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littor...@gmail.com
Nov 21, 2022, 6:39:31 AM11/21/22
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Pachyosteosclerosis in Archaic Homo:
Heavy Skulls for Diving, Heavy Legs for Wading?
Stephen Munro cs 2011 pp.82-105 in
Was Man More Aquatic in the Past? Fifty Years After Alister Hardy - Waterside Hypotheses of Human Evolution
Mario Vaneechoutte cs eds
doi 10.2174/978160805244811101010082
Compared to the skeletons of all other primates, incl.H.sapiens, the crania & postcrania of H.erectus were typically massive, displaying extremely thick bones, with compact cortices & narrow medullary canals. Even outside the primate order, examples of animals displaying such massive bones are rare. Although this feature is sometimes seen as diagnostic of H.erectus, few convincing hypotheses have been put forward to explain its functional & adaptive significance.
Here we present data showing that unusually heavy bones were a typical, although not exclusive nor indispensable, characteristic of H.erectus populations through the early-, mid- & late-Pleistocene in areas of Asia, Africa & Europe. A comparative review of the occurrence of massive skeletons in other mammals suggests that they have an important buoyancy control function in shallow-diving (semi)aquatic spp, and are part of a set of adaptations that allow for the more efficient collection of slow, sessile & immobile foods, e.g. aquatic vegetation & hard-shelled invertebrates: part-time shore-line collection of aquatic foods might have been a typical element of the lifestyle of H.erectus populations.
We discuss the alternative explanations for heavy bones from the literature, as well as apparent exceptions to the rule, such as thin-boned H.erectus & thick-boned H.sapiens fossils. A review of the palaeo-ecological data shows: most, if not all, H.erectus fossils & tools are ass.x water-dependent molluscs & large bodies of permanent water. Since fresh- & salt-water habitats have different densities, we hypothesize: in H.erectus & some H.sapiens populations, there might have been a positive correlation between massive bones & dwelling along sea or salt lake shores.
____
IOW, only incredible idiots still believe their Pleistocene ancestors ran after antelopes.
Heavy Skulls for Diving, Heavy Legs for Wading?
Stephen Munro cs 2011 pp.82-105 in
Was Man More Aquatic in the Past? Fifty Years After Alister Hardy - Waterside Hypotheses of Human Evolution
Mario Vaneechoutte cs eds
doi 10.2174/978160805244811101010082
Compared to the skeletons of all other primates, incl.H.sapiens, the crania & postcrania of H.erectus were typically massive, displaying extremely thick bones, with compact cortices & narrow medullary canals. Even outside the primate order, examples of animals displaying such massive bones are rare. Although this feature is sometimes seen as diagnostic of H.erectus, few convincing hypotheses have been put forward to explain its functional & adaptive significance.
Here we present data showing that unusually heavy bones were a typical, although not exclusive nor indispensable, characteristic of H.erectus populations through the early-, mid- & late-Pleistocene in areas of Asia, Africa & Europe. A comparative review of the occurrence of massive skeletons in other mammals suggests that they have an important buoyancy control function in shallow-diving (semi)aquatic spp, and are part of a set of adaptations that allow for the more efficient collection of slow, sessile & immobile foods, e.g. aquatic vegetation & hard-shelled invertebrates: part-time shore-line collection of aquatic foods might have been a typical element of the lifestyle of H.erectus populations.
We discuss the alternative explanations for heavy bones from the literature, as well as apparent exceptions to the rule, such as thin-boned H.erectus & thick-boned H.sapiens fossils. A review of the palaeo-ecological data shows: most, if not all, H.erectus fossils & tools are ass.x water-dependent molluscs & large bodies of permanent water. Since fresh- & salt-water habitats have different densities, we hypothesize: in H.erectus & some H.sapiens populations, there might have been a positive correlation between massive bones & dwelling along sea or salt lake shores.
____
IOW, only incredible idiots still believe their Pleistocene ancestors ran after antelopes.
Pandora
Nov 21, 2022, 9:54:34 AM11/21/22
to
On Mon, 21 Nov 2022 03:39:30 -0800 (PST), "littor...@gmail.com"
<littor...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Pachyosteosclerosis in Archaic Homo:
>Heavy Skulls for Diving, Heavy Legs for Wading?
It's not just the thickness of the bones, it's also the morphology
<littor...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Pachyosteosclerosis in Archaic Homo:
>Heavy Skulls for Diving, Heavy Legs for Wading?
that matters.
Compare these true shallow/slow divers with Homo erectus:
https://ibb.co/27xSTPy
Which of these is the best runner?
JTEM is so reasonable
Nov 21, 2022, 11:20:31 AM11/21/22
to
A more novel approach, one that your so called "Academics" reject,
would be to assume there's this thing called "Evolution," and that
differences in human anatomy might reflect differences in selective
pressures. Thus, comparing different archaic Homo populations to
one another can reveal differences in selective pressures... lifestyles
...environments.
-- --
https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/701137037768753152
would be to assume there's this thing called "Evolution," and that
differences in human anatomy might reflect differences in selective
pressures. Thus, comparing different archaic Homo populations to
one another can reveal differences in selective pressures... lifestyles
...environments.
-- --
https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/701137037768753152
littor...@gmail.com
Nov 21, 2022, 4:04:44 PM11/21/22
to
Op maandag 21 november 2022 om 15:54:34 UTC+1 schreef Pandora:
> >Pachyosteosclerosis in Archaic Homo:
> >Heavy Skulls for Diving, Heavy Legs for Wading?
> It's not just the thickness of the bones, it's also the morphology
> that matters.
> Compare these true shallow/slow divers with Homo erectus:
> https://ibb.co/27xSTPy
> Which of these is the best runner?
My little little boy (you're almost as ridiculous as "DD'eDeN"), try to be honest:
-we say: H.erectus was initially a coastal wader-diver,
-POS = frequent shallow-diving, whether or not they also waded.
The Aquatic Ape Evolves:
Common Misconceptions and Unproven Assumptions about the So-Called Aquatic Ape Hypothesis
Hum.Evol.28: 237-266, 2013
Abstract
While some paleo-anthropologists remain skeptical, data from diverse biological and anthropological disciplines leave little doubt that human ancestors were at some point in our past semi-aquatic: wading, swimming and/or diving in shallow waters in search of waterside or aquatic foods.
However, the exact scenario (how, where & when these semi-aquatic adaptations happened, how profound they were, how they fit into the hominid fossil record) is still disputed, even among anthropologists who assume some semi-aquatic adaptations.
Here I argue that the most intense phase(s) of semi-aquatic adaptation in human ancestry occurred when Homo populations adapted to slow & shallow littoral diving for sessile foods, e.g. shellfish, during part(s) of the Pleistocene, presumably along African or South-Asian coasts.
Conclusions
Many scientific & popular publications on the so-called aquatic ape theory or aquatic ape hypothesis give incorrect impressions of how, when & where our semi-aquatic ancestors could have evolved. This paper provides arguments from diverse biological subdisciplines for the following 3 hypotheses, which to conservative anthropologists might seem unexpected at first sight, but are based on what is known from other animals: the comparative evidence.
(1) The aquarboreal theory of Mio-Pliocene hominoids:
our Mio- & Pliocene more apelike ancestors & relatives, incl. the australopiths, led an aquarboreal life, living in wet forests: flooded, mangrove or swamp forests, and later in more open wetlands, and fed on hard-shelled and other plant & animal foods at the water surface & the waterside & in the trees.
(2) The littoral theory of Pleistocene Homo (AAH s.s.):
early-Pleistocene archaic Homo populations dispersed along the coasts, where they reduced climbing adaptations, but frequently dived, and used stone & other tools for feeding on shallow-water & water-side foods, incl. shellfish.
(3) The wading hypothesis of early H.sapiens:
later in the Pleistocene, Homo populations gradually ventured inland along the rivers, reduced diving skills, and frequently waded with very long & stretched legs & fully upright body, to spot prey in very shallow water, and used complex tools to collect different sorts of aquatic & waterside foods.
Okidoki?
Just be honest!
> >Pachyosteosclerosis in Archaic Homo:
> >Heavy Skulls for Diving, Heavy Legs for Wading?
> It's not just the thickness of the bones, it's also the morphology
> that matters.
> Compare these true shallow/slow divers with Homo erectus:
> https://ibb.co/27xSTPy
> Which of these is the best runner?
-we say: H.erectus was initially a coastal wader-diver,
-POS = frequent shallow-diving, whether or not they also waded.
The Aquatic Ape Evolves:
Common Misconceptions and Unproven Assumptions about the So-Called Aquatic Ape Hypothesis
Hum.Evol.28: 237-266, 2013
Abstract
While some paleo-anthropologists remain skeptical, data from diverse biological and anthropological disciplines leave little doubt that human ancestors were at some point in our past semi-aquatic: wading, swimming and/or diving in shallow waters in search of waterside or aquatic foods.
However, the exact scenario (how, where & when these semi-aquatic adaptations happened, how profound they were, how they fit into the hominid fossil record) is still disputed, even among anthropologists who assume some semi-aquatic adaptations.
Here I argue that the most intense phase(s) of semi-aquatic adaptation in human ancestry occurred when Homo populations adapted to slow & shallow littoral diving for sessile foods, e.g. shellfish, during part(s) of the Pleistocene, presumably along African or South-Asian coasts.
Conclusions
Many scientific & popular publications on the so-called aquatic ape theory or aquatic ape hypothesis give incorrect impressions of how, when & where our semi-aquatic ancestors could have evolved. This paper provides arguments from diverse biological subdisciplines for the following 3 hypotheses, which to conservative anthropologists might seem unexpected at first sight, but are based on what is known from other animals: the comparative evidence.
(1) The aquarboreal theory of Mio-Pliocene hominoids:
our Mio- & Pliocene more apelike ancestors & relatives, incl. the australopiths, led an aquarboreal life, living in wet forests: flooded, mangrove or swamp forests, and later in more open wetlands, and fed on hard-shelled and other plant & animal foods at the water surface & the waterside & in the trees.
(2) The littoral theory of Pleistocene Homo (AAH s.s.):
early-Pleistocene archaic Homo populations dispersed along the coasts, where they reduced climbing adaptations, but frequently dived, and used stone & other tools for feeding on shallow-water & water-side foods, incl. shellfish.
(3) The wading hypothesis of early H.sapiens:
later in the Pleistocene, Homo populations gradually ventured inland along the rivers, reduced diving skills, and frequently waded with very long & stretched legs & fully upright body, to spot prey in very shallow water, and used complex tools to collect different sorts of aquatic & waterside foods.
Okidoki?
Just be honest!
DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves
Nov 21, 2022, 5:47:42 PM11/21/22
to
Ignoring the mermaids & marathoners... Lets see what the professionals say:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41559-020-1240-4
Rib cage anatomy in Homo erectus suggests a recent evolutionary origin of modern human body shape
"Our three-dimensional reconstruction demonstrates a short, mediolaterally wide and anteroposteriorly deep thorax in KNM-WT 15000 that differs considerably from the much shallower thorax of H. sapiens, pointing to a recent evolutionary origin of fully modern human body shape."
This is consistent with a slow upright bipedal walker, while the shallower thorax of H sapiens is consistent with a combined upright bipedal walker-runner with a more derived more efficient respiratory system.
DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves
Nov 21, 2022, 6:07:54 PM11/21/22
to
Kow swamp humans not diving: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OADSuHIjETk "occipitals are of modern aboriginal morphology, bone in the basal part of the fault not thickened, post-crania bones are not as heavy and thick as urban European and Asians due to being agile hunters-gatherers, chin smaller than European AMHs due to larger teeth"
DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves
Nov 21, 2022, 6:24:43 PM11/21/22
to
https://youtu.be/OADSuHIjETk?t=4436
See abstract, African erectus and Dmanisi H georgicus brain organized like ape brain, SEA H erectus more modern-human like.
littor...@gmail.com
Nov 21, 2022, 6:35:01 PM11/21/22
to
kudu runner:
> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41559-020-1240-4
> Rib cage anatomy in Homo erectus suggests a recent evolutionary origin of modern human body shape
> "Our 3D reconstruction demonstrates a short, ML wide & AP deep thorax in KNM-WT 15000 that differs considerably from the much shallower thorax of H. sapiens, pointing to a recent evolutionary origin of fully modern human body shape."
Yes, thanks, He's very large thorax confirms that our evolution from diving to walking was late-Pleistocene:
DNA analyses shows that Hs acquired the enzymes for MC-PUFAs -> LC-PUFAs only c 85 ka:
only after that time we became +-independent from aquatic foods.
> This is consistent with a slow upright bipedal walker
:-DDD
What slow upright walkers does our little kudu runner have in mind?? penguins??
How stupid can one be??
> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41559-020-1240-4
> Rib cage anatomy in Homo erectus suggests a recent evolutionary origin of modern human body shape
Yes, thanks, He's very large thorax confirms that our evolution from diving to walking was late-Pleistocene:
DNA analyses shows that Hs acquired the enzymes for MC-PUFAs -> LC-PUFAs only c 85 ka:
only after that time we became +-independent from aquatic foods.
> This is consistent with a slow upright bipedal walker
What slow upright walkers does our little kudu runner have in mind?? penguins??
How stupid can one be??
DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves
Nov 21, 2022, 8:05:17 PM11/21/22
to
On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 6:35:01 PM UTC-5, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> kudu runner:
MV addresses his strawman.
> > This is consistent with a slow upright bipedal walker
Confirmed, of course.
MV addresses himself
> :-DDD
> What slow upright walkers does our little kudu runner have in mind?? penguins??
> How stupid can one be??
We know the answer.
> kudu runner:
MV addresses his strawman.
> > https://www.nature.com/articles/s41559-020-1240-4
> > Rib cage anatomy in Homo erectus suggests a recent evolutionary origin of modern human body shape
> > "Our 3D reconstruction demonstrates a short, ML wide & AP deep thorax in KNM-WT 15000 that differs considerably from the much shallower thorax of H. sapiens, pointing to a recent evolutionary origin of fully modern human body shape."
>
> Yes, thanks, He's very large thorax confirms that our evolution from diving to walking was late-Pleistocene:
> DNA analyses shows that Hs acquired the enzymes for MC-PUFAs -> LC-PUFAs only c 85 ka:
> only after that time we became +-independent from aquatic foods.
Rainforests are rich in small shallow crystalline streams (eg. 1.5ma Trinil) which have molluscs & crustaceans & fish & antelope.
> > Rib cage anatomy in Homo erectus suggests a recent evolutionary origin of modern human body shape
> > "Our 3D reconstruction demonstrates a short, ML wide & AP deep thorax in KNM-WT 15000 that differs considerably from the much shallower thorax of H. sapiens, pointing to a recent evolutionary origin of fully modern human body shape."
>
> Yes, thanks, He's very large thorax confirms that our evolution from diving to walking was late-Pleistocene:
> DNA analyses shows that Hs acquired the enzymes for MC-PUFAs -> LC-PUFAs only c 85 ka:
> only after that time we became +-independent from aquatic foods.
> > This is consistent with a slow upright bipedal walker
MV addresses himself
> :-DDD
> What slow upright walkers does our little kudu runner have in mind?? penguins??
> How stupid can one be??
littor...@gmail.com
Nov 22, 2022, 1:58:54 AM11/22/22
to
kudu runner:
> MV addresses his strawman.
> > > https://www.nature.com/articles/s41559-020-1240-4
> > > Rib cage anatomy in Homo erectus suggests a recent evolutionary origin of modern human body shape
> > > "Our 3D reconstruction demonstrates a short, ML wide & AP deep thorax in KNM-WT 15000 that differs considerably from the much shallower thorax of H. sapiens, pointing to a recent evolutionary origin of fully modern human body shape."
> > Yes, thanks, He's very large thorax confirms that our evolution from diving to walking was late-Pleistocene:
> > DNA analyses shows that Hs acquired the enzymes for MC-PUFAs -> LC-PUFAs only c 85 ka:
> > only after that time we became +-independent from aquatic foods.
> Rainforests are rich in small shallow crystalline streams (eg. 1.5ma Trinil) which have molluscs & crustaceans & fish & antelope.
Yes, molluscs & crustaceans, hmm, full of LC-PUFAs, necessary for our brain.
> MV addresses his strawman.
> > > https://www.nature.com/articles/s41559-020-1240-4
> > > Rib cage anatomy in Homo erectus suggests a recent evolutionary origin of modern human body shape
> > > "Our 3D reconstruction demonstrates a short, ML wide & AP deep thorax in KNM-WT 15000 that differs considerably from the much shallower thorax of H. sapiens, pointing to a recent evolutionary origin of fully modern human body shape."
> > Yes, thanks, He's very large thorax confirms that our evolution from diving to walking was late-Pleistocene:
> > DNA analyses shows that Hs acquired the enzymes for MC-PUFAs -> LC-PUFAs only c 85 ka:
> > only after that time we became +-independent from aquatic foods.
> Rainforests are rich in small shallow crystalline streams (eg. 1.5ma Trinil) which have molluscs & crustaceans & fish & antelope.
We evolve the ability to make long-chain- from medium-chain-PUFAs c 85 Ka.
> > > This is consistent with a slow upright bipedal walker
> Confirmed, of course.
> MV addresses himself
> > :-DDD
> > What slow upright walkers does our little kudu runner have in mind?? penguins??
> > How stupid can one be??
> We know the answer.
Pandora
Nov 22, 2022, 9:24:47 AM11/22/22
to
On Mon, 21 Nov 2022 08:20:30 -0800 (PST), JTEM is so reasonable
<jte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Pandora wrote:
>
>> Compare these true shallow/slow divers with Homo erectus:
>> https://ibb.co/27xSTPy
>
>A more novel approach, one that your so called "Academics" reject,
An anti-academic attitude is one of the hallmarks of pseudoscience, as
<jte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Pandora wrote:
>
>> Compare these true shallow/slow divers with Homo erectus:
>> https://ibb.co/27xSTPy
>
>A more novel approach, one that your so called "Academics" reject,
is unwavering enthousiasm for fringe theories.
>would be to assume there's this thing called "Evolution," and that
>differences in human anatomy might reflect differences in selective
>pressures. Thus, comparing different archaic Homo populations to
>one another can reveal differences in selective pressures... lifestyles
>...environments.
decades.
DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves
Nov 22, 2022, 11:06:55 AM11/22/22
to
littor...@gmail.com
Nov 23, 2022, 2:06:29 AM11/23/22
to
kudu runner:
> MV ... Can't lose that way.
:-) finally!
> MV ... Can't lose that way.
:-) finally!
DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves
Nov 23, 2022, 1:12:22 PM11/23/22
to
JTEM is so reasonable
Nov 23, 2022, 3:12:33 PM11/23/22
to
Pandora wrote:
> An anti-academic attitude
So people who reject science, scientific methods and even evolution
are "Academics," while those those castigate them for NOT adhering
to science are "Anti-academic."
Hmm.
> unwavering enthousiasm for fringe theories.
Coastal dispersal is mainstream. It's accepted. Lunatics claim that
they were carrying around a savanna on their backs, they weren't
doing things like eating while following that waterline across
continents.
Yeah. When it comes right down to it, you morons are pretending that
"Eating" is a fringe theory. Being on that beach? Nope. That's
mainstream. Following that beach virtually EVERYWHERE it could
take them? Again, mainstream. But they weren't eating and to claim
they were is a "Fringe Theory."
THAT'S how idiotic you savanna wanks are.
If they're on that beach, if they're eating there then they are adapting
(adapted) to that environment. Period. You wankers claim that one
toe on a savanna completely transformed the human body, but that
millions of years of back-and-forth migrations along the coast,
exploiting the sea, could not have changed a goddamn thing.
You honest are nuts.
-- --
https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/701569038790377472
> An anti-academic attitude
So people who reject science, scientific methods and even evolution
are "Academics," while those those castigate them for NOT adhering
to science are "Anti-academic."
Hmm.
> unwavering enthousiasm for fringe theories.
they were carrying around a savanna on their backs, they weren't
doing things like eating while following that waterline across
continents.
Yeah. When it comes right down to it, you morons are pretending that
"Eating" is a fringe theory. Being on that beach? Nope. That's
mainstream. Following that beach virtually EVERYWHERE it could
take them? Again, mainstream. But they weren't eating and to claim
they were is a "Fringe Theory."
THAT'S how idiotic you savanna wanks are.
If they're on that beach, if they're eating there then they are adapting
(adapted) to that environment. Period. You wankers claim that one
toe on a savanna completely transformed the human body, but that
millions of years of back-and-forth migrations along the coast,
exploiting the sea, could not have changed a goddamn thing.
You honest are nuts.
-- --
https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/701569038790377472
littor...@gmail.com
Nov 23, 2022, 4:15:02 PM11/23/22
to
Op woensdag 23 november 2022 om 19:12:22 UTC+1 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:
> > > MV ... Can't lose that way.
> > :-) finally!
> Psychosis!
Yes, yes, my boy, I know you're psychotic...
Leading PAs know there was no savanna where the early australopiths lived, e.g.
-- White 2014: "... despite valiant efforts at its resurrection, the hypothesis that opening grasslands led to hominid emergence & bipedality now stands effectively falsified.”
-- Tobias 1995: “We were all profoundly & unutterably wrong!” ... Open the window, and throw out the savannah hypothesis; it’s dead, and we need a new paradigm ... All the former savannah supporters (incl.myself) must now swallow our earlier words in the light of the new results from the early hominid deposits.”
-- Leakey & Lewontin 1992: “the immense plains & the immense herds on them are rel.recent aspects of the African environment, much more recent than the origin of the human family.”
-- Wood 1996: “The savannah ‘hypothesis’ of human origins, in which the cooling climate begat the savannah, and the savannah begat humanity, is now discredited.”
-- Reed 1997:
-the Pliocene gracile australopithecines “existed in fairly wooded, well-watered regions”,
-the Pleistocene robust australopithecines existed “in similar environs & in more open regions, but always in habitats that include wetlands”.
-- etc.etc.
Only psychotics believe they're running after antelopes... :-)
> > > MV ... Can't lose that way.
> > :-) finally!
> Psychosis!
Leading PAs know there was no savanna where the early australopiths lived, e.g.
-- White 2014: "... despite valiant efforts at its resurrection, the hypothesis that opening grasslands led to hominid emergence & bipedality now stands effectively falsified.”
-- Tobias 1995: “We were all profoundly & unutterably wrong!” ... Open the window, and throw out the savannah hypothesis; it’s dead, and we need a new paradigm ... All the former savannah supporters (incl.myself) must now swallow our earlier words in the light of the new results from the early hominid deposits.”
-- Leakey & Lewontin 1992: “the immense plains & the immense herds on them are rel.recent aspects of the African environment, much more recent than the origin of the human family.”
-- Wood 1996: “The savannah ‘hypothesis’ of human origins, in which the cooling climate begat the savannah, and the savannah begat humanity, is now discredited.”
-- Reed 1997:
-the Pliocene gracile australopithecines “existed in fairly wooded, well-watered regions”,
-the Pleistocene robust australopithecines existed “in similar environs & in more open regions, but always in habitats that include wetlands”.
-- etc.etc.
Only psychotics believe they're running after antelopes... :-)
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