Paul Murray, Hayabusa
I have a trick of my own: I have never seen you posting
anything archaeological.
On the contrary Eric Stevens is among the best
of contributors to sci.archaeology.
David Christainsen
--- snip ----
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Eric Stevens
>>>>>>> Thank you Eric, the same to you
>>>>>> I don't follow persons around with entirely non-productive abusive
>>>>>> posts. When I do post, I post under my own name - always.
>>>>> Not as "a bunch of evil minded sock puppets"?
>>>>> Good of you. Goodbeye.
>>>>>
>>>> A bit sensitive about this, are you?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Eric Stevens
>>> Mind your own business, evil minded sock puppet.
>
>Another one of your usual dirty tricks
You are getting confused. "Mind your own business, evil minded sock
puppet" was written by you. Its your own line.
>
>> You do know what a sock puppet is, don't you?
>>
>> Its the practice of using more than one false identity to post on
>> different topics or different sides of an argument.
>
>And another
>You are a dirty bastard. I never did anything like that in my life
Are you claiming you have only had one false identity in this news
group? Its easy to show you are wrong if you do.
>
>> I have never posted except under my own name
>
>If that is true, it is your choice. Live with it.
>
> > but you have regularly
>> posted under at least two false identities as well as your own name.
>> So, who is the sock puppet?
You evade the question and try to change the subject.
>
>Identify last weeks sock puppets:
>Crunch, JTEM, Jack Linthicum, Weland, Peter Alaca, Tom McDonald,
>Eric Stevens, Tiglath, Matt Giwer, Lee Olsen, Mike R, Italo, George,
>Australia Mining Pioneer & Founder of the True Geology, ADR, Kendall K
>Down, Sir David, philosophy, Peter Jason, VtSkier, Whiskers, Greatest
>Mining Pioneer of Australia of all Times, Thomas Zahr,
>benl...@ihug.co.nz, Poetic Justice, SolomonW, rogueclassicist, Glenn
>Meyer, Elijahovah, AgitProp, kangarooistan, Andrew, Dom, Searching For
>The Truth, J Antero, Horace LaBadie, Sunny, Nomen Publicus, Per R�nne,
>Paul Murray, Hayabusa
Some of the above may be sock puppets but many are genuine people
posting under their own names.
>
>I have a trick of my own: I have never seen you posting
>anything archaeological.
Then you are blind.
Eric Stevens
This language from Peter Alaca is unacceptable on
our NG.
> Are you claiming you have only had one false identity in this news
> group? Its easy to show you are wrong if you do.
>
>
>
> >> I have never posted except under my own name
I find Peter Alaca's answer here untruthful.
> >If that is true, it is your choice. Live with it.
>
> > > but you have regularly
> >> posted under at least two false identities as well as your own name.
> >> So, who is the sock puppet?
>
> You evade the question and try to change the subject.
>
>
>
> >Identify last weeks sock puppets:
> >Crunch, JTEM, Jack Linthicum, Weland, Peter Alaca, Tom McDonald,
> >Eric Stevens, Tiglath, Matt Giwer, Lee Olsen, Mike R, Italo, George,
> >Australia Mining Pioneer & Founder of the True Geology, ADR, Kendall K
> >Down, Sir David, philosophy, Peter Jason, VtSkier, Whiskers, Greatest
> >Mining Pioneer of Australia of all Times, Thomas Zahr,
> >benli...@ihug.co.nz, Poetic Justice, SolomonW, rogueclassicist, Glenn
> >Meyer, Elijahovah, AgitProp, kangarooistan, Andrew, Dom, Searching For
> >The Truth, J Antero, Horace LaBadie, Sunny, Nomen Publicus, Per Rønne,
> >Paul Murray, Hayabusa
>
> Some of the above may be sock puppets but many are genuine people
> posting under their own names.
I always post under my own name; I never use a
false identity.
> >I have a trick of my own: I have never seen you posting
> >anything archaeological.
>
> Then you are blind.
>
> Eric Stevens
Peter Alaca's dishonesty is there for all to see while
Eric Stevens' honesty and informative contribution to sci.arch
make him above reproach in my eyes.
David Christainsen
Says "Crunch"
>>> I have a trick of my own: I have never seen you posting
>>> anything archaeological.
>> Then you are blind.
>>
>> Eric Stevens
>
> Peter Alaca's dishonesty is there for all to see while
> Eric Stevens' honesty and informative contribution to sci.arch
> make him above reproach in my eyes.
>
> David Christainsen
>
Yes, you not only like a good thrash, but also a good arse to lick.
You are not the man you pretend to be; you have been
exposed. I give you more training in archaeology than
myself but it is worthless without honesty. Honesty is
the best policy. Just make the change from now on
and forgiveness is yours.
David Christainsen
>>>> The Truth, J Antero, Horace LaBadie, Sunny, Nomen Publicus, Per R�nne,
>>>> Paul Murray, Hayabusa
>>> Some of the above may be sock puppets but many are genuine people
>>> posting under their own names.
>
>> I always post under my own name; I never use a
>> false identity.
>
>Says "Crunch"
Take your pills. It was me.
>
>>>> I have a trick of my own: I have never seen you posting
>>>> anything archaeological.
>>> Then you are blind.
>>>
>>> Eric Stevens
>>
>> Peter Alaca's dishonesty is there for all to see while
>> Eric Stevens' honesty and informative contribution to sci.arch
>> make him above reproach in my eyes.
>>
>> David Christainsen
>>
>
>Yes, you not only like a good thrash, but also a good arse to lick.
Eric Stevens
Stuff your evil minded sock puppets where they belong.
>>>>>> The Truth, J Antero, Horace LaBadie, Sunny, Nomen Publicus, Per R�nne,
>>>>>> Paul Murray, Hayabusa
>>>>> Some of the above may be sock puppets but many are genuine people
>>>>> posting under their own names.
>>>> I always post under my own name; I never use a
>>>> false identity.
>>> Says "Crunch"
>>
>> Take your pills. It was me.
> Stevens
>
>Stuff your evil minded sock puppets where they belong.
You seem to be not lost for words: only meaningful content.
Eric Stevens
Seriously?
Says the person who posted as Carl.
Says the person now posting as crunch.
Says the person using someone else's email address.
Just for giggles, since I refuse to read all of the 36 posts on this
thread, is the original paper from PLoS.
Alun M. Salt*
School of Archaeology and Ancient History, University of Leicester,
Leicester, United Kingdom
Abstract Top
Despite its appearing to be a simple question to answer, there has
been no consensus as to whether or not the alignments of ancient Greek
temples reflect astronomical intentions. Here I present the results of
a survey of archaic and classical Greek temples in Sicily and compare
them with temples in Greece. Using a binomial test I show strong
evidence that there is a preference for solar orientations. I then
speculate that differences in alignment patterns between Sicily and
Greece reflect differing pressures in the expression of ethnic
identity.
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0007903
Yes; as usual you fail to pay sufficient attention
to detail.
> Says the person who posted as Carl.
That's my middle name; it is not false; it was
some time ago. Why do you bring ancient
history up? My full name has ALWAYS been
in my Google Account profile.
> Says the person now posting as crunch.
Yet, I have explained many times on usenet
that "Crunch" is my childhood nickname; it is
not false; why do you bring it up?
> Says the person using someone else's email address.
My yahoo email account, based on my late father's account,
was cancelled last June. This has NOTHING to do with my
usenet posts which as a matter of policy I sign with "David
Christainsen".
I conclude that Paul Murray is not a serious person and
I certainly will not waste my time from now on in correspondence
with such a dead-end.
David Christainsen
will you start posting as "Asshole" your new nickname?