Hittite names
FKoe
Troy. He needs a couple of genuine-sounding Hittite names. We guess
that the original language, Luwian, is so thoroughly lost that there
is no sense in looking for names in that language. Could anybody
help?
FKoe Aachen Pere...@T-Online.de
___________________________________
ogni pensiero vola
Barbarossa
online.de (FKoe) wrote:
>I would like to get some help for a friend who is writing a story on
>Troy. He needs a couple of genuine-sounding Hittite names. We guess
>that the original language, Luwian, is so thoroughly lost that there
>is no sense in looking for names in that language. Could anybody
>help?
BRYCE, Trevor: 'The Kindom of the Hittites' 1998 Oxford, Clarendon Press
ISBN 0-19-814095-9
Gives these names in the King List:
[Old Kingdom ~1650 - 1400]
Labarna
Hattusili
Musili
Hantili
Zidanta
Ammuna
Huzziya
Telipinu
Alluwamna
Tahurwaili
Muwaralli
[New Kingdom 1400 - 1207 adds:]
Tudhaliya
Arnuwanda
Suppiluliuma
Urhi-Tesub
Kurunta
(and of course many names are repeated III or IV times ;^)
I suspect that the above book will have all the names that are known.
--
______________B_a_r_b_a_r_o_s_s_a_______________ ;^{>
Wayne B. Hewitt Encinitas, CA
whe...@ucsd.edu
139aa0000-WeissB(DR9217)37z33
pere...@t-online.de (FKoe):
> I would like to get some help for a friend who is writing a story on
> Troy. He needs a couple of genuine-sounding Hittite names. We guess
> that the original language, Luwian, is so thoroughly lost that there
> is no sense in looking for names in that language. Could anybody
> help?
>
> ___________________________________
> ogni pensiero vola
Actually Luwian is not thoroughly lost. Luwian documents appear in the
Hittite archives. Hieroglyphic Hittite is actually Luwian. Lycian is a
descendant language. Names of rulers of Arzawa, Mira-Kuwalia, Seha River
Land, and other 10th-8th century states are known. Unfortunately, I can't
tell you any of them offhand. You might check O.R. Gurney's "The Hittites"
available through Penguin or the Cambridge Ancient History for starters.
Barry Weiss
email me at b...@dr.lucent.com and not at the address above
--
WeissBE
pete
`In article <2nNbQNA4...@galatham.demon.co.uk>, peregrine@t-
`online.de (FKoe) wrote:
`>I would like to get some help for a friend who is writing a story on
`>Troy. He needs a couple of genuine-sounding Hittite names. We guess
`>that the original language, Luwian, is so thoroughly lost that there
`>is no sense in looking for names in that language. Could anybody
`>help?
`BRYCE, Trevor: 'The Kindom of the Hittites' 1998 Oxford, Clarendon Press
`ISBN 0-19-814095-9
`Gives these names in the King List:
`[Old Kingdom ~1650 - 1400]
`Labarna
`Hattusili
[remaining names snipped by moderator for brevity; please see previous
post]
These are a long way from Paris and Hector, aren't they? I wonder what
if any source Homer had for his nomenclature. He certainly put a lot
of effort into listing names, as I recall, particularly for the
Greek side, of course. It always struck me that this part of the
tale was transcribed from community lore, as seen in lots of warlike
societies, where the names of combatants in major conflicts are
recited for centuries thereafter. I would expect that would be the
source of the names for the Greeks in the Illiad, but I wonder
if there would have been any tradition of memorizing the names of
the enemy? The form of the Illiad seems to suggest there was.
Sorry I can't think of much in the way of real arch. content for
this post; I know little about Troy, but I don't think there
has been any writing recovered from there, has there?
--
==========================================================================
vin...@triumf.ca <== faster % Pete Vincent
vin...@vcn.bc.ca (freenet) % Disclaimer: all I know I
% learned from reading Usenet.
Barbarossa
`BRYCE, Trevor: 'The Kindom of the Hittites' 1998 Oxford, Clarendon Press
`ISBN 0-19-814095-9
`Gives these names in the King List:
`[Old Kingdom ~1650 - 1400]
`Labarna
`Hattusili
In article <375a9...@news.pacifier.com>, VIN...@reg.Triumf.CA (pete)
wrote:
>These are a long way from Paris and Hector, aren't they? I wonder what
>if any source Homer had for his nomenclature.
[ ... ]
The name 'Hector' is certainly an ancient one. It was found on an old
Anatolian inscription (from Hittite times, if not Hittite) rendered as
'E-ko-to.'
The son of Hector, Astyanax, is a simple Greek rendering of 'Astu-Wanax,'
meaning "Prince of the City," if my extremely limited Greek is correct. In
that vein, IIRC, Memnon and Agamemnon mean "resolute" and "most resolute"
respectively.
Robert Stonehouse
...
>These are a long way from Paris and Hector, aren't they? I wonder what
>if any source Homer had for his nomenclature.
befits his role in the poem. Many names on the Greek side too are
significant: see L.R. Palmer, the Greeek Language, 2.2. Mind, he
makes the point that many real names were significant, often in much
the same way.
ew...@bcs.org.uk
139aa0000-WeissB(DR9217)37z33
b...@knossos.dr.att.com (139aa0000-WeissB(DR9217)37z33):
>> Troy. He needs a couple of genuine-sounding Hittite names. We guess
>> that the original language, Luwian, is so thoroughly lost that there
>> is no sense in looking for names in that language. Could anybody
>> help?
>>
>> ___________________________________
>> ogni pensiero vola
>
> Actually Luwian is not thoroughly lost. Luwian documents appear in the
> Hittite archives. Hieroglyphic Hittite is actually Luwian. Lycian is a
> descendant language. Names of rulers of Arzawa, Mira-Kuwalia, Seha River
> Land, and other 10th-8th century states are known. Unfortunately, I can't
> tell you any of them offhand. You might check O.R. Gurney's "The Hittites"
> available through Penguin or the Cambridge Ancient History for starters.
>
Another work which just came to mine: Philo Houwink ten Cate's (spelling?)
"Luwian Populations ....". Unfortunately, I can't remember the complete
title, it's rather long. It's a long treatise that deals with Luwian
peoples of the Hellenistic period. But it has numerous references to
Hellenized names of the people of Anatolia. It also, as I recall,
analyzes the elements of the names.
I didn't realize you were German when I first saw your question.
The Germans excavated Hattusas (in fact I think the excavations are
still ongoing); Hittite studies are of course dominated by German
scholars and an awful lot of material is published in German, which
I unfortunately cannot read. I recall there is a rather long Ph.D.
thesis written on Arzawa, the chief Luwian state in western Anatolia
in the Late Bronze Age (author escapes me).
Barry Weiss
b...@dr.lucent.com
--
WeissBE
FKoe
> I don't think there
>has been any writing recovered from there, has there?
Yes there has been some: a word or two on the seal ring of some
high-ranking official, found in 1998 in Troy VI by the Korfmann team
which is presently digging. The language was hittite.
Troy had the hittite name Willuwa which became Ilion. Another city had
the name Millawata which is believed to be Milet. I cannot guess what
the graecized name Hector was originally.
Chris Pitt Lewis
writes
[Quoted material snipped by moderator]]
>These are a long way from Paris and Hector, aren't they? I wonder what
>if any source Homer had for his nomenclature. He certainly put a lot
>of effort into listing names, as I recall, particularly for the
>Greek side, of course. It always struck me that this part of the
>tale was transcribed from community lore, as seen in lots of warlike
>societies, where the names of combatants in major conflicts are
>recited for centuries thereafter. I would expect that would be the
>source of the names for the Greeks in the Illiad, but I wonder
>if there would have been any tradition of memorizing the names of
>the enemy? The form of the Illiad seems to suggest there was.
>Sorry I can't think of much in the way of real arch. content for
>this post; I know little about Troy, but I don't think there
>has been any writing recovered from there, has there?
>
>--
Actually, it was suggested long ago that some Hittites do turn up in
Homer. In Odyssey 11/521 there is mention of how, at Troy, Neoptolemos
killed Eurypylos son of Telephos, leader of the Keteioi or Kheteioi.
Kheteioi looks very like Hatti, and the leader might be Urpallas son of
Telepinus, known Hittite names.
See for example G L Huxley, Achaeans and Hittites (Oxford 1960) p 40.
The original suggestion that Kheteioi equals Hittites was apparently
made by W E Gladstone.
I wonder if more recent scholarship would still agree?
--
Chris Pitt Lewis
JoatSimeon
dropping sounds they found difficult and tacking on Greek endings. (They were
also notoriously reluctant to learn other languages).
This is probably an ancient mind-set.
-- S.M. Stirling
[joats...@aol.com]