Who Can Translate Old English?
Stephen Horrillo
the tombstone of Virginia Dare (the first child born in America). Anyone
out there know Old English? Any help would be greatly appreciated. If
I'm posting this in the wrong place please advise as to where someone
could answer this question.
"Father soone After yov goe for Englande we cam hither/ onlie misarie &
warretow yeare/ Above halfe DeaDe ere tow yeere moore from sickenes
beine fovre & twentie/ salvage with menage of shipp vnto vs/ smal space
of time they affrite of revenge rann al awaye/ wee bleeve yt nott you/
soone after ye salvages faine spirts angrie/ suddiane mvrther al save
leaven/ mine childeananias to slaine wth mvch misarie-/bvrie al neere
fovre myles easte this river vppon smal hil/ names writ al ther on
rocke/pvtt this ther alsoe/ salvage Shew this vnto yov & hither wee
promise yov to give greate plentie presents E W D"
The bars in the text represent conjectural sentence divisions.
All the best,
K. E. Dennis
child born in America).
May I ask where you heard about this artefact, its provenance /or
description in any publication? SFAIK, Virginia Dare has no
tombstone. Her fate - that of the other Roanoke settlers - is unknown.
Most accounts of which I am aware say that when Sir. John White
arrived back @ Roanoke Island in 1590, he found only the remains of
the settlement palisades, on one post of which was carved "CRO" -
some accts say "CROATOAN." No other signs of the settlers were found.
OTOH I have a vague recollection of hearing once about some hoax
inscriptions, purportedly by a mbr of the Dare family, "discovered"
in the early 20th c., this may be the ultimate source of the text you
quote.
Anyone out there know Old English?
If the purported inscription were in fact in Old English - aka Anglo-
Saxon - that would be fairly conclusive evidence that the artefact is
a forgery. Old English had its heyday ca. 600-1100 CE.The language
spoken by the Roanoke settlers would have been Early Modern English
[ca. 1500-1800 CE].
Any help would be greatly appreciated. If I'm posting this in the
wrong place please advise as to where someone could answer this
question.
You might try sci.lang; however, I would strongly recommend reading
the newsgroup FAQ before posting there.I can tell you that I'm not
especially impressed myself by the passage, as it looks like the sort
of pastiche *I* would write if I were trying to be 'Elizabethan' [tho
I flatter myself I'd show a better regard for the grammatical
flourishes of the time]. But I'm not a linguist.
A quick- -dirty rendition, w/ interpolations for easier reading:
"Father soone After yov goe for Englande we cam hither/
"Father, soon after you left we came here" onlie misarie warretow
yeare/
"only misery war [for] 2 years" Above halfe DeaDe ere tow yeere
moore from sickenes beine fovre twentie/
"about half dead before [i.e., w/in] 2 years more, from sickness,
being [i.e., numbering] 24" salvage with menage of shipp vnto vs/
"savage(s) with [a] company [lit., 'household'] of ship(s) [came] to
us" smal space of time they affrite of revenge rann al awaye/
"[in a] small space of time they ran away, afraid of revenge" wee
bleeve yt nott you/
"we believe it was not you"Note that this implies some other party
frightened off the attackers.
soone after ye salvages
"soon after, the savages"faine spirts angrie/
"faine spirts angrie" is simply gibberish, but this was probably
intended by the writer to be read as something like "with angry
spirits." suddiane mvrther al save leaven/
"suddenly murdered all [of us] except 11" mine childeananias to
slaine wth mvch misarie-/
"my child Ananias, too, slain with much misery" bvrie al neere fovre
myles easte this river vppon smal hil/
"[we did] bury all about [lit., nearly] 4 miles east [of] this river
upon [a] small hill" names writ al ther on rocke/
"names written all there on [a] rock" pvtt this ther alsoe/
"put this there also" salvage Shew this vnto yov hither wee promise
yov to give greate plentie presents E W D"
"[if a] savage shows this to you here, we promised that you would
give many large presents. E.W.D."All I can say is that if *I* were
leaving a message for my father in the hopes he'd come rescue me, I
wouldn't use most of the rock face detailing sad history.
I'd write something like "Wee arre atte ye vilagge of POWHATAN -
manie arre dead. GO este bye the river 2 leagues, ther is a pass threw
the woods it is mark'd with redde painte atte the highte of a manne.
Giv the sauvage who shews yow this a greate presente, he wil guide
you thither."
respectfully submitted,
|K. E. Dennis den...@mail.montclair.edu |My employer is not
responsible for my opinions, |regardless of how sensible they are.
Vaipen
<ste...@stephenhorrillo.com> eloquently sang the following hymns:
I certainly cannot. But this is somewhat readable even to me. My native
language is Dutch. I could try a bit. Let's see:
"Father, soon after you have gone for england we came here/ Only misery
and warretow this year. Above half= After half? a DeaDe to year more
sickness has been five and twentie/
Maybe something like 'After half a year there was more sickness for 25
days.'?
The something about salvaging (resxuing? a small ship onto us.
After a small space of time they were all afraid of revenge and ran
away.
I guess these people tried to salvage or loot a ship and this person
came along with others and chased them off? Or did they rescue a ship
and the men aboard ran away?
"We believe it is not you".
"Soon after we salavaged the fine spirits became angry. Suddenly mother
(wanted us) to leave and save ourselves. My children and I were slain
with much misery. Burry them all close 5 miles away east of the river
uppon a small hill. All their names written on a rock. Put this there
also. Rescue Shew this onto you. (Hither wee)= I will be here a short
while" ???
"Promise you I will gave you great plenty presents. E.W.D."
I'd be interested to see other interpretations. Where was this found?
Near a
river on top of a hill or nearby?
Vaipen
dwelsh46
news:LmucedBw...@samposter.demon.co.uk...
This is just standard 16th-17th century English purportedly written by a
not
particularly literate person. At that time there were no dictionaries
and
there was no standard spelling. A free "translation:"
Father, soon after you go [went] to England we came here
only misery and war two year[s]Above half [are] dead ere [before] two
year[s] more from sickness being four and twenty [twenty-four]
savage[s] with men [?] of ship unto us [note: this part is unclear, it
might perhaps refer to a Spanish raid] [in a] small space of time they
[were] frightened of revenge [and] all ran away we believe[d] it [was]
not you soon after the savages feign [? this may mean became] angry
spirits sudden murder [of] all save eleven my child ananias too [was]
slain with much misery [We] buried all near [about] four miles east [of]
this river upon [a] small hill
[Their] names [were] writ[ten] all there on [a] rock
[I] put this there also [We told the] savage[s] [to] show this unto you
& hither [then] we promise you to [will] give [them a] great plenty [of]
presents
E.W.D.
--
Dave Welsh
dave...@earthlink.net
Stephen Horrillo
This is just standard 16th-17th century English purportedly written
by a not particularly literate person. At that time there were no
dictionaries and there was no standard spelling. A free
"translation:"
Father, soon after you go [went] to England we came
here only misery and war two year[s]Above half [are] dead ere [before]
two year[s] more from sickness being four and twenty [twenty-four]
savage[s] with men [?] of ship unto us [note: this part is unclear,
it might perhaps refer to a Spanish raid] [in a] small space of time
they [were] frightened of revenge [and] all ran away we believe[d] it
[was] not you soon after the savages feign [? this may mean became]
angry spirits sudden murder [of] all save eleven my child ananias too
[was] slain with much misery [We] buried all near [about] four miles
east [of] this river upon [a] small hill [Their] names [were]
writ[ten] all there on [a] rock [I] put this there also [We told the]
savage[s] [to] show this unto you & hither [then] we promise you to
[will] give [them a] great plenty [of] presents E.W.D.
Just got a reply from Dr. E. Thomson Shields, Jr., director of the
Roanoke Colonies Research Office. This is how he translated it...
"Father, soon after you went to England, we came here. [We had] Only
misery and war-[for] two years. Above half [of us] are dead for over
two years from sickness, [we] now being four and twenty [i.e., 24].
[A] savage with a message of a ship [came] to us. [After] a small
amount of time, they [became] frightened about revenge [and] [they]
all ran away. We do not believe it [was] you. Soon afterwards, the
savages feigned [i.e., pretended] [that the] spirits [were] angry.
Suddenly [they] murdered all except seven [of us]. My child-[and]
Annanias, too[-was] slain with much misery. All were buried about
four miles east [of] this river upon a small hill. [Their] names [are]
all written there on [a] rock [or, perhaps, on rocks]. [I will] put
[this] there also. [A] savage [will] show this to you and for this we
promised you would give [them] a great [and] plenty [number] of
presents. EWD [i.e., Eleanore White Dare]"
I made a simple web site and corrected some of my typo's if anyone
would like to take a crack at improving on the above. http://www.
angelfire.com/ego/iammagi/dare_stone.htm
One person translated it to sound as if the colonist's suspected it
might be people from the ship who attacked them, but they didn't
believe it was White's ship.
Paul Burke
>
> These are the words that appear on the back of an artifact,
purportedly
> the tombstone of Virginia Dare (the first child born in America).
> "Father soone After yov goe for Englande we cam hither/ onlie misarie
&
> warretow yeare/ Above halfe DeaDe ere tow yeere moore from sickenes
> beine fovre & twentie/ salvage with menage of shipp vnto vs....
Probably a nineteenth century or later forgery. It's just about
plausible in parts as early modern English, but the provenance and
content stink. After all, what's the point of writing a letter to your
parents on the back of a tombstone? (and before anyone says Father
refers to God, they wouldn't address God like that then.) And doesn't it
sound like someone had read the dreaded KRS?
Paul Burke
Mike Girouard
discussion].
Paul Burke <pa...@scazon.com> wrote in message
news:<x08atyCx...@walcots1.demon.co.uk>...
There's a lively debate on this subject going on in sci.lang for those
who are interested.
FoggyTown