OT: Blood iron disorder

[DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves]

Article from Conversation.com about H(a)emochromatosis genetic disorder where blood & organs accumulate too much iron, due to c282y Gene mutation (one or 2 gene copies). I strongly suspect I have this, probably the single copy type, and will try to get tested. It is most common in northwestern Europe, especially Scotland, Ireland, Norway.

In a loose sense, it is like the spectral 'opposite' of sickle cell, thallasemia or other types of anemia.

If anyone is personally familiar with this disorder, please inform.
[ My email is daud....@gmail.com ]

I know there was a study of Norwegian blood plasma donors who were former blood donors that gradually developed higher than expected blood iron. I have exactly the same situation, despite limiting my dietary iron. I suspect some of my earlier kin had this condition and never knew, and had resulting health problems. I have incipient hip arthritis which I had thought due to motorcycle accident, Lyme disease and/or genes, but this disorder seems more likely, I have Scottish, Irish, Danish, French & German ancestry (and other).

The article goes into how Hunting-fishing-gathering people in North Europe switched to agriculture and that was related to this. I'm interested in that as well, the ecological & cultural aspects.

I didn't know that Ernest Hemingway had this "Celtic Curse" and suffered from it.

I became aware of it by a dietician (at AAT) saying that artherisclerosis(spell) is when the body coats arteries with waxy layer to reduce contact with too-high-iron blood, and that blockage results due to a diet of both high-iron and high-fat food eg. fatty beef.
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The Conversation

Haemochromatosis: disorder that causes body to absorb too much iron from food may be major cause of disease

January 17, 2019 5.39am EST
Janice Atkins, David Melzer, Luke Pilling, University of Exeter

Many people have never heard of it, but hereditary haemochromatosis is the most common genetic disease in the Western world, with 250,000 people of European ancestry in the UK affected and a million in the US. The faulty genes responsible cause excessive absorption of iron, which sometimes builds up to toxic levels. We’ve now shown that these faulty genes cause more damage around the body than previously thought. But the good news is that the treatment is simple. It involves donating blood to bring iron levels down.

Over the last 15 years, our research group at the University of Exeter has focused on the question: why are some older people ill and frail in their sixties while others remain active and disease free into their nineties and beyond. In our most recent study, we used data from the UK Biobank, which contains genetic and medical data from half a million people, to find genes associated with muscle ageing, searching across people’s DNA. To our surprise, we found a link between the haemochromatosis gene and muscle weakness, chronic pain and frailty in the older people in the study who weren’t diagnosed with haemochromatosis.

UK Biobank studied 500,000 volunteers who were interviewed when they were 40 to 70 years old, and we have data from their hospital records for an average of seven years after the interview. We were able to study 2,890 people with both faulty haemochromatosis genes (called HFE C282Y mutations), making the study nearly ten times larger than any previous similar one.

Severe consequences if not treated early
Our papers, in the BMJ and the Journal of Gerontology: Medical Sciences, report that those with the two faulty genes have quadruple the rates of liver disease and double the rates of arthritis and frailty compared with the general population. They also have higher rates of liver cancer, diabetes (both type 1 and type 2), chronic pain and tiredness. Both the younger (40- to 59-year-olds) and the older group (60 to 70) were affected.

The more severe effects of the faulty genes are fairly frequently seen in healthcare. Of all the hip replacements in men in the UK Biobank study, 1.6% were in men with the two faulty genes. Nearly 6% of all the liver cancers in the study were also in people with the faulty genes.

Women tend to be diagnosed with haemochromatosis at older ages than men, as they have partial protection from losing iron through menstruation and having children, although some younger women do develop the disease.

Most of the excess liver disease, arthritis, diabetes, tiredness, pain and muscle weakness could be prevented if treatment is started before damage from excess iron sets in. To maintain low iron levels, people with the two faulty genes need to give blood three or four times a year. The blood can even be used by others for transfusion – a rare win-win.

If the disease is left untreated, very high iron levels can build up causing permanent damage, and blood might have to be taken once every two weeks for a year and destroyed. Economic models show that routine screening of people of European ancestry for haemochromatosis would more than pay for itself.

The iron absorption mutation may have become common when hunter-gatherers switched to agriculture in low iron areas, over 10,000 years ago. Between 10 and 15% of people with northern European ancestry carry one copy of the C282Y mutation, with about one in 150 inheriting the high-risk two copies. People of southern European ancestry have about half that rate of the faulty genes.

Treatment involves giving blood, which can then be reused.

More screening is needed
Symptoms of haemochromatosis are not easy to diagnose without specific blood or genetic testing. The joint pains and arthritis in haemochromatosis develop in a similar way to osteoarthritis, with the differences between the two being difficult to spot. Of course, doctors see many patients with tiredness, most of whom don’t have haemochromatosis. The joint pains and tiredness are sometimes mistaken as “normal” signs of ageing by both patients and doctors. It is only when the more severe damage is done to the liver that the disease becomes easier to recognise.

It is clear that routine testing is needed if patients are to be identified early enough, and it is exciting to think that such a large amount of disease could be avoided by such a simple treatment. The prospect of halving frailty rates in older people with these faulty genes is also very exciting.

Feeling worn out? You could have iron overload

Explainer: can the body have too much iron?

Anaemia: why is it still affecting women?

Should we edit out genetic disease?
Sign in to comment2 Comments

Lorraine Muller
A very useful article. Thank you.

2 days ago
Rolf Norolk

Ernest Hemingway a notable sufferer (please also note the site below is devoted to the disease):

http://celticcurse.org/hemingways-death-and-hemochromatosis-awareness/

Copyright © 2010–2019
The Conversation US, Inc.
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daud....@gmail.com

[DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves]

In the interest of medical historical use of medicinal leeches to treat osteoarthritis, and the "mimicry" to osteoarthritis in hemochromatosis, I suspect leeches removing excess blood overloaded with iron great benefitted patients in NW Europe where Hemochromatosis is most common, but would have had debilitating effects on anemic people with actual osteoarthritis.

Humans replace blood plasma in a day, but take about a month to replace blood.

There are freshwater, terrestrial and marine Leeches. In the Malayan tropical rainforest, leeches are commonplace.

To lower blood iron, I am considering buying bait leeches, feeding them, then using them for bait to catch sea trout, to grill or steam in the pressure cooker on the stove, resulting in low-fat low-iron high-protein meals, replacing the fatty high-iron domestic beef, pork, chicken in my diet. I just need a fishing pole and some leeches.

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Wiki: leeches

The bodies of predatory leeches are similar, though instead of jaws many have a protrusible proboscis, which for most of the time they keep retracted into the mouth. Such leeches are often ambush predators that lie in wait till they can strike prey with the proboscises in a spear-like fashion.[!!] Predatory leeches feed on small invertebrates such as snails, earthworms and insect larvae. The prey is usually sucked in and swallowed whole. Some Rhynchobdellida, however, suck the soft tissues from their prey, making them intermediate between predators and blood-suckers.[17]


When they are hungry, leeches use their anterior suckers to connect to hosts for feeding. Once attached, leeches use a combination of mucus and suction to stay in place while they inject hirudin into the hosts' blood streams. In general, sanguivorous leeches are non host-specific, and do little harm to their host, dropping off after consuming a blood meal. Some marine species, however, remain attached until it is time to reproduce. If present in great numbers on a host, these can be debilitating, and in extreme cases, cause death.[20]

Leeches are unusual in that they do not produce amylases, lipases or endopeptidases.[17] This lack of endopeptidases means the mechanism of protein digestion cannot follow the same sequence as it would in all other animals in which endopeptidases first split proteins into peptides, and the exopeptidases then degrade the peptides.[22] However, they do produce intestinal exopeptidases which remove amino acids from the long protein molecules one by one, possibly aided by proteases from endosymbiotic bacteria in the intestine.[23] This evolutionary choice of exopeptic digestion in Hirudinea distinguishes these carnivorous clitellates from oligochaetes, and may explain why digestion in leeches is so slow.[17]

Deficiency of digestive enzymes and of B complex vitamins is compensated for by enzymes and vitamins produced by endosymbiotic microflora. In Hirudo medicinalis, these supplementary factors are produced by an obligatory symbiotic relationship with two bacterial species, Aeromonas veronii and a still-uncharacterised Rikenella species. Nonbloodsucking leeches, such as Erpobdella punctata, are host to three bacterial symbionts, Pseudomonas, Aeromonas, and Klebsiella spp. (a slime producer). The bacteria are passed from parent to offspring in the cocoon as it is formed.[22]
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Oldest leech fossil from Wisconsin, Silurian. I used to swim in lakes in Minnesota & Wisconsin in summer, some lakes were full of leeches, particularly Leech Lake, I didn't know blood loss could be a good thing.

Why did Hemochromatosis give evolutionary advantage to coastal Celts (fishing & H&G) before agriculture (grain, dairy, beef) arrived? Leeches were not significant problem, could blood-iron hoarding been beneficial against mosquitoes, or fighting wounds, or diet at coastal islands rich in Iodine but not in Iron?

[DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves]

https://www.singlecare.com/blog/hemochromatosis-diet/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6414192/

We report the first case of a possible human iron deficiency due to the absorption of iron in the gut due to turmeric. While causality cannot be readily determined, the patient’s hemoglobin, iron, and ferritin were all reduced after he started turmeric and returned to normal after he stopped it. No other cause of iron deficiency or blood loss was found on extensive evaluation.

Turmeric is among the spices known to inhibit iron absorption by 20%-90% in humans, reducing iron absorption in a dose-dependent manner [10].

The
iron deficiency associated with turmeric has been reported in the lay literature, with several patients describing anemia that responded to stopping turmeric (https://www.consumerlab.com/answers/does-turmeric-curcumin-reduce-iron-absorption-from-food/turmeric-curcumin-iron/; ConsumerLab.com; Accessed: January 8, 2019). At least one hemochromatosis website recommends turmeric for its benefit in arthritis and potential benefit in reducing excess body iron. (https://hemochromatosishelp.com/turmeric-benefit-for-hemochromatosis/; Accessed: January 8, 2019). While labs were not drawn to assess the effect of turmeric on anemia, the rapid recovery of hemoglobin from 12 to 13.9 g/dL in two weeks off turmeric, with no other changes in the medical regimen, suggest an association.

Conclusions
Turmeric supplementation is increasingly common. Humans presenting with iron deficiency anemia should be queried about supplement use. The ability of turmeric to absorb intestinal iron may lead to it being useful in states of iron overload, such as hemochromatosis, or hemolytic anemias, such as sickle cell disease.
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Time to add some turmeric to my food. I like curry, that is rich in yellow turmeric.

[I Envy JTEM]

DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:

> Article from Conversation.com about H(a)emochromatosis genetic disorder where blood & organs accumulate too much iron, due to c282y Gene mutation (one or 2 gene copies). I strongly suspect I have this, probably the single copy type, and will try to get tested. It is most common in northwestern Europe, especially Scotland, Ireland, Norway.

It's the kind of condition which would have been evolutionarily irrelevant,
as problems arise in mid life, it seems, and for most of human history
you'd never live that long anyway.

If it was selected for in the past, I have to wonder if it was brought from
latter day migrants from the middle east, bringing agriculture to Europe,
as would see no benefit. (Most people have trouble absorbing iron from
plants, but no difficulty in absorbing it from meat)

My mom was always losing blood and they supposedly could never
figure out why. Ironically, they prescribed her iron tablets so I hope they
ruled this out first!

I should check stuff like that myself, as I seem to have inherited some
of her medical quirks. Like I once got a call from my doctor, all concerned,
because of my low test results for sodium.

I laughed!

I told him that, if anything, I eat way too much salt. That, it was something
I must've inherited from my mom as she always tested "Normal" and she
over salted EVERYTHING!




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https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/692168471435526144

[DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves]

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Some studies on heme:

Medicago & soil bacteria, hemopexin
https://news.mit.edu/2022/heme-plant-molecule-iron-0811

Hemozoin
https://uofuhealth.utah.edu/newsroom/news/2019/10/mammals-hemozoin.php

Iron absorption & tannins
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/agricultural-and-biological-sciences/iron-absorption

Bacteria binding iron
https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.0903842106#sec-1

[DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves]

Gene editing
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2022-10-gene-therapy-iron-storage-disease.html
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2022-10-thermogenesis-fat-cells-period-circadian.html

[DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves]

Ok, to review, I tend to hoard iron, I donate blood plasma 2x a week (my hematocrit is always higher and protein lower than optimal, fat w/in 12 hrs of donating causes cloudy blood which slows donation), bicycle 5mi 5x a week, lift weights & stretch & light calisthenics 3x a week, had medium carb low fat diet, now switching to paleo-keto diet of higher fat higher meat low sugar low starch in order to maintain health and reduce some visceral and subcutaneous fat.

[Working out for 6 mo. at PF, still can't see my 6pack abs, but muscles & fat are much better. Doing barefoot pushups, situps, lunges, 20 min. fast walks w/ 10lb dumbells, no pullups/chinups due to shoulder injury. Got crowned, oralB & waterpik yesterday, dental health much better in last 6 mo, will improve, still $30k work to do.]

I find that whole milk inhibits iron absorption via whey, casein and calcium. So 12 hours before donation, no milk, not fatty meat, yes whey, yes much freshwater & a protein drink of low fat low iron low Vit C, light exercise aerobics 2hrs before, no lifting after, no caffeine or alcohol before or until after 2hrs of post-donation hydration.

The paleo-keto diet can work with plasma donation and weight lifting, with a few caveats.

Whole milk + natural meat -> high protein + high fat + low iron

Whole Milk
Whole milk (containing 3.25 percent fat) has about 150 calories, 8 grams of protein and 8 grams of fat per cup.
You might feel fuller from a higher fat intake — aka drinking whole milk — which can reduce overall calorie intake throughout the day. People who consumed full-fat dairy gained less weight than those who stuck to low-fat dairy products, according to April 2016 research published in the ​American Journal of Clinical Nutrition​.

So 5 days meat and milk & low carb,
and 2 donor days low fat low carb high water high veg.

Daily: Avocado & 3 raw egg & whey+stevia decaf in am., milk & meat pm., oats-whole grain-rice eve.
Progress.

[DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves]

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Regarding zinc, iron and nitrogen isotopes in neanderthal study (hyper carnivory, vegetarian, marine diet?) I see this article about zinc & iron absorption:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6722515/

[DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves]

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Dr. Sten Ekberg video about Low Carb, High Fat, Intermittent Fasting to control weight, the Keto diet. Primary: drop carbs to 5% to stop storing fat due to insulin response to consuming sugars and starches and excess protein (above 20%), leaving 75% fat consumption. Eating fat does not trigger insulin response yet gives energy, unlike other foods. Beef meat and fat, cheese, butter, milk are all good; ice cream is bad due to sugar. Fat satiates much better than sugar; MSG enhances flavor to taste buds inducing overeating of carbs. Good fats: (cold pressed) organic coconut oil, very fine olive oil, avocado,
Being in ketosis (NOT ketoacidosis!) allows burning body fat for fuel without insulin causing storage hunger.
Dr. Ekberg says that fat in blood, making it cloudy, is not bad for health, just bad for plasma machine filters.
Some Plasma centers say avoid milk 24 hrs before donating, probably because of fat and because milk has casein, whey and calcium which block iron absorption.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsLRUhC5VnM

[DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves]

Avoiding milk before donating is mainly for women with low iron, whereas most healthy men have higher iron, and men of NW Euro heritage have even higher iron storage.

Dr. Ekberg has a video on exercise, run or walk: to burn fat, do low-stress fat-fueled aerobics daily and avoid high-stress glucose-fueled anaerobics, except in local muscles during moderate weight-lifting & calisthenics (muscles store some glucose/glycogen which can be burned without driving the liver's cortisol-> insulin response that stops fat burning.)

So, best plan is: meat + milk + eggs + very low carbs + daily aerobics => fat burning + protein building muscle w/o iron overload or type 2 diabetes, preferably bare feet fitness with little sweat and well hydrated. DD

[littor...@gmail.com]

Pseudo-scientist about ??"paleo-anthropology":

> Avoiding milk before donating is mainly for women with low iron, whereas most healthy men have higher iron, and men of NW Euro heritage have even higher iron storage.
> Dr. Ekberg has a video on exercise, run or walk: to burn fat, do low-stress fat-fueled aerobics daily and avoid high-stress glucose-fueled anaerobics, except in local muscles during moderate weight-lifting & calisthenics (muscles store some glucose/glycogen which can be burned without driving the liver's cortisol-> insulin response that stops fat burning.)
> So, best plan is: meat + milk + eggs + very low carbs + daily aerobics => fat burning + protein building muscle w/o iron overload or type 2 diabetes, preferably bare feet fitness with little sweat and well hydrated.

:-DDD
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/331432412_Coastal_Dispersal_of_Pleistocene_Homo

[DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves]

On Friday, November 11, 2022 at 7:10:03 AM UTC-5, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> Pseudo-scientist about ??"paleo-anthropology":

To the non-English speaking novice of Sci.Anthro.Paleo, OT means Off Topic.
We don't know why you insert the word 'Pseudo-scientist', relevance?

> > Avoiding milk before donating is mainly for women with low iron, whereas most healthy men have higher iron, and men of NW Euro heritage have even higher iron storage.
> > Dr. Ekberg has a video on exercise, run or walk: to burn fat, do low-stress fat-fueled aerobics daily and avoid high-stress glucose-fueled anaerobics, except in local muscles during moderate weight-lifting & calisthenics (muscles store some glucose/glycogen which can be burned without driving the liver's cortisol-> insulin response that stops fat burning.)

> > So, best plan is: fatty meat + whole milk + eggs + avocados + very low carbs + daily aerobics => fat burning + protein building muscle w/o iron overload or type 2 diabetes, preferably bare feet fitness with little sweat and well hydrated.
> :-DDD
> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/331432412_Coastal_Dispersal_of_Pleistocene_Homo

Perhaps the non-English speaking novice of Sci.Anthro.Paleo does not understand that shellfish and crustaceans have meat? Unfortunately, oysters and some clams (farmed?) have very high heme iron content (much higher than beef), so I must avoid eating them before donating blood plasma. *Afterwards*, I usually get a tin of delicious smoked oysters and some shrimp or a steak for the grill, and some cold beer.

My speculation is that NW European males (UK, Scandinavia: cloudy chilly climate) developed genetic propensity for iron overload (hemochromatosis) due to a heavy reliance on domestic dairy products which blocked iron absorption. I don't know if the ancient H&G people of that region also had iron overload, or if it was common only among dairy-dependent farmers that arrived later.

[DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves]

Does high fat diet cause chronic pain?
(Note that article does not mention if carbs are consumed during diet, which is critical to acknowledge.)
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2022-11-high-fat-diet-provoke-pain-sensitivity.html

[DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves]

Do Resistant (indigestible) Starches vs Digestible Starches parallel (indigestible) Cellulose Sugar vs Digestible Sugars?
Not quite. Resistant starches don't digest in the small intestine where regular starches & simple sugars are digested. Instead, they digest in the large intestine. Whereas cellulose is not digested at all.

Great article on how Resistant Starches benefit health and other starches do not:

https://yurielkaim.com/resistant-starch/

Resistant starches are appropriate for a low carb, high fat, moderate protein diet. They don't trigger acute insulin/cortisol response that other carbs do. Note that the method of cooking & prep is important.

The Discovery of Resistant Starch
Interest into the benefits of starch and resistant starches began several decades ago. Researchers were first studying cancers of the intestines and saw that tribes and populations in East Africa had oddly low rates of bowel cancers.
This was remarkable because the diet of these populations wasn’t high in fiber, which at the time was thought to be the key to warding off bowel cancers. Instead, the East African diet was composed of very starchy foods like yams, sweet potatoes, corn and bananas. These are all foods that are relatively low in fiber and very high in the carbohydrates that most people now have an urge to stay away from. It wasn’t just protection against bowel cancer; these East African groups also had good cardiovascular health and low rates of diabetes too!

Researchers knew there had to be something unrelated to fiber which was contributing to their remarkable health and extremely low rates of bowel cancer. The answer: an unusually high starchy food intake.

Recent studies have found significantly fewer cancer-related proteins and acids in stools after eating resistant starch. There is even some research now showing resistant starch can help reverse a bad gut environment.

There are four different sources of resistant starch which are grouped according to their source (5):

Type 1 is found in the fibrous cell walls of grains and seeds.
Type 2 is made up of raw starches—potatoes, green bananas and some legumes.
Type 3 foods get their resistant starch from the cooking then cooling process. This includes sweet potatoes, rice, yams and some whole grain breads.
Type 4 is man-made or chemically produced. This form is typically used by food manufacturers who add it to processed food items.

Unfortunately, iron is better absorbed from resistant starches, but it is non-heme afaict.

[DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves]

Note that the "East African Diet" mentioned in the article is of recent historical trade, agriculture of Malaysian bananas, American corn/maize and sweet potatoes were not African, nor were domestic Asian yams. African yams have more toxins, cooking them is required, cooling them before eating converts starch to resistant starch, this may have been the original function of cooking plant storage organs, not to eat hot foods.

[DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves]

Thus the tradition in Africa of cooking tubers in the mid day dry heat, eating a small portion for lunch for quick energy but letting most cool, then eating them in the cool evening was fortuitous, carbs being best digested in the evening with least insulin/cortisol reaction.

Insulin is carb-stimulated, cortisol is stress-stimulated. Instant energy is glucose burning stimulated by cortisol stress response which raises insulin, while slow energy HGH., Human Growth Hormone (gradually mobilizes energy) does the opposite of insulin (stores energy) and is beneficial to growth-maintenance of body and brain synapses, but when HGH & insulin are combined together they enable cancer growth. Cancer can't live in a low glucose low insulin environment, HGH in that situation doesn't promote cancer. But when teen boys both habitually eat high carb and inject HGH, they create a situation that does not occur in nature, promoting rapid cancer growth while quickly improving their strength & physique.

[I strongly suspect that this is what happened to the security guard I have mentioned earlier in SAP who died of pancreatic cancer, a geriatric disease, while he was still a young man of very impressive physique.]

Best natural production of HGH with very low insulin-cortisol: 24hr fast x One Meal A Day wkly x High Intensity Interval Training (20 sec on 20 sec off for 5min x biwkly) x quality sleep (most HGH & hormones released during non-eating sleep) X skip breakfast & late dinner x laugh & meditate. Anaerobic situps & crunches don't burn belly fat because they stimulate stress-cortisol-insulin response, only do during wkly HIIT.
Taking external supplemental GABA, Vit B, Arginine, Testosterone, melatonin (sleep hormone opp. of cortisol) reduces the body's own natural production of it, producing addictions. however, some whole supplements with whole foods are good if lacking: minerals, vitamins, nutritional yeast, fish oils.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haIJ05k0HIk
Fat or calorie burning: hormone change or exercise? Chubby to slim requires hormone change plus short HIIT (produces HGH due to forcing limits and only tiny cortiso), not intense long cardio aerobics (which produces high cortisol which fatigues adrenals and causes glucose craving and displaces HGH). 5 minute warm up + (20sec on fire, 20sec off) x 5, OR, 5 min warmup + max onfire til failure.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJ7yzFjZOFU

Finally, lower back pain results from hip & lower back flexor muscles tightening more than stomach muscles due to sitting up & driving for 8hrs/day or doing many situps. Stomach muscles can only contract the chest to the pelvis, shouldn't ever jerk. Only mobile fauna have brains, brains develop due to mobilization. Ab exercises to enlarge muscles + FAST-HIIT to lose belly fat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GgqQBoe5ts

[DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves]

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Because I need to match milk with meat, to reduce iron level in blood prior to donating blood plasma, i bought some dehydrated milk. I prefer whole milk 3.5% fat, but fat clogs the plasmaphoresis machine, so I got nonfat milk to consume w/in 24hrs of donation. I was surprised to find that it contains high natural sugars, more than half is milk sugar, which converts to glucose producing quick insulin response. So I have to consider it a carb/protein blend, not a purely protein/fat blend which I'd prefer. I doubt there is a low-carb milk available on the market, unless for diabetics.

[DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves]

Cheese is better than milk in ketosis, higher fat, lower carbs. Consume non-fat milk only to counter iron in meat and eggs on days of donation. Unsweetened nut milks are ok anytime: macadamia, almond, flax etc.
https://www.mindbodygreen.com/articles/is-milk-keto-these-7-low-carb-milks-will-keep-you-in-ketosis

[littor...@gmail.com]

...

> Because I need to match milk with meat

Who cares?? Please don't waste our time: keep running, my boy.

[DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves]

Je mentale faciliteiten gaan sneller achteruit dan ik kan rennen, meine kleine tochter.
Keer nu terug naar je veilige schuilplaats en droom over je dikke kleine zeemeerminnen.
. . . en schrijf nog een fantasieroman! ! !
:~D

[DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves]

I forgot, you aren't trilingual, your English & German nicht sehr gut, jah?
Ach, 'mijn kleine dochter' is de juistere dosering.

[DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves]

On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 6:34:57 AM UTC-5, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 6:19:54 AM UTC-5, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> > On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 5:57:25 AM UTC-5, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > ...
> > > > Because I need to match milk with meat

Standard Reference Number Triangle: https://youtu.be/esQyYGezS7c?t=390 Fat, Protein, Carbohydrates

[DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves]

On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 10:36:46 AM UTC-5, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 6:34:57 AM UTC-5, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> > On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 6:19:54 AM UTC-5, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 5:57:25 AM UTC-5, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > ...
> > > > > Because I need to match milk with meat
> Standard Reference Number Triangle: https://youtu.be/esQyYGezS7c?t=390 Fat, Protein, Carbohydrates

Carnivore Diet
> Best against immunological diseases, non-allergenic
> Molluscivore Diet
> Allergenic
> Piscivore Diet
> Allergenic
> Vegan Diet
> Allergenic
> Dairy Diet (cows)
> Allergenic
> https://youtu.be/IfBlM3HfHKs

Protein intake efficiency with least insulin reaction:
Whole eggs half converted to tissue, half fuel
All animal & plant products are much lower

https://youtu.be/jNpwxgfihiA