Plate tectonics & Hominoid Evolution

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littor...@gmail.com

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Jul 29, 2022, 4:07:56 PMJul 29
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The scenario below is partly based on ideas of Francesca Mansfield, esp.the Zanclean Flood Hypothesis (6).

If the HP/G split occurred when Gorilla (afarensis etc.) followed the Rift formation (5), the remarkably parallel evolutions of P // G (e.g. KWing early-Pleist.) suggest Pan in SE.Africa (africanus etc.) might initially also have followed Rift fm (rather than the Ind.Ocean coasts)?
And when did the Red Sea begin? If it began with a Rift, the early hominids s.s.(4) might have followed Rift fm from the beginning?
In that case, a major difference between early-hominids-apiths-apes & Homo might than have that between Rift & *real* coastal (shallow-diving, early-Pleist.?) adaptations?

_____

Plate Tectonics:
1) India approaching Eurasia: fm of island archipels, full of coastal forests:
cercopithecoid/hominoid split:
catarrhines reaching these became vertical "bipedal" waders-climbers: Hominoidea:
larger size, vertical spine, complete ext.tail loss, sacralisation, very broad pelvis, thorax & sternum (Hominoidea=Latisternalia) etc.
for wading bipedally + climbing arms overhead.

2) India further under Eurasia = split great/lesser apes = W/E:
great apes colonized W-Tethys coastal forests.

3) Mesopotamian Seaway closure c 15 Ma = split hominids/pongids = W/E:
hominids colonized Med.Sea coastal forests.

4) Med.drying: only Red Sea hominids survived.

5) E.Afr.Rift fm c 8 Ma = split G/HP:
-Gorilla followed Rift -> Pliocene "gracile" afarensis -> early-Pleist."robust" boisei.

6) Zanclean Flood c 5 Ma: Red Sea opened into Ind.Ocean:
-Pan went right -> Pliocene "gracile" africanus -> early-Pleist."robust" robustus (P//G).
-Homo went left -> Ind.Ocean coasts.
Pongids forced hylobatids higher into the trees, and kept Homo at the coasts (tree-poor).

7) Ice Ages: cooling: more?different shellfish?
-early-Pleist.H.erectus Java etc. coastal diving for shellfish etc.
-mid-Pleist.H.neand. diving-wading seasonally along rivers,
-late-Pleist.H.sapiens: wading-walking.

CC Hn>Hs>>He>>apiths-apes (DHA)
POS He>>Hn>>Hs-apiths-apes (He salt water)
PNSs Hn>Hs>He (Hn more wading & surface-swimming)

Paul Crowley

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Jul 30, 2022, 10:51:25 AMJul 30
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On Friday 29 July 2022 at 21:07:56 UTC+1, littor...@gmail.com wrote:

> The scenario below is partly based on ideas of Francesca Mansfield, esp.the
> Zanclean Flood Hypothesis (6).
>
> If the HP/G split occurred when Gorilla (afarensis etc.) followed the Rift formation
> (5), the remarkably parallel evolutions of P // G (e.g. KWing early-Pleist.) suggest
> Pan in SE.Africa (africanus etc.) might initially also have followed Rift fm (rather
> than the Ind.Ocean coasts)?
> And when did the Red Sea begin? If it began with a Rift, the early hominids s.s.(4)
> might have followed Rift fm from the beginning?
> In that case, a major difference between early-hominids-apiths-apes & Homo
> might than have that between Rift & *real* coastal (shallow-diving, early-Pleist.?)
> adaptations?

A truly absurd line of thinking -- no more
than superstition. You might as well
'explain' evolution by reference to the
activities of the ancient Greek gods, or
to star signs, or whether or not Mars
was in retrograde more than usual.

Has ANYONE ever 'explained' the
evolution of any taxon as the 'result'
of geological changes? Occasionally
paths open (or close) and allow
migration (or shut it off) as in the
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_American_Interchange
But even this enormously important
event is not used to 'explain' the
evolution of any new mammalian,
reptile, or plant taxon.

littor...@gmail.com

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Jul 30, 2022, 11:00:37 AMJul 30
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Op zaterdag 30 juli 2022 om 16:51:25 UTC+2 schreef yelw...@gmail.com:
> On Friday 29 July 2022 at 21:07:56 UTC+1, littor...@gmail.com wrote:

> > The scenario below is partly based on ideas of Francesca Mansfield, esp.the
> > Zanclean Flood Hypothesis (6).
> > If the HP/G split occurred when Gorilla (afarensis etc.) followed the Rift formation
> > (5), the remarkably parallel evolutions of P // G (e.g. KWing early-Pleist.) suggest
> > Pan in SE.Africa (africanus etc.) might initially also have followed Rift fm (rather
> > than the Ind.Ocean coasts)?
> > And when did the Red Sea begin? If it began with a Rift, the early hominids s.s.(4)
> > might have followed Rift fm from the beginning?
> > In that case, a major difference between early-hominids-apiths-apes & Homo
> > might than have that between Rift & *real* coastal (shallow-diving, early-Pleist.?)
> > adaptations?

> A truly absurd line of thinking -- no more
> than superstition. You might as well
> 'explain' evolution by reference to the
> activities of the ancient Greek gods, or
> to star signs, or whether or not Mars
> was in retrograde more than usual.

This idiotic & empty answer confirms our view.
Thanks, my little boy!

I Envy JTEM

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Jul 30, 2022, 12:00:33 PMJul 30
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yelw...@gmail.com wrote:

> Has ANYONE ever 'explained' the
> evolution of any taxon as the 'result'
> of geological changes?

Yes. All the time. The Columbian Mammoth is one example you
must be familiar with...

"Isolation is the engine of evolution."

If you have an island and something, a bird maybe, can and does
easily cross between it and the mainland on a constant basis,
there is no isolated island population. The selective pressure will
be as much OR MORE on adapting to the mainland as the island.
But if the population can't readily move back & forth, if breeding
is restricted to island dwellers than they will adapt to the unique
conditions of THAT environment.

> But even this enormously important
> event is not used to 'explain' the
> evolution of any new mammalian,
> reptile, or plant taxon.

How many new ones have evolved in human history, witnessed
by humans? And I did say "Evolved" which does exclude the work
of humans...

Nothing other than micro evolutionary changes as ever been
observed by man. We can find evidence for changes, like in the
fossil record, but there is no record of any humans observing
such changes. We don't see them happening now.



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littor...@gmail.com

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Jul 31, 2022, 6:41:37 AMJul 31
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Op zaterdag 30 juli 2022 om 18:00:33 UTC+2 schreef I Envy JTEM:


> "Isolation is the engine of evolution."

:-)
Whose words are this?

In any case, it's correct, and very very striking in hominoid evolution IMO:
1) India approaching Eurasia = initially island-formation: isolates continental Cercopithecoidea (Old World) from island Hominoidea.
2) India further under Eurasia isolates great (W) from lesser apes (E): great apes colonize W-Tethys Ocean coastal forests.
3) Mesopotamian Seaway closure c 15 Ma isolates pongids (E) from hominids (W).
4) Messinian Salinity Crisis isolates Homo-Pan-Gorilla (Red Sea) from other hominids (Med.Sea)?
5) Initial Afr.Rift fm isolates Gorilla (->E.Afr.apiths) from Homo-Pan (still in Red Sea).
6) Zanclean Flood 5.3 Ma opens Red Sea into Ind.Ocean (Francesca Mansfield), isolating Homo (S-Asia) from Pan (E-Afr.coastal forests->S.Afr.apiths).

Only incredible imbeciles believe they descend from Lucy.

I Envy JTEM

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Jul 31, 2022, 5:15:26 PMJul 31
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littor...@gmail.com wrote:

> JTEM:

> > "Isolation is the engine of evolution."

> :-)
> Whose words are this?

I think they're your's!

> In any case, it's correct, and very very striking in hominoid evolution IMO:

It is how I describe (sum up) "Punctuated Equilibrium."

I subscribe to it but I don't. What I actually do is incorporate it into the
Waterside hypothesis. I would say it's what results in "Multi Regionalism"
or "Regional Continuity." They're both describing the same thing, really,
and neither are possible without Aquatic Ape/Waterside.

> 1) India approaching Eurasia = initially island-formation: isolates continental Cercopithecoidea (Old World) from island Hominoidea.
> 2) India further under Eurasia isolates great (W) from lesser apes (E): great apes colonize W-Tethys Ocean coastal forests.
> 3) Mesopotamian Seaway closure c 15 Ma isolates pongids (E) from hominids (W).
> 4) Messinian Salinity Crisis isolates Homo-Pan-Gorilla (Red Sea) from other hominids (Med.Sea)?
> 5) Initial Afr.Rift fm isolates Gorilla (->E.Afr.apiths) from Homo-Pan (still in Red Sea).
> 6) Zanclean Flood 5.3 Ma opens Red Sea into Ind.Ocean (Francesca Mansfield), isolating Homo (S-Asia) from Pan (E-Afr.coastal forests->S.Afr.apiths).
>
> Only incredible imbeciles believe they descend from Lucy.

I'm a lazy bastard, more of a "Pig Picture" guy. I just say things like "I think
apes originated outside of Africa." I leave the actual work to smarter people,
Doctors & such...




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https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/687406489040715776

Paul Crowley

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Aug 1, 2022, 8:10:06 AMAug 1
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On Sunday 31 July 2022 at 22:15:26 UTC+1, I Envy JTEM wrote:

"Isolation is the engine of evolution."

Goggle it -- it seems to be yours and yours
alone. It's truly remarkable that whenever
anyone says anything non-trivial, the use
of those words is, almost always, unique

And, in this case, it's true.

BUT Marc is NOT talking about isolation.
He looks at the phylogenetic tree of the
hominoid taxon, picks each branching
point, claims to link it to some major
geological event (or maybe even to
some climate change) and declares that
on the branching event, one population
moved north and the other south, or
maybe one went west and the other
east. And, of course, applies it ONLY to
the hominoid/hominid taxon.

This has NOTHING to do with sensible
evolutionary theory. It's childish in the
extreme. No one would ever think of
applying such a scheme to any other
animal or plant taxon.

Why does the topic of human evolution
so readily generate idiocy?

littor...@gmail.com

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Aug 1, 2022, 8:26:18 AMAug 1
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Op zondag 31 juli 2022 om 23:15:26 UTC+2 schreef I Envy JTEM:

> > > "Isolation is the engine of evolution."

> > :-) Whose words are this?

> I think they're your's!

If it is, I don't remember... (but I'm becoming old).
In any case, isolation causes

> > In any case, it's correct, and very very striking in hominoid evolution IMO:

> It is how I describe (sum up) "Punctuated Equilibrium."
> I subscribe to it but I don't. What I actually do is incorporate it into the
> Waterside hypothesis. I would say it's what results in "Multi Regionalism"
> or "Regional Continuity." They're both describing the same thing, really,
> and neither are possible without Aquatic Ape/Waterside.

> > 1) India approaching Eurasia = initially island-formation: isolates continental Cercopithecoidea (Old World) from island Hominoidea.
> > 2) India further under Eurasia isolates great (W) from lesser apes (E): great apes colonize W-Tethys Ocean coastal forests.
> > 3) Mesopotamian Seaway closure c 15 Ma isolates pongids (E) from hominids (W).
> > 4) Messinian Salinity Crisis isolates Homo-Pan-Gorilla (Red Sea) from other hominids (Med.Sea)?
> > 5) Initial Afr.Rift fm isolates Gorilla (->E.Afr.apiths) from Homo-Pan (still in Red Sea).
> > 6) Zanclean Flood 5.3 Ma opens Red Sea into Ind.Ocean (Francesca Mansfield), isolating Homo (S-Asia) from Pan (E-Afr.coastal forests->S.Afr.apiths).
> > Only incredible imbeciles believe they descend from Lucy.

> I'm a lazy bastard, more of a "Pig Picture" guy. I just say things like "I think
> apes originated outside of Africa." I leave the actual work to smarter people,
> Doctors & such...

:-)

I'm not alone in presenting the above scenario (Francesca Mansfield), and it's very (bio)logical:
it explains why & where Hominoidea became aquarboreal, and why & where they split.
One thing I still want to know: why did Homo evolve (probably early-Pleistocene) from aquarboreal to shallow-diving?
more or different shellfish? connection with ice ages? cooling?

littor...@gmail.com

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Aug 1, 2022, 8:27:27 AMAug 1
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Somebody:

> Why does the topic of human evolution
> so readily generate idiocy?

Yes, why do these idiots keep running after antelopes??
:-DDD

DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves

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Aug 1, 2022, 2:34:14 PMAug 1
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On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 8:10:06 AM UTC-4, yelw...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday 31 July 2022 at 22:15:26 UTC+1, I Envy JTEM wrote:
>
> "Isolation is the engine of evolution."


Isolation is the engine of extinction.

DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves

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Aug 1, 2022, 2:37:54 PMAug 1
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Mermaids!

littor...@gmail.com

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Aug 1, 2022, 4:11:32 PMAug 1
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Op maandag 1 augustus 2022 om 14:26:18 UTC+2 schreef littor...@gmail.com:


> > > > "Isolation is the engine of evolution."

> > > :-) Whose words are this?

> > I think they're your's!

> If it is, I don't remember... (but I'm becoming old).

"Isolation" here means "separation from each other", of course,
IOW, geological separation causes splitting = obvious (except for kudu runners):

1) India approaching Eurasia = initially island-formation: separated continental Cercopithecoidea (Old World) from island Hominoidea.
2) India further under Eurasia separated great (W) from lesser apes (E): great apes colonized W-Tethys Ocean coastal forests.
3) Mesopotamian Seaway closure c 15 Ma separated pongids (E) from hominids (W).
4) Messinian Salinity Crisis separated Homo-Pan-Gorilla (Red Sea) from other hominids (Med.Sea)?
5) Initial Afr.Rift fm separated Gorilla (->E.Afr.apiths) from Homo-Pan (still along Red Sea).
6) Zanclean Flood 5.3 Ma opened the Red Sea into the Ind.Ocean (Francesca Mansfield), separating Homo (S-Asia) from Pan (E-Afr.coastal forests->S.Afr.apiths).

I'm not alone in presenting this scenario (Francesca Mansfield), and it's very (bio)logical:
it explains why & where Hominoidea became aquarboreal, and why & where they split.


I still want to know: why did Homo evolve (probably early-Pleistocene) from aquarboreal to shallow-diving?
more or different shellfish? ice ages?

I Envy JTEM

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Aug 1, 2022, 6:22:07 PMAug 1
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yelw...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Sunday 31 July 2022 at 22:15:26 UTC+1, I Envy JTEM wrote:
>
> "Isolation is the engine of evolution."
> Goggle it -- it seems to be yours and yours
> alone. It's truly remarkable that whenever
> anyone says anything non-trivial, the use
> of those words is, almost always, unique

Doing the customary 30-second Google search, the oldest I
found was 2005:

https://groups.google.com/g/talk.origins/c/VhlELa_vm0s/m/rJ1UKDgAg9IJ

Of course Google SUCKS so it probably missed others...

> BUT Marc is NOT talking about isolation.
> He looks at the phylogenetic tree of the
> hominoid taxon, picks each branching
> point, claims to link it to some major
> geological event (or maybe even to
> some climate change) and declares that
> on the branching event, one population
> moved north and the other south, or
> maybe one went west and the other
> east. And, of course, applies it ONLY to
> the hominoid/hominid taxon.

Wolpoff invented Multi Regionalism and he was always like,
"If you want to argue Regional Continuity, fine." it was all six
of one, half dozen of the other to him...

I see pretty much all of this the same way.

Isolation requires mechanisms. Yes you can get the Founder
Effect where as little as a single individual, a pregnant
individual, washes ashore an island and, BAM, you have an
isolated population. It's probably far more often related to
catastrophic events, like major volcanic eruptions, and even
things like plate tectonics.

TEXT BOOK EXAMPLE: Cretaceous era dinosaurs of South
America. They look like Jurassic era dinosaurs. And they kind
of were. Cut off, evolving in isolation, safe from migrations
from Asia, they were Jurassic era dinosaurs allowed to remain
and evolve.

> This has NOTHING to do with sensible
> evolutionary theory.

It's a matter of degrees.

Everything fits together. Wolpoff's Multi Regionalism required
an engine, something that moved populations across the globe
then left them there, isolated. The glacial/interglacial cycle does
this, together with natural catastrophes. Ice grows, sea levels
drop and massive highways open up between the lands: The
beaches! The planet warms, the oceans rise and movement is
now difficult at best. Populations are effectively isolated.

This rising & falling would also be a natural pump of sorts, pushing
groups or whole populations inland where they would adapt to
their new environments...

Everything falls into place. It all makes sense. It all matches Aquatic
Ape.





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DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves

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Aug 1, 2022, 8:37:12 PMAug 1
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GIGO.
Extinction results from isolation.

I Envy JTEM

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Aug 1, 2022, 8:42:58 PMAug 1
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DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:

> GIGO.

Explain it? What does "GIGO" mean? What do the letters stand for?
What precisely maps to each of those letters?

A narcissistic personality disorder will flee from this challenge. They'd
probably engage in some shit posting, try to distract or end any
discourse.

Court. Ball. Your's.






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I Envy JTEM

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Aug 2, 2022, 1:37:47 AMAug 2
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littor...@gmail.com wrote:

> JTEM:
> > > > "Isolation is the engine of evolution."
>
> > > :-) Whose words are this?
>
> > I think they're your's!

> If it is, I don't remember... (but I'm becoming old).

I mean, nothing I'm saying is original to me. I'm taking what you
say and marrying it to what others are saying.

Wolpoff and his Multi Regionalism, but he needed interbreeding.

Eric Trinkaus established that interbreeding as fact, even before
the Neanderthal data was released. But they still needed a way
to drop these people in far flung parts of the world, only to bring
them together again, and that's your Aquatic Ape.

We had all these different groups, these distinct populations but
they were all related, they all shared DNA. And it was Aquatic
Ape that did so.

You need a wire to get electricity to a lamp. You needed the Aquatic
Ape population to get DNA everywhere from Oceania, through Asia,
into Europe and down into southern Africa.

The Aquatic Ape population is the conduit through which humanity
ran. It was the mother population, the one all others split from to
form Neanderthals, Denisovans and any others we probably missed.
The aquatic ape population is what fused humanity into single
species.

As someone of European descent I have ancestors that certain
sub Saharan African can't have. And they have ancestors which I
can't have. But we are both related through our Aquatic Ape
ancestors.




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I Envy JTEM

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Aug 2, 2022, 2:02:49 AMAug 2
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littor...@gmail.com wrote:

> "Isolation" here means "separation from each other", of course,
> IOW, geological separation causes splitting = obvious (except for kudu runners):

"Isolation" is in terms of barriers. A barrier could be time, for example. If it takes
a year to walk to another village, I'm far too lazy to even contemplate it.

A barrier could be a mountain, swamp, desert or some other impassable landscape.

A barrier might be a danger, perceived or real. Wild animals, evil spirits, dragons,
head hunters.

Today, economics is an extremely common barrier. Think of all the places you
might've gone, and still might go, if money were no object.

Culture is also a barrier. As a white male of Christian origins, there's lots of
places in this world where interbreeding would be dangerous, even if I could
manage to travel there.

Culture would encompassing language & custom, and we have to assume that
even archaics had both.

Gender is a barrier! Become a prisoner and a female is acceptable for breeding
but a male probably wasn't. He was probably killed, maybe enslaved but for a
woman of the culture to breed with him would likely be taboo. Lots of exceptions
to this can be found, which only proves that such dynamics did exist else what
would they be an exception to?

"The exception that proves the rule."

Economics, the desire for wealth probably destroyed most barriers by historic
times. Cross that sea and you no longer had to pay Arab middle men for your
silk, spices & incense. Wars were fought to add wealth & power to kings, and
to eliminate a potential danger.

By historic times, barriers started being wealth builders. Or at least in many
cases. The fewer people who could surmount the barriers the more profit
in your doing so: Exclusivity!

I guess some people can't see any further than the present. We can fly across
the ocean in a matter of hours. We have roads & bridges that allow us to
cross the land remarkably easy. They can't fathom a world were even forest
paths don't exist, where a game trail might be the best you can do. And a
river might take days of travel to find a place to ford...






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littor...@gmail.com

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Aug 6, 2022, 10:14:41 AMAug 6
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Op dinsdag 2 augustus 2022 om 07:37:47 UTC+2 schreef I Envy JTEM:
"Aq.ape" is a confusing term IMO: I see 2 quite different meanings:
1) "aquarboreal apes", possibly (rather unexpectedly to me) separated by geological processes:
-- India approaching Eurasia: fm of islands full of swamp forests (mangroves?) = cercopith/hominoid split?
-- Indian further underneath Eurasia split great (W) & lesser apes (E):
-- great apes colonized the W-Tethys coastal forests after c 20 Ma,
-- the Mesopotamian Seaway closure c 15 Ma split sivapiths-pongids (E) & dryopiths-hominids (W),
-- the sivapiths-pongids along the Ind.Ocean forced the hylobatids higher into the trees>brachiating?
-- the Messinian Salinity Crisis (MSC) isolates Homo-Pan-Gorilla (Red Sea) from the other hominids (Med.Sea), that died out?
-- the initial Afr.Rift fm isolates Gorilla (->E.Afr.apiths) from Homo-Pan (still in the Red Sea).?
-- the Zanclean Flood 5.3 Ma opens Red Sea into Ind.Ocean (Francesca Mansfield): Homo went left (S-Asia), Pan went right (E-Afr.coastal forests->S.Afr.apiths),
-- sivapiths-pongids forced Homo along the S.Asian coasts to become shallow-divers??
2) "littoral Homo" (shellfish) evolved much larger brains (DHA etc.), pachyosteosclerosis (slow+shallow diving), coastal dispersal (incl. back to the W) + island colonizations, stone tools etc.:
I wouldn't call these "aq.ape", but "littoral Homo",
they always followed the coasts, rivers etc., of course interbreeding, but only with other Homo.

DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves

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Aug 6, 2022, 4:39:43 PMAug 6
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On Friday, July 29, 2022 at 4:07:56 PM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> The scenario below is partly based on ideas of Francesca Mansfield, esp.the Zanclean Flood Hypothesis (6).
>
> If the HP/G split occurred when Gorilla (afarensis etc.) followed the Rift formation (5), the remarkably parallel evolutions of P // G (e.g. KWing early-Pleist.) suggest Pan in SE.Africa (africanus etc.) might initially also have followed Rift fm (rather than the Ind.Ocean coasts)?
> And when did the Red Sea begin? If it began with a Rift, the early hominids s.s.(4) might have followed Rift fm from the beginning?
> In that case, a major difference between early-hominids-apiths-apes & Homo might than have that between Rift & *real* coastal (shallow-diving, early-Pleist.?) adaptations?
>
> _____
>
> Plate Tectonics:
> 1) India approaching Eurasia: fm of island archipels, full of coastal forests:
> cercopithecoid/hominoid split:
> catarrhines reaching these became vertical "bipedal" waders-climbers: Hominoidea:
> larger size, vertical spine, complete ext.tail loss, sacralisation, very broad pelvis, thorax & sternum (Hominoidea=Latisternalia) etc.
> for wading bipedally + climbing arms overhead.
>
> 2) India further under Eurasia = split great/lesser apes = W/E:
> great apes colonized W-Tethys coastal forests.
>
> 3) Mesopotamian Seaway closure c 15 Ma = split hominids/pongids = W/E:
> hominids colonized Med.Sea coastal forests.
>
> 4) Med.drying: only Red Sea hominids survived.

Correction: Black Sea region was a refuge during the MSC, only a slight loss of water, but the Med. Sea and the Red Sea were nearly dried up with only a few hypersaline lakes watered by deep-cutting rivers.

Black Sea refuge during & after MSC
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0264817215001154

Red Sea
There is an opinion that during the Messinian, the Red Sea was connected at Suez to the Mediterranean, but was not connected with the Indian Ocean, and dried out along with the Mediterranean.[56] wikipedia

littor...@gmail.com

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Aug 7, 2022, 5:35:04 AMAug 7
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Op zaterdag 6 augustus 2022 om 22:39:43 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:


> > The scenario below is partly based on ideas of Francesca Mansfield, esp.the Zanclean Flood Hypothesis (6).

See her (no doubt very interesting) WHAT-talk this noon!
https://whattalks.com/talks

> > If the HP/G split occurred when Gorilla (afarensis etc.) followed the Rift formation (5), the remarkably parallel evolutions of P // G (e.g. KWing early-Pleist.) suggest Pan in SE.Africa (africanus etc.) might initially also have followed Rift fm (rather than the Ind.Ocean coasts)?
> > And when did the Red Sea begin? If it began with a Rift, the early hominids s.s.(4) might have followed Rift fm from the beginning?
> > In that case, a major difference between early-hominids-apiths-apes & Homo might than have that between Rift & *real* coastal (shallow-diving, early-Pleist.?) adaptations?

> > Plate Tectonics:
> > 1) India approaching Eurasia: fm of island archipels, full of coastal forests:
> > cercopithecoid/hominoid split:
> > catarrhines reaching these became vertical "bipedal" waders-climbers: Hominoidea:
> > larger size, vertical spine, complete ext.tail loss, sacralisation, very broad pelvis, thorax & sternum (Hominoidea=Latisternalia) etc.
> > for wading bipedally + climbing arms overhead.
> > 2) India further under Eurasia = split great/lesser apes = W/E:
> > great apes colonized W-Tethys coastal forests.
> > 3) Mesopotamian Seaway closure c 15 Ma = split hominids/pongids = W/E:
> > hominids colonized Med.Sea coastal forests.
> > 4) Med.drying: only Red Sea hominids survived.

> Correction: Black Sea region was a refuge during the MSC, only a slight loss of water, but the Med. Sea and the Red Sea were nearly dried up with only a few hypersaline lakes watered by deep-cutting rivers.
> Black Sea refuge during & after MSC
> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0264817215001154
> Red Sea
> There is an opinion that during the Messinian, the Red Sea was connected at Suez to the Mediterranean, but was not connected with the Indian Ocean, and dried out along with the Mediterranean.[56] wikipedia

Thanks!
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