Here it goes. Has anyone noticed that when one Kook
disappears a new one shows up. Just as soon as one is
thrashed a new one pops up or an old one flys out of the
woodwork, it is almost like a tennis ball server or
some instrument is throwing them.
Premise 1. The kooks cannot withstand or put forth logical
Premise 2. In their attacks against science they fly
head long into the published literature, in which savvy
individuals to show them there ignorance.
Conclusion as a result their arguments are beaten to the
point they are summarily discounted by most in the group.
Their supporters are left disenfranchised after a while, and
the run back into the cobwebs and dark places from which
Observation. That as soon as one kook disappears a new kook
Hypothetical Premise. What if the disappearances of one kook
is associated with the reappearance of others.
Hyperdiffusionist Kook Theory of Science Groups on the
This theory stipulates that the kooks that invade and
recitate odd and unsupported theories on the UseNet are
connected via an unseen network behind the scenes. As part
of the agreement kooks in this diffusionist network
cooperate, not diluting one kooks argument until he is
thoroughly thrashed and has not other recourse than shut-up
or make an ass out of him or herself like Inger/Larry do.
Once one kook get tired of being kicked around like a mangey
street dog, they leave and a new junk-yard shows up to show
the world that mangey dogs have a place in acedemia. This
cycle repeats itself over and over again.
During the respite period of the kook, he gathers new
'junk' data or tries to reconcoct his theory in order to
make it appear that he has corrected old problems. The
individual may create a web-site of evenm try top squeeze
his junk into a publication or meeting which he can then
cite in the next go round. He/she may also be scanning
newsgroups or other groups for new argument techniques, or
carrying on email conversations trying to build support
behind the scenes for the next go round.
At the end of this period the individual gathers
sufficient nerve and sense of empowerment and once again
goes on the offensive, spreading to new niave venues (as
Jabby does), involving new groups of peoples, etc.
I think this new theory is adequate to explain many
1. Old Earth Creationist (Jabriol)
2. Young Earth Creationist
3. Extraterrestrial Creationist (Ed Conrad, Sirvent)
4. In Situ Creationist (Floyd, MIB)
5. Ape Theorist (MV, McGinn, Howard, Many others)
6. Hyperdiffusionist (Inger, Eric, Larry, others)
and a long list.
I think a conspiracy theory is warranted here as a perfect
explanation for the tandem and cyclical nature of the
arguments that we see. We can add to this the restrictions
placed on posting by talk.origins have notably increased the
direct posting by 2 kooks. Notice the number of threads
current that are authored by Ed Conrad but not followed up,
the same is true with Jabriol. With their target audiance
unable to increase the level of discussion of their target,
they are forced to increase their targeting of s.a.p. Inger
is an excellent example of this in sci.archaeology in which
her arguments are thoroughyl trashed she immediately shifts
the arguments to her potential victimization by all kinds of
villianous acts. We can see that these individuals try to
afford the occupation of groups with their activities, and
this generally continues till a new round of kooks show up
and take over. As a result I think it is safe to say
conspiracy to dominate groups with off-topic and illogical
material abounds in the science groups, with collaboration
by the kooks to perpertrate pollutive and unscientific
discussions for no other reason than to undermine the
purpose of groups.
As a result rather than waste our time discussing with
each kook the specific reasons why the individual is a kook
we need a new comprehensive theory and a constant thread in
which each of these theories are combined into a single
theory in which they can debate add nauseum about nothing,
joining and leaving that thread, wasting endless hours
looking for data to support that theory, and then after
spinning wheels for months, leaving and 'figuring' and
What we need here is the perfect Kook Theory as a Diversion.
Sort of like chinese handcuffs.
Here are several proposals
Hyperdiffusionist Creation theory.
The error with creation theory is that it does not
adequately service all the different versions of
creationism. The Hyperdiffusionist Creation theory has
it that animals were created in many places, each being told
they were the first humans; however. As a result when these
humans contacted each other they discovered that their were
contradictions (hyperdiffusiionist critique). God
individually transformed all of these to Mankind and then
told them new stories
God told them they were
1. Brought by aliens
2. Born of exotic animals
3. Made from Dirt
4. Born of water
5. Born of Coal.
Then he told each group that the others were not first but
the other groups existed to provide their group with wives
for marrying. [This explains the inconsistency in the
God also provided longrange sea transport for any culture
that wanted to travel. Some groups were afraid so that they
were taken back to land after 40 days and told it was a
flood. The other groups were taken on guided tours of other
lands and returned after sharing techniques. God placed
roped bobbles just under the oceans surface that were marked
such that the ancient travels could tell longitude and
latitude. Each bottle contained a strong magnet that caused
the dial in the sun compassed to vibrate when it got close
to a longitudinal degree radian. However over time these
floatation deviced leaked and sank to the bottom of the
For groups of people who believed they came from the ocean
he placed pearl bearing oysters at different depth
encouraging them to dive, For groups of people who believe
they came from the dirt, he had glowing mountains in which
commandments on how to live were given.
As god's testosterone levels increased he created more
groups; however, finally all this pleasing every group got
complicated and God ran out of testosterone and so currently
he is living in a cave alongside a lake in mongolia.
In order to explain culture this theory would have that all
culture was originally created by God after transforming
humans. At first god showed humans how to knapp stone, but
as per constant instruction resulting in massively swollen
hands god moved to teaching humans new techniques, like
pottery, and things that were easier to teach. The stone
tools that exist for 2.6 million years were failed attempts
to teach earlier creations.
The origin of God of course is a mystery; however in this
theory God was a Neandertal, with a superior intellect, had
discovered the fountain of youth and was doing genetics on
the lessor humans from africa. Over time however, the
Neandertals stopped having sex and began to die off, only
one very long lived Neandertal was left, and he traveled
around on his Sled with 8 reindeer, administering stories
and advice to all the worlds peoples. This is why the
reindeer species is spread so widely in the arctic.
This little addition takes into consideration what happened
to the not-intellectually inferior Neandertals (for AVG).
Neandertals were actually an alien species from another
planet and had secretly lived in Pennsylvania Coal Mines and
Europe for 250,000,000 years [reason why neandertals had a
long nasal region was to protect from brown lung disease].
One of the deficiencies of NEandertals is that he cannot
swim. In their attempts to interbreed with aquatic humans,
which at that time could only have sex underwater, the
Neandertals drowned and this is why Gods died out.
Anyone is free to add additional meat to this composite
theory of human evolution and archaeology if they want.
My take on this one is that there is a fundamental need in the universe for
a Kook, therefore, when one Kook leaves another must be created. The
Kookiness therefore must be transferred in some way.
I propose that the kookiness is transferred by fundamental particles which I
name (in full recognition of gluons, muons, gravitons etc) Morons.
I suspect that Moron transferrence is instantaneous and propose a series of
experiments where kooks are executed in a faraday cage under strict lab
conditions in the presence of a potential kook. the spped of new-kook
emergence can be timed. If we can only find a moron proof shield we could
execute kooks inside the shield and prevent moron transmission and,
hopefully, the spread of kookiness.
(with apologies to Pterry)
1) One needs to create a new ng: kook.origins to discuss and
worship/vilify various kook/kook theories
2) I think you are onto something with you astute analysis of kook /
ng dynamics. Their may be a stochastic distribution of kooks at any
given time but in each ng perhaps there is an alpha-kook...
3) kookism is relative: we would all be kooks in either the 15th or
Philip Deitiker wrote:
> I think we need a new theory here. Everybody has a
> conspiracy theory and I have mine.
> Here it goes.
[..] ....and there went.
It was OFF TOPIC once again, and an attempt to pick another fight and
SIR - Philosopher unauthorised
The one who is educated from the wrong books is not educated, he is
I think Philip expressed the frustration a lot of us feel about the content
of these newsgroups and did it with a lot more humor and spice than I could
A few months back I would read a posting in SAP and wonder what this person
or that would say about the topic and regret that that particular person
didn't post here anymore. Think of the non-kooks this group (and SA, too?)
this group has lost. Now interesting topics are smothered by kook posts.
Paleoanthropology seems to be exploding , folks, it's got to be like
watching the first manned moon shot, and here we are in this mud puddle,
shooting damp clods back and forth. Is this the best we can do?
Oh Dear! Oh NO! We can't have this. Surely not the EXECUTION
of kooks. Oh, how politically incorrect! Surely it would be
better to rehabilitate them? I picture a large brick structure
with guard posts and towers, where kooks might be required to
experience daily inspirational motivational presentations, on
logic and proper scientific skepticism. And then, once rehab-
ilitated, they might be released back into our society (under
close supervision, of course) and become useful and productive
citizens once again.
To discover if they are properly rehabilitated, they'd be allowed
access to a computer equipped with a 1.44 modem, every 6 months
or so, and observed for an hour.
Those that fail the test more than 3 times might be required to
listen to an endless recording of Fran Dresher reading their own
posts, from the Google archives.
Much more than humane, I think.
>I think we need a new theory here. Everybody has a
>conspiracy theory and I have mine.
>Here it goes. Has anyone noticed that when one Kook
>disappears a new one shows up. Just as soon as one is
>thrashed a new one pops up or an old one flys out of the
>woodwork, it is almost like a tennis ball server or
>some instrument is throwing them.
I think we get the best Kook theory by slightly adapting Feynmann's
electron theory as explained by Atkins:
There is only one Kook in the universe, and what we think of as a lot
of Kooks is actually a slice through that Kook's path as it whizzes
backwards and forwards in time. That would certainly be an economical
Kåre A. Lie
What a strange, strange definition of the word "humane"...
David Johnson home.earthlink.net/~trolleyfan
"You're a loony, you are!"
"They said that about Galileo, they said that about Einstein..."
"Yeah, and they said it about a good few loonies, too!"
Waitaminute! Not quite. I'm all for out of Africa. I'm just
against the land bridge because it violates the rules of
evolution. Now don't you feel retarded.
> 5. Ape Theorist (MV, McGinn, Howard, Many others)
> 6. Hyperdiffusionist (Inger, Eric, Larry, others)
> and a long list.
Including Philip himself, since he insists those Japanese
taught Indians how to make spears that don't appear in
Japan. Sorry, but I don't know what to call that except
hyperdiffusionist. ESPECIALLY someone who thinks Clovis
is in Alaska when his very post says otherwise!
BTW, you have a net loon index of +100 for soem of your recent
> > I think we need a new theory here. Everybody has a
Don't apologize he's probably a kook.
No seriously, so you are saying that the gett'om, with its moron
particles orbitting the kookeus is the basic godamic structure of the
usenetverse. I think you've got it!
>1 steel chamber
>1 newsgroup emitting kooks (very small)
>1 kook counter (Phil Deitiker bot)
>1 flask of hydrocyanic acid (small)
>1 cat (live)
If you really are going to perform the classical Schrödinger's Kook
experiment, I for one will eagerly be waiting for the publicized
I've never posted anything anywhere that supported the idea of
"In Situ Creationist", or anything close to it. What we have
there is another "creationist" expression by Philip Deitiker.
His only means of "winning" a debate is the "In Situ Creationist"
generation of a strawman that he can then find fault with.
He sure as Hell can't fight his way out of his paper bag
>> 5. Ape Theorist (MV, McGinn, Howard, Many others)
>> 6. Hyperdiffusionist (Inger, Eric, Larry, others)
>> and a long list.
>Including Philip himself, since he insists those Japanese
>taught Indians how to make spears that don't appear in
>Japan. Sorry, but I don't know what to call that except
>hyperdiffusionist. ESPECIALLY someone who thinks Clovis
>is in Alaska when his very post says otherwise!
>BTW, you have a net loon index of +100 for soem of your recent
All one has to do is mention "anthropology" and a flock of net
loons is bound to arrive.
Anyone who says anthropology is not culture centric *is* a loon,
virtually by definition.
you do of course realise that somewhere out there are sad idiotless
villages and bridges deserted by their resident trolls.
We have to start a Troll protection League NOW otherwise these
endangered species will die beneath the weight of the worlds
Churches spend millions perhaps even billions to protect the
uneducated by putting them in pulpits and congregations but even their
efforts are coming to naught as the insidious Internet spreads its
tentacles of rationality and science..
Send all your money to me and I'll try to get the idiots back to their
villages and the trolls back beneath their bridges...
you can trust me :-)
You are stringing us along.
> "Seppo Renfors" <Ren...@not.pollis.net.au> wrote in message
> : Philip Deitiker wrote:
> : >
> : > I think we need a new theory here. Everybody has a
> : > conspiracy theory and I have mine.
> : > Here it goes.
> : [..] ....and there went.
> : It was OFF TOPIC once again, and an attempt to pick another fight and
> : nothing else.
> I think Philip expressed the frustration a lot of us feel about the content
> of these newsgroups and did it with a lot more humor and spice than I could
I can't agree. The fact being he accuses another of what he is guilty
of himself - I see nothing funny in that. IF PD expresses any
"frustrations" he shouldn't, as he is often the cause of unnecessary
"kook posts". I don't necessarily mean the weirdo views put, but the
abuse engaged in without any redeeming features at all.
> A few months back I would read a posting in SAP and wonder what this person
> or that would say about the topic and regret that that particular person
> didn't post here anymore. Think of the non-kooks this group (and SA, too?)
> this group has lost. Now interesting topics are smothered by kook posts.
Each and everyone of us can be a "kook" and a "non-kook", as occasion
dictates. I wouldn't segregate people into groups. SOME people
certainly deserve the title "kook" but then it does take persistent
and consistent hard work at being a kook before it can truly apply. It
takes something extraordinary to earn such a title.
In a ng where the people doesn't change a lot, two things can happen.
They become comfortable with each other's views and tend to treat new
people harshly, if they don't "conform". The other is they form two
groups who are opposed and throw mud at each other - and there is
little cross over. A newcomer is then labelled to belong to one group
or the other. It is impossible to be independent.
But there is also a third type. They are relatively few, but it is
THEY who most often kill good threads. They are the people who's prime
purpose is to abuse others above all - it can be a "non-kook" old hand
who doesn't like their "comfort zone" being disturbed. It can be a
right low life who takes pleasure in destruction - in real life they
are the graffiti vandal, the person destroying public property etc....
However you describe them they are the instigators of abuse, and it is
like a fresh cow-pat to blow-flies, others come from all corners to
join in! Oddly enough it is the VICTIM who usually ends up being
blamed! The reason is simple - shame, the perpetrators cannot accept
they were attracted by the smell of the fresh cow-pat and participated
> Paleoanthropology seems to be exploding , folks, it's got to be like
> watching the first manned moon shot, and here we are in this mud puddle,
> shooting damp clods back and forth. Is this the best we can do?
Sadly enough it applies to most groups from time to time. Then people
move on to other groups or interests ......
SIR - Philosopher unauthorised
You are correct on this, I prefer the word "Fruitloop" as
its origins in the cereal industry are well-known. Other
words include loony-farm escapee, and of course the favorite
Netloon. We could have a nomenclature conferance and decide
on the best words to describe the 'phenomena'.
>Send all your money to me and I'll try to get the idiots back to their
>villages and the trolls back beneath their bridges...
>you can trust me :-)
Yes, but it does appear that a few, at least, have escaped
their sanctuaries and roam freely about the earth.
>>There is only one Kook in the universe, and what we think of as a lot
>>of Kooks is actually a slice through that Kook's path as it whizzes
>>backwards and forwards in time. That would certainly be an economical
>You are stringing us along.
Ah string theory, So Eric which dimension do Morons flow
from? [IOW turn around and look backwards]
Well, the whole process of "as soon as one [kook] is thrashed a new one
pops up or an old one flys out of the woodwork, it is almost like a
tennis ball server or some instrument is throwing them" could be
described _as_ a "fruit-loop."
Then all we need is some way to track how far around the fruit-loop we
are and we'll know what sort of looniness is heading our way next.
is this a cause or an effect of their circular reasoning.
If you don't like what they write- don't read it!
"Philip Deitiker" <Nopd...@att.net.spam> wrote in message
I want to collect funds for a Moron Accelerator. It seems to me that if
we can cause many Morons to collide at high speeds, Quirks will be
ejected, transmuting elemental Morons into a smaller number of Cluons.
John (missing a village) Wilkins
DARK IN HERE, ISN'T IT?
Philip's an idiot.
> What we have
> there is another "creationist" expression by Philip Deitiker.
> His only means of "winning" a debate is the "In Situ Creationist"
> generation of a strawman that he can then find fault with.
That, and numerous ad hominems. You'll notice, when I said there's
no Clovis in Alaska, even though his very cites said it, he
flamed me. Then he invented a new definition of 'proto-' to cover
He mainly made some very bad choice of words. Does 'evolve' mean
speciation or just a change in gene frequencies? Either way, he
loses: Under the former definition, humans evolved in Africa.
Under the latter, all populations are constantly evolving. So
the idea that Indians 'evolved in Asia' is a vacuous statement.
> He sure as Hell can't fight his way out of his paper bag
> with logic!
I know that. Say, did you know genetic distance has primates and
a few other orders of mammals only appearing in the Oligocene?
Problem is, the first tarsiers are in the Upper Cretaceous, found
in Europe and North America.
> >> 5. Ape Theorist (MV, McGinn, Howard, Many others)
> >> 6. Hyperdiffusionist (Inger, Eric, Larry, others)
> >> and a long list.
> >Including Philip himself, since he insists those Japanese
> >taught Indians how to make spears that don't appear in
> >Japan. Sorry, but I don't know what to call that except
> >hyperdiffusionist. ESPECIALLY someone who thinks Clovis
> >is in Alaska when his very post says otherwise!
> >BTW, you have a net loon index of +100 for soem of your recent
> All one has to do is mention "anthropology" and a flock of net
> loons is bound to arrive.
Well, duhh...What I meant is, Philip does. A net loon index of
+80 to +480 indicates that someone's delusional. At least in
long posts. In short replies, it's much stricter.
Philip himself taught it to me, so if he doesn't like it being
applied, he should avoid saying crazy things.
> Anyone who says anthropology is not culture centric *is* a loon,
> virtually by definition.
I'm reminded of Alice Fletcher. A liberal, Fletcher saw
assimilation as the only solution to the Indian problem. What did
it result in? A depression that some reservations still haven't
recovered from. She tried her best, but wasn't able to remove
herself from the Lewis Henry Morgan framework.
Cool, I like that one. We could have quarter fruit-loops, half fruit-loops and full
Then for those who really like to split hairs, eighth and sixteenth loops.
To make things really interesting maybe we could also have Illiamen loops (spelling on
this the WWI flyer who invented the half loop combined with a half roll)
The possiblilties are endless, inside fruit-loop vs outside fruit-loop
guess what... this is a "sci" group,...
> What you nerds call "kooks" are generally over-creative people trying to
> find a way to express their ideas.
... not a "creative expression" group,...
> This idea is so alien to you dusty old
... "old", is a realitive term. for all you know half of us may be "young"...
> that you spend an unbelievable amount of time, effort and emotion in
> trying to make these poor slobs feel unworthy,
... 1.) it doesnt take much time. 2.) i've never said they were unworthy, or
even that their creative ideas are unworthy. they are out of place however when
they are trying to present them as a "science" that lacks foundation.
> when in the end- you are
AMEN! i agree!! we are unworthy of people like ed, jabbers, et al.. and since we
are so unworthy and undeserving of their presence, they should punish us by
abandoning us poor unworthy souls in the sci groups.
> People like you owe your very existence to the so called "kooks"
> of the world.
you're right in one sense. "kooks" propogate too, my parents are avid
creationist. (they gave me a bible for x-mas last year, this year i'm giving
them "origin of species". <g>)
> If you don't like what they write- don't read it!
and you read this and responded because... you liked it, right? i mean, by your
own standards, if you didnt like what it said, you wouldnt have read it, and if
you didnt read it, you wouldnt have responded. but... how do you know if your
going to like or not it if you dont read it...? oh my, it is all so confusing.
thank you so much for setting me straight with this. so from now on, i can post
my views regardless of if they are flawed or not because i dont like anyone who
might post something in disagreement so i dont have to read it and i may
continue to be ignorant without conscience or guilt or most importantly,
accountability to varitability or fact.
i say 2+2=5. and no one can say anything to the contrair because you owe your
very existence to me making that statement. furthermore, because i dont like
anything anyone has to say against it i dont have to read it and can continue to
say 2+2=5 and be right. and of course i am right 'cause i've never read anything
that may contradict it.
wow. thats shallow.
Well, I hate to nit-pick, but according to the rigidly defined
of Nykosian Logic, that's a load of crap! And whatever happened to
the 'h' in Neanderthal?
As we all know, having carved the Sphinx, the Vikings moved to
Minnesota (airlifted by Abydos Helicopters), via Roswell, where
the Kensington Runestone was carved to boost the ailing tourist
industry in Area 51. Meanwhile, Grey Aliens, on advice from Yuri
Suchkinky, were infiltrating the area around what is now
and used native labour to build the Pyramids, which are obviously
not tombs, but gigantic....(cont. P.98)
PS Where has Peter gone? I miss him...
NB - 'Abuse' is "Seppo the Clown's" specialist subject....
... and one group floats to the top as 'pond scum', while the
dregs sink to the bottom and emit the odd bubble of methane....
> But there is also a third type. They are relatively few, but it
> THEY who most often kill good threads. They are the people who's
> purpose is to abuse others above all - it can be a "non-kook"
> who doesn't like their "comfort zone" being disturbed. It can be
> right low life who takes pleasure in destruction - in real life
> are the graffiti vandal, the person destroying public property
> However you describe them they are the instigators of abuse, and
> like a fresh cow-pat to blow-flies, others come from all corners
> join in! Oddly enough it is the VICTIM who usually ends up being
> blamed! The reason is simple - shame, the perpetrators cannot
> they were attracted by the smell of the fresh cow-pat and
> in it!
Oh Seppo! Who can you be talking about I wonder?
> > Paleoanthropology seems to be exploding , folks, it's got to
> > watching the first manned moon shot, and here we are in this
> > shooting damp clods back and forth. Is this the best we can
> Sadly enough it applies to most groups from time to time. Then
> move on to other groups or interests ......
Now Seppo is here, you'll be seeing so many damp clods fly, you'd
better get under cover. Alas, the great pool of knowledge tends to
turn into a puddle of mire and filth once he treads in it I'm
Please forgive him even so - he is directly descended from
Piltdown Man, but never inherited the ancestral charm.
Don't you mean "Clueless-ons"?
No, I meant Cluons. If each Moron has a semicortical quantity, then if
you ram two Morons together, and eliminate the repulsive Quirks, the
resulting particle has a complete cortical quantity, and so is
attractive to Clues, thus becoming a Cluon. It also attains Charm.
>Well, the whole process of "as soon as one [kook] is thrashed a new one
>pops up or an old one flys out of the woodwork, it is almost like a
>tennis ball server or some instrument is throwing them" could be
>described _as_ a "fruit-loop."
ROFL, good point.
That would be a fruit-loop loop.
>I want to collect funds for a Moron Accelerator. It seems to me that if
>we can cause many Morons to collide at high speeds, Quirks will be
>ejected, transmuting elemental Morons into a smaller number of Cluons.
ROFLMFA0. First off how would you charge the Morons and
second those are damn big particles for an accelerator.
Better Idea. We could build a railroad up some tall
mountain, like Everest. Then we could strap them to a
polemans car with several tons of rocket worthy explosives
and send them off in the direction of the sun. Then you
could watch what happens as they begin to enter the
coronasphere. This would save tremendous amounts of money
since you could use the suns gravity to accelerate them.
Alternatively with proper tradjectory you could use venus
and mercury to accelerate them even faster toward the sun.