Op zondag 24 oktober 2021 om 16:18:38 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:
> > > > > > Pterosaurs evolved a muscular wing–body junction providing multifaceted flight performance benefits:
> > > > > > Advanced aerodynamic smoothing, sophisticated wing root control, and wing force generation
> > > > > > Michael Pittman cs 2021 PNAS 118 (44) e2107631118 doi org/10.1073/pnas.2107631118
> > > > > > Experimental Analysis of Perching in the European Starling (Sturnus vulgaris: Passeriformes; Passeres),
> > > > > > and the Automatic Perching Mechanism of Birds
> > > > > > PM Galton & JD Shepherd 2012 doi org/10.1002/jez.1714
> > > > > > My little boy, I seriously tried to follow your thoughts, but it's impossible:
> > > > > > do you really have flying ancestors, my boy?
> > > > > Flight employs united forelimbs extended in tension during gliding,
> > > > > contracted in compression during flapping, unlike alternative limb brachiation. However all 3 perch(ed) in tension.
> > > > ??? If so, what has this to do with *hominoid* evolution??
> > > > Do you really believe your ancestors flied, DD??
> > > Hominoids share slow brachiation, upright bipedalism, tensional perching.
> > Of course slow vertical climbing & BPism: wading = aquarboreal.
> > That's why they lost the tail, got very broad thorax (Latisternalia) & pelvis (iliac flaring): later l movements of arms (also overhead) & legs.
Still no answer.
> > Tensional perching apes?? No evidence, my boy.
Id.
> > > > We have enough imbeciles here who believe their ancestors ran after kudus, but this is no less ridiculous.
> > > > > > The aquarboreal idea is simple:
> > > > > > Miocene hominoids frequently waded
> > > > > Irrelevant to topic.
> > Essential to hominoid evolution.
> > > > > Wading played no part in the loss of long boney tail in pterosaurs, avians
> > I have no idea, but if you want to believe that, go ahead.
> > Apes don't fly, my little boy.
> > > > > or anthropoids.
> > If you mean hominoids: aquarboreal - has 0 to do with perching.
No answer.
> > > > > upright for fruits/nuts in swamp forests:
> > > > Most likely, wading
> > > Irrelevant here.
> > Wading is essential to hominoid evolution.
No answer.
> > > > bipedally/vertically/upright (for fruits/nuts?) *caused* hominoid tail loss:
> > > > -it was of no use for equilibrium, support etc.: slow & vertical locomotion in forest swamps
> > > > (mangroves? I still don't know for sure),
> > > > -it caused heat loss,
> > > > -it was prone to infections, biting fishes, injuries etc.
> > > > Nasalis concolor is only infrequently wading, but has already a shortened tail.
> > > Please provide cites or photos of concolor wading.
> >
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2074675-meet-the-aquatic-monkey-with-a-love-of-diving-and-swimming/
> > "Meet the aquatic monkey with a love of diving and swimming"
> > Nasalis is only incipiently wading, and already has a shortened tail.
> > See also E.Morgan 1982 "The Aquatic Ape" Souvenir photo p.96.
Not seen these??
> > > Nasalis concolor (simkobu) langur monkey
> > simAkobu
> > > Social structure among families of two to five animals (mean = 3.5) was determined for groups living in the central (highland) primary rain forest.
> > > Simkobu evade human predation by minimizing conspicuous movements and vocalizations, by concealment in the canopy, or by rapid terrestrial flight when detected.
> > > The habitat of S. concolor includes hillsides in primary forests.
> > > This species is entirely arboreal and only comes down from the trees when it is disturbed.
> > Apparently not.
See different books of Elaine Morgan.
> > > No wading cited. I don't know if they use tendon locking. Sloths do and have short tails.
Yes, short, but not absent as in apes.
Very slow climbing?? But apes are fast or very fast.
> > You're obsessed by "tendon locking"; grow up, my boy.
No answer: sorry, DD, but I really don't see the relevance of tendon locking here.
> > Oligo?Miocene wading-climbing hominoids lost the tail, climbed arms overhead, got broad bodies (Latisternalia), centrally-placed spines etc.
> > Google our TREE paper "aquarboreal ancestors".
> Please provide cites or photos of concolor wading.
> Please provide cites or photos of concolor wading.
> Please provide cites or photos of concolor wading.
:-) You're right to repeat this, DD.
Cites or illustrations isn't difficult:
haven't you read Elaine's books??
e.g. see above, or "The aquatic ape hypothesis" p.64-66, 161-2.
Nasalis does wade, but infrequently apparently,
I have no idea: more so during warmer periods?? Ice Ages...
But its tail hasn't disappeared, only reduced - very unexpected for fast arboreal primates.
Hominoid tail loss can't be explained by aquarborealism, but easily by aquarborealism.
Miocene hominoids were strongly aquarboreal,
google e.g. "Aquarboreal Ancestors?".
I had proposed this bipedally-wading-climbing locomotion even before the wading gorillas-bonobos-orangs were discovered!
When the photos of wading gorilla appeared (c 1995 IIRC), I thought (naively - as usual): now they will soon accept AAT,
but nothing happened... they're still running after their kudus... the incredible idiots.