Nostrils on the top of the nose?

[JTEM is so reasonable]

https://youtu.be/A7rxabH3M-0

Jump to 3:00 and it looks like there is an
opening on the top of the nose!

Not saying there is one, only you get a
glimpse of something in the color photos
but it looks more distinct in the negative...

Just saying.

What actually struck me, while watching this
video, and nobody will ever consider much
less talk about: The idiocy!

Alright, here's the deal:

We all look different. We are all different from
each other. The races are different, within the
races there are ethnicities which set each other
apart and within those ethnicities there is a
great deal of variation. We all look different. But...

But...

BUT, pull a fossil out of the ground -- or a cave --
and there's no such thing as differences. Not
anymore. If THIS skull is discernible from THAT
skull, we're talking a different species, at the very
least, if not a different genus altogether...

And this video is a prime example.

What I would argue and by that I mean I have
argued, going back years ago, is that things
like "Race" and "Ethnicity" would have been
exaggerated in the past, not lessened. That, in
the days before roads & bridges -- cars or even
horses -- what seems like a very close proximity
to us today might've constituted a fool proof
barrier to interbreeding... a sure fire formula for
intrabreeding... They were all inbred!

(Google some of the family portraits of the
Habsburg, if you're wondering what I'm getting
at)

BUT NOT ACCORDING TO THE JOKE BEING PLAYED
ON SCIENCE, the paleo anthropology thing...

So my point is that we can and should expect
variation in fossils, particularly across vast areas,
but most conclusions are based on the opposite
assumption.

::Discuss::



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https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/701569038790377472

[littor...@gmail.com]

The human philtrum can only be explained IMO as the rudiment of nose-closing (not the very top, but underneath), as still can been in some extant humans (intra-species variation!), and archaic Homo was a lot more prognathic than most of us are, google "coastal dispersal Pleistocene Homo".


Op donderdag 24 november 2022 om 02:30:39 UTC+1 schreef JTEM is so reasonable:

[Primum Sapienti]

JTEM is so reasonless wrote:
>
> https://youtu.be/A7rxabH3M-0
>
> Jump to 3:00 and it looks like there is an
> opening on the top of the nose!

No, there isn't. The skull is encrusted with
calcite. In fact, that resulted in a projection
coming out of the top that looks like a horn.

From a link cited in the youtube page

https://www.academia.edu/5799166/The_significance_of_the_fossil_hominid_skull_from_Petralona_Greece

"The Skull was encased in a pink stalagmitic
matrix..."

> Not saying there is one, only you get a
> glimpse of something in the color photos
> but it looks more distinct in the negative...
>
> Just saying.

The wiki page has a nice image of the skull with
the calcite removed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petralona_Cave

[Primum Sapienti]

littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> The human philtrum can only be explained IMO as the rudiment of nose-closing (not the very top, but underneath), as still can been in some extant humans (intra-species variation!), and archaic Homo was a lot more prognathic than most of us are, google "coastal dispersal Pleistocene Homo".

You are, of course, wrong.

What "extant human" populations do this? Provide evidence.

MANY mammals have a philtrum.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philtrum

The philtrum (Latin: philtrum from Ancient Greek
φίλτρον phíltron, lit. "love charm"), or medial
cleft, is a vertical indentation in the middle
area of the upper lip, common to many mammals,
extending in humans from the nasal septum to the
tubercle of the upper lip. Together with a glandular
rhinarium and slit-like nostrils, it is believed to
constitute the primitive condition for at least
therian mammals."

In most mammals, the philtrum is a narrow groove
that may carry dissolved odorants from the rhinarium
or nose pad to the vomeronasal organ via ducts inside
the mouth.

For humans and most primates, the philtrum survives
only as a vestigial medial depression between the nose
and upper lip.

The human philtrum, bordered by ridges, also is known
as the infranasal depression, but has no apparent
function. That may be because most higher primates rely
more on vision than on smell. Strepsirrhine primates,
such as lemurs, still retain the philtrum and the
rhinarium, unlike monkeys and apes.


https://advetresearch.com/index.php/AVR/article/view/487/432

The philtrum is a median groove in the upper lip of
domestic animals (Nickelet al.,1979). It usually found
in animals that possessed a rhinarium or a nasalplane
(NP) such as carnivores and small ruminants (Nickelet
al., 1979; Evans and Christensen, 1979). The nasal plane
is a wet glabrous skin area, which covers the medial wings
of the nostrils (Nickelet al., 1979). The philtrum in such
species is deep and sometimes extends to the nostrils. On
the other hand, it’s shallow or absent in animals that
lack NP, a sequine (Nickelet al., 1979). This anatomical
association is also indicating functional correlations
between the philtrum and the NP (Hillenius and Rehorek,
2005). The philtrum proposed to drain the odoront molecules
that dissolved in the fluid covering the NP to reach the
incisive papillae and then into the nasopalatine ducts
(Wöhrmann-Repenning and Bergmann, 2001). While the
nasopalatine ducts or incisive ducts are the oro-nasal
passage of the vomeronasal duct system (VNO), the philtrum
thereby is considered the communication canal between the
NP and the VNO (Hillenius and Rehorek, 2005; Eshrah, 2019).

[JTEM is so reasonable]

Primum Sapienti wrote:

> No, there isn't. The skull is

Wow. You try to establish your dominance by putting on
display your appalling lack of reading comprehension...

: What actually struck me, while watching this

: video, and nobody will ever consider much

: less talk about [...]

To people who aren't crippled by their emotions, people who
are clear headed, people who are interested in discovery,
discussion and not just trolling online, you need to read what
comes AFTER the above before you flying off the handle in
some undeserved rage...




-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/703387388268953600

[JTEM is so reasonable]

Primum Sapienti wrote:

> What "extant human"

Fyi; Lee Berger described the Rising Star caves as "Wet."

Then again, he also claims that Naledi used fire extensively,
that there's unambiguous soot on the ceiling that everyone
missed until his one visit found it, that they built LOTS of
fires and the team literally dragged itself over spots where
some of these fires were lit, FOR YEARS, without anyone
noticing AND that Naledi navigated the caves dragging fire wood
and animals -- even antelope -- with them.




-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/703387388268953600

[Primum Sapienti]

Here that is:

https://youtu.be/A7rxabH3M-0

Jump to 3:00 and it looks like there is an
opening on the top of the nose!

Not saying there is one, only you get a
glimpse of something in the color photos
but it looks more distinct in the negative...

Just saying.

What actually struck me, while watching this
video, and nobody will ever consider much

Now the response illustrates how you failed to consider
the skull with the calcite REMOVED

[Primum Sapienti]

[JTEM is so reasonable]

Primum Sapienti wrote:


> > What actually struck me, while watching this
> > video, and nobody will ever consider much
> > less talk about: The idiocy!

What's the deal?

> > Alright, here's the deal:
> >
> > We all look different. We are all different from
> > each other. The races are different, within the
> > races there are ethnicities which set each other
> > apart and within those ethnicities there is a
> > great deal of variation. We all look different. But...

So are you autistic? Because I clearly spelled out what
struck me about the video, and you act like it's not even
there.

And you "Feel" this is a sort of argument?

You "Feel" that a lack of reading comprehension on your
part is... insight?

Is that it?

What other "Point" could you possibly believe yourself to
be making?





-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/705742582064496640

[littor...@gmail.com]

> > The human philtrum can only be explained IMO as the rudiment of nose-closing (not the very top, of course, as kudu runners think, but underneath), as still is the case in big-nosed humans (intra-species variation!), and archaic Homo was a lot more prognathic than most of us are, google "coastal dispersal Pleistocene Homo".

But imbecilic kudu runner sees no difference between split upper lip of most mammals & the philtrum as in humans:

> You are, of course, wrong.

:-DDD
Already caught you kudu, my little boy??
Have a good look a your dog.
And grow up!

[Primum Sapienti]

littor...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> The human philtrum can only be explained IMO as the rudiment of nose-closing (not the very top, of course, as kudu runners think, but underneath), as still is the case in big-nosed humans (intra-species variation!), and archaic Homo was a lot more prognathic than most of us are, google "coastal dispersal Pleistocene Homo".
>
> But imbecilic kudu runner sees no difference between split upper lip of most mammals & the philtrum as in humans:

Snorkel nose thinks the philtrum is to cover up the
nostrils...without *any* evidence.

Where is YOUR evidence, mv?

>> You are, of course, wrong.
>
> :-DDD
> Already caught you kudu, my little boy??
> Have a good look a your dog.
> And grow up!
>

Find those snorkel noses yet, child?

[littor...@gmail.com]

kudu runner:

> Where is YOUR evidence, mv?

Anatomy, my little boy.
Never heard of anatomy??

Amazing how stupid kudu runners can be...
They fantasize the most idiotic stories: furless & fat human ancestors sweating water + salt running under the hot Afr.sun.
:-DDD
How stupid can self-declared "scientists" be?? :-DDD

H.erectus as far as Java:
- shell engravings, google "Joordens Munro",
- stone tools = shellfish diet,
- brain x2 = seafood + DHA,
- pachyosteosclerosis = shallow+slow diving,
- island colonizations, e.g. Flores,
- etc.etc.


Amazing how stupid kudu runners can be...
Stupid stupid stupid imbeciles!
Runnng after kudus... :-DDD

[Primum Sapienti]

snorkel nose wrote:
> kudu runner:
>
>> Where is YOUR evidence, mv?
>
> Anatomy, my little boy.
> Never heard of anatomy??

Do you know what a snorkel is?

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/snorkel

Amazing how stupid snorkel nosers can be...
Stupid stupid stupid imbeciles!
Snorkel noses... :-DDD

Courtesy of Pandora:

Again, let's see what Hauser really said. The original paper
"Découverte d’un squelette du type du Neandertal sous l’abri inférieur
du Moustier" is available here:
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k5864483g/f16.image.r=hauser?rk=42918;4#

On page 6 it reads:
"le nez avait été protégé par deux morceaux de silex, dont l'un
appliqué sur le dos du nez et l'autre.sur sa base. La position de ce
dernier silex, qui est en forme de plaque, montre que les narines
n'étaient pas dirigées de haut en bas, mais d'arrière en avant, avec
une légère inclinaison de haut en bas."

(the nose had been protected by two pieces of flint, one of which is
applied to the back of the nose and the other on its base. The
position of this last flint, which is plate-shaped, shows that the
nostrils were not directed downwards, but forwards, with a slight tilt
downwards.)

In other words, Hauser did not infer the shape of the nose from an
original soft tissue impression, but indirectly from the position of
two pieces of flint.
That's a highly questionable approach to soft tissue reconstruction.
We don't even know if the flints were in their original position
around the profile of the nose. Fig. 5 in that paper does not all
justify any reconstruction of the nose on the basis of these flints
(labeled 1 and 2), or the suggestion that the nostrils were pointing
forward.

[Primum Sapienti]

Well? Where is your evidence that the philtrum is for
covering the nostrils? Why would it even be necessary,
given that many animals, including humans, can just hold
their breath?

[littor...@gmail.com]

Nostrils underneath our nose.

Petralona:
- huge frontal + paranasal air sinuses,
- very thick occipital bone:
these people frequently floated belly-up, e.g. opening shells?

Or did they need their large sinuses to run after kudus?? :-DDD
And did they need their heavy occipita to run after kudus???
Savanna believers are stupid stupid stupid.

They were prognathic + big noses:
they simply closed their nostrils with their upper lip
= function of our human philtrum.
Put your index + middle finger under your upper lip & try to inhale:
your upper lip (at least mine) perfectly closes your columella.

This function disappeared:
we no longer (>200 ka?) have to float to open shellfish...

Only incredible imbeciles believe we needed such a philtrum to run after kudus...
:-DDD

________

Op zondag 5 februari 2023 om 07:14:35 UTC+1 schreef Primum Sapienti:

[Primum Sapienti]

littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> Nostrils underneath our nose.
>
> Petralona:
> - huge frontal + paranasal air sinuses,
> - very thick occipital bone:
> these people frequently floated belly-up, e.g. opening shells?
>
> Or did they need their large sinuses to run after kudus?? :-DDD
> And did they need their heavy occipita to run after kudus???
> Savanna believers are stupid stupid stupid.
>
> They were prognathic + big noses:
> they simply closed their nostrils with their upper lip
> = function of our human philtrum.
> Put your index + middle finger under your upper lip & try to inhale:
> your upper lip (at least mine) perfectly closes your columella.
>
> This function disappeared:
> we no longer (>200 ka?) have to float to open shellfish...
>
> Only incredible imbeciles believe we needed such a philtrum to run after kudus...
> :-DDD

Only a complete idiot would think we need to cover the nose
when we can just HOLD OUR BREATH.

Even puppies can hold their breath.