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The demise of the giant ape Gigantopithecus blacki
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Primum Sapienti
Jan 21, 2024, 10:45:51 PMJan 21
to
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06900-0.pdf
10 January 2024
Abstract
The largest ever primate and one of the largest of
the southeast Asian megafauna, Gigantopithecus
blacki1, persisted in China from about 2.0 million
years until the late middle Pleistocene when it
became extinct2,3,4. Its demise is enigmatic
considering that it was one of the few Asian great
apes to go extinct in the last 2.6 million years,
whereas others, including orangutan, survived
until the present5. The cause of the disappearance
of G. blacki remains unresolved but could shed
light on primate resilience and the fate of
megafauna in this region6. Here we applied three
multidisciplinary analyses—timing, past
environments and behaviour—to 22 caves in southern
China. We used 157 radiometric ages from six dating
techniques to establish a timeline for the demise
of G. blacki. We show that from 2.3 million years
ago the environment was a mosaic of forests and
grasses, providing ideal conditions for thriving
G. blacki populations. However, just before and
during the extinction window between 295,000 and
215,000 years ago there was enhanced environmental
variability from increased seasonality, which
caused changes in plant communities and an increase
in open forest environments. Although its close
relative Pongo weidenreichi managed to adapt its
dietary preferences and behaviour to this
variability, G. blacki showed signs of chronic
stress and dwindling populations. Ultimately its
struggle to adapt led to the extinction of the
greatest primate to ever inhabit the Earth.
JTEM is so reasonable
Jan 23, 2024, 3:41:48 PMJan 23
to
It's not science. It's propaganda.
The "Cite" is literally saying nothing. "Gee, they're dead and
we don't know why."
Read your own cite. It went extinct between 200 and 300
thousand years ago, but the current ice age with this
glacial/interglacial cycle began significantly earlier. So
if Kwimate Cha-Ching ("Hand me another research grant!")
killed them off, why not hundreds of thousands of years
earlier?
The 2.6 million year span they mention? That is the
conventional start of this Quaternary Period: 2.6
million years ago.
But it's literally not telling you anything: "We don't know
why it went extinct, KWIMATE CHA-CHING!"
Here:
https://www.pnas.org/doi/abs/10.1073/pnas.93.7.3016
One had tools and smarts. The other went extinct.
-- --
https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/738875614392680448
Marc Verhaegen
Jan 23, 2024, 7:04:36 PMJan 23
to
Op dinsdag 23 januari 2024 om 21:41:48 UTC+1 schreef JTEM is so reasonable:
> It's not science. It's propaganda.
> The "Cite" is literally saying nothing. "Gee, they're dead and
> we don't know why."
> Read your own cite. It went extinct between 200 and 300
> thousand years ago, but the current ice age with this
> glacial/interglacial cycle began significantly earlier. So
> if Kwimate Cha-Ching ("Hand me another research grant!")
> killed them off, why not hundreds of 1000s of years earlier?
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06900-0.pdf
"The cause of the disappearance of G.blacki remains unresolved".
But I wonder: was Gi.blacki cf.very large size still aquarboreal?
semi-aquatic? swimming? diving?? diet of aquatic plants??
> It's not science. It's propaganda.
> The "Cite" is literally saying nothing. "Gee, they're dead and
> we don't know why."
> Read your own cite. It went extinct between 200 and 300
> thousand years ago, but the current ice age with this
> glacial/interglacial cycle began significantly earlier. So
> if Kwimate Cha-Ching ("Hand me another research grant!")
> The 2.6 million year span they mention? That is the
> conventional start of this Quaternary Period: 2.6 Ma.
> But it's literally not telling you anything: "We don't know
> why it went extinct, KWIMATE CHA-CHING!"
> Here: https://www.pnas.org/doi/abs/10.1073/pnas.93.7.3016
> One had tools and smarts. The other went extinct.
Yes, they say it themselves:
> why it went extinct, KWIMATE CHA-CHING!"
> Here: https://www.pnas.org/doi/abs/10.1073/pnas.93.7.3016
> One had tools and smarts. The other went extinct.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06900-0.pdf
"The cause of the disappearance of G.blacki remains unresolved".
But I wonder: was Gi.blacki cf.very large size still aquarboreal?
semi-aquatic? swimming? diving?? diet of aquatic plants??
Primum Sapienti
Jan 26, 2024, 12:54:49 AMJan 26
to
Marc Verhaegen wrote:
> Op dinsdag 23 januari 2024 om 21:41:48 UTC+1 schreef JTEM is so reasonable:
>
>> It's not science. It's propaganda.
>> The "Cite" is literally saying nothing. "Gee, they're dead and
>> we don't know why."
>> Read your own cite. It went extinct between 200 and 300
>> thousand years ago, but the current ice age with this
>> glacial/interglacial cycle began significantly earlier. So
>> if Kwimate Cha-Ching ("Hand me another research grant!")
>> killed them off, why not hundreds of 1000s of years earlier?
>> The 2.6 million year span they mention? That is the
>> conventional start of this Quaternary Period: 2.6 Ma.
>> But it's literally not telling you anything: "We don't know
>> why it went extinct, KWIMATE CHA-CHING!"
>> Here: https://www.pnas.org/doi/abs/10.1073/pnas.93.7.3016
>> One had tools and smarts. The other went extinct.
>
> Yes, they say it themselves:
> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06900-0.pdf
> "The cause of the disappearance of G.blacki remains unresolved".
> Op dinsdag 23 januari 2024 om 21:41:48 UTC+1 schreef JTEM is so reasonable:
>
>> It's not science. It's propaganda.
>> The "Cite" is literally saying nothing. "Gee, they're dead and
>> we don't know why."
>> Read your own cite. It went extinct between 200 and 300
>> thousand years ago, but the current ice age with this
>> glacial/interglacial cycle began significantly earlier. So
>> if Kwimate Cha-Ching ("Hand me another research grant!")
>> killed them off, why not hundreds of 1000s of years earlier?
>> The 2.6 million year span they mention? That is the
>> conventional start of this Quaternary Period: 2.6 Ma.
>> But it's literally not telling you anything: "We don't know
>> why it went extinct, KWIMATE CHA-CHING!"
>> Here: https://www.pnas.org/doi/abs/10.1073/pnas.93.7.3016
>> One had tools and smarts. The other went extinct.
>
> Yes, they say it themselves:
> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06900-0.pdf
How nice that they presented detailed analysis of
conditions during which G. lived.
". We used 157 radiometric ages from six dating
techniques to establish a timeline for the demise
of G. blacki. We show that from 2.3 million years
ago the environment was a mosaic of forests and
grasses, providing ideal conditions for thriving
G. blacki populations. However, just before and
during the extinction window between 295,000 and
215,000 years ago there was enhanced environmental
variability from increased seasonality, which
caused changes in plant communities and an increase
in open forest environments."
G. blacki population as the number of G. blacki
caves and teeth reduced (Fig. 3c), indicating a
dwindling population. The stark change in the
teeth banding of G. blacki indicates chronic stress
in the population (Fig. 2d(iv)–(v)) and changes
from its preferred dietary behaviour (Fig. 2c and
Extended Data Fig. 10f,g) indicate that G. blacki
was struggling to respond to the environmental
changes on a potentially shrinking territory20.
It would seem that its forest refugia changed its
structure and became too open and disturbed for
this species to sustain itself."
A nicely laid out case.
Can you or your film school acolyte tell us precisely
why and how other species died out? Say, Brontops?
Cynognathus? No?
Perhaps you are jealous at the depth and extent
of their analysis. All you have is snorkel noses...
JTEM is so reasonable
Jan 26, 2024, 11:58:16 PMJan 26
to
Primum Sapienti wrote:
> How nice that they presented detailed analysis of
> conditions during which G. lived.
But they didn't. Are you honestly THAT dense? Here.
> How nice that they presented detailed analysis of
> conditions during which G. lived.
It's above your reading level but give it a try:
https://www.ncei.noaa.gov/sites/default/files/2021-11/1%20Glacial-Interglacial%20Cycles-Final-OCT%202021.pdf
And you think that the climate was stable until
roughly 300k years ago? Because... why?
You have literally set aside absolutely everything you
know about the climate, the Quaternary Period,
the evolution of the genus Homo just so that you can
lap your greedy tongue at the ass crack of the media.
Wow. Dd you get tenure? Is that it? Because it sure
looks like you did!
And here you go, again:
https://www.pnas.org/doi/abs/10.1073/pnas.93.7.3016
There. Absolutely ZERO explanation missing.
-- --
https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/740591652167663616
Marc Verhaegen
Jan 27, 2024, 7:16:10 AMJan 27
to
Op zaterdag 27 januari 2024 om 05:58:16 UTC+1 schreef JTEM is so reasonable:
some netloon:
We're losing our time with these empty netloons, JTEM
Anthropology without waterside adaptations = geology without plate tectonics.
some netloon:
Anthropology without waterside adaptations = geology without plate tectonics.
JTEM is so reasonable
Jan 27, 2024, 3:30:54 PMJan 27
to
Marc Verhaegen wrote:
> We're losing our time with these empty netloons, JTEM
Sometimes I have this dream where the idiots defending
> We're losing our time with these empty netloons, JTEM
the status quo aren't serious. They realize that the good
Doctor has valid points. Maybe they just disagree with you
on the details and NOT on the overall point of Aquatic Ape.
But they can't admit it, not without jeopardizing publication,
grants and of course academic status.
Let's face it: Aquatic Ape is right. We're just arguing over
the nitty gritty... the details.
-- --
https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/740429495655432192
Marc Verhaegen
Jan 27, 2024, 5:47:43 PMJan 27
to
Op zaterdag 27 januari 2024 om 21:30:54 UTC+1 schreef JTEM is so reasonable:
> > We're losing our time with these empty netloons, JTEM
> Sometimes I have this dream where the idiots defending
> the status quo aren't serious. They realize that the good
> Doctor has valid points. Maybe they just disagree with you
> on the details and NOT on the overall point of Aquatic Ape.
> But they can't admit it, not without jeopardizing publication,
> grants and of course academic status.
> Let's face it: Aquatic Ape is right. We're just arguing over
> the nitty gritty... the details.
Yes, but the details are often most interesting... :-)
Why do hylobatids have unexpectedly long gestation?
Why do we have a philtrum in our upper lip?
Etc.etc.
> > We're losing our time with these empty netloons, JTEM
> Sometimes I have this dream where the idiots defending
> the status quo aren't serious. They realize that the good
> Doctor has valid points. Maybe they just disagree with you
> on the details and NOT on the overall point of Aquatic Ape.
> But they can't admit it, not without jeopardizing publication,
> grants and of course academic status.
> Let's face it: Aquatic Ape is right. We're just arguing over
> the nitty gritty... the details.
Why do hylobatids have unexpectedly long gestation?
Why do we have a philtrum in our upper lip?
Etc.etc.
Primum Sapienti
Feb 5, 2024, 12:22:52 AMFeb 5
to
space aliens and Nostra-dumbass and creationism
Go back to film school.
Primum Sapienti
Feb 5, 2024, 12:34:36 AMFeb 5
to
JTEM is so reasonable wrote:
> Primum Sapienti wrote:
>
>> How nice that they presented detailed analysis of
>> conditions during which G. lived.
>
> But they didn't. Are you honestly THAT dense? Here.
Yes, they did.
>
>> How nice that they presented detailed analysis of
>> conditions during which G. lived.
>
> But they didn't. Are you honestly THAT dense? Here.
> It's above your reading level but give it a try:
>
> https://www.ncei.noaa.gov/sites/default/files/2021-11/1%20Glacial-Interglacial%20Cycles-Final-OCT%202021.pdf
>
> And you think that the climate was stable until
> roughly 300k years ago? Because... why?
> You have literally set aside absolutely everything you
> know about the climate, the Quaternary Period,
> the evolution of the genus Homo just so that you can
> lap your greedy tongue at the ass crack of the media.
>
> Wow. Dd you get tenure? Is that it? Because it sure
> looks like you did!
>
> And here you go, again:
>
> https://www.pnas.org/doi/abs/10.1073/pnas.93.7.3016
>
> There. Absolutely ZERO explanation missing.
Did you bother to read your own link?
"...Homo and Gigantopithecus co-occur at Tham Khuyen
about a half million years ago."
Now, from the other paper's abstract:
"... just before and during the extinction window
between 295,000 and 215,000 years ago there was
enhanced environmental variability..."
You do understand that half a million years ago is
OLDER than 295kya to 215kya?
Johnny Johnny Johnny - what ARE we going to do with you?
Primum Sapienti
Feb 5, 2024, 12:37:08 AMFeb 5
to
Marc Verhaegen
Feb 5, 2024, 2:18:28 PMFeb 5
to
Ape+human evolution & speech origins,
modern insights:
google
- David Attenborough Marc Verhaegen
- Gondwanatalks Verhaegen
- aquarboreal
- seafood, diving, song & speech
- Mario Vaneechoutte cs 2024 Nature Anthropology 2,10007 “Have we been barking up the wrong ancestral tree? Australopithecines are probably not our ancestors” open access https://www.sciepublish.com/article/pii/94
modern insights:
- David Attenborough Marc Verhaegen
- Gondwanatalks Verhaegen
- aquarboreal
- seafood, diving, song & speech
- Mario Vaneechoutte cs 2024 Nature Anthropology 2,10007 “Have we been barking up the wrong ancestral tree? Australopithecines are probably not our ancestors” open access https://www.sciepublish.com/article/pii/94
erik simpson
Feb 5, 2024, 2:52:53 PMFeb 5
to sci.anthropology.paleo
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_Research_Publishing
Primum Sapienti
Feb 5, 2024, 4:14:54 PMFeb 5
to
Marc Verhaegen
Feb 9, 2024, 4:59:11 PMFeb 9
to
Op maandag 5 februari 2024 om 20:52:53 UTC+1 schreef erik simpson:
> > Ape+human evolution & speech origins,
> > modern insights: google
> > - David Attenborough Marc Verhaegen
> > - Gondwanatalks Verhaegen
> > - aquarboreal
> > - seafood, diving, song & speech
> > - Mario Vaneechoutte cs 2024 Nature Anthropology 2,10007 “Have we been barking up the wrong ancestral tree? Australopithecines are probably not our ancestors” open access https://www.sciepublish.com/article/pii/94
The *only* "argument" of the kudu hunters:
> > Ape+human evolution & speech origins,
> > modern insights: google
> > - David Attenborough Marc Verhaegen
> > - Gondwanatalks Verhaegen
> > - aquarboreal
> > - seafood, diving, song & speech
> > - Mario Vaneechoutte cs 2024 Nature Anthropology 2,10007 “Have we been barking up the wrong ancestral tree? Australopithecines are probably not our ancestors” open access https://www.sciepublish.com/article/pii/94
> That's a Chinese "predatory journal", and the article is crap.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_Research_Publishing
:-DDD
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_Research_Publishing
Marc Verhaegen
Feb 9, 2024, 5:01:13 PMFeb 9
to
Op maandag 5 februari 2024 om 22:14:54 UTC+1 schreef Primum Sapienti:
Who of these 2 imbeciles is most stupid??
> erik simpson wrote:
> >> Ape+human evolution & speech origins,
> >> modern insights:
> >> google
> >> - David Attenborough Marc Verhaegen
> >> - Gondwanatalks Verhaegen
> >> - aquarboreal
> >> - seafood, diving, song & speech
> >> - Mario Vaneechoutte cs 2024 Nature Anthropology 2,10007 “Have we been
> >> barking up the wrong ancestral tree? Australopithecines are probably not
> >> our ancestors” open access https://www.sciepublish.com/article/pii/94
The °only° "argument" of the savanna believers:
> >> Ape+human evolution & speech origins,
> >> modern insights:
> >> - David Attenborough Marc Verhaegen
> >> - Gondwanatalks Verhaegen
> >> - aquarboreal
> >> - seafood, diving, song & speech
> >> - Mario Vaneechoutte cs 2024 Nature Anthropology 2,10007 “Have we been
> >> barking up the wrong ancestral tree? Australopithecines are probably not
> >> our ancestors” open access https://www.sciepublish.com/article/pii/94
> > That's a Chinese "predatory journal", and the article is crap.
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_Research_Publishing
> Nice catch.
:-DDD
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_Research_Publishing
> Nice catch.
Who of these 2 imbeciles is most stupid??
JTEM is so reasonable
Feb 10, 2024, 1:22:54 AMFeb 10
to
Primum Sapienti wrote:
> Let's face it
You worship Out of Africa purity & savanna retardation. I don't
think there's much, if anything, you could face.
Aquatic Ape is necessary. Even Out of Africa purity freaks
agree with it. It's how they say humanity spread. A few
claim that it has been confirmed with finds along the
Arabian peninsular. Of course, our ancestors were already
in China more than 2 million years ago. The retrovirus
evidence points to a (roughly) 3.7 million year occupation.
-- --
https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/741817533268656128
> Let's face it
You worship Out of Africa purity & savanna retardation. I don't
think there's much, if anything, you could face.
Aquatic Ape is necessary. Even Out of Africa purity freaks
agree with it. It's how they say humanity spread. A few
claim that it has been confirmed with finds along the
Arabian peninsular. Of course, our ancestors were already
in China more than 2 million years ago. The retrovirus
evidence points to a (roughly) 3.7 million year occupation.
-- --
https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/741817533268656128
JTEM is so reasonable
Feb 10, 2024, 1:47:19 AMFeb 10
to
Primum Sapienti wrote:
> Yes, they did.
Quote them. Copy & paste the words they used in their "detailed analysis
> > And you think that the climate was stable until
> > roughly 300k years ago? Because... why?
> I said no such thing.
Yes you did. But you lack reading comprehension and a grasp of
basic English.
: However, just before and during the extinction window
it's not true because the Glacial/Interglacial cycle is significantly
older.
> I only posted a link to the paper.
You're not even aware that you posted PARAGRAPHS of text?
Wow. You're worse than I thought and, believe me, that's saying
a lot!
> > You have literally set aside absolutely everything you
> > know about the climate, the Quaternary Period,
> > the evolution of the genus Homo just so that you can
> > lap your greedy tongue at the ass crack of the media.
> >
> > Wow. Dd you get tenure? Is that it? Because it sure
> > looks like you did!
> >
> > And here you go, again:
> >
> > https://www.pnas.org/doi/abs/10.1073/pnas.93.7.3016
> >
> > There. Absolutely ZERO explanation missing.
> You finished last in film school, didn't you?
Awesome! The worse you make me out to be, the more
pathetic standing in my shadow like you are.
> "...Homo and Gigantopithecus co-occur at Tham Khuyen
> about a half million years ago."
>
> Now, from the other paper's abstract:
>
> "... just before and during the extinction window
> between 295,000 and 215,000 years ago there was
> enhanced environmental variability..."
It's not detailed and it's not correct. You're just a drone, throwing
aside what it knows in order to be obedient.
> You do understand that half a million years ago is
> OLDER than 295kya to 215kya?
Lord knows, you're not bright but what is it you think you're
saying here?
There are literally countless species driven instinct at least in part
due to human activity. Rarely if ever it's immediate. When did
humans enter North Africa? When did the North African Elephants
go extinct? When did the bears die out?
You are a blithering idiot. You're so hungry to be "Right" --
starving, actually -- that you forgot that we're supposed to discover
the truth, not dictate it.
-- --
https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/741817533268656128
> Yes, they did.
Quote them. Copy & paste the words they used in their "detailed analysis
of conditions during which G. lived."
Put another way: You're impotent.
> > And you think that the climate was stable until
> > roughly 300k years ago? Because... why?
> I said no such thing.
basic English.
: However, just before and during the extinction window
: between 295,000 and 215,000 years ago there was enhanced
: environmental variability from increased seasonality, which
: caused changes in plant communities and an increase in open
: forest environments.
The above is quoted from YOUR post. It's not true. We both know
: forest environments.
it's not true because the Glacial/Interglacial cycle is significantly
older.
> I only posted a link to the paper.
Wow. You're worse than I thought and, believe me, that's saying
a lot!
> > You have literally set aside absolutely everything you
> > know about the climate, the Quaternary Period,
> > the evolution of the genus Homo just so that you can
> > lap your greedy tongue at the ass crack of the media.
> >
> > Wow. Dd you get tenure? Is that it? Because it sure
> > looks like you did!
> >
> > And here you go, again:
> >
> > https://www.pnas.org/doi/abs/10.1073/pnas.93.7.3016
> >
> > There. Absolutely ZERO explanation missing.
> You finished last in film school, didn't you?
pathetic standing in my shadow like you are.
> "...Homo and Gigantopithecus co-occur at Tham Khuyen
> about a half million years ago."
>
> Now, from the other paper's abstract:
>
> "... just before and during the extinction window
> between 295,000 and 215,000 years ago there was
> enhanced environmental variability..."
aside what it knows in order to be obedient.
> You do understand that half a million years ago is
> OLDER than 295kya to 215kya?
saying here?
There are literally countless species driven instinct at least in part
due to human activity. Rarely if ever it's immediate. When did
humans enter North Africa? When did the North African Elephants
go extinct? When did the bears die out?
You are a blithering idiot. You're so hungry to be "Right" --
starving, actually -- that you forgot that we're supposed to discover
the truth, not dictate it.
-- --
https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/741817533268656128
Marc Verhaegen
Feb 10, 2024, 9:46:09 AMFeb 10
to
Op zaterdag 10 februari 2024 om 07:22:54 UTC+1 schreef JTEM is so reasonable:
> Aquatic Ape is necessary. Even Out of Africa purity freaks
> agree with it. It's how they say humanity spread. A few
> claim that it has been confirmed with finds along the
> Arabian peninsular. Of course, our ancestors were already
> in China more than 2 million years ago. The retrovirus
> evidence points to a (roughly) 3.7 million year occupation.
Yes, at least.
What happened is not so difficult if we use comparative anatomy + (very incomplete) fossil evidence:
Hominoidea ("apes"): large size, very long arms, complete tail loss, vertical & centrally-placed spine, shortened lumbar spine, very wide pelvis & thorax + sternum (Hominoidea=Latisternalia):
IOW, early-Miocene, possibly late-Oligocene Hominoidea were already upright: bipedally wading + climbing arms overhead in coastal forests.
This is clear for everybody with a *little* bit of anatomical insight.
Where did this happen?
My *hypothesis* :-) cf plate tectonics!
When Afro-Arabia approached Eurasia, this formed island archipels + plenty of coastal forests:
Catarrhini that reached these islands became fully "aquarboreal" (google!!):
- hylobatids (different branches?) first reached S.Asia --> SE.Asia,
- when Arabia reached Eurasia, this splt the Tethys Ocean in
E: Indian Ocean coastal forests->inland along rivers...: pongids-sivapiths,
W: Medit.Sea coastal forests->inland along rivers...: hominids-dryopiths.
This explains Trachilos BP footprints, Oreopith "swamp ape" etc.etc.
Hominids s.s.(HPG) only survived in the incipient Red Sea:
--Gorilla 8-7 Ma followed the incipient N-Rift -> Afar: Lucy cs,
--when the Red Sea opened into the Gulf/Aden (5.3 Ma? Zanclean mega-flood),
Pan turned right -> E.Afr.coastal forests -> incipient S-Rift -> Transvaal: Taung cs,
Homo turned left -> H.erectus early-Pleist.Java->China, Flores etc.: Pleist.coastal dispersal Old World.
This explains:
- no Pliocene African retroviral DNA in humans,
- parallel evolution Gorilla//Pan = Praeanthropus//Australopithecus:
--late-Pliocene "gracile" afarensis//africanus,
--early-Pleist. "robust" boisei//robustus,
--Pleist.(cool+dry) knuckle-walking Gorilla//Pan.
Simple, no?
Even imbecilic kudu runners can understand this?? :-DDD
> Aquatic Ape is necessary. Even Out of Africa purity freaks
> agree with it. It's how they say humanity spread. A few
> claim that it has been confirmed with finds along the
> Arabian peninsular. Of course, our ancestors were already
> in China more than 2 million years ago. The retrovirus
> evidence points to a (roughly) 3.7 million year occupation.
What happened is not so difficult if we use comparative anatomy + (very incomplete) fossil evidence:
Hominoidea ("apes"): large size, very long arms, complete tail loss, vertical & centrally-placed spine, shortened lumbar spine, very wide pelvis & thorax + sternum (Hominoidea=Latisternalia):
IOW, early-Miocene, possibly late-Oligocene Hominoidea were already upright: bipedally wading + climbing arms overhead in coastal forests.
This is clear for everybody with a *little* bit of anatomical insight.
Where did this happen?
My *hypothesis* :-) cf plate tectonics!
When Afro-Arabia approached Eurasia, this formed island archipels + plenty of coastal forests:
Catarrhini that reached these islands became fully "aquarboreal" (google!!):
- hylobatids (different branches?) first reached S.Asia --> SE.Asia,
- when Arabia reached Eurasia, this splt the Tethys Ocean in
E: Indian Ocean coastal forests->inland along rivers...: pongids-sivapiths,
W: Medit.Sea coastal forests->inland along rivers...: hominids-dryopiths.
This explains Trachilos BP footprints, Oreopith "swamp ape" etc.etc.
Hominids s.s.(HPG) only survived in the incipient Red Sea:
--Gorilla 8-7 Ma followed the incipient N-Rift -> Afar: Lucy cs,
--when the Red Sea opened into the Gulf/Aden (5.3 Ma? Zanclean mega-flood),
Pan turned right -> E.Afr.coastal forests -> incipient S-Rift -> Transvaal: Taung cs,
Homo turned left -> H.erectus early-Pleist.Java->China, Flores etc.: Pleist.coastal dispersal Old World.
This explains:
- no Pliocene African retroviral DNA in humans,
- parallel evolution Gorilla//Pan = Praeanthropus//Australopithecus:
--late-Pliocene "gracile" afarensis//africanus,
--early-Pleist. "robust" boisei//robustus,
--Pleist.(cool+dry) knuckle-walking Gorilla//Pan.
Simple, no?
Even imbecilic kudu runners can understand this?? :-DDD
Primum Sapienti
Feb 20, 2024, 10:30:40 PMFeb 20
to
JTEM is so reasonable wrote:
> Primum Sapienti wrote:
>
>> Let's face it
>
> You worship Out of Africa purity & savanna retardation. I don't
You worship mv. Get help.
>
>> Let's face it
>
> You worship Out of Africa purity & savanna retardation. I don't
> think there's much, if anything, you could face.
>
> Aquatic Ape is necessary. Even Out of Africa purity freaks
Nostradamus Nonsense.
> agree with it. It's how they say humanity spread. A few
around the world.
> claim that it has been confirmed with finds along the
> Arabian peninsular. Of course, our ancestors were already
> in China more than 2 million years ago. The retrovirus
time frame
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aaw7293
3 Apr 2020
Contemporaneity of Australopithecus, Paranthropus,
and early Homo erectus in South Africa
"The DNH 134 cranium shares clear affinities with
Homo erectus, whereas the DNH 152 cranium represents
P. robustus. Stratigraphic analysis of the Drimolen
Main Quarry deposits indicates that unlike many
other South African sites, there was only one major
phase of relatively short deposition between ~2.04
million years ago and ~1.95 million years ago. ...
The DNH 134 cranium shares affinities with H.
erectus and predates all known specimens in that
species."
"The DNH 134 Homo cranium has affinities with H.
erectus and extends the species’ temporal range
by ~200,000 to 150,000 years. DNH 134 being older
than A. sediba complicates the likelihood of this
species being ancestral to Homo in South Africa,
as previously suggested. With the oldest occurrence
of H. erectus at the southern tip of Africa, this
argues against a suggested Asian origin for H.
erectus."
"We interpret the occurrence of Homo aff. erectus
at this time in South Africa, and soon after at
Dmanisi (73), as evidence for a major range
expansion of this species (covering at least 8000
km) both out of and within Africa around 2.0 to
1.8 Ma ago."
Ancestors went east later
> evidence points to a (roughly) 3.7 million year occupation
JTEM is so reasonable
Feb 21, 2024, 12:27:04 PMFeb 21
to
Primum Sapienti wrote:
> You worship mv. Get help.
I came to Aquatic Ape quite independently to him, through
> You worship mv. Get help.
MultiRegionalism.
> > Aquatic Ape is necessary. Even Out of Africa purity freaks
> It's quackology.
scientific excrement. For starters, the "African" population
isn't a separate species at all. Much of the "African" DNA
arrived in Africa via Aquatic Ape, from Eurasia.
> Along with your space aliens and
> Nostradamus Nonsense.
reading comprehension. Why's that?
> We live on land and traveled on land.
acknowledging the fact that our ancestors followed the
coast, exploited the sea.
> Ancestors did not swim
> around the world.
of the very many times "Coastal Dispersal" was invoked,
including within this very thread.
"Coastal Dispersal," btw, is mainstream.
> Well inland.
Do you mean that the not-at-all-first-generation tools
were found well inland? But they're not first generation
tools. So the ancestral population who left them evolved
somewhere else. And as you insist that they came from
Africa, and the mainstream says they moved around via
"Coastal Dispersal," guess where that inland group came
from?
> erectus finds in South Africa in the same
> time frame
An undergrad student said a juvenile skull fragment most
closely resembled erectus. But it was a juvenile and it
wasn't found with erectus but Paranthropus. So you have
an anomalous find which, had it survived, would likely
have turned out to look very different...
> Contemporaneity of Australopithecus, Paranthropus,
> and early Homo erectus in South Africa
skull which nobody looked at and saw erectus, at least
until an undergrade said it looked most like erectus, is
proof that erectus lived there. Well. Identify it as
something else.
Get rid of the anomaly.
It's pretty simple: "Gee. This skull came from an
individual that had yet to grow it's sagital crest.
There. Done.
> "The DNH 134 Homo cranium
because we said it was a Homo skull, so that proves
erectus was there!"
> > evidence points to a (roughly) 3.7 million year occupation
> What evidence is that?
are you intentionally pretending that you're unaware of the
retrovirus evidence?
Or all of the above, I suppose...
-- --
https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/742798356654473216
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Marc Verhaegen
Feb 22, 2024, 9:42:10 AMFeb 22
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This idiot is wasting our time, JTEM: he assumes Drimolen DHN-134 is erectus... :-DDD
No platycephaly, no pachyosteosclerosis: these fools call all hominid fossils they find "Homo" & "human ancestors": they believe bonobos, chimps & gorillas can't have fossil relatives... :-DDD
Most likely a robustus child.
In any case, H.erectus then was in SE.Asia: Mojokerto etc.:
"Have we been barking up the wrong ancestral tree? Australopithecines are probably not our ancestors"
doi org/10.35534/natanthropol.2023.10007
... upright posture/gait is already present to different degrees even in Miocene apes : hominoid orthogrady is a primitive characteristic : knuckle-walking has evolved in parallel, independently in both Pan // Gorilla ... numerous similarities between australopiths & extant African apes ... not our direct ancestors ...
"Evolution of type C viral genes: evidence for an Asian origin of man"
RE Benveniste & GJ Todaro 1976 Nature 261:101-8
... OWMs & apes incl. man possess, as a normal component of their cellular DNA, virogenes related to the RNA of a vims isolated from baboons (this) distinguishes those OWMs & apes that have evolved in Africa from those that have evolved in Asia. Among the apes, only gorilla & chimp seem by these criteria to be African - gibbon, orang & man are identified as Asian: most of man's evolution has occurred outside Africa.
"Lineage-specific expansions of retroviral insertions within the genomes of African great apes but not humans and orangutans"
CT Yohn cs 2005 doi 10.1371/journal.pbio.0030110
... Pan troglodytes endogenous retrovirus-1 (PTERV1) has become integrated in the germ-line of Afr.gr.ape & OWM spp, but is absent from human & Asian ape genomes ... a RV infection bombarded chimp & gorilla genomes independently & concurrently, 3-4 Ma ...
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